So where does the anger of the Bernie supporters come from?

[upaloopa]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Autumn (a host of the General Discussion forum).

Bernie supporters seem angry and pissed off to me. It is directed toward Hillary presently. Probably because they know they will not get the chance to direct it toward the repubs in the general election. So Hillary has become the target. All manner of MSM and right wing hit pieces are dragged out and posted as if that certain post will be the one that will sink the Hillary campaign.

DU is the bubble we play in everyday. It is not the real world.

Hillary supporters are not going to get angry at Bernie. They like him and agree with him. You won't see Hillary supporters scouring the web looking for Bernie hit pieces to post on DU. Hillary supporters have no need to do that. The ones about Bernie and guns or Bernie is a racist were not posted as an attempt to help out Hillary like the Hillary hit pieces are an attempt to promote Bernie.
Bernie is a good guy we all know it. You could say that Hillary supporters are handicapped by their not wanting to attack Bernie like the Bernie supporters attack Hillary. Well it just isn't in their make up and there is no need for it so it isn't really needed and won't be done.

Too bad Bernie's supporters on DU can't learn from his example of not going negative by not posting bull shit hit pieces about Hillary.

I think I know were the anger comes from. Hillary is in the way. Bernie can't be president as long as Hillary is in the race. They have to knock off Hillary and they know it even if they can't admit it too themselves.

As the months drag on that anger will grow I think probably climaxing on the day Bernie drops out.

So I guess the attacks will get progressively meaner and meaner. Desperation has a way of doing that to people.

[Buzz Clik]

1. Bernie will not win anything without support from those on the fence and those leaning Hillary.

The constant "in your face" bile from a fraction of the Sanders crowd is not helping his cause.

[treestar]

5. Yes as they keep saying we can't win without them

Without realizing they could hardly win without us. I mean for Bernie to win, many Hillary supporters would have to be converted. There's no attempt to do that.

And it's amazing the lack of anger towards Republicans. Calling Hillary a warmonger over one vote at a time when the population was very warmongering indeed seems out of place compared to the warmongering of the average Republican.

[Andy823]

24. It's not all of Bernie's supporters

What I see are the same people who have been bashing the president, are now moving on to Hillary. Not only the long time bashers on DU, but a whole lot of new posters who come on and rec up the posts by the usual trouble makers, which in turn encourages them to keep on spewing the right wing BS.

I also am amazed at the lack of anger for republicans, yet they have so much anger for democrats. It really doesn't make a lot of sense.

[Sheepshank]

61. hammer... meet nail

you said it just the way I see it too.

I can't imagine why the vitriol against our own is so prevalent, when there are 20+ Republican candidates and a huge section of the rw voting population that deserves our collective vitriol.

[Bobbie Jo]

70. That's it in a nutshell...

What I see are the same people who have been bashing the president, are now moving on to Hillary.

90% - same folks.

I'm baffled by this too...

I also am amazed at the lack of anger for republicans,...

[Buzz Clik]

29. "Hillary supporters would have to be converted" -- at a 100% conversion rate

Constant insults about not being progressive enough or Third Way bullshit is incredibly off-putting.

[jalan48]

65. And Hillary won't win the general election without Progressives.

To assume that Progressives will vote for Hillary is a mistake. Progressives may choose to sit this one out.

[Fla Dem]

75. Really? I don't think so. A real Progressive will not allow an ultra RW candidate like

Scott Walker to sit in the White House having every single thing he does controlled by the Koch brothers up to and including Supreme Court Justice nominees. "Real Progressives" will vote for whomever the Democratic nominee is, because they know to do otherwise is to set this country and all the gains made by liberals/progressives back 60 years.

[Buzz Clik]

80. I'm assuming nothing. I get a couple of impressions about the most venomous Sanders supporters:

1) A good chunk of the nasty, mouthy ones aren't Democrats
2) Some of the negativity is just an echo of their great enthusiasm

Considering that the same people who are way down on Hillary also despise Obama, I am making no assumptions; those people may stay home in November 2016 and not vote at all.

