Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

H2O Man

(73,537 posts)
Mon Jun 1, 2015, 10:15 AM Jun 2015

The Public Square

I was encouraged by Bernie Sanders’ call for an increase in the number of presidential candidates’ debates, and even more so by his suggestion that a more open, inclusive forum be used. It will be interesting to see two things: first, if any of the marginal republicans endorse the concept; and second, how the corporate machines behind both parties respond.

The republican machine, of course, is intent upon limiting both access to, and the number of, their primary debates. As Willard Romney has said, there’s no use in even talking to 47% of the voters. Rick Perry himself has noted there are three reasons for this. But there are plenty of others, such as Rand Paul, who appear eager to appear on any stage.

I suppose it is inevitable that some in the Democratic Party will insist that Sanders’ suggestion is foolish, and that there are established rules that make it impossible to seriously consider providing the American public with that more open and inclusive format to discuss the serious problems that we face. It’s possible that they will take a page from the republican book -- first, make fun of the idea; second, say its impossible; and then simply ignore it.

Every step towards bringing “politics” back to the Public Square is, in my opinion, a good thing. Indeed, that is what our constitutional democracy requires. It is, in essence, the opposite of having decisions made in what were once known as “smoke-filled rooms,” but now are plush, air-conditioned corporate offices.

The three announced democratic candidates -- Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders, and Martin O’Malley -- are all capable communicators; each would have opportunity to appeal to a wider base by using such a format. It would be interesting to show the stark differences between reality-based candidates, and those who deny climate change. There are other extremely important issues to be discussed, from national security to the TPP. This format could only be “high risk” for a corporate candidate, such as Jeb Bush.

Malcolm X used to say that if you place a sparkling clean glass of water next to a glass of filthy sludge, you can trust a thirsty public to make the correct choice. I think a “water-taste-test” in the Public Square is a great idea.

Peace,
H2O Man

14 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
The Public Square (Original Post) H2O Man Jun 2015 OP
It would be nice to have more diversity. malthaussen Jun 2015 #1
I think that H2O Man Jun 2015 #3
The concept of you being accused of being Pat Buchanon blows my mind... malthaussen Jun 2015 #6
It was a giggle. H2O Man Jun 2015 #9
I'm, naturally, very disappointed in the party leadership and rules limiting us to six debates. NYC_SKP Jun 2015 #2
Thank you! H2O Man Jun 2015 #5
The questions asked will also be controlled IMO. L0oniX Jun 2015 #7
Yep. H2O Man Jun 2015 #12
We don't want people refusing to debate because there's a fan under the lectern. L0oniX Jun 2015 #13
Ha! H2O Man Jun 2015 #14
there's too much deference by debate organizers to front-runners bigtree Jun 2015 #4
Right. H2O Man Jun 2015 #8
Great post... SoapBox Jun 2015 #10
Thank you! H2O Man Jun 2015 #11

malthaussen

(17,195 posts)
1. It would be nice to have more diversity.
Mon Jun 1, 2015, 10:35 AM
Jun 2015

On the Republican side, it's pretty clear that you can't tell the players without a scorecard, and I suspect the money-men are going to throw funds at all of them until they find the one who catches a wave. On the dem side... well, I am reluctant to express any opinion in DU, given the trend to accuse everyone of vested interests and hating (a year before the primaries!)(Not that I would expect such a response from you, but this is open forum). But in the final analysis, Malcolm was right as usual (and look what happened to him), and the corollary of evil-doers fearing the light is that light-loving creatures rarely do much evil.

-- Mal

H2O Man

(73,537 posts)
3. I think that
Mon Jun 1, 2015, 12:24 PM
Jun 2015

there are quite a few people who are hesitant to express their opinions on the democratic contest, because of the hostility of others who feel free -- even obligated -- to belittle and insult people who think differently than they do. Presidential primary seasons have always been rather odd times on DU; in my own experience, I have been accused of being everything from an "operative," to Patrick Buchanan. And in 2008, I had a cluster of folks who wanted me kicked off the site, simply for expressing my opinion on issues. Gracious!

What amazes me is how good people -- and I believe that 99% of DUers who disagree with my opinions are good and sincere Democrats -- are willing to waste the energy that DU should be harnessing, and investing in furthering the struggle for social justice.

