House Dem: I'm not sure Bernie Sanders likes immigrants

[Cali_Democrat]

Rep. Luis Gutiérrez (D-Ill.) says he doesn’t know whether Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) likes immigrants because he doesn’t hear him advocating on their behalf.

In an interview that will air Tuesday with Larry King on ORA TV’s PolitiKING, Gutiérrez, who is backing Hillary Clinton for president, first failed to remember Sanders’s name before blasting him for not doing enough to push immigration reform.

“We’ve got the socialist, uh I can’t remember his name. Bernie Sanders,” Gutierrez said. “I don’t know if he likes immigrants because he doesn’t seem to talk about immigrants. But sooner or later, he’ll tell us. I hope he likes immigrants. I haven’t heard him say anything. He’s been kind of quiet and silent.

"So I hope that when he sees this program, he sees that there’s a lot of people waiting to hear from him.”

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/244696-house-dem-im-not-sure-bernie-sanders-likes-immigrants

[arcane1]

1. "Gutiérrez, who is backing Hillary Clinton for president"

Imagine that. Ignorant comments from a House Dem meant to make her opponent look bad. How convenient and surely 100% coincidental.

[Jumpin Jack Flash]

5. Considering Vermont is a border state to Canada..

I think Bernie would disagree with Gutiérrez.

#FeelTheBern, Gutiérrez.

[Zorra]

46. Gutiérrez even supported Rahm Emanuel instead of Chuy Garcia in the last mayoral

election in Chicago.

[KittyWampus]

54. so did most of the Democratic voters.

[Zorra]

68. Not the hispanic Democrats. Gutierrez sold them out. nt

[merrily]

114. NOT Hispanic progressive Democrats, which Gutierrez supposedly is.

This looks like another example of personal ambition trumping everything else. Please see Reply 113.

And it smacks of Clinton campaign identity tactics.

[hifiguy]

85. The omission of that little fact from the OP

is more than a little telling.

[JI7]

88. there was no omission.It's right there in the OP

[villager]

2. "I'm not sure of his name -- who is it again? -- but I sure am sure of his positions!"

"...the positions that are probably maybe held by -- who is it again?"

[Eleanors38]

17. Wasn't he from, umm, what state was it? What party? Uh... nt

[HereSince1628]

95. I'm not sure of his name...but, hey, he did get the talking point!

[merrily]

115. Funny that a member of the Progressive Caucus could not remember the name of the

guy who founded the Congressional Progressive Caucus and chaired it while Gutierrez was a member.


Bernie founded the Caucus in 1991, the year Bernie entered Congress, and chaired it for its first 8 years. He remain a member to this day--the only Senator who is a member.

Gutierrez entered Congress in 1993, when the Caucus was less than two years old. Either he did not attend many meetings of the Caucus or his claim not to know Sanders' name is as highly suspect as his endorsement of DLC Third Way pioneers Rahm and Hillary. Please see Reply 113.

[KamaAina]

3. "he doesn’t seem to talk about immigrants"

And there weren't any at his campaign launch, either. Oh, right. That was in Vermont, which is 96% white.

[Chan790]

39. VT...96% Caucasian and full of immigrants...

most of whom are...Caucasian. Mostly Canadian, the same as the majority of immigrants in the rest of New England and upstate NY.

Can we call this from Gutiérrez what it really is: an unfounded dog-whistle accusation of racism.

[cali]

71. actually Burlington has a sizable immigrant minority community

[Chan790]

78. Nevertheless...the majority of immigrants to CT, VT, NH, ME, MA, RI are Caucasian.

Whether there is a sizable immigrant minority community in Burlington, VT (and Hartford/New Haven/Springfield, CT/MA (This is a single uninterrupted metro-region) and Providence, RI and Boston, MA for that matter) doesn't change the the immigration demographics of New England.

[MADem]

99. Not MA.

Our immigrant community is VERY diverse...we have one of the largest populations of Cambodians outside Cambodia in Lowell which also has a substantial Laotian and African presence. And Latin American immigrants continue to arrive in huge numbers in the city of Boston and other communities. Central America is well represented in Lawrence, and Brazil on Cape Cod.

Immigration offsets the people who split because they're tired of winters here and who leave for jobs elsewhere.

[karynnj]

122. "whether there is" ??

Burlington accepts refugees from places like Somolia, Nepal, and Vietnam.

[sabrina 1]

135. What does that have to with where Bernie stands on immigration? Do you know where he stands btw?

Not to mention, Bernie is originally from NY.

[Chan790]

162. sabrina, all irrelevant to the point I was making...

which was that Gutierrez's comment was at face value racist dog-whistle which ignores the demographic reality of immigration in VT. (and the rest of New England) Facts are tricky things though.

A.) VT has a sizable year-to-year immigration of foreigners. (As does New England as a whole.)

