Pope Francis Calls Right-Wing Christian Fundamentalism a Sickness

[damnedifIknow]

"Pope Francis has been very clear about how he feels about ideological purity in religion. He's been particularly critical of right-wing Christian fundamentalism. Pope Francis has shifted the focus of the Catholic Church to issues facing the poor and the sick. He has railed against economic inequality and has criticized the anti-gay and anti-abortion strains that have come to dominate the Christian Right here in America. Such ideological extremism is dangerous, not only to Christianity, but to the world. And Pope Francis said as much last Thursday.
Pope Francis called right-wing Christian fundamentalism a sickness. "

Clearly, Pope Francis isn't fond of the extreme ideals of the Christian Right. He supports helping the poor. He believes in economic fairness. He denounces hatred of gay people. He thinks the war against abortion and birth control has gone too far. Considering all of these things, it's pretty obvious that Pope Francis was mostly talking to right-wing Christians on Thursday. Their ideological fanaticism has damaged religion. They have abandoned the true teachings of Jesus to pursue an extremist agenda. And Pope Francis just called them out for it. Cue right-wing rage in 3, 2, 1"

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Pope-Francis-Calls-Right-W-by-James-Quandy-America_America_Anti-gay_CHRISTIANS-CANNOT-BE-CONSERVATIVES-150606-114.html

[randys1]

1. I heard that if you are a rightwing piece of shit catholic like that ass that is on all

the talk shows, you can agree with the Pope on abortion but you can say he is wrong when he wants to help the poor

FUCKING AMAZING

[damnedifIknow]

4. Amen

"Such ideological extremism is dangerous, not only to Christianity, but to the world."

[CharlotteVale]

2. For real? There is no daylight between the Catholic Church's and Christian

Right's positions on gay rights or abortion. So this is just bizarre to me.

[Hekate]

8. Allow me to introduce you to Pope Francis, definitely not the same as the others.

A bureaucracy 2,000 years in the making doesn't change all at once, but he is working to change as many bits as possible as fast as possible. God willing, may he have a long reign.

Also, and this is something many Americans don't seem to recognize, the American Protestant religious right prides itself on its deep deep ignorance and anti-intellectualism. What they don't know about the Bible and its history would fill a library -- they just kind of make stuff up as they go along, imho. This is very unlike Roman Catholicism, whatever other faults it may have (and they are many).

[CharlotteVale]

13. I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school for 12 years.

I don't need to be "introduced" to anything, thank you.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

20. Please allow me to introduce myself . . .

I've been beaten by nuns, had my left hand slapped with metal rulers (devil's hand) and been told I would spend an eternity in hell. I KNOW how bad they have been. Frank is a breath of fresh air, and quite different than his hideous officeholders.

[DesertFlower]

49. i also was beaten by nuns.

one time i was thrown across the wooden floor -- scraped my knee.

remember the phrase "i'm going to make your knuckles simmer".

[gopiscrap]

125. I have been there also

however I am more hopeful about this pope than anyother since John XXIII

[apnu]

202. The nuns at my school were far more creative.

I was made to kneel in a hallway (marble floor) next to a water fountain on a hot September day, no air conditioning. They had 3 classes take a drink in front of me. Then I was sat in the head penguin's office for an hour long lecture on the evils of Dungeons and Dragons.

[Liberalynn]

85. Been there myself

[ChairmanAgnostic]

86. I should thank them

It made me question everything, and I learned, on my own, to be an atheist.

[AtheistCrusader]

97. Can you give one concrete example of policy difference on abortion or SSM?

Francis is not different from his predecessors

[ChairmanAgnostic]

103. I only deal in cement, not concrete.

If you are so obtuse that you cannot see the obvious differences, no amount of posting will ever change your mind. Somehow, that reminds me of another political subgroup, but mostly on the other side.

[AtheistCrusader]

106. I see you cannot provide the requested cite. I accept your surrender.

Francis has actually openly said things about same sex marriage that are, if you can believe it, MORE horrible than his predecessors.

You come on back when you have a leg to stand on though. I'm all ears.

[lark]

144. Probably not effective, but here's a couple of MAJOR differences.

He doesn't tolerate child molesters, the last guy did
He's pro environment, Teabaggers aren't and the last guy wasn't
He's pro helping the poor - Teabaggers aren't and the last guy wasn't

These are all big changes for the church. Yes, they are still Catholic, so wrong on many things. Glad to see that under him the church is actually striving to do some good, instead of all bad.

[NYC Liberal]

152. The last guy wrote an entire book criticizing capitalism and regularly

spoke about poverty and income inequality.

He was also a huge environmentalist as well.

There is very, very little difference between these two popes.

[lark]

156. Last pope protected child molesters

this one fires those who tolerated that. Seems like a significant difference. Also, I never read in the papers any environmentalist or pro poor positions by him. At least this one makes this a significant focus instead of keeping his views confined to books.

[treestar]

110. No. But he is different on other issues.

And here he's saying the fundies go too far.

[AtheistCrusader]

112. He makes some nice noises about poverty and income inequality.

I will certainly grant that.

It sounds a little hollow, coming from the titular head of the single wealthiest private organization on the planet though.

[calimary]

37. I appreciate where you're coming from, CharlotteVale. That sounds like where I'm coming from, too!

But it was 14 years for me, if you add pre-kinder and kindergarten. All-girls school. Total nun-run, as well. That's a rarity now even in all-girl Catholic schools just because there are so few nuns in the picture anymore. By the time our daughter got to that point, all the teachers and staff were of the laity.

I actually do see differences in this pope as compared to the last one(s). I am still waiting for SOME pope someday to join the real world and fully accept gays, FULLY accept women and women's rights, and women in the priesthood rather than the "ladies' auxiliary" off to the side. In those areas, you're absolutely correct - the Church is still HORRIBLY backwards. STILL in the Bronze Age.

HOWEVER, I do like some of what he's said and done. He's point-blank denounced "trickle-down," by name, and called it what it is. That's a HUGE step. If he's coming out with an encyclical about recognizing the urgency of climate change and acknowledging science, then that is also a HUGE step forward and away from the antiquated crap of the Vatican in all regimes past. I like what he's done regarding the poor. Heck, the last guy paraded around in expensive red Prada slippers all the time. WTF??? Excuse me??? Designer duds - for the POPE???? The Pope's supposed to be the vicar of Christ on earth, and the last thing ANY pope should be doing is prancing around in designer duds. I imagine if the story of Jesus and the rich young man is to be believed, Our Lord would not be too pleased that one of his major representatives on earth wears Prada. I've never seen a pope before this - who was so blatant about sticking it to the rich in his formal pronouncements, especially the GOP/reagan-worshipping/corporation-idolizing/money-grubbing jerks who remain on their knees praying at the trickle-down altar.

Pope Francis isn't perfect either, but he's a big improvement over Benny the Rat and the uber-reactionary JP2.

[Enthusiast]

73. I am totally with you on that, calimary.

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[tiptonic]

95. So true Charlotte

Same here with the catholic schools. These religious nuts, make me want to heave with their big churches, private planes, big cars and big mouths.

[treestar]

109. That doesn't mean you know about this Pope

He is economically fairly liberal.

[JonLP24]

187. I went The Door growing up

It is a fundamentalist Pentacoastal church they're pretty extreme by going far to say hanging out with "blacksliders" "lukewarm Christians" friends or family will send you to hell but on sect they are certain are going to hell are Catholics. Everyone is going to hell but they made a point to say the Catholics definitely. Don't know why or didn't care as the whole god thing felt like Santa Cause so I knew I couldn't be religious unless I was pretending but there is certainly something about them. My Uncle & Aunt even voted for the third party guy rather than McCain because my aunt felt that Sarah Palin should be at home taking care of her children.

[Bluenorthwest]

51. This is from November, Francis was Keynote Speaker:

Vatican Strengthens Ties with Evangelicals and Mormons Against Gay Marriage

The presence of American evangelicals and the LDS Church was particularly notable. Rick Warren, pastor of Saddleback Church, and Russell Moore, president of the Southern Baptist Convention’s Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, each gave speeches, and representatives from the Heritage Foundation and the Family Research Council in Washington attended. President Henry Eyring of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints’ first presidency spoke and Elder Tom Perry of the LDS’s Quorum of the Twelve also joined. In the United States, this trio of faiths has worked together to stand against the government’s Affordable Care Act’s contraception mandate, but it was the first time they were coming together at the Vatican to talk about marriage.....

Pope Francis did not spearhead the colloquium, as many casual observers might think. It was organized and led by German Cardinal Gerhard Müller, a strong conservative voice at the Pope’s Synod on the Family last month. Müller is the prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the Vatican group that sponsored the event. Still, Pope Francis gave an opening address to attendees, in which he affirmed the Church’s teaching that children have a right to a mother and a father.
http://time.com/3597245/vatican-evangelicals-mormons-gay-marriage/

[JDPriestly]

68. Actually, Catholics are pretty ignorant about what is in the Bible and how it was put together

too. Pope Francis is not a typical Catholic, and I question whether he is an expert on Bible history.

