Thu Aug 13, 2015, 01:11 PM
hifiguy (33,688 posts)
Context and the Assange case.
I have been around DU for 10+ years and seldom have I seen more nonsense, twaddle and utter foolishness spouted about any topic than Julian Assange.
A few points here in an attempt to get this discussion back in the realm of sanity First, the entire Assange case is about two interrelated issues, and two only: Whistleblowing and international espionage. Nothing else is of any relevance to a global understanding of this case. NOTHING. Not one thing about this case is about any person save Julian Assange. The revelations by Assange and Wikileaks embarrassed, humiliated, and pissed off a lot of extremely powerful people in governments throughout the Western world. They brought to light things no government wants the masses to have any awareness of. Therefore Assange is highly dangerous to them. These powerful people tend to be egonamiacal, paranoid, and exceedingly vengeful; their world is not one of sunny openness, harmony and duckies and bunnies; it is about bare-knuckled power contests for the highest imaginabie stakes.. They do not tolerate having their carefully concealed power games being dragged into the light of day and people who complicate their plans are generally terminated with extreme prejudice. As such, it is beyond question that intelligence agencies across Europe have been pressured by the American CIA and the British MI6 to assist in taking down Assange, and if possible Wikileaks, using any and all available means be they fair or foul, and when intelligence agencies are involved in espionage cases of this sort, "foul" is Option Number One. This would logically include the Swedish intelligence agencies. Many here seem to be woefully naive or willfully ignorant about what national and international intelligence do every day. There is no excuse for this. What the FBI and later the CIA have done to dissident Americans in America - including unionization movements in the 1930s, the anti-nuclear weapons movement of the 1950s, the Civil Rights movement, including MLK and all of its other top leaders, virtually all anti-Vietnam War organizations, the resistance to Raygun's covert war in Central America, those opposed to the Iraq War, and Occupy, to name but a few. This is what intelligence agencies, foreign and domestic, DO - protect those who possess and wield institutional power by spying on, monkeywrenching, ratfucking, infiltration and installing agents provocateur and every other dirty trick against those who dissent and/or pose some presumed and often entirely imaginary, threat. It is the very reason for and justifiction of their existence. It is why they ARE. And how do these organizations do their work? The first critical thing is to try and destroy the credibility of dissenters. For decades,beginning in the era of the Palmer Raids, this was done by smearing dissenters as Communists, left-wingers, fellow travelers, etc. The available history detailing this would fill a good-sized library. No sane person doubts that this happened. Circulating damaging, almost always false, information to try and discredit 'persons of interest' who present some sort of perceived threat to institutional or governmental power is a tactic as old as the first human state. Likewise, if simple smears prove ineffective, setting traps for dissidents is another time honor. Attempting to catch someone in a compromising situation by way of a "sting" or "honeytrap" is, again as old as time. The information can be used to then blackmail or silence the individual who fell into the trap. It is monumentally clear to any thinking person that this is what was done to Assange. And smearing people with false information or setting up traps are the most elementary bits of tradecraft for any spy organization. You do not get out of spooks' kindergarten, much less become a field operative, unless you know how to do these things in your sleep. This kind of standard operational ratfucking is child's play compared to the big, complicated operations inelligence agencies regularly engage in,and is the meat and potatatoes of their trade. So how does this apply here? Very simply. Swedish intelligence is leaned on by MI6 or the CIA to do something about Assange - preferably something that would result in his arrest, after which he would disappear or die after secretly being subjected to preliminaries that might even make Dick Cheney blanch. How to do, how to do? Find some bait for a trap. Bribe/pay or pressure/threaten (with blackmail or other negative consequences) a couple of women to pursue Assange and let nature take its course. Then have the woman or women file completely phony rape accusations against Assange, with all the administrative detail work tended to by the spooks. Elementary tradecraft, and anyone who believes that this is not possible or in fact likely is a useful idiot at best. Arrest Assange for rape, hold a rigged show trial, convict him, and leave him to the tender mercies of the torturers before disposing of him and announcing to the public that he died in prison of unknown or indeterminate causes. Again, this is what spies do for a living. Eecuting these kinds of actions like is why there ARE spies in the first place. But Assange smelled the rat behind the curtain and flipped the tables on them. And the useful idiots swallow the official story of the intelligence agencies hook, line and sinker. This isn't James Bond level spycraft. It's blunt, crude, simple and effective, particularly when all the liars and agencies are swearing to the same story. Its purpose is to eliminate high-profile dissenters by any means possible, and that means by any means. This kind of thing is the woof and warp of what spooks around the world do each and every day and have been doing since before the Pyramids were built and in every part of the world. It's as common as the air around us. It has been done to dissidents in our own country. Shit, just read Octafish's impeccably researched posts about intelligence agencies, the Permanent Government and the "men behind the curtain." And if you cannot see the logic of this argument, the overwhelming probability that it is true, and how intelligence agencies work in the real world, there is, simply put, no hope for you. You are hopelessly and irredeemably blind and deaf to the nature of reality and your words are worthless.
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Response to hifiguy (Original post)
Corruption Inc This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to Corruption Inc (Reply #1)
Post removed
Response to Corruption Inc (Reply #1)
Sun Aug 16, 2015, 04:34 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
283. Read the Swedish Judicial Authority's "Findings of facts and reasons" for insight into how Assange
Last edited Thu Aug 20, 2015, 11:03 PM - Edit history (1) was grossly mistreated to such a degree that in 2014 FIFTY NINE international organizations "Call Upon UN to Remedy Human Rights Violations in Pre-Charge Detention of Wikileaks Publisher Julian Assange
"
Link to the demand by FIFTY NINE international organizations regarding human rights violations committed upon the person of Julian Assange - https://wikileaks.org/59-International-Organizations.html The FIFTY NINE organizations standing with Assange stated in part: "The entire international community has witnessed the opportunistic manipulation of the accusations against Mr. Assange, in an attempt to destroy his reputation and to prevent his freedom and his ability to act politically. It is obvious that this unprecedented situation has not come about as a result of the alleged acts committed in Sweden, but rather due to the clear political interference by powerful interests in response to Mr. Assange’s journalistic and political activities. This situation has turned Julian Assange into a political prisoner, who is effectively condemned to house arrest without any charges having been brought against him, without being able to exercise his right to due process." If anyone on DU wants to get a really honest handle on the process used against Assange, I suggest you go to this official Swedish legal document called the Swedish Judicial Authority's "Findings of facts and reasons". Savvy DUers will see right through the crap loaded on top of Assange. http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/world/20110224-Britain-Ruling-Assange-Extradition-to-Sweden.pdf The "Findings of facts and reasons" document is authored by: Howard Riddle Senior District Judge (Chief Magistrate) Appropriate Judge. (PLEASE NOTE, ALTHOUGH SENIOR DISTRICT JUDGE RIDDLE SAYS WITHIN THE "FINDINGS OF FACTS AND REASONS" THAT HE IS UNAWARE OF AN EXTRADITION TREATY WITH THE UNITED STATES, ONE HAS IN FACT EXISTED SINCE 1961 -- Here is a link to that treaty: https://internationalextraditionblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/us-sweden-extradition-treaty-14-ust-1845.pdf ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Response to Corruption Inc (Reply #1)
Sun Aug 16, 2015, 06:45 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
286. OMG!!!! CARL ROVE IS ADVISOR TO SWEDISH GOV RE PROSECUTION OF JULIAN ASSANGE!!!!!!!
http://markcrispinmiller.com/2011/02/eight-big-problems-with-the-case-against-assange-must-read-by-naomi-wolf/ Eight BIG PROBLEMS with the “case” against Assange (MUST-READ by Naomi Wolf) SNIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Response to ronnie624 (Reply #303)
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 04:05 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
314. Sweden Tells the UN that Indefinite Detention Without Charge is Fine
The United Kingdom’s costs for its embassy "siege" against Julian Assange, who has not been charged with an offence, has hit 10 million pounds, Scotland Yard confirmed today.
Meanwhile, damning footage has been released from the United Nations. Sweden fell under fire at the UN over its decision to insist on the detention of Assange for more than 1,500 days without charge. It aborted its own press conference after pointed questions from journalists, and explicitly stated that it had no problem with indefinite detention without charge, not just for Mr Assange, but as a principle. Most countries place strict limits on detention without charge. In the UK and Australia, and in the US (except for Guantanamo Bay), a matter of hours. Mr Assange said: "Sweden has imported Guantanamo’s most shameful legal practice - indefinite detention without charge." On 26 January 2015 Sweden was the subject of the United Nations Human Rights Commission Universal Periodic Review (UPR) at the UN in Geneva. Fifty-nine human rights organisations filed complaints against Sweden’s behaviour in the Assange case as part of the UPR.
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Response to ronnie624 (Reply #303)
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 03:48 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
343. Assange has known since 2011 that a secret indictment was waiting for him in the USA
Last edited Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:00 AM - Edit history (1) Thanks to a post by DUer SNOT I found this and a good comment from him at the end of this post from 2012.
Taken from Rolling Stone "WikiLeaks Stratfor Emails: A Secret Indictment Against Julian Assange?" On January 26, 2011, Fred Burton, the vice president of Stratfor, a leading private intelligence firm which bills itself as a kind of shadow CIA, sent an excited email to his colleagues. "Text Not for Pub," he wrote. "We" – meaning the U.S. government – "have a sealed indictment on Assange. Pls protect." http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/wikileaks-stratfor-emails-a-secret-indictment-against-assange-20120228 Good quote by "SNOT" found in a June 2012 post where he did an analysis of the situation: "The fact is, most legal experts agree that there's no way to indict Assange for espionage, since he's not a US citizen (i.e., the US isn't his country to begin with, so he can't betray it. Only way to get him is as a co-conspirator with Manning; but apparently they haven't been able to get Manning to implicate him, despite subjecting him to conditions widely considered to be torture; or else they're keeping the indictment secret, perhaps bec. they know if they reveal it, they would be prevented from extradicting him from any number of countries that refuse to allow extradition if the person could face capital punishment.)" Aikido Soul: Yep. I would worry that the CIA torturers would force Manning to implicate Assange so he could be boiled alive in Guantanamo. Or just do one of those rendiditon kidnappings and drop him out of a plane." |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #343)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:13 AM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
425. Comment to SNOT's June 2012 comment about "there's no way to indict Assange for espionage"
It's three years later and Rove and his collaborators are still strategizing about how to snatch Assange. Somewhere in this thread there is a video link where Rove actually says the equivalent of that.
Rove and his allies are people with no conscience whatsoever. You know that and so do most savvy DUers. The Rovians are out for revenge for embarrassing their friends. Assange just wrote an open letter to French President Francois Hollande, asking for political asylum in France. He was refused. IMHO that is a blow that stinks of fear. Hollande should be grateful that WikiLeaks published how the NSA eavesdropped on the last three French presidents. Maybe Hollande is afraid that he's being spied on as well. Here's the NYT story on the NSA spying on three French presidents: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/24/world/europe/wikileaks-files-said-to-show-nsa-spied-on-french-leaders.html?ref=topics Here's the NYT story on President Hollande's refusal to grant Assange asylum: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/04/world/europe/french-president-denies-julian-assanges-request-for-protection.html?ref=topics Assange cannot even go outside to get fresh air because of the Scotland Yard forces surrounding the Ecuadorian embassy. He cannot even go to a hospital, and says that his "health is deteriorating." |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #343)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 02:44 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
426. Sarah Palin: hunt WikiLeaks founder like al-Qaeda and Taliban leaders
The founder of WikiLeaks should be hunted down just like al-Qaeda and Taliban leaders, according to Sarah Palin at the Republican National Convention. |
Response to ronnie624 (Reply #303)
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 10:19 AM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
431. Good works of Assange's WikiLeaks - Links by country
Every country in the world is listed and it is a mind blowing collection. ![]() https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Category:Countries |
Response to hifiguy (Original post)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 01:35 PM
Mnemosyne (21,363 posts)
2. An excellent OP, hifiguy! Hope it awakens some here, but the propaganda has been strong. nt
Response to Mnemosyne (Reply #2)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 01:41 PM
hifiguy (33,688 posts)
4. The intelligence agencies and propaganda machines get those billions upon billions
for a reason.
I usually think of the people at DU as being brighter than average despite being regularly disabused of that notion. This seems so blindingly, unavoidably obvious that only the most narrowly driven ideologists can avoid seeing the tiger in the bathroom. |
Response to hifiguy (Reply #4)
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 12:24 AM
Mnemosyne (21,363 posts)
179. I see you are getting hammered for your OP.
DU has changed so much over the years. The constant attacks are disturbing.
![]() |
Response to Mnemosyne (Reply #179)
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 02:04 AM
hifiguy (33,688 posts)
181. I expected to get hammered by those
very people. To give a shit about their opinions I would have to believe they can think straight. The evidence speaks for itself, doesn't it.
![]() The reflective mind asks "what is going on here?" and considers what hypothesis might explain the observed reality. The blinkered dogmatist arrives with an answer in hand, and questions only confuse and complicate what has already been decided. Therefore questions are to be avoided. A very fundy/Republican-like thought process, if you can call it that, at least IMO. Verdict first, trial later. I'd always thought lefties were better than that. Oh, well..... ![]() ![]() |
Response to hifiguy (Reply #181)
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 09:00 AM
librechik (30,509 posts)
198. bless your heart, hifiguy
Your post was accurate, well said and unfortunately necessary. I can hardly bring myself to post at DU anymore because of the "hammering" you get if you post anything other than the official MSM story. The younger folks here are woefully uninformed--and resistant to information that goes against their generational indoctrination. Of course this is natural--but quite vexing!
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Response to librechik (Reply #198)
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 09:04 AM
hifiguy (33,688 posts)
199. Thank you.
I enjoy being a bit of a gadfly. DU is a very different place than it was just a few years ago and there is a group of folks who are very vigilant idea police. They behave much like the spooks I described as using smear and deflection tactics.
It would be funnier if it weren't so pathetic. |
Response to hifiguy (Reply #199)
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 09:09 AM
librechik (30,509 posts)
201. this thread is fabulous for flushing out moles
I already have six old familiar names to put on my ignore list!
