Is Open Carry for whites only or would someone explain

[malaise]

the white supremacist men with high powered weapons on the streets of Ferguson last night during a State of Emergency.

IF those were African-American men there would have been carnage in Ferguson last night.

[Paladin]

1. Open carry is a significant indicator of White Privilege.

Don't let anybody try to persuade you otherwise.

[Hoyt]

10. [phone]

[magical thyme]

62. can't argue with that. maybe modify it to white male, although occasionally a female nut gets in on

the act so I guess not.

I don't know why whites are allowed to walk around intimidating everybody of every persuasion in their midst, but they are. Even federal authorities are afraid to touch them -- remember the Bundy ranch mess?

And yes, if a black tried it they'd be murdered by LE so fast it would make your head spin.

[doxyluv13]

64. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding…!

you win the prize.

[Eleanors38]

71. Paladin's Narrative®. So, what about H.P. Newton Gun Club?

Did they get a Privilege Pass in Dallas? But DON'T go to ANY other source lest the Narrative® be disrupted. I mean, you damned well don't want anyone to " persuade you otherwise," least of all the HPN Gun Club.

[Paladin]

77. You guys are beating the HPNGC to death, aren't you?

Ever heard of the time-proven notion that an exception can prove the rule? I bet you have.....

[Eleanors38]

88. Deal with it. For once. Then, Deacons for Defense. Let me know.nt

[freshwest]

112. Might as well stop reading right here. You win the thread. But I'll read more. n/t

[Lunabell]

2. Of course open carry is for whites only

Remember the organization that wrote the law.

[Eleanors38]

73. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!

[Thinkingabout]

3. Yes, just ask any of them, the Second Amendment is for only them.

In the case of Ferguson only idiots would carry high powered weapons into an area of protest. It is undeclared war. I don't think the high powered weapons should ever be carried on the streets, dumb.

[malaise]

5. So why did the fugging police do nothing

These are racist terrorists being given a pass the the same people who brought out military weapons for African Americans who were demonstrating last year.

[Thinkingabout]

32. The NRA has been successful in pushing through bills in different states which allow the "open carry

any gerrymandering has been enacted so Republicans are in the majority plus it seems like those elected on both sides are scared shitless to vote against the NRA. Even when the polls show we want stricter gun laws of around 80%, they was still gutless. I don't know how long this will take to get sensible laws, our young folks are getting killed in the streets every day and this gun interest is overpowering.

You know, I remember the Million Man March, and I think I remember correctly there was a drop in the street violence afterwards. This might fix the street violence but I don't think it will do any sensible reasoning with those who lives everyday with guns on their mind. The stand your ground laws has only enhanced their belief it is okay to carry their guns and to shoot without reasons such as in the Travon Martin case. If a person was truly using their weapon to protect their family when threatened, I could understand but road rage, etc does not produce logic.

I would like to see the military weapons off the streets completely, I come from a family of hunters, I was taught at an early age about safety from my father, the hunters in my family thinks one shot should be ample when hunting, in other words, be a good aim and multiple shots are not necessary. And besides they use the game they bag.

You are sensible and think reasonably but apparently the nuts do not think as you or I do.

[freshwest]

113. It's legal and only those with money can afford this crap, so they look the other way. BUT:

One thing that may suprise you - I know two people in an OC state. One is an ex-LEO and the other is a Teabagger. They are both totally freaked out by OC. They are afraid of these people, and they aren't minorities. They no longer want to go out in public, they are paranoid now.

[TexasProgresive]

4. I get what you're saying.

I've often thought that African Americans should get concealed carry licenses and open carry where permitted by law. But then that would make them targets.

[malaise]

6. They would be targets because they would not be protected

by the police, state or city officials

[TexasProgresive]

11. Amen.

[Nay]

51. Exactly. If I were black, I'd feel like I needed a gun, but would know that I would be

shot down in an instant if I actually HAD one. Horrible.

[senz]

59. Just occured to me that if Blacks were to join NRA supporters

in a 2nd Amendment march in full "open carry" display (where it's legal, of course), they would have protection for being part of the demonstration AND their presence would change everything.

If they could be safe doing it, I would love to watch white supremacist heads implode.

Yes, it is disgusting that AAs are excluded from open carry.

[Jim Beard]

128. I am thinking the same along those lines.

Last edited Tue Aug 11, 2015, 11:16 PM - Edit history (1)

Get about 100 black and hispaqnic guys with tattos all over, including eyelids doing an open carry in a white area and you will never hear from the whites again about guns. As a white, it can be frightening. Trust me.

(Edited to correct a "glaring" spelling error.)

[Lee-Lee]

17. I am a NC CCW instructor and have had hundreds of minorities in my classes

Black, Hispanic, LGBT, I welcome any and all.

I've even done classes that were 100% black and 100% LGBT because I do a lot of classes where one person coordinates and gets their friends to come. A lot of people are more comfortable learning something like that in a familiar group.

To date none of my students have had issues in any way, shape or form carrying. Some ran into issues with Sheriifs trying to arbitrarily deny issuing a permit without cause but they eventually got it pushed through.

Concealed carry isn't for everyone. But it is and should be an option for everyone regardless of race, gender or any other factor.

