Tell me again how guns, especially automatic weapons, are no more dangerous than axes...or

[kelliekat44]

how it is that guns don't kill people? 39 killed by one man with a gun.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/27/tunisia-hotel-attack-survivors_n_7677574.html

[Travis_0004]

1. Automatic guns are banned in the US, so what is your point?

There are a few legal automatics in civilian hands, but they are very expensive.

I think you would have to go back quite a while to find a case where a legal automatic gun was used in a shooting. I'm aware of one accidental shooting in 2014, but I cant even name a second case where a legal automatic weapon was used.

[CajunBlazer]

9. Do you realize...

how quickly a semi-automatic assault weapon can be retrofitted with fairly inexpensive parts to make them automatic weapons.

Do you realize that if someone wants to kill a large number of defensiveness people the shooter would be more effective by putting even an automatic weapon in semi-automatic mode because automatic mode will kill fewer people with a given magazine.

I'm sure you do realize that you an buy semi-automatic assault weapons at any Walmart with clips which hold a hundred rounds which are quite capable of killing 47 people in a very short period of time.

[sarisataka]

11. Only in movies

how quickly a semi-automatic assault weapon can be retrofitted with fairly inexpensive parts to make them automatic weapons.

and other works of fiction. Most require several parts- all of which are regulated as automatic weapons- and possibly remilling the receiver.

[Travis_0004]

16. Don't rain on his parade

Anybody can take an AR-15, and mill out the area for the drop in auto sear.

Then you have to mill a drop in auto sear. The hammer is not compatible. You have to remake that too.

Dont' forget the bolt carrier group, not the easiest thing to mill. And the selecter switch needs to be changed too.

Of course somebody who can do all that can just buy a block of aluminum and create their own AR-15.

Don't show them this page. Somebody made an AK out of a shovel. We should ban shovels as well. For the children.

http://thechive.com/2012/12/06/apparently-you-can-make-an-ak-47-out-of-just-about-anything-25-photos/

[sarisataka]

19. Most AKs I have encountered

could have been used as shovels. They are full auto because they are as inaccurate as hell and used by minimally trained troops. Put enough bullets in the air and eventually you will hit something.

You are correct, the skill needed to convert an AR could just as easily make one from scratch.

[uponit7771]

12. Fully automatic guns not needed to fire automatically, bump firing can do just that

[Travis_0004]

17. So its less accurate, and he has to reload almost immedialty.

I'm ok with that. Being in a room with one guy bump firing is much less scary that somebody with two revolves on them actually aiming.

The guy bump firing might really hit one guy. The guy aiming can hit 12.

[Adrahil]

2. There are over 480,000 deaths annually directly related to tobacco use.

Just sayin....

[dsc]

5. and look at all the restrictions we have on tobacco

many states all but forbid public smoking, Hawaii has a 21 year old smoking age, and smoking deaths have gone down over the years since the advent of those regulations.

[Adrahil]

6. right, and I favor restrictions.

I favor an 18 years of age restriction.

I support background checks for all transfers, and I support the right of municipalities and business to ban concealed carry.

[aikoaiko]

3. Who told you that the first time?

[former9thward]

4. Are you blaming the 2nd amendment for killings in Tunisia?

[CajunBlazer]

7. When I was an Air Force Officer....

One of my responsibilities as Aircraft Maintenance Officer in the Strategic Air Command (SAC) was be ready to deploy to a forward operating base in case of a nuclear war to turn around B-52 bombers when they returned from their bombing missions over the USSR. To be ready to perform that duty, my men and I had to stay proficient on our personal weapons. Officers were assigned a pistol called the Colt Combat Masterpiece, but I manage to also get certified on the AR15 (the semiautomatic version of the M16).

I originally thought that an AR15 would make a good deer rifle, short, light and relative accurate over long distances. I changed my mind when I saw a demonstration of the weapon's firepower one day. The target on this occasion was a 55 gallon steel drum filled with water which was use to demonstrate the stopping power the AR15. When the drum was hit from fifty yards, the bullet made a small hole at the entry point, but on exit it made a hole in the back of the steel drum much bigger than the size of my fist. The original ammunition of the AR15 had a 5.56mm (0.223 caliber -slightly larger than a 22) bullet propelled by a massive amount of gun powder. It made a small hole on entry, but the projectile was unstable so it tumbled when it entered flesh and was designed to make a massive exit wound.

