If you decide to call someone a c***, you have no place here.

[NuclearDem]

Anymore than you would if you call someone a n*****, a f**, or a k***.

That word is a very strong pejorative aimed at women.

No one, no 5 post troll, no 50,000+ member, no one has any excuse to call anyone that here.

[LexVegas]

1. People will forgive and justify a lot if they "know" and like the person using the slur. nt.

[ScreamingMeemie]

57. i dont "know and like" the poster who posted a word twist

But I still think the ban is a bunch of hooey.

[treestar]

274. Would the m word have

Justified a ban?

[bobGandolf]

301. I agree.....

the ban is too strong in this particular situation, regardless of who said it.

I find it more disturbing that most of the people, against the severe punishment, feel that way because they know, and like, the long time member.

[JDPriestly]

71. OK, now what did NYC_SKP really say, precisely, and how is it any worse than

using this substitute for one of those naughty words: *(^&_^(*^? If he had actually used the word, then, maybe. But he didn't. He made a joke and people had to read into a tongue twister a word that the people doing the reading put there and found there and then got shocked about.

Talk about hypocrisy! NYC_SKP did not use any offensive word. I don't get this. I wonder whether NYC_SKP is some sort of sacrificial symbol for the Hillary fans. Look, Hillary, look what we have given you.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

81. Thare are people who dislike Hillary so they countenance use of the word.

Google is their friends:



https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=cunning%20stunt

[treestar]

276. That poster hated Hillary

So much he was not going to last anyway. Once she's the nominee how was he going to last?

[Cha]

102. Here's a Bernie supporter speaking out on that.. and there was a Bernie supporter on the thread last

night calling skp out on what he said.. which was this..

"Welcome to DU, Feel the Bern! And yes, it's a Cunning Stunt!

I say that to myself every day, over an over.

It can be a tongue twister!

He even has it in his journal.. so proud.

This Bernie supporter doesn't want to be associated with skp's cleverness..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6782293

You can think it's clever and amusing.. if it had been directed at Elizabeth Warren you might feel differently.. The whole board would want the person banned.. me included.

"I wonder whether NYC_SKP is some sort of sacrificial symbol for the Hillary fans. Look, Hillary, look what we have given you."

Good grief.. this isn't about "sacrificial symbol for the Hillary fans.".. If you think so then talk to Skinner in ATA and let him know how you feel about it.

[C Moon]

131. I was wondering what was going on. I agree: that was not necessary. And should not be permitted.

[Egnever]

156. Going to have to dissagree

He was quoting the person he responded to.

He thought it was clever to be sure but it wasn't his idea. He was agreeing with the poster he was responding to.

Had he come up with it himself I might be on board with this but he didn't and taken in context I don't think it is right to ban someone who has contributed for years based on one response agreeing with someone else's snarky comment.

Did you see this?


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6778538

Just for the record this is what the poster he was responding to said.

Feel the Bern.

If she's not ready to handle spontaneous exchanges,

she is not fit for the Presidency. This is all smoke and mirrors, IMO. Yes, I am voting for Bernie but just thinking of her even pulling such a cunning stunt is pretty shockingly appalling.

I'm not sayin'--I'm just sayin'...

He basically repeated what the poster he responded to said. Yes he thought it was clever but it wasn't his and blaming him for it is pretty lame IMHO. Even more so when we have a poster here that calls our democratic president a POS used car salesman.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

167. That person deserve a long time out too...

"Even more so when we have a poster here that calls our democratic president a POS used car salesman."


The punishment strikes me as a bit harsh but it's disingenuous to deny what he thought he cleverly conveyed.

[Egnever]

175. Except he didnt

He piled on to the other persons comment to be sure. But it wasn't his idea in the first place. Interesting that the person who originally made the comments post can no longer be seen but NY's is still visible. If both are banned why is one visible but not the other?

This situation stinks

A time out to be sure but an outright ban is ludicrous.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

182. Four points

- I favor a time out, not a ban.
- SKP used a clever circumlocution to call a woman the most offensive thing you can call her.
- The poster who call President Obama waste deserves a timeout
-You can't see the post SKP responded to because he responded to a troll who was banned.

[Egnever]

196. You seem intent on ignoring the fact that he basically repeated what the other poster said

I am not sure why you refuse to acknowledge that he was repeating almost word for word the previous poster. Or that you attribute it to him instead of the person who originally wrote it.

He found it funny and repeated it. While people may not agree with that humor placing the blame on him without acknowledging that he didn't come up with it strikes me as quite odd.

A time out I can see though I would likely still not think it was right but a ban is so far over the top it wreaks of a personal agenda as opposed to good housekeeping.

Should have been a hidden post and nothing more.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

213. So if I parrot someone hurling an offensive epithet my responsibility is mitigated, how?

[Egnever]

217. Only in that you should not be credited with coming up with it in the first place

Which is what so many seem intent on doing.

A hidden post would have been appropriate, a ban and pretending he was the one who came up with it is a farce.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

219. He relished in it...

When I was kid there were two Downs Syndrome kids in our neighborhood, Other kids would call them the r word to their face. Was the person who said it last less culpable?


The punishment was excessive but the offense was odious.

[Egnever]

224. I don't agree the offense was odious

It is one thing to call someone something outright and quite another to be amused by a turn of phrase that someone else wrote.

I don't find luis CK funny at all but that doesn't mean I think the people who do find him funny are despicable people.

[uppityperson]

374. He was not "repeating almost word for word the previous poster"

As a member of the MIRteam, I can look it up. The first of these in no way repeats "almost word for word" the second.

Welcome to DU, Feel the Bern! And yes, it's a Cunning Stunt!

I say that to myself every day, over an over.

It can be a tongue twister!

Is NOT word for word at all this (the banned newbie troll)...

Feel the Bern.

If she's not ready to handle spontaneous exchanges,

she is not fit for the Presidency. This is all smoke and mirrors, IMO. Yes, I am voting for Bernie but just thinking of her even pulling such a cunning stunt is pretty shockingly appalling.

I'm not sayin'--I'm just sayin'...

[Egnever]

375. Nonsense

The words that banned him were drawn straight from the original post. You can quible that it is not an exact quote but the fact remains the words he was banned for supposedly were drawn directly from the post he was responding to.

Regardless the idea that a decade long poster should be banned over one post is ludicrous and indefensible to start with.

The actual word appears thousands of times on this site without so much as a hide. Pretending that post was so offensive as to warrant an instant ban is ridiculous.

A hide certainly, a ban is personal and way over the top.

[uppityperson]

376. He did not repeat "word for word", that is my point. I have seen that claim and want to lay it to

rest. That is my only point.

Since the banned troll's post is not visible, I thought perhaps you might like to see what they wrote as NYC_SKP's certainly was not "word for word".

The only words he repeated were "to", "I" and the bad term.

That is my only point, not whether or not he should or should not have been banned. Just that he did not repeat "word for word" the banned troll's post.

[Egnever]

378. He also didn't use the C word

Yet that has been repeated here over and over. I think if you look through this thread I re-posted the full exchange long before the post you are responding to.

The words he repeated were the posters handle "Feel the Bern" and the phrase "Cunning stunt" Which is exactly what got him banned.

It wasn't the rest of his post that got him banned according to the banning notes it was the phrase he repeated "Cunning stunt". So I think it a bit disingenuous to try to say he wasn't banned for repeating what the original post said.

Appreciate the attempt to try to add relevant points but it was seeing the whole exchange that made me think it was a ridiculous ban in the first place. It was also the constantly repeated line that he had used the C word that prompted me to post that he did not and that he was repeating what the other poster had said. So I think we are sort of coming from the same place.

I am in no way a fan of NY-SKP in fact I butted heads with him more often than not. So I am not at all affected by his banning really other than the fact that if he can be banned for something so ridiculous so can any other long time poster on this board. I am much more concerned with the personal nature of this ban than the personalities involved.

[uppityperson]

382. "Feel the Bern." was the troll's name, hence the "Welcome to DU, Feel the Bern! "

Excuse me, I copy/pasted their name as part of the exchange when it wasn't. The thing they wrote was

If she's not ready to handle spontaneous exchanges,

she is not fit for the Presidency. This is all smoke and mirrors, IMO. Yes, I am voting for Bernie but just thinking of her even pulling such a cunning stunt is pretty shockingly appalling.

I'm not sayin'--I'm just sayin'...

He welcomed them by name, which was Feel the Bern. My apologies for the confusion in putting that as part of their post before as the banned troll did not write that, that was their name.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=323545

My point was he did not repeat the above word for word, as has been claimed. That was and is my only point.

[Egnever]

379. Just for clarity you can see I reposted the original post he was responding to about 6 posts above

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6782612

[TheBlackAdder]

426. As a staunch EFF supporter and English Lit. Major, I concur with your assessment.

I've casually seen this debate unfold over the past week and once I've read the exact flow of the discourse, this level of political correctness opens up a whole bunch of grey areas as to who can and will be censored in the future. Whether a person volunteers for, is an active member of, or past member of the MIRT is irrelevant.

The censorship of this user is an abomination, one which palces people on pins and needles over their next post, as local and regional dialects and euphamisms could come under scrutiny. Word play, banter, and literary creativity are what makes this country and literature great.

People need to step back a bit and let their fur settle or their feathers unruffle.

[uppityperson]

372. Regarding removing posts at banning, that is because the other was a newbie who was banned

If you are a new DUer and get banned, your posts go away. If you are a long term Duer, they don't.

DU has several serial zombies who sign up repeatedly and get banned, often after 1 post, in this case after 3. Some of them, including most likely that one, have signed up and been banned literally thousands of times. The software automatically removes their posts if they are under a certain number, I am not sure what that is but NYC_SKP was well beyond it.

Hence hers was removed, his wasn't.

It makes one wonder about the mindset of someone who would sign up thousands of times, knowing their post would often be seen by only 1 person before getting banned. But it is good, to remove their often nasty crap and not give them the satisfaction of knowing they've caused discord or pain.

[NBachers]

209. Or, you can do like I do- when I see his name, I just don't bother clicking.

[LiberalElite]

358. I'm learning to do that too - and remember folks, IGNORE is your friend nt

[JDPriestly]

173. Finally I see the text of the preceding post.

The banning was just way over the top. The post was simply stupid. Removing it should have been the worst that happened. Really.

I guess that expression is something the younger generation knows and uses. I had never seen it before. But NYC_SKP did not use the "c" word, and it goes to show you how crowd insanity works. I'm getting posts to my posts responding that he used the "c" word, and threads are begun warning about using the word. And the only people who used the "c" word are those writing posts about the "c" word.

I can just picture my dear husband, with his love of language discovering the new expression that NYC_SKP used. I would hear it several times before it would quietly join his vocabulary of very colorful, delightfully shocking words. My husband learned his English in the United States Air Force and knows lots of very expressive ones, but I never head this stunningly clever cunning stunt expression. Anyone who is fascinated with language could not help but find that expression one to repeat and rejoice in. Sorry it was not the "c" word. Far from it.

[Egnever]

191. Completely agree

The lynch mob mentality is alive and well here at DU.

If it was his comment originally I would be a little more sympathetic to the ban but the fact that he was basically finding humor in what the other person posted leaves me feeling this is a really bad ban.

I can certainly see how people take offense to it but a ban of 10 year member over finding humor in someone else's post is so far over the top it looks personal.

[FarPoint]

283. The mob mentality is strong now.

Understanding this detail serves me as a warning.... Thus, I just read verses posting much at all. I'll slip into the cooking and TV forums....safer there.

[Cha]

205. thank Goodness for the Bernie supporters who don't excuse this "cleverness" and don't want to be

associated with it.

If it were used against Elizabeth Warren.. I don't think anyone would be defending it here. I know I wouldn't.

He put it in his journal.. so proud of it.

[NBachers]

241. It's not a new expression; I've known of it for decades. There was a movie of that name playing

in the Miami x-rated movie houses back in the '70's. I've run across it quite a few times since then.

You can also go to http://www.matthewhunt.com/ under the heading "The C-Word." This is an exhaustive word history that goes back to the birth of language itself.

Scroll down to the section titled "Euphemism." It's a detailed account of the history of the term being discussed here. It goes back to a record produced in the '70's by a group called Caravan with the "Cunning ....." name.

Look under the Discography heading for the band Caravan in Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caravan_(band)

[JDPriestly]

242. All that may be true, but it is not any more the C word than saying c*******t

or anything like that. And it was not specifically used by NYC_SKP with regard to Hillary. It was used by the previous poster sort of with regard to Hillary. NYC_SKP did not mention Hillary in his post.

[geek tragedy]

284. Matt Drudge used it against Cindy Sheehan in 2005.

It's a well-known way for chickenshit misogynists to call a woman that word while giggling about how clever they are.

[awoke_in_2003]

325. I hadn't heard it either

until someone posted the Urban Dictionay link

[Adrahil]

417. It's a far more common phrase in the UK. n/t

[MohRokTah]

408. He was AGREEING with the banned troll. eom

[Cha]

201. Yeah, he put it in his journal too.. no excuses.. yes we disagree.

[Egnever]

208. Not so sure he put it in his journal

I have never put anything in my journal yet there are posts there of mine I have no clue how they got there.

