I'm not laying off shit!

[trumad]

My favorite Truman quote: Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything.

If going after Romney's silly ass Magic Underwear religion hurts him politically---I'm going after his silly ass religion.

This is fucking war people...... Four Supreme Court Justices in their seventies---

You give a guy like Romney the chance for 8 years you can kiss every Progressive right goodbye and be assured that they will rig the game for years to come.

You wanna play nice---then don't come bitching (context) in 2020 that Church and Wall Street are dictating what and what you can't do in America.

Be nice my ASS---------------------FUCK THAT!

[kentuck]

1. I have to give this one a big kick!

:kick:

[AllTooEasy]

139. I agree that his religion is 'weird', but ...

I just think it's bad political strategy. It goes against our progressive values to be anti-any-Religion or anti-atheist or anti-agnostic. Conservatives will easily and justifiably call us out on this and we could lose votes. Remember, the point is to win votes. The Repukes tried this with Obama in 2008 and the dumbasses not only loss, but loss Indiana and NC! I don't want that to happen to us.

I suggest a better tactic, expose how Conservatives Christians REALLY hate Mormons and only exploit them only for votes. That should royally phuck them up!

[daleanime]

153. Just because we are not 'anti-any-Religion'....

doesn't mean we lose our sense of humor. And trust me, magic under wear is funny!

[coalition_unwilling]

2. K to the effin' R. If Romney doesn't want his Mormonism an issue, then

he has to discontinue his courtship of the Christian right. Romney can't have his cake and eat it too.

[11 Bravo]

3. Fucking A, trumad! I've got your six on this one. ANYTHING which lessens the chance ...

that Romney ever gets to appoint a justice to the SCOTUS must be employed!

Fight fair my fucking ass!

[Laurian]

4. Amen, trumad!

Gotta fight fire with fire.

[Bolo Boffin]

5. Well, at least you're not making up a religion for him to be in to attack him

the way right-wingers attack Obama for being Muslim when he's not.

As an atheist, I think getting into the mythology of any religion is a quick bus ride to Crazytown. And I personally have a problem with giving the control of nuclear weapons to anyone who thinks Jesus will give them a mulligan.

Just remember that everything you're throwing at Romney hits Harry Reid, too.

[trumad]

6. Harry Reid won't be deciding Supreme Court Justices.

[Bolo Boffin]

26. The Senate does vote to confirm Supreme Court nominees.

Well, at least they do in theory.

[obamanut2012]

12. I, personally, often disagree with Reid

I also suspect he's a Jack Mormon. Romney isn't.

[harmonicon]

60. "Jack Mormon"? What does that mean? (nt)

[daaron]

66. It means, more-or-less, "baptized Mormon, but not anymore." nt

[FreeState]

81. He is not a Jack Mormon - he's a believer

http://www.sltrib.com/lds/ci_13629152

Washington » Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid keeps a copy of the Book of Mormon in his office just off the chamber floor. There's a second copy handy to give away to someone in need of spiritual guidance.

"I've had more than that," says the Nevada Democrat, pulling the extra edition from his desk drawer. "I have one left."

The Temple-recommend-carrying Reid is very active in his church, say fellow members in the Washington area. But that may come as a shock to some Mormon critics who contend that the Senate leader's political stands put him at odds with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

The latest round of religiously charged criticism came after Reid told gay rights groups in a private meeting that the LDS Church's efforts to back the anti-gay marriage Proposition 8 in California was a waste of resources and hurt the faith's missionary efforts.

[Bluenorthwest]

88. Harry as a Senator is there to represent his State. He has not asked for my vote.

Nevada is in the top five States in terms of percentage of the population being Mormon.

[Bolo Boffin]

91. None of that changes the fact that any attack on Romney's Mormon faith

is an attack on Reid's Mormon faith, too.

And like I say, it's all Next Stop Crazytown to me.

[lumberjack_jeff]

107. We all know that he's a FLDS'er

He and Warren Jeffs. Birds of a feather.

It's less of a reach than calling Obama a muslim.

[SunSeeker]

112. Exactly. Didn't his grandfather have 5 wives and have to flee to Mexico?

Aren't there still Romneys/Romney land holdings down in Mexico? Geez, if Obama had roots like that, could you imagine the uproar?

[RagAss]

7. Ok...I'm in.

[NightWatcher]

8. Just win, baby

As long as we stay legal, we can talk about anything. This is a serious election.

[EFerrari]

28. I like that.

"Just win, baby."

[Scurrilous]

9. K & R

[NYC_SKP]

10. K/R.

[panader0]

11. K and R

As an atheist, I find all religions strange, but Mormonism seems especially weird.

[Daemonaquila]

52. Nah, no stranger than any other.

The reason people think it's weirder, is because they (a) know less about it, (b) know fewer members of the religion on average, and (c) it's more "modern" than most other major organized religions. After all - a talking burning bush? Resurrections? An apple of knowledge? Turning a dame into a pillar of salt? Bizarro shit, my friends. It's just familiar and ancient enough that we can shrug and write it off as primitive myth - weren't those ancient peoples so quaint? But Mormonism asks you to believe that same level of happy horsepuckey happened right here in America in relatively modern times. That's emotionally harder to write off the same way. Lies are lies, and tall tales are tall tales. Every half-assed chieftain, modern or ancient, likes telling stories that make 'em look impressive.

