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Wed Aug 12, 2015, 03:27 AM

I am happy Bernie Sanders added a Racism and Racial Justice plank...however

I know we will never achieve racial justice without economic justice, and the dismal statistics tend to affirm my position. Stated simply, the groups on the bottom of the economic scale are the same groups who are being arrested, convicted, killed by police, and incarcerated at the highest rates.
I am very happy Bernie addressed the issue as he did, however, even THAT doesn't seem to satisfy some people.

Let's be honest: Some lives really do not matter in America, and never have. And that is apparent by every economic and social measure. BLM is long overdue, and while I am excited to see this movement emerging, and I hope it will continue to evolve and expand, and mature.

Without Economic and Educational Justice, There Is No Racial Justice

REILLY MORSE JULY 3, 2014
A half-century after Freedom Summer, African Americans continue to face severe barriers not just to voting, but also to economic security.

On a hot, dusty June day fifty years ago, during what became known as Freedom Summer, college students began to arrive in Mississippi—then the most closed society in America—to help register black residents to vote. Three civil rights workers were brutally murdered, a trauma that pierced the heart of our nation and thrust into the open the racist oppression of black political rights by Mississippi’s leaders.

Since that momentous summer, our country has made great strides to extend civil and political rights to all Americans regardless of race. Still, African Americans today face obstacles just as real as poll taxes and segregated restrooms; the difference is that these obstacles are now embedded in our institutions and social structures instead of being posted on public walls.

The reality is that, a half-century after Freedom Summer, African Americans continue to face severe barriers not just to voting but also to economic security. In fact, on the economic front, some indicators have even gotten worse and problems more entrenched in recent decades. The gap between black and white household incomes, for example, is actually wider today than it was in the mid-1960s. So if the primary Civil Rights struggle 50 years ago was for basic political rights, today it is for equal access to the ladder of economic mobility.

A key factor behind persistent racial inequality involves the failures of our education system. While African Americans may no longer be barred from attending school with white children, they still face disproportionate challenges in accessing the quality education that is a stepping stone to a decent life in America. One example is that black students today must survive a climate of punitive and discriminatory discipline that unfairly pushes them out of school and into the criminal justice system. Only last year, a sweeping federal settlement of charges of discriminatory discipline was finalized in the town of Meridian—the same town from which the three murdered civil rights workers left in 1964 on their final day of advocacy. Continued support is needed for such efforts to interrupt the school-to-prison pipeline.

http://prospect.org/article/without-economic-and-educational-justice-there-no-racial-justice

Here you can find some charts on inequality:
http://inequality.org/racial-inequality/

Race, Class, and Economic Justice
http://www.civilrights.org/resources/civilrights101/

These Eight Charts Show Why Racial Equality Is a Myth in America
http://billmoyers.com/2014/05/22/these-eight-charts-show-why-racial-equality-is-a-myth-in-america/

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Reply I am happy Bernie Sanders added a Racism and Racial Justice plank...however (Original post)
noiretextatique Aug 2015 OP
daredtowork Aug 2015 #1
merrily Aug 2015 #2
noiretextatique Aug 2015 #3
merrily Aug 2015 #4
noiretextatique Aug 2015 #10
merrily Aug 2015 #11
Spacedog1973 Aug 2015 #5
merrily Aug 2015 #6
nomorenomore08 Aug 2015 #8
merrily Aug 2015 #12
Spacedog1973 Aug 2015 #13
noiretextatique Aug 2015 #16
nomorenomore08 Aug 2015 #17
noiretextatique Aug 2015 #23
OneGrassRoot Aug 2015 #20
azurnoir Aug 2015 #7
Joe Chi Minh Aug 2015 #9
Demeter Aug 2015 #14
noiretextatique Aug 2015 #15
Spacedog1973 Aug 2015 #31
noiretextatique Aug 2015 #32
daleanime Aug 2015 #18
OneGrassRoot Aug 2015 #19
noiretextatique Aug 2015 #22
OneGrassRoot Aug 2015 #24
noiretextatique Aug 2015 #25
OneGrassRoot Aug 2015 #28
noiretextatique Aug 2015 #29
passiveporcupine Aug 2015 #35
OneGrassRoot Aug 2015 #36
99th_Monkey Aug 2015 #21
Waiting For Everyman Aug 2015 #26
aikoaiko Aug 2015 #27
noiretextatique Aug 2015 #30
Catherina Aug 2015 #33
historylovr Aug 2015 #34