It's funny: yesterday, I met with an associate from another area community. He had been to his church earlier in the morning. The town he resides in faces a set of problems very similar to those that my community is confronted with. He said that after the service, a group of people approached him and said, in effect, that they were aware that he and I are friends, and they believe the two of us will provide the leadership our communities need to deal effectively with those problems.

He noted that when the board he was elected to serve on held its most recent public meeting, not a single citizen showed up. He found that unacceptable. And frustrating. Because he has only been active in politics -- other than voting -- for three years now, we talked about the curious dynamics that he has encountered.

malthaussen

(17,195 posts)
6. The concept of you being accused of being Pat Buchanon blows my mind...
Mon Jun 1, 2015, 01:04 PM
Jun 2015

... although come to think of it, your street name is Pat...

-- Mal

H2O Man

(73,537 posts)
9. It was a giggle.
Mon Jun 1, 2015, 01:16 PM
Jun 2015

The person who informed some other DUers of my "true identity" has attempted to converse with me a few times in the years since. No, thank you.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
2. I'm, naturally, very disappointed in the party leadership and rules limiting us to six debates.
Mon Jun 1, 2015, 10:44 AM
Jun 2015

And I've read some of the commentary from Democrats suggesting that six is just fine; that a good candidate should be able to express themselves in six debates and I should just get accept it.

I should also just accept that our State Department promoted fracking, because I guess Chevron is jobs or it's Obama's idea.

We are also to accept that it's A-OK to use dark money and Super PACs to become elected so that you can follow through on promises to end dark money and super PACS.

And I nod my head, just a little, the way I used to when my stepfather would explain that the only 500 of his 1973 "Ford Custom 500" sedan were ever made.



Let us open the blinds and, heck, tear the roof off our house to let in some pure daylight and fresh air.

More debates, and mixed debates, and the party leadership be damned.

Recommended.

H2O Man

(73,537 posts)
5. Thank you!
Mon Jun 1, 2015, 12:44 PM
Jun 2015

On one hand, I certainly appreciate that those who have worked in the Democratic Party's structure are not pleased when "new" people demand "instant" changes in party operations. On the other hand, unless one believes that things are going along A-Okay -- that our society's response to climate change is adequate, that peace is about to break out in the Middle East, and that our economy is doing wonders for everyone -- then we need change. Now.

H2O Man

(73,537 posts)
12. Yep.
Mon Jun 1, 2015, 03:38 PM
Jun 2015

It would be far more interesting and valuable to have a real debate, without pre-fab questions and scripted answers .....where candidates could, for example, question the other candidates.

 

L0oniX

(31,493 posts)
13. We don't want people refusing to debate because there's a fan under the lectern.
Mon Jun 1, 2015, 03:46 PM
Jun 2015


Rick Scott Almost Refused To Debate Charlie Crist Over A Fan
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/15/rick-scott-debate-fan_n_5993412.html

Florida's second gubernatorial debate got off to a bizarre start Wednesday evening when incumbent Gov. Rick Scott (R) initially refused to debate his opponent because he had a fan under his lectern.

H2O Man

(73,537 posts)
14. Ha!
Mon Jun 1, 2015, 04:02 PM
Jun 2015

I remember that! It was so strange.

I've got the US Senate debate on now. It had me thinking of what was known as the Senate's Golden Age, when it featured serious debates about the great issues of the time. It was beneficial to the nation.

Obviously, presidential campaign debates are different than Senate operations. But the potential for something meaningful is there. (The potential still exists in the Senate, too, although the quality of characters there would need to improve for that to happen.)

bigtree

(85,996 posts)
4. there's too much deference by debate organizers to front-runners
Mon Jun 1, 2015, 12:31 PM
Jun 2015

...we only get expanded debates when they're in trouble in the polls.

H2O Man

(73,537 posts)
8. Right.
Mon Jun 1, 2015, 01:15 PM
Jun 2015

Even the "debates" that we've seen in recent years have been pretty much packaged presentations, with very little that could be accurately described as a debate. The idea of having some formats that include both Democrats and republicans (during the primaries, rather than one-on-one for the general election) could provide the public with some serious debating of important issues.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»The Public Square