Would you please consider using the word "respect" (or disrespect) instead of "politically correct"?

[jtuck004]

"Politically correct" is a radical right frame, a codeword they hide behind which allows them to sneer at people who they think are differ nt, beneath them, or not as human as the rest without being as transparently obnoxious.

One definition of this noun says "esteem for or a sense of the worth or excellence of a person". People using the term "politically correct" are buying into the desperate need to avoid giving a sense of worth to their neighbors. But I do understand that not everyone is so inclined.

Words matter, I think, and when people use that term in my hearing, I often ask them why they don't just say respect - it sometimes makes them think.

One of my favorite quotes - "“How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world.”, from Anne Frank.

You can start now. Your move.

[CJCRANE]

1. Good idea

[Nye Bevan]

2. Nope.

To take an example, renaming Easter Eggs "Spring Spheres" is political correctness gone mad. (Or should I say "political correctness gone mentally challenged"?). It's not "respect".

[marybourg]

6. Silly as your example is, it could

be seen as respectful to allow non-christians to bring their children to such events.

[Throd]

9. Or it could just be plain stupid.

[Cave_Johnson]

15. They are two separate things...

and do not have the same definition..

So.. no...

[pipoman]

44. I've never heard of a non-christian being disallowed

or kicked out of an Easter egg hunt...

[marybourg]

52. Well i guess I meant "allow" in the

sense of "give latitude to" rather than legally permit.

[FarCenter]

53. Ishtar is the Babylonian Goddess of Fertility

So it is Christians that should feal queasy about going on Ishtar egg hunts.

[rug]

27. That's geometrically incorrect.

Eggs are not spheres.

[lumberjack_jeff]

55. It's "ellipsoid" and you're in the wrong room. This is politically correct - "pedantic" is 2nd door.

[rug]

56. Oops.

[msongs]

3. "this post is 'politcally correct'" vs "this post is 'respect' "? doesn't seem to make sense using

"respect" in that sentence.

[CJCRANE]

5. Think about it. Would you a call a black person a ____, or a hispanic person a ________, or a white

person a _____ ...? (Fill in the blanks).

No, probably not, just out of 'respect'.

The word seems appropriate to me.

[MissMarple]

4. So, if one is being "politically incorrect", one is being rude or disrespectful?

I like it. That could prove useful.

[NoPasaran]

7. A PC term for "politically correct"?

With respect, no.

[Throd]

8. Well I considered it, and will continue to "politically correct".

Your framing of the term is that people who object to political correctness are upset because they can't tell racist jokes. That is one definition. I object to political correctness because some people want to call a Christmes Tree a "Winter Festival Arbor' or some other ridiculous crap. I don't want public discourse restricted to placate the sensibilities of the most easliy offended among us.

[hobbit709]

10. I've been using the term for at least 40 years.

Long before the RW started using it.

[oldhippie]

11. I don't think so.

Two entirely different concepts.

[RZM]

12. No. There's a reason PC sometimes has a negative connotation

Depending on the specific use/connotation, it can be extremely unpopular and utterly ridiculous. I don't think it's fair to replace it with a term that lends legitimacy to nonsense like 'spring spheres,' as pointed out above.

[Jim Lane]

34. No, it was in the early 1970s.

The term did indeed arise on the left. Some progressives/radicals were intolerant of any deviation from what they perceived as the proper ideology, including any use of terms they thought inappropriate. Others, reacting against this holier-than-thou attitude, coined "politically correct" as a mocking description of it. Like hobbit709 in #10, I've been hearing the term for 40 years or so. Wikipedia confirms this, quoting an author named Debra Shultz: "Throughout the 1970s and 1980s, the New Left, feminists, and progressives . . . used their term politically correct ironically, as a guard against their own orthodoxy in social change efforts". (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politically_correct)

As you say, it was only subsequently adopted by the right wing. Incidentally, I can't recall that right wingers have ever displayed any similar widespread awareness of excesses on their side.

[Shankapotomus]

14. "politically correct"

is not a code phrase for me. Never has been one. I have proudly identified myself as an advocate of political correctness unabashedly.

