A Letter to My Sublime Allies on the US Left

[WilliamPitt]

"Dismal"? Rancid"?

Shut the fuck up.

We may not all get along every minute of the day - hell, we go at it talon and tooth, because we mean it, and because it's important - but that bloodletting actually happens to be the point of the exercise, a point lost on those who demand and expect and require lock-step adherence to a particular brand.

Here's what: No more wars based on lies, no more torture, no more bloated "defense" spending, protect the environment, spare us your fossil fuels and pipelines already, fund education, fund Social Security, fund Medicare and Medicaid, regulate the finance industry so far up their asses that the bump on their throat is the nose of the regulator, put the Wall Street/Banker thieves in prison, pave the roads, fix the bridges, and everyone deserves a damn job. Oh, P.S. Stop shooting unarmed Black men for no reason, put the tanks away, actually protect and serve, and while you're at it, dismantle the prison "industry."

Dismal? Rancid?

Shut the fuck up.

[mikehiggins]

1. double ditto n/t

[djean111]

2. Well said, and concisely put. Thank you.

[ananda]

3. Just a little pipsqueak to say: right on!

..

[rhett o rick]

109. "Right on"?? No one says "right on" anymore. Well, occasionally do. That's dating the both of us.

In the day, I bastardized it and said "Right Arm".

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

139. Ride on, ride on.

[Roland99]

287. love this use of it >>>>

[JonLP24]

4. Lets bring back the rule of law

We shouldn't be locking people up forever or give them a chance to challenge their detention. Otherwise let 'em go and also respect our privacy.

[rhett o rick]

327. We have the rule of law now. There are two versions, one for the Wealthy and one for the 99%.

Support the candidate for the 99% and not the wealthy.

[JonLP24]

367. That too

but I mean more of the internment camps in Cuba & elsewhere, rendition, torture, etc. We have taken so many people outside the rule of law that we need to start bringing them back in. I support Bernie Sanders, hopefully cleans house.

[antigop]

5. William, you really have a way with words. K&R nt

[Romulox]

6. DU's pendulum has swung way, way, WAY too far to the right.

This has always been the place for "progressives" to rail against unions (and working people in general), but it is now trendy to rail against "the Left" here.

[Rex]

27. I disagree, I think it has always been a very vocal group that is small. Maybe like 10%

of the posters here. They make a lot of noise for the Center.

[FlatBaroque]

35. It perfectly reflects our culture

a small minority trying to dictate to the 90%

[Rex]

38. It does totally.

Most of them are affluent and with little worry about social or economic justice. Get to know them and you find that out. At least here, the blogger that wrote the hippe bashing letter I have no idea about.

Just sounds like a whinner whinning about people they think whine...navel gazing at it's finest.

[passiveporcupine]

148. you are saying progressives are mostly affluent?

I'm not sure where you get that, as I'm a progressive and I'm far from affluent. But if you have some evidence to back that up, I'd sure be interested in seeing it. For example...Bernie has about the least amount of wealth of anyone in the Senate, but he's more socially and economically progressive that almost all the dems put together.

Sorry...I reread your post and did misread it. Skip this!

[merrily]

217. The expression "limousine liberals" came into existence for a reason.

I have no clue what "progressive" actually means, so I try my best not to use it.

A centrist friend speaks of "tax bracket Republicans," meaning people who would seem like Democrats if you know them, but vote Republican under the mistaken belief that Republicans are fiscally conservative and won't raise taxes. I smile.

[Romulox]

63. OK, but in my years here, I've never seen one of these long term posters banned for being too Right.

I have seen a half dozen or more of the more outspoken Lefties banned in that time, however.

[d_legendary1]

74. NY_SKP comes to mind.

Very smart individual until he got banned for toying with a troll.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026777709

Something about the C-word and Hillary Clinton.

[RoccoR5955]

100. Only lefties get banned.

From ANY place. They are not considered "the normal."
People on the right have more money, so they use it to get their way more often too.

[morningfog]

282. Lefties get banned but the Hillaryites get far more hides

and time outs. Several can't retain their posting rights. After a couple days they can't control their rudeness and are back on vacation. But that disruptive behavior isn't bannable.

[cui bono]

364. Seriously. After 3 timeouts there should be serious repercussions.

I mean it's a pretty clear sign the person can't conduct themselves in a civil manner.

[merrily]

218. More than a half dozen. As I roamed the internet looking for

a message board where I would not have to post with Republicans, I came across lists of banned liberals and also posters who had been banned and were then posting on other boards.

[Enthusiast]

272. +1 an entire shit load.

[rhett o rick]

348. Part of the reason is the conservatives are much more authoritarian. They like lock-step

politics. No room to debate. And they spend a lot of energy "ferreting" out the heretics. Those that dare ask questions of their leaders.

The Left on the other hand are too busy discussing the TPP, fracking, drone killing, saving Medicare, domestic spying, saving the internet, saving SS, saving American jobs, closing Gitmo, punishing torturers and war criminals. Things the conservatives don't spend any time on.

[nikto]

102. Yeah, if ...

"Center" actually = decisively RIGHT-Leaning



Some center.

[merrily]

219. Center right is a common description of the DLC/Third Way/New Democrat incarnation.

[Enthusiast]

274. Precisely.

[bvar22]

337. Or...."an 80s Republican"

If anyone has trouble counting, that is Ronald Reagan.

[nikto]

362. Remember this Reagan lie that was discovered by REAL Journalists?

http://thesuspicionist.blogspot.com/2015/02/salute-to-hero-who-uncovered-reagan.html

[nikto]

357. Center-right is kind of like ...

Cyanide.

But don't worry, folks, it's diluted!


I'm with you.

[merrily]

359. Thanks! I'm with you, too!

[rhett o rick]

110. And they are very active with the alert button. nm

[passiveporcupine]

149. That's because they are more rigid and conforming

And the more rigid you are, the less non-conforming behavior you accept.

[Enthusiast]

275. ...

In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act...Orwell

[passiveporcupine]

146. So, are you against progress?

Progressives are left of center...and you say this group is mostly center? Do you realize that the right wing is so far right of center, that center is actually moderate right wing? And you are OK with that? Or am I totally misreading your post here?

Sorry...I'm not even able to update my own posts correctly. I think I misread you, so please ignore this question.

[cui bono]

206. lol...

Sorry... don't mean to laugh. You can always use the self-delete button and get rid of the post completely if you like.

[RoccoR5955]

295. Not on a global point of view

On that point of view most people here are RIGHT of center.
They still love capitalism, they still believe that a socialist is a bad thing and can't win. Those are only two things.
Anyone who is left of center can see that capitalism does not work for WE THE PEOPLE, and socialism is a good thing, and strive for it.

[bvar22]

338. The Failure of unregulated Capitalism could not be more obvious....

...in our cities and small towns.
NOW is the time to be pointing that out
instead of Bailing them Out.

[merrily]

212. Is it really the Center, or wherever the Party establishment is at the moment?

I don't see a consistent set of principles. Whatever is, is not only correct, but the very best thing that could possibly have been obtained under the circumstances. Doesn't' matter if it is right, center, or left. If it happened, it's fantastic. If it didn't happen, either it was impossible or it shouldn't have happened.

[LWolf]

94. DU used to self-identify this way:

Democratic Underground (DU) was founded on Inauguration Day, January 20, 2001, to protest the illegitimate presidency of George W. Bush and to provide a resource for the exchange and dissemination of liberal and progressive ideas. Since then, DU has become one of the premier left-wing websites on the Internet, publishing original content six days a week, and hosting one of the Web's most active left-wing discussion boards.


The above is from an older version of "About DU," which changed about the time that DU 3 came on board and, not coincidentally, Democrats took back the WH.

The newer version drops "left wing."

I grabbed this from an old post of mine in the archives; one pointing out the conflict that has always existed between ideology and the partisan rules. Since partisan rules have always trumped ideology, it's not surprising that the site has swung to the right. And, of course, when a Democrat was elected, the site is no longer really "underground," and the mainstream power structure in the party prevails.

I hope that, in 2016, the pendulum in the nation and the party begins the swing back.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3653647

[Maedhros]

157. That's probably because DU became a serious money-making endeavor

and deals were probably cut with the Democratic Party leadership.

[merrily]

239. When Bush was "elected," Democrats were united against Bush.

At some point after Obama took office, the divide between the "pragmatic liberals" and the left of the Party became more and more obvious. DU today reflects that rather dramatically. I don't know if DU has changed much beyond that. And I don't think most of the general population even knows about the divide.

[LWolf]

300. Yes. nt

[bvar22]

340. That was "back in the day".

100,000 "views" of a post and 1,000 Recs were not uncommon.
The Sub-Forums were busy, busy, busy...full of great information.

This is a comparative Ghost Town.

[cui bono]

207. Interesting. Now I wonder if the admins changed or if they decided the site should change to

attract more people and advertisers. Judging from them starting other sites I would guess the latter. Although, skinner sporting a Hillary avatar shows he is definitely not left-wing. Don't know if he ever was though.

[merrily]

240. Please see Reply 239.

[merrily]

214. It is "left wing" as compared with "right wing." It is "liberal" as compared with RW conservative.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

227. Actually, DU originally identified as Democratic back in the 2002 timeframe

Not as a site for anti-Democratic-Party leftists who do almost nothing other than bash the Democratic Party and Democratic elected officials.