(I have heart disease, it's not good for me to implode.) So no, thank you, hifiguy! |
Response to hifiguy (Reply #199)
Sun Aug 16, 2015, 09:02 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
291. "Sex accusers boasted about their 'conquest' of WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange"
Report from the India Times:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/Sex-accusers-boasted-about-their-conquest-of-WikiLeaks-founder-Julian-Assange/articleshow/7068149.cms?referral=PM Anna Ardin: "Condom broke" SNIP |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #291)
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 05:32 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
318. Maybe it's almost over now? "Julian Assange's attorney speaks out as sexual assault case dropped"
http://www.theguardian.com/media/video/2015/aug/13/julian-assange-sexual-assault-case-wikileaks-video
A human rights attorney representing Julian Assange reacts to Thursday’s news that various sexual assault charges against the WikiLeaks founder have been dropped, following the expiration of a five-year time limit. Carey Shenkman says it is ‘unacceptable’ that Assange has been detained for so long without a charge, and questions the motives of Swedish prosecutors. Source: Ruptly TV -- Thursday 13 August 2015 17.41 EDT ![]() |
Response to librechik (Reply #198)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 11:04 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
418. Come back librchik and support hifiguy and those trying to post
threads that tell the truth. Those people are still here.
When we see their posts we should support them, and not allow the HAMMERS to steal and pollute the posts. It is heart warming that at least Austrailian journalists have supported Assange. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-12-23/journalists-union-shows-support-for-assange/2383428 Journalists' union shows support for Assange
SNIP "We've been very disappointed in the way his journalism has been characterised," she said. "We'd like to remind everyone that Julian, like other members of the media alliance, is covered by our code of ethics that covers journalists," she said. "We're pointing out that we don't believe that Julian Assange has in any way broken the code of ethics, we believe that he's upholding two of its important principles - not to disclose his source, and secondly, to publish in the public interest." Ms Connor says his situation is extraordinary and he must be supported in the name of free speech. SNIP WikiLeaks continues to progressively release 250,000 leaked US diplomatic cables, as promised. SNIP "WikiLeaks is simply performing the same function as media organisations have for centuries in facilitating the release of information in the public interest," she said in a statement. "Mr Assange's rights should be respected just the same as other journalists. "WikiLeaks has broken no Australian law and as an Australian citizen, Julian Assange should be supported by the Australian Government, not prematurely convicted." |
Response to librechik (Reply #198)
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 12:16 AM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
430. Julian Assange should be awarded Nobel peace prize, suggests Russia
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/dec/09/julian-assange-nobel-peace-prize
Julian Assange should be awarded Nobel peace prize, suggests Russia |
Response to hifiguy (Reply #181)
Thu Aug 20, 2015, 12:04 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
401. Hifiguy, in case you ever wondered whether Assange helped the world realize that fascism is upon us
Here a tiny portion of the information that WikiLeaks revealed:
https://www.opendemocracy.net/ryan-gallagher/what-has-wikileaks-ever-taught-us-read-on (PLEASE NOTE: The link is better because it has other links that take you to the background stories) American planes bombed a village in Southern Yemen in December 2009, killing 14 women and 21 children (see Amnesty) The Secretary of State's office encouraged US diplomats at the United Nations to spy on their counterparts by collecting biographic & biometric information (see Wired.com) The Obama administration worked with Republicans to protect Bush administration officials facing a criminal investigation into torture (see Mother Jones) A US Army helicopter gunned down two Reuters journalists in Baghdad in 2007 (see Reuters) US authorities failed to investigate hundreds of reports of abuse, torture, rape and even murder by Iraqi police and soldiers (see the Guardian) In Iraq there were scores of claims of prison abuse by coalition forces even after the Abu Ghraib scandal (see the Bureau of Investigative Journalism) Afghan President Hamid Karzai freed suspected drug dealers because of their political connections (see CBS News) Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu expressed support for the concept of “land swaps” (see Yahoo News) The United States was secretly given permission from Yemen's president to attack the Al-Qaeda group in his country (see the Guardian) Then-Secretary of Defence Donald Rumsfeld and his top commanders repeatedly knowingly lied to the American public about rising sectarian violence in Iraq beginning in 2006 (see the Daily Beast) The US was shipping arms to Saudi Arabia for use in northern Yemen even as it denied any role in the conflict (see Salon.com) Saudi Arabia is one of the largest origin points for funds supporting international terrorism (see the Guardian A storage facility housing Yemen's radioactive material was unsecured for up to a week (see Bloomberg) Israel destroyed a Syrian nuclear reactor in 2007, fearing it was built to make a bomb (see the Sunday Times) Top officials in several Arab countries have close links with the CIA (see the Peninsula) Swiss company Trafigura Beheer BV dumped toxic waste at the Ivorian port of Abidjan, then attempted to silence the press from revealing it by obtaining a gagging order (see WikiLeaks) Pakistan's government has allowed members of its spy network to hold strategy sessions on combating American troops with members of the Taliban (see the New York Times) A stash of highly enriched uranium capable of providing enough material for multiple "dirty bombs" has been waiting in Pakistan for removal by an American team for more than three years (see CBS News) US military Special Operations Forces have been conducting offensive operations inside Pakistan, despite repeated denials from US officials (see the Nation) China was behind the online attack on Google (see ZDNet) North Korea is secretly helping the military dictatorship in Myanmar build nuclear and missile sites in its jungles (see CBS News) The Indian government "condones torture" and systematically abused detainees in the disputed region of Kashmir (see CBS News) The British government has been training a Bangladeshi paramilitary force condemned by human rights organisations as a "government death squad" (see the Guardian) BP suffered a blowout after a gas leak in the Caucasus country of Azerbaijan in September 2008, a year and a half before another BP blowout killed 11 workers (see the Guardian) Saudi Arabia's rulers have deep distrust for some fellow Muslim countries, especially Pakistan and Iran (see CBS News) Saudi Arabia’s King Abdullah repeatedly urged the United States to attack Iran (see the Guardian) Iranian Red Crescent ambulances were used to smuggle weapons to Lebanon's militant Hezbollah group during its 2006 war with Israel (see CBS News) Dozens of US tactical nuclear weapons are in Germany, the Netherlands and Belgium (see Jerusalem Post) The Libyan government promised "enormous repercussions" for the UK if the release of Abdel Baset al-Megrahi, the Lockerbie bomber, was not handled properly (see CBS News) Pope Benedict impeded an investigation into alleged child sex abuse within the Catholic Church (see MSNBC) Sinn Fein leaders Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness carried out negotiations for the Good Friday agreement with Irish then-prime minister Bertie Ahern while the two had knowledge of a bank robbery the Irish Republican Army was planning to carry out (see CBS News) Anglo-Dutch oil giant Royal Dutch Shell PLC has infiltrated the highest levels of government in Nigeria (see the Guardian) A US official was told by Mexican President Felipe Calderon that Latin America "needs a visible US presence" to counter Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez's growing influence in the region (see Yahoo News) Cuba's economic situation could become "fatal" within two to three years (see Business Week) McDonald's tried to delay the US government's implementation of a free-trade agreement in order to put pressure on El Salvador to appoint neutral judges in a $24m lawsuit it was fighting in the country (see the Guardian) British officials made a deal with the US to allow the country to keep cluster bombs in the UK despite the ban on the munitions signed by Gordon Brown (see Politics.co.uk) The British government promised to protect America's interests during the Chilcot inquiry into the Iraq war (see the Guardian) The US government was acting on behalf of GM crop firm Monsanto in 2008, when the US embassy in Paris advised Washington to start a military-style trade war against any European Union country which opposed genetically modified (GM) crops (see the Guardian) Pfitzer tested anti-biotics on Nigerian children, contravening national and international standards on medical ethics (see Medical News Today) Prisoners at Camp Delta (Guantanamo Bay) were denied access to the Red Cross for up to four weeks (see the Telegraph) More than 66,000 civilians suffered “violent deaths” in Iraq between 2004 and the end of 2009 (see the Telegraph) Russia is a “virtual mafia state” with rampant corruption and scant separation between the activities of the government and organised crime (see the Guardian) The Obama administration tried to “sweet-talk” other countries in to taking Guantanamo detainees, as part of its (as yet unsuccessful) effort to close the prison (see the New York Times) Shoot.... might as well make this thread go up to 400 replies! At least! ![]() |
Response to hifiguy (Reply #4)
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 08:14 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
394. Counterpunch's John Pilger tells the story of Assange and the dangerous stage he's now entering
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/07/31/julian-assange-the-untold-story-of-an-epic-struggle-for-justice/
Julian Assange: the Untold Story of an Epic Struggle for Justice SNIPPITY SNIP SNIP This is an updated version of John Pilger’s investigation which tells the unreported story of an unrelenting campaign, in Sweden and the US, to deny Julian Assange justice and silence WikiLeaks. For important additional information, click on the following links: http://justice4assange.com/extraditing-assange.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/assange-could-face-espionage-trial-in-us-2154107.html https://justice4assange.com/Timeline.html https://justice4assange.com/Timeline.html http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/wikileaks_doj_05192014.pdf https://wikileaks.org/59-International-Organizations.html https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/1202703/doj-letter-re-wikileaks-6-19-14.pdf http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/jul/23/julian-assange-ecuador-and-sweden-in-tense-standoff-over-interview?CMP=twt_gu http://assangeinsweden.com/2015/03/17/the-prosecutor-in-the-assange-case-should-be-replaced/ https://justice4assange.com/Prosecutor-cancels-Assange-meeting.html John Pilger can be reached through his website: www.johnpilger.com |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #394)
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 08:47 PM
hifiguy (33,688 posts)
395. Anyone with a dozen brain cells can connect
The dots. Why would any government invest tens of millions in persecuting Assange for any reason other than his whistleblowing?
But now I see a ton of agreement with and interest in this post, a bit of skepticism, some of the usual BS from the defenders of the status quo. Then there is the lunatic ranting from the Total Paranoia corner, the unhinged Witchfinders General who can find "misogynist" conspiracies in pics of LOL cats. Like I would ever give a gerbil turd about anything they would ever say. I take them as seriously as I take similar nuts like Alex Jones. Assange is in dark and dangerous waters and I hope he makes it through. |
Response to hifiguy (Reply #395)
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 11:41 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
396. Thank you hifiguy for the opportunity to participate in your wonderful thread.
It is an honor. Your OP was precise, incisive and to the point. A very attractive invitation to participate in something intelligent.
Don't let the idiots get you down. I did have some fun toying with them a bit. ![]() I hope to God that Assange will survive his ordeal. God help him and keep him safe Hugs to you both. ![]() ![]() |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #396)
Thu Aug 20, 2015, 01:08 AM
hifiguy (33,688 posts)
397. Thanks AS.
Those kinds of nitwits and Apostles of Total Paranoia irritate me, like an itch you can't reach. But that's all; they do not get me down. The world is filled with delusional dopes of all possible kinds and they're just one species in that part of the human zoo. People for whom I have zero intellectual respect cannot get me down. No way.
![]() ![]() You handled them beautifully. Sputtering, incoherent Palinesque outrage means they've been cornered by verifiable facts and always means you've won the point. ![]() |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #394)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 06:12 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
428. Biden says Assange is a "high tech terrorist"
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/dec/19/assange-high-tech-terrorist-biden US vice-president makes strongest remarks by any White House official over WikiLeaks founder and dipomatic cables |
Response to hifiguy (Reply #4)
Thu Aug 20, 2015, 08:45 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
406. Assange has received many awards and honors for leaking the truth about how the world
really works!
JULAIN ASSANGE was given an award by AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL that he shared in the category NEWS MEDIA . ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #406)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 10:12 AM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
410. Here's an excellent post by MARMAR which demonstrates that the government
can destroy you easily, not only for whistleblowing but also "basic communication. MARMAR posted this in May of this year.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026680349 'It’s a warning shot—not only against whistleblowing but against basic communication......' http://www.thenation.com/article/207017/cia-officer-jeffrey-sterling-sentenced-prison-latest-blow-governments-war-journalism |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #410)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 10:21 AM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
411. There is a vendetta against truth telling
Is DU protected? Are the poster's real names available to anyone?
It occurs to me that most any computer system can be hacked...so tell me, have there been any incidents when the government made trouble for DU posters? AS |
Response to Mnemosyne (Reply #2)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 03:24 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
416. Propaganda galore, but also much support from respected people like Michael Moore and
Oliver Stone. Here is their co-authored opinion article about Assange in the NY Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/21/opinion/wikileaks-and-the-global-future-of-free-speech.html?_r=0 WikiLeaks and Free Speech SNIP Michael Moore and Oliver Stone are Academy Award-winning filmmakers. Comment from AikidoSoul: I do believe that Senator Feinstein, who calls Assange a "terrorist" has a huge conflict of interest as whe and her husband Richard Blum have made a huge amounts of money on that racket called war. And there are many other conflicts as well having to do with them making a lot of money due to her influence. I wonder if she is mentioned in WikiLeaks? |
Response to hifiguy (Original post)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 01:41 PM
randome (34,845 posts)
3. Good God, you're right, Assange is no James Bond.
No one gives a shit what happens to him. He is nothing to your alleged shadowy masters of us all. It strains the imagination to think that any government cares about him other than to call him to account for his offenses in Sweden.
He didn't embarrass anyone to the extent you want to imagine. Big deal, he published some diplomatic cables. He released an edited version of the 'collateral murder' video and got caught by the public doing it. It really saddens me to see this immense fixation on him as some sort of "people's hero". Even Wikileaks disowned him at one point. No one cares other than wanting him to stop trying to evade the Swedish justice system. All this slavish worship for a man who wouldn't hesitate to sell you out in order to make himself look heroic. As he did with Chelsea Manning. He is nothing but another George Zimmerman wanna-be hero. Desperate for heroes you may be but, please, look somewhere else. You're embarrassing yourself. [hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr] |
Response to randome (Reply #3)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 01:43 PM
hifiguy (33,688 posts)
5. i cannot even begin to quantify the irrelevance of what you are attempting to say.
You don't think police and spy agencies target or entrap people.
OK. That tells me what I need to know, Right there. Jebus wept. |
Response to hifiguy (Reply #5)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 01:46 PM
randome (34,845 posts)
6. Right. Because someone, somewhere might be targeted, Assange's word is automatically golden.
Remember Scott Ritter? Simply because you like someone's politics does not make them incapable of being terrible human beings in their spare time.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr] |
Response to randome (Reply #6)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 01:49 PM
hifiguy (33,688 posts)
8. MLK was targeted. Occupy was targeted.
The people resisting Raygun's Central American war were targeted.
