Can history be revised to oblivion?

[SoutherDem]

It seem history often gets revised for various reason, usually because of the current political or social direction of the moment.

What is bad become good and good becomes bad.

We often see FOX news take whatever the real news is and embellish it to sound good for the Republicans and bad for the Democrats. In all fairness it can happen on the other side also.

I have seen this happen for events throughout all history. There are event which I was taught in school which I felt was fact, which now I have heard many other revision to the point I don't know what or who to believe. I am not talking about dates and places, but reasons, effects and the morality of events.


After numerous revision it is often difficult to know what really happen.

Can the facts ever be lost forever?



Does the internet make it more likely?

What about things which happened before the internet?

[elleng]

1. I recall hearing that lynne cheney had written a 'history' book,

doing some of the stuff you suggest, that is, 're-doing' U.S. history.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0525-08.htm

[SoutherDem]

2. That is an excellent example

Any person who reads that book will get a warped sense of history, the republicanized version. Now, I really don't want a democratized version either, I want the real history.

[ellisonz]

3. Depends what you mean by history...

Do you mean popularly conceived history, history itself, or the academic narrative of history. In the case of the former it can be done, but in the case of the latter two it is an impossible task.

There are a lot of ignorant and gullible people out there that much of the supposed knowledge on the internet preys upon.

[Javaman]

4. History doesn't matter anymore...

I told my GF just the other day that when I die, my obit is going to read that I served during the Crimean War as a fusilier.

[malthaussen]

5. Really? On which side?

As to the OP, popular history is much like the news media. Subject to fashion, hype, and manipulation. Academic history is subject to these forces also, but there is usually an accessable corrective or counter to the worst propaganda.

After the basic spadework of determining the facts is done, the fun part starts: interpreting the facts. It is very possible for one interpretation or another to gain ascendancy and overrule others, to the point where one has to do some digging to find different viewpoints. Was the Reagan era a time of economic prosperity or disaster? Depends on who you listen to.

Because of these things, history can sink below the radar of most people. Most of us have heard about the Kent State shootings; fewer have heard of (or remember) the Jackson State shootings. But the information is still there for the interested party.

-- Mal

[Javaman]

6. I agree with what you are saying...

I'm just cranky this morning. LOL

And I get really tired of the propaganda from the right wing and their attempts to rewrite recent history.

I know better and most thinking people know better, but it's the average slob who feeds on sound bites to "educate themselves" who don't. And while historians will keep the record straight, sadly, they are also rarely sighted as sources for information.

Many people have tried to label the age we are currently living in, but in my opinion, they have wildly missed the mark; I have my own. I call it the age when stupidity became profitable. And until it has passed (which can't be soon enough for me), we will all be subject (except to those who pay attention) to an ever evolving state of what is perceived as history and how it's presented by the various news outlets.

So, as for which side? I thought for a while that I would be Ottoman. After all the Light Brigade didn't work out very well for the Brits. But then again, the Brits did have some nice looking uniforms.

[malthaussen]

7. Yeah, the Light Brigade wasn't too successful...

... but the Thin Red Streak and the Charge of the Heavy Brigade worked out just fine. Two outa three ain't bad.

"The age when stupidity became profitable." Not bad, but too long. It's hard to find a single word to characterize the current Age: "Propaganda" can be used to indicate the manipulation of the masses by manipulation of information, but to call the current Age the "Age of Propaganda" would ignore the fact that propaganda has always been with us. And while this is an era in which excess has become, well, excessive, other eras have had their moments of bacchanal. I often think of modern times as the "Age of Professionalism," but I have to speedily add that I do not think professionalism is necessarily a good thing. Perhaps, in the end, Robert Heinlein had the best tag: "The Crazy Years."

-- Mal

[Javaman]

8. Yeah, I thought it a bit clunky too.

"The Crazy Years" has a nice ring to it, but it really doesn't fully grasp the undercurrent of our problems. "Crazy Years" can be applied to many different era's.

People can be crazy, but not stupid. And Being crazy doesn't denote the money behind our current problems.

fox news has certainly made a lot of money by pushing stupidity and certainly the republican double speak of ever changing message is to try and purposely keep their followers off balance.

Maybe the era of Stupidity for Profit or maybe Profit from Stupity.

