Request: can we simply call the TPP a *Republican* bill

[MannyGoldstein]

instead of associating it with Obama? That should calm down the folks who howl about Obama being attacked by Democrats. Peace is a good thing.

True, calling it a Republican bill won't adequately characterize all of its supporters. Although...

[neverforget]

1. Uh oh.

[beam me up scottie]

3. Scootch over...

[neverforget]

5. Cheers!

[DanTex]

2. While we're at it, let's just call the Hillary bashers "Republicans"

[cherokeeprogressive]

16. You can call those who don't support Hillary Clinton whatever the hell you want.

This was posted earlier today:

"I find it insulting that someone not supporting her thinks they are the real liberals."

It's like Clinton supporters have blinders on I swear.

[Art_from_Ark]

35. It appears that the definition of "liberal" has changed dramatically

A liberal from the '70s would be labeled a "left-wing fringe type" nowadays. It just boggles the mind.

[sabrina 1]

43. You can thank the Third Way for that. Former DLC. They are deathly afraid of the Left who they know

will always tell the truth about their policies. They probably despise the left of the Dem Party more than the Republicans, to whom they are way closer on the issues anyhow.

They keep wanting a pat on the head from Republicans, but no matter how much they 'reach across the aisle' they simply can't their approval.

That's what happens when you say you are one thing but are really something else. No one ends up respecting you.

I always wondered why they didn't just start their own party. But then they don't really care much about anything other than Privatization and Deregulation and to get their agenda accomplished they needed the Dem Party to do it. Repubs were already bought but one party wasn't enough to get things done, so they bought into the Dem Party and then gained control of it.

The only fly in their ointment was The Left.

[Art_from_Ark]

44. Great synopsis, Sabrina

Right on the mark

[rbnyc]

61. +1 nt

[Zorra]

67. If they started their own party, it would have failed. Infiltrating and

neutralizing the Democratic party was their most logical and effective course of action.

They created a compromised this Democratic party. They did this by using wealth and treachery to covertly subvert the traditional Democratic party New Deal populist platform during the Reagan debacle, and making it more like the corporatist republican party platform, but leaving it considerably different from the republican party by espousing any social concern issues that would not conflict with the profit and control desires/requirements of wealthy private interests.

They don't really care if a republican or a Democrat is in office, as long as the officeholder does not go against the needs of the major financial interests. In this way, they created, and maintain, our current "lesser of two evils" one and a half party system.

The only major threat to their 1 1/2 party system of control by oligarchs is the populist Left. They know they can easily dupe, control, even create, the naive, oblivious, and impotent "moderate center" with propaganda from all types of media sources, . Creating a cult of personality around certain political figures creates and draws a culture of starry eyed sycophants to help them maintain control and promote their profit goals.

Like you said, sabrina1, the Left is the fly in the ointment, the only actual threat left to the revolutionary dictatorship of the oligarch that remains on the planet. And wealthy private interests have worked long and hard to minimize the Left in both reputation and numbers, dumbing down the population through cuts in education, constant propaganda, and making it more difficult for the average person to prosper, even survive.

Honestly, I can't imagine the oligarchs allowing the Left to endanger their *Matrix* through systemic political means, but I'm all about helping Bernie drive them out of our government if it is indeed possible.

I have posted the following passage many times here. Markos understands the full scope of global oligarchy and its completely devastating effect on humanity and our beautiful planet. What he wrote in this essay is as real as it gets.

It explains the ideology of, and the motivation behind, the now defunct DLC and the Third Way. It explains why the globalists are using economic warfare to depose the government of Venezuela in order to bring it under oligarch control.

The global power of the financial centers is so great, that they can afford not to worry about the political tendency of those who hold power in a nation, if the economic program (in other words, the role that nation has in the global economic megaprogram) remains unaltered. The financial disciplines impose themselves upon the different colors of the world political spectrum in regards to the government of any nation. The great world power can tolerate a leftist government in any part of the world, as long as the government does not take measures that go against the needs of the world financial centers. But in no way will it tolerate that an alternative economic, political and social organization consolidate. For the megapolitics, the national politics are dwarfed and submit to the dictates of the financial centers. It will be this way until the dwarfs rebel . .

http://struggle.ws/mexico/ezln/1997/jigsaw.html

[hifiguy]

78. It is far more profitable and efficient to conquer the world without war.

That leaves all the property/resources and people in place so they can be exploited to the utmost and quietly disposed of later, respectively.

