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romanic

(2,841 posts)
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 07:12 AM Jun 2015

'Black' NAACP leader outed as white woman

SPOKANE, WA (KREM) -- A recent investigation into racially charged threats made toward the president of the NAACP chapter in Spokane have raised questions beyond who made the threats.

On Thursday, Rachel Dolezal's parents claimed she had been deceiving people.

Ruthanne and Larry Dolezal said Thursday that they want people to know the truth including that their daughter is Caucasian. The Dolezals sat down with 11Alive's Spokane sister station, KREM 2 News and said their daughter is specifically German and Czech.

Rachel Dolezal was born in Troy, Montana. Ruthanne and Larry Dolezal said their daughter has always identified with the African American culture and had black siblings who were adopted. They said she went to school in Mississippi and was part of a primarily African American community.

The Dolezals said Rachel married and later divorced a black man. They said after the divorce in 2004 Rachel began identifying differently. She started claiming to be partially African American and the daughter of bi-racial parents. They said they have noticed her change in physical appearance but do not know how she did so.

"Rachel has wanted to be somebody she's not. She's chosen not to just be herself but to represent herself as an African American woman or a biracial person. And that's simply not true," said Ruthanne Dolezal.

The Dolezals said they do not have a problem with Rachel advocating for a civil rights group for African Americans, rather that she is being deceptive about it.

Rachel's parents said she distanced herself from them and has not talked to them recently.

The same day her parents were interviewed, Rachel Dolezal told KREM 2 News that she does not speak to her parents because of an on-going legal issue.

"There is a lawsuit that's been going on for almost a year, once I supported my sister and allegations against her older brother," said Rachel.

Rachel said she does not consider her biological parents her real parents. She said she is still focused on the threats she received in the mail.



http://www.11alive.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/06/11/spokane-naacp-president-questions/71101474/
(pictures of Rachel Dolezal and her history with the NAACP at the link)