[Cha]

214. He did put it in his journal. I have no posts in my journal that I did not put there.

[Egnever]

220. He may have

He thought it was clever to be sure since he repeated it.

Unlike you I do have posts in my journal I did not put there. Hell I don't even know how to put something in my journal nor do I care.

[Cha]

250. I'm sure skp knows how to put posts in his journal as do I.. it's easy.

[treestar]

278. C word is parallel to using the n word

Used car salesman could be directed at anybody.

[Zorra]

179. Cha, if a relatively new poster on DU created a sock puppet

Last edited Fri Jun 5, 2015, 02:30 AM - Edit history (1)

to use on juries in order to use this sock puppet to get posts by DUers who they disagreed with hidden, and, ultimately, to try to get those posters tombstoned, and the admins found out about it, but did not tombstone the offending poster, how would you feel about that?

Also consider that this poster may be a supporter of Secretary Clinton.

Should the admins ban this poster, or just "spank" them, and give them another chance?

[treestar]

277. Yes the same people

Actually defending this would have found it unacceptable directed at Warren

We know there are people with ODS on DU. But not one veered anywhere near the n word.

[Cha]

299. "Yes the same people Actually defending this would have found it unacceptable directed at Warren"

They'd be screaming for the person's head who said it! Rightly so..

But, instead some are excusing him by accusing the Admins of "looking for a reason and got it" because he was outspoken on his dislike of Hillary.."

"Loudly, incessantly critical of Hillary. Nothing hide-worthy. Which is my point. He was out spoken in his dislike of HIllary and I am sure many wanted him gone. I think the admins were looking for a reason and got it."

Notice they use the word "dislike" which is wildly understated.

Btw, I didn't want him gone.. before he got banned by the Admin. That's what the Trash server is for.. or just ignore it. . I never think in terms of someone being "gone"..

[MrMickeysMom]

364. I don't understand why you would quote his response to the post before, but not the post before...

I guess I just have to shake my head, and disagree because it was not the same as calling a person the sea word. I know you probably won't believe that, but that is the truth.

This is going to get to the point of nausea. I already asked my question in "ATA", and I'll probably get a vague response that reminds me of mom and dad saying, "because I said so".

[Cha]

367. I didn't post it because I didn't have it before.. but now I do..

"Troll"

Feel the Bern.

If she's not ready to handle spontaneous exchanges,

she is not fit for the Presidency. This is all smoke and mirrors, IMO. Yes, I am voting for Bernie but just thinking of her even pulling such a cunning stunt is pretty shockingly appalling.

I'm not sayin'--I'm just sayin'...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6775879
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6783979

How SKP responded..

"Welcome to DU, Feel the Bern! And yes, it's a Cunning Stunt!

I say that to myself every day, over an over.

It can be a tongue twister!

Posted it in his journal too..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/~NYC_SKP

"Called Hillary Clinton the c-word. Thought he was being clever about it. He was not."

EarlG (Administrator)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=221412&sub=trans

[MrMickeysMom]

368. You repeated everything I read, except for that "C" you claim, which he never used on her, Cha...

Assumptions can only play out so far, but that's such a stretch of imagination, I'm calling you out on it.

IT. IS. NOT. TRUE, what you say…

[Cha]

384. You can call me out all you want.. it means nothing. Just because you want to excuse SKP for a

misogynistic slur against Hillary Clinton.. that's on you.

The important thing is that EarlG and the Admin got it and so do at lot of other people including Sanders' supporters.

Go wag your finger at the mirror.

[MrMickeysMom]

387. "got it" is subjective...

They "got" what you "got"… "It" was subjective. I don't really care how many of this person's supporters or that person's supporters also "got it"…. "It" was wrong and once again there is a pattern of those who are too obtuse to realize what they really "did".

I don't excuse anyone for a misogynistic slurs, but you cannot see past that. That is your problem and not mine.

[Cha]

401. Nah, all you have are insults and wagging your finger. you have nothing to offer.

[MrMickeysMom]

406. It's okay for you to say that, Cha… I recognize where it's coming from...

I'm a woman, too. I've been around this planet for 61 years. I'm as young today as I was 30 years ago, but a bit wiser to be so easily "insulted" by someone else's challenge to my opinion, finger-wagging and all.

I know you by your historic passionate posts that it's harsh to be called out on something. But, when it's called for, I'll wag my finger at ANYONE who write as you have on this subject, regardless of who they support as president (as if that is supposed to matter?)

BTW, the same administrators that made this ridiculous decision put that emoticon there … must be for a reason.

However, you want the last word on the insult that someone calls you to task… ? Fine...

You are officially challenged. Now, go write the next thing, because I know it's coming. Meanwhile, I won't count the number of insults on this board, but I will rise to the challenges of persons who have the same problem you do on this particular issue.

You and they are wrong about the decision the administers made, regardless.

[Cha]

407. As I said.. you have nothing to offer as far as I'm concerned.

[JonLP24]

253. What exactly did he say word for word?

Context is very important for me to carry an opinion. All I got from the OP this morning was he called Hillary Clinton the C-word which by itself I don't consider appropriate but if it was something else like satire than I would like to know, precisely, to judge for myself. I may run into it very soon as yours is like the 3rd or 4th post I read on all this so far today.

[magical thyme]

263. He didn't call Hillary the "C" word.

In response to a troll, he posted a tongue twister which, if you repeat it fast can turn into the "C" word. Since the troll's post was deleted, most of us didn't get to see what he was responding to. Since it was posted in the middle of the night, it's entirely possible he'd had one too many. But that he posted it with this icon it's clear to me at least that he posted it as a light-hearted joke. I'm a 60+ year old woman who did not find it in the least offensive.

He's posted some things that have occasionally gotten under my skin, but this wasn't one of them. I'm a Bernie supporter and have been concerned about some of his posts of late, which I felt did more harm than good. This also wasn't one of them. Banning him, imho, was very much an overreaction.

[JonLP24]

266. He was far from offensive based on my encounters with him

Seemed a lot nicer than me and respected his stance so it surprised when I read the OP this morning and by night seen several OPs -- all long reply counts that had a general consensus (though Nukes thread I could see after the fact be a zero tolerance kind of opinion then stevenlesser's who heightens my suspicion to the highest based on judgment of "Bernie Sanders supporters" had no idea his fact appear to be wrong on the defense of the C-word (unless he is a zero tolerance guy too). I have pretty much the same opinions of Skip as you do but does strike me as an overreaction but how does Hillary Clinton tie into this (and it may be why it was an overreaction as 1 that i know of so far as claimed to be a supporter of Clinton but I'm not going down the road of speculation, just wondering where Hillary Clinton ties into this which brought up the possibility (to me anyway)

This is why I wish meta was still around. It was probably like pouring gasoline on a fire but it did clear up things, I suppose its better to have it brewing underneath with PMs and attacks over something unrelated to the seemingly innocent thread but better to address & challenge the problems but I totally get why though I wish there was an archive or something. I won't lie I loved reading for entertaining but hate its disappeared because there are liars who explain their lies with lies and when is challenged in-depth the truth is explained with lies but the kind of lies chosen were fascinating -- its hard to explain because the record is gone but post at FR, say you were slow playing them into liberals, get kicked out -- bounce out to another forum -- bash Democrats there & event post racist opinions but Meta was probably shut down for that reason -- certainly the call-out nature of the place had something to do with it. I don't know but (might as well go all-out) a DUers who I like a lot insulted people here for years with various insults (though it was more funny to me than offensive and troll accusations are up given that he has an H avatar and don't want him to be kicked off but he had an open transparency that would always remain open and had a suspension or two (one of them he says he is going to leave DU because a jury hid a post where he insulted someone that he felt he had a right to insult. Glad he came back, underneath it all he is a good & honest poster.

[Cha]

404. But, he didn't post with that "icon".. the link is there for anyone to see..

and the misogynistic slur did offend me.

"Troll"

Feel the Bern.

If she's not ready to handle spontaneous exchanges,

she is not fit for the Presidency. This is all smoke and mirrors, IMO. Yes, I am voting for Bernie but just thinking of her even pulling such a cunning stunt is pretty shockingly appalling.

I'm not sayin'--I'm just sayin'...

"There will be NO opportunities to interview Hillary Clinton; her speech will be her interview."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6775879
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6783979

How SKP responded..

"Welcome to DU, Feel the Bern! And yes, it's a Cunning Stunt!

I say that to myself every day, over an over.

It can be a tongue twister!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6775973

Posted it in his journal too.. just in case anyone missed his Hide..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/~NYC_SKP

EarlG (Administrator)

"Called Hillary Clinton the c-word. Thought he was being clever about it. He was not."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=221412&sub=trans

Those making excuses for him like.. "he was only joking" "he really didn't say it.." "it wasn't directed at Hillary.." ".. the Admin is biased.." "he was ignorant of its meaning.." are Not helping him.

Everyone makes mistakes.. but, you get nowhere unless you own up to it and don't try to cover it up. Apologize and see what happens.

[Adrahil]

418. He knew exactly what he was doing.

His reference to a tongue twister makes that obvious, and with the devil smiley, he knew he wad skirting the rules. Too clever by half.

Bernie supporters should be disavowing some despicable behavior, not trying to minimize it.

[magical thyme]

423. offs. that you so much for telling Bernie supporters what to do

I don't consider his behavior despicable, or even close to it. Grow a sense of humor. And go away. There are about 5 zillion threads on this. Get. Over. It. You effing won. You and small-minded ninnies like you banished a perfectly good DUer. A ban was an overreaction. Live with it. and leave me the fuck alone.

[seaglass]

424. You're calling EarlG a small-minded ninny? Not sure the Admins take too kindly to being called

names, you might want to rethink that.

[treestar]

275. Oh please

Playing innocent about that is as disingenuous as it gets.

[KamaAina]

340. Check it out for yourself.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026775414#post55

Childish? Indeed. Bannable? Nope.

[Cha]

397. A misogynistic slur at Hillary Clinton is "childish"? Is that how you're dismissing his behavior?

"Troll"

Feel the Bern.

If she's not ready to handle spontaneous exchanges,

she is not fit for the Presidency. This is all smoke and mirrors, IMO. Yes, I am voting for Bernie but just thinking of her even pulling such a cunning stunt is pretty shockingly appalling.

I'm not sayin'--I'm just sayin'...

"There will be NO opportunities to interview Hillary Clinton; her speech will be her interview."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6775879
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6783979

How SKP responded..

"Welcome to DU, Feel the Bern! And yes, it's a Cunning Stunt!

I say that to myself every day, over an over.

It can be a tongue twister!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6775973

Posted it in his journal too.. just in case anyone missed his Hide..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/~NYC_SKP

EarlG (Administrator)

"Called Hillary Clinton the c-word. Thought he was being clever about it. He was not."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=221412&sub=trans

Those making excuses for him are not helping him.

He needs to own it and apologize.. and I don't think using any of the excuses that some are throwing out there are going to work.

Like "he was only joking" "he really didn't say it.." "it wasn't directed at Hillary.." ".. the Admin is biased.." "he was ignorant of what it meant" ".. it was childish.." ..I've seen it all and more.

Everyone makes mistakes.. but, you get nowhere unless you own up to it and don't try to cover it up. Apologize and see what happens.

[KamaAina]

412. The way he did it was childish.

"Cunning stunt", indeed!

[Cha]

415. I call it mean spirited and stupid

[Adrahil]

416. Really? Calling someone the c-word only rates a childish from you?

It's beyond my imagination that people are minimizing that kind of bahavior for the sake of supporting a candidaa in the primaries.

[man4allcats]

363. I agree it's possible that NYC_SKP is the victim of some cunning stunt

by the "don't split the vote, party 1st" contingency to eliminate a boisterous naderesque Bernie supporter. I guess we'll never know for sure.

[JTFrog]

370. Jury results.

On Sat Jun 6, 2015, 03:11 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

I agree it's possible that NYC_SKP is the victim of some cunning stunt
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6787954

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

He is using the c word because he is angry at administrations decision. How easy to insult women using a misogynist slur to make his point. The men are angry at the decision and the acklash is a slap across women's face repeatedly, by a number of men on DU. They think it is a cute little game, like NYC SKP thought it was, that resulted in a TOS. For many women, the c word is like the n word to POC. Hurtful. Insensitive. Over the top.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Jun 6, 2015, 03:19 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Which "c word"? "Cunning" or "contingency"? How are they misogynist??
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Completely inappropriate. NYC_SKP got banned, not sure why some folks are thinking that pushing that line is going to work out differently for them. One can only hope the admins are still paying attention.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I was voting to hide until I read the OTT Alert.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: It's not the dreaded C word, but that's how this jerk is using the phrase. How clever. Oh, and all the Bernie supporters whining that this is the beginning of some purge is not cute, not adorable, but really is some of the dumbest fucking shit I've ever read on the internet. Don't like it here? Then fucking leave. No one is making you hang out here. And I say this as someone who likes all 3 of our Democrats running, even though I've not committed to one. The real reason these knuckleheads are crying about an imaginary purge is they aren't Sanders supporters. They just hate Clinton as much as the Republicans do. NYCSkip didn't give a fuck about Sanders. Ok, rant over. Hide this ass who thinks he's being clever but has actually exposed himself as the ass he is.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Cha]

388. "..but really is some of the dumbest fucking shit I've ever read on the internet." Juror #7

Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: It's not the dreaded C word, but that's how this jerk is using the phrase. How clever. Oh, and all the Bernie supporters whining that this is the beginning of some purge is not cute, not adorable, but really is some of the dumbest fucking shit I've ever read on the internet. Don't like it here? Then fucking leave. No one is making you hang out here. And I say this as someone who likes all 3 of our Democrats running, even though I've not committed to one. The real reason these knuckleheads are crying about an imaginary purge is they aren't Sanders supporters. They just hate Clinton as much as the Republicans do. NYCSkip didn't give a fuck about Sanders. Ok, rant over. Hide this ass who thinks he's being clever but has actually exposed himself as the ass he is.

