White progressives’ racial myopia: Why their colorblindness fails minorities — and the left

[geek tragedy]

Challenge to white progressives, especially supporters of Sanders and Warren: try to read this without being in a defensive mindset from the get-go. There's some good insight in here. And, no, no one is calling anyone a racist, or accusing anyone of not taking issues of racial inequality seriously.

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/01/white_progressives_racial_myopia_why_their_colorblindness_fails_minorities_and_the_left/

So could Elizabeth Warren’s. I love her stirring stories about her upbringing: the days when her mother’s minimum wage job could support a family, when unions built the American middle class, and when Warren herself could attend a public university for almost nothing. Like a lot of white progressives, she points to the post World War II era as a kind of golden age when income inequality flattened and opportunity spread, the result of progressive action by government. I’ve written about the political lessons of that era repeatedly myself.

But the golden age wasn’t golden for people who weren’t white. Yes, African American incomes rose and unemployment declined in those years. But black people were locked out of many of the wealth-generating opportunities of the era: blocked from suburbs with restricted covenants and redlined into neighborhoods where banks wouldn’t lend; left out by the GI Bill, which didn’t prevent racial discrimination; neglected by labor unions, which discriminated against or outright blocked black members. (That’s why I gave my book, “What’s the Matter with White People?”, the subtitle “Why We Long for a Golden Age that Never Was.”)

Conservatives look back at those post-World War II years as a magical time when men were men, women raised children, LGBT folks didn’t exist or stayed closeted, and the country was white. Progressives point to the government support that created that alleged golden age, but they too often make it sound rosier than it was for people who weren’t white. In fact some of those same policies of the 1950s helped create the stunning disparities between black and white family wealth, which leaves even highly paid and highly educated African Americans more vulnerable to sliding out of the middle class.

...


Ironically, our first black president has exhausted the patience of many African Americans with promises that a rising economic justice tide will lift their boats. President Obama himself has rejected race-specific solutions to the problems of black poverty, arguing that policies like universal preschool, a higher minimum wage, stronger family supports and infrastructure investment, along with the Affordable Care Act, all disproportionately help black people, since black people are disproportionately poor.

At the Progressive Agenda event last month, I heard activists complain that they’d been told the same thing: the agenda will disproportionately benefit black people, because they’re disproportionately disadvantaged, even if it didn’t specifically address the core issue of criminal justice reform. (De Blasio later promised the agenda would include that issue.) But six years of hearing that from a black president has exhausted people’s patience, and white progressives aren’t going to be able to get away with it anymore.

...

And American politics today requires that they be corrected: no Democrat can win the presidency without consolidating the Obama coalition, particularly the African American vote.

If you want blacks, Latinos, and young people to tune you out, base your rhetoric on how awesome things were in the 1950's.

[Tarheel_Dem]

1. "try to read this without being in a defensive mindset from the get-go."

I admire you, and thanks.

[Cali_Democrat]

2. "If you want blacks, Latinos, and young people to tune you out....

base your rhetoric on how awesome things were in the 1950's."

-----------------------------

Indeed.

This reminds me of the stand up comedy Louis CK did where he said time travel is an exclusively white privilege.

Black people can't go back in time like whites can.

Great stuff.

[cali]

3. I agree. the so called golden age wasn't golden for minorities

or women either for that matter. But dems centrists? Far worse. Bernie, btw, supports affirmative action. I think progressives need to listen to the black community

[cyberswede]

18. Yep. nt

[hifiguy]

44. Agreed on al points. cali. nt

[YoungDemCA]

4. Kick and Rec.

Thanks.

[workinclasszero]

5. Good post

Thanks

[mythology]

6. Given that the article exerpt you provided contains at least one major historical inaccuracy

I'll take a pass.

The GI bill absolutely did not exclude blacks after World War 2. The percentage of black students in colleges tripled from 1940 to 1950 and the GI bill was vitally important to the growth of the civil rights movement.

Additionally the CIO unions were one of the most integrated segments of society even back into the 1930s. Yes some unions were racist, but the article paints them all with the same brush and ignores the contributions of labor unions to the civil rights movement.

So please, don't lecture me about needing to not look at the past with rose colored glasses while at the same time looking at the past and ignoring the parts that don't fit the argument the author wants to make.

[gollygee]

8. .

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/28/books/review/when-affirmative-action-was-white-uncivil-rights.html

Katznelson reserves his harshest criticism for the unfair application of the Servicemen's Readjustment Act, known as the G.I. Bill of Rights, a series of programs that poured $95 billion into expanding opportunity for soldiers returning from World War II. Over all, the G.I. Bill was a dramatic success, helping 16 million veterans attend college, receive job training, start businesses and purchase their first homes. Half a century later, President Clinton praised the G.I. Bill as "the best deal ever made by Uncle Sam," and said it "helped to unleash a prosperity never before known."

But Katznelson demonstrates that African-American veterans received significantly less help from the G.I. Bill than their white counterparts. "Written under Southern auspices," he reports, "the law was deliberately designed to accommodate Jim Crow." He cites one 1940's study that concluded it was "as though the G.I. Bill had been earmarked 'For White Veterans Only.' " Southern Congressional leaders made certain that the programs were directed not by Washington but by local white officials, businessmen, bankers and college administrators who would honor past practices. As a result, thousands of black veterans in the South -- and the North as well -- were denied housing and business loans, as well as admission to whites-only colleges and universities. They were also excluded from job-training programs for careers in promising new fields like radio and electrical work, commercial photography and mechanics. Instead, most African-Americans were channeled toward traditional, low-paying "black jobs" and small black colleges, which were pitifully underfinanced and ill equipped to meet the needs of a surging enrollment of returning soldiers.

The statistics on disparate treatment are staggering. By October 1946, 6,500 former soldiers had been placed in nonfarm jobs by the employment service in Mississippi; 86 percent of the skilled and semiskilled jobs were filled by whites, 92 percent of the unskilled ones by blacks. In New York and northern New Jersey, "fewer than 100 of the 67,000 mortgages insured by the G.I. Bill supported home purchases by nonwhites." Discrimination continued as well in elite Northern colleges. The University of Pennsylvania, along with Columbia the least discriminatory of the Ivy League colleges, enrolled only 46 black students in its student body of 9,000 in 1946. The traditional black colleges did not have places for an estimated 70,000 black veterans in 1947. At the same time, white universities were doubling their enrollments and prospering with the infusion of public and private funds, and of students with their G.I. benefits.

http://www.nber.org/digest/dec02/w9044.html

The G.I. Bill, World War II, and the Education of Black Americans
"...For those black veterans more likely to be limited to the South in their collegiate choices, the G.I. Bill exacerbated rather than narrowed the economic and educational differences between blacks and whites."