I saw this story on Worldstar and just had to see if it was legit. Yikes. What do you all think cause this is kind of bizarre to me. Is she truly bi-racial or is she lying about her race?
124 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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'Black' NAACP leader outed as white woman (Original Post) romanic Jun 2015 OP
I would have thought her bioparents would know. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2015 #1
Possibly NOLALady Jun 2015 #7
You mean like this guy? ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #9
That Trisha episode Jamaal510 Jun 2015 #25
Just go back 100,000 years and we all have African DNA Yupster Jun 2015 #34
She knows who her parents are and she knows they are white. Boudica the Lyoness Jun 2015 #110
How many african girls with green eyes do you know? DetlefK Jun 2015 #2
Lots. NOLALady Jun 2015 #5
It's not true but at one time in parts of the south TexasProgresive Jun 2015 #6
My Brother-in-Law ... and a bunch of other Black folks I know. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #10
Several (nt) bigwillq Jun 2015 #13
Well, I don't personally know Rihanna, but... Bosonic Jun 2015 #14
Rihanna was my first thought. Then again her grandmother is Irish. nt LittleBlue Jun 2015 #40
All over the neighborhood here in Harlem. nt stevenleser Jun 2015 #24
Quite a few. Green-grey hazel eyes have never been unusual in North Africa. haele Jun 2015 #56
read some more. It's clear she's a sick liar. cali Jun 2015 #62
she never identified or passed in her youth shanti Jun 2015 #83
Fake tan. CHeck out the many photos of her snagglepuss Jun 2015 #58
Plenty GCP Jun 2015 #59
Jeez, where do you live? I know about 6 black people with green or hazel eyes. Not Nay Jun 2015 #61
Stephen Curry, NBA's MVP this year CreekDog Jun 2015 #71
An insular group of family, friends and acquaintances can certainly reduce one's world to a rather m LanternWaste Jun 2015 #74
Many, but I don't recall any of them having white parents and ancestry. Beacool Jun 2015 #78
Several cousins, aunts JustAnotherGen Jun 2015 #82
I know a few mixed people with green eyes. LeftyMom Jun 2015 #91
I went to high school with a dark-skinned black student with bright blue eyes. kwassa Jun 2015 #103
Dated two bothers with green eyes back in the day. And your use of the word "African" is bizarre Number23 Jun 2015 #116
Perhaps we need a 'Race Classification Board'. The South African members are unemployed now and pampango Jun 2015 #3
Montana privilege. lovemydog Jun 2015 #4
pretty self explanatory Baclava Jun 2015 #8
That's a white girl. cwydro Jun 2015 #92
Another African beauty AngryAmish Jun 2015 #11
This story is amazing. Brickbat Jun 2015 #12
Indeed. Eddie Murphy is wondering wtf pintobean Jun 2015 #17
A classic! Brickbat Jun 2015 #18
It sounds like this young woman might need to get some mental health help Marrah_G Jun 2015 #15
My take on it too. She's not too tightly tethered to reality... CTyankee Jun 2015 #21
She's 37 alcibiades_mystery Jun 2015 #22
She looked younger then 37 :) Marrah_G Jun 2015 #23
Her extra melanin Yupster Jun 2015 #38
*SNORT* morningfog Jun 2015 #45
Black don't crack. kwassa Jun 2015 #106
Thats what it seems like to me too. Someone below suggested we respect how folks self identify stevenleser Jun 2015 #26
she isn't young and by the look of things, she definitely needs attention snooper2 Jun 2015 #32
My same thoughts. Beacool Jun 2015 #79
First time in the history of the US Catherine Vincent Jun 2015 #16
The street interview is hilarious. Ace Rothstein Jun 2015 #19
Maybe we should respect how one identifies/ chooses to present oneself. eShirl Jun 2015 #20
Interesting and important point. See my #26 above... stevenleser Jun 2015 #27
On the Constitutionally-required census every 10 years... yallerdawg Jun 2015 #29
Maybe but as I saw someone else say mythology Jun 2015 #30
On the other hand DustyJoe Jun 2015 #35
This message was self-deleted by its author Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2015 #51
Yeah, but the surgery costs an arm and a leg. Orrex Jun 2015 #41
you didn't snooper2 Jun 2015 #42
Wait for someone to accuse me of going out on a limb Orrex Jun 2015 #43
Why do you always have to take it to the extremities? morningfog Jun 2015 #47
As long as he foots the bill. Eleanors38 Jun 2015 #87
I think you've gotten to the nub of it. morningfog Jun 2015 #94
I'm stumped as well OriginalGeek Jun 2015 #93
