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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCrazy can’t be reasoned with. Only defeated
http://www.suntimes.com/news/otherviews/12471883-452/todays-gop-you-cant-reason-with-crazy.htmlTodays GOP: You cant reason with crazy
By Gene Lyons May 11, 2012 10:54PM
After the comprehensive failures of President George W. Bush, conservatives faced a hard choice: rethink or go crazy. For too many, the election of Barack Obama appears to have made it a no-brainer. Millions have chosen the comforts of delusion, envisioning the ordinary give-and-take of politics in a democracy as an apocalyptic struggle between good and evil.
In a presidential election year, the evidence is everywhere. Two weeks ago, Florida GOP Rep. Allen West told a gathering of constituents that he knew of 78 to 81 congressional Democrats who are members of the Communist Party. Almost needless to say, West failed to name even one. Hardly anybody noticed, and certainly not the severely conservative presumptive Republican nominee, Mitt Romney. snip
Longtime GOP congressional aide Mike Lofgren wrote last year in explaining his resignation, the Republican Party is becoming less and less like a traditional political party in a representative democracy and becoming more like an apocalyptic cult, or one of the intensely ideological authoritarian parties of 20th century Europe.
For Obama to succeed where Bush had failed also had the potential to reduce the GOP to a powerless bloc of neo-Confederate whiners for a generation. So Obama had to fail at all costs.
Crazy cant be reasoned with. Only defeated.
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)Sweet and to the point.
longship
(40,416 posts)They undoubtedly see Dems, and especially Obama, as the crazy.
malthaussen
(17,175 posts)This is something that drives me, well crazy: when some wing-nut makes an absurd statement, rather than say "that's an absurd statement," men and women of good will and proudly-open minds will dignify the absurdity by replying to it. It is much the same as the Goebbels Big Lie theory: the more often the crazy statement is repeated (the Internet is great for this), the more often it is dignified, then the more legitimacy it gains. As a side benefit, this tactic can be used to detract from serious questions and serious issues.
A good example, randomly chosen from many: "Social Security is an entitlement."
-- Mal
OneTenthofOnePercent
(6,268 posts)I'm not sure that's the best example.
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)And the most successful government program ever in these here United States for keeping people from spending their post-retirement lives fighting stray dogs for gutter scraps. Social Security is a shining example of what our country can be, and the way our citizens can live happy, secure lives all the way to the end. Which is why it would be crazy to destroy it, either outright or through "privatization" or some other pernicious scheme.
OneTenthofOnePercent
(6,268 posts)It is, by the very definition of the word, an entitlement. Entitlements are good. Mischaractarizing other hand-outs as entitlements in order to defame the word 'entitlement' is the problem.
malthaussen
(17,175 posts)An "entitlement" is an unearned benefit deriving from the taxes paid by others.
Social Security is insurance paid for by the worker, and not deriving from taxes.
-- Mal
OneTenthofOnePercent
(6,268 posts)Really, it's very simple. Pull out a dictionary or webpage and make a fool of them publically using irrefutable facts. It's no different than someone saying 2+2=5... they are factually wrong. I don't see why people will concede the definition of a word and let the frame the debate.
malthaussen
(17,175 posts)Conservative-speak defines "entitlement" in a given way, and condemns a program by labelling it an "entitlement." No amount of "calling them out" or "making a fool of them" is going to cause a change. Instead, we find the Left echoing the Right's definition of the word, and thus allowing the Right to frame the debate.
"Irrefutable facts" are irrelevant when dealing with the Crazy. In fact, there is no such animal.
When one bases his opinions on faith, he cannot be refuted with reason.
-- Mal
TahitiNut
(71,611 posts)Without question, any 'right' or 'interest' or 'ownership' or 'privilege' that is solely a creature of government fiat, law, and the state enforcement thereof is an entitlement.
More interesting to me is the degree to which right-wingers (whigs) are invested in virtually every entitlement ever invented by man, including title to intangible property (e.g. stock, bonds, derivatives), title to tangible property (e.g. two Cadillacs), title to real property, titles of inheritance, and authoritarian/autocratic titles such as CEO, Prince, Duke (Cunningham?), King (Saud?), or even Fellow. Absolutely none of these exist in Nature and few exist in equity. The notion that we can leave 'our' Real Estate unattended and even unvisited and rely upon police state powers to ensure that our entitlement to the use or disposition of that real estate at all times in the future is so ordinary that we fail to recall Pennsylvania as an entitlement conferred upon William Penn by the King of England (who never himself acquired those lands under their then-existing laws or conventions) to all lands between two latitudes and extending west to a then-unlimited extent. Indeed, even the parceling out of the western hemisphere to the titled heads of England, France, and Spain by the Pope was an entitlement.
