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BzaDem

(11,142 posts)
Mon May 14, 2012, 08:59 AM May 2012

Wow. Jeffrey Toobin: How Chief Justice John Roberts orchestrated the Citizens United decision.

Originally, the Citizens United case was a boring case involving the interpretation of the text of a law. The only question was whether the campaign finance law on the books actually covered the documentary video in the case. It had little to do the Constitution (or whether corporations were people).

However, instead of deciding that question, the court issued a one sentence statement that ordered the case to be reargued. The new question was much broader: were these laws restricting corporate election spending Constitutional in the first place? (This was not a question properly raised by the Citizens United organization at the Supreme Court.) Yet the Supreme Court ignored this, and transformed the case into the mother of all election spending cases. What is known as "Citizens United" was the opinion that resulted from that re-argument.

Outside the 9 justices and their law clerks, I didn't think anyone else knew exactly what transpired behind the scenes that caused the re-argument order and the resulting outcome. But today, an article by Jeffrey Toobin sheds quite a bit of light on what happened:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/05/21/120521fa_fact_toobin



A private drama followed which in some ways defined the new Chief Justice to his colleagues. Roberts assigned the Citizens United opinion to himself. Even though the oral argument had been dramatic, Olson had presented the case to the Court in a narrow way. According to the briefs in the case—and Olson’s argument—the main issue was whether the McCain-Feingold law applied to a documentary, presented on video on demand, by a nonprofit corporation. The liberals lost that argument: the vote at the conference was that the law did not apply to Citizens United, which was free to advertise and run its documentary as it saw fit. The liberals expected that Roberts’s opinion would say this much and no more.

At first, Roberts did write an opinion roughly along those lines, and Kennedy wrote a concurrence which said the Court should have gone much further. Kennedy’s opinion said the Court should declare McCain-Feingold’s restrictions unconstitutional, overturn an earlier Supreme Court decision from 1990, and gut long-standing prohibitions on corporate giving. But after the Roberts and Kennedy drafts circulated, the conservative Justices began rallying to Kennedy’s more expansive resolution of the case. In light of this, Roberts withdrew his own opinion and let Kennedy write for the majority. Kennedy then turned his concurrence into an opinion for the Court.

...

As the senior Justice in the minority, John Paul Stevens assigned the main dissent to Souter, who was working on the opinion when he announced his departure, on April 30th. Souter wrote a dissent that aired some of the Court’s dirty laundry. By definition, dissents challenge the legal conclusions of the majority, but Souter accused the Chief Justice of violating the Court’s own procedures to engineer the result he wanted.

Roberts didn’t mind spirited disagreement on the merits of any case, but Souter’s attack—an extraordinary, bridge-burning farewell to the Court—could damage the Court’s credibility. So the Chief came up with a strategically ingenious maneuver. He would agree to withdraw Kennedy’s draft majority opinion and put Citizens United down for reargument, in the fall. For the second argument, the Court would write new Questions Presented, which frame a case before argument, and there would be no doubt about the stakes of the case. The proposal put the liberals in a box. They could no longer complain about being sandbagged, because the new Questions Presented would be unmistakably clear. But, as Roberts knew, the conservatives would go into the second argument already having five votes for the result they wanted. With no other choice (and no real hope of ever winning the case), the liberals agreed to the reargument.



I'm amazed not just by what happened, but that Jeffrey Toobin found out about this. These kinds of internal court deliberations usually remain secret until decades after the retirement of the justices on the court at the time. (At that point, the deliberations are sometimes are revealed in the justices' personal papers.) Mere mortals like us generally never get to hear about the internal deliberations in modern cases; we just see the opinions.

The only people that could possibly know any of this are the justices, and their law clerks. But the law clerks are sworn to secrecy, and almost never break that promise. (The only remotely recent case where they did do so, to my knowledge, is Bush v. Gore.. And even then, the fact that the law clerks talked was incredibly controversial.)