Assange is a threat to TPTB just like they were. He was targeted just like they were, because he defis the narrative of TPTB. He's just the latest of many. The international context is the only thing that makes ihis situation different. What about that is so seemingly impossible for you to understand? |
Response to hifiguy (Reply #8)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 02:00 PM
msanthrope (37,549 posts)
14. Was Scott Ritter targeted? nt
Response to msanthrope (Reply #14)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 02:02 PM
hifiguy (33,688 posts)
16. WTF does Scott Ritter,
whom I can barely remember, have to do with this or anything else?
Deflection, deflaction, deflection. |
Response to hifiguy (Reply #16)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 02:16 PM
msanthrope (37,549 posts)
23. As randome indicated it's entirely possible to be politically on the right side of the spectrum
and still be an amazingly nasty bastard in your private life. even liberal men can rape.
|
Response to msanthrope (Reply #23)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 02:21 PM
hifiguy (33,688 posts)
25. But no one would have any possible reason to frame Assange, right?
;eyes:
|
Response to hifiguy (Reply #25)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 02:28 PM
msanthrope (37,549 posts)
28. how does one frame a man who has admitted to the acts described in the warrant?
Assange is main appeal point was not that he did not do the acts described in the warrant but that he did. And that those acts were not crimes in Great Britain and therefore he could not be extradited to Sweden. is Assange now part of the greatest conspiracy against him?
|
Response to msanthrope (Reply #28)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 02:45 PM
reorg (3,317 posts)
34. it was known that he couldn't say no
to women who threw themselves at him.
Nothing is easier than to set the honeytrap. |
Response to reorg (Reply #34)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 03:00 PM
hifiguy (33,688 posts)
54. A bit of spycraft that is literally as old
as societies have been at war with each other. So I'd guess 5000-7500 years is a reasonable guess as to its age.
|
Response to hifiguy (Reply #54)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 03:12 PM
msanthrope (37,549 posts)
75. so now you're comparing these women to prostitutes? nt
Response to msanthrope (Reply #75)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 03:18 PM
hifiguy (33,688 posts)
80. Are you REALLY this ignorant about how intelligence people
operate?
And my larger point, discussed in another post, is that they may well have been coerced in some way into taking part in an action to "get" Assange. "Do X for us or suffer consequence Y" is not much of a choice, is it? That makes one a pawn and a victim, not a prostitute. The most brutal and basic version of this approach to coercion was on full display in Abu Ghraib and Gitmo: "You tell us what we want to know or we will (a) torture you or (b) kill your family." THAT is how intelligence operations work at the level of the nitty-gritty. |
Response to hifiguy (Reply #80)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 03:21 PM
msanthrope (37,549 posts)
83. Again....do you have any evidence? nt
Response to msanthrope (Reply #83)
Sun Aug 16, 2015, 10:37 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
296. US targets WikiLeaks like no other organisation (interesting 2011 news report)
http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/us-targets-wikileaks-like-no-other-organisation-20111202-1obeo.html
![]() WIKILEAKS is the target of an ''unprecedented'' US government criminal investigation, Australian diplomatic cables obtained by the Herald reveal. SNIP |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #296)
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 07:37 AM
msanthrope (37,549 posts)
305. A newspaper article from 4 years ago is not proof of anything.
Response to msanthrope (Reply #305)
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 09:50 AM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
306. Naomi Wolf investigated and discovered that CARL ROVE is advising Sweden in prosecution of ASSANGE
She is a highly credible person here on DU and among investigative journalists.
So is Mark Crispin Miller Eat your heart out ![]() And read the whole thing otherwise you don't get the grisly details that document that the US' intent is to jail him for espionage. http://markcrispinmiller.com/2011/02/eight-big-problems-with-the-case-against-assange-must-read-by-naomi-wolf/ Eight BIG PROBLEMS with the “case” against Assange (MUST-READ by Naomi Wolf) |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #306)
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 01:06 PM
msanthrope (37,549 posts)
307. Again...four years ago. And not 'proven' so much as wildly speculated.
It's rather interesting isn't it that Assange's lawyers never raised any of the supposed proof in his appeal of the extradition order in Britain??? perhaps because they were reluctant to bring to court unprovable CT?
|
Response to msanthrope (Reply #307)
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 03:51 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
313. You are the one speculating using flimsy claims void of facts or documentation.
and then
![]() Aren't you just a little embarrassed ![]() ![]() |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #313)
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 04:09 PM
msanthrope (37,549 posts)
315. you are conflating Naomi Wolf with Naomi Klein.
Naomi wol f is most well known for writing a book about her vagina. No seriously I am not making that up......
http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/roiphe/2012/09/naomi_wolf_s_new_book_about_her_vagina_is_ludicrous_.html Naomi Klein is best known for this book...... http://www.amazon.com/The-Shock-Doctrine-Disaster-Capitalism/dp/0312427999 Naomi Klein hasn't said much about WikiLeaks over the last 5 years...... I suspect she saw Assange's cowardly dive into the Ecuadorian embassy for exactly what it was. if you want to read what noted and respected feminists are saying about Julian Assange read this from katha Pollitt...... http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/dec/27/rape-left-julian-assange-swedish-law-wikileaks |
Response to msanthrope (Reply #315)
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 05:57 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
319. You're confused. I know the difference between Naoimi Klein and Naomi Wolf, the latter being an
expert on women's issues. It was she who analysed the Assange case because rape and legal issues concerning rape crimes, are topics she is an expert on as she worked for five years with women's organizations that help rape victims.
She has also written several books on women's issues. If you had read her succinct analysis of the "eight things wrong" with the way the Swedish legal system is handling the Assange case, or if you had at least gone to the link I provided and read it, you would have gotten a clue. Maybe. ![]() Go ahead and try to denigrate Naomi Wolf's intellegent assesments -- but be careful, you hair may catch on fire. ![]() |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #319)
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 07:29 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
322. Naomi Klein, Naomi Wolf, + women's advocacy group, question nature + purpose of Assange prosecution
Assange accuser may have ceased co-operating |
Response to msanthrope (Reply #307)
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 12:11 AM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
429. Newt Gingrich says Assange "...should be treated as an enemy combatant."
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/132037-gingrich-blames-obama-on-wikileaks-labels-assange-a-terrorist Gingrich: Leaks show Obama administration 'shallow,' 'amateurish' |
Response to msanthrope (Reply #305)
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 11:13 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
364. What?! Older articles don't inform you about history of the situation?
Doomed to repeat your projections of invalidities. |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #364)
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 01:05 PM
randome (34,845 posts)
369. Just as you seem to dismiss Assange's previous flaws.
Saying that informants deserve to be killed.
Trying to foist an edited video on the public. Letting Chelsea Manning twist in the wind. Not contesting the Swedish allegations. You are cherry-picking data that supports your hero and ignoring anything that doesn't. You have no evidence of a Sweden-U.K.-U.S.-Australia conspiracy but that doesn't stop you from pushing it as far as you can. Whereas I do have evidence that Assange is a contemptible individual, which in turn supports the idea that the Swedish issue is exactly what it appears to be. [hr][font color="blue"][center]Precision and concision. That's the game.[/center][/font][hr] |
Response to randome (Reply #369)
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 01:41 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
371. Who said informants "deserve to be killed" ???? Do you have a link? Any documentation at all?
Are you saying that Assange tried to "....foist an edited video on the public." ???? Is it intrinsically bad to edit a video, movie, or even a photo? I crop photos regularly and have edited videos to make them look better. Are you insinuating something else here? Would you like to be specific? BTW ==-- your new sig line (you seem to change them often) says, "Precision and concision. That's the game." Surely by the word "concision" you mean the archaic meaning of the word, which is "to cut off".... which is what your posts mostly do as they are far from being holistic. Instead there enters archaic "concision" which is the cutting off a little piece from the whole which makes in incomplete. The rest of your claims are not worth addressing as they are really silly. The ones I did address are barely worth answering... but you are so very narrow in your thinking that I kinda feel sorry for you. I keep hoping the bridge between your left and right brain will get repaired. Unless of course if you work for some covert ops RW assholes. ![]() |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #371)
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 06:16 PM
randome (34,845 posts)
385. He edited out the glint of an RPG in the 'Collateral Damage' video.
Even Stephen Colbert smacked him down for that: http://hotair.com/archives/2010/04/13/video-colbert-smacks-down-wikileaks-founder-over-collateral-murder-video/
And he did say that about informants. Here's one of many links, the Guardian, no less: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/sep/18/julian-assange-wikileaks-nick-cohen At least I'm wise enough to admit I don't know everything, and that I could be wrong. You, however, have no such restraint. Everything you say is true, evidence-free, because you like Julian. [hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr] |
Response to randome (Reply #385)
Thu Aug 20, 2015, 06:23 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
405. You twisted the facts in the Stephen Colbert interview randome
which was reported at a blogger site aptly called "HOT AIR".
Like you, the blogger intensely dislikes Assange. http://hotair.com/archives/2010/04/13/video-colbert-smacks-down-wikileaks-founder-over-collateral-murder-video/ In the actual video of the program Colbert was having fun like he usually does. The scene begins with an interview with Assange and the viewers laugh wildly because Colbert's head is pixilated. ![]() Here's are excerpts of the actual Colbert Report interview with Assange. The topic is the edited footage that you Randome, think is some kind of a crime. Unfortuately the Colbert interview is polluted with your HotAir blogger friend's comments so it's important to look for Colbert quotes separated by the blogger remarks, otherwise the comments can be confusing: (Comment by 'HotAir' blogger): "After a sort of jokey opening in which he had his face pixelated and voice altered Colbert got down to business." |
Response to hifiguy (Reply #54)
Thu Aug 20, 2015, 10:06 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
408. Spycraft uses lies of all types, but sex is both the honeytrap and the button pusher extraordinaire
Perfect quote:
"The allegations against Assange are a smokescreen behind which a number of governments are trying to clamp down on WikiLeaks for having audaciously revealed to the public their secret planning of wars and occupations with their attendant rape, murder and destruction... The authorities care so little about violence against women that they manipulate rape allegations at will. Assange has made it clear he is available for questioning by the Swedish authorities, in Britain or via Skype. Why are they refusing this essential step in their investigation? What are they afraid of?" http://johnpilger.com/articles/wikileaks-is-a-rare-truth-teller-smearing-julian-assange-is-shameful WikiLeaks is a rare truth-teller. Smearing Julian Assange is shameful. John Pilger |
Response to reorg (Reply #34)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 03:06 PM
msanthrope (37,549 posts)
66. w ait a second you're saying Assange was forced into penetrating a sleeping woman? nt
Response to msanthrope (Reply #66)
Post removed
Response to Post removed (Reply #76)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 03:20 PM
msanthrope (37,549 posts)
82. You are being ungentlemanly. My suggestion is that until you can refrain
From suggesting I call a convicted pedophile you take a little break from engaging me.
|
Response to msanthrope (Reply #28)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 08:29 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
151. Methinks you are ignoring the very basic sexual instincts of men, which many consider
a "weakness" to be exploited.
It is a well known strategy to target and destroy people for their sexual activities for political reasons. Doesn't that ring any bells for you? Sexual activities are scrutinized and vilified on a regular basis. Especially here in the USA where we are known to be a bunch of hypocritical idiots when it comes to sex. But Assange was most likely just being a sexual being when he was setup. It is so very possible that I would put the possibility of being setup at about 99%. Why would women make a huge public stink about his advances towards them? And, wasn't the scene that they were all in bed together to begin with? He has no record of being a rapist. Look it up, but not on Faux Noise. Get real on this. ![]() |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #151)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 09:35 PM
stevenleser (32,886 posts)
165. The possibility that this was an intelligence setup is pretty close to zero.
It's not as unlikely as the sun not rising tomorrow, but it's closer to that than to being an actual possibility.
Intel agencies take the path of least resistance to getting a job done. If the CIA or Swedish intel was out to get Assange, they would have shot him. |
Response to stevenleser (Reply #165)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 10:02 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
172. You cannot make that analysis with any certainty whatsoever. But you can look at history
and will find that if a person is famous, he will most often be kept alive by those with enormous power. The dissident may be jailed; he may be tortured; he may be maligned; and those close to him may abandon him because of the societal pressures to hate him. He might also just have all of his resources withdrawn....such as when PayPal refused to process donations to Assange.
Those in power know very well that a story about killing a famous dissident will live forever. In other words, it is incredibly stupid to make a martyr out of a famous dissident. It is normal however to kill off unknown dissidents. It happens with regularity. Or else they are fired. Or their funding is eliminated. Or lies are circulated about them that make them a pariah. But you already know these things in your heart.... and brain right? ![]() |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #172)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 10:05 PM
stevenleser (32,886 posts)
173. Sure I can. The nonsense posited here is a virtual impossibility. The CIA does not have time for
this garbage for someone who is a non threat like Assange.
The CIA is busy tracking the members of ISIS and Al Qaeda and infiltrating those organizations and their affiliates and trying to prevent the next terrorist attack on the US. They are keeping an eye on Russia and China and the nonsense those countries are engaged in. There are about a hundred thousand more serious threats to the US than Assange. I'll bet significant parts of the CIA have never even heard of him. |
Response to stevenleser (Reply #173)
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 03:04 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
209. Reality check Mr. Leser. You need to read the book, Confessions of an Economic Hit Man
Last edited Sat Aug 15, 2015, 10:50 PM - Edit history (4) Confessions of an Economic Hit Man by John Perkins is an eye opener as to the extraordinary extent our government will go to protect the 1/10%'s economic interests.