[cantbeserious]

2. Anger Is Probably Not The Right Characterization

Frustration and disgust with party politics that picks corporate homogenized candidates is more likely the source of the perceived anger.

[KittyWampus]

20. if you want party politics to change you have to get in the party politics game >>>

which is hardball.

And it's played over long periods of time.

It's not for impatient and those who can't work with those they dislike or disagree with.

[99Forever]

3. That's funny.

Sure looks to me that the actual people that are "so angry and pissed off" are those that explode at anyone who doesn't just fall in line to support Hillary R Clinton.

Strange how that perception thing works, eh buddy?

[daleanime]

8. Well, you have to make sure...

that it's properly framed.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

34. LOL

Strange how that perception thing works, eh buddy?

[99Forever]

37. Aren't you special.

Well bless your heart.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

40. I find your attempts to intimidate people from the anonymity of an internet connection hilarious.

Strange how that perception thing works, eh buddy?

I find your attempts to intimidate people from the anonymity of an internet connection hilarious.

[99Forever]

45. Intimidate?

Over the top hyperbole much?

Ri-fucking-diculous.

[AlbertCat]

53. those that explode at anyone who doesn't just fall in line to support Hillary R Clinton.

Yes, the most disgusting thing going on now re the upcoming elections is this very RW notion that someone...in this case Clinton... "deserves" the position, no matter what. That she's somehow "earned" it.

[AlbertCat]

72. If Hillary had an R after her name I would vote for her.

Well.... that makes sense!


NOT!


Whether one has 2 chromosomes or not is no reason to vote for anyone.


But the Sanders people are desperate..... riiiiight.....

[NYC_SKP]

73. You wrote "If Hillary had an R after her name I would vote for her."

And this is why we can't have nice things.

[Duckhunter935]

4. I think some are to sensitive

And can not take any criticism of the anointed one myself. I think the Hillary side has not been very nice either

[daleanime]

11. That's strange, I can easy think of a couple of issues....

where I disagree with Bernie.

1-I don't support the use of drones at all. Bernie thinks that they can service a useful purpose.

2-He's more supportive of Israel then I like. In order to see any progress in the middle east we need to take a more neutral position.

And I'm sure that there are other areas. Which means that Bernie is only batting about .900 with me. So I guess I'll support him.



Now it your turn, give us a couple areas where you disagree with Hillary.

[Buzz Clik]

31. Case In Point: "can not take any criticism of the anointed one" Thanks for the demo

[bravenak]

6. It goes both ways.

One side uses heavy doses of condescending language and the other side seems more frustrated than angry. Then they switch places.
It's only a few people making the most noise. On both sides.

[KittyWampus]

21. bravenak, when I log onto DU, it's sounds like bickering. Like a family bickering….

So your "Then they switch places" made me laugh cause it's true.

What's the old joke… I resemble that remark?

[bravenak]

25. So true!

We sound like a family.

[cherokeeprogressive]

7. I don't think it helps that the DNC is raising money for Hillary.

Before the primaries have even begun.

[brooklynite]

28. Unless you have evidence that the Committee as a whole is supporting Hillary, what one person does..

...is something of a stretch.

[cali]

49. yeah, because hey, it's only the FINANCE CHAIRMAN

[cherokeeprogressive]

59. Don't you love the way some people split hairs? n/t

[Sancho]

51. There are a few Democrats in the race...

and the DNC is free to support them. Bernie wants his cake and eat it too IMHO.

If Bernie wants the DNC to support him (with money, debate formats, etc.), then he should spend a few years in Congress with a D behind his name.

That's my view.

Even if one likes Bernie, he hasn't been a loyal Democrat until he's walked the walk.

[AlbertCat]

60. he hasn't been a loyal Democrat

What.... he didn't vote to let Dubya go into Iraq?!?!

We need more Dems who follow the group-think!!!!

[Sancho]

64. He hasn't had a "D" on his name in Congress...

I don't care how he voted unless he was voting as a Democrat.

