General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe only person who didn't get high in the 60's, from the Mother Earth article the OP article links to as its source.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)I was more interested in all of the other bits.
We. Are. Not. Crazy.
What a great character!
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)It seems he was talking about the sort of story written in 'men's magazines' of the time. In which case, yeah, that's probably the sort of thing that was indeed written in those magazines in the early 70s. They weren't exactly bastions of enlightenment, and I'd imagine all of the people writing those stories were men, with no real idea about what really goes on in women's heads.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)I think even some women don't understand that they all don't come from the same mold.
We use to smoke pot and crack open the latest Penthouse and ..................
She was the one who bought it too.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Who knows, maybe Sanders was actually writing this about some folks he actually knew at the time. It's actually rather disjointed. I don't think he was a very good writer at the time.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)had to overcome.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)But the writing is rather disjointed and awkward, so taken as a whole the article was difficult to read.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)the 1970s. I like it, and I like Bernie.
peecoolyour
(336 posts)Or are they exerting all this effort just for the hell of it?
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)magical thyme
(14,881 posts)It wasn't Sanders' "rape fantasy." It's the kind of shit that was published in "men's" magazines back then, and he was using it as an example.
But...keep trying.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)43 years.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)I don't say a lot about feminism on DU because others cover the topic better than I would.
But Bernie Sanders demonstrated that he was struggling with the changes going on at that time in a very thoughtful way.
Young people today have no idea what we women went through in the 1960s, 1970s and prior to that time.
We all wore hats and white gloves to church on Easter Sunday, but a surprising number of the girls I went to high school with were pregnant and married by the time I graduates. The number of professions and jobs that girls could think about doing was very limited. Few doctors. Lots of nurses. Women were viewed as permanent caretakers.
I did not enter the profession that was fulfilling and right for me until I reached my 50s. I could not think about it because when I was young, very few women entered that profession, and when I was a young mother, I could not take the time away from my children and earning a living to enter it. Women born just 4-6 years after I was had many, many more opportunities professionally than I did.
The view of women was just as Bernie Sanders described it. We were the "weaker sex," accused of changing our minds a lot . . . . The list of our deficiencies according to the common belief at that time goes on and on. We were a joke. Lucy of I Love Lucy and Gracie Allen were what people thought of when they thought of "girls" or women.
We women went through quite a struggle, and that struggle continues to this day.
Bernie demonstrated a lot of understanding and insight, and i must say, patience in that article. And he was fairly young at the time.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)to do - find someone to marry and "take care of us for the rest of our life". That was not the goal of the guys for the most part. And remember we did not have the benefit of the pill.
What most of us learned on the way to the future was that "taking care of us the rest of our lives" was real lie an empty promise. Most of us found ourselves alone and supporting two or three children with no education and only a limited option of the type of jobs we could get. Not until LBJ's war on poverty did we get a chance to get more education.
That may very well be why right next to out support for women's issues is the economic issues Bernie talks about.
Prism
(5,815 posts)Basically illustrating the kind of material the male smut magazines were peddling.
They weren't his personal thoughts on women's sexuality. The article actually tackles the challenges women were facing at the time in a nascent liberation movement.
Should be interesting though. Not two days ago, before the racial blow up, I said some people wanted to call Sander's a racist and sexist so bad they could taste it. We have now had the former. I suspect this article will give fuel to the latter.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)the same ones who claim the article posted on DU from that nutjob blogger implying Bernie is racist (with accompanying disgusting photos to hit home the racist charge) was "mild criticism".
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)the sexual revolution, the liberation of women and the confusion that a couple goes through as they question and reject the traditional male/female roles.
Here is some of what Bernie wrote.
. . . .
Women, for their own preservation, are trying to pull themselves together. And it's necessary for all of humanity that they do so. Slavishness on one hand breeds pigness on the other hand. Pigness on one hand breeds slavishness on the other. Men and women both are losers. Women adapt themselves to fill the needs of men, and men adapt themselves to fill the needs of women. In the beginning there were strong men who killed the animals and brought home the food and the dependent women who cooked it. No More! Only the roles remain waiting to be shaken off. There are no "human" oppressors. Oppressors have lost their humanity. On one hand "slavishness," on the other hand "pigness." Six of one, half dozen of the other. Who wins?
Many women seem to be walking a tightrope now. Their qualities of love, openness, and gentleness were too deeply enmeshed with qualities of dependency, subservience, and masochism. How do you love without being dependent? How do you be gentle without being subservient? How do you maintain a relationship without giving up your identity and without getting strung out? How do you reach out and give your heart to your lover, but maintain the soul which is you?
And Men. Men are in pain too. They are thinking, wondering. What is it they want from a woman? Are they at fault? Are they perpetrating this man-woman situation? Are they oppressors?
And she said, "You wanted me not as a woman, or a lover, or a friend, but as a submissive woman, or submissive friend, or submissive lover; and right now where my head is I balk at even the slightest suspicion of that kind of demand."
. . . .
http://www.vox.com/2015/5/28/8682503/bernie-sanders-rape-fantasy
Why are women paid less than men for the same work? Why is it mostly women who take time off from work to care for the children and then end up hustling to try to get a job after the children are grown? Why do female seniors have so much less money than male seniors in America in general? Why do we have so much divorce? Why do women and men still have so much trouble dealing with the old-fashioned gender roles?
Bernie showed in this article that he understood the importance of women's liberation and also the tremendous resistance to it on all sides.
IF you just look at the copy of the original reproduced in VOX, you need to use a magnifying glass. Bernie is a person who asks difficult questions. He is not a conformist. He is a wonderful, human, loving person. I'm proud, as a woman, to be a Bernie supporter. Thanks for linking to this article.
From one who lived through the 70s as an already (and still) married woman, who attended women's liberation meetings in that time. I like the article. It reflects the issues that men and women were dealing with then and are still dealing with now.
Pornography is even more popular now than it was then, and maybe more violent. I don't know if it is more violent because I'm not interested in it. The magazines are everywhere and the ads on the internet are ubiquitous. Bernie brings a sane view to the issue in my opinion.
I have to add that I have grown daughters and nieces. These issues of sexual roles are still very difficult today. Career or family? Equal partners or submissive woman? The issues Bernie dealt with in that article are very much on our minds in this primary.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)sufrommich
(22,871 posts)much an exercise in clickbait. It looks like Sanders was trying to understand the fairly new feminist movement's effect on couples. Good for him.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)I personally couldn't care less about this essay, whatever it meant, and think Bernie is great. But as he enters the Hillary world -- where every little non-issue gets scrutinized over and over -- this is the kind of stuff people end up talking about.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)Otherwise, there wouldn't have been any swiftboats or Willie Hortons, etc.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)The stuff that gets tossed at Hillary is more Willie Horton.
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)I'm in Hillary's corner, but this is just a strange thing to post.
To me, it shows he was quite thoughtful about the issues between men and women.