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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums'Black' NAACP leader outed as white woman
SPOKANE, WA (KREM) -- A recent investigation into racially charged threats made toward the president of the NAACP chapter in Spokane have raised questions beyond who made the threats.
On Thursday, Rachel Dolezal's parents claimed she had been deceiving people.
Ruthanne and Larry Dolezal said Thursday that they want people to know the truth including that their daughter is Caucasian. The Dolezals sat down with 11Alive's Spokane sister station, KREM 2 News and said their daughter is specifically German and Czech.
Rachel Dolezal was born in Troy, Montana. Ruthanne and Larry Dolezal said their daughter has always identified with the African American culture and had black siblings who were adopted. They said she went to school in Mississippi and was part of a primarily African American community.
The Dolezals said Rachel married and later divorced a black man. They said after the divorce in 2004 Rachel began identifying differently. She started claiming to be partially African American and the daughter of bi-racial parents. They said they have noticed her change in physical appearance but do not know how she did so.
"Rachel has wanted to be somebody she's not. She's chosen not to just be herself but to represent herself as an African American woman or a biracial person. And that's simply not true," said Ruthanne Dolezal.
The Dolezals said they do not have a problem with Rachel advocating for a civil rights group for African Americans, rather that she is being deceptive about it.
Rachel's parents said she distanced herself from them and has not talked to them recently.
The same day her parents were interviewed, Rachel Dolezal told KREM 2 News that she does not speak to her parents because of an on-going legal issue.
"There is a lawsuit that's been going on for almost a year, once I supported my sister and allegations against her older brother," said Rachel.
Rachel said she does not consider her biological parents her real parents. She said she is still focused on the threats she received in the mail.
http://www.11alive.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/06/11/spokane-naacp-president-questions/71101474/
(pictures of Rachel Dolezal and her history with the NAACP at the link)
I saw this story on Worldstar and just had to see if it was legit. Yikes. What do you all think cause this is kind of bizarre to me. Is she truly bi-racial or is she lying about her race?
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)But she could always get genetic testing if she wanted to prove they weren't her 'real' bio parents, and claim she too was adopted.
(ETA, and, btw, somebody should introduce her to Chris Rock. She might be the white person he's always joked about, who would trade being white to be black.)
NOLALady
(4,003 posts)one of her parents have fairly recent African DNA that they did not know about. I have met quite a few white people who were not aware of their Black ancestry until they began to research their genealogy.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)was gold. It was so hilarious how the Corn Cobb was raging on, then he found out at the end that he's part Black. Then Trisha tried to give him a hi-five, and she called him "bro". I bet he was sick to his stomach.
Yupster
(14,308 posts)That was a bit before George Washington though so African - American would be a stretch.
Boudica the Lyoness
(2,899 posts)She found by being in 'black face' she had more opportunities and she also fabricated stories of hate crimes for job security.
DetlefK
(16,423 posts)My "black" husband as well as quite a few family members have green or blue eyes.
Our schools were segregated when I attended. Probably half of my black classmates had blue, green or amber eyes. At the time, I didn't think it was unusual.
TexasProgresive
(12,148 posts)green eyes were considered as evidence of possible racial mixing.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)bigwillq
(72,790 posts)Bosonic
(3,746 posts)LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)haele
(12,581 posts)Nor in the Middle East. Over the years, I've met many a person that was identified as "black", or who's family was black, who was as light or lighter than she is. There were pamphlets written in the 19th century for government and police officials on how to detect when a black person (i.e., a person who was at least 1/64th African) was trying to "pass", and just from the pictures presented, she could have been tagged as "not white", no matter what she tried to say she was.
They would look at the shape of her eyes, nose, and face, the texture of her hair, the color of her eyes, and skin tone. With today's product, hair texture is a bit difficult to tell from her pictures, but I suspect that the early 19th century slave catchers in Georgia and Louisiana wouldn't care, she's hit at least 5 of the 6 traits I've described, and they'd be asking around for anyone who could make a fuss for her as being white if they had a potential client lined up for the "recovery" of a light-skinned slave of her age.
This often made it difficult for some 19th century Irish and similar immigrants from the southwest of Britain, because depending on how many of their ancestors went fishing down in the Canaries or interacted with the Spanish Moors (which many did), many families have carried a broad "african" nose and grey-green eyes or a clear, olive-based skin tone common to North Africa and some of the Berbers. There are a few incidences of non-english speaking Europeans taken for run-away slaves and sold to plantations in the deep south up until almost the Civil War. If a slave with (to put it politely) more caucasian that african ancestry made it far enough north, it was much easier to pull off being a white man or woman who's family came from Ireland or Great Britain (or from any of the other Southern European countries) and start a new life.
