Facebook’s Eduardo Saverin Likely BARRED FROM RE-ENTERING U.S

[Segami]

“...He’s fucked,” said an immigration lawyer based in Los Angeles. “He must have gotten horrendous advice....”




" Facebook co-founder Eduardo Saverin’s decision to renounce his U.S. citizenship just in time to avoid a large tax payment essentially means he will not be able to re-enter the United States again, immigration experts tell TPM.



“There’s a specific provision of immigration law that says that a former citizen who officially renounces citizenship, and is determined to have renounced it for the purpose of avoiding taxation, is excludable,” said Crystal Williams, executive director of the American Immigration Lawyers Association. “So he would not be able to return to the United States if he’s found to have renounced for tax purposes.” The provision of law isn’t usually enforced, added Williams, “however, this guy is so high profile that this is probably going to be the test case.”



Saverin’s only path back to living in the U.S., experts contend, would involve persuading the authorities that his decision was not about avoiding taxes — an argument the 30-year-old billionaire is apparently angling to make. “This had nothing to do with taxes,” Saverin told the New York Times. “I was born in Brazil, I was an American citizen for about 10 years. I thought of myself as a global citizen.”



Two immigration lawyers said his explanation hardly passes the laugh test. Saverin’s move was timed to the initial public offering of shares of Facebook stock. The valuation of the Facebook IPO explodes Saverin stake in the social media company to some $3 billion, on which avoiding taxes could save him at least tens — if not hundreds — of millions of dollars. Nor does it help his case that he relocated to Singapore, which levies no taxes on those earnings.



Democratic senators mobilized Thursday to crack down on Saverin and other tax dodgers.



cont'

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/05/facebook-eduardo-saverin-ipo-citizenship-singapore-immigration.php?ref=fpnewsfeed

.

[FSogol]

1. I guess that's one less vote for Romney this Fall.

[dballance]

2. Like he frigging cares

He's been living in Singapore and he can go see any broadway play in London.

[Romulox]

8. Pssst, Inspector Clousaeu...his business is resident in the United States. nt

[dairydog91]

14. And?

Facebook is a global business. Also, you don't need to enter the country in order to hold stocks there.

[Romulox]

15. That *may* have some bearing on his desire to be present in the United States.

It may not. But it's not "naive" to assume that he may have business here

[dairydog91]

19. Except, through the wonders of the internet and telephone, one does not need to enter...

...In order to conduct business. Particularly internet-development business. He may experience some tug of war over any taxation on business done as a foreign national in the US, but I imagine he can hire a lawyer.

[Romulox]

22. And yet Mr. Saverin hasn't conducted his business via teleconference from Singapore, up to now.

Singapore is a lovely place, I'm sure. It has not a whit to do with the likelihood that Mr. Saverin will undoubtedly find it advantageous, at some point, to be present in the US, merely as evidenced by his past behavior.

If you'll look downthread, my guess is that he'll have zero problem re-entering the US when he should so desire.

[dairydog91]

24. You are probably correct in saying that Saverin will have little trouble reentering the US.

He can probably do so as a tourist, though he's capped to staying for a couple weeks at a time. Alternately, basically anything that could be done in the US could also be done in London. Or, considering his budget, in a yacht moored just outside US territorial waters.

[leftynyc]

39. Any country that uses flogging

as punishment for anything is a shithole.

[MattSh]

28. Which business?

Facebook? He doesn't work there anymore. Hasn't worked there in quite a few years, and has living in Singapore since 2009.

[Romulox]

30. OK. I don't know the guy's bio. Still, it's silly to act outraged that he *might* wish to return

[GoneOffShore]

53. Singapore - Disney Land with the death penalty

as per William Gibson.

[ProfessionalLeftist]

3. If he thought of himself as a "global citizen" then...

...there was no reason for him to renounce his US citizenship, was there? What a load of horse shit.

[TahitiNut]

4. "America: Love It or Leave It"

The irony is enormous.

[xtraxritical]

34. Just another perfect example of greedy rich 1% bastards that refuse to pay taxes to

support the country that gave them the "leg-up". Fuck the asshole.

[efhmc]

40. This is why it makes me so mad. Use our resources and then leave without giving back.

[naaman fletcher]

48. except, this is not true, the whole story is made up by politicians and the news

When you renounce all of your unrealized gains are immediatley realized and taxable. He will pay the taxes.

He could even get hurt. Should facebook go down on the IPO, he will pay taxes on "realized" gains that he never even realized.

[Romulox]

5. The chances of this guy being barred from re-entry are NIL. It just takes a few thousand $ to get

the attention of our most powerful politicians.

So this story is a fantasy meant to sooth frayed nerves.

[mainer]

6. Barred even as a tourist or business traveler?

What he's doing is legal. Does this make him excludable for a visa?

