Monsters of Ukraine: Made in the USA

[Purveyor]

Fascists proliferate as the country slides into a sinkhole

July 31, 2015

We’re in the summer doldrums of the news cycle, a perfect time for our government and the media – or do I repeat myself? – to drop certain inconvenient stories down the Memory Hole. My job, of course, is to retrieve them….

Remember Ukraine? I seem to recall blaring headlines about a supposedly “imminent” and “massive” Russian invasion of that country: the Anglo-Saxon media was ablaze with a veritable countdown to D-Day and we were treated to ominous sightings of Russian troops and tanks gathering at the border, allegedly just awaiting the order from Putin to take Kiev. And it turns out there has been an invasion, of sorts – although it isn’t a Russian one. It’s the Kiev regime’s own foot-soldiers returning from the front and turning on their masters.

The war is going badly for the government of oligarch Petro Poroshenko. The east Ukrainians, who rose in revolt after the US-sponsored coup threw out democratically elected President Viktor Yanukovych, show no signs of giving up: they’ve repulsed the “anti-terrorist” campaign launched by Kiev, withstanding relentless bombardment of their cities and enduring many thousands of casualties, not to mention widespread destruction. Indeed, the brutal protracted war waged by Kiev against its own “citizens” has arguably steeled the rebels’ resolve and made any thought of reconciliation unthinkable.

As is usual with violent fanatics, the war aims of the Kiev coup leaders – to bring the eastern provinces back into the fold – have been rendered impossible by their methods and conduct. The de facto blockade imposed on the east has bound the separatists all the more tightly to Russia, and so economics as well as searing hatred of a government the easterners regard as “fascist” has sealed the country’s fate.

Unable to crack the rebels’ resolve, the “revolutionaries” who once gathered in the Maiden have begun to turn on each other. Poroshenko, fearful of the rising power of the far-right militias who make up the backbone of his makeshift army, has ordered their dissolution – and the rightists are resisting.

more...

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2015/07/30/monsters-of-ukraine-made-in-the-usa/

[Octafish]

1. NeoPNAC comes to Ukraine

Disaster Capitalism at its finest, Iraq War Class.

Thank you, Purveyor. Justin Raimondo has shined the light on the cockroaches for a long time.

[malaise]

2. K & R

Here comes the swarm to disagree with facts on the ground

[SidDithers]

3. Justin Raimondo. LOL...

We like what "conservative paleo-libertarians" have to say now?

Sid

[Purveyor]

4. When they are right, some do.

[Blue_Tires]

63. But he isn't right, is he, smart guy?

Ron Paul loves Putin, too -- You gonna post some of his speeches?

[snooper2]

64. Wonder why the far left and the far right both think Putin is so fucking dreamy?

Is there something about the fringes that they love the authoritarian? Like Maduro?

Do the folks on the fringes have issues because they didn't have a father figure growing up?


Boggles the mind LOL- Or do they just hate everything West? Bad experience at Disneyland?

[NYC Liberal]

74. Reminds me of one of EarlG's Pics of the Moment:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017178936

It's about Republicans, but I've seen plenty of it happening on DU.

[Blue_Tires]

88. Unholy alliances and all that...

Funny, because I saw the news that Jane Hamsher turned out the lights at FireDogLake last week...DUers of a certain age will remember her very public 'partnership' with Grover Fuckin' Norquist, which the forum universally damned at that time...

Of course if she did this today, the current DU would be giving her a medal...

[SidDithers]

90. FDL closed down?...

I missed that.

There were DUers who basically mirrored everything published there onto DU.

Guess I can retire this graphic now:






Sid

[uhnope]

94. Well "antiwar" is a step up from the time you linked to Hezbollah terrorist website

to promote your admitted extreme antipathy for the USA

[Purveyor]

95. You should have hauled out that 'oldie but goody' when the

thread was still hot.

You're slipping...

