I'm now officially an Independent voter!

[1000words]

I've come to the conclusion, the future of liberal politics is not the current version of the Democratic Party.

That is all.

[MADem]

1. Have you read the TOS lately...? nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. As long as he does not advocate for anybody outside the Democratic party

he is fine and you know it.

I am also an independent voter. SO THERE. Not that I post much about politics here. and policy rarely. It is a partisan site and we don't do policy here. And the politics are just "lovely" to watch. But hey, as partisanship is an interest of mine and the damage that it is doing... call it research.

Independents are the fastest growing "party" in the US currently. Not that partisans have noticed. Hell, party leaders are still trying to ignore this, on both sides mind you... which is a beautiful thing.

[MADem]

19. You might try re-reading the OP.

He's not getting a lot of "Bye" and "See ya" on this thread because he told us he was going on a cruise.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Yeah, he said he is an indepedent voter

more and more people are reaching the same conclusion. I read the OP, and when people state openly they are people bring out the TOS, as if it was a threat.

Unless he openly says, vote for candidate "Z" running on the poka dot party platform, he is fine. You go on and read the TOS m'kay.

That said, I am sure somebody will come up with the platform for the poka dot party as a joke. Or at least some people should.

[MADem]

21. OK, now go read the TOS. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. I have, and I will repeat myself

UNLESS HE ADVOCATES OPENLY FOR A THIRD PARTY CANDIDATE, NOT VOTING, OR REPUBLICANS, HE IS FINE.

Your threat is predictable and expected though.

[MADem]

29. Now go read the OP again. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. He is NOT advocating for a third party candidate

or the GOP, or staying home. He is telling you that in his view the future of liberal politics is not in the Democratic party. Many people have reached that conclusion.

Please do point in the OP what party he is advocating for, or for that matter the candidate's name.

I will be waiting.

[MADem]

39. He's not advocating for Democrats, either. Go read that post one more time.

I am still waiting for you to respond to that last conversation you ran from. Good thing I didn't hold my breath.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. I gave you my opinion with links

and it will get worst.

So soon I will just leave. And I am far from the only one who sees this MADem, and this is 2008 redux, so it is what it is.

No need to kick me.

But given that you are trying to pull what the petitioners tried with the supreme court regarding the ACA in this case, it is kind of cute.

The rulz are clearer than they used to be, but they have NEVER been interpreted the way you predictably, want to interpret them.

Though we are in purge season, so you might get your wish. And yes, those are also predictable at this site.

And with that, have a good night, I am done with this conversation with you.

[MADem]

103. Enough with the GBCW.

Is that a threat or a promise at this stage of the game?

I really do not care what you do. If you want to leave, stop talking about it and just do it. No one is holding you back. I certainly am not going to plead with you to remain.

I think my interpretation of the TOS is closer to the mark than yours. Skinner, et.al, set this place up to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to public office--not to elect greens, libertarians, independents, and other assorted malcontents who want to shit on/tear apart the party. That goal is what keeps me here.

Of course you're "done." That's generally how all these interactions-- that you initiate with me, not the other way around -- end.

[nadinbrzezinski]

184. And I am just telling you what it is.

You think the dog whistle politics will help your party? Really?

[Mnpaul]

56. he is not advocating for the current version of the Democratic Party

he wants change that you really can believe in.

How dishonest can you get with your rule trolling?

[MADem]

108. We're trying to elect a Democratic President with the DNC we've got. Not some fantasy team. nt

[sabrina 1]

142. He is one of the 90% of DUers who are also advocating for a Democratic President

with or without the DNC. Bernie Sanders, running as a Democrat, has been used btw, by the DNC to raise funds for the DNC.

Do you suggest that all 90% of DUers who are supporting Democratic candidate Bernie Sanders, LEAVE DU? It's a big internet and most of us ARE all over the internet, advocating for our Candidate to be the next Democratic President of the US AND to rid OUR party of the corporate dems who have have led the party to abandon the Working and Middle class.

So, it appears you are incorrect.

[MADem]

145. Bernie Sanders hopped into bed with the DNC--he's, in essence, a brand new member of the Democratic

Party. Formally. Informally, he's been caucusing with them for years, and he traded always voting with the Democrats on procedural issues for commmittee assignments. He's in the club.

If you're supporting Sanders, you are supporting a Democrat. If you're supporting Ralph Nader, Jill Stein, or any other third party spoiler, you're not in accord with the TOS.

[G_j]

163. Oh for Christs sake!

Last edited Fri Jun 26, 2015, 09:08 AM - Edit history (1)

I can't believe what I am reading, he did not break the rules, and what's with the bullying?

[MADem]

164. Christ has nothing to do with it.

It's an "in your face" OP. This is Democratic Underground. It's fine to register as an independent, but to post a declaration along with a sentiment that the party sucks, particularly given the TOS goal to "elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans" is RUDE.

And to point that out isn't bullying--so stop your "bullying," why don't you?

[Exilednight]

166. Good grief, you really are a bully. Your posts are

Just harrassment because someone doesn't pass your party purity test.

[MADem]

168. Just got the memo, did you? Jump right in, now!

Ignore is your friend--heaven knows I wouldn't want your sensibilitlies offended.

Why don't you spend a little time reading the TOS instead of outing yourself...

Exilednight
166. Good grief, you really are a bully. Your posts are
View profile
Just harrassment because someone doesn't pass your party purity test.

This IS "Democratic" Underground--and you're not going to push Democrats out. Talk about harassment! You know a little something about that "bullying" too, I see....

[Exilednight]

170. I don't put people on ignore. I like seeing foolish comments. It's cheap entertainment.

And yes, you are pushing your values on someone else, you're not debating them and drawing conclusions based on evidence.

This party needs to change if wants to survive. Yes, we MAY be able to win the presidency, but that's pointless without Congress and state houses. Republicans have shown the damage they can do with owning state goverents.

Krugman is correct, there is no MOR voter, there are only independents who lean left or right. DNC shills need to stop playing for this imaginary group.

[MADem]

181. I don't like foolish comments either, and bashing, trashing and undermining seems to me to be a

foolish use of anyone's time here.

The party isn't going to change by you scolding people on DU. Get out there and actually do something. Keyboard commandoing, and bullying people, ain't gonna cut it. You've left me unimpressed.

[Exilednight]

189. Says the man who wants to cleanse the party to only DNC purists.

You don't impress me either, but you do make me laugh.

[MADem]

193. Says the poster who made that up out of whole cloth.

I don't think I make you laugh. In fact, I'm sure I don't.

[Exilednight]

195. Actually, you do make me laugh. The fact that you're blunded

By your DNC purity test actually makes me laugh out loud.

I can't take anything you say as serious anymore. On the opposite of serious is?

[MADem]

197. If you say it often enough you might actually believe it.

For someone who is laughing, you're spending a lot of time pointlessly badgering me. I guess that makes you laugh...?

By your words we shall know ye!

[Exilednight]

198. Now you're quoting the book of Matthew. This just keeps getting better. How many more right wing

Tactics do you intend to use?

[MADem]

244. Oh boy, the "Now you're using right wing tactics" diversion!

[Exilednight]

248. When the shoe fits, and this one fits you perfectly.

[MADem]

249. That's your OWN foot you're looking at, there, pal.

Your ineffective insults are noted!