I actually think SKP does support Sanders.. but, his over the line rage tripped him up. the ones on DU who are denying what he said are only enabling him and not helping him get back. They're doing the opposite.

Juror #5 Nails it.. They're just making the case why SKP should have been banned. The Admins already knew this..

Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Completely inappropriate. NYC_SKP got banned, not sure why some folks are thinking that pushing that line is going to work out differently for them. One can only hope the admins are still paying attention.

"This is how Sanders supporters choose to campaign.. through misogyny".. In quotes because I read it and thought it applied.

mahalo JT

[Adrahil]

414. Bull.. That phrae is a well known euphamism for the c word.

You aren't doing your side any favors defending that reprehensible behavior.

[treestar]

273. +1

That is so.

[Duckhunter935]

2. I agree as long

as is not selectively enforced as it appears to be

[NuclearDem]

4. No argument from me on that.

[denem]

68. HRC Florida Prinary 2008

"Cunning stunt" and worse. Look it up.

[Duckhunter935]

265. OK

still does not change the fact he never said the word and was quoting another person.

[840high]

54. Agree.

[Electric Monk]

59. Are you trying to imply that you think NYC_SKP was targeted by admins for a different reason?

I remember right after Sandy Hook when they posted a "What's your favorite gun?" thread in GD. If I were an admin I'd have banned them right then and there for objectionable conduct. Perhaps the admins remembered that incident and took it into account too, perhaps not.

[ScreamingMeemie]

62. If they did, then it should have been part of the ban message.

EarlG could have easily said,"This poster has a history of..."

Instead, we got this message: "Called Hillary Clinton the c-word. Thought he was being clever about it. He was not."

Poor comment, if there is more to the story. (I always place the disclaimer that NYC SKP and I were not friends in this spot) As it stands, it looks like bias. I posted it before, and I'll post it again. It's why I don't take this site seriously at all anymore. At least the jury system worked well once tonight in a protected group. I thought I'd be the only vote to hide. Good to know there's still some sanity left across our wide and varied group.

[JDPriestly]

74. OK. Now, NYC_SKP did not call Hillary the c___ wprd.

He did not use the word. Not as literally as those who have condemned him for this imagined sin.

I just don't understand this. It makes utterly no sense to me. I think I am watching a crowd mania and seeing how a crowd can create a reality that is false.

[Duckhunter935]

83. yep, if a false thing is posted enough

it just feeds on itself

[DemocratSinceBirth]

88. Then why when I google "cunning stunt" does this come up?

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=cunning%20stunt


I may not be as as smart as some of the denizens of this board but I do believe I possess the intellectual acumen to copy and paste a phrase into google search and then see and read the results.

[JDPriestly]

93. So how is that different from writing a c and a bunch of symbols. It isn't.

A word is a word. A phrase that means a word is not the same as that word.

If I say that my cat is a sneaky animal with fur that meows, I have not used the c for cat word.

A word is a word. The substitutes and euphemisms and round-about expressions that evoke or mean the word are not the same as that word. NYC_SKP did not use the "c" word. Now I came closer to using the "c" word than he did.

People just love to jump on a bandwagon especially if it means that get to feel good about judging someone else for making a mistake or doing something "'naughty" than to be honest enough to admit that the "naughty" act did not even happen.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

96. Did he or did he not use a spoonerism to call a woman the c word?/NT

[GGJohn]

104. I don't know, and neither do you know for certain. eom.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

138. Whom should I believe?

A random internet poster or my lying eyes?

[GGJohn]

144. Did he use that offensive word? Yes or no? eom.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

154. Yes, he used a circumlocution to call a woman a c--t.

I am sorry I don't have as much affection for the word as some posters in this thread. It's an assault and an insult against every woman including the widow who raised me since I was fourteen.

[beevul]

373. What woman was he referring to?

And why use "it" rather than "she" if that was his intention?

Could it be because he was referring to the troll whos words he was throwing back in said trolls face?


I think so.

People quite regularly refer to obvious trolls as "it" on DU, like this one, for example:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025535599

If he was referring to the troll, what ever he did was no more out of line than the long list of examples listed here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026785070#post24


Not to mention, that apparently, a DUer talked to him on the phone and confirmed that such was his intent.

[JDPriestly]

106. He used a tongue twister but did not use the "c" word and I don't hink he actually

called anyone anything. People interpreted what he said to mean what they wanted it to say. I couldn't understand what they were talking about when I first read it but then the infamous or famous "c" word is not a part of either my vocabulary or my ready thought.

He did not use the word. He made a joke and it was apparently in response to a remark that was actually banned. It's a lot of to-do over nothing. Someone lost their patience with NYC_SKP for some reason. He used a phrase that substitutes for one of those "naughty" words that they used to wash kids mouths out with soap for.

It's all rather juvenile if you want to ask me.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

145. Using a circumlocution to call a woman a c--t is never acceptable

Using a circumlocution to call a woman a c--t is never acceptable whether that woman is Hilary Clinton, Ann Coulter, or Sarah Palin because it's a slur on all women of which my mom and girlfriend are one.

[JDPriestly]

161. I really don't think he used it to call anyone a c--t. I really don't think it was that

direct. Maybe you can find the post and prove me wrong. But when I first saw it, I couldn't understand the fuss. It was all innuendo. Happens all the time on DU. A lot of people just don't get the insults.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

171. Precisely

It was all innuendo

Precisely

If I used innuendo to call a black person the n word

If I used innuendo to call a gay person the f word

If I used innuendo to call a Jewish person the K word

If I used innuendo to call a Lations the s word


I would expect to be rebuked here.

[JDPriestly]

193. Here is what he said:

"Welcome to DU, Feel the Bern! And yes, it's a Cunning Stunt!

I say that to myself every day, over an over.

It can be a tongue twister!"

That is the precise wording of his post. He does not say he is talking about any particular person. He just delighted in the language. I can picture my husband who loves words and jokes delighting in it and not using it to refer to anyone.

Hillary was not mentioned in the post. She was mentioned in the previous post. But what is "it"? At most, it was Hillary's avoiding the press. That's as close as it might come to referring to Hillary and that link is tenuous. It might refer to something Hillary was doing, but not to Hillary.

NYC_SKP did not call Hillary the "c" word. It isn't there. A mistake was made. The mods should apologize to NYC_SKP.

[JDPriestly]

198. I think I posted the orginal post for you. He did not use an expression to refer

to any person. He referred to it. The Mods were wrong.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

206. You can threatren to drop me from an airplane...

You can threaten to drop me from an airplane and I am not going to countenance a racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, anti-semitic slur just because it is made by someone I like or used on someone I don't.

That's not how my widowed mother raised me.

[Gormy Cuss]

314. There are no mods. n/t

There are admins who have access to all of our posting history and can ban anyone at anytime. From the TOS:

If you seem to be ruining this website for a large proportion of our visitors, if we think the community as a whole would be better off without you here, if you are constantly wasting the DU Administrators' time, if you seem to oppose the mission of DU, or if the DU Administrators just don't like you, we will revoke your posting privileges. Remember: DU is supposed to be fun — don't make it suck.

[LanternWaste]

337. People also love to cower behind implication to better justify a sexist remark.

"People just love to jump on a bandwagon..."

People also love to cower behind implication to better justify a sexist remark. And no doubt, the dogmatic and the biased will love to rationalize the obvious and oft-discussed consequences of that sexist remark as righteous martyrdom.

[nadinbrzezinski]

89. Think Great Purge of 2016 and it will make sense

we have those every primary, and at times off them. You were here for the great Gay Purge...

[davidpdx]

305. It may be worse this time since the admins have clearly come out in favor of one candidate

before the primary. They have also been bombarded with complaints from Hillary Clinton supporters about juries supposedly being staked with Sanders supporters. If the results of the primary are what I think they will be, I will be locking myself out of DU for several months.

[nadinbrzezinski]

336. It will be

Of course, I already saw a few use some lovely anti Semitic slurs. So this is confirming why I left to begin with. One was hidden, not all.

Nor does it surprise me in the least either.

[AtheistCrusader]

94. Wink-wink-nudge-nudge say no more it's a tongue twister isn't better.

In a way it's worse, because it's not a slip of the tongue, etc. he MEANT it.

[JDPriestly]

111. He was trying to crack a joke. It was lame, but he should not have been banned.

I've seen much worse.

[AtheistCrusader]

115. I've seen worse, but usually accompanied by a ban.

[JDPriestly]

218. He was just delighting in the language.

The statement that he repeats that expression several times a day shows that he was not referring to a person but was just having fun with the fact that the words say something naughty in a clever way. How juvenile to ban someone over that post.

[littlewolf]

403. I have seen worse I have seen a member threaten

to do physical harm to a female member who was living in their car.
he was banned for a couple of weeks (I think) and low and behold
he came back none the worse for wear.

[AtheistCrusader]

410. I don't hold any illusions NYC_SKP is permanently banned. Going to enjoy while it lasts though.

[beam me up scottie]

125. If he had cracked a n****r joke about Obama would everyone still be okay with it?

Or a k**e joke about Bernie?

Just because it was a slur about a woman doesn't mean it's any more acceptable.

[GGJohn]

137. WHAT SLUR???

When did he use that offensive word?

[beam me up scottie]

152. He used a spoonerism to call Hillary that slur.

That kind of "who me?" ignorance as a defense is exactly what he was counting on to save him.

Stop pretending we're imagining it.

If he had done the same thing with any other slur it would be just as despicable.

[GGJohn]

168. You have zero proof of your claim and I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

IMO, it was an unjustified ban, especially as it's selectively enforced.

[beam me up scottie]

174. Zero proof that it's a spoonerism for the c-word?

I agree about selective banning in general, disagree that in this case it was unjustified.

I would be more than happy to see everyone who uses a slur (cleverly or otherwise) against a Dem banned.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

216. FIXED

I would be more than happy to see everyone who uses a slur (cleverly or otherwise) banned.

When he used that slur he was maligning all women including innocent bystanders like my mom and girlfriend.

[Adrahil]

422. What do you think he meant...

By the tongue twister reference, and the fact that that phrase is a well known spoonerism of that slur?

[JDPriestly]

165. He didn't. It's just ridiculous.

[JDPriestly]

180. Please post exactly what he said.

I think you will realize that he didn't really call anyone anything.

[beam me up scottie]

192. Others have reposted it here and it's in his journal.

I know what it means, google it if you don't.

[JDPriestly]

197. I found it. He did not use the temr to call anyone anything.

He just repeated it and said he used it many times a day. He was joking. This is a lot of fuss over nothing. The Mods should apologize and rethink their decision.

[beam me up scottie]

204. If he had repeated a joke/referred to a racial slur about Obama would people be excusing it?

The troll that used it first was banned.

And rightly so.

[Egnever]

226. POS used car salesman

Lives on!

Someone who has contributed to the site as long as NY had should not be insta banned over something so trivial. A brand new poster hurling it out is a totally different situation.

Hidden post yes hell I could even sort of see an immediate time out but given the reaction to the POS used car salesman line I find it incredibly odd.

[beam me up scottie]

229. Ban that one too.

I'm consistent.

I don't consider using any kind of slur "trivial".

[Egnever]

231. If that were the case i would have no problem with this ban

But it isnt..

[beam me up scottie]

236. I respect your opinion.

They should address this and soon.

Thanks for not trying to tell me what was said wasn't offensive.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

223. What I am learning is that we can traffic in the ugliest of slurs as long as they don't like ...

What I am learning is that we can traffic in the ugliest of slurs as long as they don't like the target.

[Egnever]

260. Well congrats on finally noticing that.

If there's one thing this place taught me it was that when it comes to the ability to have blinders the left and the right are just the same.

It's a human thing I am pretty sure.

[treestar]

280. Exactly

It's only a slur against women. Every excuse in the book is trotted out.

That poster rabidly hates our most likely nominee.

[treestar]

282. Your excuses are making me ill

I'm beginning to wonder if his HDS had some origins in misogyny. However, he was not going to last beyond her likely nomination. He was going to flame out then anyway.

[Cha]

393. Crack a Misogynistic "joke".. ? You're not doing Bernie or SKP any good. He needs to own it

and apologize.

I don't think pulling the ol "I was only joking" is going to get him re-instated..

"Troll"

Feel the Bern.

