To the other women wondering where the good men are anymore,

LIKED IT TOO

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My ass.
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Her kick.
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Of course.
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are either not good themselves, or are not looking in the right places.

In either case, it's their fault. There are plenty of good wo/men out there.

"There are plenty of good men out there. It's just that they're not your type."

And yes, it is a slam against people who constantly whine about trying to find a good person but typically fall for the wrong kind of guy or even a troublemaker. One of my personal best friends was enamored with a man for the last two years, and for a good chunk of that relationship, he was in jail because he was unable to pay bail, and she had to scrape up whatever she could to pay her share and his share of the rent while he was in. She busted him fooling around ... with her so-called best friend. We all warned her, but she wouldn't have any of that talk. You can't help somebody who doesn't want to be helped.

way out of their league.

Also, in the case of women, the older you get, the more demographics are against her. Men frequently seek out women much younger than they are.
YES, I know that is changing and women are starting to do that more and more, but it's still far more common for a man to be involved with a much younger woman than the opposite.

Also, what ejpoeta said.

a much younger woman is not dating out of his league, eh?

Wow, ladies, it must suck to know the older we get, the worse we become, while with men it's the exact opposite!!

Understatement is one of those things.

n/t

and they miss out on a good person because they won't even give someone a chance. I had a friend who basically dated the same guy. He wasn't the same guy, but he could have been. And it always ended the same. When I first introduced her to my boyfriend, she told me I was settling and should dump him. He didn't fit her criteria I guess. I never really had a list and even though Bob didn't dress nice and didn't drive a nice car, and frankly I found him annoying when we first met, I saw something in him that led me to start dating him.

He's not perfect... neither am I. But we've been together for 15 years and have 3 kids now. The point I'm trying to make is that you have to throw out that list of requirements. It's bogus and it causes you to overlook more important things you should be looking for.

There was a woman who wrote a book about dating any guy who asked or something. She ended up finding someone she clicked with.

accept people that aren't that idealized object. I think they see it as settling for less than they want/deserve and why should they HAVE to put up with someone who isn't 'perfect' as they declare it.

they may another woman. but, not me. and vice versa. so we figure our imperfections are complimentary to each others personalities.

She had a quote about their always being more good women than there are good men to deserve them.

Men get killed in wars and are more likely to get killed in accidents, so there's always a shortage and so they can still get a woman even if they are not so great themselves. So I try not to judge women who are at least trying - it's not like the guy is so easy to replace. Makes being gay have one good advantage.

Have the same exact problems as straight people, quality speaking.

Being gay is no defense from poor quality.

(or crazy, for that matter )

and with overall population one wouldn't feel that - one can feel that there is at least someone to try with at any given time.

Seems to me that women are in the driver's seat. As a 50 year old single guy, I have spent my entire life feeling superfluous, rejected and cast aside. Most women seem able to find somebody, unless they choose not to. Of course, I have never really lived in a serious war-time. From the church records post 1810 in Germany, it did seem like there was a shortage of men.

Though you may not be interested in your fellow 50 year olds and require someone younger. But if you were there would be several to pick from per man.

That is, if I court a fifty year old woman, I am never going to have kids, or grandkids, Heck, I am sorta already too old to live to see any grandkids anyway.

But no, I am not meeting huge numbers of fifty year olds either, any more than I met lots of 45 year olds when I was 40 or 47 year olds when I was 45.

He is exactly like my Dad. Everyone says so.....

I am a firm believer that most women look for a mate that is like their Dad...either good or bad.

I read a book once that said you marry someone with both the good and negative aspects of both your parents. Then you try to fix those negative aspects in your spouse. It doesn't work though, you have to learn to live with them!

Some people definitely do not want to marry somebody like their fathers.

I did and my 2 nieces "look" for their Dad in everyone they date. He had drinking issues and anger issues.....they have put him on a pedestal and every single freaking guy that they date is just like my brother. He drank himself to death at 35 and left them as teenagers.

Guess whose picture is the biggest one framed on the wall in each of their homes?