The unprecedented support for the education of returning World War II veterans provided by the G.I. Bill was notably race-neutral in its statutory terms. More than 1 million black men had served in the military during World War II and these men shared in eligibility for educational benefits, which included tuition payments and a stipend for up to four years of college or other training. Yet, the effects of military service and the availability of educational benefits may have differed by race and geography as black men from the South returned to segregated systems of higher education, with relatively limited opportunities at historically black institutions.

In Closing the Gap or Widening the Divide: The Effects of the G.I. Bill and World War II on the Educational Outcomes of Black Americans (NBER Working Paper No. 9044), authors Sarah Turner and John Bound conclude that the G.I. Bill had a markedly different effect on educational attainment for black and white veterans after the war. While the introduction of generous student aid through the G.I. Bill held the promise of significantly reducing black-white gaps in educational opportunity and long-run economic outcomes, the G.I. Bill exacerbated rather than narrowed the economic and educational differences between blacks and whites among men from the South.

For white men, the combination of World War II service and G. I. benefits had substantial positive effects on collegiate attainment, with a gain of about 0.3 years of college and an increase in college completion of about 5 percentage points. For black men, however, the results were decidedly different for those born in the southern states versus those born elsewhere. The combination of World War II service and the availability of G.I. benefits led to an increase in educational attainment of about 0.4 years of college for black men born outside the South, while there were few gains in collegiate attainment among black men from the South.

Limited collegiate opportunities for blacks from the South decreased the effect of the G.I. Bill for this group and help to explain why this group did not share the same gains in collegiate attainment as whites and blacks in the North. At the conclusion of World War II, blacks wanting to attend college in the South were restricted in their choices to about 100 public and private institutions. Few of the post-secondary institutions for blacks offered education beyond the baccalaureate and more than a quarter of these institutions were junior colleges, with the highest degree below the B.A. Small in scale and lagging in resources per student, the historically black colleges in the South were ill-prepared to accommodate the rise in demand from returning veterans. What is more, access to information about veterans' benefits and advising services may have differed with racial groups, and the lack of black counselors was particularly marked in the deep South, with only about a dozen black counselors for all of Georgia and Alabama and none in Mississippi. While the G.I. Bill also covered non-collegiate vocational and technical training, the authors find that among black veterans born in the South vocational and technical training was not a substitute for collegiate participation.

The authors conclude that the availability of benefits to black veterans had a substantial and positive impact on their educational attainment outside the South. However, for those black veterans more likely to be limited to the South in their collegiate choices, the G.I. Bill exacerbated rather than narrowed the economic and educational differences between blacks and whites.

http://www.demos.org/blog/11/11/13/how-gi-bill-left-out-african-americans

Research shows there are all sorts of positive outcomes associated with households owning assets. And for that reason, the huge racial wealth gap in America should be deeply alarming -- especially given how that gap has actually grown in the past five years due to an epidemic of foreclosures in communities of color, many of which were systematically targeted by predatory lenders, including respected banks like Wells Fargo.

There are lots of reasons that whites have so much more wealth than nonwhites. How the GI Bill played out is one of those reasons. Whites were able to use the government guaranteed housing loans that were a pillar of the bill to buy homes in the fast growing suburbs. Those homes subsequently rose greatly in value in coming decades, creating vast new household wealth for whites during the postwar era.


This was after a very quick google search and is just the first few hits.

Edit - adding one more! http://www.timwise.org/2000/07/bill-of-whites-historical-memory-through-the-racial-looking-glass/

For blacks returning from military service, discrimination in employment was still allowed to trump their “right” to utilize GI Bill benefits. An upsurge of racist violence against black workers after the war, when labor markets began to tighten again, prevented African-American soldiers from taking advantage of this supposedly universal program for re-adjustment to civilian life. And although 43 percent of returning black soldiers expressed a desire to enroll in school, their ability to do so was severely hampered by ongoing segregation in higher education: none of which the GI Bill did anything to reverse or prohibit. Especially in the South, where segregation was most severe, opportunities for blacks to take advantage of the educational component of the bill were harshly curtailed. Largely restricted to historically black colleges and universities with limited openings for enrollment, nearly as many black veterans were blocked from college access as gained access.

And finally, during World War II in particular, black soldiers often served under openly racist white officers, many of whom issued undeserved dishonorable discharges to blacks in uniform, thereby denying them the benefits of the GI Bill. Black soldiers, on average, received nearly twice the percentage of dishonorable discharges as white soldiers. And even those discharged honorably had to confront another formidable obstacle: the US Employment Service, responsible for job placements. As author and Professor Karen Brodkin has noted, the USES provided little assistance to black veterans, especially in the South, and most jobs they helped blacks find were in low-paying, menial positions. In San Francisco after the war, and even with the GI Bill to assist them, the employment status of Blacks dropped to half their pre-war status. In Arkansas, 95 percent of placements for African American vets were as unskilled labor.

So too, with the VA and FHA loan programs for housing, both of which utilized racially-restrictive underwriting criteria, thereby assuring that hardly any of the $120 billion in housing equity loaned from the late forties to the early sixties through the programs would go to families of color. These loans helped finance over half of all suburban housing construction in the country during this period, less than two percent of which ended up being lived in by non-whites.

[geek tragedy]

10. Awesome post. Thanks. nt

[Recursion]

26. Careful: Katznelson apparently draws a lot of hate on DU

As I found out.

[gollygee]

36. Well then they can read the other articles

or check more on Google. The facts are still facts whether they like one of the people saying them or not.

[1939]

15. A lot of the AFofL trade unions

weren't racist per se, but their apprenticeship programs disadvantaged blacks because you were nominated for the apprentice program by current members and every current member had a son, nephew, younger brother, neighbor, drinking buddy, etc that he would bring in.

