Are the rich pissed off that education means people expect to be compensated for their own

[applegrove]

Last edited Mon Jul 13, 2015, 08:07 PM - Edit history (2)

productivity more completely? There was a time when you would start with a company, work your way up if you were good. But you would not be taking your experience and increased productivity to the open market. And the corporation would be the beneficiary of that lack of pay. Women too would be way overqualified for the jobs they were allowed to do. And they certainly didn't get the benefit in wages.

[onecaliberal]

1. Intriguing question. You make a few really good points.

[applegrove]

3. And the cost of student loans has gone up, while government

Last edited Mon Jul 13, 2015, 03:30 AM - Edit history (1)

help has gone down. And they don't want people to have degrees in the arts, as if any degree that doesn't directly offer increased productivity as stem degrees do, should not exist. And they want diploma mills plus online education to debase the profession that used to be professors. The GOP seemed really happy with the high unemployment rate during the great reccession which reduced going wages. I have no idea if it is all connected. But you have to wonder.

[Kalidurga]

2. I think they are mad that people are catching on to how bad income inequality is...

that the CEO makes 300 times what they make and sits in an air conditioned office while they sweat in the warehouse.

[Igel]

4. If that's true, though,

then it means that the shift from a single, long-standing career to a fragmented career where there's little loyalty between corporation and employer is something the corporations didn't want, something that was foisted upon them by the American worker.

In other words, it's been the employee who's been driving that change. I think that goes rather strongly against the usual narrative of corporate union-busting, moving to contract labor, outsourcing ... While I don't think those things were personal or related to morality in any way, I think that shift was driven by business responding to a lot of pressure on the economic system.

The fragmented, multiple careers model is something that was floated in the '70s, before the long-term-union-job model was thoroughly trashed, and was billed as a good thing. It was part of the post-industrial, flexible, quick-adjusting white-collar American economy that would be prosperous and nimble in the world economy. It's what Carter pushed.

I'd note that the next big "look how they're doing it" fad was, however, precisely the Japanese long-term-tenure model. It didn't matter. Policy makers continued with the horrible idea that whatever is, is right; whatever is is as it should be.

[applegrove]

5. I think it depends on whether the job market is an employees one or and employers. With the 2008

great recession, the employment was so high it benefitted employers. And the GOP kept it that way by refusing to allow keys ian spending programs on things that needed it like infrastructure. Certainly the GOP fight to destroy unions is to ensure employers get most of the benefits of productivity, and that employees in aggregate get less of any productivity gain.

Also not owing someone a job let's corporations be lean and mean. On the whole they try and keep productive employees and get rid of people who are not so much. Healthcare used to tie people to their jobs. Now Obama care allows people to leave for better wages/situation. Who knows... Maybe that is a main reason why the GOP keep trying to repeal Obama care. .... they had the system all ginned up to make sure they got the all the benefits of increased productivity.

[One_Life_To_Give]

6. They are Self Deluded about their own importance and self-worth.

The Rich believe in their own worth. That only their genius could have anticipated the savings/productivity gains of whatever their latest brainfart is. Usually it's only been tried 3 or 4 times in the last 25 years and woe be to anyone who points out how it wasn't so great the last couple times around. Within that group though there are a handful who truly are a few steps ahead of everyone else. Those visionaries are worth a fair bit. All of their wannabe clingers, not so much.

[lumberjack_jeff]

7. US workers are second only to Norweigians in productivity.

Chinese workers? Not even in the same time zone.

http://www.ibtimes.com/america-workers-are-more-productive-their-wages-are-flat-some-cases-lower-1393941

[applegrove]

8. Is that because china is still partly a very undeveloped rural economy.

Bet their productivity is growing in leaps and bounds.

[Recursion]

17. Somewhat, though "more productive" means "fewer jobs"

Productivity is mostly about infrastructure.

[Bettie]

10. Oh thank you!

You saved me looking it up.

I suspect that they are trying to keep people from getting an education and using these "trade deals" to deliver an extremely productive workforce for sweat shop wages.

[lumberjack_jeff]

11. The issue is greed, of course.

American workers create about $70k of wealth per worker. If Chinese workers produce $40k, they're far less productive.

What Jeb! wants isn't "productivity", but "corporate profit margin". A Chinese worker keeps only $10k of that $40k of productivity.

[Bettie]

13. Which is why, if they can stomp people down a little more

they will be so afraid of not having a job at all, that they will work for even less than the Chinese worker, creating even more profit.

Of course they also forget that workers at those wages won't be able to buy the stuff they sell, but hey, that's the next CEO's issue.

Greed is indeed what drives it all.

[meow2u3]

18. You just decoded THE neoliberal dog whistle

When repukes say productivity, they really mean padded corporate profit margins.

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!

[HereSince1628]

9. Yes, and so is the avg American. This is why people hate the concept of tenure

rather than limiting their hating to people who abuse their tenure.

[TheKentuckian]

12. I tend to think tenure hatred is more driven by straight up pettiness.

I believe the logic is pretty much "I ain't got not tenure so why The Hell should somebody I pay out of my taxes have it?!? That's bullshit!".
Odds are they also hated school and think teachers are (and should be, I guess) glorified babysitters.

As such, it is hard to get them out of the self perpetuating negativity loop except for of course the sigh inducing but tried and true first hand experience of a teacher making a difference near and dear to them.

A lot of people suck ass and will first instinct try to pull someone else down rather than build us all up, like crabs in a bucket and most of the rest of it is lipstick on one ugly ass pig, uncut pettiness.

[HereSince1628]

14. Yes, but the thing is -resonance- the message needn't be the same

it only needs to produce a harmonic that people recognize.

I invested a hundred fifty thousand just in opportunity costs to get a PHD, and tens of thousands more in direct costs...not much different than Lawyers, Dentists or General Practice MDs at the time...But, my investment got no where near the consideration that Lawyers, Dentists and GPs got.

It's easy for people to lay on hate to those things that they don't understand.

[Recursion]

15. Huh? The US is the #3 country by worker productivity

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_hour_worked

China is something like #90.

Where did you get the idea that Chinese labor is more productive than US labor?

[applegrove]

16. I just assumed. Will take that out.