Response to noiretextatique (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 03:51 AM

1. Yep. nt

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Response to noiretextatique (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 03:56 AM

2. We all need both, racial justice and economic justice.

Government cannot eliminate bigotry, but government racism has got to go. De jure is gone, but de facto must die as well. Bernie is careful to refer to "institutional racism." I think that is because he knows some private individuals are going to be bigots, no matter what, but that's only my interpretation. I don't pretend to speak for him.

However, when government cleans up its act and prominent politicians speak loudly and clearly, the zeitgeist shifts. We saw that after enactment of the Civil Rights Act and after Obama said he was for equal marriage.

I believe Bernie when he says no President will work harder to eliminate institutional racism. I believed that before he added his plank, because of who he is and what he was saying and doing before adding the plank. He spoke out against militarization of police, incarceration, the vote, etc, well before the BLM demonstrations. However, planks are good too. Everything that pushes all of us in a good direction is good.

I am not a churchgoer, but I did have to laugh when I heard this from a televangelist. Something like "Every time you get a charitable impulse, act on it because that God is speaking to you: You know you'd never do that on your own." (His words were punchier than mine, but I don't remember them--and yes, cynics, I totally got why he said it. Try to lighten up for a second.)

It's not entirely true, but there was enough truth about our egocentric natures to make it funny to me. Point is, whatever prods us to do good is probably both good and needed.

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Response to merrily (Reply #2)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 04:06 AM

3. i cannot disagree

but my post IS about institutional racism too. the persistent and dismal economic disparities are also institutional. but i do here you: and the justice system needs a complete overhaul.

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Response to noiretextatique (Reply #3)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 04:15 AM

4. I hear you, too. I always have--and it's been my privilege.

I was simply offering my own thoughts.

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Response to merrily (Reply #4)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 04:47 AM

10. Thanks, merrily

I always appreciate your posts

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Response to noiretextatique (Reply #10)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 04:48 AM

11. Thank you.

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Response to merrily (Reply #2)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 04:21 AM

5. Institutional racism

Isn't a phrase Bernie coined but an existing description of a form of racism which permeates within our institutions sometimes by design, often due to exclusivity which occur due to a lack of diversity. It often indeed mostly doesn't involve bigots but the net result of systems of inequity.

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Response to Spacedog1973 (Reply #5)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 04:27 AM

6. Thank you. I know Bernie did not coin that phrase.

When I said "Bernie calls it institutional racism," I meant only that Bernie has been relatively consistent in using that term (rather than simply "racism", when he promises to work hard for its elimination.

Because of your comment, I edited my post some. Maybe it now reflects my thinking more clearly.

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Response to Spacedog1973 (Reply #5)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 04:38 AM

8. It is partly individual, though. Lots of people being "just a little bit racist" - consciously or no

- adds up, ultimately, to the sort of mass inequality we're talking about here.

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Response to nomorenomore08 (Reply #8)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 04:50 AM

12. True, but government can deal with institutional racism better than it can deal with

"hearts and minds." Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere has proven that.

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Response to nomorenomore08 (Reply #8)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 05:03 AM

13. Thats simply racism

I think we need to get away from the Klansman type being the purest form of racism, but rather those little injuries are the main source of racism that minority groups experience daily. Often it's due to social programming, personal ignorance of its harm or direct racism and yes their presence in all walks of society, work, colleges and leisure areas will affect how people of color will experience them.

However I wouldn't describe this effect as institutional. Institutional as an example would be a swimming pool that didn't have a women only day or time or pool. That would affect Muslim women being able to access it. Or a company that recruits most of its staff through word of mouth, but their existing staff are white middle class men who live in segregated communities. The impact would be low BME staff recruited.