I suppose a justice or former justice could have told this to Toobin. But that would probably be unprecedented. I wonder if we will ever know who provided Toobin with this glimpse of what went on behind the scenes. In any case, the whole article is a fascinating read about how Citizens United came to be.
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Wow. Jeffrey Toobin: How Chief Justice John Roberts orchestrated the Citizens United decision. (Original Post) BzaDem May 2012 OP
Impeach Roberts n/t malaise May 2012 #1
Impeach Roberts AlbertCat May 2012 #38
Congress can't pass a Valentine's Day resolution...how can they impeach anyone CanonRay May 2012 #51
Agreed. Last time Congress tried to impeach someone was Clinton. The GOP majority is larger now. freshwest May 2012 #65
Yes....impeach roberts!! Jake2413 May 2012 #57
Wow - I have to read this again to let it sink in - and then I'll have to read it again. myrna minx May 2012 #2
And they gotta nerve complaining about judicial Solomon May 2012 #90
Thank you H2O Man May 2012 #3
k&r eom ellenfl May 2012 #4
So Souter's dissenting opinion was never published, PA Democrat May 2012 #5
Though to be fair to Souter, this non-publication is not his fault. BzaDem May 2012 #7
Agreed. I commend Souter for being brave enough to raise the issue. PA Democrat May 2012 #11
you're speculating that souter is toobin's informant? HiPointDem May 2012 #56
I have no idea. But someone told Toobin about the contents of Souter's PA Democrat May 2012 #58
K&R tallahasseedem May 2012 #6
Kick.... eom KoKo May 2012 #8
R#13 & K for visibility of the scumbag (I'm using this line a lot lately) n/t UTUSN May 2012 #9
This is deeply disturbing in so many ways... crazylikafox May 2012 #10
Kennedy has always been one of justices most opposed to campaign finance regulation. BzaDem May 2012 #13
Maybe a superpac should be formed to campaign against Kennedy LiberalFighter May 2012 #49
"The vote to uphold unlimited corporate spending was preordained as soon as Alito was sworn in" Yavin4 May 2012 #53
true... 2banon May 2012 #81
So much for deciding things on their own merits vs. the law... truebrit71 May 2012 #12
If ACA is toast, they are toast. tcaudilllg May 2012 #22
I agree with H2O Man longship May 2012 #14
I wonder if Obama got wind of all this and that is why OKNancy May 2012 #15
Obama is a very smart man, I beleive he has know about this from the get go. crunch60 May 2012 #74
Thanks a lot for posting this, BzaDem... Surya Gayatri May 2012 #16
Depends on who writes history... zeemike May 2012 #21
Who cares about history's judgment? tcaudilllg May 2012 #23
I'd Say the Court (and the Repigs Generally) are Not the Least Bit Worried About How We Judge Them AndyTiedye May 2012 #71
Does the SC actually have a "liberal" side anymore? JHB May 2012 #17
Sworn to secrecy tinrobot May 2012 #18
Fine idea to have the public vote on decisions from the Supreme Court, eh? elleng May 2012 #33
Not at all tinrobot May 2012 #86
Thanks. Gotta read some books about that; elleng May 2012 #89
Thom Hartmann says Constitution never gave SC the right to decide legislational Dont call me Shirley May 2012 #67
And that is how triangulation works. zeemike May 2012 #19
Thank you. K&R lamp_shade May 2012 #20
This is exactly why I oppose life time appointments. olegramps May 2012 #24
while they are "lifetime" appointments, a justice can be removed leftyohiolib May 2012 #39
It is nearly impossible, except for a serious crime, to impeach a justice. olegramps May 2012 #60