Skinner then made it open to both. I don't know why he did, but since he's clearly a very liberal himself, I think he probably thought reaching out to disaffected leftists was the best thing to do. But he must have got sick of the non-stop drumbeat of hatred, and so has once again decided to be inclusive of the actual constituency of the Democratic party.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[LWolf]

299. That quote was there in 2002. nt

[ConservativeDemocrat]

333. Not according to the wayback machine

https://web.archive.org/web/20020123013548/http://www.democraticunderground.com/about.html

About Democratic Underground, LLC

Democratic Underground (DU) was founded on Inauguration Day, January 20, 2001, to protest the illegitimate presidency of George W. Bush and to provide a resource for the exchange and dissemination of liberal and progressive ideas. Since then, DU has become one of the premier left-wing websites on the Internet, publishing original content six days a week, and hosting one of the Web's most active left-wing discussion boards.

We welcome Democrats of all stripes, along with other progressives who will work with us to achieve our shared goals. While the vast majority of our visitors are Democrats, this web site is not affiliated with the Democratic Party, nor do we claim to speak for the party as a whole.

Democratic Underground would not be possible without the participation of like-minded individuals from across the country and, indeed, from around the world. The content for the site is provided by people who feel that their views are not represented by the conservative "mainstream" media in the U.S. We accept article submissions from those on the left who wish to write, so that DU represents a variety of progressive viewpoints. We have a particular appreciation for satire and humor.
....

So, as you can see, originally the D.U. accepted Democrats of all stripes and progressives that were willing to work with Democrats on common goals. These days, the D.U. has become a ground for counterproductive leftists organizing to attack the Democratic party, and as such has driven off all but a handful of mainstream Democrats.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[LWolf]

334. Can you read?

Look at the first paragraph...word for word.

That's what I posted, since the conversation was about the left.

If you want to talk about the fact that partisanship has always trumped ideology on DU, I can do that, but this thread is about the left on DU, and how the left used to be welcomed, and is now attacked.

As a matter of fact, I think that the link to my archived post that I provided discussed just that conflict between partisanship and ideology. Do you need the link again? If that's where your head is at, here it is.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3653647

Meanwhile, you do realize that this thread is in response to a thread demeaning the left in the Democratic Party?

[ConservativeDemocrat]

339. Can you comprehend?

Seriously, guy, it looks to me like the problem is that you (and the handful of self-congratulating posters here) have a differing understanding of what the left means, compared to the rest of the country.

To the rest of the country, President Obama is on the left; to the DU screamers, he's an evil corporatist indistinguishable from Bush

To the rest of the country, Hillary Clinton is on the left; to the DU screamers, she's a warmonger indistinguishable from Cheney

To the rest of the country, the Democratic party is the left; to the DU screamers, it's basically a more evil version of the Republican party, because it "acts like Republicans" while pretending there's a difference.


The Democratic Underground was originally envisioned as a safe-haven, where Democrats didn't have to read the kind of crap that Republicans constantly spew against Democrats. This was Skinner's vision. What he never dreamed of was it turning into a place where relative a handful of "independents" who hate Democrats, constantly upvote each other's crap to the front page, because to them nothing is ever good enough.

And now, these same people arel apparently all upset that not everyone is completely on board with this kind of behavior? Saying you don't feel "welcome". Well su-prise, su-prise. Spew hatred, mischaracterizations, and even the occasional outright lie long enough, and Democrats start to make comments about it.

Oh, and I didn't see any thread demeaning the left. Maybe you ought to point it out. The closest I saw was a thread asking what "the far left" has done other than throwing the 2000 election to Bush.

It's damned good question. And if you can't cogently answer it, and instead think that being offended is an answer, it says everything anyone needs to know about you, in terms of actual effectiveness in getting the policies you're in favor of enacted into law.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[LWolf]

363. Seriously?

First you post what I already posted, telling me that it actually wasn't there in 2002, because it was there in 2002. As if you posting it made it legitimate, totally discounting what I said. That shows fucking comprehension.

Now you, the ConservativeDemocrat, think you are going to lecture me on the left from your very Conservative, narrow, limited perspective.

Please.

Maybe next, I'll let some local fundy xtian try to explain Buddhism to me.

Edited to add: very few politicians in the U.S. are on the left, and Hillary Clinton isn't one of them.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

366. Well there we go...

...you basically agree. Your definition of "left" is different than the American public's definition. You clearly place the "center" solidly to the left of the Democratic party.

Meanwhile, the reality of the U.S. is like this:


- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[LWolf]

368. lol

No, my definition of the left is different than a conservative's.

It's also broader than the U.S. alone, and it's also based, not on talk, but walk.

It's the definition of someone who actually resides to left of the U.S. center.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

370. At this point you're being too cryptic for me to tease out how you've strung your words together

So I think I'll drop the conversation now.

You clearly seem to have decided to define "the left" as "to the left of me". And if that's your definition, I will be happy to agree with you that basically no one in the United States is going to be what you would consider "the left" (outside of a relative handful of people you might be able to find in a political echo chamber like the DU or revleft.com).

However, most people define "the left" as "left of the nation's center", which is obviously considerably to the right of where you think it is, and by that standard (which is the commonly used one) the Democrats are "the left".

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[nikto]

101. If DU is pulling to the right, it's the Hillary influence

Corporatists abound!

[rhett o rick]

111. DU is 80% progressive but the other 10% is very vocal. nm

[nikto]

117. IMO, DU is at least 10% ...

GOP.

[hifiguy]

121. They never, EVER shut up

and they never, EVER defend traditional Democratic/Liberal principles.

[nikto]

358. Yeah, bit of a red-light flashing there as to their *real* philosophy

[msanthrope]

142. That's only 90 percent. nt

[zappaman]

159. I 110% agree!

[merrily]

230. Yes, but 90% might have been a tad high.

[msanthrope]

278. "A tad high?" I think the inadvertent homage to Yogi Berra wasn't

brought on by substances, but by sheer hubris.

[merrily]

279. I did not mean the poster was high. I meant that the 90% figure may have been too high.

[msanthrope]

280. Stop digging. nt

[merrily]

281. My original post to you was not an error on my part.

But I can see where it might be a head scratcher.

[msanthrope]

284. Put the shovel down....it's a poor tool to cover up basic, albeit

hysterically funny mistakes with mathematics.

[merrily]

290. Please. I would not attempt to "cover up" the mistake of another poster.

I was making an observation of my own about the population of this board.

[msanthrope]

311. True, your Streisand effectof it really did not help. nt

[merrily]

313. ?

[msanthrope]

317. you are unaware of who barbra streisand is? nt

[merrily]

319. Am aware of her, but am not aware of what "to Streisand" means. Guess i missed your meaning, much as

you missed mine.

BTW, also aware of Yogi Berra, but you are really using some old pop culture references. Got anything chronologically somewhere between Berra and Bieber?

[msanthrope]

322. you were unable to Google "Streisand effect?"

with regardto my "old references," I take pride in being well read enough that my knowledge spans generations. FYI...."Striesand effect" is of fairly recent vintage....the lawsuit wasn't that long ago.

[merrily]

323. Very able. Barely cared enough to post ? though.

[msanthrope]

324. And yet you keep replying, demonstrating the effect. nt

[merrily]

325. Funny you should say that, literally funny and "funny" coincidental.

In fact, I wasn't going to reply again, but posts like your Reply 324 always make me smile because that is how irony usually affects me. It would just have been too ungrateful of me not to thank you for a smile, so thanks.

[msanthrope]

326. like Alanis Morissette you've confused the meaning of ironic....

I appreciate that you've taken the time to reply.....you've managed to draw more attention to the original hilarious mistake.

I am sure rhett appreciates your diligence .

[cui bono]

208. Obama pulled it to the right already.

There's a whole group of people on here who think he's just swell and can't think of one thing he could have done better.

[merrily]

231. The DLC did that years ago.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026211673

Comparing the websites of the Congressional Progressive Caucus and the New Democrat Coalition is instructive.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12778196

I still think Obama is to the left of both Clintons, even though he self identified as a New Democrat and as one who would have been considered a moderate Republican in the 1980s (when the DLC was formally organized).

[lumberjack_jeff]

150. I don't think it's right vs left so much as "sensible woodchucks" against principled liberals.

i.e. "Get big money out of politics! ...Eventually! Until then, yay Hillary!"

[merrily]

237. +1 Before reading this, I posted similarly in Reply 212.

[hifiguy]

355. Oh my, that is gonna leave a mark.

[merrily]

209. It's the pendulum of a small fraction of DU posters

and, my guess is, a few socks.

[stevenleser]

7. No, sorry, you don't get to write this after calling one of your allies on the left a POSUCS.

You don't get to claim that it's wrong to complain about others on the left after you have done that.

[redstateblues]

10. I agree

[djean111]

12. Sure, he gets to write it. You don't have to read it, is the thing. n/t

[Rex]

15. Steve gets to read it, reply back and then some.

However, I think someone fooled Pitt into thinking nobody blog whinners are activists that actually get out there and make a difference. I read that long manifesto and it looked like the worlds biggest crybaby letter ever written.

None of the claims are true, very few people on the left are single issue voters and we vote 80 - 90% for the candidate running for office. So anyone that doesn't look into easy facts that can be found on the internet, WANTS to believe that letter is true and I guess need it to be for a certain narrative.

Lefty bashing is only done by a few people here and they have no shame at all imo.

The rest just like to fight in sub-threads imo.

[djean111]

25. No one said Steve could not read it and reply back or whatever.

Steve just does not get to tell anyone that they don't get to write something. With any authority, that is.

I agree with you about that article. Like I said in that thread, it almost looks like an attempt to make "liberal" a bad word, since some politicians are not going to be able to fool all of the people, all of the time, into believing that they are a liberal.
The continuing series of "Would you vote for Bernie/HRC if...." is interesting. I wonder if the DNC is considering not letting Bernie be on any ballots that they can block his access to. For me, that would show me that this was getting to be more of a contested primary than they planned on, and I would have to go for Bernie. All the way. It would have quite the dampening effect on places like Reddit, too. Interesting and illuminating times.

