Singapore, it seems, doesn't tax capital gains.

[Zalatix]

Anyone want to guess how long it'll be before this sinks Singapore, once the rich realize they can go there and live off the people without contributing a dime?

[dkf]

1. Spending money is just as good.

[Fumesucker]

2. The uber wealthy don't spend money..

Or at least they don't spend money in proportion to the amount of money they have, which is why when more and more money ends up in the hands of the uber wealthy the economy becomes constipated and slows down.

[Zalatix]

6. Agreed; and this fact should be glaringly obvious.

They wouldn't be billionaires if they spent their money. WTF. It just takes a little common sense to figure that one out.

[dkf]

7. I live in a state dependent on tourism.

I don't need for us to tax capital gains...I just want them spending a lot.

[Fumesucker]

10. What is better for your state?

One hundred ordinary middle class tourist families coming to your state or one billionaire tourist?

Because that is the choice you're making by leaving the money in the hands of the uber wealthy.

[Harmony Blue]

13. For Florida

having middle income families visit is a huge boost to our economy. Billionaires don't do much to help the local super markets or retail chains.

[dkf]

17. More people mean more resources used...water, electricity, gas, waste disposal...

But they spread around the funds better I imagine. Its a tradeoff.

[Fumesucker]

18. Every one of which resource providers makes a profit on the use..

It's not a tradeoff at all, if your state depends on tourism then what you want is lots of tourists.

One billionaire is only going to eat one meal at a time, no matter how fancy the meal might be, only occupy one luxury suite at a time, only see one sight at a time..

When the billionaires hoard great piles of money then that leaves less money for everyone else to "spread around" as you so aptly put it.

Billionaires suck at spreading money around, if they didn't suck at it they wouldn't be billionaires.

[Luminous Animal]

3. Singapore. Disneyland with a death penalty.

I don't think it will sink Singapore as long as they avoid starving the population but keep them under tight control. It is not a city I've ever wanted to visit, let alone live in.

Singapore is a relentlessly G-rated experience, micromanaged by a state that has the look and feel of a very large corporation. If IBM had ever bothered to actually possess a physical country, that country might have had a lot in common with Singapore. There's a certain white-shirted constraint, an absolute humorlessness in the way Singapore Ltd. operates; conformity here is the prime directive, and the fuzzier brands of creativity are in extremely short supply.

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/1.04/gibson.html

[Zalatix]

4. Mass starvation wouldn't mean squat to a Gov't like that.

They'd just buy drones from the U.S. and send them out to put down a rebellion.

Countries like that would be the first test bed for AUTOMATED mass put-downs.

[Odin2005]

11. Thier government is like something out of a cyberpunk novel.

[Selatius]

5. It's also a country that uses health savings accounts in place of universal health care.

You are mandated to pay into the accounts, and when you get sick, you use it. The only good news is that the government does provide matching funds up to a certain point. The bad news is prolonged unemployment or underemployment means your account does not grow and likely won't help you much when you get sick or get into an accident. Then, it's totally up to you or your family to cover the tab.

[mainer]

36. Lowest infant mortality rate in the world

just read the Wikipedia article on Singapore and found it has:

Excellent (subsidized) health care.

Extremely low unemployment rate.

14% of the population are millionaires.

Interesting place!

[HiPointDem]

8. singapore has a lot of interesting features like that. for example, it allows 16-year-olds to

legally prostitute themselves and has been accused of significant sex trafficking. Caning (being whipped with a switch) is used for discipline in the military, schools, and prisons -- apparently because the Lee family loves it so much. They're run Singapore since its independence (& I believe they're basically british compradors under the table).

according to some singaporean critics:

"The Lee Kuan Yew family owns the Republic of Singapore and every one in it! Examine the facts. The Lee Kuan Yew family owns the Republic of Singapore and every one in it! Examine the facts. In fact the entire country is the private family business of the Lee family."

http://singaporedissident.blogspot.com/2007/08/lee-kuan-yew-family-owns-republic-of.html

Oh, & I forgot to mention the pervasive surveillance of the entire population via intelligence operations.

60% of the economy is state-owned, with the Lees running a lot of the state sector, as well as a lot of the private sector in the form of their personal businesses. Biotech/pharma are the biggest industries. There's one (state-sponsored) union for workers and basically the entire workforce belongs to it. About 1/3 of the workforce is foreign.