[pacalo]

10. The article said that he could apply for a visa but he would first have to admit he renounced his

citizenship for the purposes of tax evasion. Even if he were to confess, the visa wouldn't necessarily be granted.

[lonestarnot]

11. Shouldn't even be allowed to receive a fucking picture.

[Romulox]

16. Zero chance. nt

[lonestarnot]

9. Good! And the rest of the asswipes intentionally avoiding paying US taxes they owe should receive

more of the same!

[abelenkpe]

12. Good. Nt

[sinkingfeeling]

13. Boo-hoo. If he doesn't want to pay US taxes on his billions then he can stay out.

[xtraxritical]

35. The Facebook IPO does not enrich him personally until he is paid salary or sells his personal stock.

I don't see how they say he is avoiding taxes when at this point he has no personal tax liability. Any CPA tax accountants here?

[spooky3]

42. The exit tax is assessed on unrealized gains as of the day before

the citizenship is renounced. So if the market value of the shares is X on that date, but a week (month, year, whatever) later goes up to 2X, for example, the exit tax does not include those additional gains.

[sinkingfeeling]

45. Excuse me, but as of March 2012 (prior to IPO), his net worth was $2 billion.

http://www.therichest.org/business/eduardo-saverin-net-worth/

[alcibiades_mystery]

17. Ta-ta, Tuttle

Have a nice fucking life with your billions in a foreign land.

Fuck you very much.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

18. Apparently he skimped on competent legal advice as well.

Kinda takes the "it ain't what you make, it's what you keep" axiom to a self-destructive extreme.

Oh well, I think my husband and I are the only 20-somethings NOT on FB and we're OK with that.

[denverbill]

20. Good. He's a traitor in my book.

I say he can only stay if he pays his taxes in full.

[dairydog91]

23. He already "paid his taxes" in full. That's what the exit tax does.

He presumably already paid taxes on any ordinary income like a regular taxpayer. Like all taxpayers, he also did not pay taxes on gains on his capital assets before he sold them (For the same reason that when your house appreciates $25,000 in value, you don't have a taxable gain until you sell the house). Upon exit, he will be treated as if he sold all his capital assets. Any gain he realizes is subject to the capital gains tax. After the exit tax is done, all of his assets will have been through the tax mill, probably much faster than if he'd stayed in the US.

Also, the Constitution defines "treason" as "levying war on the United States" or "adhering to its enemies." Probably to prevent the classical style of government in which anything someone does that politicians don't like is labeled "treason". Did Saverin declare war on the US? Did we launch a war on Singapore without my knowing it?

[spooky3]

38. Several criticisms are wrong here.

Last edited Thu May 17, 2012, 01:57 PM - Edit history (1)

1) As the OP article states, the concern is the upcoming IPO and how it will likely generate taxable gains, and that if he were a citizen he would be liable for taxes, not with past behavior. If the tax scenario were to play out in the future as you described, and there are no tax consequences, why would he renounce citizenship at this time?

2) You don't have a taxable gain when you sell a house that has increased in value by only $25K. Your sales costs will likely eat up most or all of that, and the first $250K of net gain is excludable in any event ($500K if you are part of a married couple) if you meet the other rules. This mistake about basic tax law makes me even more likely to doubt your claim addressed in #1.

3) According to the online Merriam-Webster dictionary, the first definition of "traitor" does not include commission of treason. Your equating the terms misstates denverbill's concern, as he didn't accuse anyone of waging war.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/traitor

But your concern is duly noted.

[denverbill]

46. Apparently, you completely missed the point of what this libertarian douchebag is doing.

He is renouncing his US citizenship to save millions of dollars on taxes when Facebook goes public.

Frankly, I don't know how you can do anything more anti-American than renounce your citizenship. This little dipshit would probably be begging for food in some Brazilian slum if not for the luck of having American citizenship. Instead, he gets a miracle ticket to wealth thanks to the opportunities and education America gave him. And now, when he is about to get his big payoff, he tells America to fuck off to save a tiny fraction of the $3 billion he's lucked into.

You can be a traitor without committing treason, and in my book, tax cheats are traitors. Renouncing your citizenship also qualifies. And renouncing your citizenship to cheat your country out of taxes just makes you doubly a traitor.

I hope this guy isn't married because he'd be the type who would dump the wife who worked 2 jobs to put him through school as soon as he made it big.

Feel free to defend him though. I'm sure he appreciates your concern. Maybe you can get Mitt Romney to defend him as well. It would be most appropriate.

[Spider Jerusalem]

49. Wow, xenophobic much?

"probably be begging for food in some Brazilian slum"? Good god. You do realise he's only an American citizen in the first place because his (rich) parents moved to the US when he was a kid, yes? Minor children of persons taking on US citizenship after fulfilling the residency requirement are automatically granted citizenship themselves; the odds are pretty good he didn't have any say in whether or not he became a citizen, and may not have done if he had.