[840high]

53. Good to know.

[Eleanors38]

74. You are disrupting doctrinaire Narrative®, Lee-Lee.

[LanternWaste]

147. Alleged anecdotal evidence does not rise to the level of disruption

Alleged anecdotal evidence does not rise to the level of disruption... though the mental convenience in pretending it does is readily obvious.

Thinking rationally can indeed, be a most difficult task for a biased mind intent on defending the inanimate (space provided below to insert distinction lacking any difference... or another irrelevant bumper sticker should the former prove too difficult).

[Eleanors38]

156. Not recognizing the issue causes any "logic" to go askew or become a joke...

The question centered on the almost inevitable likelihood of blacks being murdered if they demonstrated with long guns; pictures provided, speculations plentiful.

All I have to do is provide examples to the contrary. I did. The HPNGC has demonstrated several times (even in my city in front of the Texas capitol bldg) without problem. I also noted in the thread the experiences of the Deacons for Defense in Bogulousa some 50 yrs ago, which included piling out of a car in broad daylight to confront an angry mob -- which backed down, and the probably killing of a white man after he shot at a black residence, and received return fire for his efforts.

Hard example and fact goes further than spec.

[HFRN]

87. that viewpoint is 'right wing propaganda', even if it comes soley from your own personal experience

as you are obligated to know every right wing talking point, and scan your personal experiences for deletion, in any scenerio where they are remotely similar to said points OR appear to run contrary to doctrinaire Narrative®, as elenor pointed out

get with it lee lee! conform, and you'll feel better!

[Eleanors38]

89. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

[Maedhros]

95. No. There is nothing in the 2nd Amendment guaranteeing the right to conceal a weapon.

I'm not in favor of banning weapons, but I am against the proliferation of concealed carry permits. They should be heavily restricted.

[Lee-Lee]

97. Actually there is a growing body of case law

Disagreeing with your opinion.

Illinois didn't pass a concealed carry law because they suddenly had a change of heart, they did so because the courts ruled that blanket denial of the ability to carry was unconstitutional.

The AG in Illinois did not appeal it all the way to the Supreme Court, so the appeals court ruling stood. It's widely believed that it was not appealed because gun control proponents feared what the outcome would be.

[Maedhros]

101. There is one reason to carry a concealed weapon: to be able to kill someone with it.

Having more and more people with the capacity to kill each other walking around in public places is a bad idea.

Concealed carry permits should be restricted to people with a legitimate need to be armed - off duty law enforcement, security personnel, etc.

I don't really care about the body of case law. Laws can be misguided and wrong. I have to abide by them, but I do not have to accept them as correct.

[Lee-Lee]

107. I would love to see some statistics to back up

Maybe showing that concealed carry holders are more violent, more likely to shoot someone, etc.

Every state has some form of CCW, in how many are CCW holders more dangerous?

[Eleanors38]

158. Actually, the states must not infringe on "keep and bear" guarantees....

A state is obligated to protect both. Now, it can choose to protect Open bearing or Concealed bearing, or protect both as is now the case in most states. But it Cannot choose to deny both, or it would be in violation of both the Second and the Fourteenth Amendments which protect "keep and bear," and prevent the states from denying that right.

[progressoid]

120. This is about Open Carry.

Open carry for a Black person is an invitation to confrontation and likely violent death.

[KT2000]

151. your class is concealed carry, right?

I wonder if open carry would have the same result.

[Lee-Lee]

154. Probably

When I was a deputy it was a daily thing to see people open carrying, most farmers and farm workers (aside from the migrants) did very regularly.

Regardless of race.

You may well get a different reaction in an urban area, I can't speak to that. But in rural areas nobody would look twice if a black man or white man walked into the local restaraunt to get breakfast with a pistol on his hip. He had probably already been working 3-4 hours by that point and was going to eat and talk to the rest of the farmers. And when we were there eating in uniform we just said hello if he greeted us.

Interestingly where I have seen the most hassle given to people who wanted to get a CCW and were legally qualified were urban areas, Forsyth County, Cumberland County and Durham County especially. So the reaction may be quite different there- and may be so for just minorities or for anyone.

[Cosmocat]

44. Fuck yeah

Imagine the reaction if a black person waltzed into a chain restaurant with an assault weapon slung over his shoulder?

[Nay]

52. Hell, one poor black guy in a Walmart couldn't even pick up a BB gun for sale by

that Walmart without getting killed!!

[Cleita]

7. We used to have open carry in California. But the day the Black Panthers

showed up at an event openly carrying weapons, the law got changed.

[malaise]

8. Oh My

QED

[tblue37]

9. And it was under their idol Reagan that that happened. nt

[senz]

61. When I was a young woman walking around Berkely in the 60s, there were Black Panthers

standing on street corners like sentries, and I realized that I felt much safer for having them there.

[Eleanors38]

92. Peculiar, but NOW it seems different. See #22. Question:

Would you deny blacks the RKBA?

[Cleita]

98. I don't approve of vigilantism or armed citizens of any type.

We are no longer a frontier nation so there is no reason to carry weapons in population centers unless we are in the military or in a war zone. So I think those Oathkeepers should be arrested for presenting a danger to civilians. I don't know what the law would be but it seems there are laws that protect citizens from endangerment.