B.) Because of the % of those immigrants that are Canadian (and to a lesser extent European), a majority (77% in 2013) of immigrants to VT are Caucasian...like the rest of New England (Even MA has a immigrant-gain from year to year that is majority Caucasian. CT and MA are the two most-diverse in terms of immigrants...and both are still over 50% Caucasian immigrants in any given year.) The higher % of non-Caucasian immigrants to the major urban centers of New England...specifically Burlington, VT in this case...does not alter the reality that the majority of immigrants to New England states are Caucasian which does nothing to alter the lily-white diversity of the state of VT...it does however lead non-contemplative partisans like Rep. Gutierrez to assume that New Englanders don't think about immigration policy because he doesn't see a lot of Latino faces.

C.) Saying that Sanders doesn't speak about immigration issues, an issue he has spoken on repeatedly, because the state he is from is overwhelmingly Caucasian is a lie that Rep. Gutierrez thinks he can pass unchallenged by incorrectly-conflating that "immigrant" means "Latino".

Which brings us back around to Rep. Gutierrez's comment which was in-fact racist dog-whistle...he's using "immigration" as a code-word addressed to Americans of Hispanic and Latino descent to convey 2 lies (and 3 falsehoods)...that Sanders doesn't care or speak about issues that affect minorities and specifically them (false)...and that Sanders doesn't speak about immigration (false) because he represents a state that has no substantial immigration. (Also false) I hope at this point that's clear because I really don't want to hand-hold anybody else through an explanation that the vast majority of immigrants to New England are not Latino but Caucasian and that immigrant population is not incidental but very-large.

[sabrina 1]

165. Thank you for explaining what you meant. I misunderstood obviously.

[PotatoChip]

177. Uh, no... There has been a large exodus of Caucasian immigrants OUT OF Northern NE.

Particularly French Canadians who are returning to Canada due to improved job prospects, and the better exchange rate there.

Furthermore, I am unaware of any European immigrants coming here. At least not in any notable numbers. This btw, is not just from my anecdotal perspective-- If there truly were many European immigrants coming here, I'm sure there would have been info somewhere, ie newspaper stories, ect... But I have yet to see any... Would you happen to have a link to support your claims?


Regarding immigrants of color, please note the following:

Taylor's decision to live outside Chicago makes him part of a shift tracked by the 2010 Census that surprised many demographers and urban planners: He is among hundreds of thousands of blacks who moved away from cities with long histories as centers of African-American life, including Chicago, Oakland, Washington, New Orleans and Detroit.

At the other end of the spectrum, in Maine, is the Lewiston-Auburn area, which saw a 476% increase in its black population from 2000 to 2010. Most of the newcomers are refugees from Somalia, says Phil Nadeau, deputy city administrator in Lewiston.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/census/2011-05-20-chicago-blacks-exodus_n.htm

This state is still very white, but I must say that it is nice to finally see some diversity, and I hope the trend continues. Hopefully, the demographic shift will include more than just refugees. I for one, would appreciate seeing more PoC.

Vermont is seeing similar changes.

And finally, while I know that this is straying somewhat from what you are saying, I think it's important to point out that Sanders does indeed speak to social issues that affect PoC. An example would be his strong opposition to 'the war on drugs' that is rife with racist policies that disproportionately ensnare PoC into the prison system. Michele Alexander, the author of 'The New Jim Crow' directly links the war on drugs to the disproportionately large mass incarceration of PoC. She is quite critical of the Clintons' role in creating this toxic situation.

Her words from an article she authored in The Nation back in 2010:

Democrats began competing with Republicans to prove that they could be even tougher on the dark-skinned pariahs. In President Bill Clinton's boastful words, "I can be nicked a lot, but no one can say I'm soft on crime." The facts bear him out. Clinton's "tough on crime" policies resulted in the largest increase in federal and state prison inmates of any president in American history. But Clinton was not satisfied with exploding prison populations. He and the "New Democrats" championed legislation banning drug felons from public housing (no matter how minor the offense) and denying them basic public benefits, including food stamps, for life. Discrimination in virtually every aspect of political, economic and social life is now perfectly legal, if you've been labeled a felon.

http://www.thenation.com/article/new-jim-crow

[merrily]

125. We don't know that no immigrants were at his launch. We know only what

was in the photo. Also, many immigrants are white. Besides Gutierrez is not very informed. Sanders HAS spoken about immigrants..

[smokey nj]

4. Classy.

[Robbins]

6. I see

they are getting desperate.

If bernie is nothing but fringe cnadiate why attack him like this.

[Eleanors38]

20. We have intimations about blacks, the blatant "Jewish connection," now immigrants.

As I have mentioned before, progressives will face their greatest opposition from Democratic Party bureaus, rather than from the GOP.

[villager]

28. It's amazing how fast it was that the counter-attacks became so sleazy...

or, maybe not amazing, after all...

[Robbins]

37. while we may not be happy with obama lately

I see parales to 2007/2008 to how clinton people are dealing with Bernie.who they claim has no chance to win.

if her poll numbers reflect reality why even acknowledge bernie's exsiatnce in race?

of course i say her numbers are soft and people have accepted line only she can win.Well what happens when they hear from candiate
who will tell you where he stands and they agree with him.

