Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 02:21 PM Jun 2015

I gotta make a point about language and issues

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by one_voice (a host of the General Discussion forum).

Sabrina has made the point, and I have observed the same. You cannot really have a discussion here about ISSUES. You really cannot deal in this place with real policy issues. That is a fact.

People spend a LLLLOOOOTTT of time on things like shitty novels, and the use of a WORD.

Some of us would like to talk policy in the depth some do here over a so called novel.

Over the last few years I have spent my time with people who are actually affected by things like pay, unequal pay, getting enough hours at work, what WELFARE REFORM has done to them, childcare, or more precisely lack of it. There are other issues that matter to these folks, including rape in the workplace, not just in the armed forces. Trust me, a word is not at the top of the list. Not even near the middle to be exact. It is the kind of things parents tell children you do not use.

Posts on policy sink like a rock. Why? There is no obvious interest in those things.

We have two main tribes regarding issues that affect working people, including minorities and women. One is concerned mostly about language (which matters, but not as much as you think), and the other group that deals with issues, including the ERA.

Not that it matters to me. I really don't give a shit about the reputation this place has as far as policy discussion in other places of the web. It is not my concern. Suffice it to say, when it comes to issue centered discussions, it is not that good. In fact, it is pretty bad.

And yes, we have to watch what we say and what we do... becuase of a small, but very loud clique.

And I must say today we saw far more evidence of that war between two major tribes and several sub groups. It makes taking this place seriously even less likely.



I expect this to be locked, par for the course. It is what it is... it is DU and very predictable as well.

I am honored to know labor leaders, strong women, who do fight the fight and walk the walk. They are the real people doing the real fight. I am honored to know leaders in education who also talk the talk and walk the walk. Those are real flesh and blood folks.

I am honored to know mothers, taking on the judicial system, to save their kids from mass incarceration. They walk the walk and talk the talk.

And I concluded this place is NOT a place to talk budgets, which are economic and political documents. It is also not the place to talk infrastructure... or for that matter issues of war and peace.

Now I return myself to the elections in Mexico... where we already have had one municipality anul the elections, and we are not even at midday to the end of the election. Not that I expect many here to care, and those who do, like me, find alternate sources. DU is not, hardly anymore, a good source for foreign news. That is by design. It is not a bug, as I tell myself often, but a feature.

As to those who were insulted by the PSA regarding the movie Spy, I mean it, if you get easily offended by language do NOT watch it. It has plenty of it. It is a good comedy, but.

Have an excellent day.


41 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
I gotta make a point about language and issues (Original Post) nadinbrzezinski Jun 2015 OP
I agree. H2O Man Jun 2015 #1
Reminds me of this... kentuck Jun 2015 #2
Very good! H2O Man Jun 2015 #3
I am often average. qwlauren35 Jun 2015 #39
Totally agree. jwirr Jun 2015 #4
Yup. NRaleighLiberal Jun 2015 #5
Thank you for spending so much time here at DU zappaman Jun 2015 #6
Lovely personal attack nadinbrzezinski Jun 2015 #9
No, it's just an observation. zappaman Jun 2015 #12
That was nasty. n/t demmiblue Jun 2015 #31
Whoops. Evidence purge. nt Codeine Jun 2015 #33
That's a nasty post especially for someone always condemning bullying. tammywammy Jun 2015 #36
It's been blocked. qwlauren35 Jun 2015 #40
Frank had this to say... bluesbassman Jun 2015 #16
mmm hmm PeaceNikki Jun 2015 #19
K&R! marym625 Jun 2015 #7
"some of us" treestar Jun 2015 #8
Your recent hidden post was about language pintobean Jun 2015 #10
For someone who doesn't like to spend a lot of time discussing language and certain words gollygee Jun 2015 #11
Anul? BeyondGeography Jun 2015 #13
Rather curios. pintobean Jun 2015 #15
+1000 hobbit709 Jun 2015 #14
Well, there's the door. NuclearDem Jun 2015 #17
I agree. I tried have a policy debate the other day and was Exilednight Jun 2015 #18
I challenge your notion that there are two "tribes" here as you described. Gormy Cuss Jun 2015 #20
You are correct nadinbrzezinski Jun 2015 #24
Yes. Thanks. F4lconF16 Jun 2015 #34
I sometimes forget how much smarter and better you are than the rest of us, Codeine Jun 2015 #21
I am sorry you feel you need to take it that way nadinbrzezinski Jun 2015 #27
And miss all that wisdom?! Codeine Jun 2015 #30
lol PeaceNikki Jun 2015 #29
Sure you can. There will be attempts to derail the conversation, but they don't have to succeed. Buzz Clik Jun 2015 #22
hmmm mercuryblues Jun 2015 #23
Don't. nadinbrzezinski Jun 2015 #25
Don't what? mercuryblues Jun 2015 #35
But whining about image and perception ARE policy issues! DRoseDARs Jun 2015 #26
I'm sorry you waste your time on such a "crappy" place to be demtenjeep Jun 2015 #28
Absolutely Zamen Jun 2015 #32
You are correct, Nadin. Blue_In_AK Jun 2015 #37
If it's not controversial qwlauren35 Jun 2015 #38
Locking... one_voice Jun 2015 #41