[uhnope]

96. it's never to light to shine a light on anti-democratic forces

[uhnope]

7. that's how desperate the Putinistas are to get their message onto DU

sickening

In case anyone thinks I'm exaggerating, pls see http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=984984

[elias49]

9. Blinded by the truth?

No surprise.
Dig a little deeper...it's your hole.

[uhnope]

51. strange metaphor. Those that see truth become blind? And so only the blind can see?

Sounds like Kremlin/Orwellian logic to me

[elias49]

52. Ha! You're a riot.

You have to think outside the box! Think metaphorically.
Get funky.
Best..

Now girding for severe t-storms. Gonna shut down my box.

[Fred Sanders]

5. That the incompetent Kiev regime would disintegrate as soon as it's mercenary army and

mercenery propagandists in the West gave up the charade of legitimacy was an inevitability.

That the wonderful Ukrainian people have to now continue to suffer even more under the boot of Western imperialism operating through this failed puppet government is a crime against humanity.

[uhnope]

8. wow.

Follow Kremlin media much?

[elias49]

11. Anti-war.com is Kremlin media?

Where'd you learn to read?
Don't you just hate facts when you can't accept them?

[geek tragedy]

14. You are incredibly eager to accept every pro-Moscow article

and claim. A pattern going back years.

Someone hates facts all right.

You will forgive us if we don't follow along in blindly cheering for the fascist regime in Moscow against President Obama and our own country.

P.S. Antiwar.com are big Slobo Milosevic fans too. That's the side of history you've placed yourself on.

[elias49]

16. Ah well Geek

Go your silly way.
America, America, God shed his grace on thee!!!

Time for the ignore. Only the second I've sent there in 13 years.
Bye.

[geek tragedy]

17. All hail Putin, defender of plutocrats and homophobia!

Toodles. Give Vladimir our regards.

[uhnope]

29. you win the thread

I hope he puts me on ignore too

[rhett o rick]

44. What stands out is that some here that call themselves political liberals

want to censor what others see if they don't agree with the message. This thread is a great example. What are you afraid of if you let this OP stand? If it's a lie, then explain how it is so, instead of trying to ridicule those that don't agree with you? Look at the posts here that object to the OP and show me substance. Alert, lock and hide that which can't be intellectually refuted.

[uhnope]

50. would you say the same thing about articles from Stormfront or the KKK?

[rhett o rick]

53. This is a message board for politically liberal posters. If you think this OP meets the

standards similar to the KKK, you are free to make that case. And you are also free to ignore, but to mock and ridicule just because you don't like the message isn't very Democratic. Let others disagree with you without the necessity of calling them "paid Russian sock puppets". And to vie to "win the thread" with ridicule, is pretty sad. Ridicule, alert, lock, and hide that which you don't agree with.

[uhnope]

54. That sounds like a"yes" --you think KKK messages would be OK on DU.

I think most disagree with you on that. If that's really your position, fine. I suppose a case could be made that neo-Nazis should be able make posts urging "death to the Jews" and Holocaust denial, and then the rest of DU would just "disagree" (but not to "mock and ridicule."!) Again, it's hard for me to believe you actually think that, but apparently so. Please clear it up if I got it wrong.

Otherwise, you think ridiculing the ridiculous is wrong? I don't. It's an important tool. The OP is ridiculous. And I don't really get what you're doing spending time defending it--unless you are in de facto agreement with the strident propaganda and CT of it.

[nilesobek]

60. Toodles...haha that cracks me up.

A lot of people don't understand what the conditions are really like in Russia. There is a ton of poverty there. People who knock the USA might not do too good over there in dog eat dog Russia.

Its a fascist oligarchy run by a career KGB hitman who would have lost his seat had he not kicked out the activists and regained control of the media. He's fighting a losing battle with the homophobia and the only reason its still there is the Orthodox Church. Russia is still 20 years behind the USA in human rights in that regard.

That's why Putin and Bush got along so good. Bush's dad ran the CIA for 30 years. Obama was like the ultimate curveball for Putin in that Putin is never going to be able to clock Obama like he did the Bushes,

[elias49]

68. "There is a ton of poverty there." Your quote.