Orrex, Orrex, Orrex. Nay Jun 2015 #67
Y'all are cracking me up! cwydro Jun 2015 #104
This message was self-deleted by its author Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2015 #50
Sending hate mail to herself... cwydro Jun 2015 #33
sort of reminds me of a non-medical sort of munchausen Marrah_G Jun 2015 #44
Yeah, she could have gone on in the deception forever (the NAACP has white employees Nay Jun 2015 #68
Can you self identify yourself Yupster Jun 2015 #39
And that's another good point. Not for her NAACP job, but for the jobs or work she Nay Jun 2015 #69
Maybe if she really lives the experience One_Life_To_Give Jun 2015 #96
I think you can draw the line when it becomes Starry Messenger Jun 2015 #48
Race is a political classification, like geographical state boundaries. nt valerief Jun 2015 #28
Um, you REALLY should take a half hour and learn something snooper2 Jun 2015 #37
Race is a social constuct AngryAmish Jun 2015 #31
We're all part of an African species. dawg Jun 2015 #36
pretty much Johonny Jun 2015 #46
I can't argue with that. Juicy_Bellows Jun 2015 #81
Her parents have responded to media. Starry Messenger Jun 2015 #49
She's felt the oppression of being passed up for a white woman Capt. Obvious Jun 2015 #53
She married and divorced a Black dude Starry Messenger Jun 2015 #54
Maybe she was trying to get a scholarship to Harvard Law School? Capt. Obvious Jun 2015 #57
Agreed. Sheldon Cooper Jun 2015 #63
Exactly. Starry Messenger Jun 2015 #64
Did Bruce Jenner ever go through the opression of women Travis_0004 Jun 2015 #86
She could not "change back anytime" Starry Messenger Jun 2015 #105
OMG you're right, it's just like that. LeftyMom Jun 2015 #109
She seems pretty oppressed, people who don't have any tolerance for the transgendered CreekDog Jun 2015 #113
While I'm all in favor of people self-identifying, this is on the other side of that line CreekDog Jun 2015 #72
To me, this is like catfishing. Starry Messenger Jun 2015 #76
She is evidently misrepresenting who her father is B2G Jun 2015 #52
At some point, I think she chose to self identify. Agnosticsherbet Jun 2015 #55
Fine with me Elmergantry Jun 2015 #60
The Census Bureau allows you to claim any race. former9thward Jun 2015 #65
The census bureau is not the arbiter of one's race CreekDog Jun 2015 #73
Who is the arbiter of one's race? former9thward Jun 2015 #97
You used the term "allows". It's a red herring CreekDog Jun 2015 #100
Who is the arbiter of one's race? former9thward Jun 2015 #101
Does such an arbiter even exist? EL34x4 Jun 2015 #102
There is no arbiter. former9thward Jun 2015 #107
You're trying to make it sound like people here said what she did was illegal CreekDog Jun 2015 #115
I was replying to a poster who talked about criminal charges. former9thward Jun 2015 #117
You started this argument long before they appeared CreekDog Jun 2015 #119
Cut and paste to where I said anything about crime. former9thward Jun 2015 #121
You can ask that as many times as you want, but it's still a red herring CreekDog Jun 2015 #112
You are the one who brought up that the Census is not the arbiter. former9thward Jun 2015 #114
You implied the census was the arbiter or that somehow was relevant to what she did CreekDog Jun 2015 #118
Cut and paste to where I said the Census was the arbiter. former9thward Jun 2015 #120
"I was born a poor black child in Mississippi." KamaAina Jun 2015 #66
Well this is a new twist, white woman trying to pass as AA riderinthestorm Jun 2015 #70
Curious if she got affirmative action aid or grants MosheFeingold Jun 2015 #75
What I don't get is why she pretended to be AA. Beacool Jun 2015 #77
Disturbed or not she's an asshole ismnotwasm Jun 2015 #80
I'd like to co-sign this post JustAnotherGen Jun 2015 #84
Couldn't Caitlyn Jenner do the exact same thing? philosslayer Jun 2015 #89
You're actually comparing race and gender? ismnotwasm Jun 2015 #99
Crazy story abelenkpe Jun 2015 #85
Wasn't Julie Brown "Trapped in the Body of a White Girl?" Eleanors38 Jun 2015 #88
She's white and she's lying. I guess her heart is in the right place craigmatic Jun 2015 #90
Maybe she was just a real big fan of C. Thomas Howell. temporary311 Jun 2015 #95
Utterly unnecessary KamaAina Jun 2015 #98
I did not meet her, NOLALady Jun 2015 #122
I believe that was during the post-Katrina period KamaAina Jun 2015 #123
Yep. NOLALady Jun 2015 #124
Similar to Wali Farrad, founder of the Nation of Islam. NaturalHigh Jun 2015 #108
At least Sneak the freak Jun 2015 #111