[harmonicon]

62. Thank you for pointing this out.

I don't get people who think one crazy religion is somehow better or more appropriate than another. Romney and other Mormons don't believe in anything more crazy than Obama and other Christians. I think all religions are nuts, but I'm not going to say one religious nut is nuttier than another. I only become concerned when a religious politician wants to govern on the basis of their religion. It really seems like Obama does not, so I don't care what his religion is. With Romney it's hard to say. I don't see him spewing any specifically Mormon things, but he'll say a lot of shit to pander to the Christian right. Does he believe those things? I don't know or care, but I do care that I think he would work to make religious-based policy into law.

[daaron]

68. Right but he could never win if he spouted specifically Mormon shit.

So he's tweaking it to fit the fundamentalists.

[yankeepants]

13. I am so with you.

No more swiftboat oppotunities.

Let's be vigilant re: voter fraud and intimidation. Let's call them on every BS item the Koch bros put out.

This is it people.

[monmouth]

14. A most excellent post...K&R..n/t

[kentuck]

15. I would like to migrate this attitude to Wisconsin...

And defeat Scott Walker and the National Republican Party apparatus. This is war, people. Either we defeat them or they defeat us. There is no in-between.

[lastlib]

132. K AND R!!! We HAVE TO WIN this battle to win the war!!

[SammyWinstonJack]

16. rec.

[Iggo]

17. Preach it!

[tularetom]

18. WHo the hell is suggesting that anybody lay off Romneyand/or the cult he belongs to?

Maybe some members of the liberal media advocate that but fuck them, they'd rather see republicans get elected anyway.

I don't know any real people who would advise the Dems to lay off.

[trumad]

20. Uh---there's a thread in GD currently asking us to...

[EFerrari]

21. Here:

http://election.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=684703

[progressoid]

19. Its a win/win to me.

If we take down Mitt, and reduce the influence of the regressive, repressive, oppressive LDS Church, that's a win/win in my book.

[Waiting For Everyman]

22. K&R so big this should be pinned somewhere prominent all election season.

[Rex]

23. Giving in to the enemy or making exceptions

is no different then aiding and enabling the enemy imo. Of course that thread (the MM thread) was meant to cause an uproar...starting with WE and then ending with an accusing YOU...very transparent as to the intentions of the poster imo.

I've seen children post with better skill.

[dionysus]

56. meanwhile, i'm laughing my ass off at peoples obsession with the guy...

[sabrina 1]

156. Not with the guy.

Some issues are of the utmost important to actual Democrats, not to be used as fodder for the far right. Yes we democrats do get a little obsessed about feeding the hatred of the far right. Most likely you have not followed this story or I can't imagine why you make so light of it. I see nothing laughable about the rights of women, minorities or the LGBT community, frankly.

[randome]

67. 'Giving in' can also be seen as playing on his terms.

I don't think it's necessary to take shot at his -ahem- 'religion'. Because there will be blowback. A skilled opponent can paint this as being against religion in general. And we don't need that hassle.

Hit Romney on his lack of personality and economic prowess. He's weak enough there as it is.

[librechik]

24. Mitt is the lay offer

not us

[Go Vols]

25. +1

[madrchsod]

27. yup.........

[TrollBuster9090]

29. Four Justices in their seventies is pretty much all that needs to be said...

All it took was ONE (Roberts) to engineer the selling off of American democracy to multinational corporations and billionaire plutocrats.

FUCK CIVILITY! Bring out the political mustard gas, biological warfare agents and suicide bombs. We've gone FAR beyond "Class Warfare" and we're now talking about POST-OCCUPATIONAL CLASS GENOCIDE and the survival of the middle class. If this crap is allowed to continue we're heading straight for a Dickensian novel!

[sulphurdunn]

31. People should not disparage

the religious convictions of others until they make them political. Nothing remains sacred in politics, nor should it.

[Wait Wut]

32. There are better things to attack him on.

I'm not attacking him on his religion. Mine is probably just as silly as his.

But, I can attack him, without mercy, on every other damned thing. The more that comes out about this asshole, the more I realize he's not just another doofus like Bush. This guy has evil in him.

I avoid ridiculing people's faith. I don't see it as "being nice", I see it as being respectful of someone's right to believe. Just keep it outta my house, my body, my mind, my public schools, my government, etc. If you don't, all restrictions are off.

[trumad]

49. Nope---disagree

Right Wing Christians dislike Mormonism big time.

Let's make them like it even less.

[customerserviceguy]

54. Exactly

If this is the best we've got, then we admit we have a pretty poor case, which we don't. Let the media pick on the edges of his religion, but let everyone associated with the Democratic Party simply say that it is a shame that they focus on them.

They call it the high ground for a reason.

[Sherman A1]

63. Precisely

Even though I don't have much use for any religious doctrine, I will not attack someone for their belief system.

[Major Hogwash]

84. It goes to the heart of his belief system. A complete lack of character, etc.

That's what the dog on roof story is about.
That's what the holding down the gay kid in school to cut his hair is about.
That's what the dismantling of companies held by Bain are about.
That's what the story of his wife owning 2 Cadilliacs is about.
That's what the story of the car elevator in his mansion is about.
That's what the story of his lies about him giving advice to President Obama to let GM and Chrysler to go bankrupt so he should get credit for it is about.

It's a complete lack of character.
He lies worse than Gingrich ever did.
That's why he beat Gingrich in the Liar's Contest the Republicans call "primaries" that they just held.
The prize for the biggest GOP liar is they get to face off against President Obama this fall.
I'm not going to break out "teh list" of accomplishments that President Obama has done in his first 3 years in office, but remember one thing -- Romney is going to call President Obama a liar for taking credit for those things, and it is because Romney believes in a false religion!!