[arcane1]

42. Hence the preemptive strikes: discredit him BEFORE anyone else hears him

It won't work.

[Voice for Peace]

174. I loved the title of Will Pitt's article, taken from an actual Clinton memo I believe?

referring to Bernie: "objects in mirror closer than they appear"

[merrily]

121. Is it though? Haven't we seen this movie before?

[TBF]

103. Gay marriage should be next -

will just put this here and cut to the chase:


Sanders on Gay Marriage: ‘Time for Supreme Court to Catch Up to the American People’
Tuesday, April 28, 2015

WASHINGTON, April 28 – As the Supreme Court today took up cases on gay marriage, Sen. Bernie Sanders said gay Americans in all states deserve the right to wed.

“Of course all citizens deserve equal rights,” Sanders said. “It’s time for the Supreme Court to catch up to the American people and legalize gay marriage.”

Vermont was a pioneer in enacting laws giving gay couples legal recognition, beginning with a history-making statute in 2000 permitting civil unions and the nation’s first marriage law passed without a court order in 2009. Gay marriage is now legal in 36 states.

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/sanders-on-gay-marriage-time-for-supreme-court-to-catch-up-to-the-american-people

[Eleanors38]

170. The Rehm broadcast was a worthless freebie for the Right...

Attacks which call into question his liberalism will come from the Center Right, mainly Democrats.

[merrily]

118. ....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_citizenship_conspiracy_theories#Origins_of_the_claims

[Eleanors38]

171. The ability of the Far Right to work the MSM regarding harebrained charges is cemented:

The wacko idea eventually works its way up to a higher-up in the GOP who says, in effect: "I don't believe in conspiracy theories, but these rumors persist. If only the president will come clean with the American people, we could clear this all up."

The effect: The issue is mainstreamed (HeSaid/SheSaid), and the media (including the growing web presence of the FR) investigates, thereby keeping the theory alive.

[merrily]

172. Not many consider the Hillary campaign to be the far right. Or wacko.

[merrily]

117. Insurance? Habit?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_citizenship_conspiracy_theories#Origins_of_the_claims

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12777603

[Voice for Peace]

175. hmm

from the link:

"During the Democratic Party's 2008 presidential primaries, anonymous e-mails from supporters of Hillary Clinton surfaced that questioned Obama's citizenship in an attempt to revive Clinton's faltering primary election campaign. These and numerous other chain e-mails during the subsequent presidential election circulated false rumors about Obama's origin, religion and birth certificate. [25] [26]

[AtomicKitten]

7. I suspect her surrogates will be apologizing a lot, just like last time.

It's a cowardly way to run a campaign.

[madokie]

11. I'm sorry but Hillary doesn't have much

She is a come lately on most important issues so far
Don't get me wrong I'll happily vote for her in the general if she makes it that far but in the mean time Its Bernie all the way for me

[AtomicKitten]

25. Keith Olbermann commented on this in 2008.

He commented during the 2008 primary that Hillary was running against Obama as if she were the Republican and he the Democrat.

And she's doing it again.

[cali]

30. that's our Hillary, champion for... Hillary

[AtomicKitten]

34. Exactly.

[Robbins]

38. right on

Ted kennedy endorsed obama because he didn't like how the clinton campagin was going after obama.

[AtomicKitten]

76. Yes he did.

I don't think Teddy was too happy with the bullying from the Clintons that turned racist and ugly. Bill demanded that Teddy either endorse Hillary or remain silent, that Obama would have been serving them coffee.

I have to admit I am stunned it appears she is running the same campaign.

[merrily]

120. Yep. He had warned them, too. One more time and I'll endorse him.

But, they couldn't stop themselves. Or didn't want to. Then Bubba reproached Kennedy!

– Sen. Majority Leader Harry Reid, Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.), and a group of other senators who would back Hillary Clinton’s candidacy encouraged Obama to run for the White House as early as 2006. The concern over Clinton was that she would be a weak Democratic standard-bearer while Obama could energize the party. In late summer 2007, Schumer – using an Obama ally, Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.), as a back channel – pushed the candidate to “take a two-by-four to Hillary,” as the authors put it.

–In lobbying the late Sen. Ted Kennedy to endorse his wife, former President Bill Clinton angered the liberal icon by belittling Obama. Telling a friend about the conversation, Kennedy recalled Clinton had said “a few years ago, this guy would have been getting us coffee,” the authors paraphrase. A spokesman for the former president declined to comment on the claim.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0110/31302.html

Attacks on Politico and Game Change as sources in -3-2-

[goldent]

97. At this time, Sanders is her opponent.

That's how primaries work.

[merrily]

123. Racism, anti-Semitism and falsehoods about fellow Dems have not been part of every

Democratic Presidential primary.

[Fumesucker]

144. Only the ones Hillary has been running in

[merrily]

146. Which is why the false attacks on Bernie about minorities--of which he is one, btw--are

so ironic, as well as just plain nauseating.

[goldent]

163. Maybe not every primary (e.g. when we have a popular incumbent)

but I would say in the vast majority of majority of primaries where there is a real race, there will be some mud slinging. Sanders is a grown-up and can handle it.

