George Takei calls Clarence Thomas a "Clown in Blackface"

[Flying Squirrel]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026934481

29 votes, 1 pass | Time left: Unlimited
	Over the top, Mr. Takei.
	14 (48%)
	Righteous, dude!
	12 (41%)
	Meh
	3 (10%)
	1 DU member did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

1. Not cool.

[backscatter712]

2. He's gonna get a lot of shit for it.

Though I have to say it. He's absolutely right.

We're talking about a man who's married to a white woman, thanks to Loving v. Virginia. He then turned around and voted as a SCOTUS justice to deny the right to marry to the LGBT community.

Because of all the people that put themselves at risk, got savagely attacked, beaten and killed, or unjustly jailed and imprisoned in the fight to bring segregation to an end, Clarence Thomas is able to vote. Thanks to the Civil Rights movement, Clarence Thomas was able to go to law school, become an attorney, then become a judge, then work his way up to where he is now, sitting on the highest court in the nation.

And then he turns around and votes to gut the Voting Rights Act, and to strike down Affirmative Action.

Yes, I'd say that "clown in blackface" describes Clarence Thomas perfectly. Sorry if that offends.

Didn't Samuel L. Jackson play Clarence Thomas in Django Unchained?

[joshcryer]

3. It's on the edge, but his passion lets it slide for me.

He's obviously visibly upset when he says it. Emotions got the best of him. I think he'll apologize eventually. But I don't think he will apologize right away when the ones demanding the apology are the right wing for the most part.

[backscatter712]

5. Oh, Takei shouldn't apologize to the breitheads.

All they want is the apology for the purpose of putting him through ritual humiliation, and George shouldn't give those scumbags the satisfaction.

Never apologize to the enemy.

[joshcryer]

10. Yep.

Suddenly the right wing is concerned about racism.

[asturias31]

81. So, let me understand...

Racism is defined not by whether something can be reasonably seen as offensive by the targeted group - but by who says it (one of ours or one of theirs?) and who is targeted (one of theirs or one of ours).

Hypocrisy.

I vote no.

[craigmatic]

89. it's not only going to be right wingers. It'll be black people too because he offended me.

[merrily]

4. Takei has suffered unimaginable pain throughout his life. However, Thomas's dissent was Thomas

being Thomas, not Thomas being an African American. And, Thomas was born with that color face. So, it's not blackface, which has such a hurtful history.

The sad irony is that Takei took Thomas to task for being a member of a minority who was denying equal rights to members of another minority, despite Loving v. Virginia. And now, Takei's words have done something similar, though Takei's words are not on a plane with words in a carefully crafted Supreme Court dissent.

Were Takei's words over the top? Yes, WAY over. Can I forgive someone speaking from so many years of personal pain of his own? Yes.

[yuiyoshida]

64. I agree

totally.

[merrily]

65. Pleased to know that. Thank you.

[yuiyoshida]

67. yw

[asturias31]

82. Thanks. That's nice

I agree that passionate people, and wounded people, and off-the-cuff people, sometimes say stuff that's over the top. And don't deserve to be keel-hauled.

I would like to see that level of human understanding extended to people of all orientations and races and political parties. If a gay Star Trek Democrat can be forgiven for offending, please rememberr that the next time a white Christian, with a a history of being a decent person, says the same thing about Obama.

Political lynchings should stop.

[merrily]

85. You're welcome but there is no comparison whatever between Takei and

a white Christian, for the reasons stated in my post. And it's not only about Obama or Thomas or Takei. All bigotry is ugly and toxic, including to the bigot, and especially when Jesus or God or the Bible or any religion is cited as the excuse for it.

[asturias31]

90. A white person is a person

And a Christian is a person.

And Takei is a person.

And it is funny to hear you say there can never be a comparison between Takei and a white Christian.

Really?

Some white Christians are gay. And Takei may be Christian for all I know. All people are capable of the same emotions and outbursts and stupid shit and human wackiness and regrettable stuff they want to take back a minute later. That doesn't differentiate by skin color or religion or orientation.

