In case you missed it in his speech: O'Malley took the gloves off and hit Hillary where it hurts

[bigtree]

from Martin O'Malley's presidential announcement address:

“Recently the C.E.O. of Goldman Sachs let his employees know that he’d be just fine with either Bush or Clinton,”

“I bet he would!”

“Well, I’ve got news for the bullies of Wall Street,” Mr. O’Malley added as the crowd cheered. “The presidency is not a crown to be passed back and forth, by you, between two royal families. It is a sacred trust to be earned from the American people and exercised on behalf of the people of these United States.”

[DemocratSinceBirth]

1. He should have left the gloves on lest he end up like the poor fella rolling around on the canvass.

[RufusTFirefly]

6. Way to address the substance of the issue!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. Iron Mike addressed Trevor Berbick's issues within six or so minutes.

It might take St. Hillary a lil bit longer.

[Scootaloo]

155. "St. Hillary"?

[Logical]

7. LOL, I am not sure any of your posts are really helping Hillary. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. LOL, If i thought my advocacy For St. Hillary here is of any moment I would put a cap im my own ear.

[bigtree]

10. he's not going to pull any punches in this primary

...and Hillary better keep her guard up returning those blows.


Ezra Klein @ezraklein

Hillary Clinton's top donors are banks.

Bernie Sanders' top donors are unions.

http://bit.ly/1IvkHe9




Campaign Finance Data for Martin O'Malley

$22,497,149 Received
...federal data covers from 1989 roughly through Q2 2014
state-level data is not available in bulk for 2014. for current state data, browse http://followthemoney.org/

Top Industries

OpenSecrets.org and FollowTheMoney.org classify contribution data into about 100 industries.

Real Estate $1,624,303
Lawyers/Law Firms $1,007,988
Securities & Investment $391,596
Business Services $390,912
General Contractors $345,526
Hospitals/Nursing Homes $298,950
Building Trade Unions $293,855
Construction Services $266,940
Health Professionals $261,186
Public Sector Unions $209,940

Individuals($14.1M)
PACs($8.3M)
Unknown($88.6K)

Top Contributors

Includes contributions from an organization’s employees, their family members and its political action committee.

BlankCarpenters & Joiners Union- $52,500
American Fedn of St/Cnty/Munic Employees Union -$49,700
Peter D Hart Research Assoc- $49,000
International Assn of Fire Fighters- $42,800
Service Employees International Union- $40,589
United Food & Commercial Workers Union- $40,250
Media Strategies & Research- $30,950
David S Brown Enterprises- $30,500
National Education Assn- $29,600

View all campaign finance data for Martin O'Malley

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. Bookmark this post.

He has as much chance of beating Hillary as I do of beating Iron Mike.

[cali]

23. oh never underestimate her talent at being her own

worst enemy.

[JonLP24]

173. Exactly

That seems to be the very thing the "sure thing electability" types seem to be missing.

Her negatives are up -- this isn't good for her

Pollster Trend

Unfavorable 47.8%
Favorable 45.9%


http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/hillary-clinton-favorable-rating

[Logical]

39. Hillary lost a 30 point lead in 2008! Don't sell her short! nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

42. Did they repeal the 22nd Amendment? /NT

[Logical]

48. OK, you are blaming Obama for her loss. Not her weak support. I see where you are confused. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

53. She received nearly 50% of primary votes against a political phenom.

It goes back to my seminal post that was the cause of so much agita. Iron Mike took Trevor Berbick apart. He had much more of difficult go of it with Buster Douglas, Evander Holyfield, and Lennox Lewis...

It's all about the competition...

[A Simple Game]

60. Wait, from what I read back in '08 and again lately I thought Hillary was the phenom.

That's what everyone said back then and that's what everyone is saying now. This is all getting so confusing. I thought back in '08 she lost an insurmountable lead to a little known first term Senator. Am I in one of those alternate universes?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

69. The little known first term senator

The little known first term senator was Hollywood handsome, charismatic, had a great life story that captured the zeitgeist, was given the blessing to run by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and was chosen to give the keynote speech at the 2004 Democratic National Convention, a slot that is reserved for the party's rising stars, a speech that met with universal acclaim:

[A Simple Game]

96. And was given a snowball's chance in hell against the Juggernaut that was Hillary.

Sounds like you don't give Hillary's resume much credit.

I was a Hillary supporter back in '08 because I saw through Senator Obama's talk and could see his real values. Hillary was the best option for me at the time only because the candidate I wanted didn't run. Since then her negatives have only increased. She fails on the economy and foreign affairs. As for social issues, if push came to shove I wouldn't be surprised if she sold us out because it suited her economic goals.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

98. A lot of pundits identified Barack Obama as a rising star.

As to rest we just have to agree to disagree...

[A Simple Game]

101. And I have to agree with your header, he was considered a rising star.

But Hillary was already a star. One of Hillary's problems with the media was she wasn't considered very friendly towards them, I will admit that may not be as big a problem against Bernie.

As the saying goes, they all wanted to have a beer with Obama, nobody wanted to have a drink with Hillary.

[rock]

100. And he was Black

Obviously a strong draw. Many people (Black and White) apparently voted for him because he was Black, overriding his lack of experience. What Liberal wouldn't want to vote for the first Black president? I voted for him myself in the general election (not because he was Black which didn't matter to me, but because he was the Democrat candidate). Admittedly a lot of people may have voted for Hillary because they thought she would be the first female president (which of course may still happen).

[DemocratSinceBirth]

105. Once he won IA and demonstrated his crossover appeal...

Once he won IA and demonstrated his crossover appeal he won away a large part of what was supposed to be Hillary's base and that was African Americans...

HRC has a favorable rating of 87% among African Americans who represent 20% of our party's primary voters.


I will leave it to others to do the math.

[JI7]

127. if that was the case Sharpton would have done a bit better than he did

[rock]

129. Black AND Handsome

AND I might add very personable. I didn't mean just Black!

[JI7]

133. i would say his personality and amazing political talent , but yes, there was excitement

about having first black president or first female president. sorry, i misread what you were saying as there were many others who dismiss the victory as just being about race. but i see you were not doing that.