[nadinbrzezinski]

183. Yup, she is one of the people who do a lot of damage to

the brand of well Democrat.

It is even better that she is incapable of seeing it.

[MADem]

190. There you go again! Just can't help yourself, can you?

You clearly know nothing about me--and that post proves it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

192. From where I stand you are

doing a lot of damage to your party brand with these asinine posts. Not that I expect you to own it

[MADem]

194. From where I stand you are doing the same thing that you ALWAYS do.

Over, and over, and over again.

[nadinbrzezinski]

199. You are correct.

I stood up to your harassment and bully behavior of another poster. I represent no one, nor am I partisan. The irony is that as independents continue to grow, partisans like you will increasingly need us. It is a nice place to sit at actually.

But your dog whistle politics belongs in the last century. Testing those talking points here is kind of cute and predictable. But in the wider world it will cost votes, I guarantee it.

As to here, me leaving is a statement of where people like you want to take the party to...back to the future. And it is not a GBCW statement either. Believe it or not, there is a whole world out there. A beautiful world in fact, where people are quite frankly not obsesses with this war, that has made DC dysfunctional. Now, now Republicans have the lion's share on that one, but democrats and party partisans are not quite innocent lambs to the slaughter.

I do not expect this to make you think...that is not possible. But when you bully somebody I will challenge you. That is a promise. You are right, I am doing what I always do. See I own it.

But people like you are actually one reason, minor, that I left the Democratic Party. I left over chiefly policy differences with well, the Third Way and the DLC. It is not that I changed, but pray tell me why should I support a right wing party with money, time and effort? Incidentally that is one reason I no longer give money to Skinner, a party operative.

[MADem]

245. You're just angry at yourself, not me.

You ran away from an argument that you lost, and you blame me for it. No one 'harassed' or 'bullied' you, but don't expect to be taken seriously if you make statements and, when challenged, refuse to prove them.

You aren't "challenging" me, in fact, you're doing the very opposite.... but if you want/need to think so, knock yourself out.



You left the Democratic Party? Really? Is that like you're "leaving" DU? Do you want a round of applause, or something? You can do whatever you'd like--no one is stopping you.

And you call Skinner a "party operative?" And you do it in his house, too? There's some of that classic courtesy you are so well known for!!!

I'm betting he really wishes he gets paid for that!




This is a keeper! So many insults and revelations, all wrapped up in one post!!

99. You are correct.
View profile
I stood up to your harassment and bully behavior of another poster. I represent no one, nor am I partisan. The irony is that as independents continue to grow, partisans like you will increasingly need us. It is a nice place to sit at actually.

But your dog whistle politics belongs in the last century. Testing those talking points here is kind of cute and predictable. But in the wider world it will cost votes, I guarantee it.

As to here, me leaving is a statement of where people like you want to take the party to...back to the future. And it is not a GBCW statement either. Believe it or not, there is a whole world out there. A beautiful world in fact, where people are quite frankly not obsesses with this war, that has made DC dysfunctional. Now, now Republicans have the lion's share on that one, but democrats and party partisans are not quite innocent lambs to the slaughter.

I do not expect this to make you think...that is not possible. But when you bully somebody I will challenge you. That is a promise. You are right, I am doing what I always do. See I own it.

But people like you are actually one reason, minor, that I left the Democratic Party. I left over chiefly policy differences with well, the Third Way and the DLC. It is not that I changed, but pray tell me why should I support a right wing party with money, time and effort? Incidentally that is one reason I no longer give money to Skinner, a party operative.

You keep saying you are leaving....yet here you are, with yet another GBCW statement. Pat yourself on the back!!!

[nadinbrzezinski]

246. If you want to pretend I am angry

well that is your fantasy, not mine.

have a good day. We had an excellent day at the County Fair. It was nice, cool and we got treated to quite the show.

I recommend getting out and away from politics a tad more often. It is healthy.

Oh and MADem I am registered, thankfully, as a declined to state voter in the State of Calfiornia. I am one of those pesky independents that YOUR PARTY needs to remain competitive, the way the laws work now in my state.

We independents really like it that way.



You might want to check as to why. But we are really enjoying it. And as non partisan press, I get everybody's crap, which is useful. I wonder if I got the mailer from the RNC... really curious as to the half of the slate I apparently missed.

[MADem]

250. I'm not pretending, you're very transparent. Guess you changed your mind, eh?

You're still here, and you're recommending that "I" get out more?

Why don't you take your own advice...or are you waiting for some "Please stay" pleas from your latest GBCW?

[nadinbrzezinski]

251. So you are telling me that I am angry

I guess your other skill is mind reading, and you should get it really calibrated. Becuase you know what? It is not working.

But as I said, if you want to pretend I am angry (a bully technique to tell the bullied how they are supposed to feel) well that is your issue.

What can I say? At this point I am truly laughing at you, not with you, AT YOU. Because you are hilarious. (And I do not mean that in a good way)

[MADem]

252. You keep seeking me out--not the other way around, mind you--and yelling at me.

So yeah, I think "angry" is a fair conclusion to make!

It's not mind reading when you see something happening right in front of you. All I am doing is pointing out your conduct.

And when you seek me out (again, not the other way around), yell at me, and I respond to your "commentaries," you can call it "bullying" all you want, but I'd say you probably need to grab your dictionary and recheck the meaning of that word.

What can you say? No one said you had to say anything to me at all--that was your choice. You keep seeking me out and giving me the business, of your own volition...when I truly wouldn't mind if you never spoke to me. I wouldn't miss it. Yet here you are, again.

And since I really don't care what you have to say, why would I care if you said you were "laughing" at me?

Your conduct IS curious, though. Since you keep coming at me, I'm going to keep pointing it out.

[nadinbrzezinski]

253. You are not going on ignore so you know this

and when you bully somebody else, you are going to get called on it. Which is precisely how this "conversation" started.

You tried to use the rulz, not the way are written, or how they been interpreted now for close to two decades.

What you did is bullying. It blew in your face. And quite honestly, others told you that YOU ARE A BULLY. Stop acting like one and none will call you on it. And I will not have to call you on it either.

Deal. Don't act like a bully and I can pretend you don't exist.

[MADem]

254. There you go again! Did I ask you for anything? No, I did not. Yet here you are,

pretending that I did, using the faux "bully" word as you posture aggressively on the internet! Sorry--I do not acknowledge or accept your false characterization. Your descriptions are accurate to your own behavior, not mine. You don't want grief? Stop giving it to me!

Is that so hard?

Now you're using clever misspellings in the crafting of your strawmen! Ooooh, the "rulz!" Weren't they popular amongst teens in the nineties, or something?

[nadinbrzezinski]

255. Nope, I am not doing a thing

just told you what to do

And you are throwing a spell flame? Now that one is OOOOLLLLLDDDDD... it goes to the early years of the Internetz...

Waiting for your smart answer... please proceed governor.

[MADem]

256. You sought me out, and you repeatedly tell me how much you dislike me.

Over, and over, and over again. Not sure what I've done to earn your enthusiasm this week, and I really don't care, either.

Nope, I am not doing a thing

just told you what to do

Priceless!

You are the architect of your own misery or happiness, you know.