However, if there are open carry or other such lax gun laws in play, then yes, everyone has a right to have a gun, white, blacks, Hispanics, gangsters, undocumented immigrants, women all have the same right. It's not a very smart thing but there you have it.

[Eleanors38]

104. I don't like vigilantism, either. And there was none in Ferguson.

The Constitution and the states assure the RKBA; many like MO allow for OC, though I personally oppose this. I don't think this Oathkeeper group is going anywhere if for no other reason than they have to go into another's community. Though I do not subscribe to much of Malcolm X's outlook, he was right about defending one's own community, specifically citing the Second.

[former9thward]

111. It was not just "an event".

They carried them inside the state capitol while legislators were debating gun control. Not exactly the best tactic.

[Cleita]

116. I fail to see the difference between that and yahoos with guns

pointing from a bridge at federal agents at Clive Bundy's ranch in Nevada. But you missed the point of my post. When white yahoos carry guns it's okay. When black activists carry them, they change the law because no one really wants anyone to have open carry privileges for anyone except for white men.

[former9thward]

119. Yes, it was a direct result of the Panthers.

Although to be fair it was a different time. Police were getting killed in Panther gun battles and Panthers were getting killed. I want everyone to have open carry. I never do it because I don't see the point of it. But then I don't see the point of a lot of things.



Members of the Huey P Newton Gun Club stand with long guns at the Texas Capitol on March 16, 2015



May 2, 1967 Black Panthers at Capitol in Sacramento.

[jeff47]

12. I've always argued the fastest way to enacting gun control legislation

would be to hand out assault rifles to minorities.

The "2nd Amendment absolutists" would suddenly change their toon.

[virtualobserver]

22. Huey P. Newton Gun Club

[Nuclear Unicorn]

31. And yet, my absolutust support for the 2A remains unchanged

in spite of prior estimations to the contrary. It's almost as if I support the RKBA for all people as an inalienable right.

[Eleanors38]

80. Photoshopped, I tell you, Photoshopped!! They're Alive!! They're Alive!!

[d_legendary1]

96. Oddly enough the NRA favored gun control in the late 1960's

when a group of African Americans known as the Black Panthers armed themselves and went into the California Statehouse. Even Ronnie Raygun said, "There’s no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons."

http://www.salon.com/2013/01/14/the_nra_once_supported_gun_control/

Now a days they just open fire.

[Solly Mack]

13. per CBS: they claim they were hired to "protect reporters" for (Alex Jones/InfoWars)

Instead, they said they were members of the Oath Keepers, and claimed to have been hired to protect reporters working for InfoWars.com, a website run by radio host and conspiracy theorist Alex Jones.

It's like hiring the Klan to act as bodyguards.

Also...

In a statement, St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar called their presence "both unnecessary and inflammatory." St. Louis County police and prosecutors told CBS News said they would consult about the legality of openly displaying the weapons during a state of emergency, which had been declared Monday after violence rocked Ferguson during protests the previous evening

Shouldn't they already know what the protocol is for declaring a state of emergency? And what is and isn't allowed?


It's like you said, had it been African-Americans carrying rifles during a SoE ...

[malaise]

16. So now African-Americans must fear not only the racist police

but the fugging KLAN by whatever name. And the police do nothing. That is the meaning of racist terrorism.

[Solly Mack]

23. Exactly. :(

[jtuck004]

41. You are wrong. The police didn't "do nothing". They welcomed them, saw them as

brothers-in-arms, and protected them while shooting a resident who might have been innocent. (The police have had body cameras for a year, but the little detail that shot that fella just happened to not have them).

It's a modern plantation, where the chains are replaced with control of one's mind.

[haikugal]

54. Oath keepers are military and law enforcement....

oathkeepers.org/
Into this agenda-mandated leadership void stepped Oath Keepers, a national organization of current and retired military and law enforcement personnel.
‎About - ‎Community Preparedness Team - ‎ByLaws - ‎Academy

http://oathkeepers.org

They are very RWReligious too....anyway, here more from Mother Jones shortly after they organized.

Photos by Lucian Read.
THE .50 CALIBER Bushmaster bolt action rifle is a serious weapon. The model that Pvt. 1st Class Lee Pray is saving up for has a 2,500-yard range and comes with a Mark IV scope and an easy-load magazine. When the 25-year-old drove me to a mall in Watertown, New York, near the Fort Drum Army base, he brought me to see it in its glass case—he visits it periodically, like a kid coveting something at the toy store. It'll take plenty of military paychecks to cover the $5,600 price tag, but he considers the Bushmaster essential in his preparations to take on the US government when it declares martial law.

His belief that that day is imminent has led Pray to a group called Oath Keepers, one of the fastest-growing "patriot" organizations on the right. Founded last April by Yale-educated lawyer and ex-Ron Paul aide Stewart Rhodes, the group has established itself as a hub in the sprawling anti-Obama movement that includes Tea Partiers, Birthers, and 912ers. Glenn Beck, Lou Dobbs, and Pat Buchanan have all sung its praises, and in December, a grassroots summit it helped organize drew such prominent guests as representatives Phil Gingrey and Paul Broun, both Georgia Republicans.