[1StrongBlackMan]

58. Please link to the source of your (mis)information. n/t

[Baitball Blogger]

7. Just wanted to add, that if you want to find a racist agenda you'll probably find it

Last edited Mon Jun 1, 2015, 07:14 PM - Edit history (1)

in a "suburb with restricted covenants". So the current times aren't a cup of tea either. If you manage to buy a house in their communities you will pay dearly for it and we could use some enlightened help from our progressive candidates to fix the problems.

The symptoms of racism are alive and well in the suburbs. Here are some of the signs to look for:

1) Is there a strong clique or two forming in the neighborhood?

2) Is there already a history that shows how the people in these cliques will work together to pass on misinformation that will support their improper agendas, at the same time that they discredit the minority homeowner's position?

3) Does the HOA turn a blind eye when cronies breach covenants that specifically encroach on the rights of the minority resident in the community?

4) When the minority resident appeals to the HOA, do they hold a meeting without inviting you to discuss the issue? Afterwards, do they invite the minority resident to the board meeting to hear their final decision when you know that on the board is one of the members that encroached on your rights and the decision has already been squared with the other residents?

5) Despite that it's evidence of selective enforcement: When you're out working in the yard do people come back to watch what you're doing to make sure you aren't building anything that will encroach on their buddy's property rights, even though they passed on a chance to stop the neighbor from encroaching on your rights?

6) And the most beautiful example of racism: Given the comprehensive list of indifference or hostility they have subjected you to over the years, do they suddenly find their sweet face and approach you just to ask you if you're ready to sell your house? It's like they're checking to see if you've had enough.

Yeah, they absolutely know that they're giving you a hard time, and they don't have a sincere friendship to offer you because they know the end game is to push the undesirable out of their insular societies.

I think it's time to expand our knowledge of racism, since making it to the suburbs isn't the reward that everyone has led us to believe.

[bklyncowgirl]

9. Are economic populists trying to go back to the worst aspects of the 50s? I think not.

No one on the left wants to put blacks in the back of the bus, women back in the in the kitchen or gays in the closet. I do agree that a back to the 50s campaign would leave out a lot of people, so would a campaign based solely on the concerns of minority groups. We can do both. What would be a winning combination would be one that focused on economic opportunity, fairness and innovation. Big ideas, something we've sort of sworn off these days.

[geek tragedy]

11. The point being that white progressives

need to be more proactive in outreach in terms of speaking in language that the Obama coalition understands.

Hillary gets the importance of this. That doesn't make her a better policy ally, just means she gets the political reality. She did not get it in 2008.

[bklyncowgirl]

12. l agree, but the trick is to do this without turning off too many working and middle class whites.

It's going to take a grand coalition. I also believe it can be done. There has to be something for everyone.

[hifiguy]

45. A friend of mine in law school, who was a consummate sum of privilege

(Porsche for a graduating from his private high school, four years at Amherst on his parents' dime) said to me during the 1988 primaries, when Jesse Jackson was running, that if poor and working class whites ever stopped to realize how much they have in common with poor and working class African-Americans, no republicans would be elected for fifty years or maybe a hundred.

For all his wealth, he was for confiscatory estate taxation of piles of money as opposed to ongoing, legit family farms and businesses. He thought large transfers of cash should be taxed like lottery winnings "because that is what they are."

[bklyncowgirl]

79. Frederick Douglass said the same things about free Blacks and Irish immigrants back in the 1850s.

Divide and conquer has been going on for a long, long time.

[KingCharlemagne]

80. "Workers of the world unite! You have nothinig to lose but your chains. You have

a world to win." ~Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels (1848)

[1StrongBlackMan]

90. Reference please ...

I have read, at one time or another, just about everything Douglass has written ... though, I know Frederick Douglass had spent months in Ireland, I do not recall him saying that.

[1StrongBlackMan]

89. The concern that I/we have with the economic populist "looking back, going forward" ...

campaign, as it seems to be shaping up is not that we think the left wants to put blacks in the back of the bus, women back in the in the kitchen or gays in the closet; but rather, the prescription for blacks BEING in the back of the bus, and/or women BEING in the kitchen or BEING gays in the closet, i.e., "economic justice" is not suited to cure/address the condition.

[BumRushDaShow]

13. Love me some Joan

The fantasy "golden age" included this -

<...>

The last episode, ''The House We Live In,'' examines how those erroneous views have left some racial groups at an economic disadvantage, particularly in housing, while accruing visible benefits to whites, which the filmmakers call the ''unmarked race.'' This episode traces the legal, financial, and social values that have defined the racial divide, from European immigration in the early 20th century to the post-World War II housing boom, typified by Roosevelt and Levittown, in Nassau County.

<...>

Bernice and Eugene Burnett tried over the winter of 1949-50 to buy a house in Levittown, they tell the camera. Mr. Burnett was one of nearly a million black soldiers eligible for a federally guaranteed mortgage under the G.I. Bill of Rights, but precluded by housing discrimination from enjoying that benefit. He recalls being impressed by the tract houses sprouting on a former potato field and a salesman's response to his inquiry about buying one: ''It's not me, but the owners of this development have not as yet decided to sell these homes to Negroes.''

The Levitt family never did decide to sell to blacks, and as a result, Levittown remains ''95 to 98 percent white,'' said John A. Juliano, a real estate broker. Interviewed by telephone, Mr. Juliano added: ''It wasn't just Levitt. The federal government condoned it, and it set a precedent there that's lasted a long time.''

<...>

From 1934 to 1962, less than 2 percent of the $120 billion in housing financing underwritten by the government went to minorities, while today, the net worth of the average black family is one-eighth that of its white counterpart, the film says.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/11/nyregion/memories-of-segregation-in-levittown.html

And all one has to do is look at the more recent issue of the Pigford and Pigford II setllements for black farmers, where jackass Coburn managed to block the settlement payout that had been approved by the courts and the USDA one final time for bullshit reasons - in essence, de facto racism. I actually watched that session when they were ready for a unanimous consent and he halted it. It finally breached that hurdle and was signed into law in December of that year after a year of back and forths and farm biggest advocate John Boyd, leading protests in D.C.