Bernie should not receive support from the DNC, unless he is a Democrat.

Simple. If you like his voting record, then get support from the Socialist Party, the Communist Party, or whatever party you like...but don't complain about the DNC fund-raising if you are not a Democrat.

[cherokeeprogressive]

71. Pssst... Hillary isn't the only announced candidate with a D behind her name.

The Finance Chairman shouldn't be involved in her fundraising efforts until she's won the nomination. Them's the DNC's rules.

Let's see you split THAT hair.

[Sancho]

78. If the DNC wants to look at their rules, that's fine.

Bernie has no complaint about fund-raising, debate rules, or anything else about the DNC until he has the D on his letterhead.

Martin O'Malley or others are welcome to get their share of DNC support or complain. They have a seat at the table.

Meanwhile, as the to "Iraq war vote" meme again and again. As a single issue, I'll never support someone who voted to protect gun manufacturers, supported the F35 boondoggle (there's the money for college pissed away), or suggested taxing the retirements of public and union employees.

Bernie has just as many "one-issue" negatives as some of us can stand. Personally, I don't care about his "Shades of White" sex life.

I'll vote for the Democratic candidate. The attack posts can go both ways...and that's the point of the OP.

[el_bryanto]

9. I do agree that there has been some pretty unfortunate and unfair attacks on Hillary

Along with many many many justifiable criticisms of her DLC, Centrist, pro-Wall Street, Pro Corporation, pro Surveillance State stances.

And you are right that if Bernie is going to be the nominee, he has to defeat Hillary Clinton. Welcome to politics.

You might also consider how Hillary supporters behave. Accusing DU Bernie supporters of being insensitive to minorities for example, or the frankly nasty triumphalism exhibited by several posts. I suppose some of the anger might actually be justified by how HRC supporters act.

Bryant

[rogerashton]

10. The OP is a good example of

reductio ad absurdam -- a statement that contradicts itself.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

30. reductio ad absurd(um)

eom

[HassleCat]

56. Technically

Reduction ad absurdum is Latin for "reduction to absurdity." The person using this technique tries to put the argument on a slippery slope, so a reasonable position can be pushed to a ridiculous degree. A great example of reduction ad absurdum is the contention that allowing same-sex marriage will mean we have to legalize polygamy, marriage between different species, pedophilia, etc. A statement that contradicts itself is an oxymoron or a paradox. By the way, you are correct in saying the OP is a reduction ad absurdum, although its not an egregious example. The OP uses a few specific examples to label Sanders supporters in general as angry.

[Thinkingabout]

12. I would have thought after Bernie has said he has never run a negative campaign and does not

seem happy about the attacks it still continues. I would imagine it is frustrating to Bernie to continue to see these events happening. No, these attacks do not promote Bernie, in fact for me they make me look towards someone else even more. There isn't a perfect candidate, I recognize this in Hillary, we don't agree on each and every issues and to me there are some issues I totally agree with Hillary and these issues is the reason why I am a Hillary supporter.

Both candidates agree on many issues, issues which have been a part of the DNC for many years. We do not need a clown car primary, we can have a primary to give issues and where the candidates, all these other side issues only prevent the needs of this nation from being addressed. The RW talking points needs to stay with those like Rush and Sean, we can allow them to continue to lie, they are not Democrats.

[randome]

13. I understand why some long-time DUers are taking a break from DU during this time.

It's become a mess. Sanders? Clinton? It will all sort itself out but the Primaries are still a long time from now.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[Orsino]

14. From the tyrranical equation of money with political power.

The same thing everyone should be angry about.

We can also be set off by condescending group attacks.

[Bonobo]

15. Funny how the same charge was leveled at Dean supporters.

At least the Sanders supporters focus their fire on Hillary and her issues.

Unlike this piece of shit OP and others like it that try to make an issue of the supporters.

I think this OP sucks rotten eggs.

[think]

16. Anger? No. Disappointment is more like it. The arms deals in relation to donations & paid speeches

kind of takes the cake...