Don't get me wrong, I loved my bro, but, not someone I would want my 2 nieces to marry.

but as time went on i noticed similarities. my brother is a lot like my dad and bob and pat are like best friends. my SIL said they were like twins. there are some ways he is like my dad.

My Dad loved his yard and my guy loves his yard.

My Dad smoked cigars and my guy smokes cigars.

My Dad lived for sports and my guy lives for sports....my Dad would watch a game and turn down the sound and listen to the play by play on the radio.....guess who else does that?

My Dad loved to cook on the grill and my guy loves to cook on the grill.

My Dad treated my Mom with respect and my guy treats me with respect.

Both are hard workers.

yeah, I live with my Dad....

Through high school and even a bit into college where I am now, I watched all these strong, independent, fiercely proud women end up dating drug-dealers, thugs and general losers who didn't have two legs to stand on - but because of their looks or the fact they had a nice car or nice clothes.

Best part is whenever these children posing as men abused them, verbally or physically(mostly verbal; physical abuse was rare in high school drama circles) they would end up RIGHT BACK with the same child, or move on to others who were the same.

I have no patience for women who settle for losers...maybe that's why my standards are so high.

You'll probably find someone good in college, but even if you don't, the world is open to you. Don't be in a hurry, it'll just make you feel more awkward.

Me, I'm old. I've got to be in a hurry. But you have plenty of time.

Don't know how many times I've been told we don't respond to that, but we do.

They may not be rich or handsome, but they make good husbands. I've known women who would never settle for a social worker or a schoolteacher, when those may be the kindest and most stable husbands you could imagine.

Unfortunately, too many women hanker for "dangerous" men.

Sideburns?

That'd make you look instantly dangerous. But it might cost you clients!

I've got really nice hair.

Actually it's advice for anybody: iconoclasm, edginess, confidence. Look at what you do, what the personal standards are, and push yourself closer to the edge. Stay this side of being a lout. Honor once lost, is never regained. Be honorable in all you do.

Don't grow sideburns, grow muttonchops. (Then shave them off after a week, they look like shit on anybody but Elvis and Civil-War officers...but first...grow them. They make anyone feel like a badass, note the feeling...that feeling, that swagger, it's what you're after.) Anything worth doing is worth doing bigger

Take fashionable risks. Wear narrower ties, complementary patterns, buy good dress shirts in non-standard colors. (Always own at-least one crisp pressed brightly-white dress shirt though.) Slimmer-cut designer suits. Do the things that you think: "I wish I could dress like that." I have a lawyer friend that wears Italian driving moccasins and Sperry Top-Siders to court among the wing-tip crowd. A casual shoe or sneaker in dresswear says "Fuck you. I'm impressive enough that I don't need to wear uncomfortable shoes for the likes of you." The richest most-powerful guy I know wears ratty plain-old Converse All-Stars with his suit; who the hell is going to tell him he can't?

Look good, feel good. Nobody loves a boring inactive slob. Do something daily that is fun and active. Shoot hoops. Play tennis against the side of the garage. Hell, chase the mailman barking your head off, it works for the dog. Find the one small bar in town that serves sangria and has a mariachi band with a dance floor. Not only will you get your exercise...the women tend to outnumber the men about 6:1...and it's better if you can't dance because they'll love to teach you. Personally, I've been needing to be taught how to dance for several years now and have rarely gone home alone.

Do interesting shit because you can. What's interesting? Who cares. Do things because they're there to be done and you might enjoy them. You might even meet someone else who does not suck while doing it. Perhaps at this very moment the next Mrs. dawg is preparing to run the length of Africa and you'll never meet her otherwise. Perhaps not, but if not at-least you've gotten an experience out of it.

One skill everybody needs to know is--How to be a conversationalist. It amazes me that nobody has this skill and so many people are daunted by it. "Hi, How are you?" "Fine. And you?" "I'm awesome. I just won an encyclopedia in an raffle." "Have you read anything interesting in the encyclopedia yet?" Really, is that hard? People dread having to talk to other people. If you can't have a conversation, there is no helping you. There's a great book on the subject, thankfully, called "The Art of Conversation" by Catherine Blyth.