The CIA and NSA recruit people all over the world to do their work, just like they recruited John Perkins to do their dirty work. It is well known, and Perkins says it again in the video interview below, that the common modus operadi in the recruitment game is to use what traditionally works -- gifts of irresistible sex, money and power. They usually have a handle on what weaknesses are available to exploit. And the CIA and NSA are not so busy that they can only focus on ISIS and AlQaeda which is what you suggested. They have always had time to do what it takes to make it possible for the 1/10 % and large multi-national corporations to make trillions of dollars. Here's an interview with "Economic Hit Man" John Perkins: There are hundreds of other books and articles written by courageous Truth to Power individuals about similar topics. To me it appears that you have lost your sense of our history of murder and mahem which the US uses often to get what it wants. It seems impossible to me that you didn't know about it. But I do know that too much of the public is unaware, and want to stay that way. Mostly they are RW folks, but it's also true of some folks on DU seem to have a very narrow focus of the world. Mainly they side with the authoritarian view of those already in power. Maybe they are afraid they will become a target, or maybe they have a very low IQ. Admittedly, it's so much more peaceful (for the moment) to just politely salute the red, white and blue and let the eyes glaze over. DU has often posted writings of US Marine Corps major general Smedly Butler, author of "War is a Racket". At the time of his service he held the highest rank available in the U.S. Marine Corps and according to him, he sincerely thought for years that he was fighting for God and country. As time went on he became more and more disillusioned. Then he shocked many, especially the USMC and the US government, when he confessed in his book and in many speeches that he finally came to realize what he was really doing when he went to war and killed people. He said he did it so that large corporations could enter those countries and make a lot of money without too much trouble from its citizens. In some ways Butler was the Assange of his age. He was horribly villified and many ugly efforts were made to discredit him. Don't you think that by Assange's publishing those strategic communications that his actions become a huge threat to the 1/10%? Those are people who have the power to off anyone they wish or to neutralize them by putting them in jail for bogus charges. Or neutralizing their access to mass commincations such as an Internet site. That's one of the many reasons Assange simultaneously became so skilled at escaping capture or murder. Firstly he knew that becoming world famous offers protection because when the world is curious about you, it is safe to say that the gun won't be pointed directly at your head. The next step is to disappear and become Anonymous. His skill of disappearing for long periods with no way to track him is a very good strategy for Assange. I fear the day he is "released" from his current situation of accusations of rape. Will he then be publicly available for targeting? Our government, says he violated US secrets and wants to jail him. Imagine the basics of the urge by the rich and powerful to nullify him. The complaint to nullify him is based on an alleged rape. But the picture is this: he was in bed with a woman who lives in the apartment Assange was invited to stay in during his visit. That same woman gave a party for him the night of the alleged "rape". But she reports in the legal documents that they went to bed after the party and had consensual sex. This she acknowleges. After they have already been sexually intimate, in the middle of the night or thereabouts, they were still in bed together and Assange initiates further sexual activity. Does their being in bed together suggest a kind of implicit permission of any sort? I don't know about you, but if I'm in bed with someone of the opposite sex it often happens that there is action in the middle of the night and one or the other of us is wakened by sexual desire of the partner, often triggered by a nudge from the other with an intimate touch. And in fact the legal documents scrutinizing this case make the point that the woman who allowed him in her bed and apartment as a guest, did not resist his sexual advances despite the fact that he may not have been wearing a condom. And the condom it turns out, according to legal documents. was her main concern, although the legal documents also say that after he expressed desire for further sex with her that she did not resist his advances. There was more than one woman that Assange had sex with while in Sweden. Please just read the legal documents which say that neither of the women he slept with in Sweden claimed "rape", but only wanted him to be tested for veneral disease. An aside for those who are indignant that the alleged "rape" in that case, despite the women's denial of rape.......instead of frothing at the mouth to take Assage to court on obviously bogus charges, why not prosecute the thousands of real rapes in the US that never go to trial, and where thousands of rape kits are not even tested? Give those thousands of real rape victims a freaking break and stop buying into this extraordinary intimate circumstance that the "powers chose as a reason to trump up a reason to extradite and jail Assange! BTW, talking about WikiLeaks and anger from the 1/10 of 1 percent powerful elites. What do you think the Arab Spring was all about? It was because of the release of Assange's WikiLeaks telling the truth about how their leaders were sucking the blood out of Egypt and surrounding countries while living lives of obscene luxury. The populus ran into the streets and screamed for change, and with their cell phones created a living movement network in reaction to having been lied to for so long. Please remember that these 1/10% leeches who are so often the topic of the WikiLeaks, do NOT limit themselves to sucking the blood out of US citizens. Any person is a target. Any country and its resources are targets. It is said that "The truth shall set you free", but the reality is that if it costs somebody money you will most likely be punished for telling the truth and that is why Assange should be considered a hero. But since we are being brainwashed continually by those who have a lot to lose, any activist, including Assange become a target if it costs the 1/10% a bundle. If it does, you'd better go hide and find asylum in some sympathetic country that has also been screwed by the USA--like Ecuador for example. Cmon Mr. Lesser, you need to admit to yourself that the truth can often be dangerous to those people who have a lot to lose. Those are the ones who pay propaganda machines and publicity firms to cover what their really doing with palatable lies. Just remember that Assange's "leaks" were the communications of our own government officials who conspired with other governments and corporations to do what they did. It caused an uproar worldwide amongst people who were angry when they discovered the depth and breadth of the lies they had been told for many years. AHHHH..... the TRUTH The following is taken from http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/truth "In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell "Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either."-- Albert Einstein One of my favorites: “Above all, don't lie to yourself. The man who lies to himself and listens to his own lie comes to a point that he cannot distinguish the truth within him, or around him, and so loses all respect for himself and for others. And having no respect he ceases to love.” ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky, The Brothers Karamazov And here's a more current statement in a script for role played by Jack Nicolson when he said to Tom Cruise in "A Few Good Men", "You want the truth? You can't take the truth!" That seems to fit the psyche of too many naysayer DUers in this thread: On, here's one of my very favorite quotes about truth: "I'm for truth, no matter who tells it. I'm for justice, no matter who it's for or against." - Malcolm X ![]() |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #209)
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 03:09 PM
stevenleser (32,886 posts)
211. There are all kinds of books written alleging all kinds of stuff. That doesn't make them true.
The Arab Spring was a national security risk to the leaders of those countries, not to the United States.
And finally, Assange is no threat to the 1%. I know this conspiracy theory is irresistible to some folks. First, it protects their sacred cow, and it's exciting intrigue. But it doesn't come close to being possible. |
Response to stevenleser (Reply #211)
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 05:21 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
216. Anyone who doesn't believe in conspiracy theory
has closed his eyes to the true ways of the world.
And as usual you missed my point about the Assange WikiLeaks being a main trigger for the Arab Spring. No threat to the 1%? Do you even have a clue where the big money resides in this world? Nope, of course not. Please don't reply to me anymore. It is dull work replying to you. I'd prefer a real challenge. |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #216)
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 10:15 PM
stevenleser (32,886 posts)
233. I believe some conspiracies happen sure. This simply isn't a plausible one.
Again, I understand why it is so compelling for some folks.
The problem is, it simply doesn't make sense at all. Assange is not a threat to the government or to the national security of the United States. He's at best a minor irritant to a few folks, but so are hundreds of other journalists. Now, if he had done the same thing to Russia he would Have been shot several years ago, but Russia's intelligence folks kill journalists who criticize the government and opposition leaders for sport and with very little provocation. |
Response to stevenleser (Reply #233)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 11:28 AM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
412. OMG -- no wonder corporations and the Rove people want to neutralize Assange
Wikileaks released TISA docs that nix public ownership of banks and open doors for massive privitization schemes all over the world.
I found one of these items in a post by WillyT in a June 2015 entry entitled: "In Case You Missed This... 'Fast-Track Hands The Money Monopoly To Private Banks — Permanently'" which linked to a WikiLeaks story here: SNIP Here's the link to information about the 16 WikiLeaks TISA documents: http://www.newrepublic.com/article/121967/whats-really-going-trade-services-agreement SNIP "Though member parties insist that the agreement would simply stop discrimination against foreign service providers, the text shows that TiSA would restrict how governments can manage their public laws through an effective regulatory cap. It could also dismantle and privatize state-owned enterprises, and turn those services over to the private sector. You begin to sound like the guy hanging out in front of the local food co-op passing around leaflets about One World Government when you talk about TiSA, but it really would clear the way for further corporate domination over sovereign countries and their citizens." SNIP |
Response to stevenleser (Reply #211)
Sat Aug 15, 2015, 05:38 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
241. You said "Arab Spring was a national security risk to leaders of those countries, not to the US"
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() The 1/10% of the world are NOT just invested in the US --- but all over the world including the middle east, china, Europe, etc. But you know that right? ![]() |
Response to stevenleser (Reply #165)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 02:28 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
415. But Joe Biden said Assange is a "terrorist". Do you think the CIA heard him? Read this:
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/12/31/pentagon_whistleblower_daniel_ellsberg_julian_assange
Pentagon Whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg: Julian Assange is Not a Terrorist SNIP --- Go to above link for the rest of a lengthy interview with Amy Goodman. |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #151)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 09:37 PM
randome (34,845 posts)
167. He has a history of admitting to the accusations.
I guess Obama and the CIA made him do that, too.
![]() [hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it. So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font][hr] |
Response to randome (Reply #167)
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 03:08 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
210. Where is your documentation for these admissions? I'd like to see the
exact quotes, or better yet a videotaped confession.
You know as well as I do that it does not exist. |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #210)
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 08:49 PM
randome (34,845 posts)
227. See msanthrope's link regarding the transcripts.
You can read, right?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesn’t always set you free. Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in.[/center][/font][hr] |
Response to randome (Reply #227)
Sat Aug 15, 2015, 05:44 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
242. If you read the transcript you refer to you would have to admit that you're wrong. Look at your
sig line that says:
"I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it. So then I'm right about being wrong. " Well.................... ![]() ![]() |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #242)
Sat Aug 15, 2015, 09:41 PM
randome (34,845 posts)
255. You can read, right? Below is a snippet. Assange is not contesting the allegations.
He's contesting that the actions don't amount to rape. But the U.K. agrees with Sweden that a rape by any other name is still rape.
There are four allegations as set out in box (e) of the warrant: The difference between us, I think, is that I will always admit to the possibility of being wrong about something. I may not have all the information I need. I don't see that same outlook from you. You simply know that a world-wide grand conspiracy is behind an attempt to 'get' Assange because you like him. That's not evidence of anything. [hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures. The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this: "Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr] |
Response to randome (Reply #255)
Sat Aug 15, 2015, 11:52 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
261. Unless you can provide a link, your post is trash to me.
What you very obviously continue to ignore, no matter what the source of your information is --is the fact that dissidents including Assange, are routinely targeted by the rich and powerful because documenting the truth about how the 1/10% operates is a threat to their power, position, and money.
Assange revealed the lies and plots to rig an international system of politics and moneymaking. That is big stuff and if you were in the position of the 1/10 percent, you would be royally pissed, instead of piss-ant pissed. The spelling in your item looks like it was written by a Brit. Brits have a lot to lose by defending Assange, or even attempting to facilitate real justice for him. They go with the US modus operandi on a regular basis because the Brits and the US have so much in common, economically and politically. If you continue to deny that it is the normal modus operandi of our government, and other governments, to protect the rich and powerful by destroying dissidents who threaten their curtained lies so they can protect their power and money, then you are wading in deep dummy water. Show us the link to the "warrant" you posted so we can see the source -- or kiss your credibility goodbye forever. Even if that if that statement really did come from UK authorities, that they are obligated to protect the 1/10% as is the USA and other complicit governments. The super rich and super powerful are very, very angry and horrified by the WikiLeaks revelations about their lies and rigging. They live all over the world, and in fact own most of it. BTW, the entire snippets you quoted look like cheap porn written by someone who knows how to inflame emotions from people who are vulnerable and horrified by explicit sexual descriptions. Even normal lovemaking would make many vulnerable people puke if it is described in detail. Pushing buttons is a typical tactic propaganda spewers. Give me the link! ![]() |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #261)
Sun Aug 16, 2015, 04:27 PM
randome (34,845 posts)
282. I already told you it comes from msanthrope's previous link.
Last edited Sun Aug 16, 2015, 07:04 PM - Edit history (1) Here it is again, for like the fourth time in this thread: http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/world/20110224-Britain-Ruling-Assange-Extradition-to-Sweden.pdf
You can say you've won this debate, however. It's not worth my time to keep presenting you with this link you apparently can't read. You are determined to assume that there is a grand, world-wide conspiracy to 'get' Assange without any evidence other than your desire to think that. As I said before, we will have this same conversation next year and the year after that and the year after that. Because your beloved Julian is a coward and you want to believe everything he says. [hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr] |
Response to randome (Reply #255)
Sun Aug 16, 2015, 10:13 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
293. Don't you understand randome, Julian Assange was never CHARGED with these allegations
You seem to have difficulty seeing through the delaying tactics used by the Swedish prosecutor. Now we come to find out that Carl Rove is advising the Swedish government about this case because he wants Assange extradited to the US for espionage to protect his 1/10% friends who own him and most of the world. You really are using the narrowest lens to see this story and its implications. |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #293)
Sun Aug 16, 2015, 11:28 PM
cemaphonic (4,138 posts)
298. Yeah that's some genius legal tactic there
Delay the prosecution until the statute of limitations runs out. Those crafty Swedes.
Or it could be that the delay has something to do with Assange hiding out in the embassy, outside of Swedish jurisdiction for the last 3 years. |
Response to cemaphonic (Reply #298)
AikidoSoul This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to cemaphonic (Reply #298)
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 07:04 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
321. Swedish prosecution drops 2 of 4 allegations against Assange due to statute of limitations expiry
This tactic of dropping the allegations after five years has more to do with being the result of their ongoing strategy. By delaying it until allegations could be dropped, Assange would not be given the chance to prove his innocence in court. He had tried repeatedly to get the Swedish prosecutor Ny, to set up an interview which then might follow with an official charge, but she repeatedly failed to arrange for him to be questioned. These people did NOT want him to be vindicated. They wanted him to remain of "questionable character."
Swedish prosecutors have withdrawn two sex crime allegations against WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange after they expired under statute of limitations law. One more allegation is due to expire on August 18, while a fourth and final one will remain in force for years to come.