K and R---this needs to be seen by everyone panader0 May 2012 #25
Wow a bought and paid for cindyperry2010 May 2012 #26
Citizen's United - aka The Republican Fundraising Gift Act of 2010 Old and In the Way May 2012 #27
Roberts misrepresented himself during those hearings, didn't he? Baitball Blogger May 2012 #28
I never read what the Bush v Gore law clerks said adigal May 2012 #29
Vanity Fair had a great article in 2004 about it; here's the link... pacalo May 2012 #42
where did you find it? grasswire May 2012 #43
It was linked in the OP adigal May 2012 #44
Some "swing vote" Kennedy is. This is nothing short of an outrage. Tatiana May 2012 #30
Toobin has unrivaled access to what goes on at the SC mn9driver May 2012 #31
Both my sons have taken a year off from college to work adigal May 2012 #45
I am in the same boat mn9driver May 2012 #59
I am sorry for all of us - I told my parents and in-laws "Thank you." adigal May 2012 #63
I've read some of Toobin's work. His information though is usually not absolutely confidential BzaDem May 2012 #62
Kudos to Jeffrey Toobin - TBF May 2012 #32
And they claim we have activist judges! jwirr May 2012 #34
To the RW, it's never activism when a decision favors them. They feel it's divine right. bluesbassman May 2012 #55
Excellent post. Chilling. Those 5 unelected right-wing fascists are killing our democracy. SunSeeker May 2012 #35
k&r nt steve2470 May 2012 #36
Especially impressed with Justice Stevens' fervor in his dissent: madamesilverspurs May 2012 #37
K&R. lamp_shade May 2012 #40
So to be certain Souter's xxqqqzme May 2012 #41
well, the highest court in the land is tainted-corrupted newspeak May 2012 #48
Steven's dissent should be run on every newspaper front page benld74 May 2012 #46
Elections matter. Dawson Leery May 2012 #47
Roberts is the Stepford Judge. The Chosen One of the 1%. Zorra May 2012 #50
SCOTUS not trusted ellie50 May 2012 #52
When Good Intentioned Liberals Ask Why Should They Vote for Obama... Yavin4 May 2012 #54
I vote for Roberts as the worst Supreme Court Chief Justice ever. tclambert May 2012 #61
we all need to print out hard copies of that Vanity Fair article for posterity. grasswire May 2012 #64
Impeachment for Roberts, Kennedy, Thomas and Scalia! Dont call me Shirley May 2012 #66
This is totally stunning to me..... Swede Atlanta May 2012 #68
+1 jaysunb May 2012 #72
As an attorney I don't find this at all surprising onenote May 2012 #77
I think there are a few aspects of what happened that are surprising. BzaDem May 2012 #83
HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT May 2012 #69
Roberts is a treasonous bastard. Odin2005 May 2012 #70
Sigh. It makes us look ridiculous when we ignore the Constitution onenote May 2012 #76
Impeach this asshole... nradisic May 2012 #73
With all due respect to the DUers who want to give Mitt Romney a pass cr8tvlde May 2012 #75
When a justice is treasonous, should true justice speak out? aquart May 2012 #78
Impeach Injustice Roberts. aquart May 2012 #79
Activist Court... MrMickeysMom May 2012 #80
This is an exquisite piece of journalism Prism May 2012 #82
K&R (n/t) a2liberal May 2012 #84
Very disturbing. ck4829 May 2012 #85
The day after Citizens United, the first SuperPac began soliciting money. McCamy Taylor May 2012 #87
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe May 2012 #88
 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
38. Impeach Roberts
Mon May 14, 2012, 11:57 AM
May 2012

