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LovingA2andMI

(7,006 posts)
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 06:15 PM Jun 2015

She Did It: South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley Calls for Removal of Confederate Flag

South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley in a Monday, June 21 afternoon press conference says the Confederate flag should be removed from the grounds of the state capitol. Haley by calling for the divisive symbol removal reverses her initial position to keep the flag, amid growing calls for it to be removed.

“Today we are here in a moment of unity in our state, without ill will, to say it’s time to move the flag from the Capitol grounds,” Haley said to applause. “My hope is that by removing a symbol that divides us, we can move forward in harmony and honor the nine blessed souls that are now in heaven,” she said.


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She Did It: South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley Calls for Removal of Confederate Flag (Original Post) LovingA2andMI Jun 2015 OP
It started to become unavoidable. calimary Jun 2015 #1
It wasn't the massacre that did it ... knightmaar Jun 2015 #35
My husband was on about that this morning, too. calimary Jun 2015 #36
One giant step for a SC governor RobertEarl Jun 2015 #2
Rep. Clayburn did Good Work Here!!! LovingA2andMI Jun 2015 #14
Good for her struggle4progress Jun 2015 #3
I hope she goes through with it shenmue Jun 2015 #7
That might be true... LovingA2andMI Jun 2015 #13
Yep shenmue Jun 2015 #18
I'll be glad to see the flag removed but I don't think it was a factor in the church shooting. Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2015 #4
It is a factor in that it lends credibility to racist thought and makes it appear that the state cui bono Jun 2015 #11
Thank You!!! ^^^^^ LovingA2andMI Jun 2015 #12
If that's not a signal to people that racism is okey-dokey, I don't know what is. cui bono Jun 2015 #28
Let me add my THANK YOU. underthematrix Jun 2015 #27
Yes, and when the state flies the flag they are endorsing this hatred and racism. cui bono Jun 2015 #29
It's absolutely a factor. If anyone needs further proof, just go to the gunman's own journal. calimary Jun 2015 #37
And now for the weather: KamaAina Jun 2015 #5
The shooter had a Confederate-flag license plate KamaAina Jun 2015 #6
We cannot stop this.... LovingA2andMI Jun 2015 #10
You can shame someone into doing the right thing iandhr Jun 2015 #8
Is there a problem in doing so? LovingA2andMI Jun 2015 #9
Of course not iandhr Jun 2015 #16
Nope. By any means necessary. calimary Jun 2015 #38
Haley has visions of going beyond mere governorship Fumesucker Jun 2015 #15
No props from me...she took too long... joeybee12 Jun 2015 #17
She did good Kalidurga Jun 2015 #19
Well, I'd welcome that. If she stirs up shit against herself from the far wrong, then it means calimary Jun 2015 #39
Aww... Liberalagogo Jun 2015 #20
Liberals always win.... Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2015 #21
She is bullshitting the media. It won't be removed. SC people will see to it that it stays. Hatred AlinPA Jun 2015 #22
2/3 of the members heaven05 Jun 2015 #25
2/3 is a tall order for SC. 2/3 will probably vote to keep it flying. AlinPA Jun 2015 #26
Plausable denial for when the SC legislators vote to keep racism alive and keep it there. There is a Monk06 Jun 2015 #34
That's a pretty high bar. Especially when it's majority GOP in that state legislature. calimary Jun 2015 #40
It only takes a majority vote to remove the 2/3rds requirement for the removal... Spazito Jun 2015 #43
Well, good. You pulled the knife back out 6" n/t jtuck004 Jun 2015 #23
Notice she says "move the flag from the Capitol grounds". She doesn't say mnhtnbb Jun 2015 #24
Uh, she couldn't do it sooner?!1 n/t UTUSN Jun 2015 #30
A day late and a dollar short. ZX86 Jun 2015 #31
Whatever. GoCubsGo Jun 2015 #32
Whoa.. she must have had Some Pressure! Cha Jun 2015 #33
Probably more like VP ambitions. NuclearDem Jun 2015 #41
Everyone is getting all excited and congratulating her? I'd have congratulated her.... George II Jun 2015 #42
Take it down NOW, before Pinckney mourners have to file past it on Wednesday. SunSeeker Jun 2015 #44
Good. lovemydog Jun 2015 #45

calimary

(81,265 posts)
1. It started to become unavoidable.
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 06:20 PM
Jun 2015

I'm glad she finally came around. But she did kinda have to be dragged to it by a rising tide of public opinion. Her first instincts were her true ones. Her first reaction was to stand by it. It took this massacre - a MASSACRE - to drag her out of the GOP bubble.

She specifies "it's time to move the flag from the Capitol grounds." Move it to WHERE? Over to the next block where it won't seem so directly offensive? Outta sight, outta mind? EVERY Dixie Swastika needs to be taken down. From WHEREVER it hangs. Not just the one near the state capitol.