And that's how Romney excuses his behavior.
He can lie and look in the mirror the next day with no guilt whatsoever because that is how he was raised.
He believes he is better than anyone else who is not a Mormon.
He believes that he can say whatever he wants to say, because he is doing it out of the "moral goodness of his heart".
He truly believes that he is doing it "for the common good".

Romney even claimed one time he was a member of the middle class and that President Obama was trying to destroy the middle class in America.
Since when was a guy worth a 1/4 of a billion dollars a member of the middle class??

[xtraxritical]

104. The founder was an illiterate, over sexed, farm boy turned con man.

Joseph Smith was a complete con man especially to seduce women. The sound minded people of Missouri hung him for his sexual predatory proclivities. I surly would rather believe in the teachings of Jesus as put forth at the Sermon on the Mount, Beatitudes - Matthew 20 something. Angel Moroni, lost golden plates my ass.

[Doctor_J]

89. Why not ALL of those things?

including his religion that didn't admit blacks until the late 70's?

[SunSeeker]

113. LOL. That's probably the only aspect of Mormonism the baggers can relate to.

But hell yes, that should be brought up. The Republicans made a huge deal out of Obama's former church pastor Wright being racist--to the point Obama had to disown him. And Wright never even kept white people out of his church.

[snooper2]

129. If you think your religion is silly too why do you follow it?

Is it just the pomp and pageantry that turn you on to it?

[Wait Wut]

142. Wow.

There is no pomp and pageantry at all. In fact, it's not an organized religion, purely my beliefs.

There is a part of me that believes all religions are silly. But, there is another part of me that has faith in something I'm unsure of.

Is that okay?

[snooper2]

143. I guess it's okay but it's not logical...

I would think that the fact your body is literally made up of star dust would be awesome enough


I think this will help you out on labels

&feature=g-u-u

[Wait Wut]

151. Of course it isn't.

Faith has no logic. That's why it's called faith.

My favorite color is green. There is no logical or scientific explanation for my choice. I just like it.

Can't watch vids at work.

FYI, the label I've attached to myself is: Pagan/Buddhist/Optimistic Agnostic. Doesn't make any sense at all. I've tried finding a nifty way of putting them all together in one word so I can start my own church, though.

[harun]

131. There is simply more to lose by attacking his faith than to gain. Wise choice is to

hit him on the million other idiotic things he's done.

[Cali_Democrat]

33. I agree completely.

[CreekDog]

34. I think I know what your screenname means

nice rant, by the way.

[Yuugal]

35. tru-mad FUCK YEAH!

tru-mad, FUCK YEAH!
Coming again, to save the mother fucking day yeah,
tru-mad, FUCK YEAH!
Freedom is the only way yeah,
RMoney, your game is through cause now you have to answer too,
tru-mad, FUCK YEAH!
So lick my butt, and suck on my balls,
tru-mad, FUCK YEAH!
What you going to do when DU comes for you now,
it's the dream that we all share; it's the hope for tomorrow!

[malaise]

36. Ditto

[Swamp Lover]

37. Perhaps your efforts will tack down the babbling, rambling...

...foaming at the mouth voters....

[DLevine]

38. Absolutely. K&R. n/t

[CanonRay]

39. Kicke & Rec +1000

[Nye Bevan]

40. Because nothing wins votes like making fun of a candidate's underwear.

Go for it.

[EFerrari]

44. No, nothing wins votes like giving corruption a pass. Good luck with that. n/t

[obxhead]

41. The entire Republican party has been taking this attitude for decades.

Being "better then that" has gotten us involved in too many wars, destroyed our economy, shipped millions of jobs overseas never to return, and gotten the church far too involved in our government.

Fuck the opposition. Nuclear (metaphorically) war is not even close to enough in my opinion.

K&R

[ErikJ]

42. Where are the 12 gleaming cities of marble?

No shred of archaeological evidence. I always thought that was "odd".

Here's an article from Alternet which I havent read yet:

Everything You Need to Know About Mormonism
Pundits still haven't figured out how to talk about Romney's Mormon religion. Here's everything you need to know.

http://www.alternet.org/teaparty/155296/everything_you_need_to_know_about_mormonism

[lillypaddle]

43. Oh, Trumad,

you have SUCH a way with words

K&R

[countryjake]

45. Kick & Recommend!

Wow, you've managed to keep this one on here a whole hour...now that's a small victory, but considering what's at stake this year, I don't see how anyone can disagree with what you've said. Anyway, it's not called "playing nice", it's called PLAYING to WIN!

[ProSense]

46. Harry Reid is

a Mormon, not a nut!

Sen. Harry Reid: ‘I Believe That People Should Be Able To Marry Whomever They Want’
http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/05/09/481548/reid-marriage/

Leave NitMitt Rmoney alone!!!

Oh, hell no!

[sufrommich]

47. We should shave their heads too.

You know, so we know they're from that nasty minority religion when we see 'em.

[trumad]

55. Huh?

[BlancheSplanchnik]

61. Nazi reference---I invoke Godwin's Law

mocking silly underwear in reference to a class A #1 shyster (oooo, see what I did there? I used a Yiddish word! Mazeltov!) religion-bully is not in the same class--not in the same UNIVERSE--as THE HOLOCAUST

[hobbit709]

48. "I'm not ready to make nice"

[FraDon]

158. another viewing from the stunning Dixie Chicks …

… pumps me back up, everytime

[link:

?rel=0|

[47of74]

50. K&R

[justiceischeap]

51. It's not about laying off his faith but asking

how his faith would inform his politics. And if you think for one moment his faith doesn't inform his politics in some sense, then you've got your head in the sand. Many of us took Obama to task because of Rick Warren, why wouldn't we take the Repub candidate to task for how his faith informs his politics? Makes no sense to me.