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
1. I would have thought her bioparents would know.
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 07:22 AM
Jun 2015

But she could always get genetic testing if she wanted to prove they weren't her 'real' bio parents, and claim she too was adopted.

(ETA, and, btw, somebody should introduce her to Chris Rock. She might be the white person he's always joked about, who would trade being white to be black.)

NOLALady

(4,003 posts)
7. Possibly
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 08:03 AM
Jun 2015

one of her parents have fairly recent African DNA that they did not know about. I have met quite a few white people who were not aware of their Black ancestry until they began to research their genealogy.

Jamaal510

(10,893 posts)
25. That Trisha episode
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 10:05 AM
Jun 2015

was gold. It was so hilarious how the Corn Cobb was raging on, then he found out at the end that he's part Black. Then Trisha tried to give him a hi-five, and she called him "bro". I bet he was sick to his stomach.

Yupster

(14,308 posts)
34. Just go back 100,000 years and we all have African DNA
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 10:33 AM
Jun 2015

That was a bit before George Washington though so African - American would be a stretch.

 

Boudica the Lyoness

(2,899 posts)
110. She knows who her parents are and she knows they are white.
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 06:42 PM
Jun 2015

She found by being in 'black face' she had more opportunities and she also fabricated stories of hate crimes for job security.

NOLALady

(4,003 posts)
5. Lots.
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 07:58 AM
Jun 2015

My "black" husband as well as quite a few family members have green or blue eyes.

Our schools were segregated when I attended. Probably half of my black classmates had blue, green or amber eyes. At the time, I didn't think it was unusual.

TexasProgresive

(12,148 posts)
6. It's not true but at one time in parts of the south
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 08:02 AM
Jun 2015

green eyes were considered as evidence of possible racial mixing.

haele

(12,581 posts)
56. Quite a few. Green-grey hazel eyes have never been unusual in North Africa.
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 11:27 AM
Jun 2015

Nor in the Middle East. Over the years, I've met many a person that was identified as "black", or who's family was black, who was as light or lighter than she is. There were pamphlets written in the 19th century for government and police officials on how to detect when a black person (i.e., a person who was at least 1/64th African) was trying to "pass", and just from the pictures presented, she could have been tagged as "not white", no matter what she tried to say she was.
They would look at the shape of her eyes, nose, and face, the texture of her hair, the color of her eyes, and skin tone. With today's product, hair texture is a bit difficult to tell from her pictures, but I suspect that the early 19th century slave catchers in Georgia and Louisiana wouldn't care, she's hit at least 5 of the 6 traits I've described, and they'd be asking around for anyone who could make a fuss for her as being white if they had a potential client lined up for the "recovery" of a light-skinned slave of her age.

This often made it difficult for some 19th century Irish and similar immigrants from the southwest of Britain, because depending on how many of their ancestors went fishing down in the Canaries or interacted with the Spanish Moors (which many did), many families have carried a broad "african" nose and grey-green eyes or a clear, olive-based skin tone common to North Africa and some of the Berbers. There are a few incidences of non-english speaking Europeans taken for run-away slaves and sold to plantations in the deep south up until almost the Civil War. If a slave with (to put it politely) more caucasian that african ancestry made it far enough north, it was much easier to pull off being a white man or woman who's family came from Ireland or Great Britain (or from any of the other Southern European countries) and start a new life.
Actually, I think that's what happened with a 2x Great Grandfather of mine who started off as a maitre de at an upscale hotel; when doing the family tree, he suddenly popped up as a 25/26 year old in Chicago around 1859, and no other record could be found of him or anyone else with a similar name around his age anywhere else.
The letters from my 2x Great Grandmother to her swooning friends described as very handsome man with a slight drawl; an oval face with flaring nostrils, almost six foot, piercing green-grey eyes, clear olive skin, and thick, curling light brown hair. Hmmm...of course, that side of my family would never consider he might have been anything but a handsome, penniless immigrant with exquisite manners who made a good living for himself. Except my own father, a history teacher, who often made his grey-eyed, curly haired mother very upset with some of his suggestions when he got annoyed at some of her John Bircher antics.

Anyway, back to the original story.

I suspect that since she apparently could self-identify and perhaps "passed" as black in her youth, there might have been some African or African American in her family anyway, if part of her family tree was either from Southwestern Britain or Ireland, or had been in the US since the early 1800s. I also suspect that if her parents are making a big deal about it, they're not wanting their friends to know that there might be enough AA in their family that in some places, they'd also be considered black, and lose some things they feel entitled to in a social - or even legal - setting.

Honestly, if the lady has a job as a regional head of the NAACP, she's made something of herself, and there's nothing any parent should be ashamed about.

Haele

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
62. read some more. It's clear she's a sick liar.
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 11:52 AM
Jun 2015

and her parents adopted 4 AA kids. I doubt they're concerned about people thinking they're part black. she's lied about so much it's dizzying.

shanti

(21,670 posts)
83. she never identified or passed in her youth
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 03:21 PM
Jun 2015

it was only about 2007 that she started doing that - after her divorce.

