Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

PowerToThePeople

(9,610 posts)
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 12:35 PM Jun 2015

TPP, because you can too!

Last edited Wed Jun 24, 2015, 10:12 PM - Edit history (1)

You too can become a prosperous owner (manager) of southeast asian labor. Profits are sure to come your way using proven race-to-the-bottom (expenditure lessening) strategies. Get on board with the TPP or get left out of this next century's economic prosperity.





17 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
TPP, because you can too! (Original Post) PowerToThePeople Jun 2015 OP
Fuck azmom Jun 2015 #1
Are you making fun of Asian workers? Hoyt Jun 2015 #2
No PowerToThePeople Jun 2015 #3
Do you know what country they are from? Asians in the better off countries get paid reasonably well Hoyt Jun 2015 #5
Trade does not have to be a zero-sum game. jeff47 Jun 2015 #7
"All Americans" are not going to suffer. In fact, very few even run a small risk of "suffering." Hoyt Jun 2015 #8
Not according to your claims. jeff47 Jun 2015 #10
I'm arguing that greedy Americans will let workers abroad starve if they think it will cost them a Hoyt Jun 2015 #12
So we should measure our own standard of living based on how shitty other people have it? truebrit71 Jun 2015 #14
Really? How did you arrive at that? lonestarnot Jun 2015 #4
Hoyt's standard talking point is we're all xenophobic racists jeff47 Jun 2015 #6
Sort of, and don't leave out Greedy too. The photos are not of Malaysian factory slaves. Hoyt Jun 2015 #9
And if the TPP only covered the workers in the photo, you might have a point! jeff47 Jun 2015 #11
No it does not because it increases standards. Most Malaysian workers are not forced labor. Hoyt Jun 2015 #13
That would be relevant if we have ever attempted to enforce the standards in any previous agreement. jeff47 Jun 2015 #15
Why not. The way to stop forced labor is to make it better for the 2/3rds of workers who are not in Hoyt Jun 2015 #16
a little jeff v hoyt here PowerToThePeople Jun 2015 #17
 

PowerToThePeople

(9,610 posts)
3. No
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 01:06 PM
Jun 2015

I am decrying those that take advantage of anyone else for their own profits. These workers live extremely harsh lives and get next to nothing for their toils, but others profit immensely by the products of their labour.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
5. Do you know what country they are from? Asians in the better off countries get paid reasonably well
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 01:20 PM
Jun 2015

Of course, those in developing countries don't because they need investment for the country to progress. Interesting how many here want to deny them that chance. The TPP will definitely raise standards in the poorest countries, maybe even force China to improve. Yet, that doesn't seem to matter to some here.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
7. Trade does not have to be a zero-sum game.
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 02:03 PM
Jun 2015

It's simplistic to believe all Americans must suffer to improve the lives of other countries.

But it does get you out of the pesky business of having to explain how our current free trade agreements with labor protections aren't doing what this new free trade agreement with labor protections is supposed to do.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
8. "All Americans" are not going to suffer. In fact, very few even run a small risk of "suffering."
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 02:11 PM
Jun 2015

Many more will benefit. And many more in other countries will too.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
10. Not according to your claims.
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 02:15 PM
Jun 2015

You are arguing that we in the US must accept a lower standard of living in order to help slaves in Malaysian sweatshops.

That means we suffer. Either directly via losing our job, or indirectly by lowering our salaries due to more competition for jobs.

Wealth is not zero-sum. You can generate wealth without making anyone worse off. Step 1 would be not rewarding Malaysian slave owners with a giant pile of capital via the TPP.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
12. I'm arguing that greedy Americans will let workers abroad starve if they think it will cost them a
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 02:25 PM
Jun 2015

nickel. It's that simple. You can call it what you want, but fact is most people in poor countries would think they had gone to El Dorado if they had a place to live with running water, a single bathroom, and a wall separating a single bedroom. Our conditions here are much better than that for most people.

Even in Malaysia -- that you guys like to cite -- 2/3rds or more of workers are not working in slavery. Yeah, that 1/3 is awful, and the TPP will likely help them. No TPP, help is less likely.

 

truebrit71

(20,805 posts)
14. So we should measure our own standard of living based on how shitty other people have it?
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 02:33 PM
Jun 2015

What fucking bullshit is this???

Also "greedy Americans"....WTF is this?

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
6. Hoyt's standard talking point is we're all xenophobic racists
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 02:01 PM
Jun 2015

who want other countries to suffer for our personal benefit. He finds it much easier than actually defending the TPP.

So far, he has refused to follow his own demands and reduce his standard of living to a Malaysian factory slave.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
9. Sort of, and don't leave out Greedy too. The photos are not of Malaysian factory slaves.
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 02:13 PM
Jun 2015

In fact, those photos look like better working conditions than a lot of Americans have.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
11. And if the TPP only covered the workers in the photo, you might have a point!
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 02:16 PM
Jun 2015

But the TPP does reward Malaysian slave owners with lots of US capital.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
13. No it does not because it increases standards. Most Malaysian workers are not forced labor.
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 02:27 PM
Jun 2015

The ones that are, need to have better standards. But, you guys would punish everyone in the country in the mistaken belief it will help you keep your job and a few pennies more an hour, or some such reasoning.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
15. That would be relevant if we have ever attempted to enforce the standards in any previous agreement.
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 02:51 PM
Jun 2015

We haven't.

But, you guys would punish everyone in the country in the mistaken belief it will help you keep your job and a few pennies more an hour, or some such reasoning.

No, we think that if you have to say "Most workers are not forced labor" then you shouldn't be giving that country large piles of money.

Also, you're back to insisting trade is a zero-sum game. Kinda demonstrates your argument doesn't quite make sense when you keep insisting it isn't zero-sum in your other posts.
 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
16. Why not. The way to stop forced labor is to make it better for the 2/3rds of workers who are not in
Wed Jun 24, 2015, 03:37 PM
Jun 2015

that position, so that other workers can get better jobs.

Plus, the TPP and related actions, require Malaysia to make substantial, measurable progress toward eliminating labor abuse. You on the other hand, think punishing everyone by making it worse is acceptable as long as it protects a few pennies for you.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»TPP, because you can too!