[Cha]

159. You're giving President Obama way too little credit.

[rock]

166. How so Cha?

He wasn't particularly well known by the majority of voters. He was (and is) a GREAT orator. I really thought I gave him a fair shake. Where should I have given him credit that I did not?

[Cha]

169. He and his team were smart in their primary campaign.. they knew the rules.. eyes on the prize and

forged again.

I think his time as Community Organizer on the South Side of Chicago helped immensely.. He was a very good leader for his Team. But, of course it didn't hurt that he's caring and personable. And, yes.. easy to look at and a great speaker at his rallies.

He didn't have much AA support until after he won Iowa I understand.. I started supporting him right before Iowa.. when I went into work the next day.. I said "Obama won Iowa!"

[rock]

171. Well now, you got me there

I simply couldn't cover all the good things about Obama! I happily cede to all your points. To summarize: Obama knew how campaign with the best of them.

[Cha]

172. Mahalo, rock.. and when he won he chose Hillary for SOS..

[geek tragedy]

72. The term is 'crediting Obama' and O'Malley

is not Obama. Great positions, good guy, but not a transcendent political talent.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

75. Why do people ignore that fact?

The first African American to become POTUS was going to have to be anything but ordinary.

[Ghost in the Machine]

92. You're already breaking one rule of winning...

He has as much chance of beating Hillary as I do of beating Iron Mike.

Never sell yourself short or underestimate your own strength, will and determination. It's always better to not underestimate your opponent, which you didn't in this case, but don't overestimate them either! Don't let the hype get to you. Iron Mike had 50 wins in his career, 44 by K.O., but also had 6 losses, which shows he could be beat. You just have to keep your wits about you, no matter how hard you just got your bell rung, and outsmart your opponent. Hilary just got her bell rung, let's see how she handles it.

Peace,

Ghost

[DemocratSinceBirth]

97. I addressed your point in Post 53....

That being said I can only see the world though the prism I have... I come here, see Hillary constantly being beat up, consequently take umbrage , my darker angels take over, and I respond accordingly.

Peace,
DSB

[U4ikLefty]

142. Do you offer to meet them on the Metro?

I hear you are an expert in Los Angeles' minority populations. Is that right?

[zeemike]

111. I don't think he is meant to beat Hillary.

He is meant to beat Sanders, the only credible challenge to her.

But you can bet he will get lots of air time and contributions to his super pac.
And we are supposed to be excited and thrilled he is attacking her instead of saying what he would do as president...Jump on that band wagon...they play us like fools, and perhaps we are.

[Joe the Revelator]

149. I have a feeling, knowning your posting history, you made a similar 'call'...

in 2008. What fun this will be!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

150. You would be sorely mistaken. I had more respect for Barack Obama.

I might not pick the Cleveland Cavaliers to win the Finals that start this week...I would pick them if they were playing the Sacramento Kings...


lol@Huntsman's late surge:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/100214949

[Laser102]

165. Amen. Hillary 2016

[Duppers]

73. Would be nice if you'd post this as an OP

Would get more exposure.

Thanks, bigtree.

[bigtree]

77. here it is

Hillary vs. Bernie >--- Top Donors

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026610057

[Duppers]

80. Thank you!

[olegramps]

93. When I consider the national polls this board appears to be irrelevant.

I am very committed to progressive government, higher taxes on the wealthy, single payer, etc. I consider Sanders to a respectful candidate for the party's nomination, but I also give the same respect to Hilary Clinton and any other Democrat who wants to seek the nomination. What I fear that the many on this board are so biased against Clinton that they will attempt to sabotage her run for president if she is the party's nominee and even sit out the election giving the Republicans a victory. This would be a Pyrrhic victory that will end up disastrously for the working class that is in desperate need for a champion. I believe that the rhetoric is over blown and dangerous.

[erronis]

99. ^^^ concise and accurate description.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

102. All I can tell you is that DU is not a proxy for the nation.

All I can tell you is that DU is not a proxy for the nation. It is not even remotely close. That's not a normative observation. It's an empirical one.

On one hand you have the eye test. To me the eye test is just stuff you see and then you have the world of data like polls and what not. To me, the eye test confirms what the data shows (polls). Most of my friends who are almost all but not universally Democrats are comfortable with Ms. Clinton, just as the polls of the larger universe of Democratic voters suggest.

PEACE
DSB

P.S. You will never catch me deliberately denigrating a Democrat candidate.

Oh, I just used a boxing clip because a boxing metaphor (taking the gloves off) was used against Ms. Clinton.

[calimary]

156. Indeed - we need our own version of the "Eleventh Commandment."

reagan always talked about that. But it made sense. And we should take note, too. reagan's was "Thou Shalt Not Speak Ill of Another republi-CON." OURS should be "Thou Shalt Not Speak Ill of Another Democrat."

Another thing I find irritating here is - the mention of "TWO royal families" - um.. let's see, are we talking the Clintons and the Clintons here? This wasn't JUST a diss at Hillary, people. It was a diss at the bushes, too. We should not be making it as though it was exclusively a diss of Hillary.

[Scootaloo]

158. This is not a very good argument

Clinton's polling numbers are, in large part because of an eight-year media campaign without any competition. She's been on the campaign trail - whether she wanted to be or not - since she was appointed Secretary of State. Her high numbers are a product of her spending the greater part of a decade as the "presumptive nominee."

But now there's campaigning to do, and at least two challengers to that presumption. And it's just begun, with the first primary election being over six months away, and the convention more than a year.

Hillary's poll numbers are going to drop, and they're going to drop significantly. Why? Because that's what competition does. I can't say where they'll drop to, or if someone will pull ahead of her, but if you think Clinton is going to rocket past the finish line with 70% or something, you're crazier than people who write-in Perot.

And you can't have it both ways. You can't call DU'ers "irrelevant" and then argue that we're going to "cost the election." I know you're just warming up your engines for some left-bashing for if Clinton fails the General, but at least have internally-consistent logic going.

