Imagine! Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton had roughly the same number of people at their kickoffs.

[MannyGoldstein]

Last edited Sun Jun 14, 2015, 09:31 PM - Edit history (1)

About 5,000 for Bernie on a workday in Burlington VT (population 42,000) vs. 5,500 on a weekend in New York City (population 8,000,000, roughly 200 times larger).

Americans are fired up for change, real change.

[questionseverything]

1. i heard 6000 for bernie

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026836539

please show me where i am wrong, that c span is not totally ignoring bernie's campaign

[SidDithers]

2. Yup, they both filled their respective venues to capacity...nt

Sid

[MannyGoldstein]

4. Have a reputable link showing that for Hillary's event?

My understanding is quite different, but I could be wrong.

[wyldwolf]

5. your out is 'reputable.' Now, any link given will be dismissed as not being 'reputable.'

The rally area filled to capacity and an overflow area had to be set up. It is estimated to be the largest attended political rally of the 2016 presidential campaign, even larger than Bernie Sanders’ 4000 at his official launch in Vermont. They waited under the full sun, bearing hot temperatures in eager anticipation of Clinton’s appearance.

http://www.examiner.com/article/clinton-makes-it-official-with-nyc-campaign-rally

Oh, dear, not reputable enough?

http://www.politicususa.com/2015/06/13/hillary-clinton-draws-biggest-crowd-2016-hopeful-nyc-rally.html

[MannyGoldstein]

7. The Examiner article references Politicususa

Politicususa is hyper-disreputable - I've personally caught them just making stuff up.

The overflow area was... well... not overflowing:



And I've seen no reports of people being turned away, and Hillary's campaign isn't claiming they were full.

[wyldwolf]

8. voilą!

[MannyGoldstein]

10. Really good point you make

Prejudice against bull@#$& has no place among progressives, or some such thing.

[NewSystemNeeded]

16. That's unfair.

The overflow areas were for platitudes, not people.

[Divernan]

26. A picture is worth a thousand words, as always.

http://www.inquisitr.com/2168687/hillary-clinton-roosevelt-island-rally-forces-cancellation-of-kids-event-and-blood-drive/

Photo timestamped: 11:20 a.m., June 13, 2015: titled: Jennifer Epstein
✔
@jeneps

Overflow area at the Hillary Clinton rally, sans overflow
11:19 AM - 13 Jun 2015

A section with giant screens set up for an overflow crowd stood nearly empty.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/14/us/hillary-clinton-attacks-republican-economic-policies-in-roosevelt-island-speech.html?_r=0

[BeanMusical]

50. At your first link:

The New York Post contends that the Clinton campaign allegedly did not give advance notice to community representatives in the small enclave located between Manhattan and Queens when it settled on Roosevelt Island — which has only one main road — for today’s major campaign kickoff, a ceremony which has necessitated the rescheduling of other long-planned activities.

"According to the park’s website, a specially planned event for tots called Imagination Playground — which features unique blue building blocks — has been canceled to accommodate the Democratic front-runner for president. Also at risk of major inconvenience: an annual celebration called Roosevelt Island Day, which features a blood drive, hot dog stands and free rides for kids."

[zeemike]

24. In a city of 8 million she drew 6 thousand?

That is something to brag about?
If she was that popular she should have hired Yankee Stadium.

[SaranchaIsWaiting]

36. That is truly confounding for so popular a candidate?

I don't get it.

[Gloria]

55. Sometimes people don't go simply because they are afraid the crowd will be too massive or

the logistics are a pain From what I heard there was a tram but it's not like being in Central Park or a plaza with many access points.
It was an out of the way place, people who were just curious couldn't just drop by if they were in the vicinity...took some time and planning to get there...

I know I've skipped things for those sorts of reasons...like impossible parking

[SaranchaIsWaiting]

56. Then this place was chosen for those reasons, the inaccessability.

Because all those facts were known beforehand. I still don't get it.

[Gloria]

57. No, it was the symbolism, apparently they weren't going for a stadium sized crowd...

A lot of these announcements are meant to be large, yet still small enough to have some sense "intimacy" and being able to walk around and shake lot of hands...

I heard they wanted something historical and had considered Seneca Falls, too.

[KamaAina]

95. Roosevelt Island has had a subway station for quite a few years now.

Just sayin'.

[RoccoR5955]

106. Funny, it was not a problem in Burlington.

I myself walked about a mile to my car. Others were walking further, probably to their homes.

[bvar22]

90. In a city of 8 Million,

where Hillary is the former Senator?????