My observation was less about spelling than it was to do with the immature habit of teenagers a decade or two ago to put a "Z" on the end of everything, to make it "cool." They also used K instead of C or CH in similar fashion, e.g. "Kool Kidz" instead of "Cool Kids" or "Skool Boyz" instead of "School Boys." That kind of thing doesn't impress me, because I am not, nor have I ever been, a 1990s era teenager.

If you don't want me to respond to you, stop with the snark and name calling. If you are playing a goad and bait game, perhaps so you think you'll be regarded as one of the "Kool Kidz," well, keep it up. Show yourself off, so that there's no doubt. Makes no difference to me.

Bottom line is this: You have the power!!

[nadinbrzezinski]

257. Here we go back to my imaginary misery

You really need to get that mind reading device looked at. It is NOT working.



I shall await for the next attempt at baiting.

[MADem]

258. More snark. I'm not reading your mind. You are communicating to everyone where your head is at! nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

259. Cute

at least we are leaving the obvious baiting now...

[MADem]

260. You have the power, now. It's all up to you! nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

261. Now we are to cute talking points

But please proceed, may you have the last word.

[MADem]

262. There are no talking points in that post.

You started in insulting me, and now you're just ineffectually baiting.

You are the one who has sought me out lately, as you did in this thread.

I don't seek you out, and I avoid initiating conversations with you because experience has shown they're a complete waste of time.

Any time we communicate, it's because YOU initiate the conversation.

Anyone can see what you've written. Your posts are not invisible.

[Exilednight]

191. That is the irony of it. I don't agree with a lot of people on here, but I don't try and chase them

Away either.

[G_j]

175. harassment?

Bullying? You wouldn't know about that...

[MADem]

177. But you and your tag team pal sure would!

[G_j]

178. that's funny

still a FAIL. I have no tag team. I call it how I see it, and having been here for a long time, I've seen a lot! You're not fooling anyone.

[MADem]

179. Of course not--you're just accidental Bobsey twins!

You're not fooling anyone, either.

[G_j]

185. You jumped onto this thread

completely misrepresenting the rules and advocating that the person who wrote the OP be purged. You are attacking independents and saying they should not be allowed on DU. FAIL

[MADem]

187. No, I didn't. You should check YOURSELF, since you're so concerned. nt

[G_j]

174. Whatever,

maybe you convinced yourself lol

[NuclearDem]

42. When you make it clear you're permanently ditching the party

then that either means you're advocating staying home or voting for someone other than a Democrat.

Sorry, we're not stupid enough to not be able to read between those lines.

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. You do know that the RULZ you are in love with

have never, ever, like ever been interpreted that way.

You have a slew of people still posting here WHO ARE NOT DEMOCRATS. I know you all would love to kick those folks out, but the rules are as I stated... not as you think.

And they were even less clear in the past.

Have a good day. I just love the predictability of this.

[NuclearDem]

45. Gotta fight for your right to post on DU!

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. I gotta fight for nothing

once again, as long as he does not do the things stated in the TOS, he is quite fine thank you very much.

And as to who people vote for, I do believe that the vote is secret under United Staes law and tradition.

[NuclearDem]

49. "I do believe that the vote is sacred under United Staes law and tradition."

Good for you then, I guess. I do too, but that doesn't really mean diddly on a private website.

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. Actually on a private website you cannot force me to tell you q

who I voted for. It is that simple under US Law

There is precedent on this one.

http://scholarship.law.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=4461&context=penn_law_review

http://www.courier-journal.com/story/opinion/contributors/2014/10/15/constitutional-right-secret-ballot/17297235/

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2008/10/13/rock-paper-scissors

You might want to get educated on this. And come the electoral season, I will vote, but who I vote for, is my business.

There is more, I no longer donate to any campaign. We run a non partisan media site. So we can't.

Pesky ethics, I know.

[NuclearDem]

66. Yeah, and I didn't try to force you to tell me who you voted for.

Nor anyone else.

You might want to get educated on what I actually wrote.

[nadinbrzezinski]

67. predictable

[NuclearDem]

69. You being absolutely wrong and getting called on it?

You betcha.

[nadinbrzezinski]

71. irony meter is breaking

[NuclearDem]

72. Still haven't forced you or anyone else to reveal who you voted for.

You might want to get that meter calibrated.

[nadinbrzezinski]

73. correction, broken beyond repair

[NuclearDem]

74. Don't worry, I'm certain you know how to fix it.

And while this has been lovely, I'm going to go ahead and grant you the unique privilege of being the only person on my ignore list now.

[nadinbrzezinski]

76. no need

[G_j]

165. nice try

what's with the bullying?

and yes, that is Exactly what it is.

Though, the person you picked is not phased by bullying.

[villager]

90. Shit, we have people who can't even vote in America posting here. Guess we should purge 'em too?

Since the Cotton Mathers around here are already in a purge-y kind of mood?

[NuclearDem]

141. Why should we expect non-Americans to vote Democrat?

[villager]

216. So, to be clear, the opinion of a non-American non-voter means more to you than someone trying

...to return the Democratic party to the roots of what it stood for?

[brooklynite]

78. I'm not going to ask you to read the TOS...

I'm going to ask you why you're hanging out here.

I'm sure there's a progressive movement blog where you won't have to sully yourself with people who believe in working within the Party for change.

[nadinbrzezinski]

84. Well, my friend

Let me ask you a question, since you have the ears of many in leadership, or so you claim. Tell me, why is the party (and it is both to be accurate) ignoring the fact that independents are the fastest growing segment of US Voters?

I realize this is too complex of a question to be honest... and one that many partisans do not want to even consider. But I find that to be quite puzzling honestly, because we are at one of those moments in US History.

As to the TOS... we already went through that. I am not going to that again.

[fizzgig]

91. i have never been a registered dem, but i have ALWAYS voted dem

i knocked on doors for obama in 2008, i phone banked for the county dems last year.

being registered unaffiliated/independent does not mean you advocate staying home nor does it mean voting for someone other than a democrat.

[1000words]

98. I believe you to be far from stupid ...

And yet, the possibility of an Independent voter casting their ballot for a Democrat has somehow eluded
your thoughtfully deduced conclusions.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

30. We have always had users who were not registered Democrats.

We've even had Independent and Green liberals who made it clear they would not vote for the Democratic nominee. It has always been that, so long as they do not actively advocate for a non-Democratic candidate on the boards, they can post here. Hell, we've even had a Republican or two over the years posting here regularly.

[PowerToThePeople]

35. There are still at least several Republicans here.

They do not openly state it though.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. i know, why this bringing up the RULZ is kind of hysterical

at this point.

[MADem]

41. And once primary season begins in earnest, those anti-Dems need to be silent.

That's in the TOS. If they're bashing and trashing, the admins assume they are working for the other side.

The goal here is to elect Democrats--not greens, not independents.

[TM99]

65. No, it is the general election.

But when general election season begins, DU members must support Democratic nominees (EXCEPT in rare cases where a non-Democrat is most likely to defeat the conservative alternative, or where there is no possibility of splitting the liberal vote and inadvertently throwing the election to the conservative alternative). For presidential contests, election season begins when both major-party nominees become clear. For non-presidential contests, election season begins on Labor Day.

I am also an independent. We will be deciding this election so tread carefully.

[840high]

85. So am I.

[MADem]

99. Yes, you're right--but no one should be advocating for Republicans, here, ever.

OR "third party spoilers." The goal is to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans. That's in the TOS, too.

