And Another Thing !!! - The Next Time I Hear That We Are Not To Criticize Or Work Against Democrats.

[WillyT]

I might not have a pleasant response for you.

Because the twice elected DEMOCRATIC President of the United States, and standard bearer for the Democratic Party, just screwed his own party and it's most fervent supporters.

Labor, middle-class, environmentalists, and women... too name a few.

If anybody, as a Democrat, has criticized, shunned, worked against his own party and base more than Barack Obama did today... I don't know who it is.

So... I will be voting and working for Bernie Sanders. I will NOT be voting for Corporate Dems... PERIOD!

The President just showed us the way...

Related Link Below:

DULink: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026888820

[Broward]

1. We have no chance until we wrest the party from the Third Way corporatists.

[roguevalley]

40. what willyt said. 1 trillion percent.

[LoisB]

61. Second that.

[Rockyj]

118. AGREED!

[peacebird]

269. Yes, I will work & vote only for progressive Democrats. Not for corporatists. Not for DLC/3rd Wayers

And I will work hard to get Blue Dogs that voted FOR TPA each get primaried and replaced!

[zentrum]

84. Thom Hartmann....

…..has been trying to get us to take over the Democratic party from within, for years.

[George II]

144. "us"?

[PatrickforO]

194. Well, maybe not you...

[Enthusiast]

197. Certainly not him.

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[randys1]

277. He also says you MUST vote for WHOEVER the Dem candidate is so as to cause the least harm WHILE

YOU try to do exactly that

[cstanleytech]

104. You are forgetting something else, its called the Republican Party.

As long as they control enough of the state and federal government its going to be extremely difficult if not impossible to get anything done even if the party purge some of you are dreaming of should take place.

[Ed Suspicious]

113. Well, Obama is getting shit done really well now.

I guess if getting stuff done is the bar, then we should be getting in bed with the pukes every chance we get. Frankly, I don't give a fuck about getting stuff done. The only think I want to get done right now is to stop the bleeding.

[cstanleytech]

132. Good luck with that as the patient is suffering from both internal bleeding

as well as multiple lacerations all over.

[HooptieWagon]

251. Yes. Same results from being stabbed in the chest and stabbed in the back.

Time for We The People to stop supporting the corporatist Dems.

[sabrina 1]

133. That's true, which is why in the last two mid terms voters did NOT come out for Third Way/DLC

candidates, they did come out for Progressives who remained in Congress. The process of eliminating these Corporate Dems has already begun, AND the same voters who handed Dems everything in 2008 have now turned their skills to local and state elections, scoring many victories in the last mid term, finding and supporting actual Dems and winning a majority of those elections.

They also got Progressive Issues on their local ballots, having given up on DC and succeeded almost 100%. They will be building on those successes in every election from now on.

What was interesting was how the Party Leadership ignored all these successes and whined about the losses THEY were responsible for, instead of taking the message the voters sent them, they instead BLAMED THE VOTERS.

They just didn't get that voters will no longer hold their noses to vote for THEIR corporate candidates, we've seen how that worked out and as Bernie says so correctly, 'enough is enough'.

This betrayal will only energize activists, they very heart of the party though never acknowledged by the current leadership, to oust and replace those who betrayed them.

[emsimon33]

219. Yes and the media ignored the fact

When the right-wing "Christian" nuts did not support Bush I, the mediua was all over it.

[kath]

128. We MUST take our party back from all the Third Way, Corporatist, Trojan Horse, DINO pieces of shit

Somehow.

Enough already. fuck'em all.

[Enthusiast]

198. +1!

[HassleCat]

227. Yes, we must

And we must convince them they should support our candidate.

[Rex]

243. Not going to happen, they have no shame or souls and we do.

We will always give them a chance (when they are not forcing us) to make things better and all they will do is make things worse for the labor force. The Third Way owns the party thanks to the Big Bank backers.

I hope their greed comes back to bite them in the ass one day.

[Hekate]

2. Criticism is not the same as "damn dirty politics against other Democrats"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6887509

[rbnyc]

85. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6889008

[merrily]

90. Push polling a rumor that McCain has a love child is dirty politics. Posting at DU is posting at DU.

[Ed Suspicious]

114. Amen.

[davidpdx]

170. Really, what do you call the ongoing OP's that say if we choose Bernie Sanders we will

lose the election? No wait, only Sanders supporters "bash". My bad.

[Hekate]

172. What do I call them? Stupid. Really stupid. It's June, for God's sake. Everything will shake out...

.....in the primary season, and we have yet to have a single debate, panel discussion, or election. Why the DU fratricide?

[davidpdx]

173. The hypocrisy is that we shouldn't criticize Hillary Clinton because we might hurt her chances

in the GE. But you are right stupid is an excellent description.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

3. I stand with you, my dear WillyT. Period. n/t

[WillyT]

11. Thanks Peg !!!

[hifiguy]

32. I also.

Preach it, Willy!!

[WillyT]

34. :fistbump:

[merrily]

80. Coming from you, the first four words of your post speak volumes.

[hifiguy]

187. Indeed. The conscience of DU has spoken.

[Buenaventura]

203. So do I! Thank you! n/t

[Triana]

4. Damn right. Obama and Senate/House "Democrats" pissed off a LOT of people today.

I guess they figure they can afford it. Their corprat owners will prop them up - they don't need us.

[PowerToThePeople]

5. We are just slaves and cannon fodder. n/t

[daleanime]

24. +1

[Kalidurga]

6. I am a liberal first

with all that it implies. You could even call me an anarchist. I don't bow to corporate mouth pieces.

[99Forever]

7. Shoulder to shoulder Willy T.

My brother from another mother.

May today mark the beginning of the end of the corporate scum's thieving of OUR democracy.

[WillyT]

12. Agreed !!!

[newfie11]

8. I agree with you WillYT

[WillyT]

36. Thanks newfie11 !!!

[Sean23]

9. Foolish

So you won't be voting for Hillary if she wins the general election? You'd rather have a Republican? Good job, you're really making a statement!

[WillyT]

13. You're New Here... Welcome To The Maelstrom...

[zentrum]

91. Serious question, WillyT….

Last edited Wed Jun 24, 2015, 01:22 PM - Edit history (1)

……I'm a Bernei supporter and have felt as you have written here for a long time, but…..the damn Supreme Court always rears its head. Hillary really will make a better replacement for Ginsberg et al, when they retire, than a Republican—won't she?

Interested in your thoughts about the Supreme. The damage they cause is really hard to undo. Especially if in 2016, the Repugs control all three houses. This is what's keeping me up at night.