Draws only 6 thousand to a major campaign event.
There are probably 8,000 PoliSci students in NYC plus the Media that were assigned to attend.

[pangaia]

96. The only part I really don't like is the attempted connection with FDR

.. AND even more so, with Eleanor Roosevelt.

[JaneyVee]

12. Here:

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/events/view/?id=78696/&utm_source=sp&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20150601jp_launch&utm_content=22751599-20160601-JP-launch%20(1)&utm_term=www_hillaryclinton_com_yo&spMailingID=22751599&spUserID=MTA3MzIzMjAxNzUxS0&spJobID=580080112&spReportId=NTgwMDgwMTEyS0

[MannyGoldstein]

15. Those tickets were meaningless; even says that at your link:

"Tickets are not required and do not guarantee admission due to space constraints, but every guest is encouraged to RSVP. All entry to the rally will be first-come, first-served."

The overflow areas were empty.

[JaneyVee]

27. But it does acknowledge that there is a maximum capacity for the event.

And was at capacity. Wasn't it the biggest crowd yet?

[MannyGoldstein]

30. Tickets were not needed to attend

They gave away as many tickets as they chose to, but those are really souvenirs, not tickets. The overflow area was empty, and the Clinton campaign isn't claiming they were at capacity.

[JaneyVee]

33. Look, I'm really happy Bernie is doing great....

I'll vote for him in a heartbeat, but you don't to try to tear down other candidates successes (i.e. huge crowds) to boost your candidate up. Also, no one is waiting on this line without the guarantee of getting in:

[MannyGoldstein]

61. It's just facts. nt

[cherokeeprogressive]

65. The tickets served the purpose of list-building for fundraising.

That $2,000,000,000+ ain't just gonna walk in the door.

[MannyGoldstein]

35. Ah jeez

Now that I'm on a computer instead of my phone, I can see that you're back to your enema sig.

Disrespectful and revolting.

[SidDithers]

43. It really pains me to hear you say that...

Oh wait, no it doesn't.



Sid

[Dr Hobbitstein]

93. Someone is apparently NOT a Batman fan... n/t

[sabrina 1]

92. Hillary actually had set aside an area for ordinary people expecting an overflow

crowd being that she is so well known, it was a logical expectation. That area remained empty.

Bernie was dismissed as irrelevant airc. Yet crowds equal to those attending the event of the 'most recognized women in the world' came out for the least recognized candidate in the world.

Those are the facts. Bernie is greeted everywhere he goes now with overflow crowds because the American people are sick to death of the same old 'politics as usual'.

He will win this election. He has exceeded even the expectations of his most ardent supporters.

[Indepatriot]

6. Stop picking on Hillary!!!! She's THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN BEAT THE REPUBLICANS!!!!!!!!!

[dirtydickcheney]

9. I think you mean she's EXACTLY who the Republicans feel they can beat....

She's not a good speaker and her stance on TPP is let's say "less than is to be desired".

Honestly had no idea she was that bad a speaker until I saw the whole video of the event. Wondering if Obama really didn't mind having put her in the Cabinet because he didn't have the least bit of fear of being upstaged. That and that she's pretty much in the same mode as he is as another corporately-beholden Democrat.

The Democratic Party is really going to be doing a real disservice to itself and the American public if she's their nominee.

[Indepatriot]

11. Your snark detector may need adjusting....

[dirtydickcheney]

13. Sorry... thought you might be joking but wasn't sure....

But did have to pile-on because it's fun.

She's awful.

[NewSystemNeeded]

14. And he only trails her by 12 points in New Hampshire.

Clinton 44, Sanders 32 among Dems.

Among Indies, he leads her by 8.

http://morningconsult.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/150502_crosstabs_mc_NH_v1_AD.pdf

[MannyGoldstein]

18. That's very exciting. nt

[OnlinePoker]

29. Wow.

The last NH poll at the beginning of May had Clinton 62, Sanders 18.

http://images.businessweek.com/cms/2015-05-08/150510_methodology_final_31343.pdf

[Adrahil]

104. In one outlier poll....

... Never base your analysis on a single poll... Especially one that far out from the others taken. If more polls show that, THEN you have something you can tout.

[hrmjustin]

17. Americans are ready for Hillary!

[roguevalley]

22. to lose. :D

[hrmjustin]

23. To win.

[MissDeeds]

44. Good one

I'm ready for her to lose (again) too.

[delrem]

25. I think you mean

Everyday Americans (tm) are
Ready For Hillary (tm) because
It's Their Time (tm).