Don't be a wingnut (right-wing or extreme-fringe).
Democratic Underground is an online community for politically liberal people who understand the importance of working within the system to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of political office. Teabaggers, Neo-cons, Dittoheads, Paulites, Freepers, Birthers, and right-wingers in general are not welcome here. Neither are certain extreme-fringe left-wingers, including advocates of violent political/social change, hard-line communists, terrorist-apologists, America-haters, kooks, crackpots, LaRouchies, and the like.

Vote for Democrats.
Winning elections is important — therefore, advocating in favor of Republican nominees or in favor of third-party spoiler candidates that could split the vote and throw an election to our conservative opponents is never permitted on Democratic Underground.

I don't need to "tread carefully." I live in MA.

What an odd threat to make!

[TM99]

100. I have never seen anyone

who wasn't immediately tombstoned advocate for any Republican candidate.

I may vote third party if Clinton is the Democratic nominee but I would hardly advocate a particular candidate here. I will simply depart until after the election.

So your 'warning' really didn't need to be given.

It wasn't a threat, I made, it was a statement of fact. Clinton and her supporters fail to recognize the sheer number of independents in this country, a growing number of whom are disaffected leftists and once registered Democrats. The party faithful, even with full voter turn out, can not alone carry the general. It is us who need to be recognized and convinced.

Clinton not coming to Netroots Nation in Phoenix speaks volumes to me about her inability to get this simple mathematical truth.

[MADem]

104. It's often not "full frontal." It's usually done by spreading FUD.

The admins have tombstoned thousands of concern trolls, "just sayin'" types, stinky linky clowns (Did you see this article in the Washington Times?) and outright purveyors of the GOP platform.

If you vote third party, you're outta the political conversations. You do know that, I assume. You'll have to stick to the lounge until the festivities finish up.

But when general election season begins, DU members must support Democratic nominees (EXCEPT in rare cases where a non-Democrat is most likely to defeat the conservative alternative, or where there is no possibility of splitting the liberal vote and inadvertently throwing the election to the conservative alternative). For presidential contests, election season begins when both major-party nominees become clear.

[TM99]

106. FUD is in the eye of the beholder

and always has been. Your FUD is my legitimate concerns and criticisms and certainly vice versa.

I have no problem leaving for a few months if I must. I respect boundaries.

[MADem]

107. No, really, it isn't.

Those of us who have been here for a long time can smell it and spot it from a mile away.

It's also pretty easy to spot a re-tread, a sock, or a zombie. Often hard to prove, but when--as inevitably happens--the person posts drunk, gets sloppy, or reveals him or herself in other ways and gets the boot, it's not an AH HA moment--it's more of an Ummm Hmmm Oh, Yeah one.

You don't have to leave, you just have to refrain from advocacy. That's difficult for some people, not so hard for others.

[TM99]

112. I briefly had an account on DU

over a decade ago. I lurked then until I rejoined and started posting several years ago.

Legitimate criticism has recently been called trolling and FUD when it is most decidedly not.

We will have to agree to disagree I suppose.

[MADem]

119. I think we will. nt

[demmiblue]

173. There is a huge number of DUers who are not registered Democrats...

There are 22 states that do not give an option to chose party affiliation when registering to vote. As a Michigander, I am one of them.

[NaturalHigh]

25. You are correct.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. They are so predictable it is not even funny

[LWolf]

231. Authoritarian partisans

are never going to acknowledge what you are pointing out, truth or not.

[nadinbrzezinski]

235. At this point it is quite the joke

Though. I can set my watch.

[LWolf]

238. Yes.

[Orsino]

161. So alert on the OP. n/t

[NuclearDem]

2. Bye then!

[ismnotwasm]

3. See ya!

Or not I guess.

[Peacetrain]

4. okay..

[villager]

5. In terms of elected officials, the "Democrats" we now have are mostly "Republicans,"

....as the term was formerly understood. Today's "Republicans" are a far-right fascist group -- Birchers, etc.

This has been our "choice."

It's a good question about where the future of progressive politics really lays, and whether the structure of the (former) Democratic party can be rehabilitated.

[Historic NY]

70. Its not up to you to decide it, the party as a whole will...

if you don't support the Democratic Party or its platform when its decided then perhaps another party suits you more. You want to rehabilitate...when 85% of the liberal democrats still support the president along with 66% of the conservatives democrats..That may be you opinion and it a minority..

[villager]

88. actually, based on the large numbers of people not inspired to vote, I'm scarcely a "minority"

...your condescension -- i.e., the exact thing that blinders the party now -- aside.

Whereas I always vote, it's clear that the Democratic rightward drift hasn't really been a winning strategy, in terms of Congress, state houses, etc...

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

156. The platform is pretty good.

It's the candidates who fail to live up to it that are a problem. And they're not chosen by 'the party as a whole'.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Welcome to the "party"

this will only accelerate.

[Hekate]

8. You're obviously not long for DU, per the TOS. Whither then?

[Bobbie Jo]

9. I like red licorice.

[betsuni]

97. I am now officially a Red Vines voter!

I've come to the conclusion, the future of red licorice is not the current version of Twizzlers. That is all.

[Cali_Democrat]

10. Good riddance. nt

[NaturalHigh]

13. Classy as always, I see.

[SidDithers]

32. +1...nt

Sid

[Cha]

38. Jury results..

ou served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Jun 25, 2015, 09:57 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: It's not only rude, but in a larger sense, self-defeating. Democrats need independent voters, too.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: LOL
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This IS petty and rude, but not a call-out or name-call, so I think it can stay.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: If you have nothing to ad to discussion, don't say anything.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: the OP is leaving the Dems.. and this poster had an opinion on that. Don't be so thin skinned alerter.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Rude, but not over the top Rude. Being a host almost made me change it. Still voting to Leave It with a rec to self delete or edit.

Cali

[William769]

95. ...

[hrmjustin]

102. .

[sheshe2]

265. KnR!

Brava!

[hobbit709]

11. My position hasn't changed, the Democratic Party has moved well to the right from me.

[haikugal]

53. Exactly!

[BainsBane]

126. Since when?

When was it left? You're in Texas? Was it better when yours was a single party state and Mexican-Americans weren't allowed to vote?

You see, I know a bit about US history and even Texas history, and there was no "left" Democratic party ever in this country. Never. There was a segregationist party, however. There was a period when the party ensured that the white middle class prospered at the expense of the majority. There was never anything left about that. It may have benefited you, but it wasn't left. It fought the left through the Cold War. It imprisoned and deported leftist activists. There has NEVER been a major party on the left in this country. There were once two parties that elevated the few above the many because of skin color, gender, and sexuality.

[hobbit709]

139. I said MY position hasn't changed.

As far as the Cold War goes, some of my earliest memories are of the occupation troops in my hometown.
I lived in the American sector of Vienna, most of my relatives lived in the Soviet sector. I remember going through the checkpoints-me even as a baby with an American passport and my mother with her Austrian papers.

I was raised a Socialist, I'm a Democrat by default since there is no viable Socialist option in the U.S.

So my views have always been leftist, even back in 1968, when I first voted. The party's position have moved steadily rightward, I haven't. Of course the Republican party has moved completely out of the ball park on the right.