[olegramps]

175. I am emchanted to be the recipent of such superior logic.

Who said that she was going to "rocket past the finish line with 70%'? I stated a fact that today her poll numbers are well ahead of any challenger. A fact that appears to be ignored by many on this board. If you think that Sanders is immune to criticism they you are in for a shock. The Denver Post Editorial Page published a scathing OP on a article that was written by Sanders in 1970. I will not repeat it providing a person with superior intellect the opportunity research it.

[Maedhros]

177. ...and he stated that those numbers are subject to change.

Not an outlandish or irrelevant observation. Are you just spoiling for a fight? Scootaloo's post was civil and not deserving of a backhanded response.

[Maedhros]

176. Please do not confuse "working to defeat Hillary in the primary"

with "sabotaging her run for President."

And I've seen no posters threatening to sit out the election. Any who might have done so are negligible outliers.

[olegramps]

179. You haven't seen any posts saying that they would sit out the election?

Well, I can assure you that I have read several posts saying that if she is nominated they will not vote. These disturb me since our nation cannot endure having the Republicans in charge.

Let's set the record straight. I enthusiastically welcome Sanders into the debates. He has been a powerful voice for the working class throughout his career. However, the fervor of those supporting Sanders has in many cases been not limited to supporting him but coupled with what I consider over-the-top attacks on Clinton. Corporations are not in themselves evil, they become evil when they haven't been properly controlled. I am going to wait and see what her positions are in regard to the trade deals, Keystone, banking, income taxes, etc. I have a major concern that if Sanders fails to get the nomination will Democrats and Independents and especially youth support her.

[Maedhros]

181. Will not vote PERIOD, or will not vote for Hillary?

I think I've seen one poster who said he wouldn't vote at all.

As for myself, I will definitely vote if Bernie is not the nominee. I just won't vote for Hillary, because I imagine there will be other candidates that better represent my positions.

[olegramps]

182. You might as well say that you are not voting.

Let's assume for the sake of argument that it comes down to Hilary against someone who is polling 10% of the vote. A significant number of votes for that candidate could result in Clinton's defeat. This is what happen to us in Florida and we lost the presidency and ended up with a puppet president who let us be drawn into a drastic war. This scenario could be repeated if the neo-cons are elected.

[Maedhros]

183. I will not be bullied into surrending my vote to a candidate I don't believe in.[n/t]

[olegramps]

184. You are going to really know about bullied if a Republican President is elected.

Get ready to send the kids off to another war for oil. I could not allow myself to imagine that I could allow another Republican to be elected. It is basically immoral to even contemplate being an accessory to an evil eventuality.

[Maedhros]

185. The protection-racket approach to campaigning just doesn't do it for me.

Want my vote, Democratic candidate? Then earn it.

I will not be coerced.

[cheapdate]

188. The Romans had a phrase for this :

"Fiat justitia ruat caelum" meaning "Let justice be done though the heavens fall". It's a tough principle.

[FSogol]

2. K&R. n/t

[VanillaRhapsody]

3. this Martin O'Malley?

who is to the right of Barack Obama?



who is also to the Right of Hillary Clinton

[Autumn]

5. Looky there. Charts

[NYC_SKP]

13. I don't get it, they all look the same to me.

And the source, the decider of these charts, is a sell-out hack.

The site cherry picks information, Clinton's page is groomed while others are not.

Still, I use it for some information, like finding out that Sanders scores are higher from:

The ACLU, Human Rights Commission, and the NAACP.

[Buzz Clik]

17. I've noticed that Sanders's fans don't like being challenged on the notion...

... that he is all alone as the progressive running for the Dem nomination.

Perhaps it's time to retreat to the safety of the Bernie Sanders DU group. No dissension allowed.

[cali]

26. nah, I see o'malley as a progressive

I've been telling people here for years how moronic those charts are.

[Buzz Clik]

36. Your insights have been noted for years.

[A Simple Game]

67. Never mind those stupid charts, I'll get to the bottom of this as soon as I get back from the attic.

Now where are my Magic 8 Ball and Ouija board?

[NYC_SKP]

32. I'm a host there but all of my awesome Hillary Smack Downs are posted in GD.

And in my signature line!

[Buzz Clik]

34. Yeah, and you ban everyone who steps into the hallowed ground.

[NYC_SKP]

51. I haven't blocked anyone. And, TBH, I don't support some of the blocks.

We are working on this, but the website doesn't provide a way to discuss actions and some are more trigger happy than others.

I prefer warnings, followed by a one-week or 30-day block, not a permanent block.

[Buzz Clik]

63. You and I have never crossed swords before, NYC_SKP, but I will tell you...

... I am not fond of the company you keep. That's not your fault, but ... damn.

[cherokeeprogressive]

84. This post would have been better used as retraction and apology for your post #34.

[Buzz Clik]

85. That will happen when hell freezes over.

Thought you'd like to know. But thanks for interjecting -- it's always welcome.

[cherokeeprogressive]

91. "Yeah, and you ban everyone who steps into the hallowed ground."

Post bullshit then totally own it. I like that.
Props.

[Buzz Clik]

117. I post an opinion, you call it bullshit and demand an apology? Yeah, there's a fantasy for you.

As I said -- when hell freezes over. And, if it isn't clear by now, I am not looking for your approval.

[cherokeeprogressive]

123. "you ban eeveryone" ain't an opinion; it's a claim.

[Buzz Clik]

124. For the love of God

That's what this is about? A little hyperbole?

You're wasting my time. Have the last word and don't bother me anymore.

[sabrina 1]

40. I like O'Malley and so far he is my second choice. Far as I can see, a vast majority of DUers

support Bernie so why would his supporters 'retreat' anywhere? Same thing on all Liberal Forums, Bernie is the clear favorite.

I don't intend to attack any candidate, but I will point out their records since it is BASED on those records that I made the decision to support Sanders.

I like O'Malley on the issues also and am impressed with his ability to speak clearly about where he stands.

Bernie has never sought out 'safety' nor will his supporters.

It is his courage to stand up for issues when others were hesitant to do so.

Such as Gay Marriage which he championed 20 years ago at a time when even Dems were afraid or simply didn't agree with it, to do so.



I know he is happy about some of the progress made on the issues HE has fought for all of his life.

Don't expect either Bernie or his supporters to 'hide' anywhere. Silly comment actually.