[hrmjustin]

28. I think you should not presume to speack for me. (ok)

[Autumn]

34. Americans are ready for Bernie

TO WIN!!!!!

[Logical]

47. Like in 2008 when she had a 30 point lead? Nt

[closeupready]

99. Not a problem because she's decided to give us less face time

this time around than she did last time; so the less we know about her, the better we'll feel about assisting in her coronation.

[rhett o rick]

89. Americans are turning out that never have before because they see a candiate in Sen Sanders

that has integrity.

[bigwillq]

19. Was 5,500 the final # for Hillary?

Haven't really heard much about the figure, and I really haven't gone out of the way to check.

I am surprised it was only 5,500 for NYC. (no snark intended). Hillary is usually a big draw. Thought there would be more.

[MannyGoldstein]

20. That was the Clinton Campaign's own estimate

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-06-13/hillary-clinton-talks-economy-her-story-at-first-campaign-rally

[bigwillq]

21. Ok. Thanks for the info (nt)

[SoapBox]

31. Exactly my thoughts...

[uberblonde]

42. It had everything to do with the location.

Roosevelt Island is a real pain in the ass to get to, and there's only one subway line that's less frequent on the weekends. But she wanted it for the symbolism.

http://rooseveltislander.blogspot.com/2008/02/directions-to-roosevelt-island-and.html

Trying to read Clinton's turnout as some kind of comment on her campaign is the equivalent of reading tea leaves.

Waterfront Park in Burlington is less than a mile from the University of Vermont, a few blocks from Burlington College and within walking distance of everything. Incredibly easy access.

[SaranchaIsWaiting]

66. Perhaps the polls showed Hillary's popularity decreasing and Sanders increasing

so a site was chosen specifically to be problematic to attend to avoid embarrassment in case of low turnout. A large venue with few in attendance is a very bad optic.

[peacebird]

83. Yes. Looks better to fill a small site than have a small crowd at a big one. Her overflow areas were

Completely empty.

[pangaia]

98. Look, I am a Bernie supporter, but I don't think that

was the case at all.

It was the relevance, or irrelevance, of the location.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

32. Bernie had expensive BOATS behind him....

Hillary held her event on WELFARE Island.

Who's the one for the little guy?

I'm so confused!

[merrily]

60. What did Hillary say back when Bubba ended welfare as we know it?

Maybe that will give us a clue?

Welfare Island? I didn't know it was called that.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

68. I enjoy a good comedy read from time to times....

http://time.com/3910610/roosevelt-island-clinton/

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jun/14/hillary-clintons-socialist-speech-from-welfare-isl/

[merrily]

69. Then you might enjoy these two:

While Clinton remains strikingly dominant in the Democratic field, the poll shows that her numbers have dropped significantly across several key indicators since she launched her campaign in April.

A growing number of people say she is not honest and trustworthy (57%, up from 49% in March), less than half feel she cares about people like them (47%, down from 53% last July) and more now feel she does not inspire confidence (50%, up from 42% last March).

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/02/politics/hillary-clinton-2016-poll-gop-field-close/

DICKERSON: Here's the question that -- when I talk to Democratic strategist, people even are anxious for her to be president. They say she can list a lot of things. The biggest problem for her is trust. The voters in the polls have shown this. Voters do not trust her. How does she overcome that?

MOOK: Well, first of all, there -- no poll shows that voters don't trust Hillary Clinton.

DICKERSON: They don't find her honest and trustworthy.

MOOK: Well, no poll says that.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/face-the-nation-transcripts-june-14-2015-sanders-graham-mook/

In fact, I think they deserve their own OP.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

70. CNN always cracks me up....

They should fire Wolf Blitzer.

All of their reporting is based on the neck and neck horse race meme.

[Nye Bevan]

37. OK, OK. We Hillary supporters are well aware that our candidate is the underdog.

For one thing, an elementary statistical historical analysis gives a probability of 97.7% that the next president will be a white male, which puts Sanders way ahead in the game. But there is no need to rub it in.

[NewSystemNeeded]

39. Actually, no one of Bernie's ethnicity has ever occupied the White House. nt

[zeemike]

41. Well we have a black president elected twice

So that kind of shoots that down.
And America is ready for a female president too...but not just any female...they are not going just to vote for a vigina...they are going to vote for the policies that help them not the banksters.
Most people are not just one dimensional.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

100. I think that's spelled vagenie.

[zeemike]

105. Had to look that up

[ladyVet]

107. It's a vajayjay! And don't you forget it!

LOL

Me, I'm voting with my head. My inner goddess doesn't know shit about politics.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

112. Vajazzle the vajayjay! Then request the vagenie to let you in!!

That will be my final comment.