Actually, I think that's what happened with a 2x Great Grandfather of mine who started off as a maitre de at an upscale hotel; when doing the family tree, he suddenly popped up as a 25/26 year old in Chicago around 1859, and no other record could be found of him or anyone else with a similar name around his age anywhere else.
The letters from my 2x Great Grandmother to her swooning friends described as very handsome man with a slight drawl; an oval face with flaring nostrils, almost six foot, piercing green-grey eyes, clear olive skin, and thick, curling light brown hair. Hmmm...of course, that side of my family would never consider he might have been anything but a handsome, penniless immigrant with exquisite manners who made a good living for himself. Except my own father, a history teacher, who often made his grey-eyed, curly haired mother very upset with some of his suggestions when he got annoyed at some of her John Bircher antics.
Anyway, back to the original story.
I suspect that since she apparently could self-identify and perhaps "passed" as black in her youth, there might have been some African or African American in her family anyway, if part of her family tree was either from Southwestern Britain or Ireland, or had been in the US since the early 1800s. I also suspect that if her parents are making a big deal about it, they're not wanting their friends to know that there might be enough AA in their family that in some places, they'd also be considered black, and lose some things they feel entitled to in a social - or even legal - setting.
Honestly, if the lady has a job as a regional head of the NAACP, she's made something of herself, and there's nothing any parent should be ashamed about.
Haele
cali
(114,904 posts)and her parents adopted 4 AA kids. I doubt they're concerned about people thinking they're part black. she's lied about so much it's dizzying.
shanti
(21,670 posts)it was only about 2007 that she started doing that - after her divorce.
snagglepuss
(12,704 posts)Here's one
Nay
(12,051 posts)counting all the actors and actresses on TV.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)you can see him in the NBA Finals on Sunday night.
&w=350&h=254
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)An insular group of family, friends and acquaintances can certainly reduce one's world to a rather myopic perspective...
Hope you can start getting out more and meet new people!
Beacool
(30,244 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,681 posts)And my dad had a very dark complexion - VERY dark - think Idris Elba -
But his eyes never changed when he became a toddler.
They were dark blue! Purty eyes!
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)It's uncommon but hardly impossible.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)All things are possible in the mix.
Here is famed DJ Donnie Simpson
Number23
(24,544 posts)when describing a "black" AMERICAN woman.
Here's a few more black people with green and even blue eyes.
Erykah Badu
Jessie Williams - ?w=630&h=378
Michael Ealy -
pampango
(24,692 posts)looking for jobs.
This would seem to be an issue for the Spokane NAACP to deal with. If they want her out they can do so. If they want her to stay that is fine, too. No one seems to contend that she has ever worked as a 'white spy' to undermine minority positions on issues.
lovemydog
(11,833 posts)I'm sick of it!
Baclava
(12,047 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)No doubt about it.
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)Brickbat
(19,339 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)Brickbat
(19,339 posts)I was very young when I saw it, and it has stuck with me a long time.
ETA: The party bus!
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)I feel badly for her.
CTyankee
(63,768 posts)sad, a real and public melt down...
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Doesn't void your point about needing help, which is likely correct. But I wouldn't call a 37 year old a young woman. She's a full grown adult.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)Yupster
(14,308 posts)keeps the sun from messing up her skin as much as it would if she were white.
Makes her look younger. Thanks African DNA.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)kwassa
(23,340 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)There is a line between self delusion and giving someone the room to self identify. I am not sure exactly where that line is.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Looks like the hate mail that was being received at the NAACP PO box, was put there by her- I guess she figured she had to be a "victim" of hate crimes to keep her charade going on....
Also this week, Spokane police files on Dolezals report that she received a hate mail package and other mailings in late February and March were released. Police records say the initial package Dolezal reported receiving did not bear a date stamp or bar code, which Dolezal herself told police when she reported it. Investigators interviewed postal workers, who said it was either very unlikely or impossible that the package could have been processed through the post office, and that the only other alternative was that it had been put there by someone with a key.
snip-
Dolezal said she received a key to the post office box when she became president of the NAACP earlier this year. Asked about the possibility that she had put the package there herself, she asked, What mother would terrorize her own children?
also
Neumaier said he was suspicious of several incidents Dolezal reported in Coeur dAlene, including her discovery of a swastika on the door of the Human Rights Education Institute when the organizations security camera was mysteriously turned off.
None of them passed the smell test, he said.