[Rex]

29. Oh authority, yeah well I wouldn't really put much stock into that kind of thing in GD.

The DLC/DNC is worried about Sanders, that is very clear. Snotty blog writers that want to be taken seriously as they whine about whinners is the LAST thing on my list to worry about.

Now watching this thread, is something I am into.

[merrily]

211. We were falsely accused for years of being single issue voters, wanting ponies and

Last edited Wed Jul 1, 2015, 02:27 AM - Edit history (1)

unicorns, etc. Now, we're supposed to be single issue voters.

Double standards could not be more obvious.

ETA: Scratch double standards. It's closer to situational "standard."

[TheKentuckian]

346. "Single issue" is bullshit code for caring about issues other than MAYBE a few preapproved ones.

In fact, the folks spouting that line of garbage are the ones most likely to actually be single issue voters for real.

[merrily]

373. Thank you. You are a much clearer thinker than I.

[polly7]

42. Or, he could just reply with

(Seems to fit just about everything here).

[merrily]

222. ....

[WilliamPitt]

14. I don't get to write this?

Stop me.

Oh boo hoo, I sad bad things about a politician.

I DON'T GET TO WRITE THIS??

The authoritarian strain continues unabated.

[stevenleser]

16. Nope, you don't. Not unless you want to out yourself as a hypocrite. That's up to you. nt

[WilliamPitt]

18. So you're for freedom

but I can't speak my mind?

Find a mirror.

[fadedrose]

177. "a" politician

I could say bad stuff about more than one.

[Rex]

17. LOL. You are a writer and know he gets to write whatever he thinks up.

However I have to agree with you (cue doomsday music), he shouldn't have called the POTUS a POS.

[Hiraeth]

36. Agree.

[corkhead]

32. When did you become the arbiter of what people say on DU?

If I recall plenty of people spoke up about that POSUCS thing at the time and ironically it continues to be kept alive by those who seemed to have the biggest problem with it.

Are some people allowed to complain about what others post on DU while others are not? If so, I didn't get the memo.

[L0oniX]

183. Must be some influence from appearing on Fox.

[Lars39]

245. Let's say it a bit plainer: He gets money from Fox.

[bvar22]

341. That is what I figured.

You can't go there without getting some on yourself.

[truebrit71]

41. Yeah, he kinda does...

...but your concern has been noted...

Since when has Obama been "on the left"?

[grasswire]

82. +1000

I couldn't figure out who Leser was talking about: ally on the left a POS? Who could that be?

[G_j]

93. exactly!

lol

[geardaddy]

52. question: what's a POSUCS? n/t

[corkhead]

59. Funny I didn't know either until recently but it keeps being kept alive by

those who were the most displeased by it. Piece Of Shit Used Car Salesman. It refers to how an individual who frequently posts on DU felt the ACA was sold to the American people after having a bad personal experience with it. Others on DU were apparently so stimulated by the original post that it quickly became a popular acronym.

For whatever reason it keeps coming back up like a bad penny. I suspect axe grinding is involved.

[geardaddy]

61. Thanks!

[WilliamPitt]

67. "it keeps coming back up like a bad penny"

People need hobbies.

Happy to oblige.

[rhett o rick]

114. When they can't argue issues, they cling to things like that. nm

[2banon]

124. Ohhhh.. lol! I thought the last half meant something else entirely.. LOL!

Thanks for clearing that one up for me. I've been up in the mendocino hills frying my brains out on 110 degree (in the shade) 4 day music fest.. now catching up, checking on what I've been missing with my inner-tubes . this one really had me scratching my head.

[m-lekktor]

103. offs Obama is NOT on the left.

[rhett o rick]

116. What was your first clue? Seriously, what? Mine was the choice of Rick Warren to pray on

inauguration day. Pres Obama hated the left so much, he couldn't give us one single day. I cried at his inauguration but felt gut punched when POS Rick Warren gave the prayer. Then good-bye Dean and Van Jones. Hello Rahmbo. And the list went right from there. Almost every single appointment was conservative. The ACA wasn't what the left wanted. He isn't on the Left except maybe the Left of HRC.

[2banon]

131. I knew before he unceremoniously dumped Dean and Van Jones..no words describe how I feel about it.

I am unable to describe my feelings about those two decisions, other than to say before those two actions, I think I was partly awake and partly asleep. the one-two punches happened so unexpectedly and quickly it's easy to see why the strategists went for early dismissal (which were obviously pre-planned) so that we'd all forget about it come next election. and golly gee that worked out pretty well didn't it?

[Aerows]

133. You have to wonder if there isn't some

"consumer opinion panel" wondering "Now why won't these fucking Democrats behave and act like Republicans?"

[merrily]

246. Yes. I believe that consumer panel is called Supporters of Bernie Sanders for President or

something like that.

[2banon]

331. well it is rather stunning how well the propaganda merchants shop their bullshit,

cuz we're just the "marks" in the big circus who never seem to see the obvious as it's being dished out, before we get played.

[rhett o rick]

350. Exactly. Put what the panel has decided is to not waste any time on the Left. They won't

follow directions for shit. This is why they don't have a clue as to what to do with Sen Sanders. He is appealing to more than just the Left. I mean not a clue other than Swiftboating. It's already begun with McCaskill as the latest warrior. But I think that tactic, while it worked on poor Kerry, will backfire on Sen Sanders. When Rove pulled Kerry's pants down in public (metaphorically of course), Kerry took it like a gentleman, didn't get mad. "Good game ole chap, what, what." I think we are beyond that. The people want some integrity in government.

[Aerows]

353. Goodness, I hope so.

I'm definitely one that is on board with some integrity in government. Sanders does what he says and I'm sure that is terrifying more than a few in the third-way realm.

Posts like the OP just confirm that Hillary's camp is afraid she's going to lose again. And they really should be.

[rhett o rick]

356. Sen Sanders said he recognizes the risk he is putting himself and his family in by

challenging the Oligarchs. But he was willing to do it if millions of us had his back. He is doing his part, we must do ours.

[bvar22]

347. Obama passed Hillary's Helth Insurance Plan...

a mandate for every person to purchase Insurance from For Profit vendors, with NO Public Option. Obama eviscerated Hillary at the debates explaining in detail how a MANDATE would NOT work without a Public Option ("To keep them honest&quot .

I wonder If Hillary was pissed when she saw that Obama passed HER Health Insurance Plan.

[rhett o rick]

351. Good point. nm

[H2O Man]

105. Respectfully disagree.

I have a lot of respect for you, even if I don't always agree with you. But I strongly disagree with you here. In fact, Mr. Pitt not only has a right to express this opinion, but a responsibility to ....for that is what politics is all about.

Likewise, I appreciate your right to disagree with him, and to express your opinion on the topic at hand.

[passiveporcupine]

158. expressing opinion is one thing

telling others to shut the fuck up is not expressing an opinion. It's trying to control the conversation and/or put others down. It's trying to shut down freedom of expression...the very thing he seems to think he should have whenever he is feeling emotional about an issue.

[H2O Man]

168. Context is important here.

That comment is a response to an essay that a non-forum member wrote, and that a forum member posted/ linked to, to purposefully insult a group of forum members. Because the author of the said essay is not a forum member, I think it is clear the "shut up" comment was a device to express an opinion that author will never see, rather than an attempt to silence anyone.

Like each and every one of us, the author of this OP has strengths and weaknesses -- which often depend upon the reader's point of view. However, after knowing him reasonable well for over a decade, I'm comfortable saying that I have never seen him attempt to discourage anyone from debating opinions. Quite the opposite: I think he rather enjoys a good heated debate, from time to time.

[passiveporcupine]

170. Since I suspect he knew the author would never see his words,

I respectfully disagree about whom was targeted with his message.

YMMV

[H2O Man]

171. In my opinion,

others here should study our brief exchange here, and take notes: we disagree, but are respectful. Neither of us insult or attack the other.

Wouldn't it be great if most/all DU disagreements -- especially during the primary season -- were near this level of civility?

Peace to you, my Friend.

[passiveporcupine]

172. Yes, peace is always appreciated

[bvar22]

112. When did you make up THAT rule.

I've been at DU since 2001, and I've never heard of it.
However, the Republicans have some rules like that.

[L0oniX]

185. Erhmmm (grumble mumble) something about self importance.

[Aerows]

307. LOL

You nailed it as usual, my friend!

[rhett o rick]

113. I think you point out a big difference between the Progressive Wing and the Conservative Wing

of our party. The Conservative Wing demands that we not ever call any Democrat to task. They demand blind obedience.

What was posted in the OP is what progressives believe, not what the Conservatives believe.

What do you believe in?

[Scuba]

160. Bingo!

[cui bono]

213. He also pointed out that he cares more about a politician who is a public figure who is

expected to be criticized than he does about a fellow poster who was in anguish about the health of his loved one when he made that emotional outburst. Talk about zero compassion.

[merrily]

223. I find that prevalent here. You can bring a fellow DUer to tears, drive him or her off the board,

and even rejoice about having done so. But, you can't post anything against a politician who will never see your post.

And the constant bashing over something posted in anguish and, I think, apologized for, is---no words.

The other day, I tried to point this out to a poster, tried to let him know that he was piling on to an OP who was already in considerable distress. His response was something about Bernie Sanders. I couldn't even read the rest of his post.

