When was the last time someone convinced you you were wrong about a political issue?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

As far as I can see, political discussion on the internet largely consists of people talking past each other.

When was the last time someone convinced you you were wrong about something, or even made you doubt?

In particular, when was the last time someone further right/less far left than you consider yourself to be did - or are we just locked in rival echo chambers with a spiral to the outsides?

[pipoman]

1. I think people's minds are changed all the time about politics

What doesn't change as often is people's core...conservative/liberal...about half of the population identifies with each..always have and always will..

[merrily]

2. I have gotten insights from people, but I have not changed from a populist to a corporatist.

However, is changing who I am the purpose of a message board anyway? I've gotten information and support. I hope I've given both to others as well. I've gotten different ways of looking at some things. I am able to express myself and gauge the reactions of others to what I say and how I've said it. I've been chastened and discouraged and I've been emboldened. and encouraged. So many things. However, if the goal is to change who I am, no, it's probably not going to happen.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

9. Not "who you are" or even "your general philosophy".

What I'm asking is "has anyone ever changed your mind about anything?"

[merrily]

10. Yes, and also, perhaps more importantly, given me a new way of looking at something or things

in general.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

13. Sure.

In fact, I used to be one of those clueless types who didn't believe 'white privilege' existed, because I lived in my own insular little world and didn't actually spend any real time talking to PoC and went to a public school system that taught squat about what's really going on out there. Now admittedly, that changed maybe a decade back, but my mind did change, as my ignorance was replaced with knowledge.

But isn't that how any of us change our minds? By having new knowledge presented to us?

What you seem to be thinking about is mainly people just popping opinions back and forth. And of course that's not nearly as effective at changing anyone's mind. Actual facts, presented in an understandable way (not a giant wall of text, but something in a comprehensive narrative) is the way to actually change people's thinking.

[marym625]

3. yesterday

Though there are few that are left of me on interwebz.

[seabeyond]

4. often. i am adamant with a couple issues. a lot of issues i have to listen to a lot of people

get informed, process information and then listen some more to what other stories are being told, before deciding.

i am often swayed.

i am in the process now. doing a lot of listening, learning.

[delrem]

5. My mind has never changed black to white, positive to negative, like some switch.

What I think today is a continuation of what I thought yesterday, and that's a product of some discipline mixed with a prodigious output of laxity.
What is more likely to happen is that I'll go into a discussion expecting one thing, and getting another, which propels me think things anew.

[Recursion]

6. Both in person and online, or just online?

I've been persuaded in person before.

[LWolf]

7. Nobody has ever changed my mind.

Politically, I don't think I've changed my mind about anything. I've sometimes changed focus, changed strategy, or changed my mind about how a piece fits into the overall issue. I've remained left-of-center and all about the issues, and I haven't changed my mind about issues.

Some people have added dimensions to my thinking, which helps me evolve. Those are people who directly address the issues that concern me in a positive way.



I see what you are talking about all the time, of course.

[quickesst]

8. well said and correct...

Democratic Underground is a small world in a much larger one when it comes to elections. It's like the Olympics where every four years everyone chooses their "country" to represent. The competition is sometimes fierce, but has little or no bearing on who is awarded the gold medal. The big world out there will do the deciding. My opinion.

[RiverLover]

11. 2009. When a lady starting a small local bank in rural GA told me casually that it was Bill Clinton

who repealed Glass-Steagall allowing the big banks to deregulate & take over & ultimately crash the economy.

I was so shocked by that. You know how everyone always remembers where they were when they learned something horrible, like an assassination or 9/11? I remember vividly the moment she said that. The entire conversation is etched in my mind forever. I knew she knew what she was talking about, but I couldn't believe it. I went home, got online & started researching. My low-information but very strong belief that Bill Clinton had been a great president for US changed. I learned he may have presided over a very good economic time for us, but ultimately set up MANY MANY policies that have led to MANY of our problems today.

Not just ending Glass-Steagall, NAFTA, & bringing China into the WTO...