So I should support US actions that make life even more miserable for the common people?
That's my point...always has been. I don't like being a tax-paying part of it- and especially not part of the group of cheerleaders that roots for food rationing or a failing infrastructure for the citizens of any country.
If I could vote for Putin, I wouldn't. But unlike some, I take no pleasure from from stories about stepping on someone's neck.
Fuck that.
'nuf said.

[nilesobek]

75. Are you part of the one percent?

I doubt it. Then you might as well grab a shovel and join the brigade.

I don't support any actions either way. I was commenting, rather accurately, at the nature of the Putin regime. (Pats self on back).

Its going to come down to arms control and peace talks, ABM talks and agreements just like in the 1970s, That's why I can take such a cavalier attitude about this. Its either Detente or atomic missiles being detonated 300 feet above National Capitals. Take your pick.

[elias49]

79. But does detente include 'crippling sanctions'?

"Detente: the easing of hostility or strained relations, especially between countries."
Continuing sanctions, escalating sanctions...that;s not detente.
I have no argument with you. I have strong disagreements with the "America - right or wrong" posters that haunt all threads "Russia".
I have no use for folks who think in black and white. "We're right. We're Americans and Americans are by definition exceptional. The rest are heathens and frauds and deserve to suffer."
And, no. I'm not in the 1%. Far from it.
Just an elderly man who has seen this shit since I was in high school. We've been kicking ass all over the planet since as long as I can remember. SE Asia, Central America, South America. Anywhere there are brown folks.
Stay sane!

[snooper2]

66. did America eat your cookie?

[stevenleser]

71. Anti-war.com is a negative nationalist site with the US as its chosen antagonist.

http://orwell.ru/library/essays/nationalism/english/e_nat

[snooper2]

65. where do you live? I think I need to smoke some chronic with you

Got High?

[zappaman]

73. Count me in.

Just went to the farmacy and picked up a nice sativa.

[NuclearDem]

6. Holy shit, not even Russian state media is that hilariously one-sided.

Hannah Bell would be proud.

[elias49]

10. You're an expert?

Name some names from Kiev that you think are upstanding country builders. Please.
Or point out the lies in the Raimondo piece.
Otherwise, maybe you should hold your thick tongue.

[NuclearDem]

24. I'd say my tongue is about of average thickness, thankyouverymuch!

As for the article, Rambo III had a more ambiguous agenda.

[dougolat]

27. 'Hilariously one-sided" like the US corporate media on Iraq?..nt

[NuclearDem]

31. Yes, and now here we are with people pushing more hilariously one-sided war propaganda.

Just a different country, different illegal act of aggression.

[dougolat]

32. That's assuming the US media have switched sides

...and now working for truth and peace.

The evidence does not support that.

[NuclearDem]

33. US media has nothing to do with it.

Plain fact is we've got posters here continuously spreading stories from Russian state media, or stories citing Russian state media, which conveniently make a case for Russian military intervention in Ukraine.

Bogus story about an attempted assassination of their president? Check.

Vastly overstating the prevalence of the far-right in Kiev--specifically, the successors to the Nazis Russia fought during the Great Patriotic War? Check.

Lionizing the rebels and demonizing the government? Check.

Russian state media has lied about this since day one to justify Putin's war.

[dougolat]

34. Isn't that taking the word of proven liars

..to dismiss suspected liars?

[NuclearDem]

35. Western and Russian state media aren't the only sources on this issue.

What's left of Russia's independent journalism has called the state media out on their lies consistently.

[elias49]

12. K&R for truth.

Thanks Purveyor.

[geek tragedy]

13. Citing a rightwing Ron Paul type, nice. nt

[Octafish]

20. Raimondo opposed Bush's war in Iraq from Day 1. He ran as a Democrat against Nancy Pelosi.

If he'd had more money, who knows? Maybe he'd be speaker one day?

As for Ron Paul, nobody mentioned him until you, geek tragedy.