[Enthusiast]

68. Precisely.

[hifiguy]

76. As usual, your words pack a multi-megaton truth bomb.

[DanTex]

54. I think "Republican" is probably too generous for people who think there's not

a dime's worth of difference between her and the GOP. I would go with "clinically insane" but that's unfair to clinically insane people. What word would you suggest?

[cherokeeprogressive]

56. You're doing fine all by yourself...

Don't expect me or anyone else to pick up the shovel and help you dig this hole.

[DanTex]

63. Interesting non sequitur.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

49. So people farther to the left of you are 'Republicans'?

Given that you're farther to the right, wouldn't that make you a 'Tea Partier'?

[DanTex]

55. I'm talking about people who suffer from mass delusions and don't care about

the future of the country. When it gets to the point where people think that there's no difference between Hillary and the GOP, it's not a question of "right/left" anymore. It's an emotionally issue, and it's based on personal hatred.

[daleanime]

58. So let's see, we've redefined 'bashers' and now 'republicans'....

all that's left is 'Hillary' and then we'll have the whole set.




Or was that the goal all along?

[DanTex]

64. I don't know, you should probably ask the OP that.

I can only speculate as to the motivations of people that constantly bash leading Democrats like Hillary and Obama. I know that this is exactly what the GOP wants and what they encourage, but I truly don't know why people claiming to be the left decide to play along.

[MannyGoldstein]

69. My OP was bashing?

Was it because Obama called Obama a "Republican" in the video?

[Jumpin Jack Flash]

100. Pretzel logic!

Gee... where have we heard that word before?

[Rex]

85. So the GOP doesn't like the TPP? Strange seeing someone defend the GOP and the bill they love so

much. And that your brought in HRC into the conversation...you are good at it!

[JoePhilly]

99. Good response.

[pa28]

4. The TPA bill and TPP itself are both Republican policy priorities.

After years of obstruction it's strange how Boehner, McConnell and Paul Ryan are suddenly working harder than Mark the Match Boy to push this thing through.

[aspirant]

6. How do we know

the majority of the corporate authors aren't Repubs?

[ohnoyoudidnt]

7. IIRC, NAFTA also had most Republican support and most Dems opposing.

Of course, Clinton did play a big role.

[840high]

8. oh Manny - ....

[PowerToThePeople]

9. It is a Republican bill. n/t

[Omaha Steve]

10. I agree 100%

[hifiguy]

80. Anyone who denies that inescapable fact is

a goddamned, bald-faced LIAR on a Nixonesque level.

“Richard Nixon is a no good, lying bastard. He can lie out of both sides of his mouth at the same time, and if he ever caught himself telling the truth, he'd lie just to keep his hand in. ”


― Harry S. Truman

[ucrdem]

11. No it really isn't. It's a comprehensive trade reform bill, much more than an FTA.

We've already got NAFTA with Canada and Mexico, we've been trading with Japan and the other eight (possibly nine if China joins) for decades, and with a few notable exceptions tariffs are already approaching non-existent in most cases. To the extent that I've been able to get a grasp of it it really isn't a GOP bill at all, or at least, it isn't intended to be. The devil is in the details of course but we'll never get to make a determination one way or the other unless TPA finally gets done one of these days. ETA: it already passed both houses so I'm guessing that it will eventually.

Meet the TPP: TPP At-a-Glance

[jwirr]

13. Didn't lobbyists from multi-national corporations help write it? That alone would make it a R bill.

[Elwood P Dowd]

25. The USTR wrote it which means, yes the lobbyists wrote it. The USTR is nothing but a revolving

door of corporate lawyers, corporate lobbyists, and corporate bean counters.