Yeah, the heavy brigade did work out well, but it was the charge of light brigade that has forever put the mark of waste of lives due to ego as what people will remember...that and Tennyson. Which, due to how people remember it and not historians, is a perfect example of who makes the headlines.

[malthaussen]

9. Or maybe "Vested Stupidity," or "Vested Ignorance..."

... although I suppose that would evoke images of politicians in three-piece suits.

I think "ignorance" is a better characterization than "stupidity," although sometimes it's damned hard to tell the difference. But with the education system being what it is, despite whatever wishes the teachers might have on the subject, it is clear that the Powers that Be have a vested interest in perpetrating ignorance, and are working to realize that Dream. Not that they aren't being fully supported by the Powers that are Not. I know people who are proud of the fact that they have never read a book. What I have difficulty understanding is not that they don't read -- not everyone enjoys the same things -- but why it is a source of pride to them. I have never eaten creamed cauliflower; I do not wear a T-shirt advertising the fact.

-- Mal

[Javaman]

13. I think you are on to something. That's closer.

The Age of Profitable Ignorance?

Has a ring to it, no?

[malthaussen]

14. The Age of Profiting From Ignorance

... although, once again, we're getting too wordy.

And ignorance/stupidity has always been profitable: are you aware of the provenance of "Buying a pig in a poke" and "Letting the cat out of the bag?"

-- Mal

[Javaman]

16. It's going to be a tough phrase to come up with that

is short yet poignant.

True, there has always been profit in the gullibility, ignorance and stupidity of people that goes without a doubt, but my issue is how it has become a mainstream staple of the right wing. In the past it has always been tool for them to employ, but it was always employed behind the scenes and not in such an obvious manner. The fear was in the potential of insulting ones constituents. It's one thing to be had, but it's another to know you have been had in a knowingly way. I think what I'm trying to say is: the craft of duping people is now gone. It's like they don't even try to be subtle anymore. They insult people and their followers seem to be perfectly okay with this.

It's as if the right wing doesn't even care to hide their manipulation anymore and the audience doesn't mind.

Perhaps, it's not an age of stupidity, but an age of willful ignorance. And rather than profit driving the mission to dumb people down, it's just a result of a further lowering of standards.

The question now becomes, why do people, especially the right wing, choose not to question things, that some, know to be inherently wrong? Perhaps that will lead to a better term.

[malthaussen]

17. Hee-hee: The Age of Honesty

I've observed what you describe myself, and marvelled at how the RW PTB especially aren't even bothering to disguise it anymore. There you have it: The Age of Honesty.

I regret I have to log off now, but thanks for an entertaining discussion.

-- Mal

[Javaman]

20. Cheers! :) nt

[ananda]

10. It can ..

.. If Texas textbooks are anything to go by.

So can science, btw.

[coalition_unwilling]

11. "it is often difficult to know what really happen" -- no professional

historian should ever claim to know 'what really happened' (or rather, why). History in its various forms comprises a hypothesis, evidence and conclusion (a version of the scientific method, if you will) and as such, revision and lively debate are for the most part to be welcomed, save when said revisionism encompasses crackpots like Holocaust deniars and their like.

[EFerrari]

12. That's a good question.

[HiPointDem]

15. yes.

[Taverner]

18. Historic Revisionism from our friends in the Reich Wing

1 - The Founding Fathers were all evangelical Christians

2 - Slavery was banned throughout US history

3 - Settlers valiantly killed off the Indians

4 - Hitler was an Atheist

5 - Winston Churchill was a Christian

6 - Dorothy Day never existed

7 - Anarchism, Socialism, Communism and Syndicalism were never popular in the US

8 - No Americans ever supported the Nazi Party

9 - William Jennings Bryan is notable only for the Scopes Trial. He never did anything else.

10 - Hellen Keller is notable only for learning to write. She never did anything else.

[SoutherDem]

19. Well I will admit

Numbers 1,3,4,5,7,and 8 were taught to me in public school. I had to learn the truth as an adult.
Numbers 6 and 9 I did not learn in school at all. Didn't know who they were until the last few years
Numbers 2 and 10 were taught correctly in school. Living in Alabama I don't think they could have not taught those correctly.