[merrily]

168. No. Mudslinging--who had an affair, a breakdown, is very different from racism and anti-Semitism.

In Democratic Presidential primaries, I have observed that only in 2008 and now.

[cali]

126. fail. smearing is Clinton special sauce

[Scootaloo]

148. Is it a warm purple sauce? n/t

[Marr]

166. +1

[cali]

8. well that's an ugly bit of lying crap from a Clinton supporter.

Bernie has an excellent record on immigrant issue- something Gutierrez surely knows. And he has trouble remembering his name? Odd that, considering he served with him for well over a decade in the House and that Bernie co-founded the Progressive Caucus, which he is a member of. And then there's his calling Bernie "the socialist".

This has an eerie familiarity.

[bunnies]

12. And they're sinking this low already.

Its pathetic.

[smokey nj]

15. The thing about this type of attack is it makes the person making the attack look worse than the

target.

[bunnies]

19. Totally. I was just wondering if Luis Whatshisname realized...

how badly he embarrassed himself. I expect this shit from republicans.

[cali]

24. yeah, but Hillary has plausible deniability and this damn well does hurt bernie

It's typically Clinton style vile.

[winter is coming]

116. She has deniability. I wouldn't call it plausible. We've seen this movie before. n/t

[cali]

18. it's cowardly and disgusting. Hillary will either ignore him or continue to say

bland nice things regarding him and her surrogates will launch vile lying attacks.

[bunnies]

21. Yep. Here comes the new campaign same as the old campaign. nt

[Rex]

9. I am beginning to understand just how clueless some are about Bernie Sanders.

And just how rotten they are as people in general. Why doesn't Rep What's His Name CALL Bernie Sanders and talk to him? Probably not that hard to do since they work in the same building.

[cali]

27. He's not clueless at all. He's doing Hillary's dirty work

He served with Bernie for 17 years. He is a member of the caucus Bernie co-founded,and has been for years.

[WillyT]

33. + 1,000,000,000 What You Said !!!

[840high]

94. ...^ that

[TBF]

102. Willful cluelessness in this case ... nt

[Rex]

109. Totally. nt

nt

[merrily]

124. Not only the same building. Please see Reply 115.

Link http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026817096#post115

[Prism]

10. Race-baiting and red-baiting all in the same place

Of course Gutierrez knows who Sanders is. They're in the same friggin caucus!

Hoo boy.

At least the race-baiting this time around is coming more from the outer edges of the campaign instead of smack dab in the middle of it.

Not that I was ever going to vote for Clinton in the primary, but this has already gotten too gross.

[Fumesucker]

13. I'm sure the OP is aware this reflects terrribly on Hillary's camp....

[LondonReign2]

66. We have excessive evidence, compiled over many many posts

that the OP isn't aware of much of anything at all.

[Art_from_Ark]

70. Yup

[Rex]

23. Can you believe this shit!?

I expect it from the GOP...sad when it is from our side. More like pathetic and revealing imo.

[cali]

29. of course I can believe it. her last campaign did the same unethical, ugly crap

[Rex]

145. I skipped out on the primaries in 2008, just decided not to come here.

However I ain't doing that this time and going to call out the bullshit when I see it.

[randys1]

101. Disappointing the hell out of me...

Some say they will have to be drunk to vote for Hillary if it comes down to that, given they have to because of the alternative.

I cant drink, I am allergic, every-time I drink I break out in handcuffs, so I better not have to drop acid to vote for her.

But incidents like this make me wonder if I need to find my dealer

[merrily]

137. Sure. We've seen it all before.

Lies, race-baiting, even citizenship issues. I rather suspect Rehm, who, according to her wiki, is big admirer of both Clintons, and Gutierrez are only the beginning.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026817096#post132

[Rex]

139. It is hard to understand how Gutierrez forgot who Bernie Sanders is.

Because he did not, he took a cheapshot and it backfired.

I've known DR was trending right now for years and years, sad to see her do what she did. An honest apology would have maybe made it less transparent - yet she couldn't even do that!

[merrily]

142. Studies have been done on misinformation.

LOL, my guess is that politicians and ad agencies commissioned a few of them, but I'm only guessing about that.

Anyway, one of them showed that the first story people learn is all that matters. A later correction or retraction does not help. To the contrary, it only makes the first impression stronger than if no correction or retraction had occurred.*

Another study shows that people believe most what reinforces their already existing beliefs. So, appealing to bigots is easy, if you are willing to stoop that low in a Presidential campaign.

And people thought Republicans revealing that Muskie's wife had once had a breakdown was low.



During a recession, notice how many times we get an unemployment report that doesn't seem so bad. However, a few days later, a corrected one is released with worse numbers. The correction never has improved numbers, though, at least not that I've ever noticed.