He said that after Dolezal left the institute and he saw her gaining prominence in Spokane becoming head of the NAACP, chairman of the police ombudsman oversight commission, teaching at Eastern Washington University, and speaking frequently in public on racism and justice issues that he became worried that there might be blowback for the institute for not doing a better job of vetting her.
Bunch from the Seattle Times
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/northwest/questions-raised-about-race-of-spokane-naacp-head/
Beacool
(30,244 posts)She feels such affinity to AA that she even decided to become one.
Catherine Vincent
(34,485 posts)A white woman passing for black. Now I've seen it all.
Ace Rothstein
(3,099 posts)Reporter: Are you African American?
Dolezal: (with confused look on her face) I don't understand the question.
eShirl
(18,466 posts)I hope I'm not being too ignorant
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)... self identification is important. I am not sure exactly how far that goes, however, or where the line is between allowing someone the room to do that and concluding they are simply self deluding.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)we self-identify our race. We don't go around checking people's racial identification - anymore.
This strikes me as a revival of the old Southern psychosis of 'passing.'
I find the question rude, insulting and racist. But the NAACP will I'm sure make a determination now that this 'question' is asked.
mythology
(9,527 posts)By presenting herself as black, she's effectively appropriating a past and oppression she hasn't faced.
But then again there are those people who voluntarily have limbs removed because they have apotemnophilia.
DustyJoe
(849 posts)Would that argument disallow Jenner to identify as a female when he hasn't lived or suffered past opressions of women but is now appropriating that history ? A fine line indeed.
Response to DustyJoe (Reply #35)
Erich Bloodaxe BSN This message was self-deleted by its author.
Orrex
(63,084 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)Orrex
(63,084 posts)Or maybe that I don't have a leg to stand on.
I don't find it humerus, myself.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)OriginalGeek
(12,132 posts)Nay
(12,051 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)I love DUers with a sense of humor!
Response to mythology (Reply #30)
Erich Bloodaxe BSN This message was self-deleted by its author.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)She's a nutcase.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)Nay
(12,051 posts)and wouldn't care if she came out as white), but she stepped over the nutcase line when she started the hate mail and Nazi stickers stuff against herself. Her parents were correct to call her out when she went too far, and it looks like the police were on to her pretty early. Time for her to re-tether herself to reality.
Yupster
(14,308 posts)into a minority scholarship or job application?
Nay
(12,051 posts)did before she got her present position.
One_Life_To_Give
(6,036 posts)If you live and present yourself as a minority over a sufficient period of time then sure. Race/Gender really should not matter IMO. This should be about what is your lived experience. Somehow I don't think there will be a flood of white Men running out to adopt AA identities so they can retake the fire dept exams. And of those that tried how many would make it 1 or 2 years?
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)blackface and coopting someone else's struggle. That just seems off to me.
valerief
(53,235 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)dawg
(10,607 posts)With very little genetic variation due to a population bottleneck around 70,000 years ago.
Our concept of race is laughably absurd.
Johonny
(20,675 posts)Juicy_Bellows
(2,427 posts)Our concept of race is absurd but society seems to like it that way. Everyone gets placed in their respective boxes as deemed by society as a whole. I wish that weren't true but I don't see it changing any time soon.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)They are both white. This story has trended on Twitter and the range of responses is interesting.
I think what she did was wrong, I think there is something off about pretending to be from a group whose oppression you do not truly share in.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)She identified as white at the time of her marriage. So, there's that layer of wtfery.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)Unless she was subjected to it since she started passing, she most likely hasn't truly shared in their oppression. And, she could become "white" again this afternoon if she wanted to.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)There's levels of cultural appropriation going on here too, which is a conversation that doesn't get to DU very often--we still have challenges with oppression 101 here.
It's an unusual case, but on Twitter people are posting some examples that are anologous, like a Greek-American singer who passed himself off as Black for an R&B career.
It's insensitive and kind of cynical, imo.
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)Now she represents herself as a woman. She could change back anytime, but we respect her choice.
Im not saying the two are the same, but where do we draw the line.
If somebody said that 'Caytlin Jenner can not be a female because she can go back to being a man anytime, that would not be tolerated here.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)She's always been a woman--trans gender doesn't mean you just decide to be a woman one day. Being trans and transitioning is not like putting on blackface.
Jenner went through the oppression of trans gender sexism, in feeling too afraid nearly her whole life to actually publicly be a woman.
Rachael decided to put on the mantle of the oppressed because ? she felt this gave her more moral authority in anti-racism? Because she got a scholarship to Howard for African-Americans and got greedy and then just got in deeper and deeper?
