How bigotry almost cost America the atomic bomb

[SoutherDem]

I am not making a judgement on the ethics of the atomic bomb nor its being dropped on Japan.

Last night I saw a documentary on Robert Oppenheimer. While I have seen it before two things stuck out which I hadn’t thought of before.

First, although it was a team of scientist who developed the atomic bomb, it was Oppenheimer who made it happen when it did. His intelligence and personality was the driving force which made it possible by August 1945. The scientist may have been able to do it without him but certainly not by that date, some say if ever. He sounds very much like Steve Jobs.

Second, the FBI didn’t want to give Oppenheimer the clearance to work on such a project because of his ties to communism. General Groves insisted on having Oppenheimer in charge of the project. Of course we know once Oppenheimer finished the bigots took over lead by Senator McCarthy he lost his security clearance.

If the FBI would have won the battle and prevented Oppenheimer from being on the project and those who say it couldn’t have happen without him, or at least when it did, are correct, America simply would not have had the atomic bomb to end World War 2.

Bigots have always been around it is just that the subject of hate changes.

I am not making a judgement on the ethics of the atomic bomb nor its being dropped on Japan.

[RKP5637]

1. Yep, so very true. "Bigots have always been around it is just that the subject

of hate changes." Often I wonder if the haters and bigots had everything they want today, what their next target would be. Surely there would be another target and quickly for them to be bigoted and hateful about.

[Xipe Totec]

2. General Leslie Groves is way underestimated in the development of the atomic bomb

His talent was to be unafraid to surround himself with people smarter than he was.

And get them to work as a team.

If the FBI, and McCarthy lost the battle, they lost it to Leslie Groves.

[dimbear]

3. I'm against bigotry too, but note from history that we developed two completely

separate atomic bombs, one uranium and one plutonium, and they both went off just fine.

It's not as hard as you might think.

No country which has tried to develop atomic bombs has failed so far. Some have quit, none failed.

[Forward2012]

4. South Africa is one

that quit. If anyone is wondering.

[Xipe Totec]

5. Three. Remember the H nt

[Journeyman]

7. Four. Remember the N . . .

Now all we need do is develop the "O" and "P" bombs, capable of killing only Officers and Politicians and leaving the rest of us in peace . . . then we'll be set.

[SoutherDem]

11. That was the Mk14

It evolved from the Mk3, Oppenheimer's bomb.

[SoutherDem]

8. You are right.

There were two designs. The Mk1 and Mk2 were gun type, Mk3 implosion type. The gun type was considered impractical and had too many danger of pre-detonation.
So yes there would be a bomb. I will stand corrected on that matter. Being that the bomb which all other bomb evolved from were the Mk3, Oppenheimer's design, I still feel American history would have been changed if Oppenheimer were not allow to work on the project.

[leveymg]

16. That is not entirely true. NoKo's tests have fizzled.

The first test in '06 was a fizzle, a total flop. The second ('09) achieved a yield of only 1/10 the Hiroshima bomb.

The Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty Organization Preparatory Commission assessed the yield at only slightly larger than the 2006 test, which was one kiloton.[24] Based on readings from 23 seismic stations, the Preparatory Commission estimated the blast to have a seismic magnitude of 4.52, corresponding to an explosive yield of 2.4 kilotons, compared to a seismic magnitude of 4.1, corresponding to a yield of 0.8 kilotons, for the 2006 blast.[25] [26]

[KT2000]

6. Bigotry is really shooting oneself in the foot

for arbitrary reasons so many are excluded from mainstream society. That includes so many brilliant, creative and original people who have been prevented from making contributions. Who knows what problems could have been solved but were not.

[leveymg]

9. To show how far to the Right we moved, bigotry used to be on account of "race, religion, or creed"

During McCarthyism, creed (political belief system or ideology) got dropped from the definition. In the fight against Commies and Pinkos, it became okay to be a bigot. It even became acceptable to be an ex-Nazi or an active supporter of neo-fascism, our new friends in the Cold War.

[xtraxritical]

10. So you think having the atomic bomb was a good thing?

The Soviets stole blueprints for the bomb from from Los Alamos too. Just about all the nukes from the cold war era are still extant too.

[SoutherDem]

12. I thought I made it clear

I am not making a judgement on the ethics of the atomic bomb nor its being dropped on Japan.

I was stating how bigotry could have affected American history.

Many examples of bigotry seem to not have an affect beyond the one it is against, "who cares if Joe Blow and John Doe can't get married. I was simply placing one in discussion which most likely would have changed history. I make nor will I make an assertion as to if the ultimate end results were good or bad.

[longship]

13. Oppie opposed the development of the "Super"

The H-bomb, as did many others on the Manhattan Project. Fucking Edward Teller, whose designs never worked, but nevertheless history tags as the father of the H-bomb, skewered Oppie in the hearings which resulted in his security clearance being withdrawn.

Recommended reads, both by Richard Rhodes:

The Making of the Atomic Bomb a Pulitzer Prize winner.

Dark Sun about the Super development and the Rosenberg spy case.

Both are great reads.

[SoutherDem]

14. Also, he seemed to have regrets afterwards

for building such an instrument of death. At least from what the documentary said.

[SoutherDem]

15. Thanks for the tip on the two books

The Making of the Atomic Bomb is at my local B&N I am picking it up tomorrow and will order Dark Sun online.