Please notice that the word "allegation" is used throughout for a simple reason -- Assange WAS NEVER CHARGED with crimes related to those allegations. And is well known that the Swedish prosecutor repeatedly refused to interview him, both in Sweden and England. She has been accused by many legal experts of refusing to pursue the case in order to keep Assange in Limbo, for political reasons. |
Response to randome (Reply #255)
Sun Aug 16, 2015, 10:15 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
294. Don't you understand randome, Julian Assange was never CHARGED with these allegations
![]() You seem to have difficulty seeing through the delaying tactics used by the Swedish prosecutor. Now we come to find out that Carl Rove is advising the Swedish government about this case because he wants Assange extradited to the US for espionage to protect his 1/10% friends who own him and most of the world. You really are using the narrowest lens to see this story and its implications. |
Response to msanthrope (Reply #28)
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 04:58 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
214. Look, Assange was staying at the apartment of one of the women he had sex with.
Last edited Sat Aug 15, 2015, 09:52 PM - Edit history (2) She admits she had sex with him. And so did the other woman he had sex with while in Sweden. Neither of them accused him of rape. They told the police that they simply wanted him tested for venereal disease because they thought the sex may have been "unprotected". The police asked if Assange had raped them and they said no.
In Sweden police and prosecutorial apparatus don't need the "victim's" permission to conduct an investigation. Even if a sexual partner denies that rape took place, the police can file it as a rape case because sexual conduct laws in Sweden are designated as "public prosecution laws." But when asked to sign the government's rape accusation papers, the women refused. The Swedish prosecutor issued a warrant for Assange's arrest the very night after the women asked for the medical testing. There is much foolishness on DU by those who consider Sweden to really be a "neutral" country, but it's an image Sweden likes to foster. The US ambassador to Sweden uses the flimsy neutrality status as a convenient image to convey a badge of trust. That's partly how they convinced the US and her partners of Sweden’s "neutral status" when providing intelligence to our government on the Iranian nuclear project. The truth is that they have long been in bed with the US for strong economic and military security reasons. For that, you will have to read some history. Sweden would gladly destroy Assange for the benefit of US interests, a/k/a the interests of the 1/10 %. ![]() |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #214)
Sat Aug 15, 2015, 07:14 PM
hifiguy (33,688 posts)
247. Oops. You're telling a bunch of inconvenient truths.
Prepare to be swarmed by our resident trolls.
|
Response to msanthrope (Reply #28)
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 05:34 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
348. Has there ever been a man pursued like this for such nonsense?
Julian Assange is doing a much better job of telling the truth than thousands he's exposed for lying.
I cannot understand why some DUers refuse to realize that it's Assange's WikiLeaks that are the reason that so many powerful people will do anything to destroy him. |
Response to hifiguy (Reply #25)
Sun Aug 16, 2015, 10:24 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
295. Julian Assange: The Untold Story Of An Epic Struggle For Justice
https://newmatilda.com/2015/07/31/julian-assange-untold-story-epic-struggle-justice
![]() Those doubting the degree of ruthlessness Assange can expect should remember the forcing down of the Bolivian president's plane in 2013 - wrongly believed to be carrying Edward Snowden. |
Response to hifiguy (Reply #25)
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 12:04 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
432. Vladimir Putin criticizes the detention and motives to frame Assange
http://www.smh.com.au//breaking-news-world/putin-leads-backlash-over-wikileaks-boss-detention-20101209-18rgi.html Putin leads backlash over WikiLeaks boss detention |
Response to msanthrope (Reply #23)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 02:44 PM
reorg (3,317 posts)
33. So you and the other poster are Assange supporters,
and you are steadfast in your belief he is 'on the right side of the spectrum'?
Forgive me if I'm ROFL. |
Response to reorg (Reply #33)
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 03:11 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
212. So someone with great courage, who is also brilliant, risks his life
and reputation and that makes you laugh?
It doesn't seem that you respect the notion that US citizens are entitled to the truth in our so called democracy. ![]() |
Response to reorg (Reply #33)
Thu Aug 20, 2015, 09:16 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
407. I'm in good company as far as supporters go, both here
in this thread, and by the organizations that have given him many awards and recognition for his courage and achievements.
For the list of those awards.... see post 466. ![]() |
Response to hifiguy (Reply #16)
Sat Aug 15, 2015, 04:48 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
240. Jeez....it must be frustrating to have to deal with this kind of
non-sequiter distraction from your most excellent and collectible post.
Is Reply #16 simply a strategic distraction? A case of brain damage? A person chronically exposed to comic books as reading material as a child? Was he a child who went to a military school where they beat the shit out of dissident students? Was he a child of a military captain type authoritarian who spanked the crap of him for having an opinion? Was he a former member of the military who was brainwashed to the point that he does not have thoughts he can call his own? Am still trying to figure this stuff out. Wish there was some history on each of the posters. I want to continue posting to DU, but there are SO FEW OF YOU hifyguy. ![]() It seems awfully lonely here! ![]() |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #240)
Sat Aug 15, 2015, 05:58 PM
hifiguy (33,688 posts)
243. Du has really devolved in the last few years.
Last edited Sat Aug 15, 2015, 06:57 PM - Edit history (1) The miserble, shitty, inexcusable Witchfinders General, who can find "misogynist" conspiracy in the statement "I really like cats" have been allowed to run roughshod for years without ever getting the tombstones that should have been handed out long, long ago. Their word and idea policing and alert-stalking led met to leave DU for a year beginning in summer 2013. But there are too many wonderful people here and I will not be run off: Cal Peggy, Octafish, WillyT, Warren deMontague, SCE, LynneSin, Miles Archer, the Bernie group and so many others I like and respect. they make my world a better place and I will not let the shrieking assholes deprive me of their company.
The original Witchfinders General have now been joined by an equally deranged bunch of idiots who can find racism in the same statement. My personal approach is to avoid dealing with these morons, who are as incorregibly imbecilic and simple-minded as any other kind of fundy. Fuck them all, with a red-hot poker. They are not true liberals/progressives/socialists. They are totalitarian shitheels. They are just single-minded, single-issue ideologues who deserve all the scorn that can be poured upon them. Scorn which I will happily continue to pour at every opportunity. ![]() And that's that. |
Response to hifiguy (Reply #243)
Sat Aug 15, 2015, 09:34 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
254. Thank you for the explanation and especially your committment to stay
on DU to enjoy the company and intelligence of those who are worthy of respect.
I was glad to see that some of the more respected DUers did come to your thread to support you by making cogent remarks. The Assange story is a very important one. I was happy to participate. I'm worried about Assange's future. To me he is a hero, but doubt that enough people will understand his significance in our lifetime to give him the supreme reward of being vindicated for educating the public so that we can take appropriate steps to right the wrongs that continue...and in fact are getting worse each day. Your comments about the devolution of DU are on target. I lurked here for awhile and it seemed OK to start posting things, but I frankly have been horrified at the responses I get to many of my threads. And since it happens repeatedly I have often shied away from starting threads on DU. It seems that the same DUers show up everytime I write about toxic injury -- a topic that I know well. DU has a bad reputation for being a forum where scientific discussions devolve into shallow, uneducated attacks with very little valid documentation. There is adequate evidence that many posters are paid by groups and corporations to create controversy about topics that if the truth is known, would cost them a lot of $$. The paid posters create "Google Alerts" with key words which instantly surface in their emails so they can immediately go on the attack. There are plenty of Liars for Hire funded by chem/pharm. Many of them are scientists. Even chairs of universities' and their departments are funded heavily and kept in line by wealthy corporations. I only liason with independent researchers and scientists who are horrified at what is happening to our brains, DNA, behavior, etc. When I do post something about toxic injury I've noticed that ugly comments surface within a couple of minutes. Usually it's a short sentence or two denigrating the post with ugly, frivilous comments. Unfortunately, when other DUers see the first four or five petty attacks, most of them just back off and the post dies a quiet death probably because it just looks so ugly and un-appealing. If they didn't shy away and stayed to fight the battle, it would perhaps help to keep the Witchfinders at bay. I wish there were more people who are educated about toxic injury. Toxic injury is one of the main reasons why people are so incredibly stupid in the USA. Recently I posted an important international study documenting the fact that citizens of the US have nearly four hundred times as many early onset dementia deaths as other countries. There are good reasons for that. Ubiquitous neurotoxins reduce IQ. That has been repeatedly proven scientifically. But like lemmings, despite the scientific revelations, we continue to bombard ourselves with neurotoxic chemicals in almost everything we touch, eat, wear and breathe! Europe will not allow approximately 30,000 of the nearly 90,000 synthetic chemicals in the market. The U.S. has no such restrictions. I pray that Bernie gets some real security soon. I'm uneasy about looking to one person (along with Elizabeth Warren and a few others) to lead us into a different direction, but in my lifetime Bernie is the only presidential candidate that seems to understand and articulate the enormous problems that we now face. I give Martin Luther King, Jimmy Carter, Bobby Kennedy and Jack Kennedy and others who made it to the top leadership a lot of credit for doing much to make the world a better place. But it's a much more dangerous time now and the challenges are much more dangerous. What is good and different I think is that many more of us know how we got where we are, and the tactics used to rig the system. So while we have an awful lot of dumbasses in our midst, at least the information is more available now than ever before. If you have a decent IQ and are capable of critical and lateral thinking... the political/economic realities come into sharper focus. I know you are not religious, and while I was raised a Catholic and went to parochial schools -- I never felt much in the way of admiration for Catholic religious leaders with the exception of those who died in Central America trying to find justice for the poor and afflicted. But now there is Pope Francis, and he has teamed up with Naoimi Klein in an effort to create a palatable message about the urgency of doing something about climate change. That excites me greatly. Francis is the only pope I've ever seen in my lifetime who represents the teachings of Christ by doing his best to emulate His behavior. This of course, as you already know, can be boiled down to "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". Thank you very much for doing the work that you do. When I can, I wil join in to offer support to keep the discussion going. I think you have valuable contributions to make to our often frustrating discussion forum. ![]() |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #254)
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 01:09 AM
hifiguy (33,688 posts)
301. Thanks. There are a lot of good, very smart people here
from whom I have learned much. The HRH fanboys/girls seem to be going all out attacking Bernie supporters everywhere outside the Sanders group.
It has been a real pleasure to make your acquaintance on this thread. Rock on, AS. ![]() |
Response to msanthrope (Reply #14)
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 01:48 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
372. Why can't you admit that Assange is being targeted by Karl Rove and Company
Why the distraction doo doo about Scott Ritter?
![]() http://www.swedishwire.com/politics/8048-karl-rove-behind-swedens-hunt-for-assange ![]() Former Bush White House strategist Karl Rove may be a leading role in the try to prosecute WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, according to sources for several legal experts. |
Response to hifiguy (Reply #8)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 02:21 PM
randome (34,845 posts)
26. How is he a threat? He's a narcissistic buffoon!
Wikileaks disowned him when he said he didn't care if informants suffered because of him.
Think of all the conspiracy players you imagine and I can't for the life of me understand how you can sustain this: Australia The Swedish justice system The Swedish appeals court The Swedish women The U.K. justice system The U.K. appeals court The U.S. Do you seriously think that all these countries and people are working in concert simply to 'get' Assange? [hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr] |
Response to randome (Reply #26)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 02:46 PM
reorg (3,317 posts)
35. Of course, as a former or current member
of the military it is totally impossible for you to imagine that NATO partners may cooperate, their intelligence services included.
|
Response to reorg (Reply #35)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 02:54 PM
randome (34,845 posts)
46. What do intelligence services have to do with courts of law?
How many people do you believe that Obama is blackmailing in order to 'get' Assange? 50? 100? I'm sorry, to believe that all these people are working in concert with one another is a foolish notion based on wanting to believe in heroes instead of looking at things as they really are.
Or as they appear to be. The facts, since Assange admitted to the acts of which he is accused, are not in dispute. [hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr] |
Response to randome (Reply #46)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 03:02 PM
hifiguy (33,688 posts)
56. The FBI framed Ethel Rosenberg
and tried to frame MLK as only the most prominent examples I can think of.
No, LEOs and spies would never frame anyone. ![]() |
Response to hifiguy (Reply #56)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 03:09 PM
randome (34,845 posts)
72. And you base this on the word of a man accused of a crime?
Well, accused rapists would never try to invent an excuse for their actions, would they?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr] |
Response to randome (Reply #72)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 03:25 PM
hifiguy (33,688 posts)
84. So someone who has been ACCUSED, but not CONVICTED
of a crime is by nature untrustworthy. OK. Accusation w/oconviction = guilt. You have some nasty authoritarian tendencies.
![]() "If you're a suspect, of course that means you're not innocent." Reagan Attorney General Edwin Meese |
Response to hifiguy (Reply #84)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 04:33 PM
zeemike (18,998 posts)
111. It is a waste of time to try to reason with a lynch mob.
They have already convicted him in their mind.
And hear we go again...the same people with the same reason why they know he is guilty because the accusers would never lie...and neither does the CIA and FBI. |
Response to zeemike (Reply #111)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 04:38 PM
hifiguy (33,688 posts)
113. Indeed.
I remember a couple of years ago when a mob consisting of many of the same members swarmed SCE's Sunday LOLCats over a suposedly "misogynist" cartoon he posted and nearly drove that wonderful chap and DU instituition away from DU.
And that in itself speaks volumes about this particular mob. Tiny angry people with tiny angry one-track minds. |
Response to hifiguy (Reply #113)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 04:48 PM
zeemike (18,998 posts)
116. Yep I remember that fiasco.
As it turned out WE got angry at the lynch mob and saved a wonderful DU institution.
I think it is basically a case of power corupting...when a mob forms they feel powerful and need to exercises it. Fairness and reason never enters their mind. |
Response to zeemike (Reply #116)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 05:21 PM
hifiguy (33,688 posts)
122. They have been allowed to bully and shout down people for a long while.
And for the life of me I cannot understand why it has been permitted.
|
Response to hifiguy (Reply #122)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 06:19 PM
zeemike (18,998 posts)
126. One can only speculate.
But we are all equal, but some are more equal than others.
|
Response to hifiguy (Reply #113)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 11:02 PM
Kali (53,889 posts)
177. uh, if I recall that was one whacky person that went after SCE and
I believe they have been subsequently banned (though I don't remember if it was for that incident or something a bit later)
it was not a mob |
Response to zeemike (Reply #111)
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 05:12 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
215. You took the words out of my mouth zeemike. It's a waste of precious time to argue with
those folks who cannot, for whatever their reasons, see the facts as they stand, or the patterns that have played out over and over again of activists being targeted and destroyed for telling the truth which cost somebody with power and influence.