Please think about it.

[madville]

6. Racist

Hate his politics but don't bring race into it

[Cheese Sandwich]

7. He shouldn't have said that. But if it snaps the stupid out of Clarence Thomas it might be worth it.

[Juicy_Bellows]

9. This is his words - right here - thanks for posting.

I do not see it as a racist comment, we know the speaker. Takei is right on the money.

A race is not monolithic - Clarence is an asshole - clown in blackface would be shitty to say to any regular black person, but this Thomas guy is a world class asshole.

I adore me some Takei.

IF THE SHOE FITS!

[Drunken Irishman]

14. I think it undermines his legitimate argument.

Just call him a clown in a robe.

[SusanCalvin]

62. THIS! ^^^^^^ nt.

[craigmatic]

84. All his words will do is piss off potential allies. Hell I'm black and pissed and I hate thomas.

[former9thward]

8. The left is using the same exact same racial insults against Thomas

as the right used against Justice Thurgood Marshall. The same exact words. It is disgusting. Senator Robert Byrd used to brag he voted against both AA nominees to the Supreme Court.

[merrily]

78. Specifically, what do you mean by "the left" and, as you know, it's not a monolith.

[former9thward]

80. Well everyone has their own definition.

Mine is anyone to the left of Clinton on most issues. (Which does not include me on at least one --the 2nd amendment).

[olddots]

11. George has every right in the world to call out Thomas

ever heard of Anita Hill ?

[Drunken Irishman]

13. He has every right to call him out - but leave race out of it.

[Drunken Irishman]

12. It's racist.

He needs to apologize.

[Quackers]

15. I like George Takei but he was wrong to say that.

Just as I wouldn't want someone to say that about President Obama. The color of their skin should not be used as an insult!

[Marr]

16. He was, himself, in a Japanese internment camp.

When Clarence Thomas says the government is incapable of taking away someone's dignity, I think someone like George Takei deserves a very wide berth in his/her response.

[Flying Squirrel]

17. It's my opinion

That it should not depend on one's background. Either it's appropriate or it's not, regardless of who says it. I don't think it was cool, I love Takei and I would hate Thomas if I thought it would help anything or be worth the energy -- but I think Takei should apologize to the black community (and perhaps even individually to someone as loathsome as Thomas).

[Marengo]

24. Interned because of his race. He should know better.

[Kalidurga]

18. That was a really mean thing to say about clowns.

[Flying Squirrel]

19. Okay you have a point there ;)

But all joking aside, "in blackface" added a racial undertone that was unnecessary and hurtful IMO. I do hope he will apologize.

[Kalidurga]

20. I would rather he offer an explanation.

Apologies are often hollow and this is a good opportunity to give people some historic background on what gay people have gone through, what he went through because of racism, and how Thomas himself has hurt the black community.

[Katashi_itto]

21. All in All, I think George Takei was being pretty nice about Thomas.

[gollygee]

22. No fan of Clarence Thomas

but "clown" would have done it.

[Sunlei]

23. the role is typically comedic but only the Justice knows the makeup is permanent

[B2G]

25. Either it's OK to use racial slurs, or it's not.

End of story.

[ileus]

26. I think we can all agree that it's sincere, not bigoted when our side does it.

See we're better than they are...Don't be scared to tell the truth.

[B2G]

27. Bullshit. Look at the poll.

We all don't agree.

[hunter]

28. OMFG. It's the language police.

Takei was righteously angry and he called Thomas what he is.

Do I detect some racism and homophobia directed against Takei here?

I think I do.

Oh noes! Those people should be polite or they hurt their cause...

FUCK THAT bullshit.

Thomas is a big fat turd stinking up our Supreme Court.

Who the hell cares what color clown makeup he wears to disguise his turdishness?

[B2G]

29. What the hell are you talking about?

It's racist and homophobic to disagree with the language a gay Asian man uses?

What else does he get a pass on by virtue of his race and sexual orientation?