[warrior1]

21. good

don't the let the door hit ya where mother nature split you

[Baitball Blogger]

25. "global citizen."

Interesting.

[naaman fletcher]

26. THIS IS ALL A BS STORY

When you renounce your citizenship, all of your unrealized gains become realized.

So, what is the value of his facebook stock?

That is easy! There is an IPO coming up.

This is a non-story. he will pay his taxes.

[xtraxritical]

36. Right, see my #35 above.

[spooky3]

41. not quite right

The unrealized gain is assessed as of the date of renunciation, not as of the date of the later IPO.

The value of his holding will likely skyrocket on the date of the IPO or later. He does not pay exit tax on that higher value. That's what people are concerned about.

[naaman fletcher]

47. Right

But how do you value the holding as of the date? The IPO a month later is as good as you can get.

As for any gains later, who cares? Let him live where he wants. I don't care.

[spooky3]

51. two separate issues

Re: How do you value the holding on any given date pre-IPO? Finance experts have standard ways of doing this (you can check some of them out on the interwebs). The IPO price a month later is NOT as good as you can get. In Facebook's case, they have already raised the expected offer price from $28 to $38 per share in just the past two weeks.

Re: Who cares? Understood that you don't care, but the point of the article in the OP and others on the interwebs was that certain other people DO care, including Dem. Congresspeople, if the point of renunciation was to avoid taxation. That doesn't mean that you have to agree with it, but the article isn't pointless BS.

[naaman fletcher]

52. I do this for a living

an IPO a month later is "as good as it gets" rather than fighting over valuation models. Can you suggest a better price of the fair market value for something that doesn't trade other than the price it traded at just two weeks later?

[spooky3]

56. Can you explain 1) why the Dem. Senators and others are getting bent out of shape

if they agreed that the IPO day valuation is the same as the renunciation date valuation and that Saverin will really accept an exit tax assessment based on the IPO value, and 2) why you had to ask me how an authority would set a pre-IPO value, if you do this for a living? Or do you really think that Saverin would simply accept the higher IPO value rather than pay a team of attorneys to fight it? I guess if you do, then there is no way to argue it, since that can't be determined or refuted at this time.

By the way, some sources on the web say that he may have renounced citizenship in September. That long time lapse might make it hard to prove that he was trying to avoid taxation, and for him to agree that the IPO date value is the same as the value in Sept.

[naaman fletcher]

67. well,

no one has "agreed" that is the date, but if anyone fights it, thats what it will be (or very close). It's impossible for Severin to claim the price is materially different from the IPO price. If he left in September, it's still very tough for him to claim it's much different. Maybe he could get like 2% less in valuation or something like that.

He has simply gotten shitty tax advice. There are endless fools giving bad tax advice.

the dem senators are, in the end, politicians. The reason they are upset is they knew the hysteria it would create, which would gain them popularity and cotes.

I asked you as a rhetorical exercise. How would you value something that is not tradeable? Well you look to various models and you fight over them with the IRS.

If something is tradeable, you throw away the models. For example, if he owned apple stock, you would just value it on the close of the day he renounced. So, Facebook is not tradeable the day he renounced, but it is tradeable very, very close to the day he renounced. So the valuation will be the IPO price, or something very very close.

He got shitty tax advice, and the media and politicians have blown this way out of proportion.

[iamthebandfanman]

27. lol

i was just talking to my brother the other day about this , after i saw the original article..

"so, when are they going to go pick his ass up n throw him out ya think?", i said..

my brother said "never" , and i tended to agree...

guess he and I were both wrong!!

[former9thward]

33. What do you mean "throw him out"?

He has not lived in the U.S. for years.

[Nye Bevan]

29. Ha ha. No Olive Garden for him (nt)

[DiverDave]

31. The way he was portrayed in the movie

had me thinking he got screwed ( he did IMO).
But for him to do something like this, just shows what a shallow weak person he is.

My god, the tax rates on his gains are so fucking low already6, and the little greedy whiner wants MORE??

Up yours eddy, take your $$ and choke on it.

[Odin2005]

32. he looks like a vampire.

[ScreamingMeemie]

50. You beat me to it!

That's the first thought I had. That picture is gross.

[Trillo]

37. Shell game.

It doesn't matter if he comes or goes. He's got his money, and he's got his shares, presumably preferred. He can use his agents to conduct any needed U.S. business. One of his agents goes by the name of Facebook.

[ellie]

43. Sayonara asshole!

[librechik]

44. Fuck off, Saverin you greedy traitor!

really!

[avebury]

54. I have to tell you, I just don't see what the big deal is and the amount of outrage expressed here

about this guy renouncing his US citizenship and living somewhere else in the world.