I've never been there but it sounds like a very creepy place. I have a winger-cum-fascist acquaintance who thinks it great because it's very modern, clean (sterile) and polite (servile). This person's ambition was to get rich from the cradle and he's achieved it to a certain degree. Selling large properties to rich people. Anything he likes I know I would hate.

I think creepy singapore and its "friendly business climate" are one of the possible futures.

[Zalatix]

9. Jeepers creepers. It sounds like a corporate state hiding behind a socialist mask.

[Harmony Blue]

14. It is indeed a corporate state with a socialist mask

but the twist is that it is also very diverse in religious denominations.

[Odin2005]

12. Like I said above, it's like something out of a cyberpunk novel.

[FarCenter]

15. Quite a few countries do not tax capital gains

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gains_tax

[mainer]

16. It's a tightly controlled corporate country -- where apparently no one starves

And everyone is offered an excellent education.

[badtoworse]

19. They don't have a problem with graffiti either.

[hifiguy]

20. Remember, Singapore is not so much a nation as a city-state.

Only a little over 5 million population. It is sort of an Asian version of Switzerland only much smaller and much more authoritarian.

Viz:

Singapore had been a part of various local empires since it was first inhabited in the second century AD. Modern Singapore was founded as a trading post of the East India Company by Sir Stamford Raffles in 1819 with permission from the Sultanate of Johor. The British obtained full sovereignty over the island in 1824 and Singapore became one of the British Straits Settlements in 1826. Singapore was occupied by the Japanese in World War II and reverted to British rule after the war. It became internally self-governing in 1959. Singapore united with other former British territories to form Malaysia in 1963 and became a fully independent state two years later after separation from Malaysia. Since then it has had a massive increase in wealth, and is one of the Four Asian Tigers. The economy depends heavily on the industry and service sectors. Singapore is a world leader in several areas: It is the world's fourth-leading financial centre, the world's second-biggest casino gambling market, and the world's third-largest oil refining centre. The port of Singapore is one of the five busiest ports in the world, most notable for being the busiest transshipment port in the world. The country is home to more US dollar millionaire households per capita than any other country. The World Bank notes Singapore as the easiest place in the world to do business. The country has the world's third highest GDP PPP per capita of US$59,936, making Singapore one of the world's wealthiest countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore

[Swede]

21. They caned an American teenager for vandalism awhile ago.

There was a football player,too,that was there with his sick wife,that was sentenced to caning.

[badtoworse]

22. The teenager deserved what he got

I'm not familiar with the football players case.

[Swede]

23. No one deserves caning. (graphic video)

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3c9_1304013159

[badtoworse]

24. Whatever that guy did, I'll bet he doesn't do it again...

...and there's something to be said for that. Recidivism is a problem that is likely non-existant in Singapore.

IRC, the teenager (Michael Fay) got 4 strokes for spray painting cars. It would be great if we could do that to the vandals who spray graffiti on NYC's subways, overpasses and highway signs. The problem would be solved overnight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_P._Fay

[Swede]

26. Maybe we should execute them?

They'll never do it again.

[badtoworse]

28. There are crimes for which that is the appropriate punishment,,,,

...but graffiti is not one of them. In any cse, I stand by my opinion on Fay's case.

[EOTE]

27. "Whatever the guy did..."

So, you don't even know what the guy did, but you have no problem with it. Not only that, but you want to bring caning HERE. Kind of sick, if you ask me. If only we had an island somewhere where we could send all the world's psychopaths.

[badtoworse]

29. I didn't offer an opinion on whether the punishment was appropriate

I only said that whatever the crime was, it was unlikely to happen again. Do you disagree?

BTW, from the Wiki article: "The embassy of Singapore to the United States said it received "a flood of letters" from Americans strongly supporting Fay's punishment, and some polls showed a majority of Americans favored it.[18]"

[EOTE]

31. What on earth does that have to do with anything?

At best it's a callous comment, at worst it's a sickening appeal to authority and brutalization. As the poster above mentioned, you could say the same thing if they executed him. And what the majority of americans favor is another pretty stupid appeal to authority. It's likely that majority of americans favored Bush in 2004, you're really going to use that as an argument?

[badtoworse]

34. I believe that punishment needs to have an element of deterrence to it.

Fay got 4 strokes from a cane, he walked away and his ass was pretty sore for a few weeks. Tough medicine to be sure, but he probably never picked up a can of spay paint again.