[beam me up scottie]

77. Thanks for calling it like it is, Prism.

[cali]

14. bernie's record on immigration

http://immigrationimpact.com/2015/05/01/bernie-sanders-immigration-policy-track-record/

And gee, Luis, you loyally lying shill, look where Bernie will be on Friday- as will Hillary

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2015/06/09/bernie-sanders-to-address-latino-politicians-group-naleo/

[sabrina 1]

16. So wait, he doesn't know who he is, but he slips in that he is a 'socialist' and then that 'he

doesn't like immigrants'.

Two intended negative talking points in one shot.

Too bad he's so out of it that he missed Bernie's interview with Diane Rehm where he was asked about Immigration and answered beautifully stating his views.

Maybe we should all sent this out of touch, except on dirty politics tactics, a copy of Bernie's position on immigration.

What a blatant and not even clever display.

[Eleanors38]

22. Why do you have to be so clinically logical about it.

[sabrina 1]

57. Lol, I do have to say that while I'm not too familiar with HIM, I have seen far more clever

attempts to smear a politician. This one was not even at the level of a five year old. 'I don't know him, but you mean 'THE SOCIALIST'!!

Wait, it's more like 'Bush the Lesser' level! You can tell he was instructed as to HOW to smear 'what you see in your rear view mirror' but he did it poorly.

[Rex]

26. This is just the beginning, but silver lining

the ugly personalities that have hidden away so long in the DLC\DNC will come out in full force. No more hiding behind the curtain. And we will call them out each and every time they do.

[arcane1]

31. "And we will call them out each and every time they do." Damn right we will!

Getting good candidates in office is just the first half of the battle. The other half is getting rid of the bad ones

[sabrina 1]

129. Yes, compared to Bernie who is out every day just talking about ISSUES, while these little worms

can't talk about issues because the people do not agree with them on the issues, are stomping their little feet and throwing temper tantrums, they only emphasize how far above them in every way, he is.

[merrily]

127. Gutierrez has zero cred on this.

Please see Replies 113, 115 and this video of Sanders speaking on immigration reform. http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017271517

Link to Reply 113 http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026817096#post113

Link to Reply 115 http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026817096#post115

BUSTED!

We've seen this play out before:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_citizenship_conspiracy_theories#Origins_of_the_claims

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026817096#post120

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12777603

Shameful.

[NightWatcher]

32. "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."

Enemies of Bernie have moved from laughing to fighting, I see.

[djean111]

35. And so the smears begin. Not like it is out of character or unexpected, though.

[merrily]

128. I thought they began with the dual citizenship claim, reminiscent of 2008.

Gutierrez has zero cred on this.

See http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026817096#post127 and items linked in that post.

[djean111]

153. You are right, I meant in general. I think conflating Bernie with that picture of

the two white guys holding up the black guy as a hunting trophy may have been the start, though.
Eventually, that will be a club I will have no interest in joining, I think.

[merrily]

156. Gee, I missed that photo.

Sounds awful.

[djean111]

160. Oh, it was used when a blogger was upset because of all the white faces at Bernie's

campaign launch. In Vermont. Evidently Bernie was supposed to bring in black people to prove he is not racist.
Conflating Bernie with that picture was a gratuitously nasty calculated thing to do. All that matters is that it is out there. In fact, I bet if Bernie supporters did not keep bringing up the smears, they would be brought up and repeated and repeated in that passive-aggressive "oh, yeah, too bad someone went there" way, just to keep it going. Some days we carry their water for them. Make that slops-bucket.

[merrily]

169. Thanks. Yuck.

[Solly Mack]

36. He hasn't said jackshit about my dachshund either. Guess that means he hate Germans.

Last edited Thu Jun 11, 2015, 04:03 PM - Edit history (1)

And as none of the other candidates have either - hmmmmmm.

I am well aware that none of the Democratic candidates hate Germans. And I'm sure they all love my mini dachshund.

I was having a momentary loss of a grip.

[truebrit71]

40. What a jag off...

'We've got the socialist, uh, what's his name'.....What a Grade-A jag off...

[cali]

41. just another charming Hillary surrogate smearing away.

[truebrit71]

43. Yup.

Despicable.

[sabrina 1]

130. I know, right? A child would have acted that out better. He's a very bad actor, they need to get

someone who is at least as capable as a six year old to this kind of dirty work.

[Scootaloo]

149. A chld wouldn't have been pillaging the liquor cabinet before an interview

I dunno, maybe Gutierrez is always like that, but he came off as fairly sloshed.

[Art_from_Ark]

154. Maybe he learned that from Boehner?

"I have to get really sloshed before I spout a lot of garbage"

[cascadiance]

44. I'm not sure whether Hillary Clinton likes H-2B slave labor. She likes H-1B slave labor!

Bernie is clear in his reasons for not supporting these programs, and that he does want REAL immigration reform, not a crappy bill that is "clean" and focuses on helping real immigration to happen that is needed here. Hillary Clinton would seem to want this bill because it has the H-1B expansion that her corporate lobbyists want. If this guy can make up what he thinks Bernie is thinking, I think there are those of us who can "conclude" why Hillary Clinton wanted the immigration bill to pass too!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/05/25/this-is-a-massive-effort-to-attract-cheap-labor-why-sen-bernie-sanders-is-skeptical-of-guest-workers/

Clinton's position on expanding H-1B program...