Just a few examples of one form of it.

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Response to nomorenomore08 (Reply #8)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 05:28 AM

16. Individual racism is institutional when backed by a system

Last edited Wed Aug 12, 2015, 11:03 AM - Edit history (1)

The cop who stopped Sandra Bland is an example. He probably profiled her, something the system allows, but his attitude towards her seemed racist to me. She died as a result of his "agressive arrest" and the system refused to hold him or anyone else accountable. It may hurt if someone yells the n word at me, but I could die if I run into a racist cop. It is the individual attitudes, backed by power, that is killing us.

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Response to noiretextatique (Reply #16)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 05:43 AM

17. Agreed. This is all far more powerful and pervasive than individual fear or hate could ever be. n/t

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Response to nomorenomore08 (Reply #17)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 11:06 AM

23. Yes...it is

It is a reality for too many americans these days.

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Response to noiretextatique (Reply #16)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 06:07 AM

20. Well said. n/t

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Response to noiretextatique (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 04:33 AM

7. Thank you everything you said here is very true

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Response to noiretextatique (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 04:45 AM

9. Wise words, if I may say so.

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Response to noiretextatique (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 05:09 AM

14. In this 1% Age, MOST Lives Don't Matter!

 

This is why the guillotine was invented and used....to be a more humane (not to mention faster) means of execution.

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Response to Demeter (Reply #14)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 05:20 AM

15. Economic justice is a unifying message

It is something that affects the 99%. I do not think that message excludes anyone...except those who want to be excluded.

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Response to noiretextatique (Reply #15)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 03:39 PM

31. Nobody wants to be excluded from equity

Whilst economic Justice obviously affects 99% of people, racism effects people regardless of their economic status. It affects Obama. It affects rich black athletes and movie stars and comedians. Economic justice by itself cannot deal with a system that doesn't value black lives period.

Or perhaps they just enjoy being profiled in their sports cars.

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Response to Spacedog1973 (Reply #31)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 08:09 PM

32. yeah, i know, since i am black

and as i said: economic justice is unifying message, one that one way, shape or form excludes, diminishes or disses racial or social justice. the two are inextricably joined. and i will repeat again: only those who choose to nitpick do not grasp this.

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Response to noiretextatique (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 05:53 AM

18. K&R....

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Response to noiretextatique (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 06:02 AM

19. Here is a quote which addresses this well, to me...

Undoubtedly they are intertwined. Absolutely, positively.

Yet I will also highlight the urgency of people literally being murdered due to the color of their skin.


"Regarding economic justice) some people, when they hear this, immediately respond that of course economic inequality has racism embedded in it. People of color are
disproportionately affected by wealth inequality, lack of jobs, and poverty. However, many of us believe that racism must be called out separately from classism and economics.

Having a strong race lens means you understand racism is threaded through and institutionalized in all of our systems and our very perceptions, threaded through how someone looks at you, treats you, thinks about you and your potential.

Arguing about which is more important—class or race—completely misses the point. Racism is an economic problem, yes, but it’s a deeper and more nuanced problem than that, one that a single-payer health plan and an increased minimum wage won’t solve."

State Senator Pramila Jayapal (WA)


http://civicskunkworks.com/an-eyewitness-account-bernie-sanders-black-lives-matter-and-why-we-cant-solve-racism-with-economics-alone/

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Response to OneGrassRoot (Reply #19)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 11:01 AM

22. I cannot disagree...however

The wealth disparity that Sanders and others talks about also has disporportionately affected poc. That disparity is more related to the tax codes and banking regulations than racism. There are some steps we are can take to start chipping away at the beast, without demanding that that everyone in the country magically become enlightened about race overnight.

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Response to noiretextatique (Reply #22)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 11:10 AM

24. I completely agree...

this has to be a multi-pronged effort.

Our country is so steeped in extreme competition, rather than collaboration, that fighting for causes famously becomes competitive and often nasty.