[cui bono]

225. Yes. And those that bring it up have attributed some importance to it which can only be

that they took it personally since they are too emotionally attached to this politician - really an abstract person whom they will never know and will never know them. Because really, what does it matter what Pitt called Obama? What difference did it make? Other than the behind the scenes campaign to get Pitt banned that it generated. That was rich. It's just an excuse for them to keep harping on him, they think they can now discredit his every word because they have decided and decreed it so. Never mind that he was in real emotional pain at the time.

[merrily]

228. zero tolerance, even when a loved one is ill and even after apology.

not leftist.

[Bugenhagen]

226. I couldn't agree more. It's pathological.

I remember the original post. It takes a degenerated, cynical bastard to use it out of context as a weapon.

[merrily]

229. I don't remember the original post, but I've seen swarming to link and re-post, several times on a

single thread at times.

?w=1000

[Bugenhagen]

232. The original post was really hard reading

It isn't my business to discuss Mr. Pitt's personal life, but I absolutely recall the torment he was going through when he wrote the original post. And it was (if edited for brevity) a great story. A later poster with a lot of knowledge of the new law or the insurance industry or the biopharm industry (or a combination of the three) was able to give advice that lead to a solution to Mr. Pitt's really hideous situation involving a sick loved one. Those posts, put together, in context were really moving. I don't think anyone with a heart could not have been moved.

[merrily]

234. Apparently, many were not moved then and have felt free to pile on since.

[cui bono]

365. Several were moved. Moved enough to work behind the scenes to attempt to get Pitt

banned.

[merrily]

372. The more things change, the more they stay the same, as the French supposedly say.

As a juror, I've been judging posts and I have no idea why someone alerted. Even after I read the alerter's comments, I have no idea. But, someone usually votes to hide anyway.

[bvar22]

374. I was touched by the Passion and the Grief.

Mr Pitt is an excellent writer, and he did a superb job conveying the turmoil, confusion, grief
and abandonment he felt that night.
I, among many, appreciate Will for just that quality.

[rhett o rick]

329. It's a very small number but they are enabled by others. It's authoritarian behavior.

The need to control, to alert, lock, hide those that they don't agree with. And the worst is the piling on to drive people out. And then the grave dancing which is the ugliest behavior ever for supposedly politically liberal persons. "They deserved it" is the justification they use, which is always what the bully said on the playground.

[merrily]

330. It is also what domestic abusers say. "You had it coming to you."

[bvar22]

375. Other countries have tried that approach.

It always ends badly.

[bvar22]

352. Zero Compassion.

Nailed it.

[riderinthestorm]

360. And apologies are conveniently forgotten or shit upon.

Some folks are klassy and believe their "cute" acronym actually makes them clever.

Instead it simply marks them as shallow and nauseatingly partisan to the exclusion of all else, including compassion.

[wyldwolf]

129. Exactly.

[Bonobo]

143. It is people like you

That maintain the myth that Obama and other centrists are on the left.

Don't stop reading. This is important.

That myth that you support, appearing on Fox News as their useful punching bag or whatever you are...

That myth that you support that keeps actual progressives from coming to the fore...

That myth that you support that centrists like Hillary are the left...

It is a story, an illusion of choice when in reality the choices are narrow as fuck. Present wildly crazy right wingers on one side, present true progressives on the other side and have stooges treat them as the left version of crazies... Poof! Center wins.

And tools like you don't get to come to DU and claim that they are Progressives.

[RiverLover]

178. +a gazillon!!!

This is thread win to me!

I doubt though, that it will break through the wall. But maybe, just maybe, they'll begin to notice things here & there, what's being said vs what's being done, & someday maybe some will see what's been hiding behind the popular but deceitful narrative.

....The narrative that hides the fact that the center, oh so 'pragmatic', Democrats are actually Democrats(R) who are for women's & gay rights.

[merrily]

243. .....

I used to say to our audiences: "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!"

I, Candidate for Governor: And How I Got Licked (1935), ISBN 0-520-08198-6; repr. University of California Press, 1994, p. 109.

Feel free to interpret the word "salary" loosely.

[truebrit71]

179. No shit. Obama an ally on the left?

Since fucking when? Puh-leez....

[L0oniX]

184. ^^^this^^^

[Bonobo]

186. He has me on ignore so won't read it.

I guess he doesn't receive criticism as well as he gives it.

[merrily]

235. Oh, I don't know. Someone who claimed to be putting me on ignore replies to me often.

I never understand why people announce who they are putting on ignore anyway. It's perfectly possible to put someone on ignore without announcing it.

Is the person being put on ignore supposed to be insulted that someone who hates him or her won't be replying nastily to him orr her any longer?

"Oh, please, not *gasp* IGNORE. Oh, the horror! I just can't stand the thought that you won't be trolling me in the future--assuming you actually even keep your word."

I just got an idea: After the primary ends, I will change my tag line to "Put me on ignore. PLEASE."

On another message board, where Republicans were welcome (and mostly nasty), a liberal friend's tag line was, "Bite me. No, really. Bite me."

I smiled every time I read it.

[msanthrope]

145. Indeed....the originator of POSUCS now decries a lack of comity. How rich. nt

[passiveporcupine]

152. Thank you Steve

A better example of hypocrisy I could not have found.

[Logical]

194. Advice from you? Lol! Nt

[cui bono]

210. And yet he just wrote it.

And you are hanging onto the false meme, still. Amazing. You care more about him having said that than the anguish he was going through when he made that emotional outburst. And that says it all. Shows your complete lack of compassion for a fellow human being. One that you interact with on a message board. Presumably just because you don't agree with his position, particularly about a politician.

You need to get your priorities straight. Try caring more about humanity and a person's emotional state than a politician you idolize. I mean really, what does it even matter that he said those words in the scheme of things? It doesn't. At all.

[DanTex]

301. Exactly.

[ibegurpard]

361. Which ally would that be?

You surely can't mean Obama?

[Ichingcarpenter]

8. Kick & Rec

[merrily]

238. +1 Who doesn't love Tom Tomorrow?

[truebluegreen]

9. Thumbs up....

but, I've been out for a few days--can someone explain/link to "dismal" and "rancid"? Thx!

[bunnies]

24. Left-bashing link provided below.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026921753

[truebluegreen]

48. Good Dog.

Bad enough that someone took the time to write that vomitous drivel, even worse that it was posted on DU.

[bunnies]

50. And Im sure it will be posted again.

Disgusting as it is, it shows us who the haters of the left are on DU.

[truebluegreen]

53. Yup. I've been taking notes. nt

[merrily]

247. LOL, was that a mystery before posting of that ugly, poorly written piece?

[cui bono]

233. Not surprised by who posted it and who rec'd it.

If they hate the people who care about and fight for what the Dem Party purports to stand for, then what they hell are they doing here?

[Aerows]

314. The rec list

looks like my ignore list.

[progressoid]

26. This dreck...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026921753

[truebluegreen]

49. Dreck indeed.

Are the corporatists running scared?

[merrily]

248. They always do. That's why they're so authoritarian and insistent on lock step.

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose,
Nothing don't mean nothing honey if it ain't free, now now.
And feeling good was easy, Lord, when he sang the blues,
You know feeling good was good enough for me,
Good enough for me and my Bobby McGee.

Me and Bobby McGee

[Triana]

11. BAM!

Thank you Will Pitt. Just THAT.

[snooper2]

13. A letter has to be written on paper

Just FYI-

Don't they teach that in school anymore

[WilliamPitt]

20. Fail.

Try to keep up.

[snooper2]

30. I've got a Cisco ATA in the lab I can send you, supports T.38 Fax over VoIP

That keeping up?

You can then fax your letters to anywhere over IP! Awesome technology LOL

[Rex]

22. LOL! You can stay mired in the last century. Some of us evolve along with the words we use.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1VFKB_enUS637US637&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=letter+to+the+editor&tbm=nws

I kid!

I guess Correspondence to the Editor just doesn't sound right. Oh wait...that won't work.

[merrily]

271. I looked at a few dictionary definitions of the word. None mentioned paper expressly.

Some, however, said it was "especially" something sent by mail. Of course, "especially" does not mean exclusively.

[oberliner]

19. Can you maybe try to go a month without swearing?

Aren't you supposed to be some kind of journalist?

[WilliamPitt]

21. Fuck no.

We have to swear off the books or our faces explode.

Cope.

[Rex]

23. LOL! This thread is entertaining!

A call now for no vulgarities on DU! This is rich.

[grasswire]

83. excellent

Although no Godwin yet.

[L0oniX]

188. CL in effect...

[Violet_Crumble]

294. Now I want to go out and buy everyone a Swear Bear...

[oberliner]

33. Just thought I'd ask

Everyone has their own style, I guess.

[Hissyspit]

126. Why?

[L0oniX]

187. OFFS ...this is the new century, not the fucking 1900's.

[jtuck004]

242. Here's an excerpt of a page with no swearing. I find it much more disturbing.

Almost as disturbing as the money paid to bank$ter/donors which could have gone for jobs, infrastructure, food.

http://www.fns.usda.gov/sites/default/files/pd/SNAPsummary.pdf

...
Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program Participation and Costs
(Data as of June 5, 2015)
Average Benefit
Per Person 1] All Other Costs 2
----------Millions of Dollars----------
Fiscal Year Average Participation (thousands)
2000 - - - - - 17,194
2007 - - - - - 26,316
2008 - - - - - 28,223
2009 - - - - - 33,490
2010 - - - - - 40,302
2011 - - - - - 44,709
2012 - - - - - 46,609
2013 - - - - - 47,636
2014 - - - - - 46,536
...

[merrily]

255. All that new job creation and rising DOW stuff seems to be working wonders.

Maybe not on Main Street, USA, but still....

You have given us one great illustration of the distinction between "obscene" and "swearing."