There are scores of patriot groups, but what makes Oath Keepers unique is that its core membership consists of men and women in uniform, including soldiers, police, and veterans. At regular ceremonies in every state, members reaffirm their official oaths of service, pledging to protect the Constitution—but then they go a step further, vowing to disobey "unconstitutional" orders from what they view as an increasingly tyrannical government.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2010/03/oath-keepers

[Cleita]

65. They are still a right wing vigilante group, who ordinarily target

Mexicans on the border, but I guess African Americans are a ripe target for them too. As a Latina if I founded an organization of gun toting vigilantes, we'd be called a gang and would be considered criminals.

[haikugal]

69. My post was in no way supportive of them Cleita.

They are hideous. It was information and part of an explaination for why they suddenly made an appearence....I think they were called in by the police. The explaination that Alex Jones hired them doesn't hold water in my view.

on edit...to include...

You are correct, you and your people would be called a criminal gang. It's horrific what's happening and it has to stop. We have to stop it!!!

[Cleita]

72. I didn't think you were supportive.

I just wanted to clarify a bit in case others thought they were upstanding citizens.

[haikugal]

79. Ah....so it is!!!

[malaise]

91. Excellent point

[staggerleem]

63. What do you mean by "So now ..."?

Are you trying to say that PoC did NOT have to be afraid of the Klan (and their fellow-travelers) prior to this?

Seems to me that has been the situation forever, but it has gotten much worse since "one of them" landed in the White House.

[malaise]

93. Valid point

[Eleanors38]

81. And the Deacon For Defense did what? nt

[951-Riverside]

21. Infowars "reporter" Joe Biggs

Just reportin' in front of a Mosque in Phoenix Arizona earlier this year


Source: https://twitter.com/rambobiggs/status/604535947644903424

And yes this group is traveling the same "Reporter"

https://twitter.com/TreyYingst/status/630985648640552960

And here is the founder of Infowars Alex Jones bullying the Dad of a mass shooting victim and physically challenging him to a fight

?t=317

(Fast forward to 5:16)

They are an absolutely disgusting bunch

[Solly Mack]

27. The Oath Keepers were in Ferguson last year as well.

They positioned themselves on rooftops with rifles.

Disgusting is being kind.

[951-Riverside]

35. My post was primarily about Infowars and their rifle toting "Reporter" but I agree with you

OTOH Infowars takes it to a whole new level by inserting a heavily armed guy calling himself a reporter in with legitimate reporters.



^ Infowars "Reporter" Joe Biggs ^



If a shooting starts, this asshole and everyone around him risk getting hit by police who might mistake them for shooters.

Its one thing to have a fat gut bubba protecting a private business on private property, its another thing to have this armed loser wearing a bullproof vest and a bunch of other heavily armed losers insert themselves in with a crowd of citizens and reporters.

These infowars assholes are making it very difficult for "mainstream" and indie reporters to do their job covering this and it makes me MAD!

[Fred Sanders]

75. It is information war, and the mass media does not care to become involved, hence the TrumpAThon.

A black man brave enough to do the exact same identical pretending to be a reporter while armed thing....that would be news, wouldn't it?

When is not covering news going to be the news?

[Hoyt]

14. Very True. Juries seem to accept the premise that white folks can be in fear of their life just

seeing a Black man approaching them. Christ, can you image what it would be like if white folks -- police or just so-called responsible gun toters -- could say, "I was scared to death, ater all he was Black . . . . . and he had a gun." And they would say just that too.

I think I read where the Oath Keepers (New Ku Klux Klan) were at Ferguson.

[malaise]

20. And the police did nothing

reminds me of the Feds and the Bundy thugs.

[Hoyt]

25. Don't get me started on Cliven's bunch. Sooner or later, government is going to have to do something

[Nuclear Unicorn]

33. You have such a fevered imagination.

[Hoyt]

37. Your love of gunz blur the truth.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

40. Says the guy who got all nasty rather than admit he was wrong about BGC being destroyed after 24 hrs

[Hoyt]

43. I think you've been smelling too much gun blue.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

47. You want me to drag your dirty laundry out for everyone to see?

They can see how you rabidly denied BGC forms were destroyed and the more you pressed the point the nastier you got and then, when confronted with the fact from a pro-gun control website you quit the thread.

I have no problem doing it.

[Hoyt]

90. Please do, if you can. Don't see what it has to do with yahoos and their gun love.

and their racist intimidation in Ferguson.

But, go ahead.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

99. What it has to do with anything is the fact you make things up

[Hoyt]

103. So? You support white folks toting gunz. Show it.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

106. I support the right to RKBA regardless of race. The only make it about race is you.

This is why you have no credibility. Here I am stating an easily proven fact --

NICS BCs are not recorded. You cannot prove or disprove a private citizen obtained a BC via FFL.

Here is you disputing this very basic fact --

FFL maintains documentation under federal law. You need to check up on the gun laws.

Ignorance of the law is not a defense, although most of the gunners I've met would not have a hard time convincing the jury of their challenges.

And of course you just had to be as insulting as possible.

I replied --

They track sales, not BCs.

You again with error reinforced by insult --

You really need to review the law and what an FFL must keep. Typical gunner crud is all you have.