We can argue how much deterrence is appropriate, but a situation where laws are being completely ignored needs to be corrected. I've lived in and around NYC most of my life and the graffiti problem has existed for decades. Subway cars get covered in spray paint as fast as the MTA can clean them. Vandals use sandpaper to scratch initials onto windows. The same thing happens to highway signs and abutments, overpasses and buildings. Whatever is being done to stop it hasn't worked and I'm sick of looking at it. If Fay's punsihment was done to the vandals here, they'd get no sympathy from me and I'll bet lots of New Yorkers would be cheering.

As for the video, my comment had to do with recidivism and how unlikely it would be in that case. That is just an observation. Yeah, it's a brutal punishment, but I can think of crimes for which it might be appropriate - child rape comes to mind.

Sorry if you think I'm a hard ass.

[EOTE]

35. You're not a hard ass. You're a right wing authoritarian.

A RWA is one who submits to authority. Of course, most RWA's like to think that they're a hard ass.

And no, there would not be lots of New Yorkers cheering that. New Yorkers are far more rational than that overall.

If one rapes a child, he/she should spend the rest of their lives in prison. At which point the deterrent effect becomes meaningless. So you either think that child rapists should be getting off on parole, or you think that performing corporal punishment on someone who is serving a life sentence is appropriate. Either way...

[badtoworse]

38. Here's what one well known New Yorker had to say

Ed Koch was a great mayor and a New York treasure.

The Straits Times, Singapore, 21 April 1994
Bring back caning in US
By Ed Koch

NEW YORK -- The caning sentence in Singapore for a young American convicted of vandalism has ignited an emotional debate about the deteriorating state of law and order in our own society.

Caning was legal in the United States until it was ruled unconstitutional in 1948. I think we should amend the Constitution and bring back caning to help restore order to our streets.

The caning I have in mind does not necessarily have to be the Singapore type, administered brutally to the point of physical shock. It could be a more severe version of the belt-lashing my father used to give me. But I believe it would be salutary, and I am not alone in my views.

Recently, every time I go out on speaking engagements around the country, I poll my audience by asking this question. If you knew that by caning every convicted drug dealer, it would vastly reduce drug dealing and recidivism, would you support the reintroduction of caning? Overwhelmingly and consistently, people, including liberals, said yes by something like a 98-2 margin.

People in America are fed up that crime and recidivism -- 50 per cent of criminals in New York state are repeat offenders -- continue to mount, no matter how many people get sent to jail.

Yet, there is no other adequate form of punishment available but the death penalty, which applies, as it should, to only a very small, limited number of crimes.

Clearly, we need some form of punishment between death and ineffectual jail sentences. From my experience as mayor of New York, I know that judges are less and less prone to send people to jail for anything other than crimes of violence. They say we must save the overcrowded jail space for the more violent offenders, or that prisons turn juveniles into adept criminals.

Well, let us do the right thing and give the justice system another option. I have little doubt that the fear of being caned would deter people from engaging in the kinds of crimes they do now with impunity.

In a recent interview, Singapore's elder statesman, Mr Lee Kuan Yew, pointed out deeper causes for the deterioration of social order in America, and I absolutely agree with his views.

He said civil society has broken down in America for two related reasons: Because the freedom of the individual has become so inviolable as to be elevated to a "dogma" at the expense of society and because the family has fallen apart in all too many cases. This has led, he said, "to the erosion of the moral underpinning of (American) society and the diminution of personal responsibility."

To be sure, the individual has rights which must be defended fiercely. But the rights of society must be paramount.

I agree with Mr Lee when he says that the belief that society would flourish if everyone was allowed to do their own thing has turned out to be wrong and contrary to human nature.

The breakdown of the family in America is not a fact just in minority communities. It is a fact across the board. If the parent is not there to discipline the children when they do something wrong, by default it must be done by the state as society's protector.

Part of the arch-left philosophy is the idea that children from broken families must be understood as victims. Here I also agree with Mr Lee in some of his remarks. Being a "victim of society" is no excuse. If you do something wrong, you should be punished. Personal responsibility is a demand on our fellow citizens that must be restored in American society.

I agree wholeheartedly with British Prime Minister John Major, who said concerning the two 10 year olds accused of kidnapping and murdering a toddler: "I feel strongly that society needs to condemn a little more and understand a little less."

Of course, the state cannot put the family back together. But it does not have to be an accomplice by refusing to teach values in the public schools. There has been much debate about this because people somehow think you cannot teach values without teaching religion.