[merrily]

251. I seldom included swears in my posts until people started threads against swears in posts.

Since then, I've tried to include at least one per post. I'll make an exception for this post, though I am sorely tempted.

[Aerows]

315. I gratuitously added

a few fucks and shits to some posts where I never would have given a shit or a fuck.

[merrily]

318. After those threads? They were a year or two ago.

Last edited Fri Jul 3, 2015, 12:20 AM - Edit history (1)

What really made me switch "styles:" I was vigorously defending the right of posters to swear.

A poster who was against swears asked me why I was doing that, given that my posts contained no swears. As if freedom of speech were only about what I want to be free to say.

I think I replied to him or her with a few swears and haven't stopped since, unless I forget or a spite swear would be totally inappropriate, as on a memoriam thread.

IRL, swearing doesn't come naturally to me. As a kid, I was taught that even Gee and Golly should not be used. Habits formed when young die hard. But breaking habits to defy those who would like to be able to control the posts of others comes much more easily.

[bvar22]

377. I hardly ever fucking swear,

except when the assholes deserve it.

[Hiraeth]

28. Today, I rec a Will Pitt thread. K&R

[Rex]

31. Same here, been a while.

Plus he used 'shut the fuck up', twice!

[Hiraeth]

37. I wish I could rec it again for that alone ;-)

[Rex]

39. Fuckinga!

[geardaddy]

58. Croeso i DU Hiraeth!

[grasswire]

84. the only non-English swear words I know

Zum Teufel.

Not quite as exotic as Will's.

[geardaddy]

88. Haha!

Croeso isn't a swear word, it's "welcome" in Welsh.

Now, if you want some Welsh swear words, I can teach you. There are some great ones. In fact there's a whole online dictionary just for Welsh swearing. It's all in Welsh though.

www.rhegiadur.com

[grasswire]

91. considering that I have some Welsh ancestors.....

.....maybe I ought to check that out.

[WillyT]

34. HUGE K & R !!! - THANK YOU !!!

[merrily]

236. Coming from another of DU's great Williams, that's high praise.

Last edited Wed Jul 1, 2015, 11:18 AM - Edit history (1)

[WillyT]

320. Aw Shucks...

[truebrit71]

40. Indeed.

Well said!

[sabrina 1]

43. They out themselves when they use the words 'The Left'!

I am a proud leftie and as such can't imagine referring to myself as if I were the enemy. I like it when I know who is left and who is not. Not that it is difficult to discern.

[BrotherIvan]

108. I like it when people finally reveal themselves

Then the bullshit no longer has power. Forty people recced that thread, some of whom claim to be liberals or progressives. It is very telling that a certain candidate's supporters loathes The Fringe Left. But even more telling that our rancid whining and moaning magically transformed the establishment corporate candidate into a populist. That's an achievement.

[merrily]

249. And don't you just love it when a Democratic politician says, "My friends on the left?"

Sweetheart, on which side of the Senate do you sit?

[polly7]

44. Kick and recommend. nt.

[silenttigersong]

45. Well said

Thank you!

[99th_Monkey]

46. How dare you speak up after being attacked & ridiculed

WHO do you think you are? You need to "learn your place".

[Duval]

47. Sums up what we need to do

very nicely, Mr. Pitt, Will, WRP! We need you to shake us up, spell it out, and inspire us to get busy working on these goals. Thank you and I promise to get more busy right away. Whew! Where to start?

[SpankMe]

51. From "Here's what" to "industry" in the second paragraph...

...should be the entire Democratic party platform. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Skittles]

151. I agree with his assessment

they do need to SHUT THE FUCK UP

[Snotcicles]

55. Word...........nt

[LWolf]

56. Thank you. nt

[Spitfire of ATJ]

57. I've seen this sentiment, "This is 'DEMOCRATIC Undergound' so get in line you Liberals!"

[cui bono]

215. Imo, that whole 'social justice vs. economic justice' is just a false arguement put forth

by centrists to create a false reason why we have to vote for Hillary. Or to give them cover for supporting her. I'm not finding the right words... but it seems that's the only way they can make her seem like the best choice, to make economic centrism okay. As if we can't fight for both, and as if they don't go together.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

224. Hillary is riding on the MEMORY of a good economy under Bill....

The Republicans are claiming the currently good economy under Obama is a disaster so let's see if Hillary jumps on that bandwagon to claim she'll fix Obama's bad economy.

It'll be funny to see if any previously fiercely loyal Obama supporters toss him under the Scoobie Van.

[merrily]

260. The Left is not welcome here! We're Democrats!

[Doctor_J]

60. "We hate you, and won't do anything for you once in office, but you have to vote for us"

The New Democrats' view of liberals

Rec

[merrily]

267. Fine line between hate and utter contempt.

[JDPriestly]

62. K&R.

[Le Taz Hot]

64. I can't believe a piece of shit post like that

was left to stand. I didn't see it originally as I have that particular poster on Ignore -- any questions as to why? But for some reason I was able to see the link someone in this thread provided. Weird.

[BrotherIvan]

137. Some posters are more equal than others

[Le Taz Hot]

138. That's been true at DU for a long time.

Check the offending post from that particular poster and compare that with what happened to NYC_SKP after ONE ill-thought-out post. Not even a warning.

[BrotherIvan]

140. Some posters can even make sock puppets while on time out

and not get banned. So banning only is for *some* people.

[cui bono]

216. I keep hearing that some posters have permanent sock puppets.

So they either are given a pass or they are a hell of a lot smarter than their posts would have one believe.

[BrotherIvan]

221. Ayup

The one we called out, "Emily" has not returned. I guess that's the best way to do it. There are quite a lot of conveniently new conservative posters here as well. Curious.

[merrily]

269. It can be hard to tell a sock puppet from a sleeper cell.

The latter is my name for a screen name created just in case of a banning or other need. Like voting in a poll, for example. Or increasing one's chances of serving on a jury. Or posting something more controversial than usual.

When something gets my spidey sense tingling, I check profiles sometimes and that's how some of them look to me.

[merrily]

268. NYC_SKP was only letting a RW troll know he (NYC_SKP) was on to him or her (the troll).

But, because NYC had been a frequent critic of Hillary, he was misunderstood and banned.

[Le Taz Hot]

293. You are EXACTLY right.

Prepare for more of those as the primary season goes on. Seen it before.

[merrily]

304. No worries here. If I cannot post what I wish, I would rather not post.

So far, I've had two hides. One was intentional on my part because, at the time, I thought saying "fuck you" to a particular poster was worth a hide. Now, I like him. (HUGE lesson learned.)

The other was because I failed to use the sarcasm emote on a post because I thought the sarcasm in the post so obvious that I would be insulting the intelligence of DUers if I used it.

I had failed to account for things like a juror who actually let me know he or she knew I was being sarcastic, but gleefully voted to hide anyway, saying next time I'd know to use the emote.

If I get banned because I support Bernie, or for posting facts that are not flattering to Hillary, I will be fine with that.

[Le Taz Hot]

305. After awhile it's easy to post just barely out of reach of a successful Alert.

Frustrates the hell out of them. 'Course then they're more determined than ever, they call out the Swarm (see people who recced that thread) and they'll try to get you banned or at the very least, posting privileges temporarily revoked. It's EXACTLY what happened to cali.

I've had dozens of hides through the years and a good portion of them were posts I knew were going to get zoinked, but it was worth it. I've had hides that, like cali's were a joke. But I've never been put on time-out. I think Skinner's been pretty close to banning my ass a couple of time but, for whatever reason, he let's me stay. For now.

[merrily]

308. See, and I would have thought "out of reach" would include posting that Wendy Davis had some

nerve supporting elementary schools when those kids were sucking at the taxpayers; teat instead of creating jobs, as they should be.

But that was hidden for lack of a sarcasm emote.

The other day, I got alerted on, but did not get a hide. One juror called it the worst alert he or she had seen in years of posting. Still, it got some hide votes.

It's about whether the political position you hold matches the political position of a majority of jurors or not.

[Le Taz Hot]

310. Always remember

that there's a double standard on DU. Always has been. The Third-Wayers will almost never get banned no matter what they say or do. There's a thread in GD right now attempting to trap progressives. There was one in GD-P that was laid out so poorly a first-time DU poster would have detected it right off. If either one of those had been posted by a progressive, criticizing the current corporate-friendly "Democrats" the post would have been locked and the posters banned.

[merrily]

312. To be fair, I've seen very bad hides on both sides, when people post jury comments.

But, I agree about banning. To be fair on that as well, I think more centrists volunteer as hosts and members of the MIRT team.

I think it's a built in bias as well. Liberals, by definition, tend to oppose censorship in all its forms. So, not as many will volunteer to be enforcers, unless it's defensively.

But, as I said, it doesn't matter to me. If I can't post what I want, I don't see a point in posting anyway. Getting banned would be a clear signal that I was on the wrong board.

Marx famously said he wouldn't belong to any club that wanted him as a member. My version is that I don't want to belong to any club that doesn't want me as a member.

[joshcryer]

155. Members with violent histories might get a pass...

...so they can get away with telling civilized members to "shut the fuck up"? Close to using ignore myself.

Remember, OP got banned for violent threats against another DUer.

[Depaysement]

161. Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones

Someone advocated strongly for a war that maimed and killed thousands and still rages. That might just be a wee bit worse than a fleeting DU post from Southie.

Be nice now.

[joshcryer]

165. Yeah, defending innocent people...

...many of whom were my friends means I advocated war...

Your attempt at a low blow is quaint.

Especially since you didn't join until 3 years after I covered it. Good to have fans.