I guess it's not enough for you to just be wrong, you have to be an obnoxious ass and wrong

Here is a pro-gun control site bemoaning the fact that approved BCs have to be destroyed after 24 hours. They also lament the BC form doesn't record the weapon being purchased. That underscores my original point that BCs performed exclusively by FFLs will have no additional benefit.

http://smartgunlaws.org/maintaining-gun-sales-background-check-records-policy-summary/

If you had an ounce of integrity you would admit your attitude was little more than you projecting.

Your apparent need to insult and belittle people to support your biases kinda makes it hard to take your seriously whenever you scream "WHITE SUPREMACISM!" -- which is every time. You should strive towards a little integrity before attempting serious topics.

[Hoyt]

109. Nope, I was right and you wrong. You should have checked with your gun dealing buddies in Gungeon.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/10/robert-farago/universal-background-checks-for-dummies/


"The dealer also records all information from the Form 4473 into a required "bound-book".[3] A dealer must keep this on file at least 20 years, and is required to surrender the log to the ATF upon retirement from the firearms business. The ATF is allowed to inspect, as well as request a copy of, the Form 4473 from the dealer during the course of a criminal investigation. In addition, the sale of two or more handguns to a person in a five-day period must be reported to ATF on Form 3310.4."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Form_4473

I hope to heck your are more careful when carrying your gunz.

I await your apology.

Besides it has absolutely nothing to do with the racist gun toters in Ferguson who are allowed to walk around with the damn things.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

110. I think you're referring to denied checks. Permitted checks are destroyed --

Destruction of Records on Allowed Transfers and Permit Checks

The regulations require any personally identifying information in the NICS database related to allowed transfers to be destroyed within 24 hours after a licensee receives notice that the gun transfer may proceed. The system may retain all other information (except the NICS transaction and date) on allowed transfers for up to 90 days from the date of the inquiry (28 CFR § 25.9(b)(1)(iii)). The regulations are silent on the issue of information in the database relating to permit checks. But a 2005 Government Accountability Office (GAO) report notes that according to the FBI's NICS section, the 24-hour destruction requirement for personally identifying information “does not apply to permit checks. Rather, information related to permit checks is maintained in the NICS database for up to 90 days after the background check is initiated” (Gun Control and Terrorism, GAO-05-127, p. 32).

Also, according to the GAO report, NICS internally classifies a transaction as open if staff cannot make a final determination (i.e., allowed or denied) on a transaction within three business days. The system maintains personally identifying information and other details related to open transactions until either (1) a final determination is made or (2) the retention period for open transactions expires, no more than 90 days (id. at p. 32).

Destruction of NICS Records on Denied Gun Transactions

The regulations require that personally identifying information and other details related to denied firearms transactions be retained indefinitely. According to the regulations:

The NICS will retain NICS Index records that indicate that receipt of a firearm by the individuals to whom the records pertain would violate Federal or state law. The NICS will retain such records indefinitely, unless they are canceled by the originating agency. In cases where a firearms disability is not permanent, e.g., a disqualifying restraining order, the NICS will automatically purge the pertinent record when it is not longer disqualifying. . . (28 CFR § 25.9(a)).

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2007/rpt/2007-R-0500.htm

[Hoyt]

114. Nope, the DEALER has to keep information on the sale, and consequently the BGC. Read.

Since the government has a record of the gun manufacture and the dealer the manufacturer sold it to, the ATF can go straight to the dealer to make sure they have kept the required information.

You are mixed up. Don't know what you are trying to prove, but you haven't.

[Lee-Lee]

117. You are only partially correct

Dealers must keep records, yes. Of the sale. Not all sales require background checks, they either document there was a BG check done or the reason it wasn't.

However, they can only trace from the manufacturer on the first sale of a new gun.

Just a few months ago I bought my dad a 40 year old shotgun at a dealer as a gift for his birthday. Who knows how many dealers that has been bought or sold at, but if they went to Mossberg and asked for records they would at best get a record to a shop that sold it 40 years ago and is probably long gone.

I filled out the form 4473, and it will be on file. But the only people who know the 4473 for that shotgun is at that gun shop are me and the dealer. I was exempt for the background check since I have a CCW, but had they called one in any record of that would have been destroyed in 24 hours, leaving the federal government with no record i had purchased a gun that day.

The vast majority of guns sold are used guns, and it goes just like that. On a fairly "young" gun they can usually trace from owner to shop to owner and track history, but when you get one a few decades old that most likely isn't happening.

[Hoyt]

118. And that's the problem that started the debate months agi with the gun fancier above.

What do you think of racist oath keepers walking around armed in Ferguson?

[Lee-Lee]

122. They are idiots

Out to get attention and stir shit.

That's my opinion of most open carry activists. I don't have a problem with regular open carry although I prefer concealed myself. When I was a deputy I worked in a rural county where farmers as often as not had a pistol on their hip on a daily basis for snakes or wild dogs, so you saw it every day- in fact in NC open carry has been law of the land for better than 50 years with no real problems.

If they were in NC and I was still an officer I would arrest them for violating a nice law we have called "Going armed at the terror of the public". The DA's may drop it because it's a harder one to prosecute, but they can post bond and let their guns sit in evidence until the case is finished. It's a nice law to single out those who open carry for the purpose of stirring shit.