[Number23]

20. Before they left, there were black posters here who talked about how they had land that was straight

up stolen from them by white people with the help of the local (racist) government.

That was land that people could have passed onto their children and their grandchildren. That was land that could be worth who knows what now and could have been used to build who knows what.

This is racism's impact on this country and it happened in so many places.

[Baitball Blogger]

39. I hear you.

Someday we'll all understand how intricately connected city governments are to their shakers and movers. So, if you find racists inside the group, the city government's purpose will be tainted.

[1StrongBlackMan]

65. That would be MY family. n/t

[Number23]

14. When black people say these things, we are "manufacturing outrage" and "calling Sanders a racist"

or so the numbskulls who then scream and beat their fists when they see Hillary's high support in minority communities say.

So I'm glad that Joan Walsh, a white person, took the time to explain it so that these people could understand it without being "injured" by the very sight of this conversation which apparently pains them so very, very much.

Increasingly, though, black and other scholars are showing us that racial disadvantage won’t be undone without paying attention to, and talking about, race. The experience of black poverty is different in some ways than that of white poverty; it’s more likely to be intergenerational, for one thing, as well as being the result of discriminatory public and private policies.

Thank God there are places on the Internet where these intelligent REALITY-BASED conversations can still be had. K&R

[uponit7771]

16. +1

[Cha]

32. Nancy LeTourneau is saying basically the same, 23..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11077859

Those who accuse people of calling Bernie a racist simply because they are asking questions about his stance on the uber important racial issues of our time, are only hurting themselves and their campaign to get Bernie in the White House.

I can only imagine how Black people feel about having their concerns dismissed by charges of "you're calling Bernie a Racist!".. This Scottish lass is pissed! I see exactly how they like to play the victim card based on fantasy.

[Baitball Blogger]

40. If they will only stop and listen.

Their message can only improve to more effectively reach out to minorities, if they will only listen.

I think the resistance to the message is the result of years of relying on the same strategy, toning down conversations that appealed to minorities in order to reach out to the white, Southern voters.

Democrats took the black vote for granted for too long. And now, with the Latin American and Asian-American votes counting for something in this country, it would be foolish to continue that strategy since the minority vote can win elections.

[Cha]

51. Yes, "stop and listen" would be a great strategy when running for Pres. Imagine Bernie feels

that way.. just not his supporters on DU.

[Number23]

43. This web site has been hostile to black opinions for a long time. NONE of this shit is new

NOT ONE of the folks that dived head long over the cliff with the "manufactured outrage" and "Stop calling Bernie a racist" crap or running to high five and rec these genuinely stupid, hostile, ignorant, wildly counterproductive and unhelpful OPs and posts were a surprise.

And in a few months/a year/whenever these same folks post their posts and OPs about how much they care about black people, how worried they are for our communities, this is why so many of us just silently give them the finger and move on.

[Cha]

52. "NOT ONE of the folks that dived head long over the cliff with the "manufactured outrage" and "Stop

calling Bernie a racist" crap or running to high five and rec these genuinely stupid, hostile, ignorant, wildly counterproductive and unhelpful OPs and posts were a surprise."

No, not a "surprise".. predictable.. Lemmings Unite!

I can imagine you're not too happy about the hypocrisy.. it's mind boggling. It's like their rage du jour lives in a vacuum and they have no clue what that shows about them and how they're hurting their credibility. It's only about the ragebaits and recs.. Reality be damned!

[ismnotwasm]

86. Yes indeed.

[cyberswede]

17. Good article.

Thanks for posting it.

[Cheese Sandwich]

19. Some things were better in the 1950s, like tax rates. We have to be able to say that.

If assholes are going to spin it to mean we want to reinstate segregation, then the problem is with those assholes.

[geek tragedy]

21. Whoosh. nt

[1StrongBlackMan]

68. Yeah ... whoosh! A simple shame; but not unexpected. n/t

[The2ndWheel]

22. Not going back to the 50's culturally, or economically

It was a different world for both. Americans, in general, in relation to the rest of the world are what white males are to the US; not as needed as they used to be.

[One_Life_To_Give]

23. al la carte

Iron Lungs, Segregation, Gendered Payscales, there is no shortage of Bad things associated with the recent past. But it should also be recognized that there are some individual items from the time period that we might want to pick up and bring back. The Ratio of CEO Pay to Avg. Employee Pay being one of them.

[AgingAmerican]

24. 1950s - 1980

You left out a few decades.

[redgreenandblue]

25. What I don't get is how Hillary Clinton is supposed to be better.

That *is* the point of this whole discussion isn't it?

Hillary Clinton is now the champion of women, ethnic minorities, the LGBT community and the poor, while Sanders and Warren speak only to college-educated white male out-of-touch latte libruls.

I remember her standing on the back of a pick-up truck in 2008 praising "hard working (wink wink) Americans".

[geek tragedy]

33. Point is not that she is any nobler or

more committed to justice.

She understands the politics of building a coalition better.

Policy isn't enough.

[Warren DeMontague]

27. I've never heard ANYONE- except members of the religious right- say things were awesome in the 50s.

I don't understand how anyone can take "shit, repealing glass-steagal was a crap move" and hear "boy, things were great when we had sock hops and whites-only soda fountains"

[geek tragedy]

34. You've missed the past 6 years of

"why can't the party be like it was under FDR, Truman, Kennedy and LBJ?"

Or, for that matter, people claiming Richard fucking Milhous Nixon had liberal credentials superior to those of Obama?

Shit, we've had people defend FDR's concentration camps and complicity with segregation because, well, it was FDR.

A massive portion of this site is living in the past--self-described "FDR Democrats" none of whom actually voted for FDR, because he died before most were born.

[Warren DeMontague]

50. I hear you, and on some of it i agree.

I mean, for his flaws, FDR was a giant of a President, AND he pulled us out of the great depression- probably not surprising that his legacy would come up after the economic clusterfuck this country endured at the end of the Bush II years.

That said, there have been significant changes to the world, economic as well as cultural and not the least of which technological, and to expect that somehow we will go back to the highly unionized manufacturing economy of the postwar era- which, as you rightly mention, benefitted some while leaving others, particularly minorities, behind- is facile.