[Depaysement]

166. You should go back and read your posts

Quite a bit more than "defending innocent people."

[joshcryer]

167. I have many times.

I have the entire thing archived. Bet you can't provide a single post of mine in the vein of OPs banned offense.

[polly7]

175. People were all over you for being so abusive. You were no angel pushing that horror day in and day

out.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2164258#2165585

Just one example. You couldn't stand that anyone was trying to point out the lies of it all and the real reasons for the 'humanitarian intervention (that wasn't).

[joshcryer]

189. Oh man.

Lizzy. Not worth my time.

I knew people who died in that conflict as Lizzy spread her propaganda.

Bye bye.

[polly7]

309. No, it was you I was referring to.

You absolutely hated those of us who dared to oppose the destruction of Libya and its people. You were abusive towards us every single time we brought up facts that contradicted your daily dozens of rah-rah posts, even as we showed the atrocities pro-Quaddafi Libyan people, migrants, were suffering. It wasn't a matter of you 'knowing' anyone. You hated us, period.

[bvar22]

349. I was there. Polly is right.

We were treated to daily propaganda posts from you calming that the tribal "rebels" in Mogadishu
were really dentists, shop keepers and students fighting for their rights.


Like I told you back then, Libya was in the middle of an on-going Civil War, and the "rebels" you were supporting were much worse than Qaddafi.
Now we have Sharia Law in Libya, the country that once had the highest standard of living in North Africa has now been destroyed, tribal ethnic cleansing is in progress,
and the whole place is now one big shithole.

Are you proud of yourself?
Did you learn anything?

Who was you friend who also posted the Libya Propaganda with you every day?

[joshcryer]

354. It was a daily/weekly news thread.

Which was drowned out by dozens of posts of daily islamaphobic garbage.

[Depaysement]

316. Yes, it is not in the same vein

I said as much earlier in this chain. You advocated for much more violence than Will Pitt ever has or will.

And then there's this - http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=51298#.VZP6e2Aqq50

Half a million refugees.

[Le Taz Hot]

303. I have most of them on Ignore already

but I keep a few out of the cage for an occasional laugh. It's especially entertaining when, policies that they abhorred with the Bush Administration is all of a sudden okey dokey with the Obama administration.

[Bonobo]

298. The funny thing about it was that the tone of that fucking author, all the pompous, arrogance and

sickeningly condescending putrid, sanctimonious, self-serving, self-aggrandizing bullshit...


it is all mirrored precisely in the OP, who has an identical tone.

[rhett o rick]

328. I missed something. Can you give me the link that you are speaking of? nm

[Romulox]

65. I'm really surprised to see some of our long-term "progressive" posters come out to bash "the Left".

It seems like there is a cognitive dissonance setting in around Hillary supporters such that all previous values are out the window and "the Left" is now seen as an enemy.

[hifiguy]

122. Identity politics ratched up to twenty, as Nigel Tufnel might put it.

Polices and records do not count and mentioning them is a "smear" regardless of how much documentation and how many facts you have to back it up.

[merrily]

256. Is it really surprising, though?

BTW, some of the longer term posters who've been bashing the left of late have averaged fewer than 50 posts a year since they registered, some as far back as 2001. We seem to have woken quite a few sleeping "giants." I, for one, am glad they were finally motivated to start speaking up again. The more the merrier. A few are even kind enough to instruct us on how we should post.

[Rex]

376. Yeah those sleeper account all seem to be following one narrative.

Showing up all over the place! You know, they just took 10 years off from DU and decided to come back...yup...

[KoKo]

66. ...!

[quickesst]

68. . here you go...

http://study.com/articles/10_Universities_Offering_Free_Writing_Courses_Online.html

just trying to help.

[Ed Suspicious]

69. The perfect party platform.

[whatchamacallit]

70. Thanks dude K&R!

[mntleo2]

71. And fer gawd's sake stop buying into the war on the poor crap!

...as a long time activist I am just plain sick of the finger pointing done in an obvious attempt to draw attention away from downright massive greed. We were all taught that, 'when you point the finger three fingers are pointing back at you...' . Don't those nimrods get it? It ain't working anymore!

My 2 cents,

Cat in Seattle

[Owl]

72. Excellent! Well said Will!

K&R

[lark]

73. Good list, I'll sign up for those!

I'd like to add, women get to control their own reproduction, SINGLE PAYER, decriminalize marijunana, increase fuel stds., end tax giveaways to oil companies, end Citizens United, hack proof voting machines with verifiable tallies, corporations get taxed for every job they move out of the US and taxed on foreign sales. Min. taxation for rich and corps, increased taxes on the millionaires, no government money to private religious schools, tougher environmental stds, tax breaks for renewable energy.

[questionseverything]

89. about those voting machines

http://www.standwithlaura.com/

Where are the Ballots?
We have a unique opportunity to legally challenge an election in which over 4,000 ballots are missing from electronic voting machines. We need your help with a contribution to move this lawsuit forward.



In December 2014, Dr. Laura Pressley ran for Austin City Council. Election night we were told she lost the election. Not believing those results, she ordered a hand recount of the ballots. Electronic voting machines in Texas are required to provide for "ballot image storage" of each ballot cast. Election law in Texas allows for a manual recount of images of ballots cast in electronic voting machines.

During Pressley's recount, it was discovered the images of the ballots that voters cast could not be retrieved. Basically, over 4,000 ballots are missing. Dr. Pressley filed an election contest and lawsuit in the attempt to determine the true outcome of her election.

Vote Protection

This is the first lawsuit filed by a Texas candidate that brings to light electronic voting machines and their lack of retention of images of the ballots cast as required by the Texas Election Code. With no ballot images, election results cannot be verified. The checks and balances for our elections are placed into question and the integrity of our vote is at risk. We need your help in moving this critical election lawsuit forward to Save Our Vote!

[Oilwellian]

75. K&R

Shut the fuck up, indeed.

[onecaliberal]

76. Yes, exactly, perfect!

[randome]

77. Go at it with talon and tooth? Maybe those with anger management issues.

The rest of us are here to learn and to contribute.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)[/center][/font][hr]

[grasswire]

85. nobody nannies Will.

and that's the way it should be.

[merrily]

259. I trust you posted something similar on the original "rancid left" thread.

[Kalidurga]

78. I love you.

That is should be our platform and this our battle cry.

[NRaleighLiberal]

79. Yup.

K and R!

[grasswire]

80. you forgot this:

Prosecute war crimes.

[merrily]

264. Never gonna happen

Even under President Sanders.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

81. But..but...being "practical" and "pragmatic" and "realistic" is ever so much more "expedient".

So, that some day, maybe, could happen, potentially, the things we complain about will happen magically if we just don't bother mentioning them.

[Utopian Leftist]

86. Yes we can!

And WILL when Bernie gets elected President!

No more lesser of two evils, whoo-hoo!

[m-lekktor]

87. exactly! THANK YOU!!

[staggerleem]

90. Fascinating!

Earlier today, BainsBane posted a lengthy quote from a 2012 editorial by Rebecca Solnit in the Guardian. The editorial, to my reading, essentially says "Hey, we HAVE done SOME good! Let's acknowledge, and maybe even celebrate the good we have done, rather than grouse about how much better it MIGHT have been."

Mr. Pitt responds as if Ms. Solnit farted in his general direction this very morning (my apologies to the French castle guards in Monty Python & the Holy Grail.)

Pittster - I want EVERYTHING on your "here's what" list. But you apparently were never taught about catching more flies with honey than with vinegar. Movements are NOT built on vinegar. The message "Everything SUCKS!" will NOT attract more people to your side of the argument. In fact, as Ms. Solnit suggested, that very attitude may be a more effective tool to suppress the vote from the left than any 10 things our illustrious Southern legislators have come up with.

I, for one, see no advantage to an American Left that is every bit as "ideologically pure" as the American Right currently is. In fact, I see SEVERAL disadvantages, not the least of which is that new ideas (and those are what we NEED, right?) tend to be unwelcome in purist environments.

[whatchamacallit]

92. Apparently you think Rebecca Solnit was "using honey"

The world is going to hell in a handbasket, fast. Incrementalism is a failure. We're entering the phase of Do or Die.

[staggerleem]

123. I'm 62 years old ...

... and I've been hearing your "Do or Die" crap for as long as I can remember. 40 years ago, my wife and I were reluctant to have a child because of the horrible world we'd be bringing a baby into. (Of course, we eventually did, anyway - and you don't even want to hear the punchline to THAT story!)

Y'know, I loved Jim Morrison & The Doors, but "We want the world and we want it NOW!" didn't work in 1969, and it can't work now either. We are aboard a battleship, my friend - you can pull that rudder as hard as you want, but the boat just CAN'T make a sharp U-turn. Incrementalism may suck, but as long as there are competing ideologies and opinions, it's all we've got!

[whatchamacallit]

141. Yes, we've all heard bogus prognostications before

but unless you're a climate change denier, you have to admit we now have a lot more on our plate than ever before. It's a fallacy to assume that because you haven't yet lived through a global catastrophe, one can't happen. Mater of fact it's a dangerous assumption because it shows you, and many others, don't fully grasp or accept the situation. The world is already physically changing before our eyes. The temperature trends are unprecedented, there are massive changes to biodiversity, global demands for water and energy are rapidly increasing as their sources and stores are dwindling... Your cute anecdote about being reluctant to have a kid 40 years ago don't mean shit in today's world. You think there's time because "there's always time..." Good luck to you. If you're right you'll check out before the ride gets too bumpy.

[staggerleem]

336. As I noted, we did eventually have that child.

He died in an accident at a swimming hole in June of 2001. So, there's nobody on the face of this planet who understands that there is NOT "always time" better than my wife and I, and being lectured on THAT topic REALLY gets my goat.