I've stopped replying to these absolutist "thinkers" who have linear views of their tiny world. ![]() |
Response to hifiguy (Reply #84)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 08:09 PM
randome (34,845 posts)
145. If he won't face his accusers, he can never be convicted.
How hard is that to understand? Objectivity means letting the evidence speak for itself. Assange seems to think that his word trumps everyone else's. He's already admitted to the accusations.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it. So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font][hr] |
Response to randome (Reply #145)
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 03:47 AM
hifiguy (33,688 posts)
183. You really think he would get a fair trial?
What color is the sky in your world, anyway?
|
Response to hifiguy (Reply #183)
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 07:52 AM
randome (34,845 posts)
189. Right again. Fully half the world is engaged in this grand conspiracy theory of yours.
You ignore the fact that Assange admitted to the accusations.
You ignore the fact that he was free in the U.K. for two years before hiding in Ecuador. You ignore the fact that he let Chelsea Manning go to jail instead of helping her. You ignore the fact that he tried to foist an edited video on the public. You ignore the fact that even his native country, Australia, doesn't come to his aid. Your slavish hero worship is sad to see. And in the end, nothing will change. Assange will still be hiding out in Ecuador and we will be having this same conversation next year and the year after that and the year after that. [hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesn’t always set you free. Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in.[/center][/font][hr] |
Response to randome (Reply #145)
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 07:56 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
224. You have not documented a damned thing
and neither have you documented your criticisms and claims about the "rapes" and the court documents. Your comments have basically twisted this entire topic into an unknown shape.
Fortunately, it seems most of the DUers here can see through you. If you can't document what you say.... then please desist. You may be the first person I've ever put on IGNORE --- |
Response to randome (Reply #72)
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 05:27 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
217. Randome, I suggest you follow the advice of your sig line. Get a very good, very, very
LONG night's sleep.
How about going to bed now? ![]() |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #217)
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 08:46 PM
randome (34,845 posts)
226. Well, that's certainly a cogent debating point, isn't it?
![]() [hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesn’t always set you free. Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in.[/center][/font][hr] |
Response to hifiguy (Reply #56)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 06:27 PM
stevenleser (32,886 posts)
128. The FBI are not foreign spies, they are a domestic law enforcement organization. nt
Response to stevenleser (Reply #128)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 06:35 PM
hifiguy (33,688 posts)
134. Ask Ethel Rosenberg how much difference that made.
Oh, that's right, she was executed for something she did not do. The FBI tried to frame MLK and virtually every other civil rights leader during the 1960s. They infiltrated and disrupted countless anti-war groups in the same period. They spied on peace groups all through the 1980s and they spy on Occupy today.
The CIA's record of madness, beginning with the overthrow of Mohammed Mossadegh in 1953, is an open book for anyone who seeks to read it. Assassination attempts directed at Castro ringin' any bells? The CIA participated in the overthrow of Patrice Lumumba, directly brought about the overthrow and assassination of Salvador Allende, an operation overseen by Hillary's good buddy Henry Kissinger, backed Reagan's wars in Central America and helped get the Taliban off the ground when they were just scattered mujahadin. Anyone who thinks the CIA could not be and is not behind the Assange business up to its elbows is fooling only themself. That is what history teaches. |
Response to hifiguy (Reply #134)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 06:37 PM
stevenleser (32,886 posts)
135. Ethel Rosenberg isnt the issue. You are using what a different agency did to make your point. And
it is wrong to do so.
|
Response to stevenleser (Reply #135)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 06:41 PM
hifiguy (33,688 posts)
137. The meta-point is a simple one:
The United States has always used intelligence and law-enforcement agencies to persecute dissenters by any and all means possible, right up to assassination.
Historical truth. |
Response to hifiguy (Reply #137)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 06:56 PM
stevenleser (32,886 posts)
138. First off, Assange isn't a dissenter. He's not a US citizen. This isn't a movie or a cartoon.
The FBI is not the CIA and even the FBI is not the J. Edgar Hoover FBI of Ethel Rosenberg times. The various inaccuracies and liberties you take with your analogies and analysis may work for some folks but it doesn't work for me.
Having actually spoken with folks in intelligence agencies I can tell you that they are very no-nonsense folks. They are certainly not above an elaborate conspiracy scheme if that is what it takes to accomplish something but that is a last resort. The first and most likely action that any intelligence agency would take against someone who poses enough of a security risk that they are tasked to deal with them is to shoot that person. And there would have been no reason not to do that in Assange's case if the CIA had been assigned to deal with him. The rape charge accomplishes nothing that silencing him permanently several years ago wouldnt have accomplished and would have done better. The bigger problem you have is that Assange isn't one one thousandth the national security threat that would have gotten the CIA ordered to take action against him. The CIA is overtasked with trying to prevent the next terrorist attack. They are tracking tens of thousands of people all over the globe, trying to infiltrate and track every Al-Qaeda and ISIS affiliate and on top of that Russia and China are behaving badly and they are a big concern. Assange is nothing compared to any of that. |
Response to stevenleser (Reply #138)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 02:05 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
414. But don't forget, Joe Biden called Assange a "terrorist".
![]() Joe Biden must be a tool. I used to think highly of him, but no more. ![]() |
Response to hifiguy (Reply #137)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 08:25 PM
elias49 (4,259 posts)
149. Sure have.
But a jingoist is a jingoist.
Or maybe it's extreme naiveté. |
Response to hifiguy (Reply #137)
Thu Aug 20, 2015, 04:52 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
404. Justice Department officials privately described investigation as being "unprecedented in scale
http://www.smh.com.au/world/assange-targeted-by-fbi-probe-us-court-documents-reveal-20140520-38l1p.html Assange targeted by FBI probe, US court documents reveal SNIP |
Response to stevenleser (Reply #128)
Sat Aug 15, 2015, 11:05 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
258. Bwaa hahaha, OMG do you really think that's true? Here's the link to the FBI's international website
Holy tamale stevenlesser, the FBI has had international offices for NEARLY SEVENTY YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!
![]() https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/international_operations TINY SNIP: Crime and terror have gone global. And so have we. Stevenleser you need to start educating yourself instead of embarrassing yourself. ![]() |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #258)
Sat Aug 15, 2015, 11:22 PM
stevenleser (32,886 posts)
259. Do you understand what all of that means? I doubt it, in fact I am sure you don't. From YOUR link...
--------------------------------------------------- Do you really not understand the difference between that and an intelligence organization? |
Response to stevenleser (Reply #259)
Sat Aug 15, 2015, 11:59 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
262. Wow. You are really a crazy expert in twisting things around. A real gobbledegook expert.
You basically just reposted my post that countered your claim that the FBI only has jurisdiction in the USA.
I proved you wrong. And then you twisted it into a poopy knot. O.K. You are on ignore. YOU ARE THE FIRST PERSON I'VE EVER PUT ON IGNORE! You are an enormous waste of time for any serious person with half a brain. ![]() |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #262)
Sun Aug 16, 2015, 12:03 AM
stevenleser (32,886 posts)
263. You didn't prove me wrong, you proved you dont know the difference between a law enforcement agency
and an intelligence agency.
And you are embarrassed by that so you are putting me on ignore. Which I think is great btw. Please proceed! |
Response to stevenleser (Reply #259)
Sun Aug 16, 2015, 01:10 AM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
267. The FBI works both domestic and foreign intelligence
I know your intention is to obfuscate but, it just won't work on me.
Maybe others will be naiive and eat your poopy distortions. Here's the quote from the FBI's website once again. It's only the portion relevant to your distorted claim. But hey....if you actually went to the FBI link I provided they go into more detail...if that's not too much work for you. For nearly seven decades, the FBI has stationed special agents and other personnel overseas to help protect Americans back home by building relationships with principal law enforcement, intelligence, and security services around the globe that help ensure a prompt and continuous exchange of information. I highlighted the areas that seem to have leaked out of your consciousness. Intelligence is the exchange of credible information... something you need to do more of. ![]() Maybe you should notify the FBI and inform them that they're only a domestic law enforcement agency and not allowed to do foreign intelligence gathering. They will probably either laugh at you or investigate you. Or both. Or maybe you are one of them? ![]() OK... I'm not going to put on on IGNORE only because I don't want you or anybody else to think that my silence means that I agree with you. That will probably will never happen! |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #267)
Sun Aug 16, 2015, 02:02 AM
stevenleser (32,886 posts)
268. LOL, I thought you put me on ignore...
Now we are getting somewhere.
The FBI does not do foreign intelligence. They do domestic counter-intelligence. That is they seek to defeat spying that other countries are doing here, yes. But they are not an intelligence organization. Their liaisons overseas are to assist in domestic law enforcement here in the US. Eventually you will get it. Keep trying. |
Response to stevenleser (Reply #268)
Sun Aug 16, 2015, 12:37 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
271. You need to read FBI public docs. The FBI can do more foreign intelligence since the Patriot Act
https://www.fbi.gov/news/testimony/usa-patriot-act-amendments-to-foreign-intelligence-surveillance-act-authorities Alberto R. Gonzales and Robert S. Mueller, III |
Response to stevenleser (Reply #268)
Sun Aug 16, 2015, 12:40 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
272. As I explained, putting you on IGNORE would give the impression
that I agreed with you if I didn't at least object to your distorted views.
Silence is often interpreted as "agreement". That sure won't happen..... ![]() |
Response to stevenleser (Reply #268)
Sun Aug 16, 2015, 12:47 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
273. Here a link to the FBI's website describing their foreign intelligence activities
entitled "Foreign Counterintelligence Stories"
Have fun. Try to read it and assimilate its meaning. ![]() https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/story-index/foreign-counterintelligence |
Response to stevenleser (Reply #268)
Sun Aug 16, 2015, 01:12 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
274. In plain English, in the body of this text, it mentions the FBI's foreign intelligence activities
From the Dept. of Homeland Security entitled "FBI Field Intelligence Groups and Fusion Centers" http://www.dhs.gov/fbi-field-intelligence-groups-and-fusion-centers Field Intelligence Groups If you keep up your studying stevenleser you may be able to get work towards getting a degree based on your knowledge of FBI foreign intelligence activities. Or maybe you can even get a job with the FBI, if you don't already have one! ![]() |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #274)
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 09:23 PM
stevenleser (32,886 posts)
358. That is not what that is saying. It is saying in the pursuit of domestic law enforcement the FBI
liaises with foreign intelligence agencies. Not that the FBI performs foreign intelligence.
The FBI does not do that work. Try talking about stuff you actually know about. Here is another hint in the disparity of knowledge between us. Just yesterday I was sitting next to a former CIA Agent while we were on a radio show discussing Hillary's emails. Afterwards we had a good discussion about intelligence work. I had a senior member of the FBI on my radio show to discuss interrogation. I talk to these folks. When was the last time you talked to CIA or FBI folks? Admit it, you have no idea what you are talking about here. |
Response to stevenleser (Reply #358)
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 09:31 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
359. You are such a vacuous mind. Mincing words is your skill
So everybody else is doing the intelligence work for the FBI in those foreign field offices?
BWAAAHAAAAHHAAAA ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #359)
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 09:33 PM
stevenleser (32,886 posts)
360. Once again, I've talked to CIA Agents and FBI Agents. When have you done so?
More to the point, what things do you actually know about? You should discuss those things.
|
Response to stevenleser (Reply #360)
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 09:41 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
361. I see the CIA's and FBI's own published material. You have to be an idiot not to understand
what it means.
Plus the plethora of information and news internationally. Who made that up? If you're trying to bait me into admitting who I know in the intelligence agencies -- it won't work. |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #361)
Tue Aug 18, 2015, 09:44 PM
stevenleser (32,886 posts)
362. And you are completely misinterpreting what you are reading. I have to ask...
... is English your first language? Because you are not comprehending what you are reading.
Baiting you with trying to know whether you know what you are talking about or not? Either you have spoken to folks in the business of what you are trying to assert knowledge of or you haven't. I've spoken to these folks. I know what the FBI does and what the CIA does by talking to folks who have actually worked in those agencies. You are misinterpreting what you are reading on a website. It's that simple. |
Response to hifiguy (Reply #56)
Thu Aug 20, 2015, 10:56 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
409. Retired US Intelligence Officers See Benefits of WikiLeaks Truth-telling
From the Institute for Public Accuracy - (Reliable, independent sources for breaking news)
http://www.accuracy.org/release/2404-ex-intelligence-officers-others-see-plusses-in-wikileaks-disclosures/
|
Response to randome (Reply #46)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 03:03 PM
reorg (3,317 posts)
59. the former are using the latter n/t
Response to reorg (Reply #59)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 03:07 PM
randome (34,845 posts)
69. You want to believe that, I'm sure, because it elevates The Great Hero in your eyes.
I'm not sure how much longer you can keep juggling concepts to maintain his infallibility. He's already admitted to the acts that Sweden wants to charge him with. He simply thinks he's above that sort of thing because...well, because.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr] |
Response to randome (Reply #69)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 03:19 PM
reorg (3,317 posts)
81. 'infallibility'?
He had been warned, even here on DU we had already discussed and posted the link to the CIA document outlining plans to discredit Wikileaks. No, I think he could have been more careful, but then again he may just be a more trusting person than I am.
|
Response to randome (Reply #69)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 03:28 PM
hifiguy (33,688 posts)
86. Your laugable presumption that Assange is some Great Hero
to his defenders is laughable. I know little about the man but very much admire his bravery and willingness to expose very powerful people as masters of war and torture by using their own words. That much is highly commendable.
|
Response to randome (Reply #46)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 10:11 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
174. So what? He admitted to having consensual sex.
You really are an irritant. You are twisting the facts to make your case but I gotta tell you that you are simply a worm on the fabric of Truth.