But, then, DU skews old -- and cranky. It's equally facile for people here to expect that somehow their "oversexed culture in crisis" griping is going to get teens to stop twerking, or HBO to stop showing full frontal nudity. It's facile on the international stage for people to expect that somehow the State of Israel is going to fold up and disappear.

We are in the 21st century, like it or not. Deep denial isnt limited to fans of FDR and the new deal.

[geek tragedy]

56. I think advocating ideas that have been proven to work

is always a good idea. At the same time, gotta bring something new to the table besides that old time religion.

[Warren DeMontague]

69. like the song says, you can't go back, and you can't stand still.

I think the debates will be illustrative. I also think that while your points around outreach, etc. are valid, I also think that outside of some rarefied highly-steeped-in-politics environments (like DU) a lot of people aren't paying a ton of attention, and inasmuch as they are, the high name recognition of, say, Hillary Clinton is probably paying off.

When the candidates start coming up with concrete policy proposals, the rubber will meet the road.

[CTBlueboy]

28. blacklivesmatter

You wanna know how young black people are feeling about 2016 get down to a rally.
Groups like Dreamdefenders or NYjusticeleague or people like Deray and Netta are on the front lines battling a system that has failed me and other young blacks down.

During the debates I truly hope someone ask each candidates

1. What are you as president going to do with the disproportionate killing of black people in US

2. What are your stance on Private Prisons ?

3. How are they going to help reduced the number of African Americans out of work

There is no more giving our votes out, we are an important voting block and our issues must be heard.

[Number23]

29. +a million.

[geek tragedy]

35. It shouldn't have to wait until the debates.

Giving the right canned answer at a primary debate isn't enough.

[bravenak]

37. Exactly!

[Baitball Blogger]

41. Spot on.

[Starry Messenger]

59. +1 million

[McCamy Taylor]

30. Anyone who did not bail on the GOP by 1972, fails the racial awareness test.

I love Warren, but what was wrong with her? Did she feel nothing when she watched Black children being hosed down in Alabama? Did not she cry when MLK Jr was killed? Did not she feel pride over the Voting Rights Act? Did not she cringe when Nixon and Buchanan launched their "southern strategy" to pull conservative/racist Democrats into the GOP? Certainly by 1972, it must have been clear that the GOP had become the party of entrenched racism.

If she could live her life blissfully unaware of what was being done to African-Americans, blissfully unconcerned that she was receiving all sorts of privilege because she was white in a country that oppressed Blacks---well, let's just say that she had a convenient myopia.

[Baitball Blogger]

42. Not that it matters since she isn't running for the presidency,

but, I would like to hear her respond and let us know if she picked up a second sight in regards to the issues you bring up.

[1StrongBlackMan]

71. I don't hold that republican membership against Warren or anyone that has awaken ...

so long as they have completely awaken. But, based on her economic primacy, with barely a nod to race, suggests she has not.

[madville]

94. You should work on the examples and timeline

Do you mean back in 1960s Alabama when a Democratic Governor was oppressing black people she should have wanted to switch to the Democratic Party? Or when an assassin who had worked on that same Democratic Governor's presidential campaign killed MLK? Or back then when about 80-90% of Republican House and Senate members supported the Voting and Civil Rights Acts while only about 60% of Democrats did?

In the era you are citing, Republicans exhibited more support for voting and civil rights as a whole than Democrats.

How would anyone back in that time frame "know" what the parties would become 10, 20, or 30 years down the road? That's a ridiculous expectation to lay on Warren based on your examples.

[Cha]

31. "But the golden age wasn’t golden for people who weren’t white.."

"Yes, African American incomes rose and unemployment declined in those years. But black people were locked out of many of the wealth-generating opportunities of the era: blocked from suburbs with restricted covenants and redlined into neighborhoods where banks wouldn’t lend; left out by the GI Bill, which didn’t prevent racial discrimination; neglected by labor unions, which discriminated against or outright blocked black members. (That’s why I gave my book, “What’s the Matter with White People?”, the subtitle “Why We Long for a Golden Age that Never Was.”)"

snip//

"And American politics today requires that they be corrected: no Democrat can win the presidency without consolidating the Obama coalition, particularly the African American vote."

That's what I've been saying repeatedly! Obama is a popular President.. I don't care that the majority on DU doesn't know or care.

"A Tidal Wave Of Good News In Iowa: Hillary Clinton Soaring and Obama Beloved by Democrats"

snip//

Starting off with asking likely Democratic caucus-goers to rate their feelings from very favorable, mostly favorable, mostly unfavorable, or very unfavorable about prominent Democrats, President Obama topped the list of 89% favorable to 9% unfavorable.

http://www.politicususa.com/2015/06/01/good-news-poll-obama-beloved-iowa-dems-hillary-clinton-soaring.html

The President hasn't rejected all "race specific solutions".. but too many people don't even know about this from the President..

"My Brother's Keeper" Feb 27, 2014



Youth Guidance: President Obama Invites BAM Program Back To The White House

President Obama has invited Youth Guidance’s Becoming a Man (B.A.M.) program back to Washington D.C. to kick off a new White House initiative called “My Brother’s Keeper.” Three B.A.M. students from Hyde Park High School, along with B.A.M. Lead Supervisor, Marshaun Bacon, and Youth Guidance Board Member, Stuart Taylor, will visit the White House Thursday and Friday. The President’s initiative will support young male minorities by bringing foundations and companies together to find ways to keep young men in school and out of the criminal justice system.

http://www.youth-guidance.org/president-obama-invites-bam-program-back-white-house/

"Yahoo: Obama Embraces A Lifelong Cause: Helping Minority Boys Succeed"

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-embraces-a-lifelong-cause--helping-minority-boys-succeed-164019997.html

President Obama speaks at the launch of the My Brother’s Keeper Alliance May 4, 2015

And, that's what he's said he's going to do when he leaves office, too..

"Obama’s Retirement Plan: Help Black Kids"

After he leaves the White House, friends say the president will return to his passion: helping African Americans through his My Brother's Keeper Alliance.

What is in Barack Obama’s heart? Underneath that cool exterior, it can be hard to tell. When he leaves office in 2017, he will be a fit 55-year-old with decades of productive life likely ahead of him. How will he use them?