Nay

(12,051 posts)
61. Jeez, where do you live? I know about 6 black people with green or hazel eyes. Not
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 11:51 AM
Jun 2015

counting all the actors and actresses on TV.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
71. Stephen Curry, NBA's MVP this year
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 02:59 PM
Jun 2015

you can see him in the NBA Finals on Sunday night.

&w=350&h=254

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
74. An insular group of family, friends and acquaintances can certainly reduce one's world to a rather m
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 03:07 PM
Jun 2015

An insular group of family, friends and acquaintances can certainly reduce one's world to a rather myopic perspective...

Hope you can start getting out more and meet new people!

JustAnotherGen

(31,681 posts)
82. Several cousins, aunts
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 03:19 PM
Jun 2015

And my dad had a very dark complexion - VERY dark - think Idris Elba -

But his eyes never changed when he became a toddler.

They were dark blue! Purty eyes!

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
103. I went to high school with a dark-skinned black student with bright blue eyes.
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 06:02 PM
Jun 2015

All things are possible in the mix.

Here is famed DJ Donnie Simpson

Number23

(24,544 posts)
116. Dated two bothers with green eyes back in the day. And your use of the word "African" is bizarre
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 08:07 PM
Jun 2015

when describing a "black" AMERICAN woman.

Here's a few more black people with green and even blue eyes.

Erykah Badu

Jessie Williams - ?w=630&h=378

Michael Ealy -

pampango

(24,692 posts)
3. Perhaps we need a 'Race Classification Board'. The South African members are unemployed now and
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 07:38 AM
Jun 2015

looking for jobs.

This would seem to be an issue for the Spokane NAACP to deal with. If they want her out they can do so. If they want her to stay that is fine, too. No one seems to contend that she has ever worked as a 'white spy' to undermine minority positions on issues.

Brickbat

(19,339 posts)
18. A classic!
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 09:02 AM
Jun 2015

I was very young when I saw it, and it has stuck with me a long time.

ETA: The party bus!

CTyankee

(63,768 posts)
21. My take on it too. She's not too tightly tethered to reality...
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 09:51 AM
Jun 2015

sad, a real and public melt down...

 

alcibiades_mystery

(36,437 posts)
22. She's 37
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 09:59 AM
Jun 2015

Doesn't void your point about needing help, which is likely correct. But I wouldn't call a 37 year old a young woman. She's a full grown adult.

Yupster

(14,308 posts)
38. Her extra melanin
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 10:37 AM
Jun 2015

keeps the sun from messing up her skin as much as it would if she were white.

Makes her look younger. Thanks African DNA.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
26. Thats what it seems like to me too. Someone below suggested we respect how folks self identify
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 10:05 AM
Jun 2015

There is a line between self delusion and giving someone the room to self identify. I am not sure exactly where that line is.

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
32. she isn't young and by the look of things, she definitely needs attention
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 10:30 AM
Jun 2015

Looks like the hate mail that was being received at the NAACP PO box, was put there by her- I guess she figured she had to be a "victim" of hate crimes to keep her charade going on....



Also this week, Spokane police files on Dolezal’s report that she received a hate mail package and other mailings in late February and March were released. Police records say the initial package Dolezal reported receiving did not bear a date stamp or bar code, which Dolezal herself told police when she reported it. Investigators interviewed postal workers, who said it was either very unlikely or impossible that the package could have been processed through the post office, and that the only other alternative was that it had been put there by someone with a key.

snip-
Dolezal said she received a key to the post office box when she became president of the NAACP earlier this year. Asked about the possibility that she had put the package there herself, she asked, “What mother would terrorize her own children?”


also

Neumaier said he was suspicious of several incidents Dolezal reported in Coeur d’Alene, including her discovery of a swastika on the door of the Human Rights Education Institute when the organization’s security camera was “mysteriously turned off.”

“None of them passed the smell test,” he said.