So we'll see.

calimary

(81,265 posts)
36. My husband was on about that this morning, too.
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 10:59 AM
Jun 2015

She was dragged to it. She didn't find her way there just by a personal and quite logical response to the massacre. If it had been up to her, she would have left it in place and not come out - several days later - to call for its removal. If you'll recall, it was NOT her first reaction. It was brought up very quickly after the massacre and she demurred. THAT was her true feeling. Otherwise she would have blurted out, right then, THAT WEDNESDAY NIGHT, that "YES. You know, that's a very good idea. It's unfortunate that it comes after such a horrible tragedy here in Charleston, but this is a perfect time to take that step - away from the past and into the present and future. We need to send a signal that WE are NOT THAT, and THAT is NO LONGER who we are. It's a hurtful symbol, it hurts people, it represents something very ill in our past, and we need to move forward - AWAY from that part of our past. It's long past time."

Now, imagine if she'd said THAT. Or something like that. But she didn't. She didn't grab that very significant moment to lead the change. She hemmed and hawed and it's our heritage and it's a meaningful symbol to so many of our people and we just need to grieve and this is not the time and blah blah blah. Two-step, side-step, cha-cha-cha.

But if she HAD said that, straight off the bat, when this issue was just starting to percolate and the calls for that hate-rag to be removed had just started, THEN I'd be praising her. But, as with jebbie-boy, taking all week to fart around and hem and haw and tap-dance around whether he would have done the same thing his dry-drunk brother did in Iraq, it took her from Wednesday night to Monday morning - FIVE DAYS - to get there. Doin' the two-step, side-step, cha-cha-cha.

It seems like a no-brainer to us. Certainly seems that way to me. There was no other decision possible. But she danced around it and avoided it for days. She gets no pass from me.

And did anybody notice reince priebus there in that gaggle behind her, too? Interesting that he seemed to kinda hide even as he stood in that group. In the live coverage, you couldn't even see him behind her, from the camera angle, unless she moved a little while talking at the mic, and at that, we only saw about half of his face. Then also in this big group shot that they all posed for afterwards, you really had to search for him because he was STILL standing mostly behind somebody else.

Phony. That's how it strikes me. Just for appearances. Just a veneer. If HE had really wanted to make a statement, he would have positioned himself in the front row by Jim Clyburn.

I don't trust it for a moment. And I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a move bubbling up even now - to wait it out for awhile til the heat dies down and they can start bringing the Dixie Swastika back out into the open again. Wouldn't surprise me. These people do NOT want to give up on it. This is another one of their "sincerely-held beliefs." And they won't give it up without a fight. I wouldn't be surprised if they wait on it in the state legislature til December and January, when they think the heat's died down, and then don't get enough votes to have the damn thing removed. And then it'll be shrug, throw up yer hands, and say "well, guess not. Hey we tried. We're so sorry. It's over. Time to move on. Next!"

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
2. One giant step for a SC governor
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 06:23 PM
Jun 2015

One small step for the oppressed.

If you happen to see the speech, note the man to the left of the gov...

He is Rep. Clayburn. He has overcome. The gov hugged him first when she was done.

shenmue

(38,506 posts)
7. I hope she goes through with it
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 06:40 PM
Jun 2015

no matter how the crazies on the right try to frighten her.

Just a thought - I don't think she likes the idea, but she's probably scared of what may happen if she keeps it.

LovingA2andMI

(7,006 posts)
13. That might be true...
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 06:52 PM
Jun 2015

And let's not forget the Political Pressure of the Moment. Either way, it must be removed to honor the life of State Senator & Rev. Clementa Pinckney and the other 8 victims of the AME Massacre.

shenmue

(38,506 posts)
18. Yep
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 07:03 PM
Jun 2015

I bet some clown assholes are still going to try to protest. Look for some Tea Party weirdos to show up with more flags and shit.

And watch them get run out of town by the National Guard.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
4. I'll be glad to see the flag removed but I don't think it was a factor in the church shooting.
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 06:26 PM
Jun 2015

Roof would have murdered those people regardless.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
11. It is a factor in that it lends credibility to racist thought and makes it appear that the state
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 06:50 PM
Jun 2015

not only condones it but is expressing it.

underthematrix

(5,811 posts)
27. Let me add my THANK YOU.
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 09:18 PM
Jun 2015

Terrorist dylann roof was seen in photos wrapped in a confederate flag which was part of his hate narrative. I lived through the fifties and sixties so I know the meaning of the confederate flag - a symbol of hate

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
29. Yes, and when the state flies the flag they are endorsing this hatred and racism.
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 09:30 PM
Jun 2015

And when people see that out there in public from the state, it reinforces in their mind that their horrible beliefs are right. And why wouldn't it? The govt has no business displaying that flag anywhere.

calimary

(81,265 posts)
37. It's absolutely a factor. If anyone needs further proof, just go to the gunman's own journal.
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 11:04 AM
Jun 2015

His writings and his photos - of himself with his hate-rag. It was absolutely a factor. Nothing like a battle flag to be your banner that you can raise on high to underscore your point. It was part and parcel of what happened. It IS a symbol of institutional racism and hatred, and of a very shameful time in America's history.