If she's not ready to handle spontaneous exchanges,

she is not fit for the Presidency. This is all smoke and mirrors, IMO. Yes, I am voting for Bernie but just thinking of her even pulling such a cunning stunt is pretty shockingly appalling.

I'm not sayin'--I'm just sayin'...

"There will be NO opportunities to interview Hillary Clinton; her speech will be her interview."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6775879
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6783979

How SKP responded..

"Welcome to DU, Feel the Bern! And yes, it's a Cunning Stunt!

I say that to myself every day, over an over.

It can be a tongue twister!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6775973

Posted it in his journal too.. just in case anyone missed his Hide..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/~NYC_SKP

EarlG (Administrator)

"Called Hillary Clinton the c-word. Thought he was being clever about it. He was not."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=221412&sub=trans

[JDPriestly]

395. He has been banned and cannot "own it" or "apologize."

That's what's wrong. He has been banned. Learning curve pointed downward. No chance to redeem himself. It's fine to object to some mistake an oldtimer makes, but banning him? That is too extreme. The post should have been removed, but banned? No way.

[Cha]

396. Others have been banned and got back in. If SKP wants to try he's not going to be using the flimsy

excuse that he "was joking".. or any of the other disingenuous reasons those trying to wiggle him out of it are using.

I hope he does make peace with it.. by being honest he may just get back. But not by trying to cover it up.

[Bonobo]

399. What made you change your opinion about Hillary so much?

Back in 2008, your rhetoric about her was WAY, WAY over the top.

[brush]

110. The phrase he used is well known, urban slang for the C-word.

Sorry, he knew exactly what he was doing.

What I don't get is why go there with such a disgusting term — just to be clever?

Not worth it, no place for that kind of stuff.

If it's allowed we'll soon see clever (in the users mind) tongue twisters for the N-word and all the other ethnic and sexual slurs on this board.

[GGJohn]

116. Really?

First I've ever heard of that.

[ScreamingMeemie]

126. I asked my father (aged 70) if he knew what it meant this evening.

"a really clever trick?"

When I told him what it meant,"Horseshit."

[GGJohn]

132. I'm just about the same age as your father and I had no clue.

I would have thought the same as your father.

[Duckhunter935]

135. Same here

Guess I am just getting old

[GGJohn]

140. Aren't we all. eom.

[Duckhunter935]

151. Well sir by the ribbon

you have me by a bit

[GGJohn]

163. I have that one also,

by then, I was a squadron commander in charge of 12 AH-64D Apaches.

[Duckhunter935]

169. Impressive sir

85-05

[ScreamingMeemie]

150. I am 45 and only knew about it because of DU.

Go figure.

[geek tragedy]

288. Ok, your daddy agrees with you, case closed.

Matt Drudge did the same thing in 2005 to Cindy Sheehan.

It is NOT a coincidence that the phrase always appears in relation to a woman whom the author hates with great intensity.

[ScreamingMeemie]

333. He's my dad, not my "daddy." I'm not 5. I think you need to search my comments

I was simply responding to someone who commented on age and understanding. My dad had no flipping idea what it meant, while I do. This was simply an anecdote, meant to neither support nor argue a point. Time to take a breath. Thank you.

[Puglover]

313. Back in the 70's these jokes were common.

Dirty by innuendo. You fill in the blank.

"What the difference between a nun in the bathtub and a nun at prayer?"

Well, the nun at prayer has hope in her soul..................

Ba dum dum.

Lame. Juvenile. Off color. Ha. Ha.

And "cunning stunt" was the punch line to one of those jokes. I don't remember the joke off hand.

I feel like you Meemie. Skp wasn't a pal. And I still don't know what he meant by that post. It was ill advised at best and at worst was pretty awful. The ban hammer was utterly absurd. I worked with admin and they know much I respected them. However just as I would say to a family member that screwed up. "You look really silly here."

I can't not think that there was a back story.

However the repeated keening and preaching and proselytizing by the usuals here while utterly predictable is vastly more puke worthy then that post.

Now excuse me please. I need go start an OP warning everyone about you should never trim your toe nails using a chain saw to show them all how concerned for their safety I am.

Meanwhile in other news a boat flips over in China and over 400 die. But DU has other more important matters to discuss.

[ScreamingMeemie]

334. ...

You always put it so much better than anyone else.

[Adrahil]

419. The phrase originated in the UK. It is fairly common there. n/t

[brush]

160. Google "cunning stunt". nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

227. Folks try to be clever.

I was on ESPN and this poster wrote "there are two groups that are perpetually aggrieved, one is a race and the other is a tribe." It didn't take a genius to know what groups he intended to defame.

[seaglass]

269. Well NYC-SKP responded to another DU post with that phrase in it so it wasn't new to him. n/t

[JDPriestly]

181. Could you please post exactly what he said or e-mail me on DU with the wording.

I think a lot of people have forgotten just what he said.

[JDPriestly]

202. He did not use the tongue twister to refer to anyone, at worst to refer to Hillary's

refusal to talk to the press -- an act, not a person.

And then he said he used it several times a day. Obviously not with regard to any particular person.

The Mods were wrong and should apologize.

The devil's in the details, and the details are that NYC_SKP did not call Hillary anything at all. The poster to whom he responded did. But NYC_SKP did not.

[Cha]

394. Is someone now trying to say he was Ignorant? 'Cause they're spinning their tops off coming up

with all kinds of excuses for him.

"Troll"

Feel the Bern.

If she's not ready to handle spontaneous exchanges,

she is not fit for the Presidency. This is all smoke and mirrors, IMO. Yes, I am voting for Bernie but just thinking of her even pulling such a cunning stunt is pretty shockingly appalling.

I'm not sayin'--I'm just sayin'...

"There will be NO opportunities to interview Hillary Clinton; her speech will be her interview."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6775879
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6783979

How SKP responded..

"Welcome to DU, Feel the Bern! And yes, it's a Cunning Stunt!

I say that to myself every day, over an over.

It can be a tongue twister!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6775973

Posted it in his journal too.. just in case anyone missed his Hide..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/~NYC_SKP

EarlG (Administrator)

"Called Hillary Clinton the c-word. Thought he was being clever about it. He was not."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=221412&sub=trans

SKP needs to apologize to the Admins and ask to be re-instated.. not try to wiggle out of it like others are trying to do for him.

They're not doing SKP or Bernie any good..

[Petrushka]

143. I agree! He didn't use the word in question; nor was he name-calling.

He was referring to Clinton's speech/interview---it, not her, viz:

"Welcome to DU, Feel the Bern! And yes, it's a Cunning Stunt!" (emphasis added)



Oh, well . . . . . . I'm offline for a couple days and THIS kinda shit happens? (**tsk!**)

[geek tragedy]

291. Did you think it was sweet and innocent when

Matt Drudge did the same thing to Cindy Sheehan in 2005?

[Petrushka]

351. Hm-m . . .

. . . Considering that I neither know---nor care---what Drudge said about Sheehan in 2005, your question (in my opinion) seems like a "sweet and innocent" attempt at baiting.

Have a nice day!

[Adrahil]

421. That is thin sheet you're hiding behind.

He very well knew what he was posting, and what it meant.

[Duckhunter935]

82. I know how you feel

[Electric Monk]

178. It took me awhile, but I found this exchange from Sept '13, re: history

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3678591

so I'm thinking EarlG remembered it, too, and I agree that if it was part of the reason it'd be nice to have it included in the ban message.

[Duckhunter935]

72. I do not speak for the admins

I just hope they hold all to the same standard. I am glad you are not an admin, because I know you do not hold posters to the same standard by how you run your group. The insults to us are allowed to stand and you block us so we have no way of responding. I especially like how you allow the sexual references to be posted.

Or the racist ones
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12628945#post2

[Electric Monk]

84. Individual posts are a matter for juries, not hosts. Hosts only lock threads and block disruptors.

I don't consider Hoyt to be a disruptor in GCRA. I'm not saying that all gunthusiasts are racist misogynist bullies, but, like Hoyt, I've come to realize that most racist misogynist bullies in America are gunthusiasts too. There's a pretty big overlap, even though your side likes to pretend otherwise.

NYC_SKP finally outed themselves as a misogynist, and that can't be denied.

[GGJohn]

87. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

Of course you don't consider Hoyt a disruptor.

[Duckhunter935]

97. A hosts job is also to moderate posts

this can be done by by sending an IM to the poster as some hosts have done to me so I can edit a post. This can also be done by you posting a post asking that person to tone it down. You as far as I know tend to do neither of those with one exception. After that person left in a huff and quit DU, you posted you will never do that again.

Lets look at that post in question, OK
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12628945#post2

I see you've hurt the feeling of the gun fanciers in the Gungeon. I was booted from their klan over

calling most gun lovers, "racists." I was right, and they prove it daily

He was talking about the RKBA group, he called that group the "KLAN" and called gun lovers "racist" and said DU members in the RKBA group prove it daily.

Seems that poster was talking about fellow DU members and calling them racist, YOU sir allowed it to stand without comment and doubled down about it in this post.

The vitriolic posts you allow in that group against DU members that support the RKBA is just a sad thing to see.

Have a great night

[Electric Monk]

100. Fuck the NRA and the elephant they rode in on. nt

[GGJohn]

108. Wow, that is soooooo original.

[Duckhunter935]

113. Did I hit a nerve?

The NRA was never a part of this nice dialog. It was about how a host has OPTIONS to moderate a group to cut down on some of the vitriol of this board.

Option 1 - lock posts
Option 2 - block posters
Option 3 - Send an IM or a post requesting that member tone it down. You seem to always forget that option and I am just reminding you about it.

[Electric Monk]

158. re: option 3, remember billh58? I'm sure you do.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12628413#post24

I asked him to tone it down a bit, and he self-deleted everything he could find and quit DU entirely. After that I decided that I'm not the "make sure everyone is nice to gunthusiasts on DU" police. If someone wants to say what they think about you and your gunthusiast buddies, go right ahead. If it's way over the top, a jury will take care of it. That's not my role.

[Electric Monk]

109. It is not your group, it is not meant for you. How about you try not reading it, Mr delicate flower?

[GGJohn]

112. Didn't take long for the name calling.

You don't disappoint.

[Duckhunter935]

130. nope nt

[Duckhunter935]

127. I read many groups as I like to be informed of all sides

Yes I have blocked for agreeing with a post in your group

Yep
a lot of people here see gun owners that way

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1262&pid=1458

and this is the post I agreed with....

The reason I asked was because some folks were talking about a policy for each firearm.
I carry a $1million cover policy on my home and land, $1 million on my business, have all my firearms that are not in use in steel fireproof safes installed in a concrete block room inside my home. I have both a alarm system and a fire suppression system.

However I live 30 miles from town on 40 acres and, depending who is on duty at the time, usually must give directions to LE if they are needed.

Despite all of this to many here I am a dirty, scum sucking future murderer with dreams of shooting small children and cats.

I find this disappointing to say the least, and somewhat discouraging.

I never broke the stated SOP but I was blocked from the group


It is sad that now you are resorting to name calling. I always think you are better than that.

[beevul]

344. Shrug. He blocked me for an OP I accidentally posted therein the middle of the night...

Shrug. He blocked me for an OP I accidentally posted there in the middle of the night, then deleted after like 2 minutes realizing my mistake.

Its not like there are actual written standards they follow.

[Duckhunter935]

345. Yes, I saw that

In my humble opinion, I think it is an abuse of power. You did not violate the SOP or TOS. He should not be able to block outside SOP violations. The amazing thing is comes over and also tries to run groups he is not a host in.

[beevul]

347. "... I've come to realize that most racist misogynist bullies in America are gunthusiasts too. "

That's a big insinuation, coming from the host of the Bloomberg group, where things like this are ignored:

Bloomberg claimed that 95 percent of murders fall into a specific category: male, minority and between the ages of 15 and 25. Cities need to get guns out of this group’s hands and keep them alive, he said.

http://www.aspentimes.com/news/14957190-113/michael-bloomberg-calls-colorados-decision-on-legal-pot-stupid

You haven't much leg to stand on there, fella.

[Electric Monk]

350. Um, that's not a link to DU's GCRA group. In fact, I haven't even seen that link before. nt

[beevul]

354. Who said it was? N/T

[TransitJohn]

172. You expect consistency and fairness at DU?

Have you not seen the history of purges over the years here? They're just getting warmed up. Gonna be a long primary.

[morningfog]

3. I don't disagree. It has been permitted in the past,

I hope the standard is clear and consistently enforced now.

[ScreamingMeemie]

13. ^This.

[Buzz Clik]

16. That seems to be a recurring theme. You're aware of someone using that word and not paying a price?

I have seen the ax fall every time, but I don't pretend to read a high percentage of posts.

[morningfog]

23. I know it happened at least once. And that may be the

only instance. I asked for examples of posters being banned for using the word and haven't seen any yet.

In the long thread there is a link to a poster who called Ann Romney the word, uncoded, had the post hidden by still posts. I have no idea if there are more like that.

[Buzz Clik]

45. I see.

You have to follow through to see if a banning has occurred, and I have not been motivated to do that. The hidden message is pretty consistent.