[jwirr]

26. Thank you. I thought so.

[Elwood P Dowd]

31. Also, don't forget........

Bill Clinton's USTR was run by Mickey Kantor, a corporate lawyer and lobbyist. He helped shepherd the NAFTA implementing legislation through in 1993. IOW, he was the point man or HLIC (head liar in charge).
It was a George H.W. Bush deal all the way. The only thing changed when Clinton took office was that some worthless side agreements (some lipstick on the pig) were added.

[jwirr]

70. I did know that it was written by GHW bush and only passed because Clinton was in office. No

wonder the BFEE call him one of their sons by another.

[Exilednight]

46. Lobbyist just don't lobby Rs. SoS Clinton helped

Negotiate parts of this agreement.

It's an inconvienent truth.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

50. I think that says more about 'SoS Clinton' than it does Democrats as a whole. nt

[hifiguy]

81. That HRC is owned by the corporatists and the MIC is the worst-kept secret

around here. EVERYBODY with a functioning cerebral cortex knows it but there are many in denial. Her leash is as long as Blankfein and Dimon decide it is and not one bit longer.

[sabrina 1]

71. You're right, sort of. When legislation is written, IN SECRET, by Multi National Corporations,

denying OUR CONGRESS, who ARE the 'LEGISLATIVE BODY', let me explain that for anyone who isn't clear on our system of checks and balances, it means THEY write the laws for the country, or they USED to, denying our sovereign right to participate in our government,, we have lost our democracy.

I certainly don't believe that Multi National Corps writing our laws are going to be too concerned about OUR rights. I believe since the Constitution, the law of the land, hasn't been enough to protect our sovereign rights, we now need amendments to the Constitution to make this new practice of Foreign Corps writing our laws preventing us from seeing them or participating through our Reps, then bullying our Legislative Body into rubber stamping them without even an opportunity to add an amendment.

I don't care WHAT is in this abomination, the REAL problem is the attempt to deny our elected officials to do their job under the US Constitution.

I am glad it was stopped, now Congress should convene to make sure that no entity ever again tries this type of coup.

[NewSystemNeeded]

12. Well, there is a reason that Republicans are out of ideas.

They finally decided to go along with him on one.

[JonLP24]

39. Obama said it's fair to say the Republicans were the party of ideas for the last 10-15 years

Dead serious too

"I think it’s fair to say that the Republicans were the party of ideas for a pretty long chunk of time there over the last 10, 15 years, in the sense that they were challenging conventional wisdom. Now, you’ve heard it all before. You look at the economic policies that are being debated among the presidential candidates, it’s all tax cuts. Well, we’ve done that. We’ve tried it. It’s not really going to solve our energy problems, for example…so some of it’s the times.”

http://www.nytimes.com/ref/us/politics/21seelye-text.html

Well "long chuck of time" and other things leave room to wiggle out of but the Reagan worship is too much for me.

For me this is the biggest head scratcher

Obama: Margaret Thatcher Was Champion For Freedom And Women

Obama says many Americans remember Thatcher, who died Monday from a stroke at age 87, standing "shoulder to shoulder" with President Ronald Reagan during the Cold War. He says she showed then that leaders don't have to be swept along by the currents of history, but can shape them "with moral conviction, unyielding courage and iron will."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/08/obama-margaret-thatcher_n_3037404.html

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

51. He left out the word 'stupid'.

Or possibly the ones 'morally corrupt'. Just stick that in front of 'ideas'.

[daleanime]

59. +1

[Art_from_Ark]

66. I'm sure it was an unintentional omission

[Jack Rabbit]

14. That's OK with me

If it upsets some people that Obama is pushing a Republican trade bill, then they've no one to blame but Obama. He arrogantly assumed that Democratic leaders would do what he told to do, and that didn't happen. Instead most congressional Democrats are opposed to the TPP. If it was intended to be a Democratic trade bill, please explain why the Democrats have blocked it and that the only ones plotting strategy to get this corporate fascist takeover of sovereign states passed are now the President and the Republican leadership.

I hate to see this happen to a man a voted for twice, but it's better than seeing the TPP pass. By isolating himself with the GOP, Obama has become the Joe Lieberman of 2015.

[FairWinds]

15. How about an . .

"Oligarchic bill" ?