[shaayecanaan]

82. Sort of like how conservatives wanted to ask JFK...

if he intended to take orders from the Pope.

[cr8tvlde]

108. Well here's the inconvenient answer to that...

like a political person and an American Citizen, JFK answered it. I wasn't a catholic, didn't believe it was fair, but there it was.

In no uncertain terms. He addressed it like a man ... asked and answered. People believed him and respected him for it.

Waiting for Mittens to do same and until he does, forget the liberal apologies and and niceties of "being bipartisan" and "being fair". This is freaking politics. This is about who is going to run our nation ... Joseph Smith...Salt Lake City? But if he disavows those beliefs, I'll give him a pass.

[shaayecanaan]

115. I think that its grubby politics either way...

I am more than happy to judge Mitt Romney by what Mitt Romney has done or said, but not by what Joseph Smith has done or said.

Should we start judging Jews by what Moses said, or Protestants by what Luther said?

[cr8tvlde]

152. Absolutely we should. Because Jesus talked about the Social Welfare and Moses The Law

and its not judgment...god god...it's their professed creed and they live by it. An atheist doesn't have on and is certainly judged for that. But try electing a practicing Muslim or Buddhist. Not going to happen.

They can't invoke the name of Jesus and call themselves Christians and throw mud in the face of everything He said. That's not judgment. That's fact. Jesus said, By their works ye shall know them. And by God, he was right. He said you can't go into the temple and profess religioun, then go out and do what you damn well please (paraphrased). He said if you've committed adultry in your heart, it has already happened. Ask Jimmy Carter. Silly person, they had a heyday with that one. The Law was replaced with The True Spirit or Kingdom of God that is within us...not without us.

I'm tired of posting the Beatitudes, and the other New Laws/red words of Jesus. They don't apply in our current political greedy and power hungry climate, except to a few Liberals and not for religious purposes, but for humanitarian values. Not Progressives...Liberals. We even let them have The Word. A Progressive is a moderate. A Liberal is proudly to The Left of Center, even though that has swung extremely to The Right. I just wish other Liberals would step forward and help reset the dialogue/continuum.

The Jews follow the OT and the Torah. The Muslims follow the Quran. The RWers certainly throw that in their face on a regular basis...and Obama's for that matter...and he's not even a Muslim.

Most current fundamentalist RW "Christians" are, in practice, Old Testament barbarians...especially on gay rights...which was the world view in 1500BC or such. That's the ONLY place in our Christian Bible that it's death penalty/turning-into-stone events (Lot's wife) for gays or gay supporters...or stoning aberrant children, or disobeying wives, for that matter. Liberal Christians have learned tolerance and individual interpretation of Christ and have evolved.

[justiceischeap]

127. Yes, but JFK wasn't a Bishop of his church

whereas Romney is. There are few things the Catholic church will kick you out of the church for, one of the things the LDS church will kick you out for is not taking orders from the Prophet. I, for one, want this question asked and answered. I think all American's have a right to know whether the President of the United States is getting marching orders from someone referred to as the Prophet. I felt the same way about Obama when he ran, I wanted to know if his religious beliefs would inform his policy, like Bush's did. As a member of the LGBTQ community and a woman, I feel I have more than a passing interest in how religion informs the most powerful person governing our country.

[shaayecanaan]

160. Then ask him the question...

if you want to ask what he thinks of LGBT issues, ask him. Don't simply presume that Joseph Smith speaks for him.

The word "prejudice" comes from the verb, "pre-judge".

[Auggie]

53. I'm in

Fuck them

[Meiko]

57. Why would you want to

waste your time going after his religion when the man has so many other obvious shortcomings, being a liar comes to mind immediately. You are certainly free to approach this any way you see fit I just don't think starting a religious war is the way to go. IMHO

[N]o religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

This statement is simple and straight-forward, and applies to all offices in the entire United States, both state and federal. The clause simply means that no public position can be required to be held by any one of any religious denomination. It would be unconstitutional for there to be a requirement that the President by Lutheran, or even for the mayor of a small town to be Christian. Likewise, it would be unconstitutional for a law to forbid a Jew or Muslim from holding any office in any governmental jurisdiction in the United States. (This having been said, it should be noted that several state constitutions do have a religious test — specifically, they deny office to anyone unwilling to acknowledge God or a Supreme Being.)

http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_reli.html

[trumad]

58. Please understand---

I can multi-task with the best of them.

His religion is one of the many things I will attack him on.

[Meiko]

99. Good one

I hear ya'

[EFerrari]

59. You mean, besides the fact that it is the easiest way to split the Repubican base?

Besides that?

[Meiko]

100. I had not really considered that

but you make a good point. I don't believe that President Obama would go after his opponent based on religious beliefs. I suppose it would depend on how low Romney is willing to stoop. The President is not going to just stand by and take any lip that's a given.

[jeff47]

79. We are capable of multi-tasking. (nt)

[cr8tvlde]

150. Do you honestly believe that a practicing Muslim with the name of Ahmed or even Buddhist

would even make it to the Republican Primary? Even if he espoused the separation of church and state? It's an ingenuous smokescreen. However, if so, you're living in an imaginary world.

This is not about forbidding. Please be clear. It is about the makeup of a candidate, in totality. And, again, anyone that believes a leader in ANY religion can separate himself and his views from said religion, just ask the RW Christians, is building castles in the sand. Mormons consider themselves and their religioun higher than the State.