[AzDar]

38. K & R

[OilemFirchen]

40. Holy shit! Look at this crowd!

Bernie in NH, May 2:



Sleeping room only!


ETA: Population 1.327 million. On a Saturday.

Because that means something.

[Beartracks]

46. LOL There's even a dude looking thru the window... from the overflow area. n/t

[ChisolmTrailDem]

48. Lol, May 2. nt

[SaranchaIsWaiting]

67. Sleeping room only

Now that was funny...

[Kalidurga]

45. We are just getting started.

[kacekwl]

49. Saddens me to see the infighting between us

We should be happy we have some sane and capable candidates to choose from. I support Bernie but let's not get into this snipping between us. We have plenty to attack with the clown car from the GOP.

[Gloria]

58. True! It's silly and rather immature

I came back to DU to be in a supportive community...feel like bagging it at this point...

[Skidmore]

84. This is the very reason I only

stop by to read now and then and rarely post now.

[Maedhros]

103. Well, the problem for me is that I really do not want to see Hillary in the White House.

I won't call her names or insult her personally, but it's fair game when it comes to policy and campaign tactics.

Sure, we're fighting - for the soul of the Democratic Party. Do we want to go full Third Way, or do we want to go back to politics for people?

[rpannier]

51. Good. It's excellent that they're getting so many out

Happy for both campaigns
I hope that Gov. O' Malley also attracts large crowds

[RandySF]

52. And each had more than any of the Republicans

Unless you count Cruz's, where attendance was mandatory for Liberty students.

[awoke_in_2003]

53. This is nonsensical

and a bridge too far.

[merrily]

54. I see we had similar ideas about Jackpine. What a loss to DU.

[L0oniX]

59. +1

[YOHABLO]

62. Bottom line is the convention will determine who the candidate will be to represent the Dems.

So all this punching between Hillary and Bernie is pointless. It's only the Primary. Bernie supporters, perhaps 50%, will get behind Hillary. No one has even mentioned Martin O'Malley. Why? He's spot on when it comes to progressive issues, yet everyone wants to sweep him under the rug.

[Jesus Malverde]

63. Thanks for recycling

[Emily Grierson]

64. It is awesome that democrats are popular.

And I am loving the polls that show that democrats are Ready for Hilllary!

[joshcryer]

71. Clinton's people are playing it smart, keeping it low key.

Remember in 2012 when Obama had to rearrange speech locations because they determined they couldn't fill stadiums like they could in 2008?

My wager is, going by Clinton's extremely low key campaign, is that her people have told her she doesn't have to go big early.

If you look at the well edited campaign speech that the Clinton campaign put up on YouTube you can hear at the end edited-in chants for "Hillary, Hillary!"

I would be surprised if she managed a 100k event in the entirety of the primary and potentially in the run up to the actual elections. I don't think the advisers want that.

[jeff47]

72. Which is why this event had "overflow zones" that were empty.

Because you set up overflow zones when you expect few people to attend.

[joshcryer]

74. I think that was due purely to messaging (or lack thereof).

The idea going into it was that it was going to be a PITA to get to. They didn't make it abundantly clear that the tickets were meaningless. They didn't actively encourage people to come outside of social media.

Overflow zones are likely a required zoning / safety issue.

Tell me this, why has Clinton kept her only appearances to roundtables? Not a single townhall. All rountables, at small venues, with low populations. It's telling, to me. They want her primary campaign to be this small, no-nonsense, safe approach. The potential for implosion is too great.* This is why I believe Sanders' is going to do extremely well at the debates and should send the Clinton camp absolutely reeling. Clinton has a hard time handling pressure. She can lose an entire debate over a snarky moment.

Had they dipped into Clinton's coffers and put up advertizing to the tune of $10 million to come to the event it would've been completely different. It could've wound up being, actually, a campaign nightmare, if NYC_SKP's suggestion that was what was going to happen, happened. Subways locked down, bridges closed, tens of thousands of people trying to cram themselves in there.

The choice location was very specific, it was to stay low key, and to add an air of history to it.

*and yes this is an implicit argument as to why she'd be a risky general campaign candidate, but that is neither here nor there, as the clown car is unlikely to win against even Vermin Supreme.

[jeff47]

75. Because candidates want to appear unpopular.

You're trying very hard to come up with a positive spin on "She's not very good at running a campaign".