Or a "Ruling Class bill"?

[gordianot]

17. You haven't heard? If you are for or against TPP is a secret & is why this is called a secret deal.

Of course Obama's support is a ploy to see it fail. I learned that right here on DU. It seems to have scared Hillary. Secrecy does enhance paranoia. As for myself whatever Jeb wants I am against it.

[zeemike]

19. Perhaps this was his 11th dimensional chess strategy all along.

And the Republicans have fallen right into his trap...next move checkmate...we win!!!

It is the only way I can explain it...he is the grand progressive chess master that will make progressives the winner.

[Art_from_Ark]

40. He has a rook, a pawn, and a king left on the board

and his strategy is to keep moving his king.

[Marr]

20. That's why this is his *second term* priority.

There aren't many people gullible enough to look at this sort of policy and still believe he's with the 99%.

[JonLP24]

34. China lobbied the 96 elections hard

Clinton waited until 1999 for PNTR

[SoapBox]

21. And the impotent MSM forgets...

That all Pukes and their creepy henchmen (U.S. chamber of Commerce and others) support this.

That should be setting off alarm bells.

[joshcryer]

22. Yet again you want to take credit away from Obama!

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

52. Ok, that was funny! nt

[RichVRichV]

23. Of course it's a Republican agreement.

Can anyone sit here and tell me that after years of them voting against anything (no matter how much sense it makes) just because president Obama supports it, they're now falling lock step behind him on a progressive bill? Give me a break!




Let me throw a little logic into the situation. Which is more likely?

A) Majority of Republicans in congress decided to become progressive, and majority of Democrats in congress decided to become conservative all of a sudden.

B) A single person, president Obama, decided to join sides with the Republicans.



Even the most hard core Obama-ites can't possibly believe that A is the answer. That would be a fox news level of delusion.

[Populist_Prole]

29. Spot on post

It's the massive elephant in the room that team-players try so hard not to notice, that they create more of a disturbance.

Also, concurrent with the sudden desire for GOP/Democratic "bipartisanship" ( when it comes to carrying the plutocrat's water ) is the harsh, scathing invective the president is using against the progressive/populist base of his own party for opposing this trade deal. It's like he's more angry at them than he ever was at "the party of no" republicans during their obstruction of his heretofore agenda.

This reeks to high heavens.

[Scuba]

45. /\_/\_This right here_/\_/\

[nationalize the fed]

24. At least the ACA wasn't based on a Heritage Foundation idea

uh...wait

The health insurance mandate in the 2010 Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare, is an idea hatched in 1989 by Stuart M. Butler at The Heritage Foundation in a publication titled "Assuring Affordable Health Care for All Americans". This was also the model for Mitt Romney's health care plan in Massachusetts. Source

Sadly, Obama has proven that all it takes is changing a letter

[jwirr]

27. Well it kind of was - Romney Care.

[Duppers]

82. That's NTF's post's exact point.

[JeffHead]

28. More like a Republican wet dream. nt

[Hoyt]

30. It's actually an agreement for America and the world's future, some folks are too myopic to get it

Some folks think scuttling it will maintain the status quo, which if course they gripe about as well.

[Elwood P Dowd]

33. Hoyt, you need to apply for a job on the Comedy Channel.

The World's future is in the balance. Without TPP, we are all doomed!

[Hoyt]

38. Better than TPP is gonna send my job to Mexico so I'm against it no matter how good

it is for future generations, America, and the world. That ain't funny.

[Art_from_Ark]

41. Here's a summary of why we need the TPP

according to TPP shills, er, supporters:

If we don't pass the TPP right freaking NOW, my stock portfolio will suffer, I mean, the 12 TPP countries will go to war with each other!!!!! I mean, if multinational corporations can't run the show in these countries I mean, CHINA!!!!! They're building port facilities in Colombo, SriLanka DONCHA KNOW???!!! How the hell are we gonna contain Red Freaking Communist China if we don't pass the TPP?????? China MUST be stopped, goddammit, even if it means total corporate takeover of all 12 TPP countries!!!!!!