There's TX and there's what was known as the People's Republic of Austin.

[MADem]

149. I have to laugh at all the people who hold up FDR as a flawless paragon, and fail to credit a

bunch of racist segregationist DEMOCRATS from the South who played a huge role in passing a lot of his key legislative successes. But he was "so much better" because....errrr....he didn't sit on his ass during the worst economic downturn in the nation's history.

I didn't see FDR desegregating anything, never mind the Armed Forces. He used the N word privately, and his views on Jews would curl your hair.

People put on rose colored glasses and talk about the good old days, back when women couldn't get a loan on their own credit rating, were paid less than men, and fired when a man "who needed to support a family" needed a job and there weren't enough to go around. Yeah, the good old days!!

It's hilarious, the blinders some wear.

[City Lights]

162. Yep. That's how I feel, too. nt

[JaneyVee]

12. So now you're free to vote Republican.

[Ed Suspicious]

68. Always was. Your post comes off as asinine.

[davidpdx]

105. Asinine is perhaps a softer version of what I would call it

[840high]

79. lalala-lala

[Codeine]

14. Tacos rule. nt

[CK_John]

15. IMO, it just an excuse for the inability to make a decision.

[RiverLover]

16. Me too, 1000!

Its strange, but its better than pretending the Democratic Party is working FDR Democratic principles anymore.

[we can do it]

17. Smegma

[GusBob]

18. I am a registered Independant as well

Makes living in a swing district in a swing state very interesting.....come election time

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. That it does

I get ALL the crap... from both major parties and the minor ones too.

It is fun.

[NaturalHigh]

23. In my state, independents can't vote in any primaries.

It's like they penalize independents out of half the voting process.

[Art_from_Ark]

33. In Arkansas, there are open primaries

Not that it means that much anymore, since it seems like the state Democratic Party tries to weed out the liberal candidates even before the primaries begin.

[davidpdx]

116. It's funny you aren't getting all the crap that others are

It goes to show how bias the particular people are in this thread who are giving people shit. And how much they like to bully others.

[BainsBane]

122. Maybe because he didn't post an OP?

[davidpdx]

125. Other people who stated the same thing in the thread got crap as well

Keep flapping your mouth because your bias reeks like a dead corps.

[BainsBane]

128. Yes, the terrible indignity

of my bias, and the other 10 percent of the site who support Clinton, compared to the 90 percent who support Sanders. Yet that 90 percent is terribly oppressed by the mere presence of a few people who disagree with them. Imagine their nerve in not doing your bidding by failing to attack someone with the demon avatar. The horror.

The charms of positivism become you. Your contempt for the democratic rights of your fellow citizens is duly noted.

[davidpdx]

130. 10% my ass

Are you still making the ridiculous claim that all the Clinton supporters have left DU? What was it you said...oh yes I remember now.

Here:

Given that I am one of about 10-15 Clinton supporters on this site, I think I would have been cued into this conspiracy.

Keep on flapping..........

[Autumn]

196. Many Clinton supporters have left DU. The admins here built them a new site.

[appalachiablue]

207. The new hillarymojo.com site is very well done and good for supporters.

hillarymojo.com,

http://www.hillarymojo.com/2015/06/26/hillary-clinton-celebrates-historic-scotus-marriage-equality-ruling/

[Autumn]

208. I haven't seen it or been there, for obvious reasons.

I am not a supporter of hers and I wouldn't want to intrude where I don't belong.

[appalachiablue]

210. Same here, I don't visit but have to say it looks like a quality production that's

a boon to any candidate. But there are many ways to reach people as we know.

[Autumn]

211. Yes there are many ways and we and

Bernie are doing fine and as time goes by more and more people will be reached.

[appalachiablue]

213. Is this what you mean?

Bernie Sanders Remix by Maculate

[davidpdx]

219. The original claim is they have been driven from the site which I think is bullshit

In terms of their new site, this sums up my thoughts:

[Autumn]

222. Yes that is special

They weren't driven off .

[davidpdx]

225. Finally someone who can see the truth

instead of spewing lies

[Autumn]

226. It's all nonsense, no one should ever be hurt by words on a screen

and for them to say OMG you guys are so mean, all the while bullying anyone they can, is nothing more than drama. And some posters here love their drama, so much they spread it around to different sites.

[Sheepshank]

239. So then why do you ban people from the Bernie group

Why did you ban me when I didn't even use words?

Such hypocritical statements

[sheshe2]

266. Ouch.

That is going to leave a mark, Sheepshank.

[Autumn]

269. Something like sheepshanks remark to me may obviously leave a mark on you, like Will's

comment did but those things don't bother me at all she. No marks here People I know ? I give a shit about what they say. Others? Who cares, I have no fucks to give

[Violet_Crumble]

267. You did use words, and no-one claimed to be hurt by them...

So, where's the hypocrisy?

[Sheepshank]

270. All I did was Repost jury results...where the alert failed against one of your own

I served on that jury and voted not to hide the comment. The subject line had "lol".....the alerter failed. That's it nothing else.

Your moderator claimed that I used smilies...a lie. Your moderator claimed that people on the board were "offended" so yeah, you continue the hypocrisy. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to clarify. Hey...go look it up if you want to verify the veracity of my statement.

[Autumn]

268. Is this your way of petitioning to have your block lifted?

If not you are just harassing me.

[Sheepshank]

271. I already sent you an email at the time, you chose to ignore

Harassing is in the eye of the beholder....I felt unduly judged and harassed. An apology would be nice.......or perhaps some honesty in clarifying your statement above.

[Autumn]

272. I explained to you about the e mail,have a nice day, I'm done with this issue.

[Sheepshank]

273. Ok then, let's hope you don't make future statements...

.....that don't square with you actions, so I won't have to bring up the subject anymore.

[Autumn]

274. I'm sorry you were hurt by my words that you read and by being blocked from a group.

Hows that?

[Sheepshank]

275. I was humbled and appreciative...right up until the smilie

Got it

[Cha]

132. I'm sorry that poster was so over the top rude to you, BB. It's pathetic how mean spirited some

people are over this primary.. and it's only late June 2015!

[betsuni]

133. I'm sorry too -- somebody is awfully cranky tonight!

Called other people bullies twice in this thread, and this sentence: "Keep flapping your mouth because your bias reeks like a dead corps." Corps of what? Peace Corps? Marine Corps? Corps de ballet? If it was supposed to be a "dead corpse" then how redundant. Maybe dead carp? I guess we'll never really know for sure.

[Cha]

134. Such "bias"! "..reeks like a dead corpse"! My my my that's some bias

right there. Speaking of "bullies".

Good thing there's no"bias" in Bernie's camp.

[BainsBane]

135. It's kind of incredible to me. All over politicians.

I respect anyone's right to support any candidate they choose in the primary. I will say if they don't support a Democrat in the general, that I have trouble respecting. But I don't understand that level of incivility over a politician. I just don't get it.

Thanks, Cha.

[davidpdx]

217. Oh god, I hurt someone's feelings

Well shit Cha, how many times has one of the Hillary Clinton supporters gone off on me or someone else? I've never seen you jump to anyone else's defense unless they 100% agreed with you lock step. When someone continues to make false claims in what the post I pointed it out.

[JI7]

138. this website and forum was created with a bias for the democratic party

[davidpdx]

220. I'm talking about the person's bias

not the website's.