[Nitram]

94. I would be very surprised if Pope Francis is not well-versed in bible history.

[WinkyDink]

207. SPEAK THE HELL FOR YOURSELF. Maybe 8-year-old Catholics, but do NOT presume to speak for us ADULTS.

[AtheistCrusader]

96. That's not true at all. Francis has not departed from the policies of John Paul II.

Pope Francis has been actively supporting political opposition to same sex marriage in Slovakia and the Phillipines, etc.

He is not different. He seems more humble and approachable only in contrast to Ratzinger.

[Bluenorthwest]

162. I notice you were unable to respond to my post. Figures.

That's what all you Francis lovers do. Throw bullshit and then run for cover, it's classic baiting technique.

[daleanime]

21. You really see no difference between this pope....

and the last one? None at all?

[CharlotteVale]

25. Nope. Not one little bit. Other than better PR, of course.

[daleanime]

26. That's sad.

[AngryOldDem]

46. It is.

I'm a former Catholic and I see Francis as this generation's John XXIII. As Hekate said, things will not change overnight with the Church. That is impossible. But I have been amazed at what he's accomplished so far and I hope he is in the seat for a long, long time.

[skepticscott]

63. Exactly what has he accomplished that matters?

What changes in church doctrine has he made that are "amazing"?

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

76. No real changes in doctrine

However, for one thing, he is willing to listen to those who disagree with him.

For another, he has removed his support from the culture warriors.

This week, he let it be known that if a bishop is complicit in covering up pedophilia by clerics, there will be actual consequences. Unlike, say, Cardinal Law, who JPII allowed to live in gracious retirement in Rome. The bishop of Kansas City, Bishop Finn, was kicked out of his job because he was found guilty of covering up for a priest who was found to have kiddie porn on his computer.

He told Cardinal Pell to look into the finances of the Vatican curia, and after Pell found hundreds of millions of euros in various slush funds, he set up proper financial oversight and required that each office submit a budget that they must stick to.

This probably won't satisfy you, but it's all reforms that have been needed.

[trotsky]

141. I am astonished that this is supposed to register as "change."

However, for one thing, he is willing to listen to those who disagree with him.

Sure, listen, and then discard. What exactly is the difference from not listening at all? PR. That's what.

For another, he has removed his support from the culture warriors.

Are we reading the same news? Frank has been out there calling marriage equality "from Satan" and gay adoption "child abuse" and gender theory equivalent to Nazism. He's got their backs ENTIRELY.

This week, he let it be known that if a bishop is complicit in covering up pedophilia by clerics, there will be actual consequences. Unlike, say, Cardinal Law, who JPII allowed to live in gracious retirement in Rome. The bishop of Kansas City, Bishop Finn, was kicked out of his job because he was found guilty of covering up for a priest who was found to have kiddie porn on his computer.

Finn wasn't "kicked out," he was allowed to resign. And yet he remained involved with functions of the diocese!
http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article19762005.html

“… What did his resignation mean? Nothing, really,” said Sandridge, a Kansas City resident who alleged he was raped by two priests about 30 years ago.

And do tell, where is Bernie Law today? Did the glorious Pope Frank remove him from his cushy retirement at the Vatican? He's changing things, right?

Oh lookie here, not only is Bernie still enjoying the good life, HE'S TAKING PART IN COORDINATING VATICAN ACTIVITIES. In 2012, he signed on to support the crackdown on the liberal American nuns! http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/05/10/11597887-us-priests-reportedly-behind-vatican-crackdown-on-nuns?lite

According to those same reports, Cardinal Bernard F. Law -- disgraced former archbishop of Boston -- was "the person in Rome most forcefully supporting Bishop Lori’s proposal."

The Vatican Bank has been under severe pressure from world governments for years. Frank's actions there were pretty much mandated by outside forces - I don't think he deserves any praise for simply doing what he was FORCED to do.

So yeah, a hell of a lot of people (Catholics included) are NOT SATISFIED with these PR stunts. Deal with it.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

155. I see that you blow off what are significant changes as "PR stunts"

I'm sure that no matter what he did, you are not going to be satisfied, are you?

[trotsky]

170. I see you can't dispute any of my points.

You want to know what change will satisfy me? When your pope and your church stop teaching that homosexuality is "intrinsically disordered." When your pope and your church stop funding and supporting legislation across the globe that continues to treat homosexuals and women as second class citizens, denying them the same rights you and I enjoy, denying the reproductive rights that all humans deserve.

Let me know when that happens. Until then, I'll continue to speak out against your bigoted, homophobic, misogynistic church and pope.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

172. I'm not going to bother

You are, after all, a DU atheist, a group which prefers to sneer than discuss. I don't remember if it was you or someone else who sneered at the pope kissing and hugging a man with a nasty and disfiguring skin condition, it probably doesn't make a difference. You are more interested in deriding the pope than in acknowledging that he is doing anything right. That's why I no longer go to the Religion forum, because you atheists disgust me with your hatreds.

[trotsky]

173. Well thanks for making it personal.

But I can totally understand why you want to attack and insult rather than discuss the history and ongoing behavior of your church.

Like I said, let me know when the changes I mention start happening. Until then, what your pope is doing is completely indistinguishable from a PR campaign.

And actually, why you no longer go to the Religion forum is because you got yourself banned from it multiple times and exposed yourself as a complete fabricator of untruths. Remember?

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

179. Hey, you did it to me all the time in the Religion forum

I suppose that you can dish it out, but you can't take it -- another thing that DU atheists are well known for. You atheists make all sorts of bigoted comments, but whinge to the authorities if anyone has the temerity to say "that comment is bigoted".

Oh, and the Archbishop and auxiliary bishop of Minneapolis-St Paul have just been canned for their parts in the pedophilia coverup. I suppose that you will just sneer at that as well.

[trotsky]

181. Sure, you keep telling yourself that.

Anything other than a critical look at your own church. Attack those horrible atheists instead. Your posts were hidden and you were kicked out of the group and you're still sore about it. You have only yourself to blame.

And nobody was "canned" in Mpls/St.Paul. They again were allowed to RESIGN. Now let's watch both men get a nice retirement package.

[Drahthaardogs]

55. She also thinks Canon Law is in agreement with "Born Again" theologies

so there is that too.

[KingCharlemagne]

89. Not to mention the pesky little fact that Ratzinger was an

actual Nazi (or Nazi wanna-be, more accurately) back in the day. But to this poster, it's merely a matter of better 'PR'.

Whatevs.

[sabrina 1]

32. This Pope has reminded his right wing flock in this country at whom his comments on Gays were

definitely aimed, that they have no RIGHT to judge other people, and that they should start acting like the 'christians' they claim to be and lose their obsessions with Gays and Abortion and turn their attention to the POOR and the 'least among us'.

I'm sorry but I do not remember ANY Pope slamming Republican Catholics the way this Pope has, shutting down their hatred and judgementalism while pointing out their hypocrisy.

I frankly never expected this from any Pope, it sure has received a very angry response from those who grew accustomed to using the Catholicism of Political candidates, like Kerry eg, to smear and judge them, now those like Kerry who tried to over come their attacks, can feel that it is HE who has the support of the highest ranking member of his Church and it is THEY who need to check their behavior.

Iow, he has taken the weapon out of their hands, and placed it in the hands of those they were fond of judging.

That is more than a baby step for a 2000 year old organization and I for one am grateful to see it, and to watch THEM squirm as he points directly at them, sulking like babies, because 'dad' didn't take their side this time.

[Enthusiast]

74. +1

[Bluenorthwest]

157. And how do you explain the Rome conference in November against marriage equality, Francis the

keynote speaker, invited attendees included Tony Perkins of Family Research Council, Maggie Galagher of NOM, people from the Heritage Foundation, and a long list of anti gay activists from around the world.

Those of you who defend the Pope by claiming absurdly that he is more tolerant toward LGBT people refuse to talk about the actual facts such as this conference arranged by the Vatican. Hekate in this very thread ignored this material, simply pretended it was not shown to her, that she was not asked to explain how it fits into her assertions. To exploit LGBT people then refuse to discuss it with LGBT people is stone cold bigotry. Call it what you like, but this is what you are defending:

Vatican Strengthens Ties with Evangelicals and Mormons Against Gay Marriage
"The presence of American evangelicals and the LDS Church was particularly notable. Rick Warren, pastor of Saddleback Church, and Russell Moore, president of the Southern Baptist Convention’s Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, each gave speeches, and representatives from the Heritage Foundation and the Family Research Council in Washington attended. President Henry Eyring of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints’ first presidency spoke and Elder Tom Perry of the LDS’s Quorum of the Twelve also joined. In the United States, this trio of faiths has worked together to stand against the government’s Affordable Care Act’s contraception mandate, but it was the first time they were coming together at the Vatican to talk about marriage.....
Pope Francis did not spearhead the colloquium, as many casual observers might think. It was organized and led by German Cardinal Gerhard Müller, a strong conservative voice at the Pope’s Synod on the Family last month. Müller is the prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the Vatican group that sponsored the event. Still, Pope Francis gave an opening address to attendees, in which he affirmed the Church’s teaching that children have a right to a mother and a father."
http://time.com/3597245/vatican-evangelicals-mormons-gay-marriage/

Tony Perkins, boss to Josh Duggar said this about the event:
“The atmosphere was almost euphoric as the attendees from six of the world’s seven continents broke from the historic gathering to return to their respective nations renewed in their stand for marriage. The courts may declare otherwise, and Hollywood may depict its demise, but the union of a man and a woman as the natural and enduring definition of marriage will endure until the end.”