[quickesst]

83. H-1B workers...

...are going through what blue collar workers have already experienced. Doesn't feel too great when the shoe is on the other foot. I know, its about jobs, just like it was for me. The only differences are country, legality, and that I won't accuse most white collar democrats of being racist for wanting to deny "poor Brown people the opportunity to make a better life for their families." I was, and I've been wondering where those good liberals were until I realized they were still here. They're just looking at things from my side of the tracks. But, life goes on. We're content with our small retirement,and our part-time jobs. Of course the 3 bedroom mobile home is not as nice as the 3 bedroom house I had to give up, and neither are the vehicles, the savings account, blah, blah, blah, but it's comfortable as long as we can avoid the tornadoes here in Jindal World. Best of luck to all. You'll do just fine.

[cascadiance]

87. That is why I also noted H-2B workers too...

... and Bernie mentions them in the link I pointed to. Here's another link to show how these guest workers who aren't the white collar tech jobs that are usually associated with H-1B are screwed just as much (along with American workers they displace) and perhaps these foreign workers are screwed even moreso than H-1B workers. Read how a bunch of them sued for how they were treated after they were hired to do cleanup after hurricane Katrina.

http://www.guestworkeralliance.org/tag/h2b-regulations/

http://www.southernstudies.org/2007/08/modern-day-slavery-on-the-gulf-coast.html

http://www.thenation.com/blog/198665/these-workers-came-overseas-help-rebuild-after-hurricane-katrina-and-were-treated-prison



All of these programs are such that we need to join forces and fight together. The culprits behind them are the same crooks that want to screw all of us so that they can take more for themselves. And they have so many of our politicians bought and paid for now too!

[quickesst]

105. I get that...

...but what I was pointing out was not hb2 workers with work visas, but those who, and at the risk another accusation, come here without the benefit of visas or US citizenship. Most work under the table and avoid taxes plus all the other government requirements. One reason they work for far less, and another good reason a path to full citizenship needs to happen. My experience with this happened mostly in the early years of 2000. The hue and cry about the h1b issue was not there, or just not discussed a lot. The atmosphere was different then. Anyway, things worked out, and I intended no harm. Just a few sad memory triggers. As our favorite Vulcan would say, I hope for everyone to "Live long and prosper"

[cascadiance]

108. Oh no. I know you have the bright idea too...

Was just noting how the PTB are using these kind of programs to escape being nailed for hiring people in the circumstances you describe illegally, which they could be prosecuted for, but we weren't enforcing the laws there, and more apt to just enforce laws on those being exploited by them. These "guest worker" programs mainly allow the same sort of exploitation to happen, but let these employers get away with doing it legally.

We'd all be better off if we did away with these guest worker programs, or minimized them to the levels that they were originally intended for in providing workers for the kind of work that no one would do, or weren't able to do (with certain kind of skill set requirements), and not being used just to exploit cheap labor, as Bernie has expressed concern about.

We should have good, decent immigration bills that focus on helping get people that have been brought here as undocumented workers without guest worker "protection" and offer them the paths to citizenship, etc. so that everyone can get what they want work wise and we can have higher salaries again, and no one is getting exploited. If people want to live here and become citizens, find a way to facilitate that, and if they want to move back home, and find a way to restore their farm business viabilities that they might have lost, find some way to work internationally to help with that, by renegotiating these "trade deals" that facilitate "bottoms" to race to, and by getting rid of ag subsidies that let rich ag companies "dump" products overseas and push many people to come here illegally or to be a part of these "guest worker" programs at low pay.

I think we're on the same page, and in today's world, I think there are a lot more of us affected onh the "same page" too, which is one more reason for all of us to work together for solutions that work for all of us, and hopefully getting back what has been taken from so many of us by the very rich.

[JI7]

45. gutierrez is Hillary's attack dog. Sanders needs to get someone to do the same

You already had an O'malley supporter go after sanders.

He needs someone to respond and go after others.

[cali]

48. no. just know. but he could come out with a statement in response and also deplore

this kind of campaigning

[JI7]

53. it won't do much. he needs someone like axelrod and plouffe

[LondonReign2]

67. That is one piss poor attack dog, IMO

[merrily]

131. Well, one of her attack dogs, anyway. If Sanders stooped that low, I'd be disappointed.

I MIGHT still vote for him in the primary if he went to race-baiting and lies, but I might now. Anti-Semitic insinuations about his citizenship? Lies about whether he spoke about immigration? I'd hate to see Sanders engage in that low a variety of Presidential campaigning.

Please see this post and material linked within this post. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026817096#post132

I think Rehm was probably on the same page as Gutierrez, or a very similar one.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

[Scootaloo]

152. Attack dog, huh?

So ferocious.

[Oneironaut]

47. So, "Bernie Sanders is a racist" is the new anti-Bernie tactic?

I hope not, and I hope other candidates aren't entertaining such garbage.

I'm not a Bernie supporter, btw.