We don't know. But being trans gender is a recognized medical condition. Pretending to be Black is just being an asshole.
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)Well, it would be if Caitlyn Jenner bullshitted her way into women's sports, lied about her gender, filed many false police reports claiming to the the victim of misogynist harassment and served as head of the local NOW chapter *while being a male-identified person in drag* anyhow.
The identities of trans people aren't up for debate.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)are going after her on DU precisely because she is one.
your post is an example.
have you ever been talked about as not really being a female?
so there is a difference.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Like people who allow people to believe on the internet that they are women, or gay, etc. in order to gain credibility in discussions around oppression.
You should not put on blackface and claim you are fighting racism. That is contributing to the problem.
B2G
(9,766 posts)She claims he's a black man and her parents beg to differ.
This is most likely why they have had enough and have gone public.
Lady is looking to be quite the fraud.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)Her background and family life probably contributed to that self identification.
Is that bad or good?
I think I will leave it to the community in Spokane to decide how to judge her. The people who know her and worked with her should have that responsibility.
Elmergantry
(884 posts)If she wants to self-identify as African-American, who are we to judge?
former9thward
(31,798 posts)It doesn't matter what you look like. If you are white and want to declare yourself AA its your business.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)It's just an agency that records what you say it is.
In other words, you're posting a red-herring. Not surprising, but...
former9thward
(31,798 posts)This will be great....
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)What the census bureau "allows" one to put on their census form has no relevance to this issue.
You just want a reason to argue with the people who disagree with the people in this thread who are criticizing her for what she did.
former9thward
(31,798 posts)EL34x4
(2,003 posts)On one of the message boards over at Washington Post someone argued that if she claimed to be African-American in order to qualify for a minority scholarship, she should be charged with a crime.
Would this even be a crime?
This got me thinking; what's stopping anyone from claiming whatever race or ethnicity that want to? It's not like people have to submit DNA samples when they fill out applications. If you say you're African-American in order to qualify for a scholarship, business contract, whatever, who's going to say, "No, you're not. Prove it!"
former9thward
(31,798 posts)That is the point. And it is certainly not a crime to call yourself something different than what the rest of society perceives you to be. There may be other consequences but not criminal.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)nice try!
you are setting up a straw man argument so that you can argue with people here.
rinse, lather, repeat.
former9thward
(31,798 posts)Maybe you should actually read posts before you jump into comment. One can always hope ....
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)former9thward
(31,798 posts)I'll wait.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)You made it sound as if what the Census Bureau accepts is relevant to this discussion --it's not.
former9thward
(31,798 posts)Which certainly implies that there is an arbiter. So who is it?
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)YOU implied that there was a legal issue here, not me.
I argued against that.
But you know what, you wanted to argue with liberals here, so you brought up a red herring to start an argument, then when that was pointed out, you set up a straw man to continue the argument.
Because you don't really care about the issue, you just want to argue with people here, because you like to argue with liberals.
Really easy.
former9thward
(31,798 posts)That is your word. If you don't like my reading my posts the administrators have given you the convenient ignore function.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)historically it's been the other way.
MosheFeingold
(3,051 posts)Would strike me as fraud of some kind. But maybe not; I don't know how the law works in that regard.
Beacool
(30,244 posts)She's Caucasian and interested in civil rights, why did she think that she needed to lie about her race?
ismnotwasm
(41,916 posts)Subsuming African American culture is nothing new, white people do it all the time, as do other races and cultures. But actually "passing" as AA, is a goddam betrayal to the community she insinuated herself into. She wasn't raised AA, she wasn't writing another "Black Like Me" she stole the identity for whatever purpose, and now can easily return to her privledged white world.
JustAnotherGen
(31,681 posts)And I'm very confused about the 'why' - I smell a block buster book in the making.
philosslayer
(3,076 posts)She wasn't raised as a female, and now she can easily return to her privileged male world.
ismnotwasm
(41,916 posts)Wow.
abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)What a tangled web of deception. Hope she gets some help. Her parents sound like a couple of jerks though, too.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)craigmatic
(4,510 posts)temporary311
(954 posts)KamaAina
(78,249 posts)I once had a dialogue with a white woman from Hammond, La. who was chair of her local NAACP; she joined because her husband is African American.
NOLALady
(4,003 posts)But I heard about her. I did not know that her husband was black.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)when I was NOLA-obsessed, and first encountered you.
You are right!
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)He called himself black but was most everyone who knew him said he was white.
Sneak the freak
(14 posts)Well at least she did not try to pass herself off as an American Indian. maybe her cheek bones are high enough to give it a whirl.