Instead of dropping the term, why not reinforce and defend its original intent and meaning?

[Warren DeMontague]

16. Because it comes off as pretentious, for one.

Why people think they're going to win over allies by lecturing them, I'll never understand.

[Shankapotomus]

31. And neither will I understand

why people think they are going to win over allies by ignoring their pain.

And why would someone find a "lecture" (if that's what you want to call it. I would call it a simple request for inclusiveness) objectionable if it was the truth? I would guess the objection is more to the sense of a loss of power and superiority over others at, for example, changing the design of a state flag, than there actually being something wrong with the request for a more inclusive substitute.

In other words, the request is fine but because having to comply with what others request of you out of reason hurts your sense of superiority and control, you're going to ignore it?

You see, this is what is wrong with this country. People's egos getting in the way of doing what's right. No one can ever be caught submitting or admitting they were wrong, not even if they are. You can't extend the olive branch first for fear of being perceived as weak and I point the finger squarely on where it belongs and that is paternalism which boils down to keeping and making enemies. This kind of thinking, acting out and posturing has got to go.

[Warren DeMontague]

32. There are better and worse ways of framing things.

Why would someone find a lecture objectionable? Because people dont like to be lectured.

If you'd like, i can lecture you extensively on why i think people dont like to be lectured, but i dont think you'd like it.

If "politically correct" is such great framing, though, i heartily encourage you to reclaim the phrase fom the right wing AM radio asshats of the world.

Not to insult Rectally-chapeau'd Americans, there, or anything.

[arely staircase]

40. so when tea baggers object to the term sharia or ramadan, you are going to back them up,

or "ignore their pain?"

[Shankapotomus]

41. As outlined in my previous post,

that wouldn't be a fight true political correctness advocates would take up because it is aimed at EXCLUDING others rather than moving toward greater inclusiveness. Addressing a groups pain does not include defending practices of greater intolerance. And that includes any of the intolerant views practiced by Muslims, as well.

[arely staircase]

49. point well taken and my example was poor, here is a real life one for yo

we had to change the name of our halloween party at the school where i teach to "fall festival" because certain fundamentalists christians felt excluded by it. are you with them on that one? and yes the fundies in question are outside of the mainstream even for the conservative area in which i live. the are a numerical and cultural minority, but we had to lose all the halloween ghosts and goblins trappings, costumes, etc in order to "move toward greater inclusiveness." they sucked the fun right out of the whole thing. also, we can't assign stories that include greek mythology because of these same people.

[Shankapotomus]

51. The name change would be

a courtesy that would be easy enough to comply with but the dictating of activities I would categorize as akin to trying to dictate whether jokes will be told within the comedic context of a stand-up comedy show. Jokes will be told about people but it is up to the participants to understand the context in which those jokes will be told. Furthermore, that is not an example of pure political correctness. There seems to be some excluding going on in the name of fairnesss. In other words, where one group's behavior is being sacrificed for the sake of another. Where this kind of diversion in accepted activies occurs it's important not to judge one or the other as wrong but to recognize both sides and propose something outside of the box. Both sides should understand that imposing too much of ones doctrines on another is not acceptable and in such cases where the differences are so great and/or clash it is not wrong or offensive to question whether other options for your child would be better if you really need that much control over their environment. I mean, if your problem is with diversity in activities at a school that advocates diversity, then you need to seriously ask yourself why your child is there.

[pipoman]

46. "pain"? Or simple over sensitivity?

[Shankapotomus]

47. You have judge each case on

Last edited Sun May 20, 2012, 09:11 AM - Edit history (3)

its merits. Someone's pain is usually another's over sensitivity. So the real question should be, does addressing some group's idea of pain, inflict pain on another group? If it doesn't put anybody else out in a significant way, one should consider adapting to a group's request for a change in behavior. For instance, people throw around the term "retard" often. But this is found offensive to many people with and who know people with different physiological cognitive abilities. It doesn't hurt me one bit from refraining from using that term and I'm happy to do it, even though I personally know no one facing cognitive ability challenges. Yet some people will belabor the point that it infringes on their free speech leaving the only option to continue to offend people.You don't have to know or feel why another group is offended by something. You just have to ask is it really that much of an inconvienance to me to give somebody a little slack and make their existence a little easier if all it is is changing a name on a team or redesigning a state flag?