[cascadiance]

234. When a Democrat gives "fast track authority" to potentially a complete Republican government in 2016

and this Democratic president pushes harder to do this than anything ever in front of him, I have to wonder whether we should not only be careful about not allowing Republicans to pick the Supreme Court, but also which Democrat will be picking these justices now too. We've been served yesterday a huge example of corporate agenda by a certain part of the Democratic Party that is a CANCER that really needs a heavy dose of chemotherapy to get rid of right now. We can't afford to have that cancerous tumor grow any more than it has already or it will be fatal for us as a country.

Part of me wonders if Ginsberg was more conscious of the nature fo this president earlier, which is one reason why she hasn't retired yet too. We need to give her a president that she will feel comfortable with picking her replacement so that she can enjoy her later years and not work until she dies like so many of the rest of us now will with our savings and retirement funds being trashed along with our jobs and salaries.

[navarth]

236. well said nt

[WillyT]

26. And Your Assumption Suggests That Hillary Clinton Is A Corporate Democrat...

Thanks for making my point.

[Old Codger]

38. serious doubts

That she will be the nominee...have to sorta wait and see there huh?

[merrily]

86. Welcome to DU. Good to see so many new posters and infrequent speaking up.

[rbnyc]

94. Every time we vote for corporate dems we make a statement...

...that we can be taken for granted and that our votes can be extorted.

They need to lose.

But we are not in the general election yet. We still have time to advance a liberal candidate and win.

[Maedhros]

127. Yes, indeed.

We're supposed to vote as we're told, not go off thinking for ourselves.

[MissDeeds]

135. +10000

It makes absolutely no sense to keep hoping things will change and then vote for corporate Dems. It defies logic.

[Maedhros]

255. If we just keep electing more and more corporate Democrats,

just because they are better than the Republicans, after a few election cycles a liberal utopia will just magically appear.

Honest!

[rbnyc]

283. lol

[Mnpaul]

273. The corporate Dems

do almost nothing that I want. Why should I bother? I seem to lose ground whether we have a corporate Dem or a corporate Repub. Neither one will defend the constitution, reign in Wall St. or quit meddling in the middle east.

[MisterP]

103. that line of reasoning makes sense only if the Dem doesn't do everything in their power to defeat

other Dems--as we've just seen

(it also doesn't work if you have frontal lobes intact, but that's a side issue by now ...)

[Maedhros]

123. There is a reason anyone who considers pushing the Democratic Party to the left

is treated to such mewling authoritarian drivel: the people running the Democrats don't want us considering liberal candidates.

So they try to ridicule, browbeat, shame and coerce us into voting for a corporate-owned politician with the same old tired, empty, worthless canard "so you'd rather have a Republican?"

Sorry, won't work.

[BeanMusical]

129. Hey, you're back!

[QC]

155. Are you thinking what I'm thinking?

[BeanMusical]

157. Hehehe.

[cui bono]

166. Do those also come in the bohemian variety?

[Mnpaul]

275. Why is it foolish?

I get next to nothing from either party.

[Fumesucker]

10. Those were the days my friend

We thought they'd never end

[WillyT]

14. Let's Keep Dancing...

[deutsey]

15. Unfortunately, he's pretty much doing what I expected

Before people jump on me, I voted for Obama (both times)...I voted for Gore (and was among the thousands protesting Bush's election theft at the inauguration). I voted for Clinton (both times...Harkin was my original choice in '92; in '94 I held my nose very tightly). I voted for Mondale (I skipped '88).

But really, as a Democrat, I'm always voting "against" more than I'm voting "for." My first vote in '84 was against Reagan more than it was for Mondale (we all knew he didn't have chance in hell). Even when the Dem wins I know he (and it's been a he so far) will be serving other, more well-heeled interests before mine.

So I'm not surprised by how things have gone and are going.

I'm voting for Bernie, too. I don't know what chance he has in this corrupt, bought-and-paid-for political system that we have, but at least he's sincerely articulating issues that are really relevant to me for a change.

[WillyT]

17. My First Vote Was For Jerry Brown 1974... Then Jimmy Carter 1976... It's All Gone Downhill Since...

[Fuddnik]

21. Well, at least I got to vote for McGovern.

And Dennis Kucinich in his first City Council run.

[cascadiance]

223. I also first tried to campaign for Jerry Brown when he ran in 1976 for president in the Iowa caucus

... then. I remember the strategies people took in going for "undecided" reps in our caucus groups when we didn't want to endorse the front runner then, and didn't have enough numbers to have reps for certain given candidates. Those were the days then.

Really hope at some point that this country gets in place instant runoff voting to allow us to vote our conscience and still make sure that our vote counts for the lesser of two evils at the end if the election comes down to that.

[hifiguy]

233. First POTUS vote was for Carter. Though I had supported Mo Udall

and then Jerry Brown in the primaries. Fritz Mondale being on the ticket made it easier for me as a Minnesota boy.

First vote ever was in '74 for Governor Wendell Anderson. The guy everyone remembers because he was on the cover of Time holding a big northern pike with the Minnesota Miracle headline.

[Martin Eden]

92. always voting "against" more than I'm voting "for."

Me too, and I'm bloody sick of it.

I really expected better of Obama in 2008, but in 2012 I cast an anti-Romney vote.

As far as I can tell, Bernie is the real deal. He's worth fighting for. In the general election I will be PUMPED to vote FOR someone!

[CorporatistNation]

149. I Knew What Obama Was About...

Well before he "floated" into the room in Orlando at NALEO Conference. Seen the Bush hard guy walk? Well, Obama was that to the nth degree. No need to talk to him, you saw who he was right there. People forgot to watch what he does rather than listen to what he says. ALL BS! Lies, Lies, Lies!!! Just another example that demonstrates that America IS A CORPORATIST NATION!

[Le Taz Hot]

16. K & R!

This is war, baby, make no mistake and no, I will not sit down and shut the fuck up.

[hifiguy]

37. I knew you'd be at this party.

I'd rather go down fighting on my feet than on my knees begging the corporatists for crumbs from their gilded tables.

[WillyT]

39. :fistbump:

[99Forever]

100. Yes.

And ALL is fair in war.

[Maedhros]

130. Preach! [n/t]

[MissDeeds]

136. Right there with you

[Fuddnik]

18. Bernie or Nobody.

Alan Grayson for Senate or nobody.

No Hillary, No How, No Way!!!!!!

[Aerows]

19. If you aren't pissed off by this

you haven't been paying attention.