He said that after Dolezal left the institute and he saw her gaining prominence in Spokane – becoming head of the NAACP, chairman of the police ombudsman oversight commission, teaching at Eastern Washington University, and speaking frequently in public on racism and justice issues – that he became worried that there might be “blowback” for the institute for not doing a better job of vetting her.


Bunch from the Seattle Times

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/northwest/questions-raised-about-race-of-spokane-naacp-head/

Ace Rothstein

(3,099 posts)
19. The street interview is hilarious.
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 09:37 AM
Jun 2015

Reporter: Are you African American?
Dolezal: (with confused look on her face) I don't understand the question.

eShirl

(18,466 posts)
20. Maybe we should respect how one identifies/ chooses to present oneself.
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 09:39 AM
Jun 2015

I hope I'm not being too ignorant

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
27. Interesting and important point. See my #26 above...
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 10:08 AM
Jun 2015

... self identification is important. I am not sure exactly how far that goes, however, or where the line is between allowing someone the room to do that and concluding they are simply self deluding.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
29. On the Constitutionally-required census every 10 years...
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 10:13 AM
Jun 2015

we self-identify our race. We don't go around checking people's racial identification - anymore.

This strikes me as a revival of the old Southern psychosis of 'passing.'

I find the question rude, insulting and racist. But the NAACP will I'm sure make a determination now that this 'question' is asked.

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
30. Maybe but as I saw someone else say
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 10:19 AM
Jun 2015

By presenting herself as black, she's effectively appropriating a past and oppression she hasn't faced.

But then again there are those people who voluntarily have limbs removed because they have apotemnophilia.

DustyJoe

(849 posts)
35. On the other hand
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 10:34 AM
Jun 2015

Would that argument disallow Jenner to identify as a female when he hasn't lived or suffered past opressions of women but is now appropriating that history ? A fine line indeed.

Response to DustyJoe (Reply #35)

Orrex

(63,084 posts)
43. Wait for someone to accuse me of going out on a limb
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 10:49 AM
Jun 2015

Or maybe that I don't have a leg to stand on.


I don't find it humerus, myself.

Response to mythology (Reply #30)

Nay

(12,051 posts)
68. Yeah, she could have gone on in the deception forever (the NAACP has white employees
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 12:39 PM
Jun 2015

and wouldn't care if she came out as white), but she stepped over the nutcase line when she started the hate mail and Nazi stickers stuff against herself. Her parents were correct to call her out when she went too far, and it looks like the police were on to her pretty early. Time for her to re-tether herself to reality.

Nay

(12,051 posts)
69. And that's another good point. Not for her NAACP job, but for the jobs or work she
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 12:41 PM
Jun 2015

did before she got her present position.

One_Life_To_Give

(6,036 posts)
96. Maybe if she really lives the experience
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 05:30 PM
Jun 2015

If you live and present yourself as a minority over a sufficient period of time then sure. Race/Gender really should not matter IMO. This should be about what is your lived experience. Somehow I don't think there will be a flood of white Men running out to adopt AA identities so they can retake the fire dept exams. And of those that tried how many would make it 1 or 2 years?

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
48. I think you can draw the line when it becomes
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 11:08 AM
Jun 2015

blackface and coopting someone else's struggle. That just seems off to me.

dawg

(10,607 posts)
36. We're all part of an African species.
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 10:36 AM
Jun 2015

With very little genetic variation due to a population bottleneck around 70,000 years ago.

Our concept of race is laughably absurd.

Juicy_Bellows

(2,427 posts)
81. I can't argue with that.
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 03:15 PM
Jun 2015

Our concept of race is absurd but society seems to like it that way. Everyone gets placed in their respective boxes as deemed by society as a whole. I wish that weren't true but I don't see it changing any time soon.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
49. Her parents have responded to media.
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 11:12 AM
Jun 2015

They are both white. This story has trended on Twitter and the range of responses is interesting.

I think what she did was wrong, I think there is something off about pretending to be from a group whose oppression you do not truly share in.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
54. She married and divorced a Black dude
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 11:25 AM
Jun 2015

She identified as white at the time of her marriage. So, there's that layer of wtfery.