LovingA2andMI

(7,006 posts)
10. We cannot stop this....
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 06:50 PM
Jun 2015

However, in RESPECT to State Senator and Rev. Clementa Pinckney the Flag MUST be REMOVED from the South Carolina Capitol Grounds!!!

From there, small changes start in the overall mindset of others.

calimary

(81,265 posts)
38. Nope. By any means necessary.
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 11:06 AM
Jun 2015

Shame is a good thing sometimes. And useful. It was certainly effective here.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
15. Haley has visions of going beyond mere governorship
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 06:56 PM
Jun 2015

Far beyond.

And she is a very astute politician, SC politics are not for the faint of heart, particularly a minority woman.

calimary

(81,265 posts)
39. Well, I'd welcome that. If she stirs up shit against herself from the far wrong, then it means
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 11:12 AM
Jun 2015

that many fewer votes she'd bring to the table as a possible running-mate. If she's too controversial, they're not gonna want that on that side of the aisle. They're trying to figure out how to grease their way back into the White House. Also by any means necessary. If the base gets pissed off about it, they'll rebel. They fancy themselves as rebels anyway. I mean, look at their romance with the Civil War. It's all about the glory of the rebel. The rebel is the patron saint - their raison d'etre. Probably makes 'em feel all powerful and vindicated and virile and stuff, especially when they get into costume and go out and play pretend Civil War.

"Yeah, but she took OUR FLAG away!" Let the pouting begin!

AlinPA

(15,071 posts)
22. She is bullshitting the media. It won't be removed. SC people will see to it that it stays. Hatred
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 08:30 PM
Jun 2015

and bigotry is too strong there.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
25. 2/3 of the members
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 09:08 PM
Jun 2015

of their state legislators must vote for removal....that sign above in a post with the allusion to hell freezing over before it happen is about right as to the chances of that flag coming down...she's not fooling me with her bullshit political move.

Monk06

(7,675 posts)
34. Plausable denial for when the SC legislators vote to keep racism alive and keep it there. There is a
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 12:17 AM
Jun 2015

Last edited Tue Jun 23, 2015, 04:36 AM - Edit history (1)

padlock on it for a reason. Haley is just taking a bullet in the shoulder for the team.

calimary

(81,265 posts)
40. That's a pretty high bar. Especially when it's majority GOP in that state legislature.
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 12:15 PM
Jun 2015

If they go for it now, it MIGHT succeed. But if they wait, or put it off, or somehow find a way to delay it for whatever procedural bullshit excuse the hate-rag defenders come up with, then it's a lost cause once again.

And considering that side of the aisle, remember the tendency we often see from there. It's consistently one of obfuscating, obstructing, dragging their heels any way they can think up to do so, and THEN, always trying to figure out HOW TO GET AROUND the rules, regs, restrictions, laws, whatever it is they don't like or feel like it's cramping their style somehow, or impinging upon their imagined concept of reckless, every-man-for-himself freedom-freedom. Maybe the flag might indeed be removed from that area around the state capitol, but will it also be removed from everywhere else in public?

Or will they just take it off that flag pole in front of the capitol building and hang it up elsewhere downtown?

It needs to be GONE.

Spazito

(50,338 posts)
43. It only takes a majority vote to remove the 2/3rds requirement for the removal...
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 12:43 PM
Jun 2015

and that, imo, makes the removal much more likely.

From James Clyburn:

James E. Clyburn

@Clyburn

Current SC law may require 2/3 vote to remove the Confed Battle flag but legislators could change that law w/ a simply majority. #takeitdown
1:47 PM - 21 Jun 2015

The Big Lie About What It Takes To Remove The Confederate Flag In South Carolina

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/06/22/3672428/big-lie-takes-remove-confederate-flag-south-carolina/

mnhtnbb

(31,388 posts)
24. Notice she says "move the flag from the Capitol grounds". She doesn't say
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 08:38 PM
Jun 2015

get rid of it. No one should fly it. It shouldn't be seen.

Typical Republican BS.

GoCubsGo

(32,083 posts)
32. Whatever.
Mon Jun 22, 2015, 10:16 PM
Jun 2015

Had 9 people in our state been massacred by an unreformed Johnny Reb, and had the whole world been pointing their finger at that flag because of it, she'd still be silent about it.

George II

(67,782 posts)
42. Everyone is getting all excited and congratulating her? I'd have congratulated her....
Tue Jun 23, 2015, 12:34 PM
Jun 2015

...several years ago when she SHOULD have done this!

Yesterday? I'm sure she did it reluctantly anyway.

SunSeeker

(51,554 posts)
44. Take it down NOW, before Pinckney mourners have to file past it on Wednesday.
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 01:53 AM
Jun 2015
In the evening a large crowd demonstrated against the presence of the Confederate flag on the grounds of the State House, where Pinckney’s casket is to lie in state. Calling the flag a symbol of hatred not heritage, the protesters chanted “take it down” in a rally that ended with a chorus of civil rights anthem “We Shall Overcome”.


http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/21/charleston-shooting-senators-funeral-planned-amid-confederate-flag-protests
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