What in the hell did I vote for?

I'll tell you one thing - I've cast the last vote for Democrats that vote for this kind of shit. Hillary Clinton wasn't getting my vote in the primary anyway, though, so I doubt she cares. Everybody on the state level that voted for this monstrosity will never get another vote from me, either.

It's funny - the only thing that Republican and Democratic legislators can agree upon in Washington is the only thing that Republican and Democratic voters can agree is a horrible idea.

This was basically a huge fuck you to the American people - left, right and the middle.

[Fuddnik]

22. You voted for the same thing I did. "The Lesser Evil". A Mirage. A Marketing Campaign.

[hifiguy]

41. We were had. By masters of deception. nt

[deutsey]

59. I knew when I saw Summers and Geithner in his inner circle

that I couldn't climb aboard the bandwagon like so many of my friends and family did.

I wanted to, but I just couldn't. Yes, I cast the ballot for him, but it was really against McCain and the Bush years, just like it was against Mitt in 2012.

With the likes of Summers and Geithner on board in '08, I knew what direction that yacht was going in.

[hifiguy]

65. Yep. Appoint the chief arsonists to

take charge of the fire department while the country is burning down. Fucking brilliant.

[WillyT]

44. + 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!!

[L0oniX]

77. I'm sure the wise ones will explain it to us all. Finally Democrats and Republicans have a kumbaya.

[hrmjustin]

20. You can vote for whoever you want but when we have a nominee the rules of DU are very clear.

[HERVEPA]

23. Thanks for the totally unnecessary reminder.

[hrmjustin]

25. You're welcome.

[U4ikLefty]

169. Not a reminder

It was a threat

[emsimon33]

221. Yep!

[grasswire]

279. indeed nt

[hobbit709]

28. If the choice is between the corporate candidate and one that espouses democratic ideals

I know which one I'm voting for.

[hrmjustin]

30. I wish you the best in your choice.

[Le Taz Hot]

35. Anyone on DU can vote for whomever he/she chooses.

We just can't talk about it if we choose not to vote for a corporate shill who happens to have a "D" next to his/her name. DU doesn't have the right to dictate who people vote for. Just wanted to clear that up for anyone new who just read what you wrote and said, "WTF?"

[hrmjustin]

43. The rules are clear.

http://election.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice


And people shoukd vote for whoever they want. I want to.vote the nominee.

[Paulie]

96. By my count we are like 12+ months from that clause

You bringing that up now for what reason??? May I kindly remind you that YOU are just a member of this board like anyone else... So stop playing parent please.

[hrmjustin]

98. People are allowed to post their opinions just like me.

[Paulie]

99. You're not sharing an opinion

You're quoting the rules out of season to stifle other people from voicing their opinion. In case you missed the tone of this thread people are pisaed off at the betrayal and are venting their frustration TODAY. Or would take rather have them do it 12 months from now???

[hrmjustin]

102. No one is stifling anyone.

Ignore is your friend if you don't like my posts.

[BeanMusical]

145. ...

[Jeff Murdoch]

259. .

[Puglover]

276. JPP

Just perf to the 2nd power!

[Jester Messiah]

205. The battle-cry of the boot-licker. [nt]

[truebrit71]

239. Indeed...

...

[emsimon33]

222. Or not vote

[WillyT]

45. So... The POTUS JUST BROKE DU's RULES ???

Maybe he should be banned... and not another word spoken about him.

[hrmjustin]

49. I am not saying anyone broke the rules.

[hobbit709]

56. You're sure doing a lot of hinting about the rules.

When someone starts quoting rules, I have increasing doubts about the validity of their position.

[hrmjustin]

57. Not my rules.

[hobbit709]

60. Not the point.

[hrmjustin]

62. I had no other point but that there are rules here.

I took his op to mean he would never vote for Hillary even in the general. if I am wrong in that he can correct me.

[hobbit709]

63. I'm not buying any bridges.

[hrmjustin]

66. You don't have to.

[Ed Suspicious]

117. Not taking a fucking loyalty pledge for you or anyone else. You know what? If she wins

the nomination, she ought to earn my vote. Earn it.

[hrmjustin]

119. You don't have to vote for her and I agree she has to earn your vote.

Like everyone for everyone else she has to earn everyone's vote.

[jalan48]

55. The Rules?

[hrmjustin]

58. Terms of service.

[jalan48]

64. Thanks, I just read them.

So if Hillary wins the primary we have to support her. No more Bernie talk at that point.

[hrmjustin]

69. Well you can vote for whoever you want.

You are not supposed to heavily criticize the nominee.

[jalan48]

79. That makes sense.

I think it will be good to push Hillary further to the left though. What incentive is there for her to adopt more progressive stances if she knows the progressives will all vote for her anyway?

[hrmjustin]

81. That is what Sanders is doing. He knows she will likely win but he is pushing her to the left.

[jalan48]

83. Good point- I hope she doesn't drift back to the right though.

Especially on issues like the trade agreement.

[merrily]

108. Doubt Bernie would agree.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/128014412

[hrmjustin]

110. Ttp is such a divisive bill. I wish Democrats did not support the damn thing.

[NorthCarolina]

231. Ummm, if you think Hillary "might" ever be against the TPP,

think again. As Secretary of State she helped to draft the TPP, so I would venture to guess her support for it is a given.

According to a Bloomberg News report from 2013

"She’s <Hillary> also taken a leading part in drafting the Trans-Pacific Partnership, the free-trade pact that would give U.S. companies a leg up on their Chinese competitors."

http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles/2013-01-10/hillary-clintons-business-legacy-at-the-state-department#p2

[merrily]

106. Please don't speak for Bernie. That is certainly not what he said he's doing.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/128014412

[hrmjustin]

107. I think he knows he is the underdog.

[merrily]

109. Of course. But that is very different from what your prior post said.

[hrmjustin]

112. I think it is consistent.

[merrily]

175. Yet very different. Underdog does not equal sure loser.

Do we really need this kind of explanation?

[hrmjustin]

176. We disagree.

[merrily]

177. Again, Sanders did not say he knows he can't win. He said something very different.

Knowing he is an underdog, he still said something very different. Please don't put words in his mouth. Is that really so much to ask?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/128014412

[hrmjustin]

178. What words did I put in his mouth?

[merrily]

181. Um, you said Sanders knows he's going to lose. He said the opposite.

That sure seems like you put words in his mouth. Would you prefer if I said "Don't pretend you can read Sanders's mind?" Does it have to be that literal?