[NYC_SKP]

50. I love that picture! And, yes, we aren't ashamed of our choices.

It's pretty odd behavior, but I don't want to dwell on it except to say that such behavior is suggestive of individuals who feel stuck with a choice that they've made and cannot defend.

It's only natural that they'd want a safe place to be.

My favorite, though sad, excuse I read from people who clearly don't like her is that it's about the SCOTUS.

I know you've seen this.

Well, I don't really believe that Hillary will change one bit and I can't count on her to put the people ahead of the banks when it comes to a SCOTUS nominee.

Not that she'll ever have a chance.

[Buzz Clik]

64. "so why would his supporters 'retreat' anywhere". But they have their own group...

... and they tolerate no dissenting point of views.

[sabrina 1]

78. So should Hillary and O'Malley supporters retreat to their 'own groups' also? Lol!

Groups are safe havens are they not? You say 'they tolerate no dissenting views' as if any safe haven does?

Have you looked at the number of people blocked from the Hillary Group eg? And that's fine, that is why it is a 'safe haven'.

Again, a silly suggestion.

[Buzz Clik]

81. I was referring to the complaints about being challenged in GD.

If you have your own group where you stifle debate, then don't complain about being confronted in GD.

Actually, I prefer to have them in GD.

[sabrina 1]

112. Who's complaining? I WILL debunk any lies told, not just about my Candidate, but about any of them

That is not complaining, that is CORRECTING FALSE INFORMATION.

[Buzz Clik]

115. At no time in this thread did I direct a comment to you.

I have no idea where this is coming from.

[cui bono]

128. That is an AWESOME pic!!!

Love it!

[Springslips]

44. This is absolutely true...

You can't quantify on a chart a persons 'liberalness' it simply doesn't exist. One could be 1/2 radically liberal and 1/2 radically conservative and end up dead middle of the chart and be called 100-percent moderate. But that is absurd as no possition of her/his is moderate.

[FlatBaroque]

58. These types of things are great for manipulating low knowledge/information voters.

"It's in a chart, so it must be true".

[Raine1967]

79. regarding these charts:

I have heard that before here on DU. What is the backstory to it?

Personally, I do pick and choose any candidate because of a chart or who is the most lefty of the left, but that is me.

Thank you in advance if you could provide that information.

[NYC_SKP]

94. On the charts, no explanation is provided for how they are generated.

I believe that the chart for Warren is identical to that for Clinton, and that is suspect by itself.

Registered to Jesse Gordon: http://www.whois.com/whois/ontheissues.org

It claims to be non-partisan but my feelings are that it's far to poorly constructed and sourced to make that claim.

The owner and CEO of On the Issues is Dr. Naomi Lichtenberg, and I think that she and Jesse have good intentions, to bring information to voters.

http://www.jessegordon.com/Spectrum/Missoula_Independent.htm

That said, I don't see how one can escape letting your preferences and agenda color the selections made and content presented.

To me, the page on Clinton is much larger and consists more of statements she's made than other's pages. Talk is just talk, and when you're selecting quotes you can pick the good, or the bad, or some of each but how do you decide?

I find it to be preferential toward Clinton, but I do use the objective bits of data from it, like Bernie's better scores from the NAACP, ACLU and Human Rights Commission.

http://wikinfo.org/w/English/index.php/On_The_Issues

[Raine1967]

113. Thank you, NYC_SKP.

I have used the site to get sources and links, but it is the charts that have me really curious.

[cui bono]

130. IIRC, that site takes what politicians *say*, as in their *campaigns*, but does nothing to examine

their actual records. VR has been posting those graphs for years now I think, even though the the site has been shown to not bear any relevance to reality, just to a candidate's promises.

I and others went round and round with her a while ago when she trotted them out to attempt to present a false, cherry picked view of something.

[Buzz Clik]

14. Looky! Charts that challenge the Sanders's crowd notion that Bernie is the only lib in the group.

And the response?

Nothing.

[Autumn]

20. Bernie? Which one is he in that unlabeled mix? CandyLand is much better.

Yep. Nothing.

[Buzz Clik]

25. Yeah, ignorant comments are so funny.

Keep laughing at yourself. The entire country is laughing at Sanders.

[Autumn]

29. No the entire country is not laughing at Sanders. Which chart was he again?

[cali]

30. bwahaha. you chiding anyone about ignorance

I do so love unintentional irony. so you actually think the spillover crowds and the over 100.000 who have donated to Sanders are laughing at him?

[Buzz Clik]

33. And here comes cali! Right on cue. How are you! I missed you SO much.

I posted three times before you injected yourself. Again.

Damn, I hope you are being compensated because you are working your ass off!

[Jackpine Radical]

54. Yeah, Bernie trolls are getting big bucks, you bet.

And I'm pretty sure Cali's in the top tier.

There used t be a time on this board when I wouldn't have needed this---->

[Buzz Clik]

59. ... And there would have been a time that I wouldn't have needed it either.

But here we are.

[bvar22]

119. Cali isn't working near as hard as you are in this comedy of a thread.

Please Proceed.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

35. I really don't think we have to go there...

I don't see why we can't tout our candidates without denigrating others...


Let's be beacons to the community and lift our friends up rather than pull our opponents down.


Let it be said that here were people who tried to do well...

[Buzz Clik]

37. I fully agree, but the Sanders crowd have been relentless in pounding on Clinton...

... even when he has asked them not to. You read the OP, right?

By the way, I am a big fan of Sanders, but the DU Sanders supporters are insufferable.

(O'Malley strikes me as an unemplolyed professional politician who is looking for a job. But, it's early yet.)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

41. I know people hate Vanilla Rhapsody's charts...

I know people hate Vanilla Rhapsody's charts but outside of DU knowledgeable folks have looked at Hillary's and O'Malley's record and history and see them as largely interchangeable, with Hilary slightly to his left. If there's a difference it is largely one of tone because he has never been involved in a national campaign...


I see O'Malley and Hillary as largely interchangeable though he is obviously younger and Hillary has more overall experience.


I do believe there is a lot more daylight between Bernie and Hillary...

[Buzz Clik]

43. "I do believe there is a lot more daylight between Bernie and Hillary... " agreed, but...