When she & Bill are getting donations and giving paid speeches to the countries buying the weapons and the companies selling the weapons while she is SOS it's obvious that HRC has some huge problems that seem impossible to rectify:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017269516

[procon]

17. Bernie, save us from your vitriolic followers!

Just stop.

They do more harm than good. I'm not ready to choose sides, but if the contentious and rancorous attitude of his f fightful followers were representative of the candidate's character, I'd already be in Hillary's camp.

[AlbertCat]

66. I'm not ready to choose sides,

The most intelligent thing said in this entire thread!

[DURHAM D]

18. Results from the jury -

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
Mail Message
On Wed Jun 3, 2015, 09:13 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

So where does the anger of the Bernie supporters come from?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026771723

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Pure meta flamebait. As Skinner says, "People on juries should vote to hide the divisive flamebaity crap. Get hard-assed. Stop cutting the jerks any slack."

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Jun 3, 2015, 09:21 AM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Sorry alerter -- this opinion does not equal flamebait. Not disruptive. Not Hurtful. Not rude. Not over-the-top. Not inappropriate.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: While it is badly written, rude, obnoxious, wrong on facts, and seems to project a serious mental problem (unmedicated) from which the author may suffer, I do not believe that it should be shit-canned. The reality is that it is the Hillary supporters who seem defensive, angry, and very pissed off.

The best thing we could do for this author is to simply let this idiotic post stay on as an example of limited thinking ability, and to laugh at its content.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Oh look... an angry Sanders supporter does not like this post. This Alert proves the point of the OP.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This is Meta crap. And I find it interesting that the poster is blind to similar behavior from HRC supporters. Pot, meet Kettle.

[el_bryanto]

27. Boy Juror #7 sure nailed it didn't he? I don't agree with hiding it

But the rest of that - right on the money.

Bryant

[Buzz Clik]

35. Yeah, if only it wasn't a jury. As it is ...

total bullshit.

[Buzz Clik]

33. Juror 7: A jury is not a soap box. Try doing your job! Juror #2: Are you shitting me?

Jeebus H Christ.

The jury system is completely fugged.

[truebluegreen]

50. I agree

since they let the post stand. Or isn't that what you meant?

[Buzz Clik]

52. Oh, snap!

FAIL

[Nitram]

47. Looks to me like the jury is participating in the debate.

And voting based on their political opinions rather than an objective reading of the rules. Perhaps the system needs an overhaul.

[Buzz Clik]

55. +1 on the jurors taking part in the debate; +1 on the need for an overhaul.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. I love all our candidates and pray that some of Bernie's more rhetorically violent supporters...

I love all our candidates and pray that some of Bernie's more rhetorically violent supporters find peace.

[Buzz Clik]

36. +1

[QC]

22. Be the change that you seek. n/t

[deutsey]

23. For fuck's sake

[brooklynite]

26. I think your second point is the most relevant....

Posting all the anti-Hillary trash in the world won't have the slightest impact on people's voting preferences in the real world...like FOX NEWS, it's just reinforcing the biases of an audience that's already made up it's mind.

[Logical]

32. Nice hit and run! nt

[morningfog]

38. Bullshit meta flame bait.

[PowerToThePeople]

44. This

Eom

[Luminous Animal]

39. I see. If the Hillary campaign has nothing on Bernie, go after his supporters.

[Stainless]

41. Dumb OP

IMHO.....

[peecoolyour]

42. Probably because most of us are broke, like we just left the WH or something. nt

[Trajan]

43. Don't mistake dedication and resolve for anger

I see more anger from the Hillary side, by far ... I see some of the heavy hitters in that group are here in this thread ...

In fact, I could swear the OP is one of those who vocally despise the Bernie supporters...

Projection much?

[cali]

46. denial ain't just a.... Plenty of HRC supporters here are as nasty as can be

and have attacked Bernie repeatedly. Keep telling yourself that fable, though!