Except for the most extreme advocates of racial justice and advocates of economic justice who will remain militant (and I think there may be a place for that so long as there is no physical violence, as we do have a tendency to become complacent as a society), I wish more people could put their complete attention and energy into whatever they are most passionate about, without diminishing or demeaning the other issues or advocates of those issues.

I favor a triage approach, personally, but there are so many reasons people can be more effective working on one cause more than another yet still completely support the other cause.

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Response to OneGrassRoot (Reply #24)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 11:31 AM

25. I am in total agreement with that aporoach

I have been in dialogue with some black millenials ( I am 56) about the latest BLM-related incident in Seattle. They are continuing to rage about the racism of Sanders supporters, and feeling outraged about white people telling them how to address injustice. I keep asking them: which candidate listened and responded to the concerns BLM raised? Clinton had a closed door meeting, so I guess she will do something soon, but Sanders added a thoughtful and comprehensive plank to his campaign. But still...the raging against white Sanders supporters continues. Of course they have a point, but as I keep asking: who are you going to vote for? And, do you think white Clinton or Trump or Carson or Bush, etc., supporters are more enlightened? While I suppport efforts to challenge racism in liberal and progressive circles, I do not, cannot, and will not support a scorched earth strategy of black nationalism...which is how I see the Seattle disruption.

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Response to noiretextatique (Reply #25)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 11:47 AM

28. I've noticed similar things since Seattle...

I've witnessed Sanders supporters (I am one, btw) and BLM advocates lose sight of the message: both Bernie's message and the #BLM message. It devolved into an attack on the supporters.

I really hope what you're experiencing with the millennials will level off, especially since Bernie has responded (perhaps not as perfectly or as quickly as some prefer) each step of the way and is in alignment with the need for racial, social and economic justice.

It really sucks that the actions of a few can cause people to completely disparage an entire movement (#BLM) and a candidate (Sanders).

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Response to OneGrassRoot (Reply #28)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 12:35 PM

29. It seems it was almost the intent

Well...it was the intent

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Response to OneGrassRoot (Reply #19)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 09:10 PM

35. I agree that racism needs to be addressed as an issue but

Arguing about which is more important—class or race—completely misses the point. Racism is an economic problem, yes, but it’s a deeper and more nuanced problem than that, one that a single-payer health plan and an increased minimum wage won’t solve."


One of the things that happened in the days of separate but equal, is that many blacks, living in poverty, and going to black only schools that were also very poor, grew up thinking whites where better than them. You'd think that by now everyone would know better, but I believe (I might be wrong) that many blacks living in poverty today, with no hope of getting out, still feel that same way. And that is partly what is keeping them where they are; along with institutional racism where many whites feel the same way.

I was 18 when I started working for GTE in California. I worked in production (union) and the only thing I had to do to get hired was to take a two week, paid, training electronics assembly course, and pass the test at the end. Anyone who could pass that test would be hired. Because of that, I worked with mostly older white ladies (earning a 2nd income for their family) and many younger POC. I had two white young women friends, but all the rest of my friends were black, Hispanic, Puerto Rican, Filipino, or Asian. All the manufacturing supervisors were white men and women who first worked in assembly and worked their way up. After working there about ten years, in different capacities, and on different shifts, I decided to apply for a job in the office area (non-union). I was hired as a clerk in an engineering group. I worked there for another five years, and worked my way up to assistant engineer. The office areas were separate from the manufacturing areas, near by, but it was like a whole different world. The one thing that was really noticeable was the fact that there were almost no POC working in the offices. Not in engineering. Not in Materials Scheduling or Accounting, or Marketing. Not in any department other than manufacturing. My first supervisor in the engineering office happened to be Hispanic, and I still wonder how he landed that job. Our receptionist was Hawaiian. Everyone else was white with a few Asians mixed in for flavor.

Why? Why did no people of color work in the offices, when so many worked in assembly? Was it because nobody would hire them, or was it because they didn't even think it was possible, so never even applied?

I had no college degree when I was hired as a clerk. I was going to junior college then, but in a totally different field from what I was hired for. In the fifteen years I worked there, I never saw any people of color hired into the office jobs.