Values transcend religion. To teach that "Thou shall not kill" or "Thou shall not steal" does not mean you have to teach the Ten Commandments as given to Moses.

To teach love and respect for your parents is not teaching Confucianism; it is teaching values.

I am not advocating that America becomes an authoritarian Singapore. I am saying there are alternatives within the beloved Constitution to cope with the completely out-of-control criminality that makes us fear for our lives in our own neighbourhoods.

The kind of sympathy being shown in America for common sense in Singapore indicates that our troubled society has arrived at a turning point. The average American knows that we must balance the interests of society and the individual.

That balance has gotten out of whack and must return to some kind of equilibrium.

Once-scorned aphorisms of the past such as "Spare the rod and spoil the child" are ringing true again. The things we once learned at our mother's knee will be embraced once more.

The writer, who was the mayor of New York from 1978 to 1989, contributed this article to Global Viewpoint.

[EOTE]

39. Congratulations on yet another appeal to authority!

You certainly don't disappoint!

I notice that you still didn't note whether you think that child rapists should be roaming the streets or whether you support corporal punishment for people with life sentences. I'm sure you'll come up with a response that gives due deference to authority at any time.

[badtoworse]

40. I'd have to give the child rapist question more thought

They certainly do not belong on the street. The question is whether a long prison sentence provides sufficient deterrence by itself.

[EOTE]

41. So you believe that child rapists deserve parole, but caning for petty theft or vandalism is good.

Because a long prison sentence (not life imprisonment) means that they'll eventually be paroled. Just wanted to make sure. Thanks.

[badtoworse]

42. Child rapists deserve life imprisonment, that doesn't mean they'll get it

Even then, I'm not sure how much of a deterrent it would be. I'm looking to prevent a first time as opposed to a second time.

[Swede]

30. Badtoworse is also a big fan of the gungeon.

Corporal punishment is barbaric.

[EOTE]

32. This does not surprise me one bit.

Gotta have one's pound of flesh, one way or the other.

[Johnny Rico]

33. Weird Al's take on the caning:

[badtoworse]

37. Leave it to Weird Al - hilarious

[mainer]

25. In all fairness, you should compare it to surrounding countries

and see where it falls on the poverty/health/education scale. To compare it to the US is hardly fair.

[pa28]

43. Singapore is tax free haven. The great Jim Rodgers moved his fortune and family there.

Billionaires are wicked smart. Much smarter than us so who are we to question?

However I sometimes wonder how financiers with such a deep understanding of risk management stake their fortunes, their future, their children's future and maybe even their own lives on the political stability that little nation-state.

If things get hot maybe they will will count on a "bailout" in the form of US intervention. That would be ironic.

[bluestate10]

45. If things get hot, I say fucking let them deal with it.

They renounced USA citizenship and the responsibilities that come with it. If they get in trouble, let them buy their fucking way out of it. One thing that I don't want to see is any of them being allowed to set foot and live in this country again, although politicians won't enforce that ban. Selfish bastards like Rodgers can take their money whereever they want if things get hot in Singapore, to Rodgers and other that make the decision he made, I gladly say shove every dollar of that money up your asses.

[bluestate10]

44. The correlation.

Between Singapore not taxing capital gains and it's future is not as concrete as you imply. But first, let me clear up one misconception that you seem to have. The transaction that the Facebook bonehead was involved in does not fall under capital gains, it falls under earned income. The earned income is either delayed if the shares held have restrictions on them, or immediate if the shares have no restrictions attached. Typically, insiders in a company can sell only a small percentage of the shares that are allocated to them before an initial public offering. Saveriegn, or whatever the fuck his name is, is still holding most of his Facebook stock. Facebook will most likely not pay out dividends for many years, so the only route for an insider to make money is through stock sales when stock becomes unrestricted, or through special non-dividend distributions of cash. Any dividend, or non-dividend cash distribution is a capital gain and get taxed at capital gain rates. Any sale of stock is non-dividend investment income and is taxed at the applicable income tax rate if some of the various loopholes that exist in the USA taxcode are not used to reduce the effective taxrate paid.

Back to my point on Singapore. Singapore is a gateway to Asia for a myriad amount of legal and illegal activity. The legal activity is subject to the taxrates that Singapore apply. The illegal activity most likely doesn't get taxed unless legal front companies are set up to launder money. But what the illegal activity does do is provide living money the people that are involved in those kinds of activities, thus blunting the impact on Singapore society of a moronic taxation policy relative to capital gains.