[hrmjustin]

182. I said he knows she is likely going to win. I can give an opinion just like you can.

[merrily]

186. Without looking back, you said he knew she was going to win, or was likely to win and then said

thing like he's only in the race to push her to the left. That's not stating an opinion. That's pretending you know Sander's thoughts and/or motives.

Look, I know you're capable of going on like this for quite a while. I'm not interested in doing that. If you can't even acknowledge that you pretended to know Sanders thought and motives after half a dozen posts and proof to the contrary, fine. Have a good night.

[hrmjustin]

188. Good night.

See DU in a few days. I need a break from here.

[kath]

212. Can we hold you to that?

[truebrit71]

241. I doubt it...

[kath]

246. Would be super nice though,

Wouldn't it, to have some respite from all that?

(Will stop at that or the Swarm will get me)

[William769]

264. You Da Man Justin.

Tell them like it is!

[hrmjustin]

265. Thank you. And I did take the day off and i will be busy the next few days so I won't be on much.

Pride weekend is coming up here so I will be busy this weekend.

[William769]

267. Kiss all the boys boys for me!

And have fun!

[hrmjustin]

268. Lol I will.

[Ed Suspicious]

120. Will you knock it off? He knows she will likely win?

You're now my first ignore. You're there in order to preserve my membership here. Welcome to the list.

[hrmjustin]

125. I am allowed my opinion and I will state it.

[BeanMusical]

152. And you believe that myth too?

[hrmjustin]

153. I believe Hillary is a much stronger candidate.

[BeanMusical]

158. No, the "Bernie is only in it to push Hillary to the left" myth.

She will truly move to the left (and playing one for gullible people doesn't count) when hell freezes over or the Sun becomes a Red Giant, whichever comes last. As for her $trength it could be her biggest weakness.

[hrmjustin]

160. Well we disagree.

[BeanMusical]

164. That's a logical conclusion.

[hrmjustin]

165. Have a good night.

[cui bono]

167. Most of us believe she is not.

And also that she is the worst candidate in the Dem primary so far.

[hrmjustin]

168. Most in the party disagrees with you and agrees with me.

[cui bono]

244. Most in the party don't pay attention to politics and poll for HRC

because of name recognition. As we see, when people learn about Bernie they love him.

[IMG][/IMG]

[yikes1]

179. push hillary

It will be her rhetoric that is pushed to the left, not her if she wins the primary she will show her true corporatist colors!!

[freedom fighter jh]

204. Exactly.

[Enthusiast]

201. If she wins the primary she will lose in the general.

She has no appeal. Face it now. It is the truth.

[merrily]

95. No advocating for Bernie, or any third party, or for staying home. Those are the terms of service.

Or, you could get banned. No one knows how you vote unless you post that, though. Which is one of the reasons posting loyalty oaths seems so silly to me.

[jalan48]

97. Ok-thank you for the info.

I'm learning more about DU every day.

[Paulie]

101. Bernie is running for the DEMOCRATIC NOMINATION FOR PRESIDENT

I will advocate for him all day and every day for that role until he drops out.

in case you missed the announcement:

https://www.democrats.org/post/dnc-chair-statement-on-bernie-sanders-2016-announcement

[merrily]

105. The context of the subthread was what the rules mean relative to a nominee.

As you may have guessed from my sig line, I know Bernie is running as a Democrat and we are just about starting official primary season.

[Paulie]

111. The rules apply in the general not now

Bringing them up now is pointless distraction and honestly feels like bullying to shut people up.

And I'm on mobile view on a phone, no signatures or avatar pics visible.

[Igel]

137. Exactly right.

But the OP isn't time-limited. A reasonable interpretation is that if a corporate (D) is chosen as the nominee, agitation against that corporate Dem would continue.

That may not be what WillyT intended, but it's certainly well within what he said. Clarifying this is a good thing, and when this was made clear the issue was resolved.

Understanding that this was a reasonable interpretation of what WillyT said is also a good thing. Otherwise WillyT would be not just bullied to make him shut up--which isn't what happened, but good try--he would just be given his choice of pepperoni or cheese pizza, delivered to his in box.

[merrily]

180. Yes, when we have a nominee, we're in the general and I did not bring up the rules.

That happened all the way back at Reply 29. I was just trying to be helpful re: clarifying a sub point.

The level of posting policing here is getting silly. Maybe each poster should content themselves with worrying about the content of their own posts? Just a thought.

[L0oniX]

70. You should post that in the [Clueless group] ...but they might ban you.

[hrmjustin]

71. And what group would that be?

[truebrit71]

242. The one where you ban people if they ask you a simple question...

...you know that one....

[hrmjustin]

289. Oh you mean the safe havens. Oh ok.

[Violet_Crumble]

292. A safe haven for what, though? It mustn't be for posting positive stuff about Hillary Clinton...

Because I was blocked without warning by one host. I won't say who he is as I don't want to be seen as calling anyone out, but apart from one post wishing that host well when he spoke of health issues, the post below is the sum total of what I'd posted in the group. I don't go around attacking any of the Democratic candidates in GD, so I'm a bit confused as to why I was blocked. Do you know why? I would have thought positive contributions about Hillary Clinton would be welcome...

This is the post....

Hello, Hillary Clinton Group. I come bearing gifts!

I saw this in the local paper today and thought you guys might find it interesting to see that both Obama and Hillary Clinton are very popular over here...

Australians love Barack Obama and Pope Francis, don't know China, Japan or India's leaders - poll

Australians would happily host a dinner party with Barack Obama as guest of honour, welcome Hillary Clinton and Pope Francis to the table as warm friends – and gladly see Vladimir Putin suffer food poisoning.

<snip>

Obama's jibes about the Tony Abbott's environmental record at the same meeting hasn't hurt the US President's standing among Australians, with 86 per cent reporting admiration.

If Australians had a vote in the next US election, 77 per cent would send Clinton to the White House – although 19 per cent "don't admire" the former secretary of state and first lady.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/national/australians-love-barack-obama-and-pope-francis-dont-know-china-japan-or-indias-leaders--poll-20150615-ghnvsg.html

And this interview's from a few years ago, but it's still pretty funny and Hillary Clinton came across as a pretty nice person in it. I don't know if any of you have seen it or are all that interested in seeing it, but I'll post it anyway coz I stumbled across it tonight when I was looking for another Hamish & Andy clip...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11079671

[cui bono]

287. You asking that in response to that post is very

funny.

[hrmjustin]

288. Good, I am glad you got a laugh.

[BeanMusical]

156. Roflmao!

[Aerows]

73. Maybe the Democratic party

is too exclusive for all the "little" people. Obviously we aren't needed.