... not in areas that are important to anyone but Sanders and his entourage. I guess that's why they are such devoted fans.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

49. My concerns are kitchen table issues

-ACA
-Food Stamps
-Medicare
-Medicaid
-civil rights for everybody
-immigration reform


I don't sit around and ruminate about Third Wayers, neoliberals, the 1%/99% divide. My concerns are more plebeian.

[1StrongBlackMan]

65. And I suspect your kitchen table issues ...

are far closer to that of the electorate than those that do sit around and ruminate about Third Wayers, neoliberals, the 1%/99% divide.

I wonder if people really believe that the "man/woman on the ground" actually give a damn about breaking up the banks, or jailing the bankers, or most of the other stuff that those ruminating about Third Wayers, neoliberals, the 1%/99% divide care so much about?

[Autumn]

45. YOU bring Sanders up in a thread about O'Malley

you did that, Sanders isn't even in those charts. O"Malley didn't even mention Sanders. Then you get push back and it's the Sanders crowd.

[Buzz Clik]

47. Gee ... what could make me think you are a Sanders fan. What could it be?

[Autumn]

52. So as a Sanders 'fan" I can't comment on another Democrat running for President?

A Democrat that I like and admire? That's just silly. You should put everyone on ignore that has an avatar or a signature line for a candidate other than Hillary.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

82. I like Sanders and O'Malley...

I try to be careful not to criticize other Democrats...

I stick to bashing Republicans and defending Hillary... I wish I could do more of the former and less of the latter here.

[Autumn]

131. I don't like bashing Democrats but I do like discussing Democratic candidates.

It's not up to me to defend any politicians actions. I'm a voter, not their Mommy. Too many people here think that discussing a politician is bashing. O'Malley is right and he's doing just what someone campaigning for office should do, going after a candidate.

[Jackpine Radical]

61. Crowd? I had no idea that there were

enough of us to form a crowd. I thought it was just a few crackpots & weird-hair fetishists.

[Autumn]

132. We are a crowd, and a crowd that's getting bigger all the time.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

186. Lib? Thanks for that.

[Robbins]

15. Charts LOL

After TPP i don't know how any can call Obama a democrat anymore.

They ignore fact of how tight the clintons are with wall street.

If Bernie wasn't in race i would vote for O'Malley over her.since he is.I can vote for best candiate there is.

[Buzz Clik]

22. " i don't know how any can call Obama a democrat anymore." Of course you can't.

You never could.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. You are a grown man or woman so I can't tell you what to do...

I will tell you it is futile to get a person to believe something when their whole world view depends on not believing it.

[VanillaRhapsody]

11. I agree with you....but I am not trying to prove a point to them necessarily....

But you are right...some on DU really do have a preconceived narrative like the teabaggers....

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. Holding up empirical evidence to some folks is like holding up a cross to a vampire./NT

[VanillaRhapsody]

21. Yeah....they hiss and wrap themselves in their capes!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

28. It really is sad and they get outraged when you refuse to engage them in a serious discussion.

I am decidedly heterodox... All forms of orthodoxy be they ideological or religious turn me off...

[Autumn]

187. We don't have capes my friend. Neither do we hiss.

Bernie is the standard bearer of truth in our Democratic party.

[R B Garr]

83. Results:

On Sun May 31, 2015, 10:45 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

I agree with you....but I am not trying to prove a point to them necessarily....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6756885

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

"How about this: People on juries should vote to hide the divisive flamebaity crap. Get hard-assed. Stop cutting the jerks any slack." ----Skinner's words from Ask the Administrators... Broad-brushing Bernie supporters on DU by likening them to the despised and insane teabaggers... implies they're not Democrats... one of the worst offenders and the perfect poster for what Skinner is talking about... Nothing but toxic bile and vitriol from this one.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun May 31, 2015, 11:01 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Aww, poor baby.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: VR's not comparing some DUers to teabaggers on the basis of equally valid sets of beliefs. But people here absolutely CAN dig their feet in on their positions without a very deep understanding of why they advocate for those positions.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: this reads like alert stalking on Vanilla Rhapsody....leave it
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is just bogus alert stalking of Vanilla Rhapsody. Nothing said here is any different from tons of other comments that are allowed if you are pro-Bernie. In fact, there have been numerous threads where anti-Hillary types were celebrating VR's time-out and keeping track of the days until his/her return. This is alert stalking a pro-Hillary poster for malicious purposes. Look more at the wording of this alert: they are trying to impugn the poster personally and not the individual post. Alerter should lose privileges for this sham.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Initial temptation was to leave it alone, but the alerter is correct. This is flamebait and it needs to stop. Hide.

[cherokeeprogressive]

89. Resolved @11:01; I'd LOVE to know what time the alert was sent...

I'd also like to know if the PM blast sent out about it for everyone who MIGHT be on the jury contained the phrase "alert stalking".

Someone needs to send a group PM telling everyone on the list never to use phrases that they read in the blast they get while serving on juries.

[Number23]

136. Thanks for posting that. Looks like a couple of jurors are hip to some things around here

[1StrongBlackMan]

66. +1 ... So true ... So true. n/t

[Fiendish Thingy]

62. Where are those charts from?

Political compass.com shows Obama on a different scale, IIRC, in a center-right position.

[neverforget]

108. that didn't last long

[cui bono]

135. Now *that's* a chart I can get behind!

[uponit7771]

154. facts suck

[elleng]

4. Yes he did.

[Orsino]

18. I don't think that's where it hurts.

America has proven again and again that celebrity and dynasties are the surest ways to power.

O'Malley will need to talk more about the dangers of dynasty if he wants to dissuade us from voting name recognition, and to win a base of his own he'll need to make a damned good case for his agenda over anyone else's.

[VanillaRhapsody]

24. Actually no Bernie Supporter...

He is far to the right of Bernie...much further than Hillary Clinton or even Barack Obama...So if you don't like Barack Obama's agenda...or even Hillary Clinton's agenda....and you want us to move more to the Center...O'Malley is the guy for ya!