Sheldon Cooper

(3,724 posts)
63. Agreed.
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 12:01 PM
Jun 2015
I think what she did was wrong, I think there is something off about pretending to be from a group whose oppression you do not truly share in.


Unless she was subjected to it since she started passing, she most likely hasn't truly shared in their oppression. And, she could become "white" again this afternoon if she wanted to.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
64. Exactly.
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 12:09 PM
Jun 2015

There's levels of cultural appropriation going on here too, which is a conversation that doesn't get to DU very often--we still have challenges with oppression 101 here.

It's an unusual case, but on Twitter people are posting some examples that are anologous, like a Greek-American singer who passed himself off as Black for an R&B career.

It's insensitive and kind of cynical, imo.

 

Travis_0004

(5,417 posts)
86. Did Bruce Jenner ever go through the opression of women
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 03:42 PM
Jun 2015

Now she represents herself as a woman. She could change back anytime, but we respect her choice.

Im not saying the two are the same, but where do we draw the line.

If somebody said that 'Caytlin Jenner can not be a female because she can go back to being a man anytime, that would not be tolerated here.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
105. She could not "change back anytime"
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 06:04 PM
Jun 2015

She's always been a woman--trans gender doesn't mean you just decide to be a woman one day. Being trans and transitioning is not like putting on blackface.

Jenner went through the oppression of trans gender sexism, in feeling too afraid nearly her whole life to actually publicly be a woman.

Rachael decided to put on the mantle of the oppressed because ? she felt this gave her more moral authority in anti-racism? Because she got a scholarship to Howard for African-Americans and got greedy and then just got in deeper and deeper?

We don't know. But being trans gender is a recognized medical condition. Pretending to be Black is just being an asshole.

LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
109. OMG you're right, it's just like that.
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 06:19 PM
Jun 2015

Well, it would be if Caitlyn Jenner bullshitted her way into women's sports, lied about her gender, filed many false police reports claiming to the the victim of misogynist harassment and served as head of the local NOW chapter *while being a male-identified person in drag* anyhow.

The identities of trans people aren't up for debate.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
113. She seems pretty oppressed, people who don't have any tolerance for the transgendered
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 07:40 PM
Jun 2015

are going after her on DU precisely because she is one.

your post is an example.

have you ever been talked about as not really being a female?

so there is a difference.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
76. To me, this is like catfishing.
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 03:09 PM
Jun 2015

Like people who allow people to believe on the internet that they are women, or gay, etc. in order to gain credibility in discussions around oppression.

You should not put on blackface and claim you are fighting racism. That is contributing to the problem.

 

B2G

(9,766 posts)
52. She is evidently misrepresenting who her father is
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 11:18 AM
Jun 2015

She claims he's a black man and her parents beg to differ.

This is most likely why they have had enough and have gone public.

Lady is looking to be quite the fraud.

Agnosticsherbet

(11,619 posts)
55. At some point, I think she chose to self identify.
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 11:26 AM
Jun 2015

Her background and family life probably contributed to that self identification.

Is that bad or good?

I think I will leave it to the community in Spokane to decide how to judge her. The people who know her and worked with her should have that responsibility.

former9thward

(31,798 posts)
65. The Census Bureau allows you to claim any race.
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 12:10 PM
Jun 2015

It doesn't matter what you look like. If you are white and want to declare yourself AA its your business.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
73. The census bureau is not the arbiter of one's race
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 03:06 PM
Jun 2015

It's just an agency that records what you say it is.

In other words, you're posting a red-herring. Not surprising, but...

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
100. You used the term "allows". It's a red herring
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 05:40 PM
Jun 2015

What the census bureau "allows" one to put on their census form has no relevance to this issue.

You just want a reason to argue with the people who disagree with the people in this thread who are criticizing her for what she did.

 

EL34x4

(2,003 posts)
102. Does such an arbiter even exist?
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 05:57 PM
Jun 2015

On one of the message boards over at Washington Post someone argued that if she claimed to be African-American in order to qualify for a minority scholarship, she should be charged with a crime.

Would this even be a crime?