[hrmjustin]

76. I don't agree.

I think we are the heart of the party, not corporations.

[Aerows]

87. If you can't match what you say

with what you do, your words are worthless.

Congress and the President just proved that they could give two shits about their constituents.

Thus, only corporations matter - the people are not their constituents.

If "We the People" actually mattered, we would know the exact contents of the trade deal. Instead, the only people who know what is in it are the CEOs and CFOs of global conglomerates.

If that doesn't tell you who matters, nothing will. The Democratic party is way too exclusive for the average, non-corporation "people".

[hrmjustin]

89. I understand and share your disappointment.

[hifiguy]

183. Tell that to the moneybags

who fund DINOs at all levels. It will be far too late when they start passively culling the herd in the name of increased profits.

[BeanMusical]

138. Well if the nominee is Hillary I predict a significant drop in traffic and ads revenue on DU.

But the admins know that, why do you think they launched that fan site for HRC?

[hrmjustin]

140. They said they were launching it for fun.

Most DUers will support the nominee.

[BeanMusical]

142. Sure, they did it for fun.

Sigh.

[hrmjustin]

143. Are you upset they made it?

[BeanMusical]

147. Have you ever heard about the Turing test?

[hrmjustin]

148. Vaguely.

[Rex]

245. .

[Aerows]

195. What on Earth?

Please tell me they didn't launch a Hillary Clinton fan site.

Just no.

[bunnies]

213. its a fact

http://www.hillarymojo.com/

[Aerows]

235. Without comment.

http://www.hillarymojo.com/2015/05/29/21-signs-you-are-obsessed-with-hillary-clinton/

[BeanMusical]

216. From what I've read the rules are similar to the Hillary group.

Going there is like watching an episode of The Twilight Zone: http://www.hillarymojo.com/

[leftofcool]

262. The rest of us will just double the money we send to DU

Not a problem and the ads will keep coming.

[rhett o rick]

250. Ohhh the power to ban. nm

[Oilwellian]

27. I'm with you WillyT

Kick

[WillyT]

47. Thanks Oilwellian...

[Oilwellian]

121. You rock too, my friend

This battle has just begun.

[Jester Messiah]

29. Word.

The corporate boot-lickers will have to succeed without my vote. Not that they give a shit.

[WillyT]

54. Exactly !!!

[GoneFishin]

31. Yep. A big fuck you to the 99% from the poodles of the 1%.

[Old Codger]

33. Absolutely N/T

[truebluegreen]

42. I'm with you, WillyT!

[WillyT]

48. :fistbump:

[L0oniX]

46. This is our last chance to start removing the 1% from the government. "OUR" omitted because...

it ain't ours right now.

[raindaddy]

50. 100% Agreed. We Were Betrayed..

I now see the third way democrats and the traditional Democrats as two different parties. I also will never vote third way again.

[azmom]

51. Bernie doesn't take bribes. He works for the people.

How people are not willing to stand with him and fight the good fight is beyond me. Like Bernie says, this is a moral and political war against the billionaires who now own our government.

I am confident that once Bernie's message gets out to the masses, there will be no stopping the revolution. Everything that Bernie says resonates with people because they are living what he says to be true.

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. I suspect we are at one of those populists moments

food for thought, guess who changed his position today on TPA? Nope, he is not opposed to free trade...

Ted Cruz.

Yup, I ran the story earlier in the day OFF site. It struck me as quite symptomatic of where we are. If you want the link ask I do not post straight news, for the most part, here.

[hifiguy]

72. When a dominionist cretin like Cruz

Has a more defensible position on any issue than a Democratic president that tells you why things are getting so hot in this handbasket.

[nadinbrzezinski]

75. Well he is one with his ear firmly in the right wing

side of the populist house.

So we ran the story, and quoted from his editorial... first I went WTF over? After I read the editorial... it made perfect sense...

But that be straight news. And that is not really wanted here. Suffice it to say both the NYT, Politico and the Hill had the same reaction as I did.

[onecaliberal]

53. I'm with you.

I'm done voting for corporate dems who screw us at every turn. I'm going to change my registration. I don't give two shits about the lesser of anymore. The so called dems who support this shit because they haven't been effected. They obviously care nothing for the millions who were decimated.
We aren't at the employment level we were when bush left office and these fucking corporate pieces of shit think a few million to "retrain" people is going to matter when a few million can't find jobs beyond mcdonalds.
I seriously can't believe this is the country I grew up in. Sorry for rambling...

[Logical]

67. Thanks WillyT! nth

[NRaleighLiberal]

68. I am beyond seeing enough of this.

[hifiguy]

74. People are at what I call The Popeye Point:

They've had all they can stands and they can't stands no more!

[NRaleighLiberal]

78. funny - I can hear popeye's voice reading those words

I've been fed up for quite awhile, actually. It's the opposite of hope, sadly.

[hifiguy]

82. It's a memorable meme I have been

Pushing for a while. Everyone can hear Popeye saying it in their heads.

[rbnyc]

88. K &.R

100%

Political revolution starts at home.

[The Green Manalishi]

93. I will not vote for anyone who supports the TPP

Period.


I don't regard it as voting against the Democratic candidate, I regard it as voting against the piece of shit posing as a Democrat.

[MissDeeds]

115. Well said, WillyT

Any "Democrat" who works against us is not worthy of our support. It has been said many times here that a "D" behind a name doesn't necessarily make that person the real deal. We're seeing that today, big time.

Getting played by DINOs will continue as long as we allow it. I won't vote for a corporate tool, a Third Wayer or a DINO and will work to make sure those already in office are primaried.

[840high]

116. Willy - I'm with you.

[JoePhilly]

122. From what I can tell, no one is stopping you from working against Democrats.

In fact, I see you do little else.

[glinda]

124. I am with you, WillyT.

[raouldukelives]

126. There is one thing that has been playing in my head all day since I heard the news.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="

" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


There are those that stand with the Trumps of the world and there are those that stand with the Young.

I will never again stand with the Dimons and Greenspan acolytes. Never.

[Phlem]

131. K&R! K&R! K&R! K&R!

I feel ya brotha.

But the "I'm a new Democrat" tipped me off right away. There rest has been verbal abuse till fast track passed. The fucking silence is deafening.

But we don't give up do we?

I'm still in the fight.

[tularetom]

134. After 7 years of wussitude, Obama decides to take the gloves off and fight

And when he does, its for this piece of shit that delivers the biggest FU that the American middle class has ever received.