So that's all groovy according to the Francis defenders, but they won't bother to say exactly why Tony Perkins is so groovy in this context.....

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

72. Is it blindness or ignorance on your part?

Because there are vast differences. Take it from a Catholic who has been fighting the conservatives for decades.

[AngryOldDem]

83. Indeed.

He is what the Church has needed for a long time. The things he is saying have needed to be said, especially to the conservatives who tend to pick and choose among Church doctrine (especially when it comes to social issues and social justice) just as much as they claim the "cafeteria Catholics" do. And his response to the sex scandal has been what should have been done decades ago. That's just for starters.

Some people will never be satisfied; some people just want to argue to argue. If people truly can't see the difference Francis has already made, nothing you or I can say will open the eyes.

[trotsky]

177. "cafeteria Catholics"

You mean like Catholics who support reproductive rights and access to birth control?

[AngryOldDem]

182. That's exactly what the conservatives mean, in part.

I like it too, when people like Rick Santorum are all for supporting and following the Pope's lead, and then back off when the Pope says something they don't like. The encyclical on climate change is a perfect example.

My personal take is people have to form and live with their own consciences. How that conscience is formed is up to that person, their concept of a Higher Power, and whatever other spiritual guidance they want to seek.

[trotsky]

183. So pretty much every Catholic is a "cafeteria Catholic" in a way, right? n/t

[AngryOldDem]

185. If they are honest with themselves, they are.

I don't think there's much in the world that can be taken as 100% truth without questioning and making up one's own mind.

This is why conservatives are not liking this Pope very much. He's challenging them and calling them out on a lot of stuff that they've been getting passes on for years. I was lucky in that most of the Catholics I knew through my church were progressive. But not all are such.

[trotsky]

196. Yet he (and his predecessors) have also been challenging liberals for decades, too.

Calling them out for support of abortion rights, contraceptives, marriage equality, etc.

[AtheistCrusader]

98. His delivery is more humble.

He doesn't talk about the poor while sitting on a. Gold throne, wearing 500$ red Prada shoes.

He says the exact same things policy-wise though. Especially on the issues of abortion, contraception (say, reproductive freedom for short) or homosexuality/SSM, etc.

[mmonk]

29. There is.

I belong to a Franciscan Church where discrimination against gays is not allowed. The Church every year marches in a LGBT pride parade in Durham, NC.

[CharlotteVale]

30. And the Catholic church down the street from me threw out the Boy Scouts and kept thier

popcorn money when the Boy Scouts began allowing gay scoutmasters.

I'm done here.

[JanMichael]

43. I raise you a church down the street that...wait... that's not the point.

I am a agnostic commie that can appreciate the new Pope's direction even though he is anchored down by 2000 years of bullshit. He is doing a great job. It won't take long for him to do more that even you will appreciate.

[CharlotteVale]

44. Good for you.

[JanMichael]

45. Ditto. nt.

[passiveporcupine]

47. I think you may be mixing up the new pope

with the behavior of your local church. The local churches have not all decided to follow the new Pope's direction. That may take a long time.

[DesertFlower]

50. i'm an atheist socialist who was

raised catholic. i like pope frankie and what he's said and done. doesn't mean i'm going back to the church.

[dorkzilla]

52. Ditto

And I love this new Pope. never going back but I love this man. I even bought a neato Pope Francis pen (adorbs-he's giving a thumbs up to the camera with a smile a mile wide on his face) when I was in Italy a few weeks ago. He's washed the feet of the poor, eschewed the vestments of gold normally worn by Popes, drives a Renault rather than being chauffeur driven in a Mercedes, invited homeless and poor to visit the Vatican, says climate change is man-made and it is a moral obligation to care for the Earth and so much more. Saying he's the "same old same old" is pure, willful ignorance since all it takes is a google search.

[AngryOldDem]

84. Ditto.

The Church has a long way to go in terms of reform, but this is a really good start.

[AtheistCrusader]

100. Do you like what he's said about homosexuality and contraceptives?

http://www.cruxnow.com/church/2015/01/16/pope-francis-criticizes-gay-marriage-backs-contraception-ban/

[DesertFlower]

150. no. nt

[KingCharlemagne]

87. 6,000 years of bullshit, if one includes the Old Testament :) - nt

[No Vested Interest]

66. I love that Franciscan church in Durham -

and the messages the friars send as part of their homilies.

Spent many Sundays there while visiting Duke over the last 18 years.
(I remember the old church and the Masses in the shopping center while the church was being enlarged.)

[Baitball Blogger]

36. There is a massive difference between Catholicism and Protestant beliefs.

Catholicism (especially outside of the U.S.) is all about helping the poor. Protestants, on the other hand, believe in a work ethic principle which has steered them far from Jesus's principle of good works.

[dorkzilla]

53. Old Mainline Protestants are still pretty okay

Our local Episcopal and Presbyterian churches do a lot of good for the poor in my area.

The others...not so much.

[Enthusiast]

75. Correct.

The others seem to believe trickle down was advocated by Christ right in the bible.

[KingCharlemagne]

88. The underlying theologies differ greatly too. To wit, Catholics believe one can

be saved by 'works' (which explains why, following the sacrament of Confession, one is assigned various acts of contrition to perform), while most strands of Protestantism believe that one is only saved by 'faith' (with works being relegated to completely irrelevant or at best outward symbols of the inner faith). Luther tried mightily to secure salvation through 'works' and realized that no matter how hard he worked, he was still a sinner in need of 'grace.'

[Baitball Blogger]

99. Thanks for the detailed explanation.

[WinkyDink]

209. Pretty conveeeenient for the greed-heads who profess "faith".

[Gore1FL]

67. He's the Good Pope in the same way Jeb is the Smart Bush.

It's a game of margins!

[KingCharlemagne]

90. LOL. If God can't appreciate 'margins,' then why does (S)he allow

Wall Street?

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

70. I have been trying for years to find a name for a specific logical fallacy

Because person <A> agrees with person <B> or even group <C> on subject <X>, one cannot assume that they agree on anything else.

On another blog some time ago, an extreme conservative and I both posted on government surveillance and the FISA courts and we were in complete agreement (both solidly against). It was the first time we had ever agreed on something.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

80. And on those two issues, you're exactly right.

He hasn't broken with the Catholic Church's stances on those issues. But he has done a serious about face on several other issues. And there simply isn't going to be a more drastic change of Popes than you got with him. He sucks on various things that the Church has always sucked on, but he's actually better on others. If you got to 'vote for Popes' without being a Cardinal, then just maybe we might see a pro-choice or pro-LGBT Pope in our lifetimes. But you can't, so you won't. So maybe just be glad he's putting out a lot of helpful rhetoric that supports progressives and liberals on wealth inequality and climate change, even if you hate him for his other stances. Because he could be like every past Pope, putting his weight behind the deniers and the plutocrats. When you have no say in the matter, half a loaf is better than none. (If you do get say in the matter,then of course fight for the full loaf.)

[ananda]

176. Yeah, I've never heard Pope Frank come out for either..

women's rights or gay rights.

Where did that come from?

[WinkyDink]

206. Did you read who the subject of the article is?

[brooklynite]

3. Perhaps Santorum will be suggesting he leave religion to the religionists?

[NCTraveler]

5. This isn't the onion?

This guy is dangerous.

[leftyladyfrommo]

6. I don't think Santorum is very dangerous.

One person turned out for his last event.

[NCTraveler]

7. I am talking about the Pope. I didn't see Santorums name in the article.

Though I would strongly disagree about Santorum being dangerous.

[NCTraveler]

123. What are you talking about olegramps?

"I would suggest that you crawl back to the scum boards that support killers."

[sharp_stick]

10. He's not dangerous

just slightly more grounded in reality than the average Christian.

[NCTraveler]

12. He is very dangerous.

He is speaking populism often and people are buying into it. He also speaks out against the rights of humans worldwide. He has quieted down on one, while ratcheting up the other in order to bring money and numbers into his flock. He is building his army of hate. That is dangerous. He is a Ratzinger who is presenting himself as compassionate and loving. Well, except if you are one of those others.

[Gloria]

19. He's going to plop himself here right in the middle of the Presidential Election

season....huge crowds, bolstering the crazies...