Have you watched Sister Wives? I have only read of it in horror. It's on TV, FFS. Have you seen any arrests for bigamy? It's making a ton of money and I'll bet, with four wives he needs it. (no that's not bigotry, it's fact.) I don't know how many kids they have between the five of them. But they make "Two Mommies", that's the key word for lesbians, look pretty tame. Imagine having FOUR mommies. What do the kids call the other three?

They are just called Fundamental Mormons. Now where have we heard that before? The RWers, The Taliban, the "America is a Christian (still acting out the Old TEstament) Nation"...it abounds.

Count me OUT.

Disclaimer: I believe everyone has the right to practice their religion or not practice any religion. But if they are going to affect my life and that of my family for decades, then it applies to me and creates within me the responsibility to do due diligence and make my decision and influence others based on that decision.

Get off the Bigotry Trap set by the Republicans.

[Initech]

64. Amen!!!!

There was a great point made on Bill Maher the other day about Romney firing that gay aid because he was pressured by Bryan Fischer - the American "Family" (term used loosely) Association on his radio program. And the point was that if Mitt can't even stand up to the most bigoted, hateful, extremist douchebags like Bryan Fischer - how the hell do you expect him to be able to handle muderous dictators?

[patrice]

65. K&R

[Bake]

69. If I could kick this 10000 times I would!

It's ON!!!



Bake

[shawn703]

70. I'll attack him because he's a Mormon

Primarily because I don't want a cuckoo religious fuckwad of any stripe running this country again. Bush listened to God on foreign policy and we're still paying for that one.

"One of the delegates, Nabil Shaath, who was Palestinian foreign minister at the time, said: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I am driven with a mission from God'. God would tell me, 'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did."

Mr Bush went on: "And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, 'Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East'. And, by God, I'm gonna do it.""

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usa

[zeemike]

71. Well I stand on the other side of this.

I think it is a political mistake to make a big deal out of it....it just plays into the narrative of "the godless left" and the "godless socialist" which they have been spreading for years now...and for what?
Much better not to mention it and let them bring it up when they need some more material reasons to vote against him or not at all.
But if you start harping on this the ones who are Christians and who might vote for Obama will become defensive and sympathetic to Romney.
His religion should only be used is very subtle ways and never directly attacked.

I will probably catch hell for this but it needs to be said...and I see I am not alone in that.

[EFerrari]

74. No hell to catch.

The wingnut "Christians" aren't even sure that Mormons ARE Christians. So, they likely won't try to pull that one or, at least their hearts won't be in it.

[zeemike]

76. And that is why we should never be the ones to bring it up.

Just attacking is not a good thing....you attack where the defences are the weakest and avoid the places that you might stumble.

[spanone]

72. k&r...

[ThoughtCriminal]

73. There's just one thing that makes me hesitate.

I've lived in Arizona for almost 30 years and have had my share of dealing with right-wing crazy LDS. They are over the top nuts (but no worse than the Southern Baptists I grew up with in Alabama).

Here's the one thing that should remind us that not every LDS politician is a far-right crazy:

Mo Udall

I sure miss him.

[KoKo]

78. "Mo" or Morris Udall...from Wiki for those who don't know...

Early life

Udall was born in St. Johns, Apache County, Arizona, a son of Louisa (née Lee) and Levi Stewart Udall. He lost his right eye to a friend's pocket knife at the age of 6, while the two were attempting to cut some string, and wore a glass eye for the rest of his life.[1] He attempted to enlist in the Army early in World War II, and almost succeeded, by covering his glass eye each time he was told to alternate during the eye exam. After he was medically cleared, another potential enlistee complained that he had been medically rejected for flat feet, while Udall had been cleared with a blind eye. This caused the examiners to retest Udall under closer scrutiny, and he was rejected. Later, medical standards changed and Udall served in the Army until the end of the war.

Later, Udall attended the University of Arizona, where he was a star basketball player and a member of Sigma Chi Fraternity. He played for the Denver Nuggets for one year following graduation as well as attending the University of Denver school of law, and then returned to the University of Arizona for law school, where he graduated in 1949.
Political career

In 1961, his brother Stewart Udall, the congressman for Arizona's second congressional district, located in the southern portion of the state, was appointed Secretary of the Interior in the Kennedy administration. Mo Udall won a special election for his brother's vacant seat by only 2,000 votes. He won the seat in his own right in 1962, and was reelected 13 more times. He only faced one close race, in 1978, when he was held to 52 percent of the vote.

During his tenure in Congress, Udall was best-noted for his championing of environmental causes. He was also known for his devotion to campaign finance reform and the welfare of Native Americans. He authored the Alaska Lands Act of 1980, which doubled the size of the National Park System,[2] as well as legislation to protect archaeological finds, enacting civil service reform, legalizing Indian casinos, and providing for the safe disposal of radioactive waste.

In 1979, Udall was diagnosed with incurable Parkinson's disease. While he managed to stay in Congress for another 12 years, by 1991 his health had deteriorated to the point where he was forced to resign from Congress on May 4. He died on December 12, 1998 of complications from his illness.
Presidential campaign
Question book-new.svg This unreferenced section requires citations to ensure verifiability.
This article may contain original research. Please improve it by verifying the claims made and adding references. Statements consisting only of original research may be removed. More details may be available on the talk page. (August 2008)

In 1976, he ran for the Democratic nomination for President as a liberal alternative to Jimmy Carter, the former Governor of Georgia. Carter had gone from obscure maverick to front runner after a string of early caucus and primary victories, beginning in Iowa and New Hampshire. At the time of the Wisconsin primary in April, most of the original 10 candidates had dropped out, leaving Udall, Senator Henry "Scoop" Jackson of Washington, Governor George Wallace of Alabama, and Carter. Udall looked set to win the primary and as the returns ticked in, it looked like he would win it. This might have slowed down the Carter momentum. Udall was projected the winner, exclaiming "Oh, how sweet it is". But as the election night progressed, Carter began chipping away at Udall's lead, eventually going into the lead.