This got me thinking; what's stopping anyone from claiming whatever race or ethnicity that want to? It's not like people have to submit DNA samples when they fill out applications. If you say you're African-American in order to qualify for a scholarship, business contract, whatever, who's going to say, "No, you're not. Prove it!"

former9thward

(31,798 posts)
107. There is no arbiter.
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 06:08 PM
Jun 2015

That is the point. And it is certainly not a crime to call yourself something different than what the rest of society perceives you to be. There may be other consequences but not criminal.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
115. You're trying to make it sound like people here said what she did was illegal
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 08:05 PM
Jun 2015

nice try!

you are setting up a straw man argument so that you can argue with people here.

rinse, lather, repeat.

former9thward

(31,798 posts)
117. I was replying to a poster who talked about criminal charges.
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 08:08 PM
Jun 2015

Maybe you should actually read posts before you jump into comment. One can always hope ....

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
112. You can ask that as many times as you want, but it's still a red herring
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 07:37 PM
Jun 2015

You made it sound as if what the Census Bureau accepts is relevant to this discussion --it's not.

former9thward

(31,798 posts)
114. You are the one who brought up that the Census is not the arbiter.
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 08:03 PM
Jun 2015

Which certainly implies that there is an arbiter. So who is it?

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
118. You implied the census was the arbiter or that somehow was relevant to what she did
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 08:08 PM
Jun 2015

YOU implied that there was a legal issue here, not me.

I argued against that.

But you know what, you wanted to argue with liberals here, so you brought up a red herring to start an argument, then when that was pointed out, you set up a straw man to continue the argument.

Because you don't really care about the issue, you just want to argue with people here, because you like to argue with liberals.

Really easy.

former9thward

(31,798 posts)
120. Cut and paste to where I said the Census was the arbiter.
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 08:11 PM
Jun 2015

That is your word. If you don't like my reading my posts the administrators have given you the convenient ignore function.

MosheFeingold

(3,051 posts)
75. Curious if she got affirmative action aid or grants
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 03:08 PM
Jun 2015

Would strike me as fraud of some kind. But maybe not; I don't know how the law works in that regard.

Beacool

(30,244 posts)
77. What I don't get is why she pretended to be AA.
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 03:10 PM
Jun 2015

She's Caucasian and interested in civil rights, why did she think that she needed to lie about her race?

ismnotwasm

(41,916 posts)
80. Disturbed or not she's an asshole
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 03:15 PM
Jun 2015

Subsuming African American culture is nothing new, white people do it all the time, as do other races and cultures. But actually "passing" as AA, is a goddam betrayal to the community she insinuated herself into. She wasn't raised AA, she wasn't writing another "Black Like Me" she stole the identity for whatever purpose, and now can easily return to her privledged white world.

JustAnotherGen

(31,681 posts)
84. I'd like to co-sign this post
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 03:30 PM
Jun 2015

And I'm very confused about the 'why' - I smell a block buster book in the making.

 

philosslayer

(3,076 posts)
89. Couldn't Caitlyn Jenner do the exact same thing?
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 04:15 PM
Jun 2015

She wasn't raised as a female, and now she can easily return to her privileged male world.

abelenkpe

(9,933 posts)
85. Crazy story
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 03:38 PM
Jun 2015

What a tangled web of deception. Hope she gets some help. Her parents sound like a couple of jerks though, too.

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
98. Utterly unnecessary
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 05:33 PM
Jun 2015

I once had a dialogue with a white woman from Hammond, La. who was chair of her local NAACP; she joined because her husband is African American.

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
123. I believe that was during the post-Katrina period
Mon Jun 15, 2015, 10:43 PM
Jun 2015

when I was NOLA-obsessed, and first encountered you.

NaturalHigh

(12,778 posts)
108. Similar to Wali Farrad, founder of the Nation of Islam.
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 06:11 PM
Jun 2015

He called himself black but was most everyone who knew him said he was white.

Sneak the freak

(14 posts)
111. At least
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 07:03 PM
Jun 2015

Well at least she did not try to pass herself off as an American Indian. maybe her cheek bones are high enough to give it a whirl.

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