So yes, my beliefs have been changed before. And now more than ever, I know the importance of Democrats being Democrats once elected, not just when running for office.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

15. That's a good point - politicians often change my mind about them by doing something horrific

that alters the somewhat rosier opinion I held of them prior to that act. Like promising hope and change, so that I donate, vote, canvass for them, then treating us to more of the same plutocrat-oriented government with a few meaningless cosmetic changes to the tax code that still leave even more of the country's wealth flowing upward.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. Never

I have the same group of heros that I had when I was fourteen; the martyred Kennedy brothers, Dr. King, and Muhammad Ali.

[treestar]

14. No one person

I have changed opinions, but over time, so the credit would go probably to several people. That's why people should not get upset and frustrated. No one should expect to change someone's mind right away. But you could end up as part of it.

[gwheezie]

16. I changed my mind about the death penalty

Information and discussion on line led me to change my mind.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

27. Yup, that was one of the places I changed too.

I have become consistently more liberal the longer I've been online. Punish less, re-engage more. Don't banish people from society, get them more invested in a society that works for everyone.

[DanTex]

17. For me, changing my views doesn't come from a single "silver bullet" argument from a single

person. Instead, it's the sum total of discussing and reading different points of view.

Some examples. I used to be more anti-free-trade-agreement than I am now. This came from reading a number of sources I respect, but if I had to name one person, it would be Paul Krugman, who convincingly points out that free trade agreements generally affect less of the economy than people think they do, and that both sides exaggerate the benefits and harms.

Another issue where my views have evolved is race, and DU played a role here. I probably used to lean a bit towards the "economic issues are more important than social issues camp" that seems pretty popular here. But, as a white person with mostly white friends, I don't get exposed to the same diversity of views as on DU, and reading what black people have to say, both in GD and AA, has opened my eyes to points of view that they probably should have been opened to before but weren't.

I think there's something very positive about the message board format (despite all the fighting) that you don't get just from reading editorial columns. Even though rarely does one person "win" an argument and directly convince another of their point of view, over time the back-and-forth can be enlightening.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

29. I keep hearing about that 'camp'.

But I think I've seen maybe one or two 'campers' the entire time I've been here. Most everybody I've seen says they're both important, and intertwined. That you have to have all forms of justice, and should vote for candidates who are good on all forms. Not just choose one form and declare the other doesn't matter, or 'matters less'.

[DanTex]

30. Do 35 recs qualify as a "camp"?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026737942

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

32. I see 35 recs, what I don't see is anyone claiming social justice is 'less important' than economic

justice.

I do see a claim that neoliberals are using a twisted form of social 'justice' in which the object is not to bring justice to all minorities, but simply to raise a percentage of minorities into the ruling capitalist class so they can provide cover for capitalism and keep the oppressed from rebelling.

That's not what I think of when I think of 'social justice'. YMMV.

[DanTex]

34. Right. Now you might want to read the thread in the AA group about that OP.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/118714812

As you can see, there are some vastly different opinions about that particular argument than yours. And for some reason (what might it be), women and minorities seem to take more of an issue with it that white men. And this is very far from the first time this has happened. It's actually a very common recurring pattern.

Which gets back to the original question of the OP: what has changed your mind about an issue. And my answer was, reading points of view from people different from myself.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

36. I read that one too

but I don't really see anyone talking about how they define it.

When I think social justice, I think things like protecting voting rights and making it simple for anyone and everyone to vote. Tearing down racial institutions like the 'justice' system, and replacing them with ones that aren't designed and operated so as to marginalize and criminalize people of colour. Protecting people from the state, from their fellow bigoted citizens, from unexpected hardships, from hardships derived from centuries of marginalization and oppression. Equality of education, of living spaces, of not always being crammed into the areas with higher pollution. Of treating every human equally, and not seeking ways to create groups of people who are treated worse than anyone else.

I don't see the OP saying none of these things matter. I see it saying wealthy neoliberal capitalists are using a veneer of social justice to pretend to be more 'just' but still to hold tightly to what matters to them personally - their wealth.

It's not an attack on actual social justice, or on the people in the trenches fighting day in and day out for same. It's trying to expose how some people are willing to try and deflect anyone from taking away what THEY care most about. Money.

I'm sure there are some filthy rich folks out there who really do honestly believe in social justice. But I believe there are also those who don't, but are more than happy to talk the talk so that they can hold on to power and wealth.

[DanTex]

37. Well, I guess we see different thing in that article.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

38. Could be. At any rate, I'm headed out.

Lightning seems to be getting closer, that last strike was darn loud.