I don't hate the man, but to say I'm disappointed in him is putting it mildly.

Like you, I'm not going to vote for another corporate Dem. I'll be voting for and supporting Sen Sanders as long as he is in the race. If it should happen that for whatever reason he's no longer in the race, well, I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. I will promise this; I will never cast a vote against any Democratic candidate in a presidential general election.

[lovemydog]

139. Seven Years of Wussitude

Was that one of Gabriel Garcia Marquez' lesser-known works?

[tularetom]

146. Yeah I think he wrote that right after "Love in the Time of the Common Cold"

[Art_from_Ark]

162. Gabriel Garcia Marquez was very prescient

He predicted the Obama administration 40+ years in advance!

[lovemydog]

163. Well now, I don't agree with that.

But I still will laugh at the joke.

[ibegurpard]

151. not true at all!

He strong-armed wayward Democrats into voting for an ACA without a public option.

[McCamy Taylor]

141. A bit of hyperbole. I can think of many Dems who have done worse.

[tularetom]

154. Well, there was Bill Clinton, the Rapidly Shrinking Dog

He was definitely worse so you do sort of have a point.

[Art_from_Ark]

150. Preach it, brother!

[TM99]

159. If Democrats vote for Clinton

as the lesser of two evils, then the right-ward shift of the political spectrum will be complete. Neo-liberals are NOT progressive leftists.

The GOP is ruled by the unholy far right trinity of narcissistic libertarians, born again Christians, and corporatists. The Democratic party is fast leaving the left behind with the ascendancy of the Third Way who are moderately socially liberal (usually after the fact!) and totally corporatists as this TPA/TPP mess shows.

I will never vote for another coporatists right of center whether that is far right or even moderately right. I can not be threatened by Supreme Court justices. I can not be persuaded to vote for the lesser of two evils. I will vote for Sanders. I will consider O'Malley. I will never vote for Clinton.

[Thespian2]

161. Yuuup!

What you said...I agree...

No vote for Filthy Rich who had their millions handed to them

[davidpdx]

171. First, I am deeply disappointed with the party and President Obama on TPP

The vote damaged our party more than people realize. Now that fast track has passed that sets up President Obama to get TPP finished and push it through Congress with little debate. It is anti-democratic.

Second regarding the upcoming election, people on DU who support Hillary Clinton seem to think this is going to be a cakewalk with her as our nominee we are going to win in a landslide. I hear them saying "Oh don't criticize Hillary Clinton you'll damage her for the general election". Yet I see multiple threads where Clinton supporters claim that we don't have a chance if Sanders is nominated, and claims that those that support Sanders have drive the Clinton supporters off the board. This is just pure and utter bullshit and hypocritical of those who are spouting it.

[senseandsensibility]

174. It breaks my heart to rec this

but I have to, after several hours of thought. What have we come to?

[MannyGoldstein]

184. I'll stop bashing them

as soon as they stop bashing me.

[hifiguy]

189. Don't hold yer breath, Manny.

We need you.

[Fuddnik]

202. I could think of a better term than "bashing" for what they're doing to us.

[Bonobo]

185. I believe Hillary came out against it as soon as her little birds told her it was a fait accompli.

That way it would get done AND she could take credit for (eventually) saying she was against it.

[strategery blunder]

190. Turnout in 2016 will be a disaster if a corporate candidate gets the nomination

If I wanted a Republican, I would vote for one.

It's time for Democrats to STOP ACTING LIKE REPUBLICANS.

I will never vote for a Republican. However, as I live in Washington State, both my Senators have shamed themselves by acting like Republicans.

Would I trust Jeb Bush with TPA? Or any of the Republican clown car? FUCK NO.

I warned both of them I would undervote my 2016 ballot if they failed to represent my interests in DC.

Suffice it to say that now I will cast my vote at one of THEIR offices--with staffers watching me undervote the US Senate office (whether that's 2016 or 2018, I don't remember), before mailing it in.

They obviously don't get the hint when voter turnout is low and the Blue Dogs all lose their seats. Maybe they'll learn when they are forced to watch voters write in "none of the above" on a voted ballot. Secret ballots be damned.

[kenfrequed]

229. Maybe it is time for primary challenges for all blue dogs.

Seriously. How hard is it for these people to get.

I am completely grateful that both of my Senators in Minnesota voted No!

[williesgirl]

191. I couldn't agree with you more, WillyT. I'm still fucking furious. My

Voice messages left for assholes Warner & Kaine were scathing, but they won't care. I asked them what the final payoff was that bought an unAmerican vote like theirs. I'll work my ass off to help primary them. As for the President, I could vomit I'm so pissed and upset with him. All that work helping get him elected, donations I really couldn't afford, etc. We've been fucked with no kiss.

[WillyT]

206. + 1,000,000,000 What You Said !!!

... As for the President, I could vomit I'm so pissed and upset with him. All that work helping get him elected, donations I really couldn't afford, etc. We've been fucked with no kiss.

[Skittles]

192. BUT HE GIVES SUCH PURTY SPEECHES

AND, AND, LOOK OVER THERE!!!

[madokie]

193. So as to grease the skids

that ultimately installs Hillary to the presidency. This whole logic that you lay out is flawed as you imply here.

I will be working and voting for Bernie Sanders. I will vote for Hillary if she comes out on top but I will be holding my nose while doing it. Our worst is so much better than their best.

[Enthusiast]

196. K&R! This post deserves hundreds of recommendations!

I'm with you, WillyT. Especially on the PERIOD.

[stonecutter357]

199. .

[Fairgo]

200. Scrap Iron Gadaski

Several weeks back, in that hopeful moment when the fast track was stalled, i immediately Thought of old Scrap Iron, the professional wrestler. he would always appear to be on the brink of winning, just before the figure four leg lock forced a submission. Of course it was planned that way, for our entertainment. It has to look real, throw up some dust, provide a little smoke for the sleight of hand, but the outcomes are assured and the commentary is already written. This election starts to feel like a Turing test (from upthread inference) of sorts. Do we have a representative government or just the shell? Watch what happens when Sanders shifts from dismissible side show to formidable main event. Watch carefully. You will know if we are owned or owners.

[mmonk]

207. I'm with you.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

208. In a democracy, we're supposed to hold our public servants accountable. K&R

[cantbeserious]

209. I Will No Longer Settle For The Lesser Of Two Corporate Evils - Go Bernie Go

eom

[Admiral Loinpresser]

210. Electing Hillary means the extinction of Homo Sapiens.

There is no point in voting for a Business As Usual Democrat. None. My grandchildren will be just as dead from the election of a BAU Democrat as a BAU Republican. Just a few cosmetic differences that won't mean diddly squat when NY goes under water and California is a desert and we have massive crop failures all over the planet from desertification.