[MohRokTah]

49. Wow, this is good for goose good for gander treatment.

Bernie wants to hear what Clinton has to say about the TPP and Gutiérrez wants to hear what Bernie has to say about immigrants.

[arcane1]

51. Big difference: Sanders actually discusses immigration n/t

[MohRokTah]

52. I haven't heard him at all about immigration

[arcane1]

55. Then it never happened?

I could've sworn he discussed the issue as recently as that NPR interview. Maybe people didn't hear that

He's due to speak at the same Latino conference where Clinton will be speaking. Many people likely won't hear that either.

[MohRokTah]

61. I'm just not as concerned about it.

Apparently according to Cali, he talked about it today. Somebody needs to send this info to Gutierrez.

[cali]

79. He's a lying little toady. he damn well knows

Bernie's positions

[MohRokTah]

80. You should probablystep back and take a few minutes to notice some beauty around you.

Politics can really get to a person. I know, I've been there.

Giving Guterriez any of your attention over this is precisely what he wants.

[cali]

81. you should follow your own advice, hon

[MohRokTah]

82. I'm certainly not worked up over this.

You've been giving me a lot of chuckles, though.

[merrily]

134. Let's not pretend facts have anything to do with this shit.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026817096#post132

[cali]

58. funny. he spoke about it extensively just yesterday. He's going to Vegas on Friday

to address a convention of Hispanic Democratic politicians, and he's spoken of it on the campaign trail

[MohRokTah]

59. COOL!

Send links to Congressman Gutierrez!

That'll answer his questions!

[cali]

63. why bother? he knows he's lying. he served with Bernie for 17 years.

He's a member of the Progressive Caucus which Bernie co-founded. Bernie has an excellent record on immigration issues and either Gutierrez is a total idiot, suffering from memory loss, or he's lying.

[MohRokTah]

65. .

[LondonReign2]

69. .

[Fumesucker]

72. Nice selfie

[sabrina 1]

133. Lol, good one!

[cali]

73. lol. that's the best you can do. wait, I already knew that. you just don't do substantive

or factual.

xxx ooo

[Rex]

147. It is amazing how many chances some get around here.

It's like some kind of Pretzel logic.

[Major Nikon]

74. Results...

On Thu Jun 11, 2015, 04:30 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6817625

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Rude, nasty, trolling.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Jun 11, 2015, 04:44 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This image does not contribute to the discussion and helps make DU suck.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Rude.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: de minimis
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: ?
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: As a Hillary supporter I find MRT embarassing.

[MohRokTah]

75. .

Oh well.

I'm not buying what juror #7 is selling.

[frylock]

179. Explanation: As a Hillary supporter I find MRT embarassing

embarrassing

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

60. Oh bullshit! Did he personally call you to talk about this? See, if some jagoff says it didn't

happen, regardless of the facts, recorded votes, transcripts, recorded interviews, stated positions, etc, etc, etc. It just probably didn't happen. Shit, it's not like Luis Gutierrez has ever met him or worked with him before. He only vaguely recalls his nickname "The Socialist".

[merrily]

140. Google much?

[Scootaloo]

150. It's amazing how completely unaware you are of the candidate you openly despise

How did you form your opinions, if you consistently demonstrate you know absolutly nothing?

[MohRokTah]

155. I know a lot more than the vast majority of DU.

That's pretty obvious from the hyperbole and drama in most posts.

[Scootaloo]

157. Clearly you don't.

[MohRokTah]

158. You prove my point.

[Scootaloo]

159. If saying that makes you feel better, by all means

But pretty clearly, you don't know much about the subject at hand, yet insist on talking shit.

Maybe learn some stuff, then talk.

[MohRokTah]

161. .

[frylock]

178. that's because you don't listen

[jeff47]

64. Oh bullshit.

Sanders talked about immigration yesterday. If that wasn't good enough, Sanders has a long record on immigration - and that record is more favorable to immigrants than Clinton's record. And if that wasn't good enough, Sanders is the child of immigrants. And if that wasn't good enough, Gutiérrez and Sanders were in the same fucking progressive caucus for 17 years.

Clinton has repeatedly refused to take a position on the TPP.

Yeah, totally similar. 100% the same. Just like apples and nuclear weapons.

[merrily]

132. No, it's only the same kind of bs we've seen before.

Please see this post and items linked within this post, including a link to a 28 minute speech Bernie made on immigration reform 2 years ago.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026817096#post127

See also http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026817096#post119

[JI7]

50. Gutierrez is the Geraldine Ferraro for 2016 elections

Sanders needs someone like axelrod

[Cali_Democrat]

62. Oh wow....that's a pretty good comparison

I totally forgot about her comments about Obama in 2008.

[Jefferson23]

56. More ugly will come like this. Considering the level of lies and ugly presented here, they

must feel Sanders is a threat. They already managed to get the other threat to agree not to run,
that wasn't enough..evidently.

[guillaumeb]

84. Is this the same Luis Gutierrez who was Rahm Emmanuel's campaign chairman?

Gutierrez USED TO BE known as a progressive legislator.