[840high]

55. Nope. The ax has not fallen every time.

[cherokeeprogressive]

66. Does posting links to pages whose very existence is to use the word against a woman count?

I think it's hypocritical if the answer is no.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5784073

[Buzz Clik]

99. Never been a fan of the Rude Pundit

... But I never saw anything that crude in there before. I would say linking to THAT article would be bannable. Which begs the question...

[cherokeeprogressive]

300. You clever devil (no caps! LOL) n/t

[kath]

39. With the jury system, there doesn't seem to be any standard that is"clear and consistently enforced"

Anymore.
Virtually everything seems to be a crapshoot, depending on who gets on the jury.

[ScreamingMeemie]

133. And whether or not that juror applies his/her dislike of the alerted upon.

That one really bites.

[Duckhunter935]

139. Yes it does

especially when you have an alert stalker. The jury blacklist helps some though.

[ScreamingMeemie]

149. I seriously try not to even look at the poster when I get called to a jury.

One tonight... I have to admit I was stunned to see who the poster was. I had thought much better of him than that.

[Bobbie Jo]

348. Agree with this completely

I've seen some of the most vicious attacks allowed to stand and some of the most innocuous comments hidden, depending on whether or not the juror likes or agrees with the alerted poster.

Yes, it's a crapshoot and a popularity contest.

[bettyellen]

5. Thank you. It's not a "mistake" that's easy for a decent person to make

[NuclearDem]

8. It isn't.

I've gone utterly fucking ballistic on people here and have earned some very well-deserved hides, but I never even considered calling the targets of those posts anything like that.

[marym625]

18. Funny

Coming from someone that calls another woman a tool.

I guess being nasty is allowed in degrees and who is being called what

[stevenleser]

30. Do you really not see the difference? nt

[marym625]

50. I see something demeaning, nasty and uncalled for

If you're going to ban words that are mean, then ban words that are mean.

And frankly, I think the tool comment was much worse as it was directed at another person on DU. A person that actually sees it.

[stevenleser]

142. We don't ban words that are mean. We ban words that are slurs. There is an important difference

Saying "You are an asshole" is mean. That's not banworthy.

Saying you are the n-word for African Americans, or k-word for Jews, or the C word for women is a slur against a particular group.

[marym625]

157. Sorry, but calling a woman a tool

Is pretty demeaning. There's no excuse for it. And to ban something because it demeans a group and not because it demeans an individual is just an excuse to allow individuals to be demeaned.

Either demeaning someone is wrong or it's not. Whether it's a group or one single person

And to feign anger at word being used that demeans women and someone being banned for using it, while calling a woman a tool is pretty hypocritical

[stevenleser]

162. Calling someone "a tool" is not a slur. It's mean, but it's not a slur. This is not hard.

I find it highly unlikely you don't know exactly what the deal is but are feigning ignorance.

[marym625]

234. and I find your excuse of calling an individual a tool

As OK because it is not a "slur" to be reprehensible. It is you that are feigning ignorance here.

And again, to do that while objecting to a slur against women is, minimally, hypocritical

[stevenleser]

252. I made no excuse. I called it mean. It's still not the same thing as a slur.

This is pretty basic.

[marym625]

318. Being mean and nasty is being mean and nasty. Can't get more basic than that.

It's either OK or it's not. Again, can't get more basic than that.

[MrMickeysMom]

389. I couldn't agree more, marym...

I thought wearing a set of blinders would more likely be for a triple crown winner, not DU folks… but, there you go.

[marym625]

390. Thank you, Mr.MickeysMom

I think it's pretty basic. Guess people can convolute anything

[bettyellen]

76. Those that overlook sexism and racism always play the victim themselves

They tolerate that crap for whatever reasons - and it's always a bigger sin to point out their "tolerance" is anything but tolerant,

It's a formula the RW have down pat.

[marym625]

103. Why not respond to me?

I didn't excuse anything. I stated very clearly that being nasty is obviously tolerated in degrees.

You, on the other hand, use the excuse that you used one nasty term instead of another to get away with being plain, outright, mean.

[stevenleser]

164. She probably has better things to do than deal with your feigned ignorance on the subject. nt

[marym625]

170. Yeah. That is it.

What a flimsy excuse

Btw, I am not feigning anything. I am quite clear in my thoughts and words. Excuses are what are flimsy.

[Egnever]

264. .

[99Forever]

279. Indeed, Mary, indeed.

Excuses are what they live by.

[KingCharlemagne]

303. Hypocrisy is the tribute vice pays to virtue, as was said by a very

wise Frenchman (La Rochefoucauld) many years ago.

[Cha]

400. I know I do.

Congrats again! Beautiful family, Steven~

[Cha]

398. Yes, bettyellen,they're spinning their tops off trying to excuse a Misogynistic slur against Hillary

Clinton by NYC_SKP. The rw is over practiced at playing the victim.. it's sickening to watch. To see anyone doing it.

If some other dude would have hurled that stupid ugly crap at Elizabeth Warren I think they'd be screaming for his head. Instead they're making up lots of different excuses.

"Troll"

Feel the Bern.

If she's not ready to handle spontaneous exchanges,

she is not fit for the Presidency. This is all smoke and mirrors, IMO. Yes, I am voting for Bernie but just thinking of her even pulling such a cunning stunt is pretty shockingly appalling.

I'm not sayin'--I'm just sayin'...

"There will be NO opportunities to interview Hillary Clinton; her speech will be her interview."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6775879
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6783979

How SKP responded..

"Welcome to DU, Feel the Bern! And yes, it's a Cunning Stunt!

I say that to myself every day, over an over.

It can be a tongue twister!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6775973

Posted it in his journal too.. just in case anyone missed his Hide..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/~NYC_SKP

EarlG (Administrator)

"Called Hillary Clinton the c-word. Thought he was being clever about it. He was not."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=221412&sub=trans

He needs to own it and apologize.. and I don't think using any of the excuses that some are throwing out there are going to work.

Like "he was only joking" "he really didn't say it.." "it wasn't directed at Hillary.." ".. the Admin is biased.." "..he was ignorant of what it meant.." I've seen it all and more.

Everyone makes mistakes.. but, you get nowhere unless you own up to it and don't try to cover it up. Apologize and see what happens.

[bettyellen]

409. Yep. I've seen people flailing and posting old PMs to prove other people were mean once too-

To them. They really think that using a slur is the same as someone here not being nice to them as an individual. There's just no comparison at all.

I see today people who have seen the links and made excuses for them still asking others to provide them. Playing stupid so they can play stupid. Yet they demand to be taken seriously, lol.

And then there the old saw - the real oppression is elsewhere and privileged you don't care.

I just can't abide this bullshit. If you're happy to excuse sexist and racist slurs then you're fine on 80% of the Internet. But if you're in a progressive space that is trying to embrace diversity it's not okay. They have to grow up and accept the TOS instead of thinking the rules apply only to those they do not like.

[Cha]

411. Well if they want old stuff of "being mean" then here's an OP of SKP's around the Sandyhook tragedy

that's as mean spirited as they come.. terribly trollish behavior.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022002711#post15

Of course there's no comparison.. unless they were called a misogynistic slur.. and guess what?! That still doesn't excuse SKP.

I wouldn't have searched for this if there weren't so many trying to excuse his behavior with dumb excuses.

It really is weird.. some of the people who are acting stupidly about this.. who otherwise aren't.

[giftedgirl77]

47. Wow, just wow....

[sheshe2]

92. I have stayed off ...

every single one of the threads. You know why? They hurt. Worst slur you could call a woman. So much disrespect.The defenders? I don't have words.

You know something, SKP has been very kind to me here. He has helped me with my computer and more. I know he has had multiple surgeries. Yet, his venom toward Hillary and his last comment, the c word, over the top and so incredibly hurtful to women.

This makes me so very sad.

[GGJohn]

101. What is it going to take to make people understand that he never used that offensive word?

Point out where he used that word?

[sheshe2]

118. Go look it up I had to.

I also had to google what he said. Urban Dictionary.

You think the admins are lying?

[GGJohn]

123. Post the link where he actually used that offensive word.

And why the selective enforcement?

[Petrushka]

195. He not only didn't use the c-word; his comment referred to "it": Hillary's speech/interview, not her

"Go look it up I had to."? Urban Dictionary? Really? (**tsk**) Instead, I looked up what NYC_Skip said, viz:

"Welcome to DU, Feel the Bern! And yes, it's a Cunning Stunt!"

. . . and, as an old biddy in her 80th ride around the Sun, I'm witnessing a race for the 2016 nomination that's off to a piss-poor start when it comes to the supposed need to silence dissenting opinions . . . nothing like free-for-all eight years ago.

Oh, well . . .

[stevenleser]

153. Did you read EarlG's banning statement? It's crystal clear.

"Called Hillary Clinton the c-word. Thought he was being clever about it. He was not."

No one was fooled by NYC_SKP's post:

NYC_SKP
55. Welcome to DU, Feel the Bern! And yes, it's a Cunning Stunt!

I say that to myself every day, over an over.

It can be a tongue twister!

--------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cunning+stunt

--------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spoonerism
spoonerism
noun spoo·ner·ism \ˈspü-nə-ˌri-zəm\
: a humorous mistake in which a speaker switches the first sounds of two or more words

[Cha]

262. And, added "tongue Twister" at the end just to make sure we got it..

He even "put it in his journal he was so proud of it". As I found out here..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6782293

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6782326

[Ed Suspicious]

122. What makes that slur so particularly heinous?

The Brits use it all the time. Nobody's undies are in a bunch over it. I'm not saying that I want to use it or anything, but I am curious how the word has been ascribed so much power.

[stevenleser]

159. Might as well ask an African American person why they find the "n-word" "particularly heinous"

They get to decide.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

199. What makes the f word so offensive, the members of the Westboro Baptist Church use it all the time.

eom

[giftedgirl77]

128. I've stayed off them as well but mainly because of the fact

that people are defending the post & I don't feel like getting into a pissing contest with people who want to play the willful ignorance card. I don't care that he's gotten banned one way or the other simply because I have seen some very nasty posts come from him. I do however think that if they are going to ban people like this they should do it for across the board because I've seen some overtly racist shit get posted & recc'd through the roof.

[sheshe2]

141. The pissing contest is the three posts to me before yours. Figures.

Agree here.

I do however think that if they are going to ban people like this they should do it for across the board because I've seen some overtly racist shit get posted & recc'd through the roof.

[giftedgirl77]

155. Yeah, I saw them also. Tried explaining it to one of them but

I'm pretty sure it's a lost cause.

[marym625]

237. I'm assuming by your response

You think it's okay to call a woman a tool while complaining about a word being used that is a slur against women.

Wow. Just wow.

[giftedgirl77]

245. I think your attempt to even begin to try & link the two

as equivalent in anyway, shape or form is incredibly special.

[marym625]

246. and I find the dismissive attitude

About calling a woman a tool, especially while complaining about a word that demeans women, hypocritical and misogynistic.

[giftedgirl77]

247. Your opinion is duly noted.

However, tool generally a unisex type of insult much like jackass or dumbshit. So to try & equate it to the term c&+t which is blatantly derogatory towards women is just silly. But I've seen you trying to push this meme all day so trying to discuss it with you is pointless.

[marym625]

248. As I said

Degrees of nastiness is obviously acceptable here. A pointed, mean, uncalled for attack is all good. It is only when a group is insulted that there's an issue.

I have responded to anyone that responded to me.

Defend either or none.

[bettyellen]

324. You seem to think sexist or racist slurs are equivalent to words like "tool". Interesting take on

Things. False equivalence is a useful technique for some.

[marym625]

326. Convenience in using one word, rather than another, to hurt someone

Is what is a useful technique for some. I have not said the words are equivalent. In fact, I clearly stated that being mean is excused in degrees here.

If you think that saying to one person that they're a tool, or whatever other choice word you might use, is excusable because the word isn't equivalent to another, you are excusing being hurtful. I see no excuse for it. And that is all it is, a convenient excuse to be hurtful and mean. Period

[bettyellen]

327. As I said before, the RW finds those who make excuses for sexism and racism quite useful.

Context matters.

[marym625]

331. Your attempts to call me right wing are laughable

But your excuses to be nasty are just plain sad.

I do hope that you will rethink how you speak to people. Especially to kind,older women on this board.

[Cha]

392. I admire your patience and grace, giftedgirl.. because I was thinking

it's incredibly stupid. and, no need to even try to explain the difference if they don't know a misogynistic slur directed at Hillary Clinton when they see one. They're campaigning for Bernie through misogyny.

"Troll"

Feel the Bern.

If she's not ready to handle spontaneous exchanges,

she is not fit for the Presidency. This is all smoke and mirrors, IMO. Yes, I am voting for Bernie but just thinking of her even pulling such a cunning stunt is pretty shockingly appalling.

I'm not sayin'--I'm just sayin'...

"There will be NO opportunities to interview Hillary Clinton; her speech will be her interview."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6775879
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6783979

How SKP responded..

"Welcome to DU, Feel the Bern! And yes, it's a Cunning Stunt!

I say that to myself every day, over an over.