Some newspapers actually proclaimed Udall the winner because of his lead the night before, not unlike the famous incident in the 1948 presidential election, in which the headlines of the Chicago Tribune erroneously proclaimed "Dewey defeats Truman."

Carter's win was by 1%, which was no more than 7,500 votes. He won 37% to Udall's 36%, gaining one more convention delegate than Udall. Despite the small margins, Carter got the headlines and a further boost to his momentum, pulling away from Udall and the other candidates. In the end, Udall finished second in the New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Wisconsin, New York, Michigan, South Dakota, and Ohio primaries, and won the caucuses in his home state of Arizona, while running even with Carter in the New Mexico caucuses. Udall finished a distant second place to Carter at the Democratic National Convention, where his name was placed in nomination by Archibald Cox, and Udall's speech received great applause from his supporters.

During the Michigan primary, the Carter campaign had Coleman Young, the mayor of Detroit, accuse Udall of racism for belonging to the LDS church, which at the time, did not allow blacks to serve in the church's priesthood (since changed in 1978 by LDS Church President, Spencer W. Kimball). Young's attack was at least somewhat unfair, since Udall had been a longtime critic of that church policy, and had ceased being an active member because of it. Carter's subsequent sweeping of the black vote in the Michigan primary was key to his crucial and narrow victory in Michigan.

Udall supported Senator Edward Kennedy's challenge to President Carter in 1980, and Kennedy won the Arizona caucuses, one of only three wins for Kennedy in the west. Udall delivered the keynote speech at the 1980 Democratic convention, which was a typically witty Udall speech. Udall considered running for president again in 1984, but his illness kept him on the sidelines. At the convention that summer, Udall introduced his old foe, President Carter.

BEST to read MORE at WIKIPEDIA (for what it's worth) at.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mo_Udall

[sarcasmo]

75. Kick.

The right won't lay off shit, neither should we.

[Curmudgeoness]

77. I have to agree wholeheartedly.

I have said it in the past....we are often too nice and it hurts us. They swift-boat us and we try to play well with others.

You are right-----fuck that, there is too much at stake!

[Tuesday Afternoon]

80. FUCKING A-MEN!!

[siligut]

83. Excellent!

They tried to forestall this by saying Obama would go after Mitt's religion. Mormonism needs to see the light of day and not the soft serve they have been feeding the public for years now.

[TBF]

85. Word, Trumad. K&R nt

[Maven]

86. Hell to the yes.

[Zax2me]

87. Remember the posts from a few months ago, afraid of a nasty campaign ahead?

guess it has arrived.
Just the social, economic facts please.
It will be more than enough.

[trumad]

90. No!

Let me reiterate that=---Fuck no!

[madokie]

92. Kick that SOB's ass and take his money too

then send him off with a one way ticket to where the fuck he wants to go and then leave his sorry ass there

[HiPointDem]

93. Then don't bitch when they do it to you.

[LiberalAndProud]

101. They will whether we bitch or not.

I believe in these times, with the absolutely insane religious dogma being touted across the board (e.g. END TIMES) we had best be looking closely at religious beliefs and measure to what extent that belief system will sway policy. I think JFK's speech was brilliant and necessary. It is important to know how heavily church leadership will weigh in on national policy. It isn't religious bigotry to include a candidate's religion in the discussion.

Obama will do as he will, be I think it's a huge mistake not to include the institutional church in the dialogue, and I don't think I'm in the minority with this viewpoint.

[HiPointDem]

103. My point is rather that you (collective you) look stupid complaining when you're doing the same.

[LiberalAndProud]

119. That may be true.

I (personal I) don't remember complaining. I think it is a valid and important conversation to have with our candidates.

I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute; where no Catholic prelate would tell the President -- should he be Catholic -- how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote; where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference, and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the President who might appoint him, or the people who might elect him.

...

I believe in an America that is officially neither Catholic, Protestant nor Jewish; where no public official either requests or accept instructions on public policy from the Pope, the National Council of Churches or any other ecclesiastical source; where no religious body seeks to impose its will directly or indirectly upon the general populace or the public acts of its officials, and where religious liberty is so indivisible that an act against one church is treated as an act against all.

vs.

Santorum said "makes me throw up."

"Because the first line, first substantive line in the speech says, 'I believe in America where the separation of church and state is absolute," the former Pennsylvania senator said. "You bet that makes you throw up."

Romney should have to address this issue. I would be intrigued to hear how much influence the Mormon Church might have on national policy if he were to be elected. You seem, to think it's impolite to ask the question. I think it's negligent not to.

On edit: Food for thought?

http://www.edgeboston.com/index.php?ch=news&sc=&sc3=&id=80701

"Bishop Woodbury stated that the reasons for the excommunication would be that I am ’going in a different direction’ from the church, and I am in ’opposition’ to the Mormon Church."

Added Callahan, "The bishop gave the analogy that if I were a member of a gay and lesbian organization and collected signatures on a petition supporting Proposition 8, that organization would probably kick me out, and suggested that the Mormon Church was about to do that to me now."

[HiPointDem]

144. i don't object to discussing those issues. i object to mocking discussions of magic underwear.

[LiberalAndProud]

159. I find that I agree with you.

Mocking religious symbols is probably bad form. But I still laugh at this.



