TPP, because you can too!

[PowerToThePeople]

Last edited Wed Jun 24, 2015, 10:12 PM - Edit history (1)

You too can become a prosperous owner (manager) of southeast asian labor. Profits are sure to come your way using proven race-to-the-bottom (expenditure lessening) strategies. Get on board with the TPP or get left out of this next century's economic prosperity.

[azmom]

1. Fuck

[Hoyt]

2. Are you making fun of Asian workers?

[PowerToThePeople]

3. No

I am decrying those that take advantage of anyone else for their own profits. These workers live extremely harsh lives and get next to nothing for their toils, but others profit immensely by the products of their labour.

[Hoyt]

5. Do you know what country they are from? Asians in the better off countries get paid reasonably well

Of course, those in developing countries don't because they need investment for the country to progress. Interesting how many here want to deny them that chance. The TPP will definitely raise standards in the poorest countries, maybe even force China to improve. Yet, that doesn't seem to matter to some here.

[jeff47]

7. Trade does not have to be a zero-sum game.

It's simplistic to believe all Americans must suffer to improve the lives of other countries.

But it does get you out of the pesky business of having to explain how our current free trade agreements with labor protections aren't doing what this new free trade agreement with labor protections is supposed to do.

[Hoyt]

8. "All Americans" are not going to suffer. In fact, very few even run a small risk of "suffering."

Many more will benefit. And many more in other countries will too.

[jeff47]

10. Not according to your claims.

You are arguing that we in the US must accept a lower standard of living in order to help slaves in Malaysian sweatshops.

That means we suffer. Either directly via losing our job, or indirectly by lowering our salaries due to more competition for jobs.

Wealth is not zero-sum. You can generate wealth without making anyone worse off. Step 1 would be not rewarding Malaysian slave owners with a giant pile of capital via the TPP.

[Hoyt]

12. I'm arguing that greedy Americans will let workers abroad starve if they think it will cost them a

nickel. It's that simple. You can call it what you want, but fact is most people in poor countries would think they had gone to El Dorado if they had a place to live with running water, a single bathroom, and a wall separating a single bedroom. Our conditions here are much better than that for most people.

Even in Malaysia -- that you guys like to cite -- 2/3rds or more of workers are not working in slavery. Yeah, that 1/3 is awful, and the TPP will likely help them. No TPP, help is less likely.

[truebrit71]

14. So we should measure our own standard of living based on how shitty other people have it?

What fucking bullshit is this???

Also "greedy Americans"....WTF is this?

[lonestarnot]

4. Really? How did you arrive at that?

[jeff47]

6. Hoyt's standard talking point is we're all xenophobic racists

who want other countries to suffer for our personal benefit. He finds it much easier than actually defending the TPP.

So far, he has refused to follow his own demands and reduce his standard of living to a Malaysian factory slave.

[Hoyt]

9. Sort of, and don't leave out Greedy too. The photos are not of Malaysian factory slaves.

In fact, those photos look like better working conditions than a lot of Americans have.

[jeff47]

11. And if the TPP only covered the workers in the photo, you might have a point!

But the TPP does reward Malaysian slave owners with lots of US capital.

[Hoyt]

13. No it does not because it increases standards. Most Malaysian workers are not forced labor.

The ones that are, need to have better standards. But, you guys would punish everyone in the country in the mistaken belief it will help you keep your job and a few pennies more an hour, or some such reasoning.

[jeff47]

15. That would be relevant if we have ever attempted to enforce the standards in any previous agreement.

We haven't.

But, you guys would punish everyone in the country in the mistaken belief it will help you keep your job and a few pennies more an hour, or some such reasoning.

No, we think that if you have to say "Most workers are not forced labor" then you shouldn't be giving that country large piles of money.

Also, you're back to insisting trade is a zero-sum game. Kinda demonstrates your argument doesn't quite make sense when you keep insisting it isn't zero-sum in your other posts.

[Hoyt]

16. Why not. The way to stop forced labor is to make it better for the 2/3rds of workers who are not in

that position, so that other workers can get better jobs.

Plus, the TPP and related actions, require Malaysia to make substantial, measurable progress toward eliminating labor abuse. You on the other hand, think punishing everyone by making it worse is acceptable as long as it protects a few pennies for you.

[PowerToThePeople]

17. a little jeff v hoyt here