Surveillance powers set to lapse with no deal in Senate

[octoberlib]

WASHINGTON (AP) — Senate Republicans say they've been unable to make a deal to extend contested anti-terror provisions. As a result, the post-Sept. 11 programs will expire at midnight.

Sen. John Cornyn of Texas says the program will "go dark" at midnight due to objections in the Senate.

The objections have come primarily from GOP Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky, who is running for president.

Intelligence officials are warning that the result of the Senate's inaction will amount to a win for terrorists.

At issue is a program allowing the National Security Agency to collect Americans' phone records in bulk to search for terror connections. Other lesser-known provisions also will expire.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/a1cd5f1a0a5c4648be216629db0c1641/senate-meets-key-patriot-act-provisions-ropes

[NightWatcher]

1. Sure it will go dark, and they weren't snooping prior to 9/11 either

And if you believe that, there's a bridge I'd like to sell you

[octoberlib]

2. Yeah, I know. Look at all the stuff that went on during the J.Edgar Hoover era.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. The AP will have to retract at the pace this is going

54-11... nail biter

[octoberlib]

5. Aargh. Surely McConnell knows how many votes he's got.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. 66-14 at this point

[octoberlib]

8. This is a vote to limit debate?

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Yes, cloture vote

we still need the final vote for the legislation... so until the final I will not scream too hard about Sanders voting Aye, Paul was damn consistent and voted no. This is a procedural vote.

[AtomicKitten]

4. Good. Let that POS legislation expire.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. They got cloture

they will have an extension on the USPA.

[octoberlib]

10. Well, technically it expires until they get legislation passed and Obama signs it.

The Senate voted on Sunday to advance legislation reforming National Security Agency surveillance programs.

The bipartisan approval sets up a vote on final passage that will send the legislation to the White House, where President Obama has vowed to sign it.



But the legislation will not reach Obama’s desk until after midnight, when Patriot Act provisions authorizing the NSA programs expire.
That means there will be a lapse of the programs until the Senate can take a final vote on the legislation.

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/243575-senate-advances-nsa-reform-but-program-to-lapse-at-midnight



But I would've preferred that it be dead in the water.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Yeah, but if they cloture, they likely have the votes

unless we are all reading the US Senate wrong.

[MohRokTah]

13. There will be NO cloture vote.

A vote to limit debate requires 60 votes just like cloture.

It is, in effect, a back door cloture vote.

The next vote is up or down after the limited debate period has expired.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. Didn't you say in another thread that cloture passed

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6759058

yes, yes you did

And you are also correct that this will limit debate. C-SPAN actually moved from cloture to limit debate... which happens, not often, but it does.

Though yes, you are correct, the next vote is the legislation itself.

[MohRokTah]

15. That is basically what a vote to limit debate is.

It is taken instead of a cloture vote during the actual debate.

Once limited debate is passed, there is no need for cloture.

Limited debate is a back door cloture vote.

Just as cloture votes gave Senators cover a few decades ago, limited debate votes are giving them cover these days.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. They were confused early on

as I said, it happens, not often, but it happens.

And I agree, cover is wonderful...err not

[MohRokTah]

18. I can guarantee you, the final vote will not be 76-17 as it currently stands.

And may who voted to limit debate will safely tell their states, "I voted against extending the Patriot Act."

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. I know, Feinstein voting for it...sure

Boxer, Warren and Sanders, nay. They were all ayes.

I watch this crap regularly.

[MohRokTah]

12. The vote to limit debate has passed.

The next vote will be up or down after a limited debate period.

This is a back door cloture, and it's done.

They have the votes for an up or down.

[octoberlib]

17. Thanks for the explanation. This stuff is confusing.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Bodies use roberts rules of order

but the US Senate is particularly confusing for the particular nature of it's internal rules that are extremely arcane. Some of these votes do not exist in Roberts.

The House follows it a tad more closely. County boards and city halls do. And the first few times you need a program, you cannot tell the score without a program! This is one reason why people usually do not watch this crap. It should be required civics education.

And kids at times groan when required. When hubby took poli sci in college, one class requirement was to attend and write a report on a meeting of any of the 28, I think city halls in the county. Or the Board of Supers. As press, we attend these things regularly, so he instead explained some of that to the class. Including some of the games. Though I admit, I can stream it.

The best part are the games...

[MohRokTah]

22. Believe it or not, the rules were originally penned by Jefferson.

They have changed somewhat over the years, but the arcane procedures date back to Jefferson.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. They do

he was trying to ape the Roman Senate. He loved the Roman Senate. But after Roberts came around, they incorporated some.

At least Jefferson did not go after the Athenian Agora, I can see it, use shards of pottery

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. And the games have actually started

with one changing his vote from nay to aye

[DCBob]

24. Its going to pass eventually..

but there will a lapse for a time until they can take the final vote which I am sure will pass and then send to the President for signature. This is kabuki theater.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. Paul is being rather consistent

and for this, I love him. His internal national policy, like oh social security, not. But this, he is extremely consistent. (Yes he is what 90 percent wrong, but when he is right, he is right)

[grasswire]

26. Yes, his five minute speech was a barn burner today.

I was cheering his attacks on Surveillance State and Clapper. They gaveled him down pronto.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. So did Wyden, partly

[DCBob]

28. Paul: "This bill will ultimately pass."

The Senate voted 77-17 in favor of a measure that allowed the chamber to begin debate on the bill, called the USA Freedom Act. But the domestic surveillance program was still due to expire at midnight (12:00 a.m. EDT on Monday) after Senator Rand Paul blocked several attempts at short-term extensions.

Senate rules mean it likely will be the middle of the week before the chamber can vote on whether or not to pass the Freedom Act, which extends the existing surveillance program for six months while the new system gets up and running.

Still, Paul, a Republican 2016 presidential hopeful who had vigorously opposed the Freedom Act, acknowledged after the procedural vote: "This bill will ultimately pass."

The bill would replace three key surveillance provisions of the USA Patriot Act, signed into law by Republican President George W. Bush after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/31/us-usa-security-surveillance-idUSKBN0OG0RF20150531