H2O Man

(79,097 posts)
1. I agree.
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 02:21 PM
Jun 2015

Recommended.

kentuck

(115,441 posts)
2. Reminds me of this...
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 02:24 PM
Jun 2015

H2O Man

(79,097 posts)
3. Very good!
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 02:25 PM
Jun 2015

qwlauren35

(6,309 posts)
39. I am often average.
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 03:25 PM
Jun 2015

But, what is not part of this is the DOers. I remember meeting a man who did not like to think much. But you could count on him to do things. This can have good and bad consequences. You want him to at least think enough not to follow blindly, but we need doers in the world.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
4. Totally agree.
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 02:25 PM
Jun 2015

NRaleighLiberal

(61,868 posts)
5. Yup.
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 02:30 PM
Jun 2015

zappaman

(20,627 posts)
6. Thank you for spending so much time here at DU
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 02:31 PM
Jun 2015

Telling us how much it sucks.

Very helpful and informative!


 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
9. Lovely personal attack
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 02:34 PM
Jun 2015

zappaman

(20,627 posts)
12. No, it's just an observation.
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 02:39 PM
Jun 2015

If you want to see what a personal attack is...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026792887#post48

demmiblue

(39,772 posts)
31. That was nasty. n/t
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 03:14 PM
Jun 2015
 

Codeine

(25,586 posts)
33. Whoops. Evidence purge. nt
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 03:16 PM
Jun 2015

tammywammy

(26,582 posts)
36. That's a nasty post especially for someone always condemning bullying.
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 03:20 PM
Jun 2015

qwlauren35

(6,309 posts)
40. It's been blocked.
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 03:27 PM
Jun 2015

Can you synopsize?

bluesbassman

(20,384 posts)
16. Frank had this to say...
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 02:44 PM
Jun 2015

"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible".

Pretyy wise Frank was. Think I'll use that as my new sig line. 😊

PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
19. mmm hmm
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 02:47 PM
Jun 2015

marym625

(17,997 posts)
7. K&R!
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 02:31 PM
Jun 2015

And I am guilty of spending way too much time on a word. I fully admit it. . With apologies

treestar

(82,383 posts)
8. "some of us"
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 02:32 PM
Jun 2015

could discuss them and they would not sink.

Two posters could keep a thread alive.

 

pintobean

(18,101 posts)
10. Your recent hidden post was about language
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 02:37 PM
Jun 2015

being used to avoid using a specific word to insult someone.

48. I am concerned of policies that actually gasp

affect women. This is not a conversation that can be had here because of folks like you.

But you were the other person I was thinking off as that word left the mouth of one of the characters.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026792887#post48

"That word" is what your now deleted OP was about. You were talking about a movie scene where the characters kept using the c-word.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
11. For someone who doesn't like to spend a lot of time discussing language and certain words
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 02:39 PM
Jun 2015

you are spending a lot of time discussing them.

BeyondGeography

(41,142 posts)
13. Anul?
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 02:39 PM
Jun 2015

Maybe fix that.

 

pintobean

(18,101 posts)
15. Rather curios.
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 02:41 PM
Jun 2015

hobbit709

(41,694 posts)
14. +1000
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 02:40 PM
Jun 2015
 

NuclearDem

(16,184 posts)
17. Well, there's the door.
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 02:44 PM
Jun 2015

Exilednight

(9,359 posts)
18. I agree. I tried have a policy debate the other day and was
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 02:46 PM
Jun 2015

Accused of being a troll. I attempted another one today and when I asked a question, I was accused of trying to "derail" the conversation.

Every once in a while I can have a thoughtful discussion, but they're few and far between.

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
20. I challenge your notion that there are two "tribes" here as you described.
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 02:52 PM
Jun 2015

Those of us concerned with language are also concerned with issues. Those who dismiss language as irrelevant are at some point going to meet the harsh reality that language does impede progress on issues. If you're old enough to remember the failed ERA effort in this country, language was most assuredly one of the weapons used to defeat it.

IMHO trying to divorce the two is a misguided as trying to divorce social and economic justice.



 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
24. You are correct
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 03:05 PM
Jun 2015

Those are the two major camps obvious at the moment. There are more.