Does that make me a bad person?

[HiPointDem]

161. My criticism is of people who think mocking religious symbols or practices = political commentary.

Not of people who think religious symbols are funny per se. IOW, I have no problem with people who mock religion for itself. Just with those who make mockery of religion campaign material.

Criticizing a candidate's church for discriminatory policies or use of public monies or any of a host of actual issues where their religion has some bearing on public policy is not the same thing as laughing at magic underwear.

[Moostache]

94. K&R as many times as possible! (n/t)

[GoneOffShore]

95. Time to stop playing nice.

And for those who have said we should leave Mitt's magic underwear alone: Thank you for your concern.

[LiberalAndProud]

96. Damn straight, Trumad.

Ignoring the infrastructure of a candidates' belief system is not a wise course of action. It's interesting to see who thinks it is.

[pa28]

97. We're not fighting a civic minded opponent.

These are pirates who have had the gloves off for 20 or 30 years. They want *everything*.

Once we've been totally and thoroughly beaten I don't think it will be much consolation to say "at least Democrats were better". Yeah. Maybe history will make a footnote about that.

[oldhippie]

98. No quarter. No mercy. nt

nt

[Zorra]

102. Agreed. No quarter. Let's kick some serious ass on these fascists. nt

[lumberjack_jeff]

105. He should be asked what he thinks about this

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-559808/Polygamist-underage-sex-cult-case-descends-farce-judge-struggles-control-lawyers-parents.html

His church sucks. Fuck 'em, and him.

Additional details on life at the ranch began to emerge as child welfare investigator Angie Voss testified.
She said that if one of the men fell out of favor with the FLDS, his wives and children would be reassigned to other men.
The children would then identify the new man as their father. Voss said that contributed to the problem of identifying children's family links and their ages.
Texas District Judge Barbara Walther struggled to keep order as she faced 100 lawyers in her 80-year-old Tom Green County courtroom and several hundred more participating over a grainy video feed from an ornate City Hall auditorium two blocks away.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-559808/Polygamist-underage-sex-cult-case-descends-farce-judge-struggles-control-lawyers-parents.html#ixzz1uuOqYWE7

[Aerows]

106. Me either

I'm neither kind nor gentle when it comes to politics, which is something that Democrats need to learn. You give a Republican an inch, they take a mile, and it is way past time for us as a party to get truly fierce with them and their destructive selfishness.

[cr8tvlde]

109. What is it about 4 new SCOTUS in their 70's People don't understand

...are busy being nice and understanding and polite and sooooooo trendy Liberal Democrats.

Where is Mother Jones? Where is Saul Alinsky? We have them huddling in terror from the Plutocrats.

Rise Up !!!

[Great Caesars Ghost]

110. We need to show no mercy.

I hate the fact some here say "Even though I disagree with him, he doesn't deserve that!" and bullshit like that. Wanna wish cancer on Romney, DO IT! Wanna wish (not threaten) a painful death on folks like Limbaugh, Palin, Beck, et al, DO IT! We need to start showing some backbone, flex some muscle, etc. Progressives have been held down for too long.

[bhikkhu]

111. The Mormon religion has serious "cult" problems, and a closet full of skeletons

...I have to agree with you.

Inasmuch as Romney's character is bought and paid for by that church, the whole rotten mess is fair game. It would be stupid to go into a campaign otherwise - they certainly aren't.

And many of the arguments to take it easy use the false equivalence of "Obama is a Kenyan Muslim = Romney is a Mormon". Not quite the same.

[Rain Mcloud]

114. Damn Straight!

32 years of failed policies,10's of trillions in debt and the most erosion of personal freedoms since Hitler seized power in Germany and now life begins at erection and Corporations are People?
Funkabunchathatshit!
Never waste an opportunity to call out a liar on their bullshit or broken promises,Where are the fucking jobs?

[stranger81]

116. From your lips to the Obama campaign's ears . . . .

May it be so. It's time we had the fighting Dems back!

[sarge43]

117. "....we need a plan of attack."

"I have a plan. Attack."

Thank you Josh

[OKNancy]

118. and that includes attacks on Bain

I even heard some Democrats on MSNBC say that "we" shouldn't attack him on this subject...

[boomerbust]

120. I wonder about Obama

After he was forced to quit his church in Chicago after the Jeremiah Wright flap.

[valerief]

121. Right. I heard Bill Press say the other day he didn't want to be like them, meaning Republicans.

That means we lose. That's not an option.

[12AngryBorneoWildmen]

122. Google 'Lying for the Lord'

A primer on Mormon values.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

123. yeah! Liberal scrupulosity about "the High Road" has a downside--

like, letting BULLIES punch us repeatedly in the face and hijack the public discourse for the last 20 years!


FUCK THAT, and it's about fucking time!!


(and I feel vindicated for my underwear thread!!!! )

[Enrique]

124. us being bigots won't hurt Romney

it will hurt us.

[trumad]

125. I'm not a fucking bigot...

I'm a fucking atheist.

[Enrique]

126. i'm a fucking athiest too

but I'm not a fucking hater.

[trumad]

128. Well--- if you take the tactic of turn the other cheek...

In 8 years the haters will dominate.

Do you want that?

[cr8tvlde]

140. This ^^^ when one can look at any of the principles of Jesus

The Golden Rule, Do Unto Others, and the Beatitudes and find any ...not all...just the attempt and recognition of The Real Gospel, and begin to behave as civilized folk, then I'll consider "the other cheek". We're also told to forgive 70 times 70, but seems it's only the Ds that try that one.