The entitlement of the aristocracy to rape any bride in their domain on her wedding night is another example.
What I believe 'offends' the reich-wing is not an entitlement per se, but that the hoi polloi has any entitlement. God forbid that the government create and enforce any right or privilege to which a poor person can benefit!!
What a fuckling morally bankrupt thing to be: Republican.
ewagner
(18,964 posts)Both Lakoff and Chris Mooney have cited study after study that find fault with liberals for grasping desperately to "the truth shall make you free" theory of dealing with Conservatives.
The studies indicate truth won't change the conservative mind...so politely stating truths, studies, facts
etc to conservatives doesn't do any good.
btw: I appreciate your screen name...wonder how many "get it"?
Stainless
(718 posts)No disrespect but what is to "get" from the screen name? I thought that it was either a family surname or a mispelling of the infamous Mathausen Concentration Camp from WWII Nazi Germany. Please clarify.
For the record, I agree with the POV in the original post.
malthaussen
(17,175 posts)Last edited Sun May 13, 2012, 11:59 AM - Edit history (1)
... which nobody spells correctly, anyway.
It's a reference to Thomas Malthus, the economic philosopher. Arguably, though, Malthus's family is responsible for the misspelling, since a Malthaus is a brewery (hence my icon).
Very few people have actually heard of the KZ, so I wouldn't call it "infamous." Not that it shouldn't be infamous, but it has such stiff competition...
-- Mal
TahitiNut
(71,611 posts)... I thought primarily of "Malt Haus" due to learning some German in school and only secondarily of Malthus. Familiar myself with the concentration camp, it never occurred to me it was related.
Prosit!
malthaussen
(17,175 posts)In fact, anyone who ever *heard* of Veblen gets a handshake from me.
-- Mal
TahitiNut
(71,611 posts)And quite a wit, too. In fact, one might call him (endearingly) a "nut."
Altogether too much of our current political/economic problems could be far better understood if folks merely studied Veblen's work. He was a seer. It's my opinion that our businesses are failing our society/nation due to the abundance of those in it for the money and paucity of those in it for the product or service. GM is the most prominent example. The engineers lost to the green eye shades.
malthaussen
(17,175 posts)Meyer the economist in the Travis McGee series started out with a houseboat named the "John Maynard Keynes." When over the course of the series that boat sank, he named the replacement the "Thorstein Veblen." I learned a lot of economics from ol' Meyer.
-- Mal
OneTenthofOnePercent
(6,268 posts)BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)It drives me nuts that the media treats their crap as if it merited any recognition whatsoever. They should be laughed at and kicked off the air! Yeesh, glad I don't actually WATCH any of that crap, I'd have pulled out all of my beautiful silver hair and eaten it out of sheer desperate, frustrated rage!!!!!!!
and, btw...I LOVE your sig pic!! Where did you find that??
malthaussen
(17,175 posts)Even before the Internet, back in the days of dial-up BBSs. One poster claimed to be a doctor; another poster claimed the first was lying. The original poster offered factual evidence, his opponent kept repeating that the other was lying. Within a matter of a few days, other people were saying "there are serious questions about whether or not X is lying about being a doctor..." There were no such "serious questions," just the opinion of one belligerant.
Of course this problem has always been with us, but the Internet has compounded it immeasurably. And the theory that the Press should give "fair hearing" to all viewpoints has compounded the compounding.
-- Mal
OneTenthofOnePercent
(6,268 posts)The pic in my sig is just a picture of that poster.
Obama punching a zombie... epic.
TahitiNut
(71,611 posts)After all, anyone who abandons their Faith in the face of something as trivial as facts and/or (God forbid) science isn't a True Believer. O ye of little faith!!
malthaussen
(17,175 posts)... so insisting on facts doesn't necessarily disqualify one as a believer.
-- Mal
freshwest
(53,661 posts)NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)patrice
(47,992 posts)jp11
(2,104 posts)felix_numinous
(5,198 posts)without going crazy yourself. It's best to back up so that you can look at the situation from a place of empowerment. Truly--and how many times have I had to re-learn this? Whew--countless!! ........
tama
(9,137 posts)we mean also civilization that is suicidally worshipping money and destroying the carrying capacity of it's environment, and being brought up into this civilization we are also crazy to some degree, how do we reason with ourselves?
daligirl519
(285 posts)it was a waste of time to argue with stupid or crazy.