In addition, political correctness doesn't mean you have to refrain from language around people of your inner circle who get the "joke" and know you're not really a hateful or mean person. Case in point are the many fans of South Park and Family Guy whose ethnic and physical differences have been targeted (myself included) yet still love those shows. It just means you are aware of the difference of when you are among the public at large and when you are among your inner circle of friends who will be more adept at knowing when you are serious and when you are joking.

It's all about being aware of different perspectives under different contextes, not about making everyone over-sensitive.

As much as an advocate for political correctness as I am, I have a lesbian cousin who throws out the term "fag" as a joke at family gatherings. Everyone knows it's a joke and I find it particularly hilarious. So the argument that advocating political correctness is just going to make everyone boring and stale and sensitive has no real merit for me. My life is no less colorful and fun than anyone else's, maybe more so because I can enjoy life's little forays into political in-correctness under the right context and without fearing who will be offended next.

But if your attitude is "I'm going to say what I want, wherever and under any context I want" and not worry about who is offended, to me, that's like shooting an arrow up in the air and not caring where it will land. You're just asking to be called out on it.

[Nye Bevan]

18. So you refer to Easter Eggs as "Spring Spheres"?

The words "Christmas Tree" never pass your lips?

You don't approve of Santa saying "ho ho ho" because "ho" can be slang for prostitute?

Instead of saying "manhole" you say "personnel access chamber"?

You avoid the word "brainstorming" in case it offends epileptics?

[Shankapotomus]

23. I had not heard of those

euphemisms but to the extent that they are real and official suggested replacements, and not somebody's idea of a joke, sure, why not?

It's not going to hurt me not to hurt somebody else.

[derby378]

26. Well, that's why you need people like me on DU...

My family puts up a Christmas tree every year, I hunted for Easter eggs when I was a kid (and look forward to watching my nephew do likewise in a couple of years), and I do a little brainstorming once in a while.

Tolerance cuts both ways, and political correctness has a habit of breeding its own version of intolerance - which is yet another reason I don't practice it.

[CJCRANE]

28. Most of those 'politically correct' terms are RW nonsense

designed to rile up conservatives.

I'm sure most people (even very liberal ones) don't object to Christmas trees and Easter Eggs. I also still say 'brainstorming'. There is no evidence that epileptic people object to the word.

[Shankapotomus]

29. But the difference between you

and a group that might object to the use of a term or phrase is that they actually may be hurt or feel socially isolated or ostracized due to the use of a term. If a term is excluding others, why would you object to using another term that incorporates more inclusiveness?

It seems to me there is real, productive and inclusive political correctness and another sort of false or pseudo political correctness that that hides behind the banner of fairness in order to continue to exclude others. Your complaint seems to be political correctness is discrimatory because it interferes with a groups' ability to discriminate. But that is not true political correctness...that is plain old discrimination. Real political correctness is aimed at including everybody, especially those that have been traditionally excluded as a part of historic discriminatory practices.

[CJCRANE]

30. But I've never met a non-christian who objects to the term "Easter Eggs"*.

It's just a non-issue.

I can understand that some people prefer "Happy Holidays" to "Merry Christmas" because other religions also celebrate winter festivals around the same time.

*Besides which, Jesus didn't even hatch from an egg, it's a pagan symbol.

[treestar]

43. It even sounds like something right wingers made up in order

to make fun of "political correctness."

[CJCRANE]

24. Who actually comes up with these new terms?

I'm sure if you asked most people, including Jewish people and Muslims if they objected to the term "Easter Eggs", I'm sure they'd say no.

[pipoman]

48. Very sensitive and caring souls

who only wish we could all be as sensitive and caring of others as they are...

[CJCRANE]

25. It seems like the "Spring Spheres" story was a hoax...

“Spring Spheres” Instead Of “Easter Eggs?” Not So Fast

http://www.thefrisky.com/2011-04-17/spring-spheres-instead-of-easter-eggs-not-so-fast/

I suspect most of these terms are concocted just to rile up RWers.