[joshcryer]

77. I don't think it's a bad campaign.

I think it's being carefully managed and purposefully low key. And I think there is absolutely plenty of evidence to prove that. Importantly, they've flipped the messaging for the campaign not to be about Clinton but about her constituents. In that vein they can shrug off her popularity.

(This is in extremely stark contrast to Obama's 2008 campaign when it was literally about Obama ushering in change and being this extraordinary candidate. And in many ways he was. But it came at a cost.)

[AtomicKitten]

109. I remain puzzled by your declared support for Bernie.

For the past 10 years I've been here, you have always been a Clinton advocate. You still seem to be 'splaining a lot on her behalf. No big deal; just an observation.

"Curiouser and curiouser " cried Alice.

[joshcryer]

111. I'm a political junkie first and foremost.

But thanks for your concern.

[Emily Grierson]

73. I am so psyched for her to be our next President of the United States.

It's gonna be freakin' awesome.

She'll probably wind up in the top 10 best Presidents ever. Woo hooo!

[Ken Burch]

76. You're becoming "a heriditary obligation" on the HRC campaign.

Not to get all Faulknerian about it or anything.

[TM99]

78. So less than 50 posts

and pretty much all you say is HRC will be our next president.

Sock puppet?

Paid operative?

Nah, just young & naive I imagine.

[ladjf]

102. Well I've read at least six of her posts and her post total

number has always been 34. How does that happen?

[AtomicKitten]

110. They are no longer with us.

[cui bono]

113. Do we know why? n/t

[Scuba]

80. If Hillary is our candidate, the next President will be Scott Walker.

[totodeinhere]

88. I am a Bernie supporter because I believe that he would be best for our

country. But I also believe that either Sanders or Clinton or O'Malley would beat whatever candidate the GOP puts up. We have a formidable solid blue wall in the Electoral College. And I also reject the idea that Sanders would lose.

[Smarmie Doofus]

79. Less "fired-up", one suspects, than ......

.....sick and tired of the same old bullshit.

[tularetom]

81. I won't believe any event is a flop until I see pictures of porta potties!

Big long rows of porta potties with a tiny cluster of people in the background.

[Enthusiast]

82. Kicked and recommended a whole bunch! I call those numbers significant.

[oberliner]

85. There is enthusiasm for both campaigns

There is no reason to join with the RW in giving HRC crap about how many people were at her event. Roosevelt Island is a lot more inaccessible than the Burlington waterfront. If she had it in Central Park, the numbers would have been a lot bigger. Can't we Democrats get excited about all our great options?

[bettyellen]

86. Democrats would normally not join in the RE smears, nope.

Especially since it's the last thing "their candidate" would want.

[Utopian Leftist]

87. Yes, Democrats should get excited about their "great" options

If by "great" you mean "representative of the beliefs of the PEOPLE," then yes.

Otherwise, we should deeply regret having ANY "options" that are corporate, oligarchic and/or Plutocratic.

[ladyVet]

108. But, why pick an area that is so small and hard to get to?

It doesn't make any sense. Why have a "low key" campaign? Why not show how much support you have? Unless it didn't work before.

Funny, Bernie gets slammed for having his announcement in an area that was easy to access, and capable (I guess, I've never been to Vermont at all) of holding as many people as showed up.

He's put down because the audience was mostly white. What should he have done? Bussed in darker-skinned people to make it look better for the media?

It's insinuated that he's a racist, because he didn't focus his entire speech on issues important only to PoC, while his lengthy fight for equal rights is ignored.

He's called a gun nut and blamed for children being killed at Sandy Hook over a vote more than twenty years ago.

The more people pull shit like that, the more determined I am to vote for him. Because it's making me read more about the candidate, and the more I learn, the more I like him. So, backfire!

[marym625]

91. K&R!

It's very telling.

Regardless of the overflow area being empty or not, the number of people that showed up, the make up of the crowd, etc, and the various and varied reasons; Senator Sanders message is on point with the American people. Consistent and powerful, purposeful record for the people.

The Fringe Candidate encircling the populace.

[kenfrequed]

94. Hah

I recieved an email from the Hillary campaign calling on me to "...let's help build her campaign from the bottom up." Whether you support Bernie or Hillary it is odd to get an email framed in that way from the candidate that has a huge amount of donations from banking institutions and large corporations.

[AtomicKitten]

97. Yet the coverage was decidedly tilted.

[orpupilofnature57]

101. Bernie didn't buy it .