Devise a mantra. Mine is: "What would Cary Grant do?" Of course the answer is always drink gin-drinks, engage in recreational-sex and look classy & stylish doing it...but it never hurts to ask the question. It's helped me discern that real men don't wear casual dress-pants with polo shirts unless they're golfing. Also, golf is a sport for men that want to dress like dorks. Also wit, charm and confidence excuse all manner of poor behavior. (except dishonor.)

Do what you do. We're all good at something; do the shit out of it. Look good doing it. Display no modesty whatsoever about what you're good at, but always in "bite-sized" portions. Accept praise humbly. Always acknowledge the contributions of others as central to your success.

Don't go to the dark side. Mid-life crises are for posers. Don't buy the sports car that screams "I have no self-confidence" when you drive it around in golfwear. Don't chase (wo)men half your age because you want to feel younger, chase (wo)men regardless of their age because they intrigue you. Don't pretend to be awesome, be awesome. Do or do not, there is no try.

So well thought out and just plain ... smart!

I have seriously considered chasing the mail carrier and barking my head off. She's very cute inside that little mail truck, and she always waves at me when I pass her on the street.

Finding something I'm really good at is hard. I am good at being a devoted husband and a good father. That was what was important to me over the years, and I worked at that to the neglect of developing my own interests.

I'll never go over to the dark side. If it takes a sports car to get a woman interested in me, then to hell with her.
And if I had any money, I'd for damn sure not want potential dates to know about it.

Maybe you're looking at the wrong women? Maybe try meeting them in hiking clubs or civic clubs or evening classes?

And yes, good conversation is a big part of attracting women. And a sense of humor. And projecting the fact that you're interested in THEM.

Me, personally, I'm a sucker for men who wear glasses.

I've been separated for nearly two years, but not divorced. So I haven't been looking at all. Just wandering around with my wedding ring still on looking forlorn.

In the rare even that a woman showed some sign of interest anyway, I responded by being ... er .... unresponsive.

For all I know, I could be a hot commodity if I ever really tried. Or, maybe it could go the other way and no one would be interested in me at all. Either way, I'm scared to death by the whole thing.

But you do make me feel better about my reading glasses. . I had perfect vision until just a few years ago, but the words started moving around on the page when I turned 42. Glad to know some women don't mind the look.

If you're not even trying, then you'd better snap out of it. Since women do occasionally show interest in you, you've obviously got "something" to attract them. Women don't mind it if men are scared of dating, but we do interpret unresponsiveness as a message that there's something wrong with US.

Lots of women like men who wear glasses.

That is the first thing that ladies look at after they see your face and your smile ---- "the ring."

That signals loud and clear that you are still married.
Not saying all women make that decision but all those that I know.


Ms.goclark

Am I doing it right?

"Why yes. Yes, I am going to wear this."

Hope it's okay with you that I copied and pasted what you wrote into a text document for reference and continuing inspiration. Thanks for posting this!

I'd buy it.

More like "risk taker" than dangerous, I guess...

I'll just have to miss out on those women who are turned-on by the dangerous types.

I can be a bad-ass if I am forced, but I'll never "look" like a bad-ass. I just don't have it in me.

The secret is it's not the "dangerous" that is attractive, it's the underlying attitude towards life that is appealing and sexy as all get-out.

on how an accountant can become a little more "dangerous"

The dangerous man gives you something to be melodramatic about.

After many years of observation, I believe that both women who go for bad boys and men who go for psycho-shrews (we don't often hear about that phenomenon, but it certainly exists!) are mostly chasing people who fit the media image of glamor. They're going for looks rather than personality.

Furthermore, both the bad boys and the psycho-shrews are good at counterfeiting what the opposite sex wants. Men want a passionate partner, and they mistake the psycho-shrew's moodiness for passion. Women want someone interesting to have around, and they mistake the bad boy's behavior for a sense of adventure.