Thus I determined that the AR15 was totally useless as a hunting rifle because it would destroy much of the meat of a targeted animal. It was designed for one thing, killing people. With magazines capable of storing 60 and even 100 rounds, the AR15 is capable of of people as quickly the shooter can pull the trigger, making sure what when a person is hit just about anywhere on his body, he will go down and he will not get back up. Can you imagine the damage this weapon did to the little children killed in the Sandy Hook massacre?

I shudder every time I am reminded that military assault weapons such as the AR15 can be bought by just about anyone in our country and can thus easily fall in the hands of a homicidal maniacs or home grown terrorists whose objective are to kill the maximum number of people before they are themselves shot.

Whenever there efforts to ban assault weapons, there is always talk about 2nd Amendments rights. However, there are few defenders of the 2nd Amendment who would defend the right of ordinary Americans to own fully functional M1A tanks, or bazookas, or anti-aircraft rockets. And no sane person would defend the right a civilian to possess a tactical nuclear weapon.

So nearly everyone concedes that even 2nd Amendments rights have their limits. The only thing that is at issue here is where do you draw the line between what weapons are allowed and which not allowed.

In my humble opinion that line should be drawn to ban assault weapons from our streets. They are not practical for hunting and no more protection than a standard hand gun, rifle or shotgun. Some would argue that assault weapons allow relatively unskilled shooters to defend homes and/or lives more effectively because of their multiple shot capability. Well, first of all I don't want an unskilled people handling any kind of firearms and if someone wants a ideal defensive weapon they need to buy a shotgun. It is difficult to miss with shotgun at relatively close range.

So assault weapons have only one practical purpose, killing multiple people in a very short period of time. Why in the world would we want just about anyone in the general public to have access to such powerful weapons.

[Travis_0004]

10. The spread of a shotgun is very limited at distances found inside the house.

That is at 12 feet, no choke. At a closer difference and any kind of choke, the spread could be far less. (I keep a full choke on my shotgun. Its not for home defense, I store it in a safe, broken in two pieces)

Smaller people have trouble with the recoil of a shotgun.

Also, you claim that AR-15's should be banned, because they are dangerous when used by a criminal, yet they have no practical use for home defense?

Which one is it? Are they good or not. I don't want somebody to shoot of 30 rounds defending their house, but the AR 15 is lightweight, low recoil, and makes for easy follow up shots, so they have a lot of use for home defense.

[CajunBlazer]

13. Give me a shot gun anytime.

First of all the dispersion of shot coming out of a shotgun is dependent on the size and hence the number of pellets. The larger the number of pellets, the larger the dispersion pattern. Just about any size shot fired from even 14 or 16 gauge shotgun would be lethal at 12 feet. Secondly, any one who can't hit a man sized target at 12 feet with a shotgun with any reasonable dispersion pattern has no business owning any firearm.

[Lulu Belle]

18. 20ga is even better

75% of the shot load for 50% of the recoil of a 12ga.
This translates to faster follow up shots with practically equal lethality. The target will never know the difference at defensive ranges.
You may be fast with a 12ga, but you will always be faster with a 20ga.
Plus, the 20ga is available in youth models, which make them easier for smaller framed women to handle.

[Travis_0004]

20. Do you even know what you are talking about?

Spread is determined by choke, not by shot size. As I showed in my picture, the spread at 12 feet is 3 inches or less(best case scenario, no choke), so is not a whole lot more forgiving than a rifle.

Who uses 14 gauge shotguns? I've heard of them, but they are not common. (I thought they were used more for less than lethal rounds in police departments, since nobody would have 14 gauge ammo to accidentally load lethal rounds in them.)

Also, any shot from a shotgun is not always lethal. Just ask Harry Whittington.

[sarisataka]

15. Not ever being one to question an officer...

but:


A 55 gallon drum is 22.5 in. across with steel sides. A milk jug is ~6 in. with plastic sides. The .223 barely penetrates 2 milk jugs. No way will it pass through the drum and leave a fist sized exit hole.

Also the .223 is used by many hunters across the US. In some areas it cannot be used to hunt deer because it is considered too weak to insure a clean kill of the animal.

[uppityperson]

8. A person with a gun can kill from a distance and quickly. That attack is awful

[the band leader]

14. too easy.

323 people were killed with rifles of any kind in America in 2011 while, in the same year, 1,694 people were killed with cutting instruments of some kind. 496 people were murdered with blunt instruments of some kind and 726 people were beaten to death.

[ManiacJoe]

21. Of course, guns are dangerous.

That is what makes them useful as tools.