It can be a tongue twister!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6775973

Posted it in his journal too.. in case anyone missed his cleverness that was a hide.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/~NYC_SKP

EarlG (Administrator)

"Called Hillary Clinton the c-word. Thought he was being clever about it. He was not."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=221412&sub=trans

SKP needs to apologize to the Admins and ask to be re-instated.. not try to wiggle out of it like others are trying to do for him.

[Starry Messenger]

6. I'll be pretty wary of a few people after today.

Someone said they cared more about humanity than about "PC." That hurt my heart. If you brush off use of that word, you are supporting the dehumanization of half of humanity.

[bettyellen]

19. They have confused "going along to get along" with humanity....

Which is frankly, gutless and selfish more than anything.

[Starry Messenger]

25. +++

[freshwest]

64. I'm much more wary lately. And sorry it hurts your heart, Starry. You're one of the best. n/t

Last edited Fri Jun 5, 2015, 01:06 AM - Edit history (1)

[GGJohn]

69. So am I, being alert stalked makes one wary. eom.

[Duckhunter935]

85. Yes it does

And I know who mine is too

[Starry Messenger]

80. Love ya, fresh!

[shenmue]

7. That is a Not Cool word

Anyone who has known a woman for any amount of time can kind of figure that out.

[Duckhunter935]

12. of course he did not use THAT word

But others have and are still members in good standing

[NuclearDem]

21. He danced around it, and anyone who's older than 15 knew what he meant.

C*** disguised by a spoonerism is still c***.

[Duckhunter935]

28. Well I am much older than that

and I did not and so do many others I assume. We are not into that kind of thing.

[giftedgirl77]

52. Just because you don't understand it doesn't make it factual.

It was linked to repeatedly in the original post the actual definition of the statement that got him banned.

[Duckhunter935]

56. the fact is the word was never said

it was a poor choice and it should have been hidden or he should have been put on a vacation. That word has actually been posted by active members and nothing happened, they are active today.

[giftedgirl77]

63. The word was said in a fun little way that he thought he was

being clever, so much so that he apparently felt the need to add the post to his journal (just found that out by reading below). The post was hidden 5-2, irregardless of if he came outright & said it the words are still intended for use in the same manner. Denying the culpability is just silly. As far as bannings go I think people should be careful what they wish for but it should definitely be fair across the board.

[Duckhunter935]

77. no, we will have to disagree

THE WORD was never said, it was insinuated and some got that, and others did not. But facts are indeed facts, that "C" word was never said by the poster. You just can not make up facts, I am sorry.

Time for bed, early morning. Have a nice night.

[kath]

43. Those who have should be banned as well.

Selective enforcement sucks.

[Buzz Clik]

9. You do understand that wasn't quite what happened here...

... the person in question danced along the line -- just too close to the line for those with the power of the axe.

[morningfog]

15. Exactly. He was already close and just sealed the deal.

When I said that before, my post was alerted on.

[dlwickham]

10. preach it

[ScreamingMeemie]

11. Then admins have a job to do. Cleaning house of everyone who's ever used it.

Sadly, that won't happen. While I'd support it if it happened, in the face of it not happening, this ban has a bias.

[Duckhunter935]

14. Yes it does

especially when THE word was not even used.

[peace13]

22. That is the point.

People think he used the word. I don't have a dog in this fight but I am smart enough to know that the word in question was not used.

[NuclearDem]

26. It was used. It was covered by the thinnest of veils, but it was still used.

[Duckhunter935]

32. I am sorry you are just factually wrong on this one

link to the post with THE WORD. He may have insinuated, but he did not use it.

[NuclearDem]

41. It was the spirit, not the letter.

If someone had come here and called the president a "nucking f****r" we wouldn't be having this discussion. We all would know exactly what they meant by that.

[Ed Suspicious]

136. That's not the same at all. Cunning stunt was read by many just as it is written.

Why aren't we banning for use of the word "thug?" It seems to be agreed upon that thug is code. I just don't understand why the post wasn't alerted on and sent to a jury or why there is not system in place to warn the poster instead of taking an ax to his neck because an admin was in the mood to do so.

[peace13]

37. And someone is covered with the thinnest of skin.

I just don't see it. I have watched both sides out here attack each other with bullshit arguments. Frankly, watching people ignore facts and history is more disturbing than a thinly veiled anything. There has been no room for discussion since this election talk began.

[Duckhunter935]

44. Very true statement, thanks

[Duckhunter935]

35. It is amazing

things are said that are just not factual and passed off as facts

[unblock]

48. i don't have a dog in the fight but the word wasn't "used" only in the most narrow sense.

spammers know they can get past automated mail blockers by using tricks like putting spaces between letters.

e.g., "e n l a r g e m e n t".

see? ha, ha, i didn't "use" the e-word, right?


the rule against c-word usage isn't a programmatic one an the admins shouldn't say, wow, what a clever way of circumventing our intent, we'll let you and anyone else who wants to use that word get away with it as long as you use an obvious encoding that would trip up a weakly programmed machine.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

49. A lot of people don't "use" that word.

This guy doesn't use it:

http://www.salon.com/2008/01/25/hillary_clinton_4/

Neither do people who passed this pic around in 2008. I no longer speak to an old acquaintance (Obama supporter) over this one and the lashing I gave him over it.

Totally innocent. Who ?wha? Me?:

http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/today_in_hillary_bashing_and_defending


Or this innocent political group:


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/19/msnbc-hosts-founder-of-an_n_87356.html



Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.

[Agschmid]

53. Oh...

That wasn't rain?

Shit.

[KMOD]

70. .

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. Res ipsa loquitur

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=cunning%20stunt

[roamer65]

27. I am late to the game.

Did the banned individual actually use the word in question?

[Duckhunter935]

36. No

[roamer65]

46. Interesting...n/t

[giftedgirl77]

58. See post 33 below...

[NuclearDem]

17. Frankly, applying the banhammer enforcement from this point on would do just fine

Yes, it would be very difficult to purge everyone who's used it in the past, but I think after how public this one's been, there should be no excuse for people using it down the line.

[ScreamingMeemie]

20. For me to buy it, they'd have to go back and ban those people.

The posts are easy enough to search.

[Duckhunter935]

42. I agree on this

even more as he never did say THE word itself and he was banned

[herding cats]

105. Retroactive banning? Are you being serious or jesting here?

No place I've ever posted has ever done anything like that. That seems a bit extreme even to me, a person who despises that word used as a pejorative.

[ScreamingMeemie]

124. What happened today was extreme in light of what's happened here in the past.

That, or I don't buy it. No warning of an automatic ban for use (or allusion to in this case) that horrendous word. Sorry.

[herding cats]

95. Or, at least from here forward.

The precedent is set now. So be it, I'm fine with that. If you use that language as a pejorative you're asking to be banned.

Of course if NYC_SKP apologizes and is allowed back, all this discussion is going to amount to nothing.

[ScreamingMeemie]

98. No, going back. it's been easy enough for me to search.

For the money being brought in, admins can do the same. Otherwise, I don't buy it at all.

[herding cats]

107. I saw where you said that above after I posted this.

I replied there. I'm impatient like that, sorry.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6782501

[ScreamingMeemie]

120. I am being deadly serious.

Unless some sort of warning was posted between those horrendous posts and this one, I don't buy it.

[herding cats]

134. I think I'm understanding now.

Correct me if I'm misinterpreting something. I'm working off what you're giving me and not trying to put words into your mouth.

Others here have used the word as a pejorative and not been banned. If the owners are to be consistent they're to ban everyone who has ever used the word as a pejorative in the history of the site.

My question is, has any other person ever in the history of the site ever been banned for using the same language in a similar context?

[ScreamingMeemie]

147. Not that I recall in my 12 years of existence here.

And not that anyone has linked to.

I have seen people banned for a history of disruptive behavior which may or may not have included several instances of nasty language (which I abhor across the board--I'm crazy like that).

My comment is basically a nice way of saying there was a hidden agenda behind this banning (in my opinion, and no, I support no one in particular in this upcoming election because it's becoming a rather large joke as the years go by--and in case people have their stenos and pencils out while reading this), and unless the admins care to comment on why this comment deserved a ban while others passed by and no rules have changed, I don't buy EarlG's excuse. I've got nothing to lose. It's their site at the end of the day, but I still can call bullshit.

[herding cats]

233. I can totally respect what you're saying.

I don't have enough information of my own to say if I agree with you or not, but that's not really important here. I do understand what you're getting at, though. I did my own Google and found several instances of things which disturbed me. Including a post about the exact same phrase used here where the poster in question obviously knew what the phrase in question means. That was disappointing, but not totally unexpected I suppose. It was mostly old post, from back when the previous incarnation of the site existed. Which doesn't negate the potential agenda you're talking about.

I don't have a candidate either, and I likely won't for a while yet. I don't care who is taking notes of that.

I've just spent copious amounts of time researching this. I need a life or a hobby, or something. In the end I can't disagree consistence is needed, but some do mention that the owner who banned the person is more likely to ban for such offenses than the other owner.

My takeaway after all my reading is, we all get disillusioned. Even the owners of the site didn't expect what they ended up having to deal with here over time. You couldn't pay me enough money to have to wade through all the unrest, anger and angst they're expected to manage here. However, I admit I deal with a myriad of politically verbose people daily in my work, and may be a bit overly empathetic on that point. Our ideals feel so beautiful when we find them in our youth, and they pain us so deeply when they're ripped from our grasp when we begin to mature.

[yuiyoshida]

29. I hate that word as well...

As much as I hate the Asian slur words..

[DemocratSinceBirth]

240. My gf is from the Philippines so I heard most of em./NT

[Snobblevitch]

31. After lurking on DU for a while,

and after posting for only a week, I have a question on this topic.

What pejorative terms are ok to use when referring to public figures? Does it matter who the public figure is?

Which of these are ok?

mo********er
fu****ad
fu***ad
co******er
cu*****er
bu******er

That's all I could come up with at this time.

[steve2470]

259. straightforward answer here

If you want to be 100% in the clear, use none of them. Otherwise, a jury may rule against you. Others may not like the word implied, even though there are asterisks. The admins may not like it.

The co*******er one is homophobic, so, not a good idea.

The bu********er one is also homophobic.

If you disagree with me, fine. I gave you a straightforward answer. Welcome to DU.

[Snobblevitch]

270. My question was mostly rhetorical

since I never intend to use those again, with or without asterisks.

[Cha]

33. This is exactly what was said.. just not as clever as he thought.. If this were said about Elizabeth

Warren.. the whole place would want the person banned.. including me.

"Welcome to DU, Feel the Bern! And yes, it's a Cunning Stunt!

I say that to myself every day, over an over.

It can be a tongue twister!

[beam me up scottie]

34. Thank you.

He was so proud of his cleverness he entered the post into his journal.

No one has been banned because they didn't support Hillary, that's a bullshit excuse.

[Cha]

38. Wow.. thank you for getting that, scottie.

[beam me up scottie]

51. No problem, Cha.

As a Bernie supporter I don't want to be associated with that kind of behaviour.

No excuse for it.

[BlueJazz]

60. As an Australian the word does not have the same shock value as in the states. Having said that...

...,even I would not use it though. I certainly respect the values here. When in Rome and all that.

[Violet_Crumble]

267. Yeah, same here...

I used it with the prefix 'evil' to describe Joe Hockey after his first budget, but I'd never use it at DU, work, or in front of my parents

[BlueJazz]

302. A special Hi to you.

[Fairgo]

366. Aussie slurs

I've been called a "cobber", should I take offence? Is Wanker offensive or is that just what you call Americans here? Should Pom be the "P " word? Excuse the tangent, but as long as we are trying to figure out our Slur-to-English glossary...

[BlueJazz]

369. Cobber is good (mate) Wanker=depends on who's there. Only thing I've truly noticed..

...about the whole weird thing in the USA is the Women rule the slurs.
Call a women in the USA a private body part= bad
Call a Man in the USA a private body part= no big deal

I just go along with the program...I never know what-the-fuck is going on anyway...

[Violet_Crumble]

420. I find it really difficult to know what's what when it comes to all this...

I was wondering last night whether it's viewed as bad in the US if someone calls a man the dreaded c word.

Another thing I was wondering was after I read a post in one of these many threads that said that the word's totally misogynistic because of the history of oppression towards women in the US. As there's not much difference in the trajectory of women's rights in the US and here, I don't understand why the word's treated so differently there than it is here.

[Zamen]

377. I think I was once called a "seppo" over there?

As in septic tank/Yank.

I just laughed.

[JDPriestly]

61. That is not what Skip did. Hw made a joke about the word, but he did not call anyone

the word. I wish more people would read more carefully. The statements by so many impose the reality of the word from their own minds on the words that NYC_SKP wrote.

He did not actually write out any word. He used language less clearly a "naughty" word than those who write *$&(#@)."

I think the fuss is based on something other than what NYC_SKP wrote.

[daredtowork]

121. Thank you for clarifying this...sort of

I've been confused about how NYC_SKP was "clever" about using the C word without actually using it. Since I didn't see the post, I'm still confused. While I loathe the use of the C word, even in a joke, I would like to know if the room for interpretation here is wide enough as to make this a political maneuver from NYC-SKP haters.

For the last 24 hours there has been a lot of overwrought grave-dancing about NYC-SKP, as if the banning needs to be approved by the community somehow. I hope that doesn't start to take on the aspect of the loyalty oath.