[geek tragedy]

48. Well, stuff like this OP are likely to piss us off, so I guess mission accomplished nt

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

54. Keep on stirring the chamberpot.

Look in a mirror sometime.

[djean111]

57. Oh boy. Old old trick - accuse others of what one is doing.

The victim thing is getting pretty funny. I see anger that the primary is not going to be a cakewalk for Hillary.

[Starry Messenger]

58. I don't think OPs like this are productive.

I wish you'd delete this.

[Laser102]

62. i agree. When i supported Howard Dean I felt the same. Thing is I couldn't trash John Kerry either.

I liked him and realized trashing him would give Bush the advantage. Lets all play nice.

[drm604]

63. I like Bernie, and I may vote for him in the primary.

That does not mean that I hate, dislike, or feel anger towards Hillary or her supporters. I simply like Bernie more. If Hillary wins the primary, and currently it looks like that's what will happen, then I will support her wholeheartedly in the general.

I've even defended her once or twice against what I thought were unfair attacks.

I think the people that you're complaining about are probably a vocal minority. Some of them may not even be real Democrats but instead are here to stir up doubt about the likely Democratic primary candidate.

[leveymg]

67. Hillary is a key figure in the 1% Establishment that angers so many of us.

She isn't a substitute for anything. She isn't going away. Nor are we - the angry 99% will only get angrier and more numerous given the policies she aggressively pursues.

[KingCharlemagne]

69. Hillary has the blood of 1,000,000+ dead Iraqi civilians dripping from her hands. How

is noting that saleint fact being angry or a right-wing hit piece? The right-wing wanted even more dead Iraqis.

WTF???

[chev52]

74. Transpacific partnership.

Pushed in secret. Obama siding with republicans on this. Now is Hillary's chance to prove who's side she's on. Corporations or the American citizens? I think she will be an almost republican just like Obama and Bill was. Not so much anger here as wanting someone finally representing ordinary Americans like Bernie is doing.

[HassleCat]

76. I can explain

As a non-angry Sanders supporter, I have a few ideas.

Yes, there is some feeling that damaging the front runner might help the others. I don't think this is very widespread.

Some people simply don't like Clinton. They may or may not have specific reasons. This is just part of being a politician.

The Clinton campaign is a juggernaut. It has buckets of money, a big staff, lots of connections, etc. This may be seen as an unfair advantage, particularly since Sanders is not taking money from the usual sources.

Sanders is a democratic socialist and a progressive. (So am I, which is why I support him.) This puts him some distance away from Clinton on the political spectrum. Many of my friends who share my political leanings are upset at the way they're treated by the mainstream Democratic Party, feeling marginalized or ostracized. They feel Clinton is partly responsible because she supports the DLC wing of the party. They feel Sanders should be a Democrat, except the party makes no room for democratic socialists and progressives, so he has to be an independent.

Clinton is perceived by some as a class traitor, a tool of Wall Street, captured by corporate donations, etc. Of course, she is only doing what most politicians do, but she's doing it so well that it feeds into the notion that big money from certain sources represents evil. Since Sanders does not accept money from these sources, he represents good. For some people, this makes it a battle between good and evil, and they want to run in and slay the dragon. The dragon being Clinton, if the metaphor isn't obvious.

When people get involved with a political candidate, they sometimes get really white hat - black hat about it. My candidate if perfectly good, and anyone who opposes him is perfectly evil. Nuance, subtlety, shades of gray go right out the window. I see this from all the camps, by the way, not just from my fellow Sanders fans.

[frylock]

77. Probably from the arrogance and hubris of some of the more vocal supporters of Clinton

[Autumn]

79. Locking. Meta is prohibited in GD. Please see Skinners pinned thread in GD

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025307978

DISRUPTIVE META-DISCUSSION
Positive threads about Democratic Underground or its members are are permitted.

Threads complaining about Democratic Underground or its members; threads complaining about jury decisions, locked threads, suspensions, bannings, or the like; and threads intended to disrupt or negatively influence the normal workings of Democratic Underground and its community moderating system are not permitted.