NOW!

It was obvious from day one he was doing just what he said during his confim hearing he wouldn't do.

CanonRay

(14,085 posts)
51. Congress can't pass a Valentine's Day resolution...how can they impeach anyone
Mon May 14, 2012, 02:36 PM
May 2012

We're screwed until the SOB has a heart attack.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
65. Agreed. Last time Congress tried to impeach someone was Clinton. The GOP majority is larger now.
Mon May 14, 2012, 05:50 PM
May 2012

No way the Teabagger majority are going to impeach the guy who tried to flub Obama's oath and did this. Never happen, wake up Democrats.

The battle is set at the district level in every state. Thanks to the too good to vote crowd in 2010, this is what we're looking at until the next chance to vote the baggers out. Until we get them out, expect more of the same. I hope this OP energizes the base to do it!

myrna minx

(22,772 posts)
2. Wow - I have to read this again to let it sink in - and then I'll have to read it again.
Mon May 14, 2012, 09:03 AM
May 2012

I'm speechless.

Solomon

(12,310 posts)
90. And they gotta nerve complaining about judicial
Tue May 15, 2012, 06:57 PM
May 2012

activism! Ha!!!!!

Reaching to take power away from us people. It's despicable.

H2O Man

(73,510 posts)
3. Thank you
Mon May 14, 2012, 09:16 AM
May 2012

for this. This OP is a great example of the very best of DU. I wish that I could recommend it 1,000 times; I am still happy to recommend it once.

It's stuff like this that keeps me here.

PA Democrat

(13,225 posts)
5. So Souter's dissenting opinion was never published,
Mon May 14, 2012, 09:26 AM
May 2012

in order to protect the reputation of Chief Justice Roberts.

I sincerely hope this gets wide play and puts some fear in Roberts that if he votes to overturn the Affordable Care Act he will prove once and for all that he he the corporate tool that we all know him to be.

BzaDem

(11,142 posts)
7. Though to be fair to Souter, this non-publication is not his fault.
Mon May 14, 2012, 09:29 AM
May 2012

Once the conservatives withdrew their opinions and ordered the case for reargument, there was nothing left for Souter to dissent from. By the time the case was reargued, Souter was no longer on the court.

PA Democrat

(13,225 posts)
11. Agreed. I commend Souter for being brave enough to raise the issue.
Mon May 14, 2012, 09:40 AM
May 2012

I wonder if his disgust with what the Court had become played a role in his decision to retire.

PA Democrat

(13,225 posts)
58. I have no idea. But someone told Toobin about the contents of Souter's
Mon May 14, 2012, 03:26 PM
May 2012

unpublished opinion. Souter was apparently very unhappy with the Court and was said to have "aired some dirty laundry" in the dissenting opinion.

It could have been any number of people who knew about the contents of that unpublished opinion.

crazylikafox

(2,752 posts)
10. This is deeply disturbing in so many ways...
Mon May 14, 2012, 09:38 AM
May 2012

A big eye opener for me is Kennedy's role in expanding the decision to one much broader than originally intended. Although he has always been a conservative, he was considered to be a more moderate, often swing vote. If he's now to the right of Roberts, I really fear for our democracy.

BzaDem

(11,142 posts)
13. Kennedy has always been one of justices most opposed to campaign finance regulation.
Mon May 14, 2012, 09:47 AM
May 2012

Citizens United overruled two cases: one in 1990, and one in 2003. Kennedy was on the court in both cases, and he dissented in both. He also at other times (before Citizens United) called for their overruling, and in other cases said that he believes even direct candidate contribution limits are unconstitutional. He is about as absolutist on this issue as one can be (save Justice Thomas), and has always been.

So Kennedy's vote here was not very surprising (based on his past opinions); I would have been shocked if he didn't vote the way he did. The vote to uphold unlimited corporate spending was preordained as soon as Alito was sworn in; the only question was of when this would happen.

But the actions Kennedy and Roberts took (to turn this run-of-the-mill case into a gigantic Constitutional showdown) are very surprising. The new information Toobin reveals in this article makes is more surprising still.

LiberalFighter

(50,788 posts)
49. Maybe a superpac should be formed to campaign against Kennedy
Mon May 14, 2012, 02:22 PM
May 2012

He isn't running for anything but can still make life difficult for him.

Yavin4

(35,421 posts)
53. "The vote to uphold unlimited corporate spending was preordained as soon as Alito was sworn in"
Mon May 14, 2012, 02:44 PM
May 2012

And THAT boys and girls is why, above all else, you have to vote for a Democrat for president.

Simply put, , the SCOTUS will take away your freedom. End of story.

 

2banon

(7,321 posts)
81. true...
Tue May 15, 2012, 01:20 AM
May 2012

but Alito's appointment to the court could have and should have been obstructed/prevented on every level, but our feckless and in some cases co-opted Democratic Senators joined ranks with the 1% who trotted out Alito and Roberts in the first place.

