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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsShe Did It: South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley Calls for Removal of Confederate Flag
South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley in a Monday, June 21 afternoon press conference says the Confederate flag should be removed from the grounds of the state capitol. Haley by calling for the divisive symbol removal reverses her initial position to keep the flag, amid growing calls for it to be removed.Today we are here in a moment of unity in our state, without ill will, to say its time to move the flag from the Capitol grounds, Haley said to applause. My hope is that by removing a symbol that divides us, we can move forward in harmony and honor the nine blessed souls that are now in heaven, she said.
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calimary
(81,265 posts)I'm glad she finally came around. But she did kinda have to be dragged to it by a rising tide of public opinion. Her first instincts were her true ones. Her first reaction was to stand by it. It took this massacre - a MASSACRE - to drag her out of the GOP bubble.
She specifies "it's time to move the flag from the Capitol grounds." Move it to WHERE? Over to the next block where it won't seem so directly offensive? Outta sight, outta mind? EVERY Dixie Swastika needs to be taken down. From WHEREVER it hangs. Not just the one near the state capitol.
So we'll see.
knightmaar
(748 posts)... it was the public outcry after the massacre.
Sad, that.
calimary
(81,265 posts)She was dragged to it. She didn't find her way there just by a personal and quite logical response to the massacre. If it had been up to her, she would have left it in place and not come out - several days later - to call for its removal. If you'll recall, it was NOT her first reaction. It was brought up very quickly after the massacre and she demurred. THAT was her true feeling. Otherwise she would have blurted out, right then, THAT WEDNESDAY NIGHT, that "YES. You know, that's a very good idea. It's unfortunate that it comes after such a horrible tragedy here in Charleston, but this is a perfect time to take that step - away from the past and into the present and future. We need to send a signal that WE are NOT THAT, and THAT is NO LONGER who we are. It's a hurtful symbol, it hurts people, it represents something very ill in our past, and we need to move forward - AWAY from that part of our past. It's long past time."
Now, imagine if she'd said THAT. Or something like that. But she didn't. She didn't grab that very significant moment to lead the change. She hemmed and hawed and it's our heritage and it's a meaningful symbol to so many of our people and we just need to grieve and this is not the time and blah blah blah. Two-step, side-step, cha-cha-cha.
But if she HAD said that, straight off the bat, when this issue was just starting to percolate and the calls for that hate-rag to be removed had just started, THEN I'd be praising her. But, as with jebbie-boy, taking all week to fart around and hem and haw and tap-dance around whether he would have done the same thing his dry-drunk brother did in Iraq, it took her from Wednesday night to Monday morning - FIVE DAYS - to get there. Doin' the two-step, side-step, cha-cha-cha.
It seems like a no-brainer to us. Certainly seems that way to me. There was no other decision possible. But she danced around it and avoided it for days. She gets no pass from me.
And did anybody notice reince priebus there in that gaggle behind her, too? Interesting that he seemed to kinda hide even as he stood in that group. In the live coverage, you couldn't even see him behind her, from the camera angle, unless she moved a little while talking at the mic, and at that, we only saw about half of his face. Then also in this big group shot that they all posed for afterwards, you really had to search for him because he was STILL standing mostly behind somebody else.
Phony. That's how it strikes me. Just for appearances. Just a veneer. If HE had really wanted to make a statement, he would have positioned himself in the front row by Jim Clyburn.
I don't trust it for a moment. And I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a move bubbling up even now - to wait it out for awhile til the heat dies down and they can start bringing the Dixie Swastika back out into the open again. Wouldn't surprise me. These people do NOT want to give up on it. This is another one of their "sincerely-held beliefs." And they won't give it up without a fight. I wouldn't be surprised if they wait on it in the state legislature til December and January, when they think the heat's died down, and then don't get enough votes to have the damn thing removed. And then it'll be shrug, throw up yer hands, and say "well, guess not. Hey we tried. We're so sorry. It's over. Time to move on. Next!"
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)One small step for the oppressed.
If you happen to see the speech, note the man to the left of the gov...
He is Rep. Clayburn. He has overcome. The gov hugged him first when she was done.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Good Work Indeed!
struggle4progress
(118,282 posts)shenmue
(38,506 posts)no matter how the crazies on the right try to frighten her.
Just a thought - I don't think she likes the idea, but she's probably scared of what may happen if she keeps it.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)And let's not forget the Political Pressure of the Moment. Either way, it must be removed to honor the life of State Senator & Rev. Clementa Pinckney and the other 8 victims of the AME Massacre.
shenmue
(38,506 posts)I bet some clown assholes are still going to try to protest. Look for some Tea Party weirdos to show up with more flags and shit.