[Hoyt]

123. I like that. I have no problem with a farmer walking around with a gun,

on their property. My granddad sometimes carried a 22 long barreled pistol on his small dairy farm. But, he took it off when he went into the city. I wish I had it one time when I was walking to the out-house.

[Peacetrain]

15. If that were four African Americans.. armed like that..

they would have disappeared into the back of some paddy wagon and taken to jail.. you can take that one to the the bank.. I just saw that on TV.. what a nightmarish scenario..

[malaise]

18. I suspect they would have been on the way to the morgue n/t

[Peacetrain]

24. Or that too.. I just can't let myself go there

[restorefreedom]

39. sadly , very likely. nt

[Eleanors38]

84. See #22. Still on the street.nt

[safeinOhio]

19. More evidence

[malaise]

26. He's lucky they didn't kill him with his own weapon

and call it suicide.

Truthfully I'd ban every one of those weapons

[safeinOhio]

28. If they can't treat everyone the same under a law

that law needs to go.

Strange how all of the gun advocates claim that gun restrictions are racist. This pretty much proves, it's not the laws, its how they are enforced. They will always be enforced unfairly.

[mmonk]

29. In the minds of those that are obssessed with it, yes.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

30. Huey P. Newton Gun Club

[Lee-Lee]

34. In the 1960's the civil rights movement actually worked with the NRA here in NC

http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/negroeswithguns/rob.html

Somewhere along the lines the narrative was allowed to build up that the only blacks with guns were criminals and thugs. Racist gun control laws in many states that kept law abiding minorities from buying guns is probably partially to blame as well, since the effect was only those willing to break the law were armed.

And later that belief morphed into minority communities often adopting the belief that guns for self defense were not for them- exactly what the white controlled system wanted.

I encourage all minorities in this nation who are legally allowed to become safe, educated, lawful gun owners. Break the stereotype pushed down by the white majority that the only armed minorities are criminals.

[JackInGreen]

36. I screamed so loud at the tv

I frightenend some homeless folks out of my loading dock. This is madness. The civis with their skivvies up their livies need to get their teabagging high powered assault weapon toting asses out of there before one of the trigger happy fucktarded shit-baskets starts a miniature (or not) race war.

Why didn't the cops clear them the hell out of there? We know they'll draw down on anyone. This is too much.

[Hekate]

38. Why yes, yes it is.

Don't even need a sarcasm tag, do I? Words just fail me.

[Bluenorthwest]

42. Read up on the Black Panther Party for Self Defense taking a trip to the State Capitol...

http://xroads.virginia.edu/~ug01/barillari/pantherprologue.html

http://www.pbs.org/hueypnewton/actions/actions_capitolmarch.html

[hamsterjill]

45. As a Texan who is just beginning to see "open carry", it all scares the hell out of me.

I'm opposed to open carry. I'm opposed to concealed carry, pretty much, too.

Open carry, to me, is bragging. It's volatile. It's DARING someone to do something. Asking for trouble. It's a bunch of idiots who think they are tough, who don't have any real idea of just what happens when the shit hits the fan. Acting big is one thing. Killing someone is quite another.

I'd have a little better feeling about concealed carry if I honestly felt there was enough training and instruction and background checking necessary to obtain a concealed permit.

Guns are not going to be the answer to any of this.

[gordianot]

46. You are 100% correct. Not only carnage but a return of the National Guard.

On a national scale it would become martial law and not one single shot would have to be fired. In addition the NRA would have to close shop and white people would also get their firearms confiscated.

[ileus]

48. 2A rights are for everyone...

There's really no reason the black protesters couldn't have OCd the same firearms.

[Zorra]

50. Yes, and the 1% intends to make damn sure it stays this way.

White supremacists are another safeguard that the 1% uses to prevent and/or contain revolution.

Who has the overwhelming majority percentage of the guns among the general populace?

Yep, that's correct. Merle, Vern, and Cliven.

And, as we saw in Ferguson, ol' Merle, Vern, and Cliven ain't gonna side with racial minorites, gays, and them pinko liberal commie envirowackos if they start's gettin' too uppity.

We really need to unite all minorities and all the democratic left, instead of this useless tearing each other down while the 1% establishment drinks our tears and smacks their lips as Smedley the English butler takes the limo for a nice drive to make another deposit at the bank.

[senz]

68. "White supremacists are another safeguard that the 1% uses to prevent and/or contain revolution."

Wow, thank you, Zorra. It never occurred to me but as soon as I read this, I realized it's true. And I am POSITIVE that there are guys behind big shiny desks who know it, promote it, and use it. That's what rightwing think tanks are for.

See, for me this is one more reason to vote for Bernie.

Thank you again, Zorra.

[haikugal]

76. YES!!!!!

Tell it, this is the whole deal...they want it, they need it, they're paying for it!!!! Everybody get together now, smile on your brother!!

We can do this but it won't be easy. They'll make us pay in so many ways but we can't quit or lose heart.

Good post Zorra, thanks!!

[angrychair]

108. I despise OC and CC even more

Last thing I want is some gun "lover" deciding he needs to settle his arguments "the old fashioned way". I never even want to talk to someone that has a gun on them...just find the arrogance of someone assuming I will trust them with my life on their word alone that they are "a good guy with a gun" as assuming to much....no matter how well I know them.