[tammywammy]

21. He ran as a republican against Pelosi.

http://clerk.house.gov/member_info/electionInfo/1996/96Stat.htm#5

http://www.antiwar.com/raimondo/

[Octafish]

23. Sorry. My mistake.

For some reason, I remembered him as a candidate in the primary.

Do you think he'd have taken impeachment off the table?

[tammywammy]

25. In a hypothetical situation where he beat Pelosi in 1996

He would have then had to assume a leadership position within the republican party. Raimondo is self described as "conservative paleo-libertarian". The other notable paleo-libertarian during this time is Ron Paul. Paul got no where close to a leadership position.

So then, even if we assume Raimondo got that far, then let's pretend the republicans maintained a majority in the House in 2006 he still would have had to beat Hastert for Speaker of the House.

No, I still don't think impeachment would have been on the table, because a majority of Republicans wouldn't have supported it.

Thankfully this is all hypothetical, because I was glad the democratic party became the majority in the House.

[rhett o rick]

45. If you don't agree why don't you provide an intellectual argument instead of just snark?

Save the answer. The question was rhetorical. I know the answer.

[JackRiddler]

15. Shocked, shocked, that the inevitable comes to pass.

So far this post also passes the test of pissing off the right people.

[pampango]

18. Yanukovich campaigned on closer ties with Europe. His government negotiated that agreement

until a few days before the signing ceremony then abruptly changed course and decided not to sign it.

How dare people take to the streets and demonstrate against a politician who reneges on a campaign promise? Ukrainians should accept whatever their political leaders decide is best for them without asking any questions and certainly without demonstrating throughout a cold Ukrainian winter. Americans, by and large, do not take to the streets do protest actions of politicians and look where it has gotten us.

[MattSh]

22. Maybe you need to take a break from the mainstream media?

Just about everything you said there is an invention of the mainstream media.

[Adrahil]

26. And maybe you need to stop believing..

.. every anti-Western thing published.

It is completely shocking to me the crap some around here will accept from Putin and his propaganda machine just because it is anti-American.

[rhett o rick]

46. I don't believe every anti-western thing that is published just as I didn't believe the USofA

corp media that pushed the Iraq War. I like to hear all sides. You know, like a politically liberal would. I am sure you would agree. And I really resent those that think they should be able to use ridicule or alerting, locking and hiding to prevent me from seeing the different sides.

[Xolodno]

69. I don't post often...and just read.

But, I have seen a number posts get alerted and hidden. Sometimes, the article is just regurgitation of propaganda, other times they bring out valid points. But they both get censored. It does seem a group here is actively doing everything they can to hide counter views to the "western narrative".

One claims that they just hate Putin...okay. But for awhile, you could rely that everyday they would post something that resembled "Two Minutes Hate".

And of course, their counter to valid points usually run the gambit of:

LOL!

Nunland's Cookies!

Here come the Putinistas!

Why do you like Putin! (Which is similar to what Fox News used to do..."Why are you against the President?&quot

etc.

And when that doesn't work...Alert and hide.

[TBF]

19. Anyone paying attention in the 1980s re Central America

has seen this movie before. We were not amused then and are not surprised re Ukraine now.

[Depaysement]

28. Yanukovich drove himself out

Even his own party abandoned him en masse. Every member of the Rada voted to oust him or abstained.

The Russians took Crimea and basically have a division inside the Ukraine. What international legal standard sanctions this invasion?

[nationalize the fed]

36. +7000

Here's Victoria Nuland, wife of PNAC Co-Founder Robert Kagan, talking about the 5 BILLION DOLLARS stolen from the sleeping American People to fund the Ukraine boondoggle- note the Chevron logo in the background

Here's Vicki (Wife of PNAC Co-Founder Robert Kagan) spreading diplomacy

If 5 BILLION DOLLARS can be stolen from the American People so easily then perhaps they deserve to lose it.

[NuclearDem]

38. First of all, that "$5 billion coup" meme isn't getting any more accurate the more you post it.

Second, neither is that "fuck the EU" meme. It's amazing how some reconcile that with the "coup government" being overwhelmingly Europeanist. Not much of a "fuck the EU", is it?