To me Assange is a hero. He took a huge risk in releasing information THAT ALL OF US should have been privy to. Next why don't you give us your explanation of why our government should keep the new trade agreement secret, and not let the public or even many of the COTUS members read it!! Assange...... where are you? Release the language of the trade agreement!!! |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #174)
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 05:51 AM
msanthrope (37,549 posts)
185. How does a sleeping woman consent to sex? nt
Response to msanthrope (Reply #185)
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 11:04 AM
stevenleser (32,886 posts)
204. Well, you see, rules are different for the sacred cows like Assange, Sanders and Greenwald.
In fact, there are no rules for them. They can do anything they want and are above criticism and the law.
|
Response to stevenleser (Reply #204)
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 11:07 AM
msanthrope (37,549 posts)
205. the authoritarian mindset that protects the privilege of these white men
Is utterly astounding. That one cannot contemplate that it's entirely possible for a man to both release cables and rate is mystifying.
|
Response to msanthrope (Reply #205)
Sat Aug 15, 2015, 06:54 PM
hifiguy (33,688 posts)
246. Jesus, you are incredibly single-minded and dumber than a box of hair.
There is institutional evil in the world and it always seeks to protect itself.
Who is Assange against the CIA or MI6" I laugh. ![]() |
Response to hifiguy (Reply #246)
Sat Aug 15, 2015, 08:27 PM
msanthrope (37,549 posts)
249. I am "dumber than a box of hair?" What an interesting insult. And yet....you still can't
answer the poster who is dumber than a box of hair when asked for proof of your various wild theories.
I do find the reflexive protection of white men against allegations of sexual misconduct to be the height of authoritarianism..... the ultimate protection of the status quo. all oppressive governments share a common trait in their trivialisation of rape and sexual assault. |
Response to msanthrope (Reply #249)
Sat Aug 15, 2015, 08:59 PM
struggle4progress (114,734 posts)
253. I suspect it just means a box of hair never disagreed with him,
which shows ... um ... y'know ... that a box of hair ... uh ... must be smart
|
Response to struggle4progress (Reply #253)
Sun Aug 16, 2015, 07:14 AM
msanthrope (37,549 posts)
270. I think the incredible responses that protect the privilege of this particular white man to rape
have been stunning.....
Here, a sexual assault survivor gets to be told that she is dumber than a box of hair for pointing out that supposedly liberal men can rape, too. |
Response to msanthrope (Reply #185)
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 05:53 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
218. He was in bed with her. She was there beside him.
Allowing him to stay in her apartment and sleep in her bed speaks volumes. Don'cha think?
![]() Haven't you ever heard of nudging your sleeping partner to get things going? ![]() BOTH of the women he had sex with while in Sweden DENIED that he raped them. And the one he stayed with at her apartment, denied that she slept ![]() Sweden has different laws than here in the US. In Sweden rape is under what is known as PUBLIC PROSECUTION LAW. Officials don't need the "victim's" consent to do an investigation or to prosecute. Assange had no idea he was being accused of rape. He read the allegation in the newspapers. The prosecutor dropped the case but a woman lawyer pressed them to re-open it. Reasons were not published as to her motives or the influence that triggered her actions. On September 27th Assange left Sweden and immdiately afterwards the prosecutor issued a warrant for his arrest. |
Response to randome (Reply #26)
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 11:04 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
236. You are a hopeless case in my opinion
and I suspect that you don't read very much.
I'm not sure you can be educated to understand how widespread attacks are on activists and dissidents. How could you even miss the history of thousands of people who have suffered horrible abuse for exposing the truth and trying to make the world a better place for all of us? Don't you think that the truth is important in a real Democracy.... or anywhere else for that matter? Would you risk everything to expose the truth so others could live a better life? Maybe even your own family? I don't get why you are so stubbornly obtuse... unless it's an unrelenting ego that just can't let go of the narrow picture you have of our polticial situation. It's a shame really. Now DO GO AND GET SOME VERY DEEP AND LONG SLEEP AS YOU SEEM TO THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT ACCORDING TO YOU SIG LINE. Wake up in about ten years when you reach the age of maturity. ![]() |
Response to randome (Reply #26)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 04:10 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
427. WikiLeaks didn't "disown him" -- as usual you are pissing in the thorny wind
And there is no WikiLeaks public statement that makes your case.
Oh dear. Are you getting tired of being beaten down with a truthstick? But here is something interesting for your narrow gullet: http://www.globalpost.com/dispatches/globalpost-blogs/groundtruth/vaughan-smith-julian-assange A bold stand in support: Vaughan Smith on Julian Assange |
Response to hifiguy (Reply #8)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 08:04 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
142. I believe you completely. I saw many activist targeted including myself
Last edited Fri Aug 14, 2015, 10:04 PM - Edit history (1) I've been an activist in different areas for a long time. Bad things have happened to me and to fellow activists.
I have friends who were targeted and one I strongly suspect -- was murdered. That would be Nicolas Regush, former investigative medical/scientific reporter for ABC News with Peter Jennings. Regush left ABC News in disgust after more than ten years because the network refused to report on toxic injury which he knew to be a huge issue. He started his own magazine in Canada called Red Flags Weekly, which then became Red Flags Daily. I was his consultant on toxic injury and we spoke via phone several times a week. He suddenly died of a heart attack just prior to convening an international conference in New York City regarding toxic injury. Scientists and physicians from all over the world planned to attend. His death was never investigated... at least not to my knowledge, but he was young and vigorous. I think he was killed by something that can cause a massive heart attack. Then there was my dear friend James I. Moss who was targeted and his job eliminated. He testified before the Rockefeller (ironic) committee on Gulf War Illness and published his research findings which Johnson and Johnson did not like. They funded the dept. at the Univ. of FL USDA research office where he worked .... and he was bye, bye immediately afterwards. I was targeted and most likely was poisoned over a period of several months when I started the national Ross Perot for President movement in Key West. So many strange things happened during that year and I knew in my heart and soul that there was no way that they could be an accident or coincidence. My friend Omar Shafey, MD, who was the epidemiologist for the State of Florida who was targeted and fired for his report on Malathion poisonings in Florida. The pressure came from the top guy at the FL Dept. of "Health", Secretary Robert Brooks -- appointed by Jeb Bush in early 1999. But the dirty work was done by Rick Hunter who at the time was the Deputy State Health Officer and #2 in charge of daily operations, (very slick political operator behind good ole boy Oklahoma image, protects Brooks from direct liability. Hunter rose up through the Division of Environmental Health). Zane Kime, M.D., of Auburn, CA., was most likely murdered on a mountain climbing trip with someone who disappeared after the death. Kime was doing work that dealt with toxic injury. Marion Moses, MD, of San Francisco, also a toxic injury expert, was repeatedly threatened as was Janette Sherman, MD, who had the same type of expertise. And many, many other activists have suffered terrible things. I believe you because I have direct experiences that have caused suffering and anger. And I have many dear friends who have suffered terribly because like me, and you, they were trying to make the world a better place to live in. |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #142)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 08:30 PM
elias49 (4,259 posts)
152. Thank you for this. It takes courage.
But ignorance is a powerful master, and won't mean a thing to those here who sheepishly sing America the Awesome!
|
Response to hifiguy (Reply #5)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 01:49 PM
Rex (65,616 posts)
7. That one is so amusing, it is like they take it personally or something.
I've LOL'd for months at that particular poster. Backed them into a corner so many times now in a thread, that I've lost count.
It eats some up to no end that the leaks exposed the NSA just as people thought it was - breaking the law and spying domestically on all U.S. taxpayers. The cat is out of the bag and it makes them foaming at the mouth mad that they cannot just pretend it never happened and that everyone else won't go along with it. Which is what makes it so amusing to watch! ![]() ![]() |
Response to Rex (Reply #7)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 01:51 PM
hifiguy (33,688 posts)
9. Trying to educate some of the people around here
is like trying to hammer a strand of cooked spaghetti into a brick of metallized hydrogen.
There are many around here who are as fact-free and blinded by their own narrative as any reichwinger. Sad, actually. |
Response to randome (Reply #3)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 08:20 PM
elias49 (4,259 posts)
147. If no-one gives a shit, why do you always show up
crying "This is bullshit!"
Assange is nothing to you. Let it go. For your health. |
Response to randome (Reply #3)
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 04:29 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
213. You say that Assange "is nothing but another George Zimmerman"?????!!!!!
Good God. You post is filled with absolutist statements. You said several things demonstrating that you would nullify Assange's significance. Absolutist statements are often serious errors in judgment because in reality there is no black and white world that is so simple as the one created by absolutists. Absolutists are often dogmatic people who lack critical thinking skills, and are incapable, or perhaps lacking the energy to look deeply into a complex topic, recognize its complexity, and then describe it using language that is complex. Absolutists also tend to be anti-intellectual. In psychology this type of absolutist "thinking" can lead to depression because absolutist, negative thinking can lead to entrenched distortions in perception and information processing. People diagnosed with this problem are seen as having distinct cognitive biases. This problem greatly limits insight. ![]() I don't know how old you are, but am hoping you are maybe fourteen? That would give us some hope that change can happen! |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #213)
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 08:43 PM
randome (34,845 posts)
225. And you reflexively nullify the women who want him tested.
Because he's your hero. A hero who runs and hides, betrays the friends who put up his bail. Who tried to foist an edited video on the public. Who said informants deserve whatever happens to them. Who let Chelsea Manning twist in the wind.
This is your hero? He's a narcissistic coward, IMO. No one should be above the law. Even The Cowardly Assange. [hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesn’t always set you free. Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in.[/center][/font][hr] |
Response to randome (Reply #225)
Sun Aug 16, 2015, 02:24 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
279. You are misrepresenting Assange. Thank heavens you're not his attorney
Your sig line is so perfect:
"The truth doesn’t always set you free. Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in."
BWAAAHAAAA! That is just perfect -- I couldn't have done a better job of describing your situation... ![]() You can't be so out of touch with international accounts on Assange to ignore the many reports that the United States wants to extradite him to the US so they can "handle him." ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Assange has repeatedly said that he doesn't want to go back to Sweden for that reason. ![]() ![]() I already posted the fact (cited in the Swedish legal documents) that the Swedish prosecutor refused to interview him while he was in Sweden right after the accusations were made against him....which when documented on paper, the two women refused to sign. The women only want him tested. for VD... and even an idiot knows that can be done in any decent medical facility anywhere in the world. In that same Swedish legal document there legal minds who are adamant that the prosceutor was unfair to Assange, not only for not interviewing him while he was in Sweden, but for refusing to have him interviewed in England, which is where he landed after leaving Sweden. An excerpt from the British Guardian Newspaper: Assange has always claimed he is innocent and that he would be prepared to face a Swedish court were it not for a threat that he would be extradited to the US for political crimes. Neither the US nor Swedish governments have responded to his requests for guarantees. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/nov/20/julian-assange-appeal-arrest-warrant-swedish-court Some think you continue to act dense and write bogus things about Assange just to poison this thread. I have the stamina to debate you on the facts, but realize that it's not something that you want. But, I'm hopeful that if you have a few neurons that still can communicate with other neurons, along with even a tiny hint of an honest bone in your body, that it will grow bigger.... and stronger! But oh hell, if you don't change I hope the damned bone explodes and fries your computer! ![]() |
Response to randome (Reply #3)
Mon Aug 17, 2015, 03:18 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
310. But, but...but... Carl Rove cares very much what happens to Julian Assange!!!!
For those of you who continue to have your doubts about ASSANGE being targeted for ruin by powerful politicians dedicated to serve the interests the 1/10%
![]() ![]() http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andrew-kreig/rove-suspected-in-swedish_b_798737.html Rove Suspected In Swedish-U.S. Political Prosecution of WikiLeaks SNIP And here's an excerpt of a story by Naomi Wolf which gets into the blood and guts of the story and shows you how dirty the players can be.... this is about rendition and torture arranged by Thomas Bodstrom, the lawyer against Assage, and former Swedish "Minister of Justice" who helped approve a CIA rendition to enable the CIA to fly two asylum seekers into Egypt where they were tortured: Dr. Brian Palmer, a social anthropologist at Uppsala University, explained on Kreig’s radio show last month that Karl Rove has been working directly as an advisor to the governing Moderate Party. Kreig also reported, in Connecticut Watchdog, that the Assange accusers’ lawyer is a partner in the law firm Borgström and Bodström, whose other name partner, Thomas Bodström, is a former Swedish Minister of Justice. In that office, Bodström helped approve a 2001 CIA rendition request to Sweden, to allow the CIA to fly two asylum-seekers from Sweden to Egypt, where they were tortured. This background compels us to review the case against Assange with extreme care. SNIP SEE LINK FOR MORE BELOW http://markcrispinmiller.com/2011/02/eight-big-problems-with-the-case-against-assange-must-read-by-naomi-wolf/ ![]() ![]() |
Response to hifiguy (Original post)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 01:56 PM
muriel_volestrangler (99,044 posts)
10. Nonsense, twaddle and utter foolishness.
You claim the rape accusation is 'completely phony'. You base that on your admiration for Assange's political work, rather than any thought about rape.
|
Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #10)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 02:04 PM
hifiguy (33,688 posts)
17. I base it on a knowledge of how intelligence agencies
have an immeasurably long history of targeting persons who dissent and expose things governments want known and how they work. Denial of that fact is not possible.
Please don't presume anything outside of the very clear words I wrote in the OP. That is disingenuous and beneath you. |
Response to hifiguy (Reply #17)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 02:06 PM
muriel_volestrangler (99,044 posts)
19. Your words were indeed clear; they are an awful example of misogyny
that I'm ashamed to see on DU. You dismiss what the woman says, because of your admiration of Assange.
|
Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #19)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 02:09 PM
hifiguy (33,688 posts)
20. BS. Women couldn't be blackmailed or bribed by a spy agency?
Most human beings can be bribed, pressured, or blackmailed into doing something if enough force is brought to bear, and bringing force to bear is what spooks do. Tokyo Rose was one such example ofsomeone pressured to engage in propaganda. It's the reason they exist.
Women have even been known to cooperate with spy agencies willingly throughout history. Facts are what they are. |
Response to hifiguy (Reply #20)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 02:13 PM
msanthrope (37,549 posts)
22. but of course you've offered no evidence of these women were. In T
Response to msanthrope (Reply #22)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 02:19 PM
hifiguy (33,688 posts)
24. This really isn't about them as people.
My view is that they were most likely used as pawns by some nation's intelligence agency - Sweden's probably. You are aware of the things intelligence agencies have been doing to persons who are a perceived threat for the last couple of hundred years, aren't you? It has been in the papers.