[JonLP24]

32. Most people probably don't know this but Bush was there for first round of TPP negotiations

There were put on hold for the Obama inauguration and Hillary Clinton wants them on hold until she takes office. Considering the opposition both inside & outside the US its probably going to die a slow death but US will do its best to keep them on life support.

Its clearly more about other things than trade because US, Japan, and China already trade with the countries heavily (US with trade deficits in the Southeast ones).

[AgingAmerican]

36. Call it what it is

Fascism

[Elwood P Dowd]

37. TPF

“Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power”
― Benito Mussolini

[JonLP24]

42. I don't know much about that guy

Just a little bit but how does a guy on the Fascist Party ticket, I mean even have enough credibility to have the appearance of it, something I'm not getting. From what I read liberals were afraid to support the Socialist candidate, worried about USSR-style socialism. Business supporting him figuring they'd get lassez-faire (trickle-down) economics til they found out he micromanaged them also.

Something I'm missing because it has to be completely rigged but how does something like the Fascist Party even get away with Fascist Party. Even Hitler went through the Socialist Party or something with a pro worker name. Something I don't get with the straight forwardness of it all.

[RandiFan1290]

47. Just like the Bush tax cuts he fought so hard to make permanent. nt

[Nye Bevan]

57. You do know that the top income tax rate is back to its Clinton-era level? (nt)

[Vinca]

48. It is a Republican bill . . . but why is Obama supporting it?

It makes about as much sense as a woman voting for a GOP legislator.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

53. Mr bipartisan?

The guy in the video in the OP? The guy whose health care push was a dusted off Republican plan from several decades ago? the guy who over and over, invited Republicans to stuff poison pills into everything?

It makes perfect sense. Take off the rose coloured glasses, and see him for what he is. He's never been the socialist all the Republicans kept proclaiming him. After all, what better way for them to push every single conversation, every single bit of legislation to the right than to proclaim that a solid centrist is the far left end of the spectrum?

[B Calm]

74. Corporate political spending thanks to our Supreme Court. Obama

is probably paying them back?

[Amishman]

60. no, its a corporate interests bill, and both parties have guilt

the pubs have more blame to claim, but we should not wash our hands of it either. Those responsible for pushing this abomination need to feel the heat, ALL of them.

[raouldukelives]

104. None more so than those who own the corporations responsible for drafting it. nt

[B Calm]

62. Damn right it's a republican bill, so was NAFTA.

[SidDithers]

65. Keep hammering that wedge, Manny...nt

Sid

[MannyGoldstein]

75. Well...

[grahamhgreen]

72. "bohnertrade"

[pampango]

73. The republican base prefers to call it "Obamatrade". They don't like it at all to say the least.

ObamaTrade returns on Tuesday – Call Congress 202 224-3121 tell them Vote NO!

The House of Representatives will vote on Obamatrade – again! – on Tuesday. Call 2o2 224-3121 – tell Congress to vote NO!

John Boehner and Barack Obama are pushing H.R. 1314, that will give Obama the power he needs to enact Obamatrade, the secretive TransPacific Partnership.

In addition, H.R. 1314 will also raise taxes on small businesses to fund a wasteful welfare program for union members.

Tell your congressman to vote No on H.R. 1314 when it comes before Congress this week.

http://obamatrade.com/obamatrade-returns-on-tuesday-tell-congress-to-vote-no/

[Art_from_Ark]

97. And Democrats in Congress don't like it

because it's a festering pile of crap that is designed to give corporations way too much power over people's lives.

[pampango]

102. You're right. The tea party congressmen are the only ones who actually follow their base's wishes.

The tea party base hates "Obamatrade" with a white hot passion and their tea party representatives in congress have voted against fast track and undoubtedly will against TPP if it ever comes to that.

The republican base, in general, hates "Obamatrade" - though perhaps without the white hot passion that the tea party feels. And republican congressmen have voted overwhelmingly against the wishes of their supporters in their base.

And in this "bizarro" world, Democrats in Congress have voted against it even though a majority of their base supports fast track and TPP. Go figure.

