So, we wage war on other countries for no reason and are suprised when our kids are murderers?

[mahina]

Thank God, the killers are exceptions, and our people are mostly peaceful, of course.

But we hold nobody accountable for sending us to WAR for no reason at all, and somehow expect young people to follow an ethical code that we, as a nation, have not followed?

Nuts.

I have no idea how to stop the killing, and I know we really must. The loss of not just life, but loving, brilliant, gifted, giving lives, is unfathomably huge for us as a people.

Stunning that there have been two more mass shootings since Charleston. Reading the news today, I don't really have a way to process this other than talking with you guys.

Has anyone heard any kind of reconcilation, peace building, healing processes?

[KingCharlemagne]

1. This society is pathologically sick. Gun violence is just one symptom of a public

health epidemic, in my opinion.

This society doesn't have the slightest interest in healing or reconciliation. If it had, 1 in 5 children would not experience hunger at least once per month.

This society is pathologically sick.

[Betty Karlson]

41. Or maybe a small group deliberately MAKES it sick?

Sick people are easily manipulated. That's why torure was invented: to make people feel sick and weak and distressed.

You may call it an epidemic, but I'm starting to contemplate the use of two other words: criminal neglect.

[mahina]

46. I never really bought a conspiracy theory that we were being dumbed down until recently,

but it's looking that way to me these days. Not all parties, just that there has been a coordinated and committeed force determined to do so. They persuaded enough people not to spend 'their' taxes on education, and undermined unions.

We'll have to get ourselves out of it.

[Betty Karlson]

48. Precisely: a determined resolve to commit a crime doesn't require a vast number of conspirators.

Just a vast amount of money to mislead those not involved in the conspiracy.

[JI7]

2. Roof is not a victim and what he did has nothing to do with iraq

[mahina]

3. I never said he was a victim, I don't think he is a victim. That's the farthest thing from my mind.

Wherever you got that idea, I suggest you put it right back there.

[JI7]

4. "somehow expect young people to follow an ethical code that we, as a nation, have not followed"

which you think is nuts

[mahina]

5. I'm not saying he is a victim. Would you like me to restate that?

I never said, and don't think, that the man is a victim.

Good heavens.

Go look for perceived slights from passing motorists or something. I'm not interested.

[JI7]

7. but you put some of the blame on things like the war in iraq ?

[mahina]

9. F u cn rd ths mssge

please see posts above.

I am calling attention to an inconsistency.

Who was it who said, "I'm not saying you don't know what you're talking about, but I don't know what you're talking about"?

Again, I do not think that Dylan Roof is a victim. Whatever joy you get from looking for someone to bash, look elsewhere.

Don't know how we've both been here so long and I've never had the pleasure of your acquaintance.

Charmed I'm sure.

Ta.

[FlatBaroque]

11. You will have a far more productive conversation

talking to a mop.

[mahina]

12. No joke!

[U4ikLefty]

16. You were alerted on.

On Sun Jun 21, 2015, 08:41 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

You will have a far more productive conversation
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6878542

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This is a personal insult posted for no other reason than to insult,it was inserted to make fun of someone's intellect. It's childish.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Jun 21, 2015, 08:58 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[FlatBaroque]

17. LOL

Thanks.

[U4ikLefty]

18. no prob

looks like their fainting couch is full these days

[mahina]

19. How bizzare.

At least the jury's verdict makes sense.

Thanks for posting.

[mahina]

20. I appreciated your post.

You didn't need to engage around the strangeness but you did; thank you.

[davidn3600]

21. Kids are not born racist. Where do you think he learned it from?

When this guy was arrested, I saw many people making rape jokes, making homosexual jokes....not on DU, but on other LIBERAL forums. The stuff these so-called progressives were saying was so vile I can't repost it here.

We are a sick society that seems to get off on other people suffering. We raise our kids in this environment of violence, hate, and vengeance. We love war. We love torture. We cheer the death penalty. We have so much hate and division all over society. Racism and hate will continue to propagate down from one generation to another.

Society has to change.

[JI7]

28. he said why he did what he did and it was because he was a racist like the ones this country had

for over a 100 years .

[morningfog]

22. He came of age while we were killing innocent brown people as evildoers.

[JI7]

27. so why didn't he join the military ? because none of it has anything to do with

what he did which is hating black people which certian people have always done . especially in certain areas where they still can't get over the civil war loss.

[morningfog]

32. The point is not that the Iraq War was the cause of his hate or his actions.

The point is that growing up in a culture which devalues the lives of "others" -- read those with darker skin -- contributes to the hate of "the other" in their neighborhood. If one is taught to hate and then sees their country hold a vote to kill a million innocent darker skinned people as a matter of foreign policy, it is a shorter step for that hate-filled person to murder innocent black people here.

[JI7]

33. innocent black people were being killed in the US long before Iraq, Vietnam etc

innocent native americans and blacks were being killed before all of that.

in the US white people's hatred of black people is a problem in itself , especially in certain parts of the country which still longs for certain days gone by .

[daleanime]

6. K&R.....

[AtomicKitten]

8. No candidate except Bernie is prepared to change the paradigm of perpetual war.

We are stealing the lives of children in the ME, literally and figuratively.