[99Forever]

18. And so? What?

What's your point?

Don't state our view?

Just let nonsense and lies stand?

No thanks.

[MohRokTah]

19. Grover Norquist altered my opinion only a few days ago.

His argument in support of the TPP has put me into the camp opposed to the TPP.

[RiverLover]

21. Welcome, MoRahTah, to the anti-TPP side!!

Unfortunately, I think that just means you'll just be immensely disappointed & disheartened when the travesty passes & gets signed, along with the rest of us on the side of People & Planet over Profits...

[m-lekktor]

26. lol. that could do it! nt

[procon]

20. I've changed, not because of any individual, but just by

trying to be better informed. That knowledge led me to some profound discoveries of my own prejudices, and there have been some instances of startling serendipity as a result. I've moved steadily left, from a passive Democrat, to liberal, to socialist as my views on equality, immigration, money and society evolved.

[Fumesucker]

22. DU convinced me I was wrong about a lot of Democrats

[DisgustipatedinCA]

24. Damn right. nt

[rock]

23. Within the last week of so

Talk good sense to me and I'll listen. Talk trash and I'll laugh at you. (I try to hold it down, but it's hard to).

[DonCoquixote]

25. admittedly

I was originally for the idea of civil unions, something that would exist along with marriage, but frankly, the conduct of the christens showed me that what the LGBT was saying about that issue was true, it needed the M word to have meaning.

[applegrove]

28. I'm wrong a lot because I do a wide scope and empathize with

many points of views. That is just how I roll.

[WDIM]

31. Obama proves me wrong all the time.

That I shouldnt of voted for him. But of course there was no other choice. Its to bad he has been such a dissapointing president.

When he supported the bank bailouts that was my first clue and he continues to disappoint.

[onecaliberal]

33. I'm not conservative and never will be so none of them will ever change my mind.

As far as left, it happens a lot.

[dhol82]

35. Remember I was totally non political in 2000

Air America started and I started listening. That was my awakening. Heard the truth I had always believed and was appalled that the rest of the country didn't think that way.

Have been a crazy ass liberal since then.

[PowerToThePeople]

40. Air america was great!

That is also where I first heard of DemocraticUnderground.

[dhol82]

44. It was a total eye opener

People who did not know me before are amazed that Air America was the changing force in my development.

Still remember Randi Rhodes repeatedly saying 'don't trust me or anything I say, do your research and prove it to yourself.' Still remember the homework she would give on the weekends to expand your mind and knowledge.

Remember Rachel who was on from 9-12 who was dismissed by so many and was so brilliant even then.

It was an amazing time. So sad that it went down the toilet for lack of funds.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

39. Folks have core beliefs that are pretty unshakeable and look for information that confirms it./NT

[neverforget]

41. There have been a few issues (don't recall which ones at the moment) that someone here

gave me a different perspective or information and I changed my mind. I wish I could recall which ones they were......

[Skittles]

42. no one has convinced me I am wrong on an issue

I have, however, changed minds regarding same sex marriage and trickle-down bullshit

[Luminous Animal]

43. I hope to be constantly evolving through listening and discussion.

I do read through a person's post and click on their link to read through the entire article before making a comment. Sometimes, I'll do further research beyond the article if the topic grabs my attention before making a comment.

I know I have many set core moral beliefs that I developed at a young age (someone one supposed that, as a child, I was akin to Huey Freeman from the Boondocks when I was a child. And that person was pretty much right). But, at age 57, there is not one argument that would sway me to the right… especially the U.S. right but I am open to being swayed more to the left.

Bowling for Columbine did change my view on guns. (And the ensuing discussion on Moore's old BB). Much was made that the movie was an anti-gun screed. It wasn't. It was a 'screed' against U.S. violent culture.

Currently, my 25 year old daughter and I are arguing about the use of the terms 'bitch' and 'bitches' which is bandied about amongst her friends in a lighthearted way. I am not ready to give up my old school feminist stand because, without a doubt, Hillary Clinton is going to be called a bitch all over the internet. And even though I am not a Hillary supporter, I will fight against that misogynist attack.

But then again, when I am on my death bed at age 103, I may flip everyone off and say, "Good-bye, bitches."