And watch them get run out of town by the National Guard.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Roof would have murdered those people regardless.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)not only condones it but is expressing it.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)underthematrix
(5,811 posts)Terrorist dylann roof was seen in photos wrapped in a confederate flag which was part of his hate narrative. I lived through the fifties and sixties so I know the meaning of the confederate flag - a symbol of hate
cui bono
(19,926 posts)And when people see that out there in public from the state, it reinforces in their mind that their horrible beliefs are right. And why wouldn't it? The govt has no business displaying that flag anywhere.
calimary
(81,265 posts)His writings and his photos - of himself with his hate-rag. It was absolutely a factor. Nothing like a battle flag to be your banner that you can raise on high to underscore your point. It was part and parcel of what happened. It IS a symbol of institutional racism and hatred, and of a very shameful time in America's history.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)KamaAina
(78,249 posts)LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)However, in RESPECT to State Senator and Rev. Clementa Pinckney the Flag MUST be REMOVED from the South Carolina Capitol Grounds!!!
From there, small changes start in the overall mindset of others.
iandhr
(6,852 posts)LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)iandhr
(6,852 posts)I was merely stating a fact.
calimary
(81,265 posts)Shame is a good thing sometimes. And useful. It was certainly effective here.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Far beyond.
And she is a very astute politician, SC politics are not for the faint of heart, particularly a minority woman.
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)A non-coward would have said this right away.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)I hope that she doesn't bring down the hate from the right on her head.
calimary
(81,265 posts)that many fewer votes she'd bring to the table as a possible running-mate. If she's too controversial, they're not gonna want that on that side of the aisle. They're trying to figure out how to grease their way back into the White House. Also by any means necessary. If the base gets pissed off about it, they'll rebel. They fancy themselves as rebels anyway. I mean, look at their romance with the Civil War. It's all about the glory of the rebel. The rebel is the patron saint - their raison d'etre. Probably makes 'em feel all powerful and vindicated and virile and stuff, especially when they get into costume and go out and play pretend Civil War.
"Yeah, but she took OUR FLAG away!" Let the pouting begin!
Liberalagogo
(1,770 posts)And it only took the cold blooded murder of nine people.
FU Haley.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)AlinPA
(15,071 posts)and bigotry is too strong there.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)of their state legislators must vote for removal....that sign above in a post with the allusion to hell freezing over before it happen is about right as to the chances of that flag coming down...she's not fooling me with her bullshit political move.
AlinPA
(15,071 posts)Monk06
(7,675 posts)Last edited Tue Jun 23, 2015, 04:36 AM - Edit history (1)
padlock on it for a reason. Haley is just taking a bullet in the shoulder for the team.
calimary
(81,265 posts)If they go for it now, it MIGHT succeed. But if they wait, or put it off, or somehow find a way to delay it for whatever procedural bullshit excuse the hate-rag defenders come up with, then it's a lost cause once again.
And considering that side of the aisle, remember the tendency we often see from there. It's consistently one of obfuscating, obstructing, dragging their heels any way they can think up to do so, and THEN, always trying to figure out HOW TO GET AROUND the rules, regs, restrictions, laws, whatever it is they don't like or feel like it's cramping their style somehow, or impinging upon their imagined concept of reckless, every-man-for-himself freedom-freedom. Maybe the flag might indeed be removed from that area around the state capitol, but will it also be removed from everywhere else in public?
Or will they just take it off that flag pole in front of the capitol building and hang it up elsewhere downtown?
It needs to be GONE.
Spazito
(50,338 posts)and that, imo, makes the removal much more likely.
From James Clyburn:
James E. Clyburn
✔
@Clyburn
Current SC law may require 2/3 vote to remove the Confed Battle flag but legislators could change that law w/ a simply majority. #takeitdown
1:47 PM - 21 Jun 2015
The Big Lie About What It Takes To Remove The Confederate Flag In South Carolina
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/06/22/3672428/big-lie-takes-remove-confederate-flag-south-carolina/
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)mnhtnbb
(31,388 posts)get rid of it. No one should fly it. It shouldn't be seen.
Typical Republican BS.
UTUSN
(70,691 posts)ZX86
(1,428 posts)I'm not impressed.
GoCubsGo
(32,083 posts)Had 9 people in our state been massacred by an unreformed Johnny Reb, and had the whole world been pointing their finger at that flag because of it, she'd still be silent about it.
Cha
(297,220 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)...several years ago when she SHOULD have done this!
Yesterday? I'm sure she did it reluctantly anyway.
SunSeeker
(51,554 posts)http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/21/charleston-shooting-senators-funeral-planned-amid-confederate-flag-protests
lovemydog
(11,833 posts)Especially on all who kept up the pressure to remove that crappy flag.