[cali]

141. who is pro Death Penalty? Why Hillary is a "strong advocate" for the DP

according to that site that nilla just loooves, On The Issues. O'Malley abolished the DP in MD. Who is pro TPP, according to her 2014 book? Why Hillary, nills. O'Malley is opposed. Who was rah rah for the IWR? Why Hillary, nilla. O'Malley was opposed.

[snooper2]

180. Yeah, so far to the right of Hillary he came out against TPP, and Hillary can't make her mind up

Which way is the wind blowing today?

[1StrongBlackMan]

74. What "dynasty" are you talking about? ...

I get connecting Bush to dynasty ... but surely you don't mean a HRC Presidency would constitute a dynasty!

Why do we fall for this dreck!

[Orsino]

118. The Clinton dynasty is already established...

...having given Hillary two or three legs up into a Senate seat, into State, and now making her the nominee-presumptive for 2016. Hell, we've had DUers say they're eager to vote for Chelsea.

Yes, it's a dynasty, and no matter how fine a candidate or president Sec. Clinton would make, dynasties are inherently bad. They make candidates who don't have to try.

[1StrongBlackMan]

122. Okay. n/t

[workinclasszero]

27. Hillary will hit OMalley where it hurts

In the polls and in the primaries.

And it will be a KO

[DemocratSinceBirth]

31. We need more folks like you. My pops had all of a ninth grade education.

We need more folks like you. My pops had all of a ninth grade education. I learned more about how to navigate through life from him than I learned in twenty years of formal education.

[kenfrequed]

38. Sure...

But I like Bernie Sanders better because he DOESN'T talk about Hillary. He talks about issues and he is absolutely solid on his policy positions. O'Malley is great but his speeches have a lot of platitudes in them that I tend to gloss over in search of the details.

Again, I like O'Malley, but I am going to support Sanders!

[bigtree]

68. um, Sanders has both spoken highly of Hillary, personally (as has O'Malley)

...yet, has made several pointed references to her connection with big money.

Here's his criticism of her (and her husband's) speaking fees:

“When you hustle money like that, you don’t sit in restaurants like this. You sit in restaurants where you’re spending—I don’t know what they spend—hundreds of dollars for dinner and so forth. That’s the world that you’re accustomed to, and that’s the world view that you adopt. You’re not worrying about a kid three blocks away from here whose mom can’t afford to feed him.”

“So yes, I think that can isolate you—that type of wealth has the potential to isolate you from the reality of the world.”

Declaring that he isn't running against Hillary is an interesting tactic which I think is designed to invoke the image of comity between the two, and I'm certain there is comity between them to a degree. But Sanders is running directly at Hillary Clinton's politics - that's a reality which folks who support her may view as attacking her personally. It's a political campaign for the future position of these candidates, so, I think that's not a unreasonable conclusion.

[Peacetrain]

46. Interesting reactions to Gov. O'Malley entering the race by some

I first posted about O'Malley last summer ...I had got a chance to meet him, talk to him, and he is the real deal who got things done... and it was an interesting thing to watch people with 4 posts comes in to talk sh*t about him.. John and I looked at a few of these newbies who would suddenly show up to troll .. when John said to me.. You know, I think O'Malley scares the beans out of the other side.. He is the thing they fear worst. A liberal who can connect and has actually got things done for the liberal side of the aisle.

I also remember how a certain Senator Barack Obama was dismissed when he first announced.

I am not saying that everyone who has issues to debate with the O'Malley team or Gov. O'Malleys positions , are trolls or right-wing nuts.. far from it.. You should have passion about the candidate you are putting your time in to work for.

But I am saying this.. being dismissive of any candidate, is not a winning position. (I certainly am not.. Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders are definitely way ahead in the polls) Stupid I am not.. Unrealistic I am not..
That gets you nothing but ulcers in the end.


I do not plan to have ulcers.. and who ever gets the final nod from all the members of my party at the end of the caucuses and primaries has my full support..

[treestar]

55. I'm already unimpressed

the bit about the crown has always been stupid.

The crap about Wall Street is always vague.

[Cha]

161. Exactly.. not after losing in 2008 and 4 years as SOS... she's working her way back. I still

don't have a candidate but I find myself defending Hillary from the lazy cheap pot shots.

But, I'm not dismissing Gov O'Malley.. just don't like that. I've put up with so many ignorant cheap pots on Pres Obama over the years.. kinda sick to pieces. If it's real and constructive.. OK.

[1StrongBlackMan]

56. That was the only line of his Announcement speech ...

that I didn't like.

[Jesus Malverde]

57. That stings...

“The presidency is not a crown to be passed back and forth, by you, between two royal families. It is a sacred trust to be earned from the American people and exercised on behalf of the people of these United States.”

[heaven05]

103. great line

to o'malley

[geek tragedy]

70. .

No concern about crowns in 2007-2008, when Clinton was running as a Mark Penn centrist to replace Bush.

[bigtree]

76. eight years ago, many folks here with different choices this election expressed support for Clinton

...over Barack Obama, as well.

2007 - 'When Hillary Clinton was first sworn in as senator I was so proud of her'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x585252

2008 - I will support Hillary Clinton for President
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4334440

[RufusTFirefly]

71. Charts! Charts! We've all got charts!

This one's from The Political Compass, which has been around since 2001 and has the added benefit of an international perspective. Many would consider me to be far left in this country (I think that's absurd), but I've got center-right friends from Germany with whom I have many agreements on social issues and the safety net. This particular chart was created before O'Malley was a factor on the national stage. (It's from the 2008 campaign.) Nonetheless, I think it's informative in terms of more realistically situating President Obama and President-elect Hillary Clinton. If by "liberal," you mean "neo-liberal" then Clinton definitely qualifies.



http://www.politicalcompass.org/

[polichick]

87. Interesting. How will he position himself relative to Bernie?

[bigtree]

104. I would highlight his experience in actually enacting the things he's advocated for

...and let the effectiveness of our national legislature speak for itself.

[Faygo Kid]

88. Here we go again, 2008 all over.

It was beyond nasty here in 2008. People, Monday is JUNE 1, 2015! Save the wars for now. Heck, I sent a donation to John Edwards early in 2008 (money I would like back), and we're nowhere near even the first of the year 2016.