[JI7]

236. the persons bias fits the bias the website

[davidpdx]

240. No, you aren't following the conversation

Either go back and look from the beginning when it started to understand the context or simply stop commenting.

[GusBob]

147. I stated why I registered that way

Swing district swing state. It makes election time more interesting. Last election I was polled by CBS. A producer called me back and asked me to be on a broadcast segment which I declined.

I have always voted Dem in a national election

[davidpdx]

224. To be clear I wasn't claiming you did otherwise

Just pointing out that anyone else gets shit for it and you get a pass because you support Clinton.

[MADem]

150. It has everything to do with starting a thread, proudly telling Democrats at Democratic Underground

what, in essence, he thinks of their party. This site was founded to elect more Democrats to public office. The post comes off as rude.

[davidpdx]

223. Yes and as I pointed out a Hillary Clinton supporter said the same thing

and nary a word was said. Again, if it stinks like a dead corps..........

[MADem]

230. Your argument, then, is "Two wrongs make a right?" nt

[davidpdx]

241. It certainly seems to be the attitude you have on DU

You attack and bully people all the time.

[MADem]

243. I refute suppositions with facts. If that's "attacking and bullying" you are a

rather sensitive individual, indeed.

[BrotherIvan]

26. Love how all the authoritarians had to come out and

remind you of the RULZ and then grave dance. An exercise in DU class I tell ya. No mention of policy or the future of the party. Because that's not what they do...

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. They are NOT interested

(both parties here) as to why people are concluding that party membership will get them nothing but headaches. Or worst, why people have concluded voting is an exercise in futility. I do, but just to remain in practice.

[BrotherIvan]

52. Because it's just a fan club for some

And cheering on a celebrity pol is far more important than the effects of that politician's policy. See current threads on TPP.

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. Correct

[840high]

81. You are spot on.

[Doctor_J]

215. it's pretty easy to tell that Obama is the only one that some have voted for

That explains their far right corporate views, and their obsession with Clinton.

[Blue_Tires]

263. Guess I missed the OP's in-depth analysis of policy and the party's future...

Maybe you could point it out for me?

[demmiblue]

27. Oh.

[hrmjustin]

36. Your right to do so but I think you are wrong.

[1000words]

109. I'll take that as "Good riddance."

Of course, you're much too classy to write it ... but you sure seem to agree with the sentiment.



http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6905922

[hrmjustin]

111. You can take it how you like.

[hrmjustin]

113. But to be fair being an independent is not against the rules.

[HERVEPA]

40. So you live in a state where you can vote in the primary?

[Le Taz Hot]

44. Pay no attention to the naysayers.

The rules say NOTHING about DUers having to be a Democrat. There are lots of us.

[NuclearDem]

47. Which is why the site's called AnyPartyYouFeelLikeUnderground.

[Le Taz Hot]

57. Feel free to post a link to the section in the rules

saying anyone who posts here must be a registered Democrat.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

167. Please post the link LTH asked for. Thanks. nt

[NuclearDem]

169. Yeah, never said anything about it being in the rules.

[Le Taz Hot]

171. So, you're saying that anyone can post here

even though the name of the site isn't AnyPartyYouFeelLikeUnderground.

Thanks.

[1000words]

50. The way I see it, nothing has changed.

They hated me when I was a bleeding-heart liberal Democrat, too.

Whatevs ...

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. LMAO

[1000words]

60. Actually, something did likely change ...

A bold line has been added under my name, on the purge list.

[nadinbrzezinski]

62. Welcome to the club

[Mnpaul]

63. Don't let them get you down

The authoritarian Dems want you to march in lockstep like the Republicans. They will never understand true liberals and why that will never happen. Keep fighting the good fight and take your victories where you can, be it local or national.

[1000words]

64. Get me down? ... never.

[PatrickforO]

58. I don't get this entire thread.

The future of liberal politics is NOT the current version of the Democratic Party - that's absolutely true, particularly after this TPA debacle.

Then all the people in the thread seem to be splitting hairs about whether you as an independent voter can or cannot be depending on if you're supporting a third party candidate.

Geez. We're cool. 1000words doesn't have to be or do anything. My hope is that he/she will look at what each candidate has done in their career, as opposed to what they say, and vote his/her conscience. That's what I'm gonna do.

[jeff47]

204. The DLC-style strategy relies on "who else you gonna vote for?"

As a result, practitioners of that strategy are very concerned when people start figuring out alternatives to that threat. If it stops working, they can't keep pandering to the right. So lots of sound and fury about anyone not respecting the threat.

(They haven't quite noticed that abysmal turnout demonstrates this threat stopped working a long time ago)

[hay rick]

59. Independent? LOL.

In my state (Florida) "Independent" is a party- famously, the party of Pat Robertson. If you want to disassociate yourself from affiliation with any party you have to register as NPA- no party affiliation.

If you live in a closed primary state (like Florida) you are shutting yourself out of half of the political process- the primaries. Because fewer people vote in primaries, your franchise is much more important in those contests than in the general election. You are also setting up a self-fulfilling prophecy- the Democratic candidate will not be sufficiently "liberal" for your liking in part because you declined the opportunity to help select the candidate.

A more liberal third-party candidate can only take votes away from the Democratic candidate and help the less liberal Republican candidate. Again- I live in Florida...

Perhaps you can magically help create an instantly popular third party that will halt and (praise the Lord!) reverse America's sickening slide into plutocracy- but I wouldn't count on it. In the real world I believe the only CONSTRUCTIVE option is to work to reclaim the Democratic party.

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. And in california that is decline to state

and at least California has not just open primaries, but it really gets odd. (Ironically thanks to republicans) Long story.

[MisterP]

77. just FYI, third parties didn't take the vote in FL 2000

[WillyT]

75. Psst... I Tried To Do That... And My 86 Year Old Mom Gave Me The Major Stink-Eye...

She Lived through The Depression and WWII...

Still has books of rationing coupons.

Yet... the reality is... We Are All... Independent Voters.

Once you are in that booth... It's all yours... and all up to you.

[Ed Suspicious]

110. Party membership is just another loyalty pledge. I self identify as a democrat. I am definitely to

the left of moderate Bernie, but have always held that my vote can go to anyone who I deem worthy. 99% of the time, when the choice is Democratic candidate vs Republican candidate, the Democratic candidate is going to get my vote, but I will never offer that vote up without them having to work for it. When the democratic candidate stops working for me and my interest, they should know that this voter and likely others will take their votes to a more responsive candidate.

I don't give much a shit about labels. I'll vote for whomever represents me most effectively. So usually I vote for democrats, but I'll always remain independent.

[GaYellowDawg]

80. Woo hoo!

Now you can start posting on Independent Underground!!

[pnwmom]

82. Fine. Please stay out of the Democratic primary. Thank you. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

86. If he lives in California

sorry, they are open, for ALL parties.

They get downright weird for local and state elections and you want independents voting for your candidate by the way, if you want your candidate to make it to the General.

By the way, knowing why it was pushed, the Republican Party owes me a few irony meters.

[TM99]

87. Hell no.

As a left leaning independent, the primary is one of the very few times my voice might get heard.

And this time around, there is actually a progressive liberal vying for the Democratic slot in the general.