I don't have any non-negotiable demands for looks or wealth, but I absolutely require a high level of intelligence, a non-childish sense of humor, a wide range of interests, and no ideas about what "real men" don't do. This is depressingly hard to find among the single straight men of my (older) age group. There are way too many anger junkies, alcoholics, and just plain boring guys who can't talk about anything but work or sports. They're the types who are divorced, and after talking to them for 15 minutes, I think, "I'd divorce you, too." After some awful experiences with online and personals dating, I have decided just to live my life and if I find someone, great, and if I don't, that's better than putting up with some of the boring, angry, addicted types I met when I actively tried to date.

I meet someone in the course of living my life, that's fine. Of course that has not "worked" but if not, then fine. I agree about the sense of adventure or passion - there are people I've been unfortunate enough to deal with in other areas of life who think that if you argue and fight that means you are "passionate" and "alive" and that it is a good thing. I don't think so.

Unfortunately, I have yet to meet that special someone.

I'm really not sure what exactly that means, though. Different things to different women, I guess.

one. and from my own personal life and what i see of men, they are all around. what i have read from you, i think you easily qualify. and i am sorry about hop.

Huh? I don't understand?

HoF

When guys in the Lounge post something like, "Why do all women like bad boys and reject nice guys like me"? I know that they're clueless.

In general, though, a REAL nice guy (as opposed to a self-pitying sniveler) is kind and considerate even to people he isn't romantically interested in. The self-pitying sniveler is indifferent to other people except for putting on a facade of bland "niceness" to impress women whom he is superficially attracted to, mostly based on their looks.

On the whole, though, you should go where the kinds of women you like are likely to be.

caring, loving and wonderful men.

I'm sure there are many on DU also but we most often hear from ones who like to be indifferent, show total disregard and dismissive treatment of any woman who states that she finds something offensive or worse.

What is wrong in this picture?

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

But that is just crazy talk, it always works in movies...

One of my best friends delivers this rant on cue, but she could write a how-to book on meeting assholes... that is when she isn't chasing obviously gay men.

?

finds it nteresting that you asked the question.

Is there a Forum here at DU where questions like that are asked?

DU members have one important thing in common --- politics.

IMO, most of the Republicans I meet, I can tell in two minutes that they are not on my same wave length.

So men can get advice from women, and vice versa.

At least we all have many ideas that are alike....

Most democrats believe that women should have equal rights.


Most Democrats believe in helping those that need help the most --

Most Democrats by now have decided that they will vote for Obama/Biden.

If they don't believe in Obama/Biden by now, they are at least open minded enough that they are not wasting their time at DU when they are planning to vote for Republicans.

Woman seeking man: nonsmoking Democrats only!

"Woman seeking man: nonsmoking Democrats only!"

I don't care how sweet, loving, etc. a man is, if he is a winger, it is just not going to work. I can't respect somebody who buys the baloney. Deep down, there is an inherent selfishness in the winger mentality.

My circle of women friends are all Democrats other than one and she is "out to lunch."

Republican men that I know are like Romney -- "no there there." Some may be "book smart" but they are usually self centered and cheap - even if they have money.

were laundry lists of political positions. Well duh, if you don't believe those things, you're on the wrong website. Tell me about who you are as a person, what is unique or interesting about you, why you think you're a good catch--without cliches.

I'm responsible, loving, no drugs, no alcohol, but not very handsome and very faithful
(30 years happily married), so I'm afraid I'm of no use to you!

"That's right, you're awesome!"

You said you raised one, which sounds to me like you had one (sorry if something bad happened)

For myself, not only have I not had a date since 1998, it seems like in the last ten years I have not even met any women to ask out. That was not true in the past. Heck back in the 1990s I used to get rejected by at least two women every year.

Then again, it is not like I miss THAT.

I'm still an asshole, but she puts up with me.

I was flipping through channels and stumbled on "Bridezillas". I am shocked that the men still go through with the weddings and that friends and family don't turn their back on these horrid women.