I went to the Bronx on Monday with a hunch that Obama was about to tell us; and I wasn’t disappointed.

MOre~
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/05/05/how-obama-will-spend-the-rest-of-his-life.html

Mahalo for your thread, geek.

[TheKentuckian]

38. Reaganomics and deregulation aren't good policy because they happened after the civil rights act

Do people seriously believe that these policies only come with loss of access for minorities or some such thing.

I'm not getting this seeming suggestion that say if Glass-Stegall were in place black folks would be worse off.

I don't recall any calls for sockhops, switchblade knives, bobbiesox, crooners, a war in Korea, the Cold War.

I figure one can love the Marx Brothers films and not be plotting to bring back Jim Crow.

There is simply no campaign on how awesome things were in the 50's but rather one to attempt to turn the most disenfranchised from the policies and politicians most likely to give them a hand up out of the worst of the shit rather than to keep piling on driving us deeper into the muck.

My grandfather loved his pension, Social Security, VA, and FDR. I think his deal was desirable and good policy too so I'll continue to believe in retaining the good while casting out the bad from any time.

If you don't think our best today are going to get rolleyeyes and be graded on a curve based on the context of our time then I think you are probably delusional

I defy you to tell me how real people's lives, minorities and women especially aren't better off with the policies progressives/liberals/D.F.H. champion than the "centrist" bullshit policies.

[Jefferson23]

46. The consenus is that Obama has not addressed these issues, as his approach was not specific to

criminal justice reform/corruption? Did I understand her correctly and is she basing this on
polls from the black community and or the progressive black caucus? Holder did present a solid
account in their report which I found to be encouraging to lay the foundation for civil suits against
the blatant racism and use of force etc...it was a good beginning on the federal level but clearly
more needs to be done.

The author has relied her critique on the campaign launch of Bernie Sanders, and mentions his civil rights record
of the past.

She is either unaware or decided it was not relevant to discuss his record on incarceration and education,
immigration, that surpasses Clinton's. I would think most people interested in his record have read it.

Sanders launched a campaign which no doubt, has a central theme, corruption in politics via money. He also
has been campaigning for about two weeks and his record reflects he has not ever relied solely on economic
equality to relieve racial inequality...that is a fact. In addition he is the only Senate member of the progressive
congressional caucus.

A couple of thoughts, no Democrat running for POTUS should be ignoring BlackLivesMatter. If that continues it
seems to indicate a lack of willingness to confront the police unions, on the local and state level this is a big
problem. It is a union like no other and the corruption is off the charts..I am not sure it is a coincidence no
candidate to my knowledge is speaking about that issue. It is up to all Democrats to make sure no racial issue is
left to chance.

[geek tragedy]

60. If this election were strictly about who has the best voting record, Bernie would be the

one sitting at 50+%. But, there's gotta be the ability to connect with voters.


Holder said a lot of things about race that Obama couldn't. We need the next president to say them.

[Jefferson23]

67. Give it time. n/t

[Cha]

81. The Pres hasn't rejected all "race specific solutions", Jefferson.. from my previous post to the OP

The President hasn't rejected all "race specific solutions".. but too many people don't even know about this from Obama..

"My Brother's Keeper" Feb 27, 2014



Youth Guidance: President Obama Invites BAM Program Back To The White House

President Obama has invited Youth Guidance’s Becoming a Man (B.A.M.) program back to Washington D.C. to kick off a new White House initiative called “My Brother’s Keeper.” Three B.A.M. students from Hyde Park High School, along with B.A.M. Lead Supervisor, Marshaun Bacon, and Youth Guidance Board Member, Stuart Taylor, will visit the White House Thursday and Friday. The President’s initiative will support young male minorities by bringing foundations and companies together to find ways to keep young men in school and out of the criminal justice system.

http://www.youth-guidance.org/president-obama-invites-bam-program-back-white-house/

"Yahoo: Obama Embraces A Lifelong Cause: Helping Minority Boys Succeed"

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-embraces-a-lifelong-cause--helping-minority-boys-succeed-164019997.html

President Obama speaks at the launch of the My Brother’s Keeper Alliance May 4, 2015

And, that's what he's said he's going to do when he leaves office, too..

"Obama’s Retirement Plan: Help Black Kids"

After he leaves the White House, friends say the president will return to his passion: helping African Americans through his My Brother's Keeper Alliance.

What is in Barack Obama’s heart? Underneath that cool exterior, it can be hard to tell. When he leaves office in 2017, he will be a fit 55-year-old with decades of productive life likely ahead of him. How will he use them?

I went to the Bronx on Monday with a hunch that Obama was about to tell us; and I wasn’t disappointed.

MOre~
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/05/05/how-obama-will-spend-the-rest-of-his-life.html

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6766269

[Jefferson23]

84. The OP is what I am referring to, Cha..and good morning. Here she lends her opinion

about Obama on the issue, there is no reference to all by her..or maybe I missed something
but that was not my impression.

**Ironically, our first black president has exhausted the patience of many African Americans with promises that a rising economic justice tide will lift their boats. President Obama himself has rejected race-specific solutions to the problems of black poverty, arguing that policies like universal preschool, a higher minimum wage, stronger family supports and infrastructure investment, along with the Affordable Care Act, all disproportionately help black people, since black people are disproportionately poor.

At the Progressive Agenda event last month, I heard activists complain that they’d been told the same thing: the agenda will disproportionately benefit black people, because they’re disproportionately disadvantaged, even if it didn’t specifically address the core issue of criminal justice reform. (De Blasio later promised the agenda would include that issue.) But six years of hearing that from a black president has exhausted people’s patience, and white progressives aren’t going to be able to get away with it anymore.**

I appreciate your links, and I can't speak for the author, but I imagine she recognizes
Obama's efforts/accomplishments too. However, she is suggesting, and why I asked,
there is a degree, a consensus among the black community that Obama has a similar
reliance..based on her accounts from activists. Is there more to do, of course, who,
is best placed to do that going forward, she is saying Sanders needs to convey a
message that speaks directly to the injustice and not in a general way to the black
community. That is my take on the OP.

[Bonobo]

47. Sometimes I wonder if I am in an alternate universe...

A universe where Hillary Clinton did NOT piss off just about every black person with her racist fucking 2008 campaign.