[Rex]

55. Firearms are for white men, conservative and True Christian(tm) by upbringing. Tea baggers.

ANYONE ELSE (yes that means the dirty WHITE hippies) anyone else is a deviant and needs to be monitored and perhaps locked up. For the safety of everyone around them, you see.

BLACK people with guns! Black people!?!?

[valerief]

56. I think Open Carry s/b banned for everyone and Open Dick s/b mandatory.

We'd see who was the tough guy then.

[Cleita]

66. LOL!

Are you referring to the theory that a guy's penis is the reverse size of the size of his gun? Yeah it would be fun to put that theory to the test with such an experiment. May I volunteer to carry the measuring tape.

[senz]

85. SO MUCH truth to this.

[jwirr]

57. Your last sentence explains the whole thing. The marchers in Ferguson MO know that so they

do not march with guns even if they own them. They do not give the cops an excuse for a massacre.

On the other hand the cops knew that the Oath Keepers if challenged would not hesitate to open fire and that it did not matter to the OK who they were shooting at - cops or marchers. In fact it is likely that the OK came to start something not to keep the peace. Just like the did at the Clive Bundy ranch.

For once sanity ruled in dealing with this kind of idiots. Unfortunately I expect more self-righteous vigilante groups to try the same thing now.

[Jack Rabbit]

58. The short answer to your question would appear to be "Yes"

Mr. LaPierre is either a racist who figured his "good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun" mantra means somebody has to decide who is the good guy with a gun and that good guys are white rednecks loaded on crystal meth and a six pack of beer, or he's an idiot who didn't think that far ahead and was just doing his job, viz., bribing legislative bodies into writing gun friendly laws that, without something to determine who is a good guy and who is a bad guy, and that simply arming everybody is only going to leave a lot of dead people in the streets and otherwise let God sort them out.

If the authorities in St. Louis County think these aging white punks on dope brandishing assault weapons are the good guys with guns, then I have a difference of opinion with.

I want to see the cops out there tonight running these assholes out of town.

[Darb]

60. Where on god's green earth are the usual gun worshipers?

You know the ones, the lurkers who come out only to pretend they have unrestricted rights to act like children when it comes to their toys? Their gun toys.

Just as I thought, they have more in common with the fundies, and the Repubes, and the fascists on the supreme court than just being in love with their long, hard metal objects. Any guess what that is?

I'd tell you but the whines (alerts) would come in a flash. But the overlap is obvious, or they would be here spewing.

[Eleanors38]

67. If you are the least bit interested, Google Huey P. Newton Gun Club pictures...

They have been in the streets for a while, and no one has gone "carnage" on them. They are from the People's Republic of Texas.

[senz]

70. K&R This thread is GREAT.

[stone space]

78. Open Carry is for Terrorists. (nt)

[Eleanors38]

86. Does that include the Deacons for Defense? Newton Gun Club?

[Hoyt]

94. Are you equating your reasons for gun toting to theirs?

[Eleanors38]

105. Nope.

[stone space]

115. Are you Black? (nt)

[Eleanors38]

157. Nope.

[stone space]

144. Next step for them is to throw out MLK as a voice for MOAR GUNZ!

That's their usual MO.

[Hoyt]

150. LMAO. Used to see it in the Gungeon.

[Eleanors38]

159. MLK didn't need a gun. His backers had plenty. nt

[951-Riverside]

100. The 2nd amendment was written by terrorists, slave owners and genocidal maniacs (nt)

[senz]

82. Some of us consider big guns to be phallic substitutes

and, connecting the dots, this could throw additional light onto the white supremacist movement and their fear of armed black men.

It's amazing how many things can be traced down to the most basic of human animal motivations.

This is also an argument for finding better ways to raise and support boys into strong, good, honorable manhood. So that they wouldn't grow into "men" who need to dominate and bully those who are different from themselves.

Depressing. The human race has a long way to go before we reach "sapiens."

[RufusTFirefly]

83. This is America, Dude. Learn the rules!

[Eleanors38]

102. I hope you read up on the Deacons for Defense, for your answer.

They seem to have come out alright against a FAR more aggressive & entrenched racist power structure when the Jim (large, raucous black bird) laws were not on their side. I note the HP Newton GC is still avoiding "carnage."

[ariesgem]

121. White guy open carries vs a black guy...

[Lee-Lee]

124. Of course this video doesn't really prove anything

Notice how the officers in the two scenes had totally different uniforms.

That shows they were from two different departments.

Unless we know what the protocols and SOP's for each agency are on how to deal with people with guns, we can't say for sure if this is actually a racist response, or just differing agencies reacting as the department dictates.

Had they run the scenario with the same department both times, then they might have something if they got a different response. But they didn't. Why? Who knows. Maybe they were not smart enough to know that comparing the responses of two totally different agencies isn't a valid experiment. Maybe they knew just what they were doing to get the response they wanted by shifting jurisdictions. Maybe they had a lot more encounters and they cherry picked the two that proved the point they wanted to make.

But to anyone with any critical thinking skills claiming that different responses from two totally different police departments, in different jurisdictions, that have different procedures and SOP's proves racism is just a load of horseshit.