Get some air, ride a bike, go to a farmer's market, walk your dog, fire up the barbecue, read a book. Follow the candidates' positions, OK. But it's too early for this kind of warfare.

Have to admit, though, can't wait for the comedy of that first GOP debate.

[heaven05]

90. possible second choice

I'll have to research his voting on on civil and human rights, economic issues(TPP ect).

[Depaysement]

95. Blankfein would be just fine

With Bernie or O'Malley or Rubio or anyone else. Goldman makes money anyway.

[cutroot]

106. Why would anyone want to hurt a fellow Democrat?

[stonecutter357]

107. good

[wordpix]

109. excellent hit! O'Malley can pack a punch & that's good

Hilary is not my choice to hammer Wall St. since she's so cozy with the 1%. For that reason I'll vote for her best opponent in the primary.

[cheapdate]

110. His announcement speech was fuzzy, bland, and instantly forgettable.

Hat's off to him for running. But, if the only way he sees a chance of winning the nomination is by strongly attacking the Democratic frontrunner (HRC), then I'd rather he didn't. I'd rather see him run more like Bernie, by arguing for his own ideas and beliefs and not by attacking the other candidates.

[bigtree]

116. like saying Hillary 'hustles money'

...and isn't worried about hungry children?

Here's Bernie Sander's criticism of Hillary (and her husband's) speaking fees:

“When you hustle money like that, you don’t sit in restaurants like this. You sit in restaurants where you’re spending—I don’t know what they spend—hundreds of dollars for dinner and so forth. That’s the world that you’re accustomed to, and that’s the world view that you adopt. You’re not worrying about a kid three blocks away from here whose mom can’t afford to feed him.”

“So yes, I think that can isolate you—that type of wealth has the potential to isolate you from the reality of the world.”

...rose-colored glasses off.

[cheapdate]

121. I'm aware of that, and I was aware of it when I wrote it.

I think it's generally true of Sanders that he pushes his own ideas without substantially relying on the other candidates as points of reference. He generally makes positive arguments for his own beliefs and ideas.

It's not always true, however. He will attack Hillary directly. But more often than that, he will deflect questions about Hillary and decline to get negative. At least as far as I've seen.

My glasses are clear.

[cheapdate]

125. Then there's this --

<<GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: –why should progressive voters pick you over Bernie Sanders?

GOVERNOR O’MALLEY: Because I have a track record of actually getting things done, not just talking about things.>>

-- ABC's "This Week". 5/31/15


O'Malley might be an effective leader himself, but that's a pretty f%$ked up thing to say. Firstly, because it's absurdly false. It was a Bernie Sanders bill that reformed veterans’ health care last year. And just last week, the Postal Service backed off of a plan to close 82 more mail processing plants thanks to pressure from Sen. Sanders. Secondly, and probably more importantly, because it's both carelessly and knowingly false.

If O'Malley wants to rise above and stand out, he needs to do something different, in my opinion, not just prattle off the same kind of campaign horseshit that everyone else does.

[Koinos]

126. What I need to know...

What I need to know is which bills submitted by Sanders have actually been signed into law. It is apparent that the Republican House and (now) the Republican Senate have obstructed most bills submitted by Democrats. Which bills proposed by Sanders have actually made it to the president's desk and been signed into law? I am just trying to sort this all out.

[cheapdate]

143. I don't know.

From GovTrack.us:

Some of Sanders’s most recently sponsored bills include...

S. 1373: College for All Act
S. 1371: Inclusive Prosperity Act of 2015
S. 1364: Medicaid Generic Drug Price Fairness Act of 2015
S. 1366: A bill to amend the charter of the Gold Star Wives of America ...
S. 1206: Too Big To Fail, Too Big To Exist Act
S. 1041: End Polluter Welfare Act of 2015
S. 964: Nuclear Plant Decommissioning Act of 2015

View All » (including bills from previous years)

My point was that O'Malley's jibe at Sanders was an unnecessary cheap shot. Sanders is a hardworking public official. His exact record of getting legislation past the GOP house is beside the point, in my opinion.

[Koinos]

144. Not in my opinion.

It is quixotic (perhaps too strong) to initiate bills that have no hope of passing. I suppose it depends upon what you mean by "getting things done." Ideas without execution are useless.

I don't think it was a cheap shot. I think O'Malley was distinguishing between legislative and executive experience.

I like Bernie a whole lot, but I don't think his strong suit is executive experience. And being mayor of Burlington is a whole lot different from being mayor of Baltimore or governor of Maryland.

Candidates for president have traditionally been mostly governors or senators. Being a governor is different from being a senator.

Holding an executive office is different from holding a legislative seat.

Each candidate for president has both strengths and weaknesses. I like Bernie, but neither he nor O'Malley can walk on water.

[cheapdate]

145. We'll just have to disagree.

No legislation gets through this congress unless it's a must-pass appropriation, or some symbolic nonsense, and no elected member of congress can boast of any grand legislative accomplishments since 2010.

Bernie Sanders is an exceptionally hard working public servant, and O'Malley's careless and dismissive jibe was unwarranted and unnecessary. I don't know O'Malley, but I have less respect for him because of his loose talk, and I'll have even less if he continues on this tack as the campaign draws on.

For all of O'Malley's easy talk about "replacing the board of directors" at US financial institutions, he'll hit the exact, same brick wall that Sanders, Obama, and anyone else in Washington has experienced for the past several years -- as long as the GOP controls either chamber of congress.

[Koinos]

170. Most people don't know O'Malley -- yet.

The O'Malley Group is a good place to start to learn more about O'Malley's progressive credentials and actual accomplishments as governor of Maryland. He has done one heck of a lot. He is justified in being confident about his executive ability. Don't underestimate him.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1281

One further question I ask myself is which candidate will have better coattails for getting more democrats into the House and Senate. That would be an incremental step in "getting things done." Which candidate will be more comfortable working within the democratic party system? Which candidate will bring the party together after the democratic convention? Which candidate will call himself or herself a democrat in his or her acceptance speech at the convention? Can Bernie bend that far?