[Warren DeMontague]

33. "spring spheres"might be more in line with the traditional meaning of easter

But, then, i know what those eggs and rabbits REALLY represent.

[hifiguy]

17. I would never use a word commonly perceived as a racial slur

against any AA, Latino/Hispanic or Asian person. If members of a group want to use such words to refer to themselves - see, for example, The Boondocks animated series - fine. They are not "my" words and never can be as I have never been and never will be a member of that group and have no experience of how those words have traditionally been used in bigoted, oppressive, and derisive ways. I don't have the right, if you will, to presume to use those words.

As a white male, I do reserve the right to call bigoted, ignorant, lame-ass white people idiot crackers, however.

[EFerrari]

19. That would be too easy for those unclear on the concept. n/t

[Quantess]

20. This is Help & Meta material.

Take it there.

[TLM]

21. You’re orating equine excrement…

…and my assessment is politically correct, but certainly not respectful.

Although accurate.

[trof]

22. I dunno. It is indeed interesting to watch the progression in terms.

I remember when Alabama had state insane asylums.
Bryce's Hospital for the Insane was just up the road from me when I was at the University of Alabama.

When I was a kid, a friend had a little brother with what we now call Down's Syndrome.
Back in the 40s and 50s he was termed a mongoloid idiot.
That was the medical diagnosis, as I remember.

What we now call 'mentally challenged' (or is it 'developmentally'?) went from just being simple-minded or slow, to retarded. At the time that was deemed a much more sympathetic, kinder term.

Reference to individuals of possible African extraction went from the infamous 'N' word (That which shall not be said.) to colored people (NAACP), to Nigra (Nice try.), to Negroe, to Black (...is Beautiful, Baby!),
to Afro-American,to African-American, back to somewhere between Black and African-American.
(My black friends say 'Black folks'.)

And don't get me started on the whole misnomer of "Indians".
What a cosmic joke to mistakenly 'name' a people because you had no idea in hell where you were.
Indians? American Indians? Amerinds? Native Americans?

Not long ago I asked the chief of the Wolf Creek Band of Cherokees here in Alabama what term they preferred.
"We're Indians, this kind of Indians." he said, putting up index and middle fingers behind his head (indicating feathers) and grinning.
"Not dot-head Indians." index finger pointing between eyebrows.
We both laughed.
PC?
I have no idea.

I guess my point is attitudes, sensitivities, and and cultures change.
Maybe sometimes terms get a little overboard.
Life goes on.

[arely staircase]

36. so it isn't pollitically correct to say the words pollitically correct?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox

[quinnox]

37. No, those words are very different

I can respect a lot of different things, politically correct means being aware of what words may be considered offensive to certain groups and avoiding such language.

Here are some sentences where replacing one term with another makes no sense:

I have great respect for her judgment.

I have great political correctness for her judgment.

The great grandfather was held in respect from the rest of the family.

The great grandfather was held in political correctness from the rest of the family.

[arely staircase]

38. i have never thought of political correctness as being exclusively owned by the left or right

we have to call our halloween festival our fall festival at school because the local fundie churches disaproved of of "witchcraft." so halloween became politically incorrect.

[Marr]

39. But "politically correct" has a meaning that is distinct from respect.

I can describe respectful behavior, sure. It can also describe catering and kowtowing to the easily 'outraged'. It can also mean ignoring facts because some don't like them.

[Ship of Fools]

42. THANKS! I've been yelling about this for years.

Except I always used the word *polite.* Kind of quaint
and goofy, but nimrods surrounding me understand it
more easily.

[pipoman]

45. Sounds like a new politically correct request..

[lunatica]

50. They don't mean the same thing

I don't politically correct you. But I do respect your thoughtful post.

[lumberjack_jeff]

54. When "respect" prevents discussion, it should be jettisoned.

If forced to choose between "respectful" and "honest and accurate", I try to always choose the latter.

Respectful language at the expense of clarity and meaning is a good working definition for "politically correct".