 

truebrit71

(20,805 posts)
12. So much for deciding things on their own merits vs. the law...
Mon May 14, 2012, 09:46 AM
May 2012

...I think this also signals that "obamacare" is toast in their hands...

OKNancy

(41,832 posts)
15. I wonder if Obama got wind of all this and that is why
Mon May 14, 2012, 09:59 AM
May 2012

he openly criticized the court in his state of the union speech. If he did, he probably couldn't contain his anger.

 

Surya Gayatri

(15,445 posts)
16. Thanks a lot for posting this, BzaDem...
Mon May 14, 2012, 10:00 AM
May 2012

excellent, albeit shocking read.

Roberts and his court will be harshly judged by history.

This travesty of a ruling must be overturned through legislation. Democracy cannot prevail in such a climate.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
21. Depends on who writes history...
Mon May 14, 2012, 10:21 AM
May 2012

“He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present controls the past.”
― George Orwell, 1984


JHB

(37,157 posts)
17. Does the SC actually have a "liberal" side anymore?
Mon May 14, 2012, 10:02 AM
May 2012

Or is it more like the "non-conservative" side?

For that matter, is there a "conservative" side anymore, or just a RW radical side?

tinrobot

(10,887 posts)
18. Sworn to secrecy
Mon May 14, 2012, 10:09 AM
May 2012

What bothers me is that the Supreme court is the ultimate decider of our constitution, yet does this decision making in complete secrecy.

So much for transparent democracy.

Dont call me Shirley

(10,998 posts)
67. Thom Hartmann says Constitution never gave SC the right to decide legislational
Mon May 14, 2012, 06:14 PM
May 2012

constitutionality. They took that power unto themselves in the 1803 Marbry vs Madison. The ultimate "deciders" of constitutionality are the voters.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
19. And that is how triangulation works.
Mon May 14, 2012, 10:15 AM
May 2012

And it is used over and over again to get what they want...and the left never seems to be able to counter it.
K&R

olegramps

(8,200 posts)
24. This is exactly why I oppose life time appointments.
Mon May 14, 2012, 10:35 AM
May 2012

The right wing extremists have a death hold for years to come over any legislation that challenges their rigid conservatism and determination to destroy their opponents. People need to wake up to the fact the the Supreme Court has been hijacked by the Opus Dei cult who are determined to create a virtual theocracy.

 

leftyohiolib

(5,917 posts)
39. while they are "lifetime" appointments, a justice can be removed
Mon May 14, 2012, 12:11 PM
May 2012

A Supreme Court Justice may be impeached by the House of Representatives and removed from office if convicted in a Senate trial, but only for the same types of offenses that would trigger impeachment proceedings for any other government official under Articles I and II of the Constitution.

Article III, Section 1 states that judges of Article III courts shall hold their offices "during good behavior." "The phrase "good behavior" has been interpreted by the courts to equate to the same level of seriousness 'high crimes and misdemeanors" encompasses.

In addition, any federal judge may prosecuted in the criminal courts for criminal activity. If found guilty of a crime in a federal district court, the justice would face the same type of sentencing any other criminal defendant would. The district court could not remove him/her from the Bench. However, any justice found guilty in the criminal courts of any felony would certainly be impeached and, if found guilty, removed from office.

source: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_a_US_Supreme_Court_justice_be_impeached_and_removed_from_office

olegramps

(8,200 posts)
60. It is nearly impossible, except for a serious crime, to impeach a justice.
Mon May 14, 2012, 04:45 PM
May 2012

That is why I continue to back the same call for an admendment to the contstitution. It appears to be the only solution to the abuse by the court that is taking place.

Old and In the Way

(37,540 posts)
27. Citizen's United - aka The Republican Fundraising Gift Act of 2010
Mon May 14, 2012, 10:39 AM
May 2012

The Republican Party's agenda was making it uncompetitive with citizen funding. They needed new sources of funding - corporations and RW billionaires. The interests that this Party represents. The Republican majority on SCOTUS gave their Party this gift decision which is working to undermine democracy in our country.