So sorry, but I and others like me will be voting in this Democratic primary season.

[Le Taz Hot]

152. No . . .

Each state has it's own rules re primaries. IF the poster is in California, for example, the Democrats have decided that if you are a) a registered Democrat or b) registered as No Party Affiliation, then you can vote in their primary.

I might suggest a little education on primary voting before you start giving people "advice."

Luckily, very smart people in the Bernie Group have a pinned post about this complete with a link to your state primaries rules.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12804841

[fizzgig]

83. i have been a registered unaffiliated my whole adult life

can't put into words why and i've never voted republican, it's just what i've chosen.

i am, however, going to register as a dem so i can caucus come february.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

92. I know a lot of liberals who feel the Dems need to earn their vote.

[davidpdx]

115. Which is the way it should be

The purity and loyalty oath police on this site are disgusting bullies.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

118. Most Liberals today haven't even HEARD of the PFP....

[davidpdx]

120. You can count me as one of those as well

That's a new one on me. You learn something new everyday.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

136. They ran Roseanne Barr for President in 2012....

Cindy Sheehan was to be her Vice President.

http://www.peaceandfreedom2012.org/

[davidpdx]

218. Oh ok, I DO remember seeing that in the voter's guide

[rep the dems]

93. 15 recs for this?

Don't understand this place sometimes

[840high]

94. Good decision.

[Mother Of Four]

96. I've said it every season -

Independents are needed to get the election. Just because there's an (I) in text doesn't mean a person doesn't have a populist heart or drive to make our world better. DU is a small slice, just please remember the Democratic Party at its core is supposed to be a welcoming and very very large tent. Think the Tardis with stripes We have to follow through and hold politicians feet to the fire and make sure THEY follow through on standing for the people, instead of for fat cats. You can do that whatever the letter is on paper.

[BainsBane]

101. Did you change your party registration?

Do you live in a closed primary state?

[Cheese Sandwich]

114. Congratulations and welcome to the club!

I have been one for a few years now.

Some say it actually helps you sleep better at night.

[1000words]

117. Mmmmmmm .... cheese sandwich

[BainsBane]

121. It means only a couple of things

1) One does not participate in determining the direction of the party or its platforum
2) One does don't vote in primaries
3) One is either a swing voter or a Republican.

As a US citizen, all of those are entirely within your rights. You can vote or not vote for whomever you choose, join or not join whichever party you choose. But then when one isn't a Democrat, they have no reason to lecture Democrats about the direction of a party they are not part of, now do they?

[Cheese Sandwich]

123. You are wrong :)

I vote in Democrat primaries.

You talk about the platform, but most Democrats aren't serving as delegates or going to conventions anyway, certainly I have not since .... a long time ago. I'm not really missing out on anything significant. Just instead of D next to my name at the board of elections, it says I. That's the only difference.

[BainsBane]

129. Evidently you don't live in a caucus state

where one can propose any plank for a platform at the precinct level. And no, it's not most people who attend and propose planks, just those who care about issues and the direction of the party. Primary states have their own ways of putting forward planks for the party platform, but you're correct that it isn't something most people do. It's something done by people who are dedicated to the direction of the party or particular issues.

You're not missing out on anything that Democrats consider significant, as in the direction of the party. I have noticed, you do manage to complain a lot about something you now say isn't significant. Perhaps it is the act of complaining that you find more meaningful than actually trying to do something about the direction of the party?

[Cheese Sandwich]

131. I honestly don't have any clue what you're talking about.

I don't understand the way the words are ordered inside the sentences.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

137. A platform is made up of planks....

Traditionally, there are a few screws loose.

[nadinbrzezinski]

214. Hmmm this is kind of funny on multiple levels

while primaries might not be open in YOUR STATE, that does not mean this is the case everywhere.

In my state ALL party primaries are open to decline to state voters, and you know the best part, under state rules you NEED those pesky decline to state voters to move to the general. If you come in 3rd place, you do not move on in all state and local level races.

Yup, it made us decline to state voters that much more important.

Hi from the left coast, and the nut and granola munching Birkenstock wearing, latte drinking, California. For the record, since this was mostly done by the Republicans we are all waiting for them to go wining back to the court, since it has royally backfired on them. This is the kind of fun we have actually being neutral observers of local politics.

Though it has led to a few general elections during the 2014 general election all you had was either Republicans or Democrats vying for a seat in places like local city councils or the legislature. Hell I did vote for a republican in 2014 during the general election. My choice was... drum roll, crazy tea party crazy or moderate Republican. The democrat came in a distant 3 during the primary, ergo did not move forwards.

Thankfully the moderate guy won by the way.

You might want to avoid those all or n'thing posts. It really makes people look quite foolish.

[sabrina 1]

124. You join 10% of former registered Dems since 2008. But if you want to vote for Bernie and your

state holds a closed Primary, you will have to be a registered Dem.

[RiverLover]

140. List of States with Open and Closed Primaries

https://grassrootsidgop.wordpress.com/list-of-states-with-open-and-closed-primaries/

Ohio has a strange one. I had voted straight Dem when I first moved here in 2014, so I think I can vote in the primary. You don't register in one party or the other here, as far as I know.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

158. You do, but you can change 'on the day'.

(Here in Ohio)

Just tell them which ballot you want loaded on your card for the primary. Dem. Repub, or 'issues'.

[RiverLover]

172. Thanks Erich! nt

[CBGLuthier]

127. To all those who say it is against the rules, I have never been a registered Democrat

I have been here for 14 years. I have been registered independent since 1979. I tend to vote for the Democratic candidate and sure as fuck will never vote for a republican and no I did not vote for that asshat Nader. DU has always been open to those of us who tend to side with Democrats so you all know exactly what you can do with your sad little veiled threats.

[emulatorloo]

202. Absolutely correct, thanks for posting the facts. N/T

[LiberalElite]

143. You could have stayed -

there's plenty of Third Wayers to keep you company.

[LondonReign2]

188. Indeed, It was seem the Republicans that make believe they are Democrats

are a hell of a bigger TOS violation than an independent that never votes for Republicans.

[MohRokTah]

144. EXCELLENT!

You do realize that now you cannot vote for Bernie Sanders!

That's what I call cutting off your nose to spite your face!

[Le Taz Hot]

153. No, once again, that is not true.

Man, do you guys ever actually study up on this stuff?

EACH STATE'S PRIMARY VOTE QUALIFICATIONS IS DIFFERENT.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12804841

[jeff47]

205. Of course he never studies up on the things he argues about.

Studying up on it gets in the way of the conclusions he likes.

[tblue37]

146. If you want to support liberals like Bernie, you need to be registered as a Dem

in most states to vote in the Dem primary.

In 1980 I changed my registration to Republican in order to vote for John ANderson and against Ronald Reagan in the republican primary. I thought the Democrats were likely to lose that election, so I wanted to cast a vote in the primary against the R candidate that I was moist afraid of getting into the WH.

Right below this post RiverLover provides a link to a site with a list open and closed primary states.cCheck to see whether your state is an open primary, and if it isn't, please consider reregistering as a Dem, so you can vote for Bernie in the primary.

[RiverLover]

148. List of States with Open and Closed Primaries

https://grassrootsidgop.wordpress.com/list-of-states-with-open-and-closed-primaries/

[mmonk]

151. The problem currently is the addiction to money.

Makes even past strides of the party doing things for the people a very hard task from the inside today.