Martin O'Malley is and has always been a democrat. I see no point in Bernie's insistence in retaining the label "democratic socialist," apart from stubbornness. That will hurt him in the general election, and it will affect his ability to work with the democratic party. Our nominee has got to get "non-socialist" democrats elected and will in turn rely on "non-socialist" democrats for support in getting elected. Without party unity and solidarity (may sound corny to many, but that doesn't make it less true), we won't get the coattail victory we need to win back the legislature.

[bigtree]

146. it's clear that you favor Sanders here

..that's fine.

However, it perfectly legitimate to highlight and contrast O'Malley's record of actually enacting the things he talks about with Congress' relative inaction on many issues. Of course, the rebuttal would be that enacting something in a state which has so many registered Democrats is easier than advancing national legislation. Still, there's definitely something appealing about making a real difference in real people's lives through initiatives like the Dream Act and other solid support for 'New Americans'; marriage equality; reproductive and other health options for low income women, abortion rights; protection of the environment; higher minimum wage; decriminalizing marijuana...

Then, there's the dynamic of legislators taking credit for successes and shunning ownership of legislative failures.

As for 'campaign horseshit,' you'll find, as I pointed out to you above (and you unconvincingly brushed off) that exaggerated rhetoric isn't going to be exclusive to O'Malley. Sanders has already shown he's not immune to that, so, perhaps, dial back the outrage over statements you disagree with from these seasoned politicians.

[cheapdate]

151. Yes, Sanders is not immune, a fact which I recognized, for Pete's sake.

Nor am I "outraged". I'm making conversation, as people tend to do on political discussion boards.

I don't know O'Malley. His announcement speech was not impressive. His blandishments lacked passion and depth, in my opinion. He's clearly more progressive than Hillary, but he's less of a departure from established politics than is Sanders.

Sure, it's legitimate to highlight and contrast experience. But as you pointed out, the contrast is between unlike things.

As I said to another poster:

"For all of O'Malley's easy talk about "replacing the board of directors" at US financial institutions, he'll hit the exact, same brick wall that Sanders, Obama, and anyone else in Washington has experienced for the past several years -- as long as the GOP controls either chamber of congress."

[Cha]

160. Oh, Zing at Bernie from O'Malley! Cheap shot or not?

GS" "..why should progressive voters pick you over Bernie Sanders?"

GOVERNOR O’MALLEY: "..Because I have a track record of actually getting things done, not just talking about things."

Thanks cheapdate.. it's not just Hillary who got it.

[cheapdate]

168. Cheap shot.

[Kalidurga]

120. I didn't miss it...

And I am not surprised. I forget what speech it was last month, but it was an "Oh no you didn't" moment, in a good way. I knew then he was actually going to campaign for President and not the Vice-President position.

[Lil Missy]

134. Meh. Same ole, same ole.n/t

[whatchamacallit]

138. Same ole truth. n/t

[whatchamacallit]

137. Good, sing it from the mountaintops

The people need to roused from their slumber and reminded their precious democracy has been sold to the highest bidder. The Clinton/Bush tag team is a perversion.

[L0oniX]

139. zzzzzwap bam zok pow kapow biff pam thunk whamm boomffff

[hifiguy]

140. I am a strong Bernie supporte

but I like what I am hearing from O'Malley and welcome him to the race. I will be listening to O'Malley as well as Bernie.

[SusanCalvin]

147. Here's what I thought was hilarious -

I'm assuming the CEO of Goldman Sachs was trying to be a good citizen by stating that he would not express a political preference. Good on him, as far as it goes. But I LOVE the way O'Malley twisted it to his own use. Good on him as well.

[Koinos]

152. I think that Elizabeth Warren would not have been "fine" with him.

Wall Street was worried she might run. She wanted the lot of them (not good citizens by any means) to be prosecuted.

[SusanCalvin]

153. I'm not fine with him either, of course.

In general.

But if he made it clear he wasn't expressing a preference, it's an improvement as far as plutocrat behavior is concerned.

Still love the way it was used.

[Joe the Revelator]

148. O'Malley has been impressive so far. Keep it up. nt

[NYC Liberal]

157. Oh, the "dynasty" trope? Disgusting sexism, and I'm surprised to see it from a self-styled

"progressive."

See, it implies Hillary is her husband. But she and Bill are two different people, who have different views and positions. Them being married does not change that. The fact that they happen to share a last name doesn't change that. It is sexist to claim that Hillary should be disqualified from the presidency simply because her husband happened to have served.

Hillary is her own person and she cannot inherit the White House. If she wants to be president, she must convince the party and then the country to vote for her. That's democracy, which some people apparently aren't too keen on.

[Cha]

163. Precisely, NYC Liberal.. good analysis. She is not her husband Bill. It's too lazy an attack.

[loyalsister]

162. He sort of reminds me of Howard Dean

He's not as forceful, but he's definitely candid with his criticism. Of course, he can also point to his executive experience.

I'm catching some of the "you've got the power" tone, too. "A stronger middle class is the cause of economic growth", "the only way we are going to rebuild the American dream is if we retake control of our own American government" "it's up to all of us" etc.... I hope he builds on that.

No matter how well he does, I think he's going to be a strong positive force in the primary. I look forward to hearing more from him.

[Cha]

164. Gov O'Malley zings Bernie, too..

GS" "..why should progressive voters pick you over Bernie Sanders?"

GOVERNOR O’MALLEY: "..Because I have a track record of actually getting things done, not just talking about things."

cheapdate..

<<GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: –why should progressive voters pick you over Bernie Sanders?

GOVERNOR O’MALLEY: Because I have a track record of actually getting things done, not just talking about things.>>

-- ABC's "This Week". 5/31/15

http://www.politicususa.com/2015/05/31/martin-omalley-turn-democratic-primary-ugly-attacking-bernie-sanders.html

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6758629

Cheap shot or not?

[bigwillq]

167. Good for you, Mr. O'Malley

[Nitram]

174. Cheap shot by a demagogue.

As was the references to age and generations.

[LanternWaste]

178. I imagine if it did indeed hurt, a major shift in the polls will be evident.

I imagine if it did indeed hurt, a major shift in the polls will be evident. Otherwise, it's just another bumper-sticker-- without meaning or substance, yet fun to pretend otherwise.