Also by failing to prosecute the perpetrators of torture, we have failed to reinforce the fact that torture is illegal as well as immoral. Now half the nation think the brutality is okay.

[mahina]

44. I'm sure Bernie won't get sucked in to another war.

With the Bush/Walker/Paul/Christie/Santorum?clown car, it's just a countdown to the next war. As if these will ever end. As if two or three or four wars or however many we're even fighting now is not enough.

[damnedifIknow]

10. Not setting a good example for sure

A majority of Americans think that the harsh interrogation techniques used on terrorism suspects after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks were justified, even as about half of the public says the treatment amounted to torture"

In general, 58 percent say the torture of suspected terrorists can be justified “often” or “sometimes.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/new-poll-finds-majority-of-americans-believe-torture-justified-after-911-attacks/2014/12/16/f6ee1208-847c-11e4-9534-f79a23c40e6c_story.html

[nationalize the fed]

13. k/r

[mahina]

15. I read you.

I live in those distractions too, and sadly, can't disagree w a word you wrote.

[bhikkhu]

23. Your sentiment is good, but the point isn't

A kid rotten with racist hate kills people...has nothing to do with Iraq, nothing to do with "war on christianity", or anyone else's pet projects. I think the act speaks for itself, and turning it into things it isn't is one way we render our responses ineffective and beside the real point.

[mahina]

25. OK, your view is your business,

we can all see things in context, or not.

Peace to you.

[PowerToThePeople]

26. I think the point is

that we, as a nation, justify murder for whatever fucking reason we want, valid or not. It is applauded my much of the population. This mindset permeates the national mindset in many facets. It could very well be a factor in why this individual thought he was justified in his actions.

[JI7]

29. which nation doesn't do that ? most nations have done fucked up things

[mahina]

31. No, not really.

Chile under Pinochet, the Congo under King Leopold, China under Mao, internally, but mostly, no, most nations don't.

If we love this country, we need to hold our leaders to the ideals we stand for. Can't really see the sense in your post. s.

[JI7]

34. haha, internally doesn't count ? how black people are treated by law enforcement doesn't count ?

i'm asking you which country sets a good example for it's citizens which in turn means their citizens don't harm others ?

[mahina]

35. Again, I never said that. I said the opposite.

To your question, which you stated here for the first time, I'd encourage you to dust off your history books.

[mahina]

36. There are a lot of people on this board with whom I don't agree whom I am happy to discuss

matters with. We learn from each other and determine not who is right, but what is right. You know- disagreeing without being disagreeable. Civil discourse.

And then there's you.

[JI7]

37. so which country ?

[mahina]

38. Are you suggesting that invading other countries for no reason is standard and acceptable?

I am not interested in teaching you world history.

You are tiresome and irritating and I am not going to learn anything from you, no matter how long we communicate.

[JI7]

39. if you want to teach why not tell me a nation of the country(s) ?

[SaranchaIsWaiting]

24. I sadly agree. Violence at home is so apropo to oppose,, but voting for wars is

okie dokie.

I can't accept that.

[WDIM]

30. Ive been saying this for days.

Now is the time to address all violence in our society especially the violence perpetrated by our own government. It is complete hypocrisy for our president to speak about innocent victims when innocent victims are killed everyday by bombs made in the US.

I even did a post to try to start dialogue about this and it went completely ignored. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026871674

[mahina]

43. Couldn't agree more, sadly.

Not completely ignored

Consider yourself blessed not to have gotten into a battle of the electrons with a bonehead!

[Betty Karlson]

40. Throw in some military-sponsored video-games.

We deliberately allow our children to be condition into callosity, and we tell them that moral decisions are easy: there is a bad man - and he is always darker-skinned than you - and you must fight him, and fight the men and women around him.

When Fox tried to undermine (then) senator Obama's first campaign for the presidency, they increased the darkness of his skin in the pictures they used...

And our school system(s) all seem to train for compliance, not critical thinking or creative thinking even. Live in the problem not in the solution.

[mahina]

42. Exactly.

I know we'll find a path through it, though I can't see it from here.

[Betty Karlson]

45. Let's walk together then.

If we can't find a path, a group can pave the way just by walking.

I think some of the candidates have suggested as much.

[mahina]

47. I'm in

!

[L0oniX]

49. It's just some "folks" killing some "folks". As long as it isn't our "folks" it's all good.

This country thrives off of war. Bomb and missile makers can send their kids to college because of war. It's a jobs thing. We've made it normal and comfortable to have war. We don't see our "folks" bloodied and coming home in caskets. At least we do see how our vets get treated afterwards. People who think war has a minimal affect on our society should look at the militarized pigs shooting unarmed people. IMO you can't have a country perpetually at war and not have it affect attitudes on killing. Demonizing the enemy is standard psych in the military so no wonder "folks" are also demonized for their race back home. There's just too many connections between war and its affect here at home to deny it has an real affect on what can cause murder.

[Romulox]

50. No! That's different! nt

[Nye Bevan]

51. I have a feeling that Roof would still have been a murderous racist regardless of our Iraq policy.

I realize that folks are struggling for explanations but I don't think blaming US foreign policy is really on the mark here.

[pinboy3niner]

52. I guess we'll have to cancel the subversion plot, then