[merrily]

136. ....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026817096#post132

Please see all the items linked within that post on this thread, and, in connection with Rahm, esp. Reply 113 on this thread.

[SusanCalvin]

86. Nice Democrat.

Not. What a lovely remark from a member of one's own party. Unless he's saying Bernie's not, which is what it sounds like. Hey, guy, Bernie's running in the Democratic primary, he's a Democrat.

[JanMichael]

89. I also heard that Sanders has not denounced Vivisectionists.

So obviously he support the live cutting of animals in half.

He has also no spoken directly to the needs of <insert anything here>. That makes him a dickhead.

[CrawlingChaos]

107. yes indeed, ludicrous desperation

It reminds me of an character assassination piece I once saw on Ralph Nader (whatever you may think of Nader). The author wrote that Nader had never owned a dog and it isn't even known if he likes dogs.

We are quickly descending to that level of silliness.

[nadinbrzezinski]

90. ah surrogate talking time

Bernie, the son of an immigrant, does not like immigrants.

I got no candidate, but this 2008 all over again.

[lumberjack_jeff]

92. "Excuse me! That's *Vice President* Lickspittle Toady!"

And Sanders should be coy about illegal immigrants and gun control.

People know he's about inequality. That is good enough for a broad coalition.

[Enthusiast]

93. Completely unrecommended.

[magical thyme]

96. Meet the new Hillary. Just like the old Hillary.

Desperate much?

[cali]

98. hasn't changed a thing

[magical thyme]

100. yes it did. I just got paid today. Motivated me to make another donation

to Bernie.

Funny how that works.

[Scootaloo]

151. Same 2008 campaign, same 2008 supporters, same 2008 results.

[99Forever]

104. I'll certainly remember Rep. Luis Gutiérrez (DINO-Ill.) name....

... when President Sanders is being sworn in.

Well, probably not. In fact I doubt I'll remember that asinine chump's name after dinner tonite.

[CTBlueboy]

106. Kinda patheic

The Establishment's strategy use: HRC surrogate/supporter to make Bernie as white as possible.

So the gloves are off ? I hope corporate dems really dont want to go down this path because it will be an ugly campaign season

[Bluenorthwest]

111. Bernie Sanders is the son of an immigrant, Luis Gutiérrez is not. So what's that about?

Luis Gutiérrez's parents are both from Puerto Rico and thus not immigrants but both natural born Americans. Bernie Sander's father however immigrated from Poland to the United States where he became a naturalized citizen.
Ironic and actually ironic is a racist flavored way.

[TBF]

112. Don't go bringing facts into this ... nt

[merrily]

113. Like Rahm, Gutierrez has long aspired to be Mayor of Chicago. What is his best path to that office?

What was Rahm's? (Raise your hand if you think a Daley's replacing Chief of Staff Rahm before Rahm became mayor of Daley-controlled Chicago was sheer coincidence.)

Let's face it. Most Democratic politicians cannot afford to, and therefore will not, piss off the PTB of the Democratic Party, which is backing Hillary.

Gutiérrez' name has often been mentioned as a potential candidate for Mayor of Chicago. In 2006 he explored running for mayor of Chicago against incumbent Richard M. Daley, but announced in November that he would remain in Congress.

After Daley declared his retirement in 2011, Gutiérrez' name was once again floated as a potential mayoral candidate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Guti%C3%A9rrez

[karynnj]

119. Bernie ' s town is a refugee resettlement town

In spite of being insufficiently diverse for some Clinton fans. Not to mention Bernie ' s dad was an immigrant from Poland. This is obnoxious and why I lost respect for people like Bob Kerrey in 2008.

[merrily]

138. Yup. 96% white, versus Chappequa, which is almost 92% white.

The racial makeup of the CDP was 91.80% White, 0.94% African American, 0.03% Native American, 5.62% Asian, 0.02% Pacific Islander, 0.52% from other races, and 1.07% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 2.55% of the population. 14.3% were of Italian, 11.4% Russian, 10.6% Irish, 7.1% United States or American, 6.0% English and 5.7% German ancestry according to Census 2000. 92.4% spoke English, 3.6% Spanish and 1.0% Italian as their first language.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chappaqua,_New_York#Demographics

Politicians. amirite?

[karynnj]

141. Burlington and some surrounding towns volunteered

To be refugee resettlement places and have welcomed refugees since 1989. So, in this largely white town, there are refugees. Note the mayor in 1989 was Sanders until April. He almost certainly started this.

An elementary school in Burlington has a total of 41 languages that are the first language of its students. The school system has far more diversity than the census numbers would suggest.

[merrily]

143. Good info, karynnj, now karynvt. Thanks.

[davidpdx]

164. Gutierrez is starting to sound like (P)rick Parry

"uh I can't remember..."

[Marr]

167. Sanders' best PR is going to come from Hillary supporters, I think. /nt

[Voice for Peace]

173. ... and oh yeah, we also have the capitalist, I forget her name, oh yes that's right

Hillary something

[deutsey]

176. He forgot the "some people say" part

FOX folks swear by it.