Don't trust him at all!

[BlindTiresias]

58. Army of hate?

Lol

[Comrade Grumpy]

105. Good grief! Somebody is going unhinged.

[NCTraveler]

120. Yes, I believe the Popes rhetoric to be unhinged and dangerous.

I understand you feel I am the one that is unhinged. I am more than ok with that.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/pope-francis-says-leaving-migrants-to-die-at-sea-is-like-supporting-abortion-and-euthanasia-139846/

[treestar]

124. Within his belief system that is not unhinged

In fact he is asserting in that article's quotes that people should be helped and should work in good conditions. This is why he is different from a fundie of the type he is criticizing here.

[NCTraveler]

129. I do get that and I feel it is why he is so dangerous.

There are many links throughout of him making the same claims of the fundies he is criticizing. That is why I find him to be dangerous. He goes with one message one week, then another the next. Often hateful. I am not opposed to Catholics as a whole. So many of the greatest people in the world are Catholics. That doesn't mean I support the verbiage, often in direct conflict with itself, that comes from the Vatican.

[JonLP24]

188. I'm surprised people are doubting you

I used to think Inhofe was just stupid, pretty much still do but had no idea the "Army of hate" he's been backing in African countries

'I Kill Them!': HBO's VICE Goes To Uganda To See What American Anti-Gay Christians Have Created

American Christian extremists have found a willing host in Uganda, where they have so dramatically affected the culture that average citizens now consider raping and killing gay people a duty.

The latest episode of HBO's VICE, "A Prayer for Uganda," exposes what American Christian extremists, like Scott Lively, have done to the country of Uganda. A poor, landlocked nation of about 37 million people, Uganda has become synonymous with its "Kill The Gays" bill, that was debated for year, generating international condemnation and fear. It became law and then was tossed out by the Ugandan Supreme Court, but only on a technicality.

VICE interviews Member of Parliament David Bahati (image, top left), who authored the bill. "Homosexuality is evil," he says. Bahati is a member of the secretive Washington, D.C. based organization known as The Family, which has helped to coordinate the war against LGBT people in Uganda.

http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/davidbadash/_i_kill_them_hbo_s_vice_goes_to_uganda_to_see_what_american_anti_gay_christians_have_created

Whoever "The Family" is needs to be outed and this is no joke. What VICE covered was very disturbing I was relieved the next one was about a daughter that needs a kidney and the waiting list is like 10 years but that was just how bad the first one was with "corrective rapes". Inhofe.

On edit -- from the VICE journalist who has a very horrified and sickened look hearing the mean discuss how lesbians need to be raped

VICE correspondent Isobel Yeung – that's her face in the top right image – interviewed poor, working class men. She wrote later, "I don't ever recall feeling as heartbroken as the week we spent shooting this."

[Rex]

114. "He also speaks out against the rights of humans worldwide."

Link?

[AtheistCrusader]

116. Sure.

The Vatican leader also spoke out against forcing the teaching of gender theory at school, comparing it to the way the Nazis indoctrinated children.

Here’s the WonderPope attacking transgender, gender fluid, same-sex parental roles, etc.
http://ncronline.org/blogs/francis-chronicles/pope-francis-gender-theory-problem-not-solution

Here he is attacking same sex marriage, and same sex parental couples adopting children.
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/pope-francis-against-gay-adoption-every-person-needs-male-father-and

He actually called same-sex adoption a form of discrimination against children.

Here he is comparing Abortion to abandoning refugees at sea so they drown.
http://www.christianpost.com/news/pope-francis-says-leaving-migrants-to-die-at-sea-is-like-supporting-abortion-and-euthanasia-139846/

Would you like to know more?

[Rex]

117. Thanks.

[Lordquinton]

146. They should tell this pope

To ixnay on the atzinay talk, cause they really don't want to open that can of worms.

[AtheistCrusader]

149. *cough*Rat Line*cough*

Precisely.

[AlbertCat]

140. He is speaking populism often and people are buying into it.

Bingo!

"Buying it" is so true.

I find it amusing that his sophomoric feel good platitudes get everyone all gooey! Who would have thought that the Catholic Church wants to help the poor???? WOW!!!!

Too funny!

[Hekate]

11. Let's just say I hope he still does his own cooking, the way he did when he was a Cardinal.nt

[63splitwindow]

9. It takes courage...

to say these things. BRAVO

[Zorra]

14. He seems to have a lot of potential for growth. At some point he may forsake

the Church and its dogma, give away the vast wealth and possessions of the Church to those in need, designate the Vatican as a homeless shelter, and then embark on a personal path toward personal enlightenment greater spiritual awareness.

[sabrina 1]

34. He has already done some of that. Including admonishing members of the clergy for

owning 'worldly goods' such as fancy cars etc which would be better used to help the poor. Many did listen and sold their cars etc I guess feeling the heat when someone as high up as the Pope seemed to be pointing directly at them.

He can do a lot more where he is right now than if he did leave, after which he would be smeared and isolated and called a 'loon'.

In his position he can change the minds of many Republicans about the poor and minorities by reminding them as he has, that THEY have no right to judge ANYONE, and if that is what they have been doing, they should not be calling themselves Christians. AND he has totally undermined the likes Santorum who uses religion to justify the accumulation of vast wealth for the few, and little if anything for the many. Which is why Santorum is pouting like a child. 'Dad' doesn't love him anymore!

[Bluenorthwest]

158. Speak to this, none of his defenders bother to do so....

Vatican Strengthens Ties with Evangelicals and Mormons Against Gay Marriage
"In a month when papal conversation about marriage has been all the rage, the Vatican is enlisting a new set of allies to support its commitment to marriage between a man and a woman: American evangelicals and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

This week the Vatican hosted a three-day, international, interreligious colloquium called Humanum, “The Complementarity of Man and Woman: An International Colloquium.”
The presence of American evangelicals and the LDS Church was particularly notable. Rick Warren, pastor of Saddleback Church, and Russell Moore, president of the Southern Baptist Convention’s Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, each gave speeches, and representatives from the Heritage Foundation and the Family Research Council in Washington attended. President Henry Eyring of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints’ first presidency spoke and Elder Tom Perry of the LDS’s Quorum of the Twelve also joined. In the United States, this trio of faiths has worked together to stand against the government’s Affordable Care Act’s contraception mandate, but it was the first time they were coming together at the Vatican to talk about marriage."
http://time.com/3597245/vatican-evangelicals-mormons-gay-marriage/


I am sick of seeing activist homophobes praised on DU as if they were progressives. Some here see progressive as inclusive of discriminatory and bigoted mindsets, I do not.
People who oppose my rights are fascists, and that's what Francis it.

[SidDithers]

15. ...

Sid

[onehandle]

17. Pope Francis has lunch with gay, transgender inmates

While on a visit to Naples, Italy, Pope Francis visited the Giuseppe Salvia Detention Center in Poggiorale, outside of Naples. According to the Religion News Service, the pope insisted on the visit including lunch with inmates, though it was not on his original schedule. Around 90 inmates, randomly chosen by lottery, attended the lunch, and that group included 10 inmates from a section of the prison reserved for gay and transgender inmates, and inmates who are HIV-positive.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/pope-francis-lunch-gay-transgender-inmates

[63splitwindow]

56. he seems more of a "hands on" person than the cartoon suggests...

[shenmue]

16. Yes!

[Gloria]

18. When the Catholic Church stops abusing women re: their bodies

maybe I'll listen to Pope Frank...he's a good PR guy, that's for sure....I don't see much difference on that score between the CC and the right wing cultists.

[certainot]

22. it is an easily curable disease, as this guy explains

[Kingofalldems]

23. Well the fundies don't consider Cathlics to be Christian.

[fadedrose]

24. Oh-Ohh

They're gonna be calling him the anti-Christ now, or else Obama is, and the Pope is the false prophet.

Everybody get ready. It won't be pretty. Stay away from the rage of all these TV preachers for a couple of years...Catholics might just pick up some converts...

I don't think the Pope knows how poisonous their language is...he's surrounded by those who feel the same, or those who feel different but have the sense to keep their mouths shut...

I hold with no religion, but if I had to for some reason, Francis would be my pick for a Sunday sermon...

[Bluenorthwest]

164. You say 'oh-oh' as if this was news. It's a two year old article.

Did the things you predicted happen? Not so much. What did happen far more recently was that the Vatican held a conference against marriage equality and invited all the Fundies and they had a great time. Tony Perkins of Family Research Council, employers of Josh Duggar, said the atmosphere was euphoric. Francis gave the key note address, of course.

Pope fans seem to recycle a few of his statements and do a big 'Wow, this will get him killed' show about it each and every time. It's to cover for the actual actions of Francis.

http://time.com/3597245/vatican-evangelicals-mormons-gay-marriage/

[fadedrose]

174. Did not read the link`

because although I like this pope, I am not religious. Last thing I saw was "last Thursday."