[hunter]

32. So you think Takei's language exposes him as a racist?

Here, I'll show you some Hollywood "blackface" racism:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Conqueror_%28film%29

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049092

Context in language matters, who is speaking the words matters.

[Marengo]

30. Criticizing Takai's usage of "blackface" is homophobic?

In that case, is criticizing James David Manning's anti-gay rhetoric racist?

[hunter]

34. I'm trying to figure out how you came up with that comparison, but I got nothing...

[B2G]

36. Probably from your post.

"Do I detect some racism and homophobia directed against Takei here?

I think I do."

[Marengo]

68. Nice try but yeah, you do have nothing...as in your attempt to equate criticism of Takai's...

usage of ''blackface" as homophobic.

[hunter]

71. Love your Marine tag.

But now I'm even more befuddled by your posts.

The warriors in my family tend to end up as medics and engineers, them that ain't Conscientious Objectors to begin with. Even those few who sought glorious battle.

So maybe I am clueless about these matters...



I fly my rainbow flag here because marriage is a human right.

Otherwise, I'm a very dangerous fellow when I don't know what I'm doing. That's a line I stole from Dr. Who.

Commander Sharrel: We function logically.

Doctor Who: My condolences to you.

http://www.tombakerofficial.com/portfolio-item/destiny-of-the-daleks

[Nuclear Unicorn]

33. If Mr. Takei is being racist he has no cause.

[hunter]

39. I assure you, Takei knows racism...

My grandfather got beat up by the cops for protesting the internment of his Japanese neighbors.

Racism against the Japanese and Chinese has a long sordid history in California.

Dr. Seuss himself was a racist:



https://thebluereview.org/return-to-minidoka

Dr. Seuss did supposedly outgrow that racism, even though he moved to all-white La Jolla, California after the war, a notorious "sundown town."

California had plenty of "Sundown Towns," and still does, even today, with an even wider variety of people to hate than the Black & White U.S. south.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

40. Then Mr. Takei should know better. It doesn't excuse his racism. It makes him no better than

anyone who would use the n-word to insult.

[hunter]

42. I guess it's progress to recognize "bad" words and refrain from saying them...

... but to recognize the underlying racism or homophobia in one's own self takes a little more effort.

The "I have black friends" or "I have gay friends" vibe is very strong in some people.

Sure, there are plenty of gay racists, but I doubt Takei is one of them.

There are plenty of black homophobes too.

"Mr. Takei should know better."

Seriously???

What else "should" he know? How else "should" he behave?

[backscatter712]

49. Ah, obviously, one angry remark makes George Takei equivalent to a Klan member.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

57. The only reason Mr. Takei is being given a pass/applause is because

he is in the faction favored by those excusing/applauding his remarks.

[hunter]

69. I hate guns and automobiles too, but you know that...

...even though I have some natural and practiced talents with both.

I've never been in a situation where me holding a gun would improve the outcome. And I've been in some very rough situations.

Guns are tools that escalate the ugly. Always better to use your brain to talk people down, or at the very least, if you are able to run away, be wearing shoes you can run in.

From middle school until I quit high school the bullies called me "queerbait" and frequently beat me bloody.

I grew up in a town that was affluent and white, and kept that way by racists. The police considered harassment of the "others," the non-white people, the LGBT people, to be a sport. Real estate agents and lenders were cold to the "others," even after that sort of discrimination was made illegal.

My hometown is still a little creepy. I wonder about those who stayed... none of my family did, nor my wife's family.

My parents are artists and really couldn't be too picky about where they lived, they followed the paying jobs. These days they are retired and live in a wild place, drinking and bathing in the water that falls on their roof, gardening, and buying much of their food from local farmers.

I haven't lived in "white, straight, "good" Christian community my adult life and I won't ever go back.

If you think Mr. Takei is racist, just say so.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

70. I have no idea what all that has to do with Mr. Takei's racist comment.

[hunter]

74. Of course you don't. I'll make it simple.

In Takei's California being Japanese was worse than Black, and gay was worse even lower than that.