Hillary is a big fracker and Tar Sands supporter. She would be a traitorous repeat of Copenhagen in 2009.

No. Point. Whatsoever. Dead is dead.

[markpkessinger]

211. The problem with approaching politics as team sport . . .

. . . is that you are always left playing the same old game.

Great post, WillyT!

[NotHardly]

214. Want ... what my grandfather use to say about "want"... rephrased for HOPE

Hope in one hand and shit in the other... see which one gets filled first.

No, I am not anti-Hillary (just for clarification). That screed is just annoying and counterproductive.
Take a look to the right ... see anyone other there bashing their clown car??? Yeah, it is my point.

[Maedhros]

256. So, just go along to get along then?

Doesn't matter how egregious the betrayal, just suck it up with a "Thank you, sir, may I have another?"

That's nonsense.

[Triana]

215. BINGO.

Just had a post hidden because I dared criticize Obama for pushing TPP/TPA. But I have a blog. And on that blog I'll write whatever I damn well please: http://www.sevenbowie.com/2015/06/obama-wisely-waited-until-the-end-of-his-2nd-term-to-crap-on-the-heads-of-his-biggest-supporters/

[treestar]

217. Oh FFS he has not

You decided to get yourself worked up over a trade agreement. None of the things that you claim to happen are the point of it or will happen. You and others have been shit stirring this for weeks.

[hifiguy]

237. When your job is shipped overseas, as countless thousands will be.

and you or your friends and family are dumpster diving for food, get back to me, will ya?

When this abomination is fully implemented, "buy local" laws will be illegal. Product safety standards will be gone, labor laws, pollution standards, more or less ANY regulation at any level can be made to disappear by the TPP tribunals if the corps want to challenge them. And you know they will challenge every one on the grounds of damage to future profits, which is a genuine cause of action under these arguments, including NAFTA. Reduce the corporate overlords projected future profits by nasty old regulation or laws and the TAXPAYERS have to REIMBURSE the CORPORATIONS for their PROJECTED losses. And the first challengers will be the fossil fuel megagiants, to stop any meaningful response to climate change.

Naomi Klein details in her book the end of a solar energy company in Canada, her home country, due to WTO provisions. Ontario's "Buy Ontario Made" program was ruled an impermissible violation of the "free trade" agreements to which Canada was a party. Bye-bye jobs, bye-bye solar power manufacturer. World domination absent war is the end game, and we are now seeing the beginning of the end. War destroys property, and the only thing more dear to the corporatist heart than property is money. Trade deals, which should be called enablers of unlimited capital movement rather than anything having to do with actual trade, leave the property there to be looted after the people are run off and reduced to peonage. Profits over everything, even the future of the human race.

[YoungDemCA]

238. +1

This is me.

[leftofcool]

263. Yes, but they are having so much fun getting the others riled up.

[NCTraveler]

218. The first page of GD is full of people criticizing and working against democrats.

Don't let a few comments get in the way of your criticism and work against democrats.

[emsimon33]

220. YESSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!

Without the commitment and passion of the base, the Third Way (old Republican) Democrats will not win. They arrogantly believe that we will continue to hold our noses and vote for the least objectionable which is them. Obama gave no credit to the thousands of people who volunteered for him, spending their own time and money to travel across the nation, working for his campaign so that he won the primary and then the election. Nor did he give any credit to the 50-State Strategy of Dean. As far as I am concerned, when given a chance, I shall name him as the worst president of the 20th/21st century. That he wants TPP and the other toxic "trade" deals as his legacy is ironic and they will paint him as the psychopathic hypocrite that he is, claiming to be for the environment, net neutrality, etc. when he would sell his children's future for a dime of corporate money!

[zappaman]

224. Right on! Keep up the work against Democrats!

[donnasgirl]

225. Excellent post Willy, i agree

[HassleCat]

226. Well, OK, but...

What will you say the first time President Sanders strays from the True Path and supports something you don't like?

[Pisces]

228. Ho hum what a bore this campaign against Hillary on DU has become and trying to demonize the best

Democratic President of our lifetime.

[Maedhros]

257. Pathetic.

/ignore.

[Pisces]

271. I agree this thread is pathetic!!

[uwep]

230. One issue Democrats

I feel that DU has become the forum for one issue Democrats that
play to the repugs hands.

1. these were people that were excited about Obama and now are
trying to destroy him because of one issue.
2. They are not only destroying Hillary and Bill but giving an opening
for repugs to win the presidency.
3. I believe you can support the candidate of your choice without
trashing the other candidates.

I firmly believe there are repug infiltrators that are supporting these
one issue Democrats in an attempt to insure that Hillary does not
have a chance to run in the general election.

I think that Senator Sanders is a great Senator, and needs to stay
there. I still do not believe he is a Democrat, having listened to
his speeches. Be wary of an election frenzy and we nominate a
candidate that will be unelectable in the general election. If so
say goodbye to all of our social programs as we know them.

[cascadiance]

249. There isn't just one issue of disappointment...

He's also messed up with things like:

1) prosecuting banksters (WORSE than Ronald Reagan's administration which he says he models himself after)
2) not keeping NSA spying under control (maybe he likes this happening?)
3) prosecuting whistleblowers trying to alert us of wrongdoing in our government for "spying" which he's had the worse record of any president in this country in doing.
4) not negotiating hardly at all for the public option, let alone a single player plans which still puts in flaws in to his health care plan that it is too costly with leeches still profiting from our health care system, that someone really wanting to fix the system should have had taken out.

There are a lot of other things too.

His absolute OBSESSION with passing the TPA and TPP, and the process that has been used to create these bills (and the secrecy around them and who's put them together) in my book shows that he's NOT someone working for us. I'm sorry, it's not just one minor thing we are upset about. The more minor things I've mentioned above, though some of them aren't really minor but ar relatively minor in comparison. But this major problem could be even worse if he colors the Democratic Party with such a big stain that we have both a Republican president and a Republican congress in 2016, which will totally destroy this country with the TPA authority he just had congress potentially GIVE TO THE GODDAMNED REPUBLICANS. If some think Republicans are so bad, and that we must have Hillary to beat them, then they should have been as adamant as we are in staying Obama is making a huge mistake in passing this mess. You could even support the TPP (I could see that if perhaps we could review it later and have it be something we could change to make it better if there are problems with it), but the TPA, which is all about institutionalizing UNDEMOCRATIC and UNCONSTITUTIONAL law, simply because Obama probably figures what perhaps now he thinks of as his friends on the Supreme Court won't overturn it when it helps his corporate buddies, is completely unacceptable, and is why so many of us here are people of principle and feel that commands us to DISOWN him as representing us as he is NOT doing so!