Still didn't read the link, nor the one about evangelicals and gay marriages that you submitted to me.

Like I said, I don't really care. But this pope is a nice man, even if he were an atheist or a moslem. He accepts people, a good habit to have.

[Bluenorthwest]

193. None of those who like the Pope can read the truth and respond to it. At least openly say you

don't care about LGBT people, at least you are honest 'I won't read the facts and I don't care'. This man you say is good calls myself, my family and my community terrible things.

[fadedrose]

204. I care about LGBT people

The pope is likable because he is approachable and doesn't wear huge hats, children can grab onto him, and he drove his old car around Rome, used buses, etc., was humble. But I don't have a pope, used to long ago, but no more. And he's a lot nicer than the ones we had when I was a kid. His basic beliefs are not mine, but I like his humility.

I don't care what evangelicals think because I think they are phonies and act like they own heaven and know everybody whose going there and who isn't.
Life is too short to waste my time reading what evangelicals think.

I know we have laws now to protect LGBT people, there are some die hards, but on the whole, a lot of progress was made and will continue to be made.

I was never an obstacle to their having the lifestyle they seek, do why are you picking on me?

And as far as gay marriage is concerned, I can't understand why everybody thinks marriage is so great. Almost all the young people I know are living together without marriage. There are legal rights, and they are important. But love is the most important thing still.

And since my fingers are sore from carpal tunnel, dishes and gardening, I hate typing, and since I got my eyes laze red to clean off the floaters
after cataract removed and eyes cleaned.. I don't like to read, unless the article is very short. waiting for this stuff to load so I can read the damned links is using up all the time I could spare on this contraption. Arthritis is why I don't read links, aches and pains. And my neck is starting to hurt from the tension I seem to have corresponding to your post....

Now for squinting and spell check....have a good evening. Am sad about SC and the shootings and can't get interested in other stuff tonight.

[MisterP]

27. I have wondered which group America'll go after once we're bored with the Great Muslim Menace

I guessed Jews or Chinese, but maybe the Papists will be in for it again!

[BlancheSplanchnik]

40. That question is already answered; it's happening now.

Persecuting "impure" women.
There's not a whole lot of outcry about it, though. No massive public challenges. So it's continuing apace.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

41. I don't think we'll stop fearing Muslims until the ME is pacified

IOW, I don't think we'll ever stop being afraid of Muslims. "We" being the minority of people who are afraid of all PNLU (People Not Like Us). Unfortunately, because of their intensely focused hatred they hold more sway than their numbers would suggest.

[Scootaloo]

81. "Pacified"?

yeeeech.

[KingCharlemagne]

91. LOL - Not fair when I have coffee in my mouth! - nt

[Exilednight]

28. Starts making you wonder if we're on the right track when Bill Maher likes the pope and Mel Gibson

doesn't.

[SoapBox]

31. Oh SNAP!

Westboro Baptist Krazy Khurch, ain't gonna like that kind of talk.

Good!

[padfun]

35. Looks to me as if we have a couple of those in this thread

n/t

[hamsterjill]

33. Francis is reminding them about the true teachings of Jesus Christ.

It infuriates them. The true elements of Christianity get in the way of their greed.

I am a Christian, but not a Catholic. I love Francis. He tells it like it is as far as I'm concerned.

[Ilsa]

61. I certainly prefer him to all of the other popes and

Every single RW extremist christian minister.

[Enthusiast]

77. Me too.

[treestar]

121. This ^^^^^^^^^

It's a Pope. So it's kind of miraculous he says what he does. So he's not for choice or gay marriage, but at least he's not a total right wing nut job. For a Pope, not bad.

[JonLP24]

189. LOL

anything little he does or says is treated as if its a huge accomplishment but anything else his hands are tied what do you expect? I thought it was bad with politicians and the personality cults but the pope defense stretches this to whole new levels.

The Vatican is a very corrupt place,


Papal resignation linked to inquiry into 'Vatican gay officials', says paper
Pope's staff decline to confirm or deny La Repubblica claims linking 'Vatileaks' affair and discovery of 'blackmailed gay clergy'


A potentially explosive report has linked the resignation of Pope Benedict XVI to the discovery of a network of gay prelates in the Vatican, some of whom – the report said – were being blackmailed by outsiders.

The pope's spokesman declined to confirm or deny the report, which was carried by the Italian daily newspaper La Repubblica.

The paper said the pope had taken the decision on 17 December that he was going to resign – the day he received a dossier compiled by three cardinals delegated to look into the so-called "Vatileaks" affair.

Last May Pope Benedict's butler, Paolo Gabriele, was arrested and charged with having stolen and leaked papal correspondence that depicted the Vatican as a seething hotbed of intrigue and infighting.

According to La Repubblica, the dossier comprising "two volumes of almost 300 pages – bound in red" had been consigned to a safe in the papal apartments and would be delivered to the pope's successor upon his election.

The newspaper said the cardinals described a number of factions, including one whose members were "united by sexual orientation".

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/21/pope-retired-amid-gay-bishop-blackmail-inquiry

Most of this was under Benedict but I highly doubt the culture of corruption has changed --- it is begging to be corrupt.

[treestar]

197. Who would expect a Pope to be pro-choice and pro-LBGT?

At this time in history? I just see no reason to ignore areas of agreement with someone because you disagree with them on something else - in fact it might help sway them in the long run.

[JonLP24]

201. He has more power to sway people in the long run

I expect a Pope to be very corrupt and potentially contributing to much worse than a simple disagreement with his pedophile bullshit in Argentina and have the local press apologizing for reporting the truth on the Pope.

[AtheistCrusader]

107. Here's Francis telling it 'like it is'

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6630876

Fortunately, it's only 'like it is' from his own bigoted vantage point.

[hamsterjill]

118. My response.

I don't have to agree with someone on every single issue to still see good in their comments and actions on other subjects.

[AtheistCrusader]

122. So, the owner of the single richest private organization on the planet

Says nice things about income inequality, while jet-setting around the world moving heaven and earth trying to prevent legalization of same sex marriage, ss couple adopting children, preventing family planning, etc.

What other subjects has he materially differed from his predecessors on?

[treestar]

130. Are you discounting where he agrees with you?

Presumably this "jet setting" is also in service of the other things he believes in. Climate change, poor people. And the wealth of the organization isn't something he takes big advantage of. He's not like Westboro Baptists, obsessed only with stopping gay marriage - since he takes on other things and some of those things we agree on, we can agree to agree, so to speak.

Can't expect a Pope to take on the cause of pro-choice or gay marriage in this lifetime. For a Pope, he's not bad.

[AtheistCrusader]

134. No, he literally just went to Slovakia and the Philippines because of referendums

On the ballot. About SSM.

The pope isn't merely silent on these right wing issues, he's actively, directly, and materially supporting them.

So too with opposition to contraceptives and abortion. Etc.

[hamsterjill]

143. I think he differs from his predecessors on the issue of homosexuality.

Obviously not the degree that you might like, but I see a softening.

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/07/29/pope-francis-on-gays-who-am-i-to-judge/

Look, I'm a flaming heterosexual who absolutely and positively believes that anyone should be able to marry, live his/her life the way they choose - to each his/her own! But I am not going to despise Francis if he happens to disagree on any given subject. I see in him a softening of the views of the Vatican and a more enlightened approach to things, in general. He's called out the Christian right, and I like that he's done that.

I believe that Christianity has pretty much been hijacked the last few years by a bunch of yahoos who have gotten completely away from what Jesus intended, and have taken the scriptures and used them to justify hatred, greed, degrading of women, and other things. It was refreshing to see Francis address that.

There are many, many issues facing this world that we live in. The freedom to marry for everyone is most definitely an important issue, but it is not the only issue. Hunger, starvation, climate change, women's rights, etc. are all also important aspects to our society evolving as it needs to evolve.

I see by your screen name that you are atheist, as is your right. But it is also Francis' right to believe as he sees fit, as well. You must accept that. I don't have to condone his belief system to accept and acknowledge that he has a right to believe as he wishes. There are people in this world who truly believe that homosexuality is a sin. I don't have to like it. But it is their right to believe that way. The way to change their minds is NOT to hate them, but to try to educate them.

[Bluenorthwest]

159. Read this, oh ye straight person who claims to support equality, and give us your wisdoms:

Vatican Strengthens Ties with Evangelicals and Mormons Against Gay Marriage
http://time.com/3597245/vatican-evangelicals-mormons-gay-marriage/

You claim this Pope is nicer to LGBT people but he is organizing the world against us. Please explain. Read the article and tell me what you think of Tony Perkins comments at the end.
And tell me what sort of education Francis is giving the world at these meetings of his.

[hamsterjill]

180. No, I don't think Francis is organizing the world against you.

The world (as a whole) was at one time against you ("you" being plural here, and better stated - against LGBT lifestyles). Things have gotten better over time. There is now freedom in many states in America for LGBT couples to marry, and Ireland just came on board. Things are moving in the right direction - slowly, of course, but they are moving. I think we all hope that they continue to progress until there is no more discrimination, and we all realize that things are not there yet.