Similar tactics were used against Martin Luther King. Not comparing the two men, but both were perceived as serious threats by TPTB, and the methods deployed against both are as old as the world. Why is what I am arguing for so difficult to consider? Intelligence agencies engage in dirty and morally reprehensible activities all the time. Is that surprising to you? |
Response to hifiguy (Reply #24)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 02:25 PM
msanthrope (37,549 posts)
27. that's how you view victims of sexual assault? Pawns?
Assange has already admitted to doing the acts described in the warrant. his defense was that those axe were not crimes in great britain. , he was wrong.
|
Response to msanthrope (Reply #27)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 02:51 PM
reorg (3,317 posts)
41. You are lying again
Assange has never 'admitted' the slanderous allegations in the warrant.
|
Response to reorg (Reply #41)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 03:00 PM
msanthrope (37,549 posts)
55. I can't make you read the trial court documents.....
Response to msanthrope (Reply #55)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 03:05 PM
reorg (3,317 posts)
63. I read them before you and that's how I know you are lying n/t
Response to reorg (Reply #63)
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 10:00 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
230. reorg.... here is an excerpt from the Assange legal case that proves Misanthrope is lying again.
This excerpt comes directly from the pdf legal file provided regarding the Assange legal case in Sweden. PLEASE NOTE: THIS IS A LEGAL CASE WITH INTERNATIONAL RAMIFICATIONS. THE LANGUAGE OF THIS VERY SHORT EXCERPT SHOULD PROVE EXACTLY HOW UNFAIR AND CONTROVERSIAL THIS CASE IS, EVEN AS DESCRIBED BY SWEDISH LEGAL MINDS. YOU ARE ENCOURAGED TO GO TO THE ENTIRE STORY AT THIS URL FOR THE MORE COMPLETE LEGAL OPINION -- LINK:
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/world/20110224-Britain-Ruling-Assange-Extradition-to-Sweden.pdf "The police interviews with the complainants do not follow good practice. The complainants and the interviewing officer are all active members of the Social Democrat Party. He also explained the difficulty in Sweden demonstrating the difference between consenting to something and wanting something. He told me that the police file in this case had been publicly available on the Internet. It was suggested to him that the material he saw on 31st January was a copy of the material sent to Mr Assange, but leaked after it reached the office of his London lawyer, and he appeared to agree. |
Response to reorg (Reply #63)
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 10:05 PM
stevenleser (32,886 posts)
231. So provide your interpretation of what Assange said. Simple. But you refuse to do so
And I can understand why. Assange essentially admits to everything of which he is being accused.
|
Response to stevenleser (Reply #231)
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 10:53 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
235. And I say bullshit to you. My answer to your "request" is contained in post 230
Did you (facetiously?) ask me to "provide" my interpretation of what Assange said.... about the accusations or rape that were made?
![]() If you read the legal documents yourself then you have to know that even you can't fulfill your own request, because the Swedish legal documents about what Assange said about his legal predicament DO NOT EXIST!! In fact, that is the MAIN COMPLAINT OF SWEDISH LEGAL OFFICIALS that NO SWEDISH PROSECUTORS arranged for an interview with Assange to get his side of the story while he was in Sweden, and neither did they arrange an interview when he was in England. They said in the documentation that they thought that this was UNFAIR! Eat it lessersteven. So just read the damned transcript and the real facts and the written complaint. Stop being so damned obtuse. Actually and honestly.... I don't expect you to read the truth and absorb it. So ask yourself, do you wish to continue to be a person with a reputation of being untrustworthy to investigate and report the honest facts here on DU? One thing for sure. Whenever I see your name I will know who you are. |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #235)
Sat Aug 15, 2015, 11:17 AM
stevenleser (32,886 posts)
238. There are a myriad of links on the web that dispute you
First, my request was aimed at the other person since they are the ones who claimed that Assange did not materially admit to everything. In fact, he did.
As this link and hundreds more like it show, http://studentactivism.net/2011/07/12/assange-lawyer-concedes/ , what Assanges defense rests in is the contention that yes, he did those things, but statements or actions made by the woman he raped after the fact essentially amounts to consent after the fact. Assanges attorney goes as far to say that he does not say anything negative about the women and he says that Assange did "disturbing and disrespectful" sexual things to the women. Assange and his attorney have essentially admitted to everything and the idea of consent after the fact is laughable. |
Response to stevenleser (Reply #238)
Sat Aug 15, 2015, 02:29 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
239. You are still using information from opinion sites who agree with you about your Assange claims.
You said: "As this link and hundreds more like it show...." and then coninue in your effort to convince me of your position. I went to the ONE site you provided but found only undocumented negative opinions about Assange so very similar to your own.
http://studentactivism.net/2011/07/12/assange-lawyer-concedes/ --- which is the work of Angus Johnston, whose biased and undocumented statements are very similar to yours. Maybe you are him! Notice your claim that "....this link and hundreds more like it show...." which suggests that they all are saying what you are saying about Assange. So stevenleser where are these ".... hundreds more like it..." that you refer to? Are they from Faux Noise and their sychophants? ![]() Please, please, please ---stick with documented facts. Go to the Swedish legal documents inadvertently posted by msanthrope, one of the few who are in your camp. She probably didn't read it because the document totally blows away both of your cases against Assange! But here it is again kiddo, you have one more chance to get it right! http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/world/20110224-Britain-Ruling-Assange-Extradition-to-Sweden.pdf Read it. Then ask youself the same question asked by the Swedish legal opionions about this case: Why did the female Swedish prosecutor REFUSE to interview Assange while he was in Sweden? She didn't even try! In that document objective analyses by Swedish legal minds state that the prosecutor's lack of action was unfair to the defendant. She also refused to have him interviewed in England. The document stated that this is unusual and unfair. The document also stated that it was wrong and even illegal to publish anything about an alleged sex crime prior to trial. Get it that the most telling part of this mess is that the prosecutor did not want closure on the Assange case and that's why she refused to interview him. And it went into the newspapers which made worldwide headlines. This is not the way investigations are conducted normally in Sweden. Instead, she let Assange twist in the wind of uncertainty which creates an environment for anyone to project whatever garbage they want to onto Assage. The prosecutor did this on purpose by creating that environment of uncertainty, along with the usually forbidden publicity. And you don't think she was influenced from some higher ups with connections to Big Money and Big Power? ![]() This kind of purposful negligence is very unfair to ANY person being accused of a crime. And that is said clearly in the legal documents by Swedish legal experts who seem appalled at the way this case has been "mishandled", and I agree with hifiguy that this was done ON PURPOSE. The points that hifiguy was making about activists routinely being targeted and hurt in some way in order to deactivate them is TRUE. It has happend thousands of times throughout history and now is an epidemic in many countries including our own. This is just one case and it should be completely obvious to any educated person who has read a lot about political topics, who also happens to have critical thinking skills. If you read a few dozen pages of WikiLeaks you might be able to understand how angry and embarrassed the 1/10 percenters would become at the worldwide exposure ratting them out about the tricks they played (and continue to play) and how they rig the games in economic and political systems. If you are unable to detach yourself from preconceived ideas that were fed to you by your associations with authority figures in the past.... then you need to give up trying to debate these issues. The lens of your brain may have hardened into a very narrow focus. It is obvious to me and to others that your "documentation" is not a genuine attempt to get to the truth, it is just another opinion that matches your own, while the actual legal documents have facts that are facts. Please open up the lens of your mind and stop this shit. It really is irritating me and I have better things to do that talk to a brick wall. ![]() ![]() |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #239)
Sat Aug 15, 2015, 11:30 PM
stevenleser (32,886 posts)
260. The problem you have is, Assange's attorney said these things. You can't explain that away. nt
Response to msanthrope (Reply #27)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 03:04 PM
hifiguy (33,688 posts)
61. Jesus.
These women could have been told their mission was to have sex with Assange for the purporse of blackmail or just have sex with him and then fabrcate rape allegations or more likely, repeat a rape story the spooks gave them. They may well have been victims, but if so, they were victims of the spooks, not Assange.
|
Response to hifiguy (Reply #61)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 03:08 PM
msanthrope (37,549 posts)
71. do you have any evidence to support this theory you have about these these women? nt
Response to msanthrope (Reply #71)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 03:15 PM
hifiguy (33,688 posts)
77. My "theory" which is actually a hypothesis,
is that they may well have been bribed or pressured by authorities to cooperate in framing Assange. People can be coerced into doing exceedingly nasty things if the pressure and/or threats are well-designed and skillfully applied, particularly when those doing the threatening are in positions of legal and institutional power. Who knows, they may even have been blackmailed or threatened with retaliation if they did not cooperate. It's certainly not beyond the realm of possibility. Spy agencies are not known for their tender mercies when they want to get something.
Which would make them victims as well. Of the spies. Beyond that I do not care to venture. |
Response to hifiguy (Reply #77)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 03:17 PM
msanthrope (37,549 posts)
79. do you have any evidence for this hypothesis? nt
Response to msanthrope (Reply #79)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 03:32 PM
hifiguy (33,688 posts)
87. You clearly don't understand what a hypothesis is
A scientific hypothesis is the initial building block in the scientific method. Many describe it as an “educated guess,” based on prior knowledge and observation. While this is true, the definition can be expanded. A hypothesis also includes an explanation of why the guess may be correct, according to National Science Teachers Association.
Source: http://www.livescience.com/21490-what-is-a-scientific-hypothesis-definition-of-hypothesis.html |
Response to hifiguy (Reply #87)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 03:37 PM
msanthrope (37,549 posts)
91. Okay...give us an "explanation why the guess may be correct." Or, evidence, proof, facts
in support...... take your pick.
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Response to msanthrope (Reply #91)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 03:59 PM
hifiguy (33,688 posts)
95. It's all in the OP but here's the bullet point summary
Wikileaks, then headed by Assange, released documents verifying the bogus bases for the Iraq war and tht torture was approved at the highest levels of the American government and that the Brits cooperated.
This infuriated people in the US and British governments. They don't like the truth about things like this coming out about such things and that applies to ANY administration. Witness Obama's war on whistleblowers in general and Chelsea Manning in particular. English and American spy agencies were sicced on Assange and enlisted the agencies of other allied/NATO countries to assist them. Someone, presumably Swedish intelligence, recruited, bribed, blackmailed, or otherwise coerced women to have sex with Assange. Post 104 in this thread http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027071323 supports this notion. Following these sexual encounters with Assange, they filed sexual assault charges, presumably on the instructions of and inconformance with the orders given by the organization that recruited/coerced them. The plan was to arrest Assange, hold a show trial, and then turn him over to MI6, or most likely the CIA, where he would be tortured and then disappeared to some black site. The cover explanation would be that he died from (make up the reason here) in prison. This is incredibly simple. It was done to many prisoners seized in Cheney's War. This is what spy agencies do, the reason they exist. The spy agencies and those who direct them are the only villains here and I do not understand how people can fail to see that. It's an educated guess that fits with similar actioins that have already been observed and exhaustively documented. |
Response to hifiguy (Reply #95)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 04:52 PM
msanthrope (37,549 posts)
119. Again...do you have any evidence to support any of your claims?
start with your first sentence. By the time Assange got around to the Iraq war was there anyone with reason still on the planet who did not know that the basis of the Iraq war was bogus?
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Response to msanthrope (Reply #119)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 05:19 PM
hifiguy (33,688 posts)
121. It is an educated guess, like all hypotheses.
It fits comfortably with facts observed in other contexts - i.e., the known methods of intelligence agencies and the ongoing war on whistleblowers. Assange/Wikileaks were the biggest, most famous whistleblowers who revealed the most secrets.
And putting the actual government docs out there where they can no longer be denied or explained away is a cardinal sin. He produced the smoking gun both for anyone who cares now and any historian in the future who cares about the bogus war and the very real torture. I don't know how to test this hypothesis unless some spy comes in from the cold, as it were, and confirms it. But I believe it to be highly plausible and to possess explanatory power. |
Response to msanthrope (Reply #119)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 06:29 PM
stevenleser (32,886 posts)
130. It's all based on a cartoonish version of the CIA where Assange is their biggest national security
priority, they have unlimited resources to engage in a boneheaded conspiracy against him and they have rejected the most simple and low cost solution available if they want someone to stop being a problem.
Other than that it is completely plausible. ![]() |
Response to msanthrope (Reply #119)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 10:23 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
175. HiFiGuy is much closer to truth than you because you refuse to recognize historical patterns
of our NSA, CIA and rogue members of both organizations, plus private covert operatives.
You are like a broken record except that you randomly throw tiny darts at the OP to divert us from really dealing with the possibility that Assange is a REAL HERO! ![]() |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #175)
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 05:49 AM
msanthrope (37,549 posts)
184. What historical pattern? Provide examples of other persons. nt
Response to msanthrope (Reply #184)
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 06:16 PM
AikidoSoul (2,150 posts)
384. Your name is so perfect for you, a slight variation of the word "misanthrope" which means
a person who hates or distrusts humankind.
So very perfect. You must hate us so much that you just want to drive us ![]() Wish you wouldn't clutter up this place. Can't you go hate humankind someplace else? ![]() Please? |
Response to AikidoSoul (Reply #384)
Wed Aug 19, 2015, 06:29 PM
msanthrope (37,549 posts)
387. A little feisty this evening, aren't we? nt
Response to hifiguy (Reply #95)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 05:00 PM
CanSocDem (3,286 posts)
120. Ka-boom!
This and the OP. Always necessary to check for democratic principles around here with our growing reputation for letting people sneak in.... ![]() . |
Response to CanSocDem (Reply #120)
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 05:23 PM
hifiguy (33,688 posts)
123. Why thank you!
Response to hifiguy (Reply #123)
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 09:44 AM
leveymg (36,418 posts)
202. I agree with you this far HFG: this case should not be assumed to be primarily about rape charges.
Without coming down one way or the other on Assange's guilt or innocence under Swedish Law, this fits a classic "honey trap" set up by intelligence agencies. Oldest trick in The Big Book of Dirty Tricks.
Context is all-important. |
Response to leveymg (Reply #202)
Fri Aug 14, 2015, 10:50 AM
hifiguy (33,688 posts)
203. That is the central point at which I was driving.
Things are not what they may seem to be unless one does some critical and skeptical thinking. Especially when so many powerful people have so much to gain.
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