[staggerleem]

232. There is a difference between being an "Underground" and hiding your head in the sand.

Let me state this up front - I am as staunch a Bernie Sanders supporter as you'll find. I'll be working my fingers to the bone, the souls of my shoes into dust, and donating to his campaign until it hurts! There is no better representative of my own view of what America can, and rightfully should, be than the junior Senator from Vermont.

That said, however, I am willing to acknowledge that there is a chance that despite my/our best efforts, Bernie MIGHT NOT be the Democratic nominee. And although many of you refuse to discuss that possibility, somewhere deep down you MUST acknowledge it, because if it were a sure thing we wouldn't have to work so hard for it, would we? And I have heard him say, DOZENS of times, that HE WILL NOT RUN AS AN INDEPENDENT, because splitting the vote from the left will be a DISASTER!

The Supreme Court is on the line here, people. Do we want more Alitos on the bench, or more Ginsbergs? Right now, we have 5 monarchists in black robes dictating national policy, conflating property (money) with speech, and granting Constitutional rights to artificial people (corporations) without hearts. They have dictated the policies that have fouled our electoral system, I see making them the minority on the bench as the precursor for everything else the left wants to accomplish.

Those of you who say "Bernie or NOBODY!", and refuse to even discuss a contingency, are likely paving the road to the White House for some lucky and undeserving Republican. Good luck with THAT, friends.

[Maedhros]

258. From experience, posts that start with

"I am as staunch a Bernie Sanders supporter as you'll find, BUT..." are disingenuous and manipulative.

[randome]

266. Right, because it couldn't possibly be someone being honest with you. We don't do that, right?

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[staggerleem]

270. And just WHERE did you see the word "but"?

Not sure what language "Maedhros" is, but does it translate into English as "ostrich?"

Disingenuous & manipulative? No way I could be in the least bit HONEST, eh, Mr. (or Ms., as the case may be) flightless bird with your head in the sand?

Guess you "found me out". Better put me on your iggy list pronto, cuz you've just bought your way onto mine.

I sincerely hope you enjoy the years 2016 - 2020, and perhaps beyond, with the Republican that YOUR ATTITUDE will help put into office!

[Maedhros]

272. And my point is proven...[n/t]

[randome]

240. .

[hr][font color="blue"][center]You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game. -Existenz[/center][/font][hr]

[Octafish]

247. Don't forget Don Siegelman.

And the whistleblowers and the NSA wall to wall and the rest of it we're not paying attention to while still shocked from getting our families' futures picked clean, again, by the Banksters.

[Hun Joro]

248. Right on, as usual!

[DownriverDem]

252. Don't be naive

Sorry Willy,

You may not like what happened, but to not understand that the Dems are more for "we the people" than repubs are is just being politically naïve. Why don't you listen to Bernie? He said he wouldn't attack Hillary. He said he would not be a spoiler so some RWNJ repub can win. Do you understand what he said? I support Hillary, but will vote for whoever the Dem candidate is.

Why don't you get it?

So I guess you will now be unpleasant. Fine. I don't care.

[d_legendary1]

253. 100% in agreement

Serving in a jury because someone called a Democrat a corportist shows how some people don't want to have conversations about their candidate. It also waste my time having to write a response as to why its bogus that we're even considering hiding a post about corporate Dems.

[Hatchling]

254. Right with you!

You rock!

[Nite Owl]

260. With ya Wille

they aren't democrats at all IMO. I will do all I can for Bernie and if he doesn't win the primaries I'm writing him in.
This garbage like the TPP is ruining America.

[leftofcool]

261. I am so sorry you don't like Democrats.

Best of luck to you.

[MisterP]

274. as someone who GOTVs, sends everyone voting guides, gets to vote all-Dem most of the time

it amuses me to no end when the Loyalists start pissing themselves at the idea of anyone even thinking there are Dems they can't vote for--not because they're being gallingly hypocritical and fanatically stupid, but because they have no idea of what it indicates

they really seem to think we'd have 80% turnouts if us party activists would just swallow our disgust and start up the van; 60-70% nonvoting isn't a sign of the two parties leaving the voters behind by offering few people to actually vote FOR, it must be some almighty and insiduous abstentionist campaign flowing from Rove and Kucinich's secret racist left-right-syncretist bunker

somehow they think that longtime activists declaring they won't vote for X or Y is what somehow causes all the other voters to lose heart--rather than a sign that voters seeing their livelihoods drained from them have just stopped caring about the latest admittedly empty promise, and the displeasure has spread to the political junkies

the problem isn't that they think like born flunkies, it's that they think everyone else does, too

plus they think that voting for a Dem who'll pass X, Y, and Z will prevent the GOP from passing X, Y, and Z and that XYZ is so bad we have to prevent any Pub from getting in and passing XYZ that we have to vote for a Dem even if they'll pass XYZ

[WillyT]

280. + 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!!

[CharlotteVale]

278. A-fucking-men.

[Paper Roses]

281. I'm getting old...is it to soon to say "I give up."?

I counted on this President to do what is right for all Americans. I feel he has let us down badly. Then again, so have so many others. This time around with President Obama, I thought things would be better for everyone. Shame on me. To all of my contemporaries and those who come after, good luck. This is a kick in the pants.
Hard to read the news any more. I think I'll just get another good book.

Sigh...I had hopes for Elizabeth Warren. I will support Bernie but I don't really believe that it will be enough to help.
We are in a bad place now and I hope someone can get us out.
It sure won't be the 1%.

[nilram]

282. dang, that's a lot of recs.

+ my 1.

[marym625]

284. from my mind

To your post, and nothing lost in translation. Amazing how much great minds think alike. (Hee hee)

[WillyT]

285. Thanks... You're A Great Friend !!!

[marym625]

286. Awe!

You too. Thank you!

[sabrina 1]

290. So true, the notion that we should ignore the betrayal of these Third Way Dems

is ludicrous they are destroying this party.

I will be working hard to get Bernie Sanders elected.

AND as many real Progressive Democrats to replace these infiltrators, 'third way', Third Party more accurately who rather than start their own, moved into ours and took it over.

[WillyT]

291. A Last Kick From Me...