As for ole Tony Perkins comments - what else would you expect from someone who believes that LGBT lifestyles are sins? It's his right to believe as he likes - whether I like it, or whether you like it. You can't make people accept that which they refuse to accept. But his comments make him sound like a fool trying to live back in the 50's, and his relevance has a limited life span.

I'm not sure exactly what it is that you are expecting from Francis. He's not going to openly condone the LGBT lifestyle because that lifestyle is still not accepted by Catholicism. But he isn't calling for all LGBT people to be killed either - like some religious idiots are still doing.

My "wisdoms" would be to take what you want from him, go on about your business, and live your life as you see fit. I would offer that same wisdom to anyone over any given subject! To me, Francis is certainly a more progressive-minded Pope than his predecessor.

[Bluenorthwest]

194. And if Tony Perkins is so terrible, why is he invited to this anti equality conference by Francis,

if Francis is so good? You are denying that entire event, the nature of it, the fact that it was Vatican run and full of hate groups there by invitation. It was a global anti equality conference, and you are ignoring the facts.
Not calling for us to be killed? That's your standard? How disgusting your verbiage gets, sinking to threats against our lives so quickly. We get it, that's what you folks want.

[hamsterjill]

199. Oh, good grief!

You are reaching out there pretty far with this post in my opinion.

"You folks"??? Really? Sheesh!

[Bluenorthwest]

195. And being gay is not a 'lifestyle'

Jesus. Are you posting from 1977?

[hamsterjill]

200. Oh, so you're the grammar police, now, too?

Some people truly need to get over themselves.

[Bluenorthwest]

205. That's not about grammar, it's about using a term that is a right wing insult.

Look it up, do yourself a favor 'gay lifestyle' is a nasty term. If a candidate used that term, they'd hear endless criticism and they'd be a Republican. Democrats know better and you should too.

[hamsterjill]

212. Okay, so what word should I have used in my post?

Please educate me. Here's your chance. The sentence in question is as follows:

"I'm not sure exactly what it is that you are expecting from Francis. He's not going to openly condone the LGBT lifestyle because that lifestyle is still not accepted by Catholicism. But he isn't calling for all LGBT people to be killed either - like some religious idiots are still doing."


Please provide me with what word in the English language should be used in place of "lifestyle" in this specific paragraph.

[treestar]

127. Exactly.

The Pope agrees with me on climate change but disagrees on same sex marriage. For a Pope, he agrees with me more than they usually do.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

39. I agree.

And I'm glad he said it out loud. Need more decent people in high places making that clear.

[muriel_volestrangler]

42. So, how many people actually read what he said (this was October 2013, by the way)?

http://en.radiovaticana.va/storico/2013/10/17/pope_francis_at_mass_calls_for_greater_openness_/in2-738150

It's not about politics. It's about religion.

It's amazing; the Pope says some things 2 years ago, and everyone falls over themselves on DU when they're reprinted, as if they have made a difference in those 2 years.

[PeaceNikki]

48. This ^

[Bluenorthwest]

57. Dishonesty is the hallmark trait of Francis promotion....

In November the Vatican held and anti gay conference in Rome, all the worst Evangelicals were there, Family Research Council, NOM, Heritage Foundation, Tony Perkins, the Southern Baptists leaders, the LDS leaders....

[totodeinhere]

59. This pope has a very good marketing department and it has been a big success in fooling

people into believing that things have changed in the Catholic Church when in fact they have not. Not one major doctrine has changed one iota since he took office. Yes he has put a smiley face on, but it's all a ruse.

[Lordquinton]

115. I had to check te date on this thread a couple times

Cause it all felt so familiar

[pa28]

54. K&R

[Spitfire of ATJ]

60. I posted an example of it in the Video & Multimedia forum.

[YOHABLO]

62. Religion in and of itself is poisonous. Francis should be honest about the Bible.

[AngryAmish]

64. That damn peace of Westphalia...it needs to be relitigated.

Get em, Pope, get em.

[KingCharlemagne]

92. With Republicans in charge of both Congress and the Executive in Jan. 2017, we'll

be headed straight to 1617. Have no fear!

[freshwest]

65. There goes the welcome mat from the right... n/t

[Betty Karlson]

69. Thanks for pointing out others' splinters, Your so-called Holiness

Now if you will excuse me, there is a little something in your eye.

Like when you called an Irish referendum "a defeat for humanity"?
Like when you called transgender identity "a danger"?

Actually, it seems you eye is full of that stuff! And other stuff too! How do you even manage to see other people's splinters?

[KingCharlemagne]

93. I like Francis (a lot), but I also think he needs to read your post forthwith. Bravo! - nt

[Enthusiast]

71. Kicked and recommended a whole bunch!

Their ideological fanaticism has not only damaged religion it has damaged the nation.

[barbtries]

78. the pope is right.

i don't care much for religion but i think it's gotta be a good thing that a religious figure with this much power is saying some things that need to be said.

[lovemydog]

79. This may be the only time I quote the Pope.

I'm going to remember that.

[Pooka Fey]

82. Reading post #1, is the meaning "RW Piece of Shit" or "Piece of Shit Catholic"?

It's so interesting to see what doesn't get an Alert on DU sometimes. But why piss in the wind?

[truebrit71]

132. Either is appropriate as that post refers to Bill Donahue...

But please feel free to alert in defense of that piece of shit rw catholic...

[Faux pas]

101. I agree with him!

[AtheistCrusader]

111. You agree with a headline.

I certainly hope you don't actually agree with home, because he is the SOURCE of many right wing positions for millions of Americans on sexuality and marriage, on contraceptives and family planning, on end of life decisions, you name it.

He just traveled around the world speaking out against the legalization of same sex marriage. That was his agenda.

[Faux pas]

133. Yes, the headline.

I was raised catholic, have totally recovered from the brain washing. Called myself 'agnostic' for years and finally had to admit that I AM an atheist.

[raouldukelives]

102. As a lifelong Christian I have been very uplifted by Pope Francis.

In much the same way that I have felt uplifted by Bernie Sanders.

Someone in a prominent position of power who speaks and tries to personally exemplify what has held me grounded in my political & religious faiths.

Oddly enough, both of them rising to prominence at the same time against the same forces.

Well, I'll just say I could be feeling quite less optimistic about the future than I do today thanks to them both.

[AtheistCrusader]

108. I'm just going to assume you mean pro-Francis PR and not reality because

Reality, because in reality this pope calls the political movement to legalize same sex marriage a move by satan himself to destroy gods apparently wonderful plan.

He just got home from a trip around the world supporting opposition to same sex marriage legalization in Sri Lanka, Slovakian, and the Philippines.

http://www.cruxnow.com/church/2015/01/16/pope-francis-criticizes-gay-marriage-backs-contraception-ban/

Presumably he didn't stop in Ireland because the polls showed it was going to pass and that the people are ready to drive his church Into the sea over child abuse.

The more you actually look at what he says, the less distinguishable he is from ratzingers predecessor.

[raouldukelives]

138. So, I'll just go ahead and mark you down as less optimistic.

I totally understand where you are coming from. I am not a fan of the actions of the Catholic Church nor a defender of its record over the history of humankind.

Only a simple person who feels things could be much worse than they currently are.

I don't know, listen to me try to justify it. This is most likely exactly how it sounds to me when someone tells me "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good." Which I generally despise to hear.

You are right, of course. "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

Still, I can't help but believe the man who uttered those immortal words that have guided my life would feel the same faint glimmer of optimism I do, today.

[AtheistCrusader]

142. I'm definitely less than optimistic.

However, to atone for my acerbic response to you, when you were actually looking for a discussion, I would grant that his actions seem to have unblocked or got the ball rolling on us-Cuba relations. Or he jumped on something that was happening anyway, or lent some star power to it, I'm not sure, but he did get involved and something material came of it, which is great.

[Bluenorthwest]

163. Bernie Sanders is a supporter of LGBT rights and persons, and a strong supporter of women's total

freedom in reproductive choices, the Pope is the world's leading opponent of both. When you say that Bernie and the Pope are fighting against the same forces, and the Pope is fighting against LGBT people and women who favor choice, what do you think it sounds like to say, me as a gay person?
You lavish praise on yourself as an optimist. But what you are is self congratulatory and self deluding. Your verbiage sets LGBT people in the column 'things Bernie is fighting against' by casually claiming that he and the Pope are fighting the same forces. They are not fighting the same forces. Bernie is not fighting against marriage equality. He is not fighting against contraception coverage and contraception itself. The Pope most certainly and actively is doing those things.

Your verbiage is exclusionary and self serving, not optimistic.

[raouldukelives]

178. Your literally only the second person who prefered Ratzinger I've come across.

I am sorry for the stance of the Catholic Church and indeed, all religions on LGBT, racial and sexuality issues, as well as all the wars carried out in their names against the weakest, covering up molestation, torture, terrorists, mass graves, horrible things. Horrible things.