Black was black in U.S.A. culture, so long as "colored" people "knew their place," but Takei's family were a "yellow menace" and gay was an abomination that could get you killed.



http://6thfloor.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/02/thing-three-dr-seuss-rap-and-racism

Takei knows racism, he knows dignity, and he also knows this pile of shit stinking up our Supreme Court.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

79. Since bigoty is so bad it's best to not participate in it. nt

[Marengo]

73. You and I have had a similar experience...

As a openly bisexual teenager in rural Ohio in the early 80's, I was frequently verbally abused, threatened in some way almost daily, and occasional physically attacked in the public school I was attending. No one bothered to do much of anything about it. I don't recall at any time being able to talk any of those cretins down. Eventually I learned to reply in their "language" and it worked. It was a hard, painful strategy, but with time was able to make it known it was costly to try to harm me physically.

To this day, I have never understood what about my sex preferences was so threatening to so many.

[Evergreen Emerald]

31. He was making a point--responding in kind

He would likely agree that his statement was racist. He was making a statement equivalent to what Thomas said...to make a point.

[SusanCalvin]

63. OK, now you've got my attention.

I'll have to look at the whole thing to see what the context was. On the surface, I think "clown" or "clown in a robe" would have done, but now I will look at it further.

Interesting. The context comes *after* rather than before in the clip on DU.

George appears to be saying that Thomas's color is only skin deep (well, it is, for anybody, but hopefully you can figure out what I am trying to say) and that Thomas isn't really on the side of persons of color. That part is the truth.

I think it could have been better expressed, but George was obviously very, very angry. If I had a chance to talk about Thomas on camera, I'd be very, very angry too.

[Jefferson23]

35. He is wrong to go there. I do not understand how he gets there because he is angry.

His anger has or should have nothing to do with his focus on race. I find it
disgusting although Thomas is a horrendous justice on the court and his opinions
are twisted..it's ok to say, a clown in blackface? No.

[Human101948]

37. Well, yes, it is okay...

I contacted the Ringling Brothers Clown College and they said they have no objection to the Amos and Andy reference.

[bigwillq]

38. Meh. Somebody's always offended by something.

Sometimes the truth is offensive.

[truebluegreen]

41. Do we have to poll about everything?

[Starry Messenger]

43. You should start a poll about that.

[Orrex]

44. Finally! A funny poll-ish joke!

[Starry Messenger]

45. How many polls does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

a) all of the above

b) only two, but they must be very small to fit in the lightbulb

c) Fuck you, light!

[Orrex]

47. I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot poll

And here's such a poll, for reference:

Which kind of foot do you prefer?
[font color="white"]XXX[/font]a) Hoof
[font color="white"]XXX[/font]b) Pseudopod
[font color="white"]XXX[/font]c) Dactylic
[font color="white"]XXX[/font]d) Anapestic
[font color="white"]XXX[/font]e) Trochaic
[font color="white"]XXX[/font]f) Polydactylic
[font color="white"]XXX[/font]g) Pyrrhic
[font color="white"]XXX[/font]h) Cretic
[font color="white"]XXX[/font]i) Ungulate
[font color="white"]XXX[/font]j) Iambic

[Dr. Strange]

48. I was once visited by Red Grange, Walter Payton, and Mike Ditka.

They kept asking me political questions. But I didn't answer, because I've been a little scared of poller Bears.

[OriginalGeek]

56. All this pollyamory needs to stop.

[jberryhill]

77. Maybe it will if you ask poll lightly

[OriginalGeek]

92. Unfortunately

I tend to lean more towards pollemic...

[truebluegreen]

61. Good idea.

[Lancero]

46. Homophobia doesn't justify racism.

[RedCappedBandit]

50. He damages the left's credibility using that language.

He had a salient point and ruined it with hateful words.

[hunter]

59. I don't feel damaged at all.

And I'm about as left as anyone can be.

Any "credibility" I have with right wing clowns is accidental, I assure you.

I only pay attention to reasonable people.