And while we may or may not check out before the excrement hits the air conditioner, we do see the feces approaching the blades. OUR home is solar powered - is YOURS??

The point of my original reply is that Pittster is kicking Solitz's butt over an editorial that she wrote THREE YEARS AGO (apparently, there IS "always time" to bitch at the people who ARE on your side, but not as far as you'd like them to be.)

I think that we can all agree that we NEED to grow a movement here. I DO NOT think that the best way to grow it is to throw certain potential allies under the bus for not being as "ideologically pure" as you may deem yourself. Ideological purity is the Republican's thing - I don't think we need or want it on the left. That kind of purity is the political equivalent of patent trolling - it's more about STIFLING new ideas than allowing them to bloom and grow.

I quoted Jim Morrison in an earlier post, and I'll paraphrase the same line here - "I want the world and I want it NOW!" is how a toddler deals with life. Those of you who want everything to change, for YOUR IDEA of the better - RIGHT NOW - have a pot-load of growing up to do.

In the real world, the only change that happens instantaneously is DEATH - in all it's myriad forms.

[whatchamacallit]

344. I am deeply sorry for your loss

Truly. I would never presume to comment, let alone lecture you, about your child. My comment related to your anecdote about the choice to have kids.

I understand your position, but am not seeing enough of the blooming and growing you elude to. Outside of a few meaningful advances in social justice, I see a lot more regression than slow and steady progress. This is because the folks with all the marbles aren't really interested in the same world we are. They have a different utopia in mind. They've also captured our political process, rendering your approach (working within the system) practically useless for addressing our problems. What ground has this patient, measured effort gained for us? The rich own everything, the wars roll on without end, more and more people fall through the economic cracks, we're continuing to lose our liberties, little is being done to deal with our impending ecological disaster... If your way is how it's done, why does shit just seem to get worse?

[bvar22]

345. We don't make battleships anymore,

but at the end of WW2, a Battleship at Full Speed could pull a U-Turn in about a minute.
The missile cruisers that have replaced the Battleship can do it in an an amazingly short time
(they wouldn't tell me how far or how long...classified),
but 4 -5 times faster than the old WW2 ships. (bow & stern thrusters, variable pitch props, etc.)

Warships have HUGE rudders and are generally very maneuverable.


Now a Container Ship.... better stay out of the way.
If there is anyone awake on the bridge
he is probably reading a book or watching porno and will not see you. Even if he did, and tried to turn that ship, they have such small rudders it would take forever. Small rudders are fuel efficient.

[Lars39]

95. *Never* acknowledging the problems doesn't bring us forward one bit.

And neither does attacking those on the same side. Disregarding the bad and only ever promoting the good results in sycophantic behavior, imo.

[riderinthestorm]

97. You need a history re-refresher. The Civil Rights battles, the Revolutionary War

the French Revolutionary War, the Civil War, GLBT rights, suffragettes - hell, virtually every movement I've ever seen wasn't based on recruiting followers with "honey".

There were promises of blood, hunger, pain, suffering, humiliation, and maybe some small steps towards "victory" but certainly the appeals for followers were more about how "Everything sucks!" than ponies and rainbows.

Solnit's article is getting a justified spanking imo.

[Fumesucker]

107. Your post is dismal, radical and rancid

Now, quit your whining and vote for my candidate.

[merrily]

261. The purist baloney is almost as played out as the baloney pony. Give that straw man a well-deserved

rest.

[Enthusiast]

283. Pluuus one!

[Betty Karlson]

96. Oh my, what an amazing grace speaks from your anger.

Thank you for that revelation. (No sarcasm)

[Enthusiast]

98. K&R! This post deserves hundreds of recommendations!

[polly7]

99. LOL. I love your enthusiastic kicks! nt.

[Enthusiast]

115. ...

[merrily]

262. 238 recs as of now and counting.

[Enthusiast]

270. Very good!

[H2O Man]

104. Thank you, Will!

Recommended, of course.

I found the other bit rather toxic. Truth is, they need to either have the Democratic Left (including progressive members of the Democratic Party), or a segment of republicans, to win the general election in 2016. Their nasty little insults only serve to damage their chances.

Again, thank you.

[msanthrope]

106. Sorry....I'm allies with the POSUCS....and my dance card is full. Nt

[sabrina 1]

118. Attacking the Left hasn't worked out so well for those Third Wayers, and as a result, for our party.

The backlash they receive each time they do it, doesn't seem to teach them any lessons.

Let them keep doing it. The Left is very busy right now preparing to straighten out the mess they made with their neo-liberal policies and Wall St corruption, and their endless wars.

And no we won't be distracted when they use women and minorities to try to get some 'liberal' creds.

We know who they are now, an that is why they are so frustrated and losing their cool and lashing out. See the two Third Way founders' attack on Elizabeth Warren in Murdoch's Wall St Journal and then see the backlash which was so fierce, those two arrogant, non elected Wall St Investors refused to discuss that disastrous attempt to show how powerful and smart they were.

[frylock]

132. +1

[Scuba]

162. + another

[L0oniX]

190. Attacking the left is what got us the fall of 2014.

[merrily]

250. I thought it was failing to improve the lives of Main Street's residents.

[Enthusiast]

286. That too.

[MisterP]

196. wrong on 2000, Iraq, Medicare, Wall Street, Pakistan, Libya, Syria, TPP ...

it's almost like they're just a smokescreen for corporate interests and never mean anything they threaten or promise

[sabrina 1]

198. They have latched on to our party convincing them that Dems had to change their message and

if they wanted to compete with Repubs in terms of getting Big Money donations.

They are not Dems, nor are they even Repubs. They are a Wall St Investor Think Tank.

They don't care much about women or minorities, but that is who they use to get Dem creds. They will willingly spout 'support' for those groups, but that's all they do.

They will fight like crazy to hold on to the power they have over both parties now. So Bernie is right when he says it will take a 'political movement' of Millions of people, not just HIM or any president, to defeat them.

They are ruthless and power hungry and they promote and pay for candidates to run for office in both parties.

The old 'vote for the guy with the 'D' after their name, s/he's better than the other guy' routine worked for a while, we did it. But people are no longer fooled by them and that is why Bernie is gaining so much popularity.

They didn't choose him, WE DID this time. And we have to watch for the nasty attacks that will be coming his way and not allow them to get away with it.

You can recognize them by how they talk about 'The Left', it's a dead giveaway that they are by no means part of the Left and their surrogates who either are part of their group, or mislead by their claims to be Dems, will do a lot of the dirty work for them.

[MisterP]

200. "forget everything you ever remembered! just clap your hands and SQUEAL!!!"

[merrily]

276. Since Warren and Sanders, even Chuy, began so obviously resonating with the public, I don't think

there will be as much public sneering as was reported during Obama's first term. In private, who knows?

[Enthusiast]

285. +1 a huge bunch!

[democrank]

119. The fact that we even need this post is extremely troubling.

Who would have thought that the Corporate Wing of our party would consider us leftist lunatics because we`re against torture? Or because we`re not hawks? Or because we back the unions? Or because we don`t want our candidates offering themselves up for sale like a chuck roast at Wal-Mart? Or because most of us wouldn`t hug Henry Kissinger, even if we could?

[Enthusiast]

288. +1!

[hifiguy]

120. Bravo.

Bra-fucking-vo!

Enough of the shit-stirrers.

[ljm2002]

125. +++ a gazillion!! n/t

[Hissyspit]

127. Yeah, that Guardian piece was awful.

Embarrassingly thought out.

[merrily]

257. The poor thinking and poor writing got lost in the shuffle of how mean-spirited and ugly it was.

[DonCoquixote]

128. as I told my good friend Seabeyond

There is sparring, and there is killing. Sparring is done by two people that respect each other, who wish to train because they know this is the best way to make sure you stay fit, quick, and have combat skills for when you NEED them. We may hit hard in sparring, but that is only so that come fight night, we can break the ribs and jaws of your real opponents, at which point we pop champagne in the locker room with our sparring partners, who are also our teammates.

The "dismal" chap you refer to is trying to play like Don King, waiting to see who wins the fight, the act like they were on their side all along, like they were the very reason they won. Nevermind the fact we know they are going to be throw to the glue boiler, because these people think they are slick enough to talk their way out of it and buy the glue factory while they are at it.

[Aerows]

130. I'd like to add

that when you alienate your allies, as was done in that ridiculous post you refer to, it isn't everybody else that needs to take a hard look at what they stand for.

I'm a proud member of the dismal and rancid (Let's just say it, dirty hippie) brigade, and I don't particularly give a fuck who knows it.

Anyone that apologizes for being a Democrat isn't a Democrat, they are an imposter.

I'll never apologize for being a Democrat, I embrace it!

[joshcryer]

134. Oh, here comes the tough talk again.

Another lecture about shit that didn't happen or won't.

[whatchamacallit]

144. What part of the "shit" he listed

didn't or won't happen? It has and continues to happen. Did you forget the sarcasm thingy or did I just read the dumbest comment of the day?

[joshcryer]

154. The entire post is full of it.

Take torture, Obama banned it day two in office. The entire post is full of outright crap like that. I don't have the time to rebut this same old crap again and again.

SS cuts, medicare cuts, never happened, etc.

And of course, after the "amazing grace" week we had to get a post script about how black lives matter... Almost as an afterthought... It's actually insulting.

[m-lekktor]

156. OH PLEASE torture never stopped under Obama!

unfuckingbelievable!

Jeremy Scahill proved THAT!!

you don't have time to "rebut the crap" because you CAN'T!!