A couple days ago NYC_SKP was annoying Hillary supporters with some post about how she wasn't managing her free event on Roosevelt Island well.

I didn't bother to read either side. The concern did look like a reach, but the "Hillary under attack" complainers always seem like they are just shadowing how their own group attacks other candidates - so no one was worth listening to.

But then suddenly someone gets banned? Huh? On the forum where people who shade too far left get identified with "freepers"? WTF?

I can't really make a judgment on it since I didn't see the evidence. All I can say is that I hope the same standards get applied to people across political cliques equally here.

[JDPriestly]

221. It's not the fault of the Bernie supporters if Hillary is not really doing as well as her

supporters would like. She gave a good speech today. It was stodgy but she said was very important. She dealt with some important issues. I'm a Bernie supporter, and i think it is good when the candidates stick to the issues.

[SunSeeker]

65. K & R

[Turbineguy]

67. Between the

No Hint Of Humor Allowed Brigade and the Right-Wing-Nut-Job Hurt-Feelings Protection Team, there really isn't much wiggle room.

[merrily]

73. Gee and I would have thought a single, 1000 post thread would have sufficed for satiety.

Silly me.

[murielm99]

75. This was a justified banning.

I don't care about this person's longevity or popularity.

This will be the last post I read about this person, and the last reply I make about this incident. I don't come here for stupid squabbling. I come here for discussion.

[elleng]

78. and no one did.

[Chan790]

79. I'm going to admit to being a bit daft sometimes and it may be the result of being HoH...

but I don't get how one gets c**t from "cunning stunt" unless it's some sort of homophone (which I wouldn't catch because...like I said, HoH) or a Cockney rhyming-slang thing.

If it was intentional, then that's unacceptable...but this feels like one of those magic-eye puzzles that never worked for me. I feel like it's obvious to everybody else and going over my head.

Edit: Oh duh. HoH: hard-of-hearing

[yewberry]

353. It's a wordplay.

A spoonerism is when you swap sounds between two words. Jelly beans becomes belly jeans and master plan becomes plaster man.

[nadinbrzezinski]

355. It is not just you

and many here didn't either.

And those showing the scalp cannot accept that we are not daft, it is simply not clear. One even went so far as to bring a post from Drudge

[peace13]

86. The Pope was traveling on an airplane, working on a crossword puzzle.

He was stumped and turned to his aide and asked,'What is a word ending in u n t that is often used to refer to a woman?' The aide replied,' aunt'. The Pope replied, 'Oh...Got an eraser?'

Now this may offend some, not all. Just as a thinly veiled word smith may. We have to choose the fights around here, chuckle when we can and realize that things will get worse before they get better! Peace and love to all! And remember, five beautiful deep breaths do the mind and body a world of good!

[Bluenorthwest]

311. A notable difference in your joke is that there is not an individual woman tied to the implied slur

and the punchline is that the Pope has a dirty mind. Very different from a joke in which the slur is aimed at an individual.

Another point about your joke is that SKP felt very strongly that no one should insult religion or religious figures, and that anyone who does should admit that they are asking for strong reactions. Making jokes about the Pope was a big no no in his world. His views after the Hebdo killings were very, very clear.
So your example is ironic considering the views the departed had so strongly expressed.

[peace13]

323. Another difference is that mine is a pretend Pope!

As for the the slur, I never actually saw the word #unt used by the poster. And... As a woman I think a word is a word, it doesn't mean I am that. Ms. Clinton is probably laughing her head off at all of this. She should be the last person to squawk about name calling. She is a politician for goodness sake. If I call a male politician a rat @8?4er it doesn't mean that I am insulting the entire male population. Women are strong, smart humans and they do not need this pretend outrage. If we want to respect women we will protect the children from male predators! Now that I can get behind!

[bettyellen]

330. Are POC color "pretending outrage" at the use of n***+*r?

That seems to follow?

[2banon]

381. I was raised and I taught my daughter that the N word was never to pass her lips for all the obvious

reasons.


But lo and behold, these days - every.where.here.in.Oakland. I hear that word spoken, shouted, and wrapped endlessly. Everyone (apparently) is a N*****, including white women. It's like shorthand for any and everyone. male female, black, white. I am coming to think that word no longer has the traditionally hurtful implications of negative slur it had when I was just a kid many decades ago.

But I still can't bring myself to accept it when I hear it. It will always remain in the category of foul/potty mouthed/racists words. I don't like hearing the B word either especially in the public fora.

But I would be completely dishonest to portend that I've never used the B and C word myself with all that those words imply. and then some.

men and women are equal in their abilities to be disgusting human beings. selfish, stupid, power hungry, greedy, hypocritical, diabolic, just plain evil.

So, I call it as I see it regardless of gender.

[AtheistCrusader]

90. Damn skippy.

I mean uh... You know what I mean.

[GGJohn]

91. I agree that anyone calling anyone else that offensive word should be banned,

however, NYC_SKP didn't call anyone that offensive word and the ban was, IMO, unjustified.

[Electric Monk]

114. (because gunz) nt

[GGJohn]

119. (because hypocrite) eom.

[deurbano]

148. Do you know what the poster he/she was responding to said?

[Lizzie Poppet]

371. I do.

I've seen the exchange. It remains my opinion that Skip intended his reply as mockery of the troll's original...but it was vaguely constructed (and completely tone-deaf). It also remains my opinion that banning a long-time poster who put a ton of work into this site (without any sort of warning or talking-to) was a grotesque overreaction on EarlG's part.

I'd like to think Skip's being pro-Bernie and pro-2nd Amendment had nothing to do with this terrible decision. I sure hope I'm right about tat...

[deurbano]

383. I finally saw it posted somewhere by someone who screen captured it (I guess?)

I don’t think he should be banned, but it also concerns me that so many (including DU women of my own advanced age) seem to think it’s no big deal to use the c-word (or a spoonerism that means the same) on this forum. I mean, when I was young, I would (for laughs and shock value) call my female friends (the ones I KNEW would find this funny), “you dripping cunt.” I used it in the way marginalized groups appropriate hateful or dated language to empower and amuse themselves. (Like when my daughter performed with a disabled women’s theater group-- Wry Crips.) But I would never say the word to a woman not comfortable with that in-group joke, and I find it especially troubling when used by “progressive” men.

NYC_SKP was certainly aware of what the spoonerism meant, given his previous response to a Sarah Palin post that included the term, and that response also leaves me unconvinced he meant it as a mockery of the troll's original post this time:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7059909#7059935

And I really don’t get all his Sturm und Drang about how allowing the use of “cracker” (of all terms) is destroying DU, when he seems so much less incensed about a known spoonerism of cunt:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025932415#post9

Many seem too willing to overlook misogynist language, and give it a pass, when they wouldn’t do the same with slurs directed at other historically oppressed groups, so I am sympathetic to EarlG's dilemma. I can't speak to the possibility that NYC_SKP's political positions made him more of a target, since I haven't paid any attention to that, but of course, any policy should be consistent.

That said, we live in a world without strong sanctions against misogynist slurs, so apparently more education is needed, even among "progressives." I think someone said it could be a "teachable moment," and I'm all for that... but that would also require the recognition that misogynist language is unacceptable, which doesn't seem to be a universally held value here. Still, I don't think he should be banned, and I agree the totality of his contribution should be considered.

I’m also for Sanders, and I’ve been a fan since I voted for him when he was running for governor of VT in 1976. I met him in Albany, CA (or maybe Berkeley) when he was on a book tour around 1998, and we chatted with him about VT (since we had recently been back to visit), including about how he had helped make Burlington much more wheelchair accessible while mayor. (And my daughter got a nice photo with him she can now post on Facebook, once I scan and send it her!)

So… it's not like I'm a giant Clinton supporter, but I greatly respect her position as the first woman to actually have a real shot at being president. (Historic and precedent setting-- a big deal, in and of itself, even though I disagree with her on some important issues.) The sexism in 2008 was very disturbing. With all the passions of the primary season, I wish to god people would just focus on positions, legislative records and other actually relevant information. Hey, at least I haven’t heard (on DU) how OLD is Clinton is, lately! (Baby steps…)

[Lizzie Poppet]

385. I definitely don't deny it was a stupid, stupid post on Skip's part.

At best, it was tone-deaf. At worst, it was deliberately offensive in a misogynist way (although given his history, I doubt that was the intent). We seem to agree that that history, one of support for progressive causes and putting in a lot of work on the board moderating forums and groups, should have ameliorated the penalty. A time-out and an ass-chewing would have been proportional, in my estimation. A ban was a gross overreaction.

I'm not a Hillary supporter (she's not nearly liberal enough for my preference and I consider her ethical record to be dubious), but I absolutely agree that her candidacy is a huge, gratifying milestone. I actually preferred her in 2008...and I also notice a double standard in a lot of places: racism against Obama was anathema (as it should be), but a lot of sexism against Hillary got a pass. I ground my teeth plenty over that...

[Generic Brad]

361. It's worse when an influential poster implies it

Look how divisive this has become. Had someone less prolific posted the same thing they might not have been banned, but that would be more because of their circle of limited influence.

Someone widely read sets the tone for entire board and has far more influence. In my view, that was a significant factor in what happened.

[akbacchus_BC]

117. Perhaps NYC was angry about something. He should

have been warned. I am going to miss him as he was the first person to help me here when I had an altercation with another DU.

This is so frigging sad!

[akbacchus_BC]

129. Were you instrumental in getting him banned?

Seems as though you are, grave dancing much!

What goes around comes around, unless you are clean as a whistle.

[Cha]

146. Good Grief! Nobody was "instrumental in getting him banned" but himself. And, the Admin who did it

[akbacchus_BC]

182. Oh ok, I cannot argue with the banning, guess it was deserved.

My only problem is that he was a very good DUer and I stand by him and hope he will get reinstated.

Some of us make mistakes when posting, depending on our mood!

[akbacchus_BC]

183. Oh ok, I cannot argue with the banning, guess it was deserved.

My only problem is that he was a very good DUer and I stand by him and hope he will get reinstated.

Some of us make mistakes when posting, depending on our mood!

[stevenleser]

166. Let me guess, in school when you got a bad grade, you would say the teacher gave you that grade...

you didn't earn the bad grade, the teacher gave it to you... amirite?

[akbacchus_BC]

194. No you are wrong. You folks have no idea the rigouros

maths and English tests we go through to qualify to get into high school.

So, just get lost or educate yourself!

Good grief, do not claim you know whom you are responding to!

[NuclearDem]

177. You got me.

EarlG, I'm waiting for my cut from the job.

[akbacchus_BC]

200. So are you saying that you reported NYC, good for you!

Guess you are the pastor on here who never telled a lie. Do carry on! Pastors lie all the time!

[NuclearDem]

203. Oh, I didn't just report it, no sir!

I was actually the banned troll who entrapped him into making that post!

[beam me up scottie]

210. Is that the new meme? A sock puppet tricked him into it?

Wow.

Some people will say anything to excuse misogyny.

[NuclearDem]

212. Skinner and EarlG needed a patsy to take down a Bernie supporter.

I asked to be paid in cookies.

[beam me up scottie]

215. Well done!

Bartender, a round of cookies for everyone involved!

[Cha]

243. Yes, I've heard that excuse.. the banned troll made him do it. That's actually kind of insulting

to him. Like he has no mind of his own.

The banned troll made him put it in his journal too.. I'll bet or it happened by magic!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

230. I oppose the ban

But I ask the administrators in advance to ban me if I use a racist, anti-semitic, sexist. homophobic, et cetera epithet, whether implicitly or explicitly, because I shamed myself.

[LostOne4Ever]

176. K&R (nt)

[still_one]

207. but, but, I just read posts by some who claim women shouldn't be "shrinking violets", therefore not

offended.

This isn't not just about women, it is a mindset among some that really should not be tolerated on DU.

[Bonobo]

304. That was a post from a very strong and vocal woman as a matter of fact.

I think you should not so quickly discount the voice of other women who have different views while claiming to represent the monolithic "right" position and that is the voice of all women.

[seaglass]

309. It's pretty clear that "shrinking violets" are those who meekly accept not the ones who stand up for

themselves and other women.

[MadrasT]

386. +1

And fuck yeah.

[NanceGreggs]

211. This is supposed to be ...

... a "Democratic" site. And yet it has become a place where calling Democrats vile names, and insinuating (in no uncertain terms) that the Democratic president and other elected D's are sell-out shills for Republicans has become not only acceptable, but is often cheered and K & R'd.

It is hard to ignore the irony that on what is, first and foremost, a political message board supporting Democrats and the Party, such posts are allowed to stand, while implying a certain word that many find offensive is too egregious an offense to warrant anything less than total banishment.

SKP and I have had many run-ins over the past few weeks. So it's not like I feel compelled to stand up for him on the grounds that we were good buds, or in agreement with each others' views. In fact, it was quite the opposite.

However, the fact is that he did not use "the word" he is being said to have used. And I personally don't find "well, we all knew what he really meant" to be a good enough reason to do anything more than "hide" a post many took objection to.