 

adigal

(7,581 posts)
29. I never read what the Bush v Gore law clerks said
Mon May 14, 2012, 10:46 AM
May 2012

Can anyone point me in the right direction for this? Thanks,

Never mind, I just read it. Gets me sick.

Tatiana

(14,167 posts)
30. Some "swing vote" Kennedy is. This is nothing short of an outrage.
Mon May 14, 2012, 10:51 AM
May 2012

Of course, when you know everything is 5-4 in your favor, you can do whatever the hell you want -- nevermind the intent of Congress or the Constitution.

mn9driver

(4,419 posts)
31. Toobin has unrivaled access to what goes on at the SC
Mon May 14, 2012, 10:53 AM
May 2012

He has developed relationships with people over many years and I find him quite credible. His prediction that the ACA will be struck down is almost certainly accurate. It will be a 5-4 decision, it will not be based on law but on ideology, it will ignore Stare Decisis, and will contribute to the collapse of the health care system. Congress will be unable to craft any legislation that could be relied on to get by the conservatives on the court, since they are now making their own rules based on what they believe instead of based on the Law.

Our constitutional system is just about done, folks.

 

adigal

(7,581 posts)
45. Both my sons have taken a year off from college to work
Mon May 14, 2012, 01:17 PM
May 2012

and one may not go back. Will he lose the health care he has under me? He is 20 and my other son is 21.

mn9driver

(4,419 posts)
59. I am in the same boat
Mon May 14, 2012, 03:29 PM
May 2012

If the ACA is struck down, my 21 year old will lose his insurance with me. He can't afford to buy a decent policy on his own, and I can't afford to buy one for him. Plus, he has a pre-existing condition that will be impossible to insure on the individual market.

I don't think it matters very much whether the SC strikes down the whole law, or just the mandate, except in terms of timing. If the whole thing is struck down, our kids will lose coverage at the next coverage interval. If just the mandate is struck down, it will take a little longer, but the whole law will eventually fall apart.

 

adigal

(7,581 posts)
63. I am sorry for all of us - I told my parents and in-laws "Thank you."
Mon May 14, 2012, 05:27 PM
May 2012

Thank you for voting for a political party that will take away your grandson's insurance.

BzaDem

(11,142 posts)
62. I've read some of Toobin's work. His information though is usually not absolutely confidential
Mon May 14, 2012, 05:24 PM
May 2012

information like this.

As for his prediction, it very well could be accurate. But I don't think he has any inside information telling him this. He came out with his prediction immediately after oral argument, based on the tenor of the argument. (And he wasn't the only one; the argument did not look good.) In particular, his prediction came out even before the justices cast their votes, and before he could have talked to anyone. He walked right out of the court on argument day to make the prediction.

If someone told him the outcome of the case, that would be a gigantic breach in security. No outcome has been leaked before the announcement in several decades (and the last time it happened was one day before the opinion announcement, in different circumstances). If this outcome in particular were leaked, there are massive dangers relating to insider trading. (This decision has the potential of reshaping a huge part of our economy.) Even given these revelations (a few years after the events in Citizens United occurred), I would be absolutely shocked if anyone other than the justices and law clerks knew the outcome in the case.

TBF

(32,013 posts)
32. Kudos to Jeffrey Toobin -
Mon May 14, 2012, 10:54 AM
May 2012

and to whichever clerk (and/or justice ... though that would surprise me) leaked this. K&R

bluesbassman

(19,361 posts)
55. To the RW, it's never activism when a decision favors them. They feel it's divine right.
Mon May 14, 2012, 02:59 PM
May 2012

Justice, fairness, and what's actually best for the country doesn't even enter their minds.