Do we need to create a "list"?

[Nye Bevan]

48. 87% of African Americans view Hillary Clinton favorably

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026706470

[Bonobo]

49. Yeah, and if I thought that that bland descriptor was an accurate gauge, I would agree.

But I don't.

"Favorably" can mean a lot of things. "Favorably" as compared to what? George Bush? Hitler?

My point here is that people are being disingenuous if they are pretending that Hillary didn't create a lot of resentment among black people.

And that feeling still exists among many.

No point in denying it.

[bravenak]

55. True.

But you gotta admit, black folks are very forgiving. Many have forgiven her, or at least compartmentalized it. Then there are others like me who will never forget or forgive. Especially since she never apologizes or seems to think she did anything wrong.

[Bonobo]

63. I do admit it.

I am just bumping slightly up against the re-writing of history that SOME are doing vis a vis Ms. Clinton's relations to the black community.

It ain't all sunshine.

[bravenak]

64. It sure ain't.

[1StrongBlackMan]

73. I would say compartmentalized it ...

but that is a survival technique that keeps the lid on ... until all the compartments are full. It seems our youngins' (that would be you ) have smaller/fewer compartments to fill.

[bravenak]

74. That is also true.

You guys have seen it many times.

[geek tragedy]

57. If black folks wrote off every white person who showed gross

insensitivity on race . . .

[Bonobo]

61. I'm not saying they "wrote her off" but...

I am pointing out that there IS some collective lack of memory about Ms. Clinton's relations to the black community going on here.

[geek tragedy]

66. 2008 definitely strained relations, but this is someone who's been in the public

eye for decades and who's been building a public record over that time.

And a lot of that shit was Bill. Hillary had only one really awful moment herself--though it was spectacularly awful.

[JI7]

77. there is no lack of memory, it's brought up by the black community all the time

but people aren't going to forget decades of a positive relationship and dismiss efforts made afterwards .

[1StrongBlackMan]

72. Did you NOT read the part about her efforts to repair that damage? ...

Or, are you living your past for me and the other 87% of African-Americans that have gotten past it?

[Bonobo]

75. I won't rise to your bait there.

There is nothing untrue in anything I have said.

[1StrongBlackMan]

78. Of course there isn't ...

Of course you know better how and what the Black community (at large) should think and act, better than the Black people that tell you how and what we think.

But that is not usual to the Black experience ...(possibly) straight, white (Christian), males pitting the 13% against the 87%, to "prove" themselves right ... Just as the gop and teaparty uses ben carson.

[Bonobo]

82. Won't rise to that bait either, mister man.

Try some other fool.

[Number23]

87. Yep. That tactic is as old as the hills. And it certainly helps when some of the folks in that 13%

are Eager Beaver as all hell to be the most useful of tools in sowing this fake division.

[1StrongBlackMan]

88. Have you seen this? ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1016&pid=123742

[1StrongBlackMan]

91. Okay. Let's try ...

2007-8 was 2007-8, now is now. In 2015, 87% of African-Americans HAVE SAID/ARE SAYING they hold a favorable opinion of HRC.

Perhaps another term for the alternate universe you find yourself in could be called "the past."

[Bonobo]

96. There are POC on THIS site that still consider it an issue.

So you mind if I remind people that the race conversation about "Progressives" really needs to include Hillary and her recent issues of racial ugliness?

[1StrongBlackMan]

98. Yes. That's why the favorability numbers ar 87%/13% ...

rather than, 100%. Like all communities, the Black community is not monolithic, there are statistical generalizations that can be

So you mind if I remind people that the race conversation about "Progressives" really needs to include Hillary and her recent issues of racial ugliness?

What recent racial ugliness?

[Bonobo]

99. 2008 is recent to me.

And if you are the age I think you are, it kinda is to you as well.

For a woman of Hillary's age in particular, 7 years does not a serious difference make.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

53. Some people are going to be shocked when this campaign goes south and west

Some people are going to be shocked when this primary campaign goes south and west if there still is one by then and some more aware people won't.

[1StrongBlackMan]

54. Joan Walsh has been reading from the AA Group of DU! ...

Last edited Tue Jun 2, 2015, 11:42 PM - Edit history (1)

Down to the "No, this is NOT saying you are a racist" and "the Golden Age of America wasn't Golden for PoC (and the LGBT community).



Thank you for posting this. Maybe, someone will hear it.

[CANDO]

92. Here's something I don't undertsand?

Why do people assign meaning to something that isn't there? I cannot fathom a white progressive pining for the good old days of FDR "AND" meaning that it be just as exclusive for POC/LGBT, etc as it was in so many respects. When I pine for the Democrats to be more like FDR Dems....never in my wildest imagination do I intend that to be how you and others are taking it. That is just so f'ing insulting at the very get go. I voted for PBO twice, and would gladly do so again if it were allowed. What isn't ever acknowledged by anyone....PBO would never have been elected without his ENTIRE coalition...meaning also including his rather sizable percentage of the white vote. Take away any demographic of said coalition and you have no PBO. These threads are infuriating because they assign wrongful intent to other people's words.

[1StrongBlackMan]

93. Well ...

Why do people assign meaning to something that isn't there?

I would suggest that it is "not there" to you, because it is not a part of your experience.

I cannot fathom a white progressive pining for the good old days of FDR "AND" meaning that it be just as exclusive for POC/LGBT, etc as it was in so many respects.

Do you think those pining for the good old days of FDR are giving any consideration to PoC/LGBT, etc., at all in their rememberances, of that era? That is the point that is being made.

Let me give you a (maybe extreme) explain: imagine someone pining for 1922 Italy, when the trains ran on time ... it would not be difficult to understand that someone involved in labor in 1920s Italy would have a very different take 1920s Italy, despite the fact that the trains ran on time. Que, no?

When I pine for the Democrats to be more like FDR Dems....never in my wildest imagination do I intend that to be how you and others are taking it.

Can you honestly say that you give any thought to PoC/LGBT when you think of FDR Democrats? Those 1940s FDR Democrats were heavily, heavily tied to the klan. So while, much was accomplished in terms of economics "for everyone", those policies were developed and implemented in a racially discriminatory manner.

That is just so f'ing insulting at the very get go.