[elias49]

39. I have no idea what you're saying.

You mean Nuland didn't say "Fuck the EU"?

[NuclearDem]

40. She most certainly did say it.

Right after suggesting bringing in the UN as a mediator to end the crisis. Which kinda blows a hole in that stupid "US hates diplomacy" meme.

[FlatBaroque]

41. .

, to use your team's vernacular.

[NuclearDem]

42. .

Привет, to use yours.

[kwassa]

37. IMHO, there are paid Russian sock puppets on DU.

Russia does this all over the Internet.

Lots of stories about this.

[nilesobek]

43. Looks to me like the battle lines

are being drawn between the old Holy Roman Empire vs the Eastern Orthodox Church. That's where the borderlines are being drawn in the Ukraine.

These beefs go back hundreds and hundreds of years between the Holy Roman Empire and Eastern Orthodoxy. Why should we be involved or even care again? I didn't get the original memo...

[doxyluv13]

58. You are exactly right..

Though I think it was the division between the Hapsburg and Russian empires. Those Ukrainians under Hapsburg rule were converted to Roman Catholicism.

[Nye Bevan]

47. Interesting, when I search this page for "crimea" there are no matches found.

I wonder why that could be?

[muriel_volestrangler]

48. Nor are there mentions of what the initial Donetsk and Lugansk leadership was like

The political leadership initially consisted of Pavel Gubarev,[70][71] a former member of the neo-Nazi Russian National Unity paramilitary group and former Communist Progressive Socialist Party of Ukraine,[72][73][74][75] who was also arrested on charges of separatism and illegal seizure of power but released in a hostage swap.[76][77] Denis Pushilin self-appointed as chairman of the government,[78][79] while Igor Kakidzyanov has been named as the commander of the "People's Army".[80] Alexander Borodai, a Russian citizen claiming to be involved in the Russian annexation of Crimea, was appointed as 'Prime Minister'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donetsk_People%27s_Republic

Under the headline “Trusted Fighters of the Russian World Gather in the DPR: New Head of State Security Appointed”, Borodai and Strelkov-Girkin announced that security in the new separatist stronghold of Donetsk would be the responsibility of Vladimir Antyufeyev.

A Russian national (like Borodai and Strelkov-Girkin), Antyufeyev was in charge of the KGB for 20 years in the breakway Transdniestrian Moldovan Republic (TMR) before his return to Russia in 2012.

In the late 1980s Antyufeyev supported Russian militants in Latvia. He then moved to Moldova where (like Borodai and Strelkov-Girkin) he fought in the war which resulted in the breakway TMR. He has been on Latvia’s “wanted” list since 1991, and on the EU’s “persona non grata” list since 2004.
...
Like Borodai, Strelkov-Girkin, Antyufeyev and Pushilin, Bashirov is a Russian national. He is the former vice-president of a Russian private energy company and a former lobbyist for the private sector. In his first public statement after his appointment he announced that the LPR would be switching to the Russian ruble.

http://www.workersliberty.org/story/2014/07/15/pro-russian-separatists-regroup

A bunch of Russians, some of whom had been involved in the Russian military takeover of Crimea, others involved in Russian activity to undermine other ex-Soviet countries. And yet there are DUers complaining it's the USA that 'interfered' in Ukraine.

[Syzygy321]

49. The Saturday-morning-cartoon version of

current events.

On one side we have villains: Amerikkka, of course, and its wicked liars who made up crazy atuff about soldiers and tanks and people dying; also Poroshenko and his fascists, who are oppressing the gallant rebels who, gosh, just want to be free.

On the other side we have the democratically elected guy who was, sniffle! run off by Amerikkka (though everyone in Ukraine surely adored him! Didn't they?) and poor misunderstood Putin (who has always been a champion of self-determination, media freedom and individual rights), and the noble freedom fighters who are standing up against Ukainian Fascism.