SunSeeker

(51,516 posts)
35. Excellent post. Chilling. Those 5 unelected right-wing fascists are killing our democracy.
Mon May 14, 2012, 11:03 AM
May 2012

Jefferson is spinning in his grave.

madamesilverspurs

(15,799 posts)
37. Especially impressed with Justice Stevens' fervor in his dissent:
Mon May 14, 2012, 11:44 AM
May 2012

Stevens was just warming up. His dissent was ninety pages, the longest of his career. He questioned every premise of Kennedy’s opinion, starting with its contempt for stare decisis, the rule of precedent. He went on to refute Kennedy’s repeated invocations of “censorship” and the “banning” of free speech. The case was merely about corporate-funded commercials shortly before elections. Corporations could run as many commercials as they liked during other periods, and employees of the corporations (by forming a political-action committee) could run ads at any time.

Stevens was especially offended by Kennedy’s blithe assertion that corporations and human beings had identical rights under the First Amendment. “The Framers thus took it as a given that corporations could be comprehensively regulated in the service of the public welfare,” Stevens wrote. “Unlike our colleagues, they had little trouble distinguishing corporations from human beings, and when they constitutionalized the right to free speech in the First Amendment, it was the free speech of individual Americans that they had in mind.” Congress and the courts had drawn distinctions between corporations and people for decades, Stevens wrote, noting that, “at the federal level, the express distinction between corporate and individual political spending on elections stretches back to 1907, when Congress passed the Tillman Act.”


xxqqqzme

(14,887 posts)
41. So to be certain Souter's
Mon May 14, 2012, 12:27 PM
May 2012

opinion never sees the light of day and to 'protect' the court's reputation, robert's lobbies for a re-argument. Knowing, in advance, what the decision will be, he insures the court's reputation will be cheapened beyond repair rather than a brief news item. Those 5 should all be wearing 24K gold, diamond encrusted dollar signs around their necks. Imagine the visual impact against the black robes.

newspeak

(4,847 posts)
48. well, the highest court in the land is tainted-corrupted
Mon May 14, 2012, 02:15 PM
May 2012

Of course, the court's reputation was cheapened when two SC judges did not recuse themselves for conflict of interest in Bush V Gore. Some of us knew that they already were bought and paid for hacks, most not even worthy of respect.

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
50. Roberts is the Stepford Judge. The Chosen One of the 1%.
Mon May 14, 2012, 02:29 PM
May 2012

Groomed and selected by the 1% to protect the plutarchy and destroy democracy.

Roberts is a primary reason that the 1% made sure that the 2000 election could be stolen, and got stolen in fact.

They needed their boy in there.

It would be the one of the best things that could happen to everyone on the planet, and the planet itself, if he had to leave the bench right this minute, for some reason.

ellie50

(31 posts)
52. SCOTUS not trusted
Mon May 14, 2012, 02:43 PM
May 2012

This is but one reason the SCOTUS is so poorly regarded these days

As the U.S. Supreme Court begins its 2011-2012 term, Americans’ approval of the institution is now 46%, a drop of 5 percentage points in the last year and 15 points in the last two years.

grasswire

(50,130 posts)
64. we all need to print out hard copies of that Vanity Fair article for posterity.
Mon May 14, 2012, 05:45 PM
May 2012

Need to keep an archive, each of us, of the most critical documents regarding the election 2000 and Citizens United. Keep it for your descendants.

 

Swede Atlanta

(3,596 posts)
68. This is totally stunning to me.....
Mon May 14, 2012, 06:23 PM
May 2012

As an attorney this just makes my jaw drop.

One of the hallmark differences between our legal system and that of civil law countries such as France, Italy, etc. are that the judges to not inject themselves into the legal cases before them.

By that I mean, a judge is never supposed to raise an issue or an argument that one side or the other could or should have made. The are to simply consider the legal arguments of both sides against the facts and render a judgment.

Here, the Court asked a legal question neither of the sides placed before them for consideration.