[joshcryer]

169. Executive Order 13491

[merrily]

263. Talk to Amnesty International about black holes and extraordinary rendition. And drone killings.

Drone killing hurt less, but they're also much less appeal-able.

Lord knows, politicians never mislead, esp. by omission, and neither do posters.

[Bobbie Jo]

332. Thank you

Accuracy used to matter around here. The "making up shit as you go along" philosophy has run this site into damn the ground.

[eridani]

205. Soc Sec and Medicare cuts never happened because people raised holy hell about the proposals

If New Deal appreciating seniors had not had to spend so much time fighting the Catfood Commission in 2010, we wold have had a lot more time for doorbelling and phonebanking for Dem candidates.

[joshcryer]

252. There were NEVER votes for any form of it.

At no point where there votes for any form of Bowles-Simpson. It was political theater at its finest.

Candidate "I'll put everything on the table" Obama lived up to his promise.

Catfood Commission was a red herring and the left fell for it. Very very much like the article the OP is deriding suggests.

[merrily]

265. Oh, please. Those attempts to implement Third Way and Republican wet dreams failed. That's all.

As did the Grand Bargain Commission--but the Sperling's sequester proceeded anyway.

He made a pre-inauguration promise to cut entitlements and his first budget indeed included cuts to fuel subsidies and SNAP has been cut a number of times.

No one is buying the 27 dimensional chess fairy tales anymore, if ever they did. McConnell stuck fast to his "Don't support Obama on anything (except TPP, shhh) policy. Obama had no way of ensuring McConnell would do that, despite putting prized plums like OASDI and Medicare on the table.

Besides, the promise to cut entitlements was, in itself, damaging, coming, as it did, from a very popular Democratic President Elect. Now, it can forever be cited as proof that both major parties acknowledged that entitlements must be cut.

Obama has done a number of good things, but your post is dreamland.

[Enthusiast]

289. What an excellent post!

[merrily]

291. Thank you.

[eridani]

335. Had we ignored it, SocSec and Medicare would have been cut

You remind me of people who say that Rachel Carson was full of shit predicting all those bird species extinctions from DDT. People raising hell and getting DDT banned could not possibly have had anything to do with that book.

[merrily]

266. Because McConnell refused to allow Republicans to take the blame for something

Obama had proposed.

[bvar22]

343. Obama did NOT stop torture;

he outsourced it to countries that DO torture.

Renditions continue under Obama, despite due-process concerns

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/renditions-continue-under-obama-despite-due-process-concerns/2013/01/01/4e593aa0-5102-11e2-984e-f1de82a7c98a_story.html

[Hissyspit]

173. You mean the Guardian article, right?

[joshcryer]

193. I think people missed the underlying reason.

I think it went a bit far, but I like the idea of being able to hold different opinions on different things. The author obviously felt maligned because some can't operate this way.

Many people immediately took sides, and now we have the very vitriol exhibited by the article.

[Fumesucker]

241. The author felt maligned for holding different opinions?

The best way to get someone to stop doing something you don't like is to do that same thing back at them, yes?

[joshcryer]

244. I take it you didn't read the article?

The OP is basically telling anyone who agrees that we can like the good and dislike the bad to shut the fuck up.

The author being referenced used a lot of insults, "brush away some flies," "rancid sector," etc. You think that's unique to the author, though? It's most certainly not.

The author of course would not have even gotten 10 replies much less a completely dishonest OP that garnered hundreds of recs had she not been rather vitriolic. Had there not been shit stirring.

Would it be that the false proclamations of unity and respect for each other were actually upheld. But well within a week of such false, insincere, bullshit, the shitstirring comes back. The fucked up part is when we said that shit was insincere a less than a week ago, we were mocked and derided for not taking a rather blatantly insincere post for what it was.

[Fumesucker]

254. I wrote this OP early last year..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024353051

And I wrote this OP fairly recently.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026809625

I being the little pensive green man.

If you haven't figured out by now that everyone feels attacked on DU then you're not as perceptive as I have assumed.

[joshcryer]

258. I rec'd that first one.

[Logical]

195. You whine a lot! Nt

[joshcryer]

253. You insult a lot.

[Logical]

302. Lol, yes, after you say "Another lecture about shit that didn't happen or won't." Classy!

[RiverLover]

135. I can't tell you how much I love your post!

It nails almost everything for me (end subsidies to BigAg & BigOil, stop privatizing everything...only ones missing...otherwise it was truly sublime!)

Thanks!

[Thespian2]

136. K & R!!!

[Skittles]

147. love ya Will

say howdy to Raven for me

[Autumn]

153. By damn Will I think you've got it

Shut the fuck up is right. And hell fucking yes to everything else you so eloquently said.

[Scuba]

163. This proud member of the dismal and rancid team says ...

[L0oniX]

192. +1

[virtualobserver]

204. dismal, rancid and proud

it is a beautiful feeling

[fadedrose]

164. How about deductibles?

The costs of medical treatment is so high that even tho covered by Medicare or other insurance people can't afford the deductibles...even with a supplement...

I think I heard somewhere that hospital administrators make a bundle. While you're cleaning house, Pitt, do something about bringing the costs down.

[Hissyspit]

174. My deductible is $5,000.

[fadedrose]

176. Holy Cow

You really can't afford to go to the doctor's, can you?

No one is addressing that having insurance is not the cure, when prices are so high that you can't afford to go. And they can charge whatever because it's so hard to get an appointment because there really aren't enough doctors.

At least not in our town..

That's why they say not to retire unless you have $50,000 saved because you'll need it for health costs.

Stay healthy, Hissy....I'm a wreck, but funds have gotten low from treatments that helped, but the cost......

[greytdemocrat]

182. Yep.

My wife and I had to beg and plead to get accepted
by our current doctor.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

203. Mine's almost as high, but with the added "bonus" of a "Health Savings Account"

So not only do I have to pay a high premium, I have to save up money ("but it's pre-tax" *rolls eyes*) in order to go to the doctor's office.

So even though I have insurance, it barely covers my doctor's visits unless I can manage to save up anything in my budget. I have a sleep study my doctor wants me to do, but I told him that the first one (I couldn't get to sleep) cost me $1k after the insurance covered $700. So I can't afford it. And I can't get it.

And all my premiums and deductibles have done in the past ten years is increase. Even under the ACA, they've been up. And they're not going to stop going up. Insurance won't cure this. It'll just stave the bleeding for a little bit.

[Doctor_J]

199. mine's 8500

20% of my take home pay. Unbelievable what some people consider success.

[L0oniX]

181. In other words ...vote for Bernie. n/t

[Indepatriot]

191. More NITPICKING from the looney left......

next you'll be advocatin DEMOCRACY fer chrissakes...

[Blue_Tires]

197. I guess I must have missed something?

[Electric Monk]

220. ...

Last edited Wed Jul 1, 2015, 03:19 AM - Edit history (1)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026922812

or http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6921753

[merrily]

273. Yeah, I'm guessing he's not responding to madfloridian's post.

[AuntPatsy]

201. I obviously missed something but you forgot to add, and leave women's rights to the woman

herself to decide what's best for her...

Why do so many forget the attacks on women's rights, I'm sure it was an oversight,

[WilliamPitt]

292. It was.

Apologies.

I posted a revised version on my Facebook page this morning:

Here's what: No more wars based on lies, no more torture, no more bloated "defense" spending, protect the environment, spare us your fossil fuels and pipelines already, fuck fracking, fund education, fund Social Security, fund Medicare and Medicaid, put a steel-toe boot-stomp to the deranged assault on all things female, amnesty for the immigrants who pick the fruit you eat at breakfast, regulate the finance industry so far up their asses that the bump on their throat is the nose of the regulator, put the Wall Street/Banker thieves in prison, pave the roads, fix the bridges, and everyone deserves a damn job. Oh, P.S. Stop shooting unarmed Black men for no reason, put the tanks away, actually protect and serve, and while you're at it, dismantle the prison "industry."

[bvar22]

342. ...AND

...build a State of the Art High Speed Rail System for people and cargo that would be the envy of the World using ONLY American Manufactured Products, Materials, and Union LABOR.


BTW: If we stopped the elective WARS, we could do that with the Peace Dividend and have money left over.

[marmar]

202. Exactamente.

[merrily]

277. This was a necessary OP and a very enjoyable thread.

I love my fellow rancid leftists. They have the stench of populism and freedom all over them and that smell never makes me hold my nose.

[fadedrose]

296. William Pitt !!

Please try to find a way to fix problems for olks who have the same problem as me...insurance that is almost useless to have.....medicare allows one free checkup a year, and after that, look out. Medicine has found a cash cow. Or or at least acknowledge in your list...thank you..

[WilliamPitt]

297. It's a rough draft.

Edits to follow.

[blackspade]

321. K&R!

[nationalize the fed]

369. Fucking spot on

Here's what: No more wars based on lies, no more torture, no more bloated "defense" spending, protect the environment, spare us your fossil fuels and pipelines already, fund education, fund Social Security, fund Medicare and Medicaid, regulate the finance industry so far up their asses that the bump on their throat is the nose of the regulator, put the Wall Street/Banker thieves in prison, pave the roads, fix the bridges, and everyone deserves a damn job. Oh, P.S. Stop shooting unarmed Black men for no reason, put the tanks away, actually protect and serve, and while you're at it, dismantle the prison "industry."

Shut the fuck up.

(figures from last year- see how much they've changed in a few months below)

http://costofwar.com

The biggest ripoff in history

[sabrina 1]

371. Lame tactics. All they are doing is driving people away. I wonder if that is the intention

because no one can actually think that these kinds of attacks on voters they NEED is a good idea.