It seems like most of the time nice guys go for women who treat them badly and nice women go for men who treat them badly.

I don't understand it.

One 20-something woman ("girl"?) was judging the dateability of a guy based on how well he could make fart noises. I've dated quite a bit over the years, and never did fart noises factor into my decision-making.

Yeah, I don't get "Bridezillas" either. And I would offer that folks not take any relationship cues from shitty RomComs ("The Ugly Truth" being one of the most obnoxious...), or Judd Apatow films.

I'm mostly a science, discovery, natgeo, etc type of tv watcher. Some of the shows out there really make me wonder about us as a society. Meaness is celebrated and rewarded. Being popular rules over being intelligent. It's bizarre.

But I agree, that while the men complain more about women who like "bad boys," there are just as many men who are all smitten with psycho shrews. I've seen some of those relationships up close and personal, within my extended family.

I recall one of my (male) college professors saying to the class, "You fellows are going after all the girls who are conventionally cute and flirtatious, but you're ignoring the girls who are beautiful in every sense of the word."

Those cute, giggly types can be awfully embarrassing when they're fifty and still haven't grown any brains.

I wasn't even looking for a man when we met.

In one case, the woman was complaining to her friend about the stale pickup lines that the men in the bar used, and her future husband walked up to her and used his sly sense of humor to parody the pickup lines.

intelligent, hardworking, all that. I'm willing to trade him if anyone's got one that doesn't snore.

(being male, btw)...I was raised respecting my mom and grandma and aunts very much - all very accomplished, intelligent and strong individuals. I wanted a partner who was like that, who could stand on her own feet, who I could talk to and enjoy life with with.

Never happened - most women just wanted someone to lean on, or someone to disappear into, or someone to tell them what to do. You want a partner, you get an employee. Or worse, someone who then just uses you to pay the bills while she relives her stupid teen years in secret (don't get me started!). I blame the culture, or the changes in the culture, though likely I bear some of the blame as well.

In any case, at 40-something I've given up, and expect nothing at all - which is one way to avoid being disappointed all the time.

That's the way Ms.goclark runs her life.

I must have 5 "Best Male Friends in the entire world" that take me anywhere.... movies, restaurants, plays , Drive or Fly with me to Vegas or anywhere I/we want to go. They were there for me while my Mom was ill for 10 yrs ~ my Guy friends were/ARE simply amazing!

In addition to that ~ my Ex husband is living with a wonderful lady and when he comes in town today, he is taking me to lunch at a fancy restaurant. His Live In Lady encourages him to see me whenever he is in my town.

He invited me to a Formal Dance ~ his cousin was being honored and his sweet live in Lady was thrilled that I could attend with him because she was going to visit her daughter in another state.

If she comes in town with him -- we get together and the first thing we do is give each other a big Hug. She tells me how happy she is that he sees me/calls me.

I am not looking to be married - done that 2 times and I don't feel the need to ever do it again. However- if Mr. Absolutely Right comes along, I don't think I would marry him -- live with him/Yes, but no more marriage for Ms. goclark. I'm having too much fun being Single.

PS: I sure do wish we could have a Forum at DU to share experiences like this -thread does ~ look how many responses and look how much honesty we see here.

Is there a way to make that happen?

There are plenty of accomplished, intelligent, and strong women around.

But they're not necessarily conventionally cute or fashionable, nor will they routinely flirt with men they don't know unless they're attracted to them.

When I was younger, I had roommates who routinely flirted with all males. They were not good relationship material.

Society's expectations point you in the wrong direction.

I'd like to think I'm one of the good women and I've known several of the good men and women but the mere existence of both good men and good women doesn't necessarily mean that everyone can or will be imperfectly perfectly paired off. Whatever mechanism brings people together - accident or fate - is just as likely to leave some alone, some perpetually cycling through relationships (both good and bad) while others settle down into some semblance of happily ever after at relatively young ages. I think it's best to embrace all of the possibilities rather than seeing only one version of the experience of romantic love as being ideal.