I do not consider right wing clowns who press their fingers in their ears and scream gibberish when confronted by realities they must deny in order to preserve their fantastical ideologies, I do not consider these "reasonable people."

As The Blue Flower states below, Blackface is someone pretending to be black.

Thomas was placed in his comfy-chair and now denies all the bloody history of the civil rights movements that made his career possible.

I honestly think Thomas was the right wing's "fuck you" to the civil rights movement and Thurgood Marshall.

Thomas, the a venal sexist idiot masturbating to Coke can porn, just short of that infamous judge who'd sit on the bench with a vibrator up his ass as he scolded hookers. The right knew who he was. Many good people told them who he was.

If Thomas was a fat green toad wearing black make-up claiming to be a Disney prince, he'd still be just another creepy clown and a gibberish spewing asshole.

Justice Roberts is a creepy right wing white-face wearing Catholic clown. I guess I can say that without any dissent as a blue-eyed white Catholic heretic.

[samsingh]

51. clarence thomas is a disgusting lowlife turncoat - in my opinion

no name, regardless of how vile, can match the ugly vileness in Thomas.

go George!!

[KeepItReal]

55. He can't be a turncoat if you never assumed he was with you.

Clarence Thomas was always a disgrace to that Supreme Court seat.

Especially coming after a brother like Justice Thurgood Marshall.

In truth he was a GOP stroke of genius. An unqualified empty suit who parrots right wing ideology and just happens to be Black.

[samsingh]

58. he's a turncoat to justice

[samsingh]

52. clarence thomas should have a google search associated with it.

it would have to bring up a vile definition.

I'm not eloquent enough to describe how vile and disgusting Clarence Thomas is - but that name will be historical like benedict Arnold is.

[The Blue Flower]

53. Blackface is someone pretending to be black

In that sense, I think it was an accurate statement.

[SusanCalvin]

66. That's the conclusion I finally came to

and I think it's the way George meant it. But "blackface" is a very loaded word.

[PragmaticLiberal]

75. Yeah, I thought it was obvious what George was saying.

To quote Sirius XM host Joe Madison: "Just because someone's your color doesn't mean they're your brother".

That's pretty much always been my view of Justice Thomas.

[backscatter712]

72. Yep, describes Clarence Thomas perfectly.

Black on the surface, Klan underneath.

[Quixote1818]

87. The problem is, most people won't get this

I don't think it was meant to be racist in the slightest and I think he meant it in a very nuanced way as you have pointed out, but I cringed when he used the term "Black Face" because I knew all hell would break lose. The US just isn't sophisticated enough to understand where the term derives from or to take the time to find out.

[craigmatic]

88. No it's not. There is no one way to be black. Here I am a black leftist and you guys have me

defending that asshole thomas. It's no wonder many blacks assume most whites are racist.

[Dr. Strange]

91. Wait a minute.

Are you suggesting that not all black people think the same?

Inconceivable!

[historylovr]

54. I love George, but that was over the top.

Clarence Thomas is a horrible person who doesn't deserve to sit on the bench, much less in Thurgood Marshall's place. Confirming him was a travesty. Especially after Dr. Hill's testimony. But, George should have stopped at "clown."

[SusanCalvin]

60. I adore Mr. Takei, but

I feel he should have just left it at "clown." Thomas would be a clown in any color.

[edbermac]

76. Clown - yes, blackface - over the line.

Come on George, you're better than that.

[craigmatic]

83. He's using black face wrong also you can not like somebody without bringing race into it. This just

makes me think takei is probably racist even though he had alito, scalia to pick on too. This is why coalitions on the left don't last long. He already won his case he could just sit back and enjoy it instead of still talking and risk pissing off potential allies although he probably thinks he doesn't need them anymore. Also just the fact that there are 43 who agree with takei shows just why many black people don't vote. I mean how can you justify racism? At least the republicans are open with theirs.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

86. Racist slurs are not OK just because the person using them is a liberal.

Horrific but unsurprising that so many DUers don't get this.