Still, however unexplainable it may seem, I am more optimistic with Francis.

[Bluenorthwest]

192. That's very dishonest of you, I never said any such thing

What gives you the idea you have the right to put words into my mouth? I assume that's a demonstration of your Franciscan views toward LGBT people.
You did not bother to respond to what I did say, then you wrote some bullshit, ascribed it to me and argued with that.
Your ethics are lacking.

[raouldukelives]

198. Sorry for the misinterpretation.

I said I felt more optimistic with Francis as Pope.

I feel he and Bernie are against many of the same forces who create harder conditions or outright deny justice, democracy, equality, the environment and a habitable planet for all of us. Namely, corporate greed and those who finance their salvos.

I am not a Catholic. But many wealthy and corporate connected lackeys are. My understanding is that the words of the Pope carry heavy weight with them. I was only expressing my optimism that it is true. We shall see.

[Gregorian]

104. HOLY SHIT

We've got a live one. He sees the mess we're in. This is fantastic news. Best news in years!

[gopiscrap]

113. Excellent

I totally agree with him. I am so jazzed, my family and I will be in a papal audience with him in a few weeks.

[AtheistCrusader]

119. Ask him about same sex marriage and see how 'jazzed' you are.

Good to see you read past the headline.

[gopiscrap]

128. I understand that

and truly wish he would see to it to change his heart..that said, I do think he is the best Pope on peace and justice issues since John XXIII I do believe he has the most promise for change in the Church in over v50 years.

[damnedifIknow]

175. I'm not a religious person and know little about the Catholic church or any other

but I agree with you. If this Pope is starting to see the light then let it shine.

[No Vested Interest]

145. Pleasae report back re the Papal audience

when you've had the experience.

[gopiscrap]

184. OK will do

audience is in Vatican City July 8

[liberal N proud]

126. like this guy

[LostOne4Ever]

131. He denounces hatred of gays? Really?

http://www.salon.com/2013/03/14/pope_francis_on_gay_rights_his_5_worst_quotes/

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/cardinal_bergoglio_hits_out_at_same-sex_marriage

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1500255.htm

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/la-oe-moss-pope-francis-women-20141208-story.html

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Trying to make this bigot into a hero is a slap in the face of all the people he has denounced.[/font]

[AtheistCrusader]

136. What, he only said it's the work of satan, sheesh.

Don't have to make a federal case out of it.

Who takes that satan guy seriously anyway?



http://www.cruxnow.com/church/2014/10/31/pope-francis-the-devil-is-real-and-dont-underestimate-him/

[damnedifIknow]

165. Pope says Catholic Church should not dismiss gay marriage

"The Pope’s attitude towards homosexuality has won him plaudits and earned him a place on the cover of The Advocate, a gay news magazine"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/10688421/Pope-says-Catholic-Church-should-not-dismiss-gay-marriage.html

[beam me up scottie]

166. "Pope Francis on gay rights: His 5 worst quotes"

Pope Francis on gay rights: His 5 worst quotes

The new pontiff is being hailed as a fresh choice, but there's nothing new about his opposition to gay rights


Pope Francis has been praised for his humility (he picks up his own luggage!), his acceptance of other faiths (he won’t insult the Prophet Mohammed in public addresses!) and his “precedent shattering” name choice (more humility!).

But the pontiff who is being hailed as a “new direction” for the Catholic Church is the same-old brand of theological conservative who opposes the ordination of women, abortion and the fundamental rights of gays and lesbians.

In fact, then-Cardinal Jose Bergoglio was a major force against the 2010 move to legalize same-sex marriage in his native Argentina. Though he ultimately failed, Bergoglio used the full weight of the church to crush the measure.

Here, a collection of his very worst quotes on the issue.

1. A Senate vote on gay marriage is a destructive pretension against the plan of God

From a letter to the Carmelite Sisters of Buenos Aires on the perils of marriage equality:

“Let’s not be naïve, we’re not talking about a simple political battle; it is a destructive pretension against the plan of God. We are not talking about a mere bill, but rather a machination of the Father of Lies that seeks to confuse and deceive the children of God.”

2. Gay marriage will destroy the family

More from the same letter to the four monasteries of Argentina:

“The Argentine people will face a situation whose outcome can seriously harm the family… At stake is the identity and survival of the family: father, mother and children.

3. Gay parenting is a rejection of God’s law engraved in our hearts

Again:

“At stake are the lives of many children who will be discriminated against in advance, and deprived of their human development given by a father and a mother and willed by God. At stake is the total rejection of God’s law engraved in our hearts.”

4. The political struggle against marriage equality is war

And finally:

“The bill will be discussed in the Senate after July 13. Look at San Jose, Maria, Child and ask them [to] fervently defend Argentina’s family at this time. [Be reminded] what God told his people in a time of great anguish: ‘This war is not yours but God’s.’ May they succor, defend and join God in this war.”

5. Gay adoption is discrimination against children

According to the National Catholic Reporter, Francis called gay adoption a form of “discrimination against children.” A comment that resulted in a public rebuke from Argentine President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner, who said that Francis’ remarks suggested “medieval times and the Inquisition.”

http://www.salon.com/2013/03/14/pope_francis_on_gay_rights_his_5_worst_quotes/

[LostOne4Ever]

168. Where in that link does he renounce hatred of gays?

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Where in it does it show him taking back any of his previous statements or in anyways saying they were changing position?

Why does it not bring up the fact that when the pope brought up "who am I to judge" that it refers to gay priests WHO REMAIN CELEBATE. That it does not reflect on his position on homosexuality in general? That he was pretty much stating the same policy my former religion held since before Benedict was pope? Where is the love for Benedict on here? The positions are the EXACT same...

Do you think the editors of the Advocate are perfect? That they can't be fooled by a PR dog and pony show?

And since that article came out the vatican said this about same-sex marriage in Ireland:[/font]

The church must take account of this reality, but in the sense that it must strengthen its commitment to evangelisation. I think that you cannot just talk of a defeat for Christian principles, but of a defeat for humanity.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/26/vatican-ireland-gay-marriage-referendum-vote-defeat-for-humanity

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Can you post any links showing the Pope condemning this statement? Renouncing his previous campaign against marriage equality in South America?

...

I won't hold my breath.

Again, all this praise for this man is a slap in the face to the people the church hurts and continues to persecute. [/font]

[OldEurope]

135. ...says the leader of an organisation ...

...with homophobic, misogynistic and authoritarian doctrines.
He's simply fearing that he might lose influence.

As an atheist I don't like those evangelicals either.

[AlbertCat]

137. So..... what's he gonna do about it?

Watch fundy protestants make this a "Catholics hate Protestants" thing!

[YoungDemCA]

139. I've never understood how the Catholic Church can maintain patriarchal stances toward women...

..and opposition to homosexuality, while simultaneously claiming to support "social justice."

Then again, perhaps they define "social justice" differently from how American progressives define it. Or they're self-serving hypocrites. Maybe a bit of both, actually.

[WinkyDink]

211. So don't be a Catholic. Easy-peasy.

[Lordquinton]

147. Are you gonna add that this is old?

Two years old and his actions have not borne this out.

This is a very dishonest article, repeating an old story as if it just happened hoping people won't follow the link.

[damnedifIknow]

148. Posted 6/6/2015

I have never heard of this before and I'm very happy I did.

[muriel_volestrangler]

153. It's from Oct 21, 2013

Pope Francis Takes Aim At Ideologically Obsessed Christians, Says They Have Illness (VIDEO)
AUTHOR: STEPHEN D. FOSTER JR. OCTOBER 21, 2013 3:17 PM

Pope Francis has been very clear about how he feels about ideological purity in religion. He’s been particularly critical of right-wing Christian fundamentalism. Pope Francis has shifted the focus of the Catholic Church to issues facing the poor and the sick. He has railed against economic inequality and has criticized the anti-gay and anti-abortion strains that have come to dominate the Christian Right here in America. Such ideological extremism is dangerous, not only to Christianity, but to the world. And Pope Francis said as much last Thursday.
...
Clearly, Pope Francis isn’t fond of the extreme ideals of the Christian Right. He supports helping the poor. He believes in economic fairness. He denounces hatred of gay people. He thinks the war against abortion and birth control has gone too far. Considering all of these things, it’s pretty obvious that Pope Francis was mostly talking to right-wing Christians on Thursday. Their ideological fanaticism has damaged religion. They have abandoned the true teachings of Jesus to pursue an extremist agenda. And Pope Francis just called them out for it. Cue right-wing rage in 3, 2, 1…


http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/10/21/pope-francis-right-wing-christians/

'Op-Ed News' is just a website on which any member can put up an opinion or article. It's just like GD. James Quandy found this 18 month old blog post, and copied it. He did credit it - that's the first line "For the original article in "Addicting Info", quoted from below: click here".

[Lordquinton]

154. October 21, 2013 • By Stephen D. Foster Jr.

The link in the first sentence, this one is a repost basically.