If this account is true in my view Roberts and those who may have colluded with him are susceptible of impeachment.

onenote

(42,598 posts)
77. As an attorney I don't find this at all surprising
Mon May 14, 2012, 11:41 PM
May 2012

Maybe I'm just cynical. Or maybe its just experience. Justices push arguments that narrow or broaden the scope of a case all the time. Indeed, the eye-opening lesson for me in the first Supreme Court case I worked on (I've worked on three) was learning from experienced Supreme Court attorneys that I needed to throw out my experience and expectations of how a court will approach an issue. The SCOTUS often decides not to decide issues that were argued to it and, while not as common, its not unheard of for a Justice to argue that the court should address issues not viewed as essential to the decision by the attorneys.

The case was reargued, which would seem to undermine any claim of misconduct. Rearguments -- often expressly sought to buy time to get a different result in the case -- have a long history. Indeed, two of the most famous cases of my lifetime -- Brown v. Board of Education and Roe v. Wade were both reargued before they were decided.

The result in Citizens was wrong, imo, and contrary to established precedent. But the way the court got to that result is actually not without precedent.

BzaDem

(11,142 posts)
83. I think there are a few aspects of what happened that are surprising.
Tue May 15, 2012, 02:10 AM
May 2012

The first is that Roberts was willing to change his view (from "the statute applies" to "the statute doesn't apply&quot , so he could rule on a Constitutional question that was not properly before the court (and overrule decades of precedent).

The second is that whatever procedures were used to do this were so unusual and/or shocking that Souter was about to take an unprecedented step of spilling the beans of an internal procedural issue in his dissent. That really is kind of a "nuclear option." It brings to mind judge Boggs' "procedural appendix" to the 6th circuit opinion in Grutter vs. Bollinger (the affirmative action case eventually heard by the Supreme Court). Judge Boggs basically accused the liberal lion on the court (judge Boyce Martin) of bad faith, and manipulating the procedures to achieve a desired result. The result of this was that Martin and Boggs (and another judge who joined Boggs) were apparently not on speaking terms.

If Souter was about to do anything remotely similar, whatever Roberts was about to do was probably quite bad. According to Toobin, it is only to prevent this from becoming public that Roberts ordered the case reargued (to a date after Souter would no longer be on the court).

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
70. Roberts is a treasonous bastard.
Mon May 14, 2012, 09:22 PM
May 2012

And yes, he is a traitor. The Corporations are at war with the American People, that makes Roberts a traitor.

onenote

(42,598 posts)
76. Sigh. It makes us look ridiculous when we ignore the Constitution
Mon May 14, 2012, 11:35 PM
May 2012

Read the Constitution. I can't wait for Roberts to be gone, but claiming he's a traitor only reveals the ignorance of the one making the claim regarding what constitutes treason in the United States.

nradisic

(1,362 posts)
73. Impeach this asshole...
Mon May 14, 2012, 10:44 PM
May 2012

I'm in. Impeach John Roberts. He is not fit to be on the Supreme Court, but then again many of us knew that during his confirmation proceedings.

cr8tvlde

(1,185 posts)
75. With all due respect to the DUers who want to give Mitt Romney a pass
Mon May 14, 2012, 11:25 PM
May 2012

on anything that might be "controversial" ... consider 8 years of Citizen's United appointees. What a merry bunch of 1%ers that will be.

aquart

(69,014 posts)
79. Impeach Injustice Roberts.
Tue May 15, 2012, 12:31 AM
May 2012

Sure he'll burn in Hell. But we won't know what's happening down there.

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
80. Activist Court...
Tue May 15, 2012, 12:49 AM
May 2012

That ruling and what Roberts has been doing with this Court is nothing short of activist.

It's wrong, they know it's wrong and history will prove that this was the last horrid bunch of activist judges. I hope they are shorted of their careers soon.

McCamy Taylor

(19,240 posts)
87. The day after Citizens United, the first SuperPac began soliciting money.
Tue May 15, 2012, 11:32 AM
May 2012

And the case the Bush administration brought in order to allow the SCOTUS to issue its Citizens United ruling was so irregular ----for Bush (when did Bush ever try to enforce campaign spending limits?)--that it was obvious that the Bush DOJ and the SCOTUS planned this all out together.

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