You can recognize the bad guys because they wear black hats and twirl their mustaches. The other side is known by its aparkling haloes.

BTW: how many civilians have died in this noble rebellion, now?

[elias49]

55. Silly. There's only one "K" in Amerika

You must be from out of town.

[Syzygy321]

56. Lol!

You were absent when Rev. Wright taught class.

[doxyluv13]

57. Good piece that deals with the current reality of Ukraine, thanks for posting. A question, tho.

I regret all the nasty name-calling by Anti-Russian posters on this thread.

[Blue_Tires]

62. Perhaps you're on the wrong forum

[doxyluv13]

78. Uh, The forum is General Discussion

It's okay to be ignorant about the history and politics of Ukraine: it takes a bit of effort and intelligence. But anyone can look at the top of column and see the title.

[Blue_Tires]

86. Oh, so the 100-post wonder wants to lecture me?

That's cute...Now run along and let the grown folks talk

[snooper2]

67. RT is down the hall fourth door on the left

Oh-

And fuck Putin

[Blue_Tires]

61. Holy fuckin' shit...Now DU has descended to posting Justin Raimondo??

Hey Purveyor -- Post some of his other "greatest hits" like these:

How FDR lied us into World War II
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2014/12/07/pearl-harbor-and-the-engineers-of-war/

Political Correctness and Imperialism
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2014/06/26/political-correctness-and-imperialism/

Our Truth, and Theirs
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2012/09/11/our-truth-and-theirs/


His blog is an Alex Jones nutbar goldmine of insanity...

[Purveyor]

70. Thanks for linking those articles. Interesting reads, indeed.

[stevenleser]

72. As I said above, the site peddles negative nationalism. It's simply an anti-US and anti-West site

thats all.

[doxyluv13]

76. You can say it a thousand times and it won't make it true.

nt

[stevenleser]

77. It's very obviously true to anyone willing to see it. nt

[elias49]

83. You seriously dispute what was said in those links?

Honestly? My goodness. Please continue!
Please tell the eager crowd where he was inaccurate.
Sounds like you might be the one going Alex Jones: loopy.

[Blue_Tires]

87. You clearly didn't read them

Or do you truly think it's "U.S. imperialism" to get bass-ackward Muslim nations to treat GLBT folks as human beings? Or do you truly believe the long-debunked Bircher bullshit about FDR willfully allowing Pearl Harbor to happen? And there's plenty more like that and worse in his archives...

Oh, who am I kidding? You probably ARE Justin Raimondo...


If the dudebros like you, the OP and everyone else praising this blogger are *SO* laughably desperate to see your biases confirmed that y'all would post this bullshit with a straight face, then Skinner needs to change the name of this forum to "Infowars Lite"...

The silver lining is if I find the time to join MIRT, there will be huge housecleaning on this forum -- I guarantee it...

[elias49]

89. Meh. I have a life.

Carry on crusader.

[Blue_Tires]

91. Oh, that's right -- Go slink away and pretend you weren't defending this clown

Because by now you're probably browsed Raimondo's body of work and realize you were sticking up for a RW conspiracy kook solely because he confirmed your ideology, and now are embarrassed for having done so...

Believe whatever you want, chekist, it's clear nothing is ever changing your mind...Go live in Moscow with Snowden, since it's such a peace-loving, anti-imperialist paradise...

[elias49]

92. What the hell is a 'chekist'?

New to me.

[elias49]

85. I didn't think so. nt

[True Blue Door]

80. The local RT contingent is clearly earning its rubles.

[Purveyor]

81. Those checks aren't clearing as of late but thank the lords the

Iranian ones are...

[NuclearDem]

82. Mike Whitney and the rest of the Counterpunchlings have to eat, don't they?

[Purveyor]

84. I haven't a clue who Mike Whitney is and doubt it would be worth a google to find out.

[elias49]

93. Hey True

Afraid of this thread?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141167784

Come on. Chime in!
Tell everyone how morally superior this oligarchy is compared to ooooooo! Russia.