F4lconF16

(3,747 posts)
34. Yes. Thanks.
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 03:19 PM
Jun 2015

Language is critical. It's our medium of communication, and immensely powerful. A word can destroy people, or keep them from committing suicide. Being concerned about the way we use language is yet another facet of the way we observe and critique our society.

Speaking from personal experience, and the looks on friends faces when they hear and/or are called certain words, they matter in a lot of ways just as much as any policy.

 

Codeine

(25,586 posts)
21. I sometimes forget how much smarter and better you are than the rest of us,
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 02:54 PM
Jun 2015

but you're always eager to remind me.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
27. I am sorry you feel you need to take it that way
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 03:08 PM
Jun 2015

Let me help you there is this thing called Ignore. I suggest you use it.

 

Codeine

(25,586 posts)
30. And miss all that wisdom?!
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 03:13 PM
Jun 2015

I'd be lost without you telling me about the scourge of wind power and meters-high snow in Mexico City.

PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
29. lol
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 03:12 PM
Jun 2015
 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
22. Sure you can. There will be attempts to derail the conversation, but they don't have to succeed.
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 03:00 PM
Jun 2015

mercuryblues

(16,446 posts)
23. hmmm
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 03:03 PM
Jun 2015

I like to consider how the usage of certain words and not just the one you mention, affect policy decisions. I mean if women are nothing but *'s they deserve to have laws pushed to regulate their bodies. How about AfAm's How do slurs and stereotyping impact their lives?

IOW when people chose to demean and diminish others with racist and sexist slurs it has a direct negative impact on how the race or gender is perceived.

So again, I will not lower my standards of language as part of my effort to achieve the goals you say you care about. A high tide may raise all boats but when you hurl rocks in some, it takes longer to reach the same height.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
25. Don't.
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 03:07 PM
Jun 2015

My use of a word is limited here to frack. Which is due to my admiration of an extremely well written series. Just pointing out that to people in the very real world it is not an issue at the top of their priorities. Hell not even at the middle

mercuryblues

(16,446 posts)
35. Don't what?
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 03:19 PM
Jun 2015
 

DRoseDARs

(6,810 posts)
26. But whining about image and perception ARE policy issues!
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 03:07 PM
Jun 2015

Because they are so much more important! Substance is boring!



I kid. It's not as bad as you imply, I see substantive debates all the time, but we've certainly begun Silly Season. NYC_SKP's egregious banning was pretty much the opening volley of primary season on DU. It's all downhill from here until election day. Same as it ever was, same as it ever was.

 

demtenjeep

(31,997 posts)
28. I'm sorry you waste your time on such a "crappy" place to be
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 03:10 PM
Jun 2015

maybe you will find a better fit somewhere else



I actually get a lot of information here and enjoy it very much

 

Zamen

(116 posts)
32. Absolutely
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 03:15 PM
Jun 2015

Blue_In_AK

(46,436 posts)
37. You are correct, Nadin.
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 03:23 PM
Jun 2015

Certain threads I avoid like the plague for the reasons you stated. That's not to say that there aren't still good discussions going on here; one just needs to pick and choose with whom to engage.

qwlauren35

(6,309 posts)
38. If it's not controversial
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 03:23 PM
Jun 2015

It sinks. That's a reality here.

If you want to discuss policy try taking a controversial stand on it, or outlining a controversial aspect of it.

Or try a poll. Everyone loves polls. If you design it right, you can get depth. Really. For example, if you had limited funds and the option to only do a few things with them, suggest the possibilities and see what people think.

Policy is simply not sexy, and sexy sells. It is the reality of America and DU is not immune.

One other thing to know. There are always people who read without writing. So your post is probably reaching people and getting some thought from them, even if they don't respond.

As for foreign news, that was never the intent of DU. DU was founded by a group of people in the US who were disheartened when W. Bush won his first election. It is a distinctly US board, with some readership from other countries. To want an non-US content, well, it would be better to start a "group".

Policy overwhelms me. I usually need it watered down. However, I sign petitions when I have enough information to make an informed decision. I think you can get that from people. And again, maybe 1% will thoroughly read you say. And of that 1%, some will take action. If you keep your expectations low, they will be rewarded.

With respect,

Lauren

one_voice

(20,043 posts)
41. Locking...
Sun Jun 7, 2015, 03:27 PM
Jun 2015
Statement of Purpose

Discuss politics, issues, and current events. Posts about Israel/Palestine, religion, guns, showbiz, or sports are restricted in this forum. Conspiracy theories and disruptive meta-discussion are forbidden. For more information, click here.


Latest Discussions»General Discussion»I gotta make a point abou...