So is admiring the Coliseum lions, without acknowledging the the Christians and others, had a very different experience.

I voted for PBO twice, and would gladly do so again if it were allowed. What isn't ever acknowledged by anyone.

Thank you. Acknowledged. Now will you take a moment to try and see the good old days through different eyes?

These threads are infuriating because they assign wrongful intent to other people's words.

That is the POINT ... no one is assigning, or accusing, anyone of wrongful intent ... just romantic blindness!

[CANDO]

95. Let me try again...

Me personally...I was born in 1964. All I know of times before that are whatever policies I've learned about such as the New Deal, SS, various labor laws benefiting the existence of a middle class, etc. When I yearn for policies of the past which proved successful, it is not meant by me to be a slight toward anyone. And I'm befuddled why others insist that I and others mean it that way. Because we don't! I think there's a ton of preaching to the choir here. There are people who have a message perfectly crafted for right wing teabagger types who direct their message and ire at those allies who do get it here on the left. And then when we get tired of the browbeating, we are then accused of not getting it or not seeing it from another viewpoint. Hello. We are and do view it from other perspectives. We do get it. We do want policies put in place to correct historical injustices. But again...why not direct your message and angst where it belongs...at and toward those on the right?

[1StrongBlackMan]

97. Let ME try again ...

I was born in 1961. All I know of times before that are whatever policies I've learned about such as the New Deal, SS, various labor laws benefiting the existence of a middle class, etc. ... well, not really, I have read a lot about the programs and learned that Yes, they benefited the white middle class, while largely locking out/offering less to black folks, that remain a proximate cause of the present day wealth disparity between Black and white folks. So our memories, and continuing effects, of that golden age are vastly different.

When I yearn for policies of the past which proved successful, it is not meant by me to be a slight toward anyone.

Yes, those policies proved successful in creating, while lifting up much of America, lifted some more than others ... do you not see why that would be a problem for those "lifted less"? ... why we would not yearn for programs that were denied to us? And, sorry to say, your refusal to see/acknowledge that IS, in fact, a slight, whether intended or not.

And I'm befuddled why others insist that I and others mean it that way. Because we don't! ...And then when we get tired of the browbeating, we are then accused of not getting it or not seeing it from another viewpoint.

You trumpet the success of the programs and harken back to such a day ... I tell you those programs you herald did not include me, so I am less than enthralled with those programs, or those that enacted them ... You assist you did not intend my exclusion, the herald those programs, no the less ... and you wonder why people "browbeat you and/or claim you don't get it or are not seeing it from another viewpoint? I suggest it's because you DON'T.

Hello. We are and do view it from other perspectives. We do get it. We do want policies put in place to correct historical injustices.

Hello ... the programs you herald, LOCKED into place those historical injustices.

But again...why not direct your message and angst where it belongs...at and toward those on the right?

Oh ... I have plenty for the right ... I only talk with the good old days left because I hope to open their eyes how their pining comes across.

[Bluenorthwest]

62. Warren was a Republican for 30 years. She is very much not my cup of tea due to her reluctance

to repudiate the racist, homophobic, anti choice Party of financial piracy clearly and in detail. She remained in that Party far, far too long and got way too rich doing things her boosters pretend are alien to her. A person who keeps their gain does not believe it to be ill gotten.
Warren talks about her childhood in part to avoid speaking of her adult life in detail, the sources of her wealth, the nature of her politics or for that matter, the way she treats her own co-workers, which is not in any way egalitarian. In an actual election she'd look worse everyday because her image is a newly crafted thing with foundations of sand.
Sanders is a different story and he's been a champion of everybody's civil rights his entire life, probably in part because he himself is a minority person. A glance at his Congressional life shows strong, enduring involvement with African American members of Congress and their issues, his life prior to Congress is full of examples of Bernie being on the side of everybody's equality. He's not going to have a problem communicating his feelings on any of that.

Big mistake to equate Warren and Sanders. Sanders was founding the Progressive Caucus along with Maxine Waters and Ron Dellums when Liz Warren was counting another million and voting for another Bush. Not even close to the same person.

[geek tragedy]

70. I hear you on that.

And, Bernie's credentials on advocating for justice for all are transecendentally good (which is one big reason I'm voting for him in the primary).

But Bernie's got to be able to reach voters who've never heard of him. Not a matter of fairness but of winning votes.

[Warpy]

76. Everybody who had a job on the books got paid better in the 1950s

including the bottom of the heap black folks who did the worst jobs with the least security and the most daily humiliation.

What they didn't have to face is a bogus war on drugs used as an excuse first to jail so many of their sons and now to shoot them. Now damned few can boast a living wage and they still do the worst jobs, although there has been some mobility, I'm delighted to say.

The only thing better about the 1950s was the pay. If you were a white male, you didn't have to work too hard to be a success compared to everybody else. The rest of us were segregated and ghettoized into certain occupations that paid poorly and had nowhere to advance, although the poor pay was relative and still allowed us to feed ourselves if we were careful.

The rest of what was going on in the 50s outside the paycheck was pretty awful and I don't think too many people who lived through it would want to repeat it. Most of the people who want to go back there were born later and only know the 50s from "Leave it to Beaver" reruns.

[gollygee]

85. Not African American domestic workers

who got paid $3 a day in the 1950s (which is about $26.50 today) for 10 hours or more.

"Everybody who was on the books" eliminates a great number of people of color. So no, African Americans were not doing well financially in the 1950s. The following is an example of pay for African American domestic workers in 1968. From what I've read, $3 a day was pretty standard in the 1950s, and apparently some were still making that in 1968. And in the 1950s, they weren't elgible for social security either.

http://research.library.gsu.edu/c.php?g=115684&p=752642

Bolden started the "maids" union in Atlanta in 1968. At the time, female domestic workers in the city made between $3 and $10 a day. They received no protection under minimum wage law. The union grew quickly. In six months it had a few hundred members, and throughout the 1970s the organization maintained about 2,000 core members. Bolden and her union produced concrete results. By 1976, Atlanta maids earned a daily wage of $14. Seven years later, their wages rose to $40 a day and the maids were covered under federal minimum wage standards.

[ananda]

83. This proud liberal hopes that ..

.. all Americans will look at racism and heal it.