[avaistheone1]

151. k&r

[Bluenorthwest]

160. Since this is 2 years old, let me show you what Francis was up to in November last.

Vatican Strengthens Ties with Evangelicals and Mormons Against Gay Marriage
"The presence of American evangelicals and the LDS Church was particularly notable. Rick Warren, pastor of Saddleback Church, and Russell Moore, president of the Southern Baptist Convention’s Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, each gave speeches, and representatives from the Heritage Foundation and the Family Research Council in Washington attended. President Henry Eyring of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints’ first presidency spoke and Elder Tom Perry of the LDS’s Quorum of the Twelve also joined. In the United States, this trio of faiths has worked together to stand against the government’s Affordable Care Act’s contraception mandate, but it was the first time they were coming together at the Vatican to talk about marriage."
http://time.com/3597245/vatican-evangelicals-mormons-gay-marriage/

Lots of information at the link. Care to discuss this reality? None of Francis' promoters on DU thus far have had the common courtesy to address this when it is brought to them, almost as if they were actively avoiding the facts....

[LostOne4Ever]

169. Oh but he was in the Advocate, don't you know?

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]That TOTALLY makes up for all the bigoted and hateful things he says, for the harm the church does to women and the LGBTQ community!

Never mind that the church actively campaigns against LBGTQ and women's issue and condemns "GENDER THEORY."

He was in the advocate! He is a paragon of LGBTQ accepetance!



These type of threads are a slap in the face of everyone harmed by the church UNDER HIS watch, but the apologists don't give a shit.[/font]

[beam me up scottie]

171. Five Reasons Why The Advocate Is Dangerously Wrong To Name Pope Francis Person Of The Year

http://www.queerty.com/five-reasons-why-the-advocate-is-dangerously-wrong-to-name-pope-francis-man-of-the-year-20131219

Not everyone was thrilled with that decision.

[Jefferson23]

161. How is this anything more than tone it down? Why doesn't he just clear up the nonsense that

his religion has any credibility to decide anything about gay people?

Why doesn't he clear up their bullshit about contraception and abortion.
Where in his book is all this crap anyway? There has to be nonsense propagated
by his bible that they have evolved on before..so what is the holdout for more
if not his own need and comfort level to see people oppressed and they can
stay there. If you are a leader of a billion people and you want to help them
evolve stop blaming the fringe elements as the problem and be bold yourself.

I don't think I will ever understand what is considered great about this man.

[beam me up scottie]

167. "Pope Francis Against Gay Marriage, Gay Adoption"

Pope Francis Against Gay Marriage, Gay Adoption

Pope Francis is a conservative who is anti-gay marriage and anti-gay adoption. He has described same-sex marriage as the work of the devil and a “destructive attack on God’s plan.” He has also said that gay adoption is a form of discrimination against children.

In 2010, Francis championed against a bill for same-sex marriage and gay adoption, according to the National Catholic Register.

“he Argentine people will face a situation whose outcome can seriously harm the family," he wrote to the four monasteries in Argentina. "At stake is the identity and survival of the family: father, mother and children. At stake are the lives of many children who will be discriminated against in advance, and deprived of their human development given by a father and a mother and willed by God. At stake is the total rejection of God’s law engraved in our hearts.”

He went on to describe it as a "‘move’ of the Father of Lies who seeks to confuse and deceive the children of God" and asked for lawmakers to "not act in error." In John 8:44, the Father of Lies is the devil.

...

Graddick also specifically addressed Francis' previous comments about gay adoption being a "discrimination against children."

"The real discrimination against children is the pedophilia that has run rampant in the Catholic Church with little more than collusion from the Vatican," he said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/13/pope-francis-gay-marriage-anti_n_2869221.html

[JonLP24]

190. Given the fact he's in Argentina which is where "The Family" visits too

Under the same pretense is very ugly. A big fucking spotlight should be shined on what he is going on here than say, "he's a nice man"

For years I wondered why the Ugandan nationals were given a rifle with a bullet proof vest to guard Baghdad International Airport (the checkpoint going on -- I was there and saw for my own eyes). I didn't think of it as much more than a quirk because all the others were trafficked, abused, and exploited and treated as if they were all potential terrorists (most come from India, Nepal, Phillipines, and some North African countries. I'm starting to get a better understanding of why and it starts with Inhofe.

From Booklist
Even after the sexual affairs of several congressmen brought the Fellowship (and its D.C. residence on C Street) into the light, most Americans have still never heard of this elitist fundamentalist organization. Even those who have will have trouble getting their heads around a mostly faceless organization whose goal is to convert the world to a trickle-down Christianity, as Sharlet calls it, where God has chosen the leaders (them) and everyone else follows. With our leaders somehow prechosen, it makes it easier to forgive their transgressions (the Fellowship, for example, has no problem working with heads of state like Haiti’s Papa Doc Duvalier and those in present-day Uganda, who advocate the death penalty for homosexuals).That this heavily financed, multilayered organization has been operating for decades—and today is actively implanted within the U.S. military—makes this well-documented, probing investigation even more mind-bending. Mostly, those in the Fellowship don’t talk. Maybe now the discussion will start. HIGH-DEMAND BACKSTORY: When the affairs of Fellowship members Senator John Ensign R-Nev. and South Carolina governor Mark Sanford broke, Sharlet’s book The Family became a best-seller. His follow-up is sure to attract similar attention. --Ilene Cooper --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0316091065/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0316091065&linkCode=as2&tag=thenewcivrigm-20&linkId=UO6OIXAM23KZKSLI

More recently this is what is going on in Uganda -- 'I Kill Them!': HBO's VICE Goes To Uganda To See What American Anti-Gay Christians Have Created

American Christian extremists have found a willing host in Uganda, where they have so dramatically affected the culture that average citizens now consider raping and killing gay people a duty.

The latest episode of HBO's VICE, "A Prayer for Uganda," exposes what American Christian extremists, like Scott Lively, have done to the country of Uganda. A poor, landlocked nation of about 37 million people, Uganda has become synonymous with its "Kill The Gays" bill, that was debated for year, generating international condemnation and fear. It became law and then was tossed out by the Ugandan Supreme Court, but only on a technicality.

VICE interviews Member of Parliament David Bahati (image, top left), who authored the bill. "Homosexuality is evil," he says. Bahati is a member of the secretive Washington, D.C. based organization known as The Family, which has helped to coordinate the war against LGBT people in Uganda.

Author and professor Jeff Sharlet, also featured in the VICE episode, exposed their work and their members – several of whom are U.S. Congressmen and Senators who take up residence at a luxury C Street boarding house – in his books, The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power, and C Street: The Fundamentalist Threat to American Democracy. Among them? U.S. Senator James Inhofe, who, VICE reports, has traveled to Uganda at least 135 times.

http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/davidbadash/_i_kill_them_hbo_s_vice_goes_to_uganda_to_see_what_american_anti_gay_christians_have_created

More than the horrifying reality and it is very disturbing as the woman journalists quickly got uncomfortable hearing them talk about lesbians need a rape. I thought it was bad real but they are simulating sex in front of children with the guy walking away with a bloody diaper or girls taught that being a lesbian will prevent them having a child -- taught there are 10 or so unique cancers that target only homosexuals.

THE U.S. CHRISTIAN RIGHT AND THE ATTACK
ON SEXUAL MINORITIES AND WOMEN IN AFRICA

U.S. conservatives’ exportation of the culture wars to Africa has been building for decades. Our dedicated researchers have been working to uncover and expose those in the U.S. who are using their dangerous rhetoric aggressive interventions to devastate the lives of so many overseas.

The battle for social justice isn’t just here at home, it’s global. Read on to see what the Right is doing!
- See more at: http://www.politicalresearch.org/Africa/#sthash.wWaW8bTv.dpuf

[Bluenorthwest]

191. Uganda-44% Catholic, 43% Anglican, Bishops of both support the anti gay laws and acts.

87% combined. What do the facts say? They say that the RCC and the Anglicans are doing the same shit the 'fundies' are doing. But some Americans like to cover that up. It's wrong to do so.

[JonLP24]

186. He's right

Just like any Right-wing (fill-in-the-blank) fundamentalist. I'd say more of a cult with leaders and cult followers.

[Jamastiene]

203. And he just told transgender people to stay in the wrong body for them.

That was a very assholish thing to say and do to an entire group of people who are already in agony and don't need to hear any more of that bullshit.

He talks out of both sides of his mouth, playing to whichever side he is talking to at that very moment. It is very two faced. I don't trust someone who changes their tone depending on which group they are talking to.

[Orsino]

208. Guess he's on board with SCOTUS today?

Or was this a cry for help?

[WinkyDink]

210. Are there REALLY DU'ERS who expect the Bishop of Rome NOT to be a believing Catholic? LOLOLOL!

OMG---Pope Francis supports the tenets of the Roman Catholic faith!

STOP THE G-D PRESSES!