As a staunch Democrat posting on a site that is self-described as being supportive of Democrats, I have had my senses assaulted on an almost daily basis by some of the anti-Dem bullshit that is permitted to be posted here as a matter of course.

So you'll excuse me if I don't run to my fainting couch at the notion that someone used a euphemism for a word that is considered a "big no-no" - on a board that holds itself out as being supportive of the very Democrats it allows the most disgusting, outlandish, and vile things to be said about without interference or consequence.

[NuclearDem]

222. No, no, no, no, no.

There is no fucking mystery over what was said.

Unless he was somehow referring to a fucking Metallica video, he used a spoonerism for "stunning c***." Seriously, this isn't an obscure reference either, its definition is on the first Google results page for it.

Seriously, how stupid do some people think we are?

[NanceGreggs]

225. I didn't say there was any mystery.

The fact remains that he didn't actually post "the word" - as is being implied in many posts here tonight.

[bluesbassman]

258. That's the elephant in the room that none of the people grave dancing want to see.

Obviously DU is not a court of law, but if it was the judge would throw this out in a heartbeat.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

235. To paraphrase Sinclair Lewis...

To paraphrase Sinclair Lewis never try to convince somebody of something that their whole world view depends on not believing,

[still_one]

228. It is an expression of hate pure and simple. As you said no different than a racial or ethnic slur,

except this pertains to gender, and sexism.

If one is against someone's policies, then argue on that basis rather then resorting to personal sexist attacks

[JackInGreen]

232. Well I certainly wouldn't do it here

but I'll call my friends what I'd like to when we're inebriated and watching footy, thanks.

[Bonobo]

306. Do you quietly drink from your acorn cup, Jack? nt

[JackInGreen]

307. Less quietly

now adays than I'd like, but the marching morons and their locked steps keep blocking my eyes and disturbing my good peace.

[Bonobo]

308. Yeah, I hear you.

Did you miss the reference? Or did you get it?

[JackInGreen]

310. I got it :)

but when I picked the name I wasn't going off of it, and wasn't super familiar with the song or subsequently, it's importance to me when it was initially pointed out.

[NanceGreggs]

238. If you decide to call a fellow Democrat ...

... a mindless cheerleader, an authoritarian, a DINO, a ConservaDem, a Third Wayer, a water-carrier for the 1% - or if you decide to call a Democratic president a POS used car salesman, a sellout to corporate interests, a shill for the GOP – you have no place here.

This is – or alleges to be – a Democratic-supporting site. And yet all of the above are posted here on a regular basis, and are allowed to stand.

The irony is amusing. It's okay to say the most vile, detestable, outrageous things about Democrats on DemocraticUnderground - just as long as you don't use "certain words", or euphemisms for those words that may offend some sensibilities.

[stevenleser]

261. I would agree with all of that.

But you know that already!

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

315. "Blue Dog" still seems to be acceptable ...

... as long as you're talking about someone other than MY favorite candidate.

"Third Way" is only an insult if the candidate doesn't identify with the third way, I think, but it's maybe a little too technical for my simple mind. Would a "third-wayer" find it insulting? Are there Democratic politicians who self-identify with the third way?

Saying outrageous things about some Democrats seems "normal" during the primary season. 2008 was a bit contentious at times.

[NanceGreggs]

317. Actually ...

... I was referring more to the fact that some posters here call other posters "Third Wayers", DINOs, etc. if they dare disagree with them about anything. And it's been done for ages now - has nothing to do with the season.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

319. Ah, posters attacking other posters, yes but we have ways ...

... of dealing with that (juries and mirt).

We also seem to have increased use of the "alert" system for simple disagreements. I've been on a few juries for "spite" alerts.

But, I am NEVER juror #4, that DUer is just plain wrong.

[NanceGreggs]

320. Well, I'm glad to know ...

... you're not that pesky Juror #4!

But in truth, the jury system is a joke. Just sayin' is all.

[romanic]

239. I'm still kind of a newbie here

but the explosion of threads over this ban is so meta, it's bordering on surreal. I've never seen such open discussion over it on any other forum I've been on, it's weird to watch. :/

[DemocratSinceBirth]

244. On most boards these threads would be moved to the Ask The Administrator board./NT

[JonLP24]

249. I was surprised to read NYC Skip, of all people, was banned over using that term

Just read a headline this morning but haven't hung around for the debates but whether or not and its not for me to decide -- I know what would happen if I used that word but it isn't something I ever have to worry about as generally I stay away from ad hominem or remind myself when I catch myself doing so but I have rarely ever heard that word personally and something very vicious behind it as "bitch" can be gender neutral or get away with it depending on context and every use depends on the context but the word is exclusively derogatory for someone who is a woman (maybe except the use of the word with British accents but don't know the truth behind the rumor).

That said, being banned I could deal with it but people debating my existence, I would like to hear from NYC Skip. If one truly understands the offensive use, realize the error -- I can accept that or if one stands their ground or give a phony apology (you can't really tell, especially through here, unless there is a pattern or they put the responsibility on someone else or blame someone else unless a clear provoking but a C-word -- I can't see that but not my place to decide here or there. I will say there is a poster here (that I like) that have insulted more people here ever but in just a monthy average, suspended more than once, had an always open transparency page (don't know if it is but enjoyed a laugh). Remember the douchebag thread?

[grahamhgreen]

251. It's commonly used in Oz, often endearingly:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/bradesposito/outrageous-words-that-are-said-every-day-in-australia

[stevenleser]

257. Kick nt

[melman]

271. I would have thought a person that blames murder victims for being murdered had no place here

but only a handful of people seemed to mind when he did that.

[treestar]

272. Agreed

Including clever sideways ways of doing it.

[dembotoz]

281. I am profane always has been always will be...and if I offend to much?

Geuss like life my stay here could be limited

Does peeve me a bit how we eat our own when the really bad guys run my state to ruin

So while I am here
Koobay yah and all that

And when I am gone, may no one ever confuse me with a teabagger

[NuclearDem]

285. Remember, if we stop using c***, Republicans win!

Brilliant!

[dembotoz]

342. and once upon a time we focused on the bad guys...now this bullshit

[NuclearDem]

343. Times were better when everyone just shut up and fell in line.

[dembotoz]

346. this is just not me

[Smarmie Doofus]

286. Can I decide to call someone a "prick" or a "dick"?

Yes or no.

[NuclearDem]

290. Why, yes, you can!

Because reverse sexism is about as fucking real as reverse racism.

[pscot]

357. Nice

What a handy rationale.

[Orsino]

287. Context is all.

Hot-button words like that one should be used with care, but it rather depends on who's using it, about whom, and to whom. In some places, I'm given to understand, the c-word is a general rather than a sexist insult. I have my doubts about that assertion, but we should probably judge cases individually.

[notadmblnd]

289. So you were the alerter on that?

[NuclearDem]

293. Curses! Another one has discovered my plans!

[notadmblnd]

296. Just wondering if you are as ardent in your objections in the real world as you are here?

Night before last, Jon Stewart used the word "pussy" on The Daily Show. Did you make sure to email him a lecture on what is appropriate language and what is not? Or does it just bother you when you see a similar word in print here?

[NuclearDem]

298. Oh for flying fuck's sake.

[Vinca]

292. Could you provide a brief synopsis for late comers?

After reading all the threads re this subject I can't ascertain whether the "c" word was or was not said or if the word "cunning" was used, which definitely is not the "c" word. Cunning means sly and is not a slur for a body part so I'm left wondering why someone was ousted for using it.

[NuclearDem]

294. Here's the actual post.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6775973


"Cunning stunt" is a spoonerism for "stunning c***".

[Vinca]

297. Thanks. I hadn't heard that one. The post is missing, but I think I get it now.

[NCTraveler]

295. And that is the way it should be. nt.

[mcar]

312. Agreed

Sad to see the rationalizing going on here.

[Art_from_Ark]

316. So by the same token,

calling someone a "dick" has no place here as well. Right?

And making fun of men who are not well endowed, including mocking such people in a sig line, has no place here as well.

Agreed?

[nadinbrzezinski]

356. Fat shaming should have no place either

and that is the top of the list.

[DustyJoe]

321. oh man

Last edited Fri Jun 5, 2015, 11:06 AM - Edit history (1)

We gotta stop referring to bush as a dick now ??????


*edited to add obviously missing sarc tag for any swinging richard that took the post seriously.

[NuclearDem]

322. Yeah, "dick" and "c***" are nowhere near the same.

And it's been explained why for the quadrillionuple umpteenth time in several of the discussions about this.

[Jester Messiah]

328. Bad news for visiting Aussies and Brits I suppose. [nt]

[NuclearDem]

332. Oh well.

Brits use f** to refer to cigarettes too. Is that alright here?

[Jester Messiah]

341. It'd just be nice if we were less uptight about this shit.

At least the brits know how to relax and get on with things. We're so overwrought and outraged all the time in this country.

[Hiraeth]

329. No. Precisely speaking, if one implies that one is a c*** then one obviously, has no place here.

This is clearly what happened. A person was banned for the implication. No one called any one a c***. Just like, last week, no one called Bernie a racist. However no one was banned for the implication that Bernie is a racist and this is where I take issue with what has transpired on this site in the past week.

One may have implied that one is a c*** and, others of us may have inferred it from the reading of the post and, still others inferred it after looking up the phrase "c*nn*g st*nt" on Urban Dictionary.

Is all very interesting how people do not understand the ramifications of implications and how unevenly the Admin are meting out justice on this site.

However, it is their site and they may do as they wish. Kind of like living in a "right to work" state, I suppose.

[samsingh]

335. give me a break. have you heard about emotions running high. how about forgiveness?

[NuclearDem]

338. If you call someone a c***, you have no place here.

That word has been discussed to death here. People here know what it is and what it means.

I've got utterly ballistic at people here, and yet somehow managed to avoid calling them a c***, f**, or n*****.

[samsingh]

339. i'm so happy we can make far reaching rules for someone who's been

posting a good part of his life here and contributing financially.

[MisterP]

349. he didn't

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6784393

but some geese are more equal than other ganders
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5961759

[NuclearDem]

365. Okay, you linked to a post of mine where I call someone out for a derogatory slur.

[UglyGreed]

352. Let me ask what kind of

name calling is acceptable? Also if a person may have a different view on a subject does that give others the right to attack that person on personal level? Just wondering.

[TNNurse]

359. I still work part time

And therefore do not have the time to read all these comments and go to the links provided and read them.

I am a white woman. I do not use the n-word. I acknowledge that Black people may use it and that is their choice. I cannot (and do not want to) say it and have that be acceptable.

The c-word referred to in all this discussion is a hateful slur. I have never heard or heard of a woman calling another woman that word and anyone thinking that is OK, because they are both women. Maybe it happens, but it is certainly not common.

That word is commonly considered to be intolerable, unacceptable and foul. You can certainly insult a woman quite well without using that word.

[rateyes]

360. If that is the case then the powers that be

Should go back and do a site search and ban every member who used the word. Do a site search for the word. You will be surprised at the number of members who used it and never got punished for it. Comsistency is definitely a jewel. SKP shouldnt have used the spoonerism, but should not have received a harsher punishment than all the othera who used the actual word. It does make one wonder whether the ban came because it was tied to HRC.

[kcr]

362. Agreed

Sadly not surprised someone who got banned for it is getting support.

[Comrade Grumpy]

380. Wrong. Only NYC Skip has been banned for "cunning stunt." Many others have not.

Or even had their posts hidden.

[Cha]

391. SKP was directing it at Hillary Clinton and adding.. "I say that to myself every day, over an over

It can be a tongue twister!" Not freaking 1/2 as "clever" as he thought.. And, put it in his Journal just to make sure no one missed it.

"Troll"

Feel the Bern.

If she's not ready to handle spontaneous exchanges,

she is not fit for the Presidency. This is all smoke and mirrors, IMO. Yes, I am voting for Bernie but just thinking of her even pulling such a cunning stunt is pretty shockingly appalling.

I'm not sayin'--I'm just sayin'...

"There will be NO opportunities to interview Hillary Clinton; her speech will be her interview."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6775879
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6783979

How SKP responded..

"Welcome to DU, Feel the Bern! And yes, it's a Cunning Stunt!

I say that to myself every day, over an over.

It can be a tongue twister!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6775973

Posted it in his journal too..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/~NYC_SKP

EarlG (Administrator)

"Called Hillary Clinton the c-word. Thought he was being clever about it. He was not."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=221412&sub=trans

SKP needs to apologize to the Admins and ask to be re-instated.. not try to wiggle out of it like others are trying to do for him.

Yeah, others are saying it.. and choosing to campaign for Bernie through misogyny..

[mylye2222]

402. What I understand in that ban

is that DUers should better stop criticize the Party Already- Designated Candidate.

Btw not so long ago I was personnaly attacked . The poster got his post hidden by Jury but not banned

[MoonRiver]

405. Calling a woman the "c" word is a lot more than criticism.

Would you be ok with someone here calling you that? Or how about if someone called Bernie Sanders' wife or Elizabeth Warren the "c" word. Are you good with that happening?

[Omaha Steve]

413. I thought he said...

Trendy Man: Mr. Melon, your wife was just showing us her Klimt. Thornton: You too, huh?