But sacrifice my children and grandchildren's future as they are already saddled with immeasurable debt, poor economic prospects and eternal war? Not on my watch. My answer is that our opponents are still cultural and religious barbarians/Lords of the Manor and have not even reached the consciousness and status of the fire and brimstone Old Testament Prophets, let alone The Good News....the red words in the bible...2,000 years ago.

[Zorra]

138. That's just wrong. So I'm a bigot for telling the truth by exposing the lies and insanity

of an organization that desires not only to deny some civil rights to all Americans, but began, funded, and promoted a movement that actually took civil rights away from many Americans?

No. I absolutely have the right to protect myself, my community, and my people from fascism. That does not make me a bigot.

Fifty-nine percent of Mormons nationwide identify themselves as Republicans, compared with 14 percent who say they prefer Democrats,

[cr8tvlde]

141. I keep hearing the accusation of "bigot" of Mormons ... WTF

and exactly what is bigoted about identifying someone's religion...especially one who is a church leader in a religion that demands missionaries to put in 2 years prosyletizing and converting. You can bet Mitt and his 4 sons have done that and that all his grandchihldren will do that.

It's a fact of his moral fiber and composition, even more so than his tax returns, but no one calls the B word when we demand to see his financial dealings and tax records, as every other candidate, are brought up and examined.

Of course he's prejudiced against gays, old hair cutting incident is just an inconvenient side fact. His religion formally shuts out gays and blacks into their "special" Temple and I believe women have special places to go so they don't "degrade" the holy men who rule. I don't think that has recently changed, if so, only minimally.

It's just a fact. It's who he is. And it's not bigoted to look into and ask him to explain how, in light of the teachings of his church many of whom are against the American democratic and social contract of the poeple, he would govern. It's not bigoted to discuss Newt's affairs and being on his third wife. It's fact and relates to his character.

Especially in this day and age, the public has a right to know and find out. Not to do so would be to shirk our duty as the opposing party...queasy or not...and if we cannot do due diligence...vetting, whatever, we deserve what we get, God help us.

[adigal]

130. I agree...we are always too nice, and they kick our teeth right down our throats

If his religion promotes bias or polygamy, it is fair game.

[cr8tvlde]

157. Ever watch Sister Wives? It's on cable. Mormon Propoganda?

They are now called Fundamental Mormons. It's on Wiki somewhere. Just in time for the Fundie RW and the Fundie Jihad and the Fundie Zionists.

[KansDem]

133. KnR

For not laying off shit...

[Bettie]

134. Good. K&R

Really, we need to worry less about being "nice" and "fair" and fight the way they fight.

[onager]

135. Agree!!! "Shoot back."

During the Clinton years, California Dem strategist Bob Mulholland came up with a great tactic to counter the constant GOP attacks on Bill Clinton.

Mulholland said he planned to drag every GOP "moral" skeleton out of the closet he could find - extra-marital affairs, abortions, closeted gays, etc. etc.

The California Democratic Party attacked Mulholland, with the usual BS about how we have to be "better than them" and stay on the "moral high ground."

Mulholland replied: "When I was in Vietnam with the 101st Airborne, I learned that when someone is shooting at you, you shoot back."

And there's also this good advice from James Carville: "If your opponent is drowning, throw that son-of-a-bitch an anvil."

[DonCoquixote]

136. We have been playing nice for 30 years

especially the last four. This is a WAR, and we must win or die.

[Plucketeer]

137. PER - FUCKING - ZACTLY!!!

It's time to KICK ASS and let them worry about taking names.

[cr8tvlde]

145. Carry the Battle to Them? Absolutely

They carried it to us. We just got to demand that our representatives understand that. In fairness, they have to get re-elected and need to KNOW how we feel. Many of our Democratic politicians, aka Blue Democrats and Moderate Democrats have had to move to the right for lack of Liberal Fortitude. I believe it is because the Left is afraid to "come out of the Liberal Closet".

True, mano-a-mano is not our preferred course and beneath a true Liberal, but the old saying is that when a thief comes into your house, and to coin a Tamron Hall (my latest heroine) phrase, This is My House. You can't insult me. Done. Next?.

We can start with saying to people...I am a Liberal. No, my heart doesn't bleed. I affirm The Good News. I believe in rights for all, even though Stephen Colbert handily informed us Jesus had nothing to say about gays. I believe in a social support network, not because people are lazy but because shit happens. I believe we should all pay our fair share, based on what God has seen fit to provide to us, through our labor. We are equal, but different. I am a Liberal and proud and pay my taxes for the above purpose. Bombing sand castles and brown people in countries most didn't know existed does not apply.

So therefore my "fight" will be to bring our "fighters home to their families and work on arranging or providing jobs, respect and a society created on helping re-establish America as a Great Experiment that Will Not Fail or Fall into Greed and Disgrace!

And lastly, I thank DU for providing a forum and community with folks who are or are beginning to evolve out of the Stone Age.

[CatWoman]

146. and you wonder why I love you so much

[trumad]

154. Love you too baby....

[zzaapp]

147. Socialism is the only chance we have

[HillWilliam]

148. I ain't layin' offa jackshit either

It was the Mormons who brought the fight to the LGBT community. It was Romney who made a public statement against s/s marriage KNOWING his grandpappy had twelve wives.

I was all for leaving him and his cult alone until THEY came after ME and MINE. It wasn't the other way around. So fuck them, hard.

[truebrit71]

149. Abso-Fucking-Lutely...

We've had four years of 'compromise' and look where we are....FUCK THAT NOISE!!!!

[DLevine]

155. K&R. n/t