I also don't remember seeing POC in my junior college classes (and I attended classes at three different junior colleges in the area, over the course of ten years). One of my friends from one of my classes was black, but I don't remember any others. Why?

Was it because they were raised to believe that college was beyond them? If I could afford it on my wages, so could they. College was really cheap then. Was it social conditioning and they didn't know how to break out of the mold they were stuck in?

This was from 1968 to 1983. Things are different now. There are a lot of blacks in colleges now and in various jobs...but there are still huge pockets of blacks who live in fairly poor, segregated neighborhoods and burbs. I wonder how many of them cannot get out of their situations because of social conditioning from their environment, on top of institutional racism from whites.

This is where I think the economic and educational systems need to change, to provide poor black neighborhoods with more opportunities to teach kids from pre-school on up that they can succeed (if given the right education and opportunities).

There was a thread on here recently that talked about some really bad segregated schools of predominantly black kids in Florida, where they couldn't get teachers to stay and the kids were out of control and grades and learning were way below par. The school board seemed oblivious, but I wonder if many of the parents were too. Why were so many kids unruly? Is it because even at home they weren't taught that they have a chance to succeed...that they are stuck in a rut and school is meaningless?

If I am right in thinking this may be part of the problem, stopping "racism" (changing hearts) isn't going to help enough because the kids growing up in these conditions still don't know how to change their perspective on life. Nor do their parents. Not without jobs and opportunities that right now they just don't see in their futures.

This is what years of generational poverty and hopelessness and oppression can do to entire neighborhoods.

Without some of the changes Bernie is suggesting, to provide more jobs to youth of color and to raise wages and give more educational opportunities (starting from pre-school on up) just changing hearts or fighting for a better prison system and stopping racial profiling, isn't going to bring people out of their social ruts. It's going to take all of the above to make big changes. And it's big changes that are needed today.

It's also going to take concerted grass roots protesting to raise social awareness, and hopefully change some hearts and minds of all colors.

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Response to passiveporcupine (Reply #35)

Sun Aug 23, 2015, 07:31 AM

36. I agree...

attempting to "change hearts" isn't enough. It must be accompanied by systemic changes -- the key system being the economic system.

For the long term, changing the economic, educational and other systems is a must.

For the now -- when people feel they literally are targets because of the color of their skin -- making changes in the criminal justice system and fighting for changes that can be implemented at local levels is the focus of BLM. Here is their list of 10 actions which can be implemented, or work toward implementing, now:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/black-lives-matter-policy-demands_55d7392ae4b0a40aa3aa9443

It's not an either/or. Economic justice is vital for everyone. It takes longer to turn that systemic ship around and subsequently turn communities around.

What is putting lives at jeopardy right now -- abusive police tactics -- can be acted upon right now.

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Response to noiretextatique (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 09:06 AM

21. K&R nt

 

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Response to noiretextatique (Original post)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 11:43 AM

27. Poverty Kills.


"Among racial and ethnic groups, African Americans had the highest poverty rate, 27.4 percent, followed by Hispanics at 26.6 percent and whites at 9.9 percent. 45.8 percent of young black children (under age 6) live in poverty, compared to 14.5 percent of white children." http://stateofworkingamerica.org/fact-sheets/poverty/


Forty-five percent of young black children live in poverty.

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #27)

Wed Aug 12, 2015, 01:27 PM

30. yes, it does

and it is high time to address poverty as an issue that has become inescapable for too many. there is still a belief that people can simply pull themselves up by their bootstraps, if they have the right set of character attributes: get an education, work hard, etc. but it clear that entrenched poverty begets entrenched poverty. from poor nutrition and inadequate housing, to sub-standard schools...the cards are stacked against the poor. add to that institutional racism and a predatory justice system, and the odds are stacked even more.

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Response to noiretextatique (Original post)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 03:42 PM

33. Kicked and highly recommended! n/t

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Response to noiretextatique (Original post)

Sat Aug 22, 2015, 06:39 PM

34. K & R

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