[ariesgem]

138. "racism is a load of horseshit"

Racism is INGRAINED in policing. I don't give a fuk what "department they came from" as you put it.... As a black person, you cannot tell me otherwise.

[Lee-Lee]

139. I see you can't dispute what I said so you

Put words in my mouth with a fabricated quote.

What I said is a video from two different agencies showing two different responses doesn't prove anything.

Had the makers of the video actually wanted to make a video with actual example of racism at work they needed at a minimum to do it with the same department.

[spanone]

125. K&R...

[Skidmore]

126. Since Oath Keepers are largely made up ex-law enforcement and military men,

I truly see them as the vigilante arm of the police who appear willing to tolerate their presence without too much of a whimper.

[TeddyR]

127. So

Other than hyperbole, is there any evidence that open carry would have led to "carnage" in Ferguson? Though it may have happened, I've never seen a story about "carnage" resulting from open carry, regardless of the race of the individual.

Setting aside that little fact, OC is a silly law that I don't support. Does nothing but inflame passion, and concealed carry serves the same purpose without raising pulses. And of course the Second Amendment protects the right of every individual to keep and bear arms, regardless of the race of the individual exercising that right.

[virgogal]

129. Why would you say that? Armed blacks marched without incident

in Austin last spring.

[hifiguy]

130. In most places, I would bet that the life-expectancy of a law-abiding black male

openly carrying a firearm in accordance with all applicable statutes and ordinances would be about fifteen minutes - as much time as it took the kkkops to show up and blow him to kingdom come.

[TeddyR]

131. I'll call your bet

Stats or sources? Or are you just making this up. Political conversation should be based on more than your feelings.

[Enthusiast]

132. If I was a black man I would be ultra cautious about open carrying.

Law enforcement is not playing fair and they're quick to pull the trigger. On the other hand very dangerous reactionary white men are allowed to carry openly with few repercussions.

[aikoaiko]

133. Nope. Its for all people.

[Blue_Tires]

134. Different rules for white folks

I also believe a lot of higher-ups are silently hoping a real battle *does* break out...From their perspective it will eliminate TWO problems, and the primetime ratings would be higher than Sunday Night Football...

[uponit7771]

135. +1

[Duppers]

136. Exactly what the hubs and i were saying

this evening.

Great post & thread.

[artislife]

137. Pretty much

[MH1]

140. Thank you for correct use of the expression "white supremacist".

And yes, it seems to me that open carry is generally only considered okay when the carrier is white.

There are many reasons to oppose open carry and this is one of them.

[Vinca]

141. I've always said the way to change gun laws in this country is for black men to follow them.

Of course, they'd be risking their lives to open carry. I've never understood why I shouldn't be afraid of a white guy with a gun, but that's the general consensus in Crazyville.

[Lee-Lee]

142. It's the legacy of white supremacy that taught you guns are only for whites

In the south and much of the rest of the country gun control laws were aimed specifically at keeping blacks unarmed.

Hell, here in NC we still have our Jim Crow pistol purchase permit system on the books that allowed a sheriff to arbitrarily deny anyone the ability to buy a handgun based on his assessment of their "moral character", and of course that standard got harder to meet as your skin grew darker.

So the white majority in power denied blacks the ability to arm themselves. That led to only those willing to break the law having guns. That led to the cultural bias that any black person with a gun was bad.

And that cultural bias still sticks- even in minority communities.

[Vinca]

143. I was never taught guns are only for whites.

I was taught guns are for deer hunting.

[Paladin]

149. FYI, that makes you a "Fudd."

That's the insulting term that is used by gun militants against those who view firearms in a traditional manner, i.e., as instruments that have uses beyond killing other human beings. I wear the designation as a badge of honor, and I respectfully suggest you do likewise.

[Vinca]

155. I hadn't heard that one . . . I'll be a proud "Fudd." LOL.

[malaise]

146. Very good post

Institutional racism is live and well.

[NCTraveler]

145. Open Carry, Peaceful Civil Disobedience, among many other aspects of society...

Last edited Wed Aug 12, 2015, 11:19 AM - Edit history (1)

and how they are viewed being done by different people, is a direct reflection of white privilege.

[Paladin]

148. Precisely.

Our resident gun militants can try all the tired old deflection maneuvers they want, but it doesn't change the fact that those armed white guys strutting around Ferguson are engaged in racial intimidation, pure and simple. As is so often the case with the radical right wing, they're using the Bill Of Rights for toilet paper.

[stone space]

161. Many of our resident RKBAers here at DU are Zimmerman supporters.

And the ones who don't come out openly for Zimmerman tolerate their presence and their bullying.

[Warpy]

152. Sure looks that way

but those goobers should have been hauled off for inciting riot.

Open carry is for NO ONE, IMO. It's intimidation, at best, and none of us needs that in our lives.

[Mr Dixon]

153. No explanation required

This the foundation of this society, meaning keep minorities in their place.

[Eleanors38]

160. So, please answer your own question: "Is Open Carry for whites only?"

It appears you steadfastly duck away from your own question, preferring the usual echo chamber of the gun banners.

My take is that the RKBA has never been more secure for blacks than it is now, and more and more blacks are taking advantage of the right to self-defense (examples of OC have been provided you, and there are more to break down the Narrative®).

So what is the answer to your own question?