[leftofcool]

154. Good, now you can vote for the other side.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

155. Bad timing.

I actually switched back to vote for Bernie. If I stayed outside the Dems for the primary, I wouldn't get to vote for him.

[jeff47]

206. Depends on the state.

Lots of states do not have closed primaries.

[nadinbrzezinski]

212. In CA all primaries are open

I cannot wait for the Rs to go back to court (since it has royally backfired on them), but that is a whole different story.

So yes I can, as a decline to state voter, vote for whoever I want to during primary season.

[onehandle]

157. Meaningless vanity post or Nader 2000 inspired disruption?

I saw a lot of posts worded just like that in Democratic safe places online in 2000.

Or is this just 'look at me.'

One or the other or possibly both.

[HockeyMom]

159. Been there, Done that, for 30 years

Yes, if you live in a Closed Primary State, other people will choose the Party's candidate for the general election. You will just sit home twiddling your thumbs. Like Bernie? Like Hillary? Tough, Independent.

It gets very frustrating after years of it.

[bigwillq]

160. Good for you.

Be what you want to be. I really don't understand why so many here are concerned with what or who you are.

Enjoy!

[1000words]

200. Thank you

[Rex]

176. Wow you sure did ruffle the feathers of Big Brother Bird!

"You canna hav a cheezburgerz nows you bad bad person!"

[Xyzse]

180. I am currently an Independent also.

However, I still can't see voting for an Independent for President, and a Republican winning gives them legitimacy, which I am not willing to give as they are just not fit for any sort of governance.

[Autumn]

182. I switched from democrat to Unaffiliated after the omnibus bill

when Bernie announced his run as a Democrat I switched back in order to caucus and support him. When he wins or should he drop out of the primary I will switch back to Unaffiliated.

[cascadiance]

281. The Democrats here should be HAPPY that Bernie is running...

... and that he probably is MORE responsible for the growing number of registered Democrats in closed primary states (and holding back those that are Democrats in those states from leaving the party too) than anything that DWS and the DNC are doing now which is basically turning OFF most Americans that are turned off with the Korporatist direction that she is trying to lead the party towards along with too many other parts of this cancerous infection in the party that is turning away from the traditional values of Democrats of the past.

[sufrommich]

186. So go post at Independent Underground. nt

[DCBob]

201. I was Independent for awhile...

then Bush-the-Idiot brought me to my senses.

[emulatorloo]

203. Yeah, Reagan kinda killed my "Dems and Republicans are the SAME" phase.

I settled into being a left liberal Dem. None the less, indies, greens, socialists etc are very welcome here, which is one of the things makes DU terrific.

[DCBob]

221. Sure they are all welcome if we want to defeat the Republicans we need to join forces.

[Fearless]

209. There is a difference between democrat and Democrat.

I tend to fall in with the former and by tend, I mean completely.

[Frances]

227. Are you going to join independents underground?

[frazzled]

228. Congratulations on becoming

part of the problem, not the solution.

[LWolf]

232. Those who are part of the problem

are those who, out of misguided partisan loyalty, keep putting the neo-liberals in office.

Any member of any political party has a responsibility to hold that party accountable for their record on issues. Any citizen, of any or no party, has that same responsibility for all elected officials.

Parties evolve and change. Both major parties have changed profoundly during my lifetime. Some of us stay to fight for what's left of the party worth fighting for.

[frazzled]

233. No, those who are part of the problem

are those who fail to work within the party structure to make improvements in it and who instead, out of misguided ideological purity, walk away and keep putting Republicans in office. It's easier to sit on the sidelines and vetch than to roll up your sleeves and work to change.

Face it, there hasn't been an independent party president since the mid-19th century--in nearly 100 years. Currently, out of 535 members of Congress, only 2 are of an independent party. So independent parties, like it or not, have no power currently and can affect no change. And that doesn't look very likely to change anytime soon. But knock yourself out.

[LWolf]

237. Holding Democrats accountable

IS working within the party structure. And, frankly, those who are driven away aren't putting Republicans in office. The people who vote for Republicans put them in office. Democrats who are concerned about that would do better to earn the votes of those who've been disenfranchised than blame them for Republican wins.

This is something that too many don't want to hear or acknowledge.

[nadinbrzezinski]

242. So just because a person is a declared decline to state voter

that is the correct phraseology in my state, they automatically vote for Republicans? How does that work exactly because the data from silly places like the Registrar of Voters does not support that fantasy. If it did, at this time we would have the Rs doing much better than they are in this state, given that MORE democrats have actually left the party than Republicans

And if this fantasy was true, exactly why would we all independents not just register Republican? I think it would be easier in this fantasy of yours to just do that. After all, it takes the same effort to do such.

And while we are at the pretzel logic here, does this logic mean that those who LEFT the Republican party will automatically vote for Democrats and perhaps should just register as such?

Yes, that is the pretzel logic at play here.

I must say, I did enjoy it... it is entertaining as hell. The sad part is that in reality both parties need us to get beyond the primaries. It is kind of entertaining actually... we like where we sit in our state. Both parties are still trying to figure how to get the majority of us to vote for them.

[HassleCat]

229. Not me

I'm a yellow dog Democrat. Even though I'm a democratic socialist, and don't get too enthusiastic about the policy positions of today's Democrats, I vote for the Democratic candidate every time. I will vote Sanders, of course, in the primary, and that's technically not a Democratic vote. In general, I'm not too proud to hold my nose and vote for a Democrat who opposes same-sex marriage, wants to terminate the Voting Rights Act, supports TPP, etc. If the Republicans ran someone who could even remotely qualify as a "moderate," I could see myself possibly, maybe, voting against a Neanderthal Democrat. But we know that's not gonna happen. The Republicans do not run moderate candidates anymore, unless they're incumbents. But the Democrats still run liberals, quite a few of them, in fact. Registering as an independent doesn't gain you much in most states. Even though the Democratic Party has moved to the right, it is showing signs of moving back to the left, so now is not a good time to bail.

[frazzled]

234. Can't take the success, eh?

I notice these types of threads tend to come up mostly during times when the Democratic Party or its leaders are having successes. Because for some people politics isn't fun unless it's oppositional, they feel their voices are not being heard when actual progress is being applauded.

It doesn't surprise me that on a week where Barack Obama has been called "one of the most consequential presidents in American history," the pouty kids feel they need to make announcements about walking away.

So long. Farewell. Auf Wiedersehen. Good-bye.

[WillyT]

247. Who Wee... People Be MAD !!!

No purity/loyalty tests here... no... siree...



I tried to change to Indepedent... My 86 yr old mom gave me the stink-eye...

[Blue_Tires]

264. Congrats on getting this many fish to bite...

[Rosa Luxemburg]

276. What is the current version of the democratic Party?

[1000words]

279. It's a version where ...

The executive head of the Party--who campaigned on transparency--not just ignores the will of his constituency, but actively solicits support from the opposition, in order to pass legislation that has been secretly negotiated with the very folks who stand to profit from it.

[HooptieWagon]

277. Ok, your call.

However, depending on your state of residency, you're giving up the ability to vote for liberal Democrats in the primary.

[sjk.fly4ever]

278. I will be always a Democrat

I will be always a Democrat.