When you see the direction this country is going in and the efforts by the 1%, Republicans and Tea Part to turn in the 99% into Serfs I don't blame anyone for packing up and leaving the US and renouncing the citizenship. And to call someone that renounces their citizenship a traitor is totally absurd.

Over 200 years ago people started to immigrate to the US because of what was taking place in their countrys of origin. People were looking for a better life. Frankly, the way the 1% are determined to prevent the 99% from rising up makes it time for the young to look around to see where they can move to achieve the dreams that their ancestors achieved because they certainly won't achieve it here.

[mainer]

57. I don't get the anger, either.

People should be free to renounce their citizenship if they no longer feel allegiance to their country. The guy wasn't even born here, and was only a US citizen for 10 years.

[flamingdem]

58. The reason is that he OWES HIS FAIR SHARE

and got out of it

[avebury]

68. And how is that different from what

takes place in country all the time? Wouldn't it be more productive for people to focus their anger at people like the Koch brothers who routinely use their wealth to buy elected officials in order to control how our country is run? This guy is so small peanuts in comparison.

People are wasting their anger on the wrong person. Where is the anger about the 1% and the elected officials who enable their behavior to beat the masses into the ground? Where is the anger at state and local governments using homeland security funds to buy hardware that could just as easily be turned on the citizens if they dare to rise up and fight the status quo? People are just so short sighted.

[beac]

63. And if it wasn't for the US granting him and his parents asylum b/c

his was on a "rich kid kidnap list" back in Brazil he'd likely have been dead for most of the past 10 years. Nice way to re-pay the country that saved your miserable, selfish life.

[beac]

62. And I have to tell you that if you are honestly renouncing your citizenship b/c

you are concerned with the direction this country is going, you DO NOT choose SINGAPORE as your new country... a place where caning is imposed as punishment for many offenses and the death penalty applies to drug offenses (which are detected by mandatory random drug tests for citizens and tourists alike and include drugs in your system that you might have consumed legally before entering the country.) http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1017.html

Not to mention the legalized homophobic bigotry and the $500 fine for forgetting to flush a public toilet.

http://www.orientexpat.com/singapore/laws


Now if you are a rich asshole who hates paying taxes.... Singapore's lack of income tax is just the ticket for your new homeland. What a freakin' paradise it is!

[aquart]

55. He wants back in? NO!

Never. Not ever. We saved his fucking life and he doesn't think that's worth a few bucks?

[stevenleser]

59. I really dont think he is going to care much. He has $3 Billion and the entire rest of the world

to play around in. I love the US as much as anybody, but with $3 Billion and no need to work, let's face it, you can have a good life and a lot of fun in Europe, Asia, Australia and various places in Africa.

[Initech]

60. Should've paid your taxes!

Just furthers my theory that it takes a special breed of douchebag to be a tech billionaire.

[RobertEarl]

61. Face, meet Book

This slicker has just cost his company billions of dollars.

He will be sued until he is a deadbeat.

Pretty damn stupid to ruin his virtual book that is now going to turn around and smash him in the face.

GM is just the first to pull their ad $.

[Canuckistanian]

64. Oh right, NOW they're getting tough on tax evaders?

Hey, IRS and ICE guys, I know where's there's a TON of tax evaders - and they're making fun of you, right now...

[SidDithers]

65. Would you give up your citizenship for a couple hundred million dollars?...nt

Sid

[avebury]

69. Heck yeah and wouldn't

think twice about it. Ultra conservatives are fixated on turning this country into the Christian version of a middle eastern styled country. The 1% are well on their way to buying and owning this country (if they have not done so already). I just don't think that things will turn around in my lifetime. If I had that kind of money where I could live without financial woes I would definitely move somewhere else.

The US is no longer the big land of opportunity it once was and there is nothing wrong with people leaving for better opportunities.

[mainer]

70. To be a citizen of, say, New Zealand? EU?

A couple hundred million dollars and global citizenry in exchange for the right to live in a country run by tea partiers might tempt me.

[sabrina 1]

66. He's a billionaire, he will not have any problem getting into the US.

It's nice to speculate that maybe there are consequences for being a greedy, selfish scumbag, but in reality, money is GOD.

If he was a poor guy who had been abroad for a few years and found himself saddled with taxes he couldn't afford to pay, so thought giving up his citizenship might solve his problems, HE would not be allowed back in most likely. Who wants a poor schmuck with no money in the Land of the Free?

But this guy? He will be entertained in DC and in the Hamptons and Palm Beach and I have zero doubt he is already viewed as some kind of demi-god to many of those who have the power to make those decisions in this country.

Watch this story disappear before long. We will all move on and he will quietly go about his business here, and wherever else he wants to go.