[Art_from_Ark]

105. Oh, FFS

How hard is it to understand that the majority of Democrats who are not Congresspeople have no clue as to what is actually in the TPP, while Democrats who have actually read the goddamn thing don't like it?

[pampango]

106. It is actually pretty hard for me to believe that Democrats in the base are clueless

regardless of what one might hear on RW radio.

Of course, the opinion of those of us "outside the Beltway" is inherently less "informed" than that of congress people whether the issue is trade agreements, health care reform, Wall Street regulation, raising taxes, etc. They know more about legislation and negotiations than many of the rest of us. If that diminishes the significance of the base's opinion on such issues in your eyes, so be it.

[Art_from_Ark]

107. How can the base have an opinion of a secret agreement?

Once again, the Democrats who have read the damn thing are mostly against it.

Free trade deals always screw the little guy and favor corporations.

[Freddie Stubbs]

77. Only one political party's platform calls for support of the TPP

Here's a hint: It's not the Republicans.

[City Lights]

87. Great point! nt

[Art_from_Ark]

91. Great point, except that it's false

The Republican Party is gung ho for "free trade" and specifically mentioned support for TPP in its platform.

[City Lights]

95. So supporting the TPP is in both party platforms.

Thanks for letting me know.

[Art_from_Ark]

90. Um, you must have missed this part of the Republican platform

" A Republican President will complete negotiations for a Trans-Pacific Partnership to open rapidly developing Asian markets to US products."

http://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Republican_Party_Free_Trade.htm

[Freddie Stubbs]

93. I stand corrected. Both parties support the TPP

[Art_from_Ark]

96. Except that the majority of Democrats in Congress don't support it

especially after members like Elizabeth Warren and Sherrod Brown actually found out what's in the damn thing.

[Freddie Stubbs]

103. They are acting in contravention to the Democratic Party's official stance

[whatthehey]

79. Somebody should tell Republicans that

[Art_from_Ark]

92. Someone should tell the Republican Party that

"The Free Trade Agreements negotiated with friendly democracies facilitated the creation of nearly ten million jobs supported by our exports. That record makes all the more deplorable the current Administration's slowness in completing agreements begun by its predecessor and its failure to pursue any new trade agreements with friendly nations.

"We call for the restoration of presidential Trade Promotion Authority. It will ensure up or down votes in Congress on any new trade agreements, without meddling by special interests. A Republican President will complete negotiations for a Trans-Pacific Partnership to open rapidly developing Asian markets to US products. Beyond that, we envision a worldwide multilateral agreement among nations committed to the principles of open markets, what has been called a "Reagan Economic Zone," in which free trade will truly be fair trade."

http://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Republican_Party_Free_Trade.htm

[bigwillq]

83. This is Obama's baby.

It should be called an Obama bill supported by republicans.

[Rex]

84. They love it, their votes prove it so I have no problems say it.

I am always wary of anything the GOP likes.

[KauaiK]

86. I do NOT and can NOT understand Obama's support of TPP.

It's like he's being blackmailed or owes something to someone. There isn't one shred of benefit out of the agreement. Why would he damage his legacy with this monstrosity?

[sabrina 1]

89. I don't understand it either. He is aligned with the Republicans against the Dem Party. If we could

have looked into the future and seen this, that election would have turned out a lot differently.

What's interesting to note is this, at about the same point in HIS administration, Bush also tried to Fast Track his Trade Bill. It failed, thanks to Democrats.

Why did neither of them try it when they had one more election to face? I think the answer to that is clear. They would not have been reelected.

This may very well be a debt owed by candidates who are supported by Corporate money. Two presidents trying it at a point in their political careers when it cannot harm their chances of reelection.

I think you might be on to something there.

[Pastiche423]

88. No

It's Obama's bill.

It is the only thing he has been passionate about the entire time he's been in office.

[msanthrope]

94. I await your Charleston thread. nt

[Art_from_Ark]

98. Imagine a "Reagan Economic Zone"

That's what the Republican Party platform calls its vision of a worldwide TPP. Gag me with a spoon

http://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Republican_Party_Free_Trade.htm

[Hoyt]

101. Tbaggers are against TPP too. They don't like trading with foreigners. Strange alliance.