What I've learned from the Zimmerman/Martin incident

[Nine]

“Reefer madness” is not just some hilarious notion from the 1930s but an actual scientific fact that has only recently been discovered. Reefer madness can last up to 30 days and is a cause for justifiable homicide.

If your daddy claims that you have a great-grandfather of Afro-Peruvian descent, that totally proves that you cannot possibly have any racist attitudes about African Americans, despite much evidence to the contrary.

Presumption of innocence is exactly the same thing as presumption of truthfulness. Whatever an accused person says must be believed, no matter how implausible it is or how disconnected it is from known facts.

A teenager wearing a hooded sweatshirt in the rain is a cause for suspicion, but a strange man following you in his car, then on foot, then chasing after you is wholly unremarkable and not at all a justification for self defense.

A high school kid who has drawn graffiti, skipped school, and smoked a joint but has no criminal record is a thug, but a grown man with a history of violent assault against women and police officers is “squeaky clean.”


Feel free to add your own.

[geckosfeet]

1. Chasing and picking an altercation with a complete stranger on the street

is now known as "stand your ground".

[Jaimeb]

25. Stand your ground

The one person who had the stand your ground right - Martin - didn't have a gun to protect himself. Z-man caused this whole unjustified criminal incident.

[vetforobama]

28. I stand in agreement with you

It is funny how the attention has gone to the trace amounts of marijuana found in Martin's blood, however, Zimmerman's history suggests that he, too, may have had illegal substances in his blood as well. But he was never tested. You are so right the "Stand Your Ground" law should have applied to Martin if the circumstances had been different. I doubt if it would have.

[geckosfeet]

29. Agreed. But I fear that had Martin been armed and defended himself

he would still be in jail.

Better than being dead I suppose.

[eridani]

44. At least one person in that situation has said something to the effect of

"I'd rather have 12 men put me in jail than 6 men put me in the ground permanently."

[bupkus]

2. A police department's first priority

Isn't gathering evidence at a homicide scene but making a judgment call based on who the person who just committed the homicide is related to and how much evidence can be lost to support the perpetrator's "innocence".

[Quixote1818]

3. K and R!!! The accused also did everything wrong and broke all kinds of rules in the process

leading to a young boys DEATH. Yes a child is fucking DEAD now get it? Yet people just seem like "Oh, well, it was just a bad situation. What can you do?"

Un fucking believable! Pisses me off to no end. If it was their kid they would most certainly see things a different way.

[H2O Man]

4. "We need to wait

for the legal system to render a verdict before we have an opinion."

[grok]

15. we can all have opinions

And frankly we are all going to still stick to them long after the verdict assuming the level of evidence stays about the same. Don't think many minds will be changed from now on.




One thing I have learned. If one takes a side, Any particular data that coming to light that contradicts one's theory WILL be rationalized to irrelevance and a higher theory(which will have the good fortune of not being contradicted totally YET) will take it's place. THe level of actual proof doesn't have to be high. To support the original opinion anyway.

Might not be good science or legal justice, but it is human nature.

[grasswire]

5. medicine has had it all wrong, we now know

Superficial injuries to the skin may not reveal themselves until 24-36 hours after an event.

[grasswire]

7. I think this is called the "zimmerman effect"

I'm sure the medical journals will print the news.

[Cave_Johnson]

17. Those wackadoodles at the Mayo Clinic...

... what will they think up next?

[Jaimeb]

26. Injuries

A shot to the heart reveals itself instantly...

[notadmblnd]

6. Instructions from a police officer is really just advice

and that one can choose to take it or leave it

[lunatica]

8. It's OK to shoot someone in self defense but not OK to hit them in self defense.

And that he who has the gun is right.

[Cosmocat]

31. BOTTOM LINE

I know this is something that some don't want to hear, but this comes down to a mentality that gun owners have more rights than non-gun owners.

[tblue]

9. It is illegal to "Stand Your Ground" if you are black.

The SYG law is prohibited as a legal defense for persons of African descent. Any act of self-defense by such individual is a crime for which summary execution by a caucasian self-appointed stand-in for The Law is justifiable and legally sanctioned.

[Skidmore]

12. Also, you can "stand your ground" only if you have a gun and no other

means of defending yourself.

[barbtries]

10. i'd like to paste this on my facebook profile

it's a great dispatch of so much of the arguments people are making when they really mean that young black men don't deserve to live.

may i? i will attribute, thank you!

[Voice for Peace]

19. you can just click the facebook like button at the end of the OP and I think it posts to FB

the link to the OP here on DU

[barbtries]

22. yeah i did that

but it's just the link. i'd rather get the words out there.

[Nine]

27. Be my guest! (nt)

[barbtries]

30. excellent!

i shall.

[tblue]

11. America is now 100% color-blind.

If you are a person of color, approximately 1/4 of this country does not see you--except as a scapegoat for all of its woes, refuses to accept you as rightfully American, and wants you either dead or off of the nation's shores.

[DonCoquixote]

13. That even people who are "liberals"

Will either consciously or unconsciously bend over backward to see the White guy's point of view; though none of them will admit why; they are as scared of Black males as the people on the right they claim to be superior to.

[Quixote1818]

14. This is so well done I am going to kick again. Wish I could R again. nt

[bottomofthehill]

16. Make sure you shoot to kill when you confront a Skittels and tea bearing teen

Dead men tell no tales. As long as your victim is dead, he can not help so set the record strait. History is written by the living

[joe1991]

18. if your daddy is a local judge

he can get you out of just about anything.

[grok]

24. just about everybody on DU is qualified

to act as a magistrate in Virginia, hundreds of miles away from Sanford,FL. Didn't even need to be a college graduate till 2008. Not even high school in Z Sr's time. In VA the qualifications to be a dog catcher are even higher!(wikipedia)

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+19.2-37


“Robert J. Zimmerman served as a full-time magistrate from 2000-2006. Please be advised that in Virginia magistrates are judicial officers, but they are not considered "judges" and do not possess trial jurisdiction. More detailed information on the role of the magistrate in Virginia is available on Virginia's Judicial System Website .”

http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/crime/zimmerman-dad-worked-as-magistrate

[NYC_SKP]

20. If you have posted a "provocative" image of self on Facebook, then you "had it coming".

forgive me if someone else wrote that earlier.

[quinnox]

21. lol, this one in particular really struck me

"A teenager wearing a hooded sweatshirt in the rain is a cause for suspicion, but a strange man following you in his car, then on foot, then chasing after you is wholly unremarkable and not at all a justification for self defense."

[Iliyah]

23. A young black male minding his own

business and talking with his girlfriend on the cell phone walking home. His crime, he "looked" suspicious. He's black and wearing a hoodie. Simple fact, not going around it. Zimmerman wanted to play hero, simple fact, not going around it.

Trayvon "stood his ground", no gun. Zimmerman feared for his life after Trayvon stood his ground, cause you know what, Trayvon also feared for his life.

Trayvon is six feet under, and Zimmerman is collecting thousands maybe millions of dollars for his defense. Does Zimmerman have a conscious I don't know but looking from the outside I wonder.

[freshwest]

36. Beauty like suspicion is in the eye of the beholder. Z's record shows him to have a bad eye.

[A Simple Game]

32. I have learned that people on DU that are defending Zimmerman

are not really defending Zimmerman. They couldn't care less about him, they are defending the use of gun to kill a person that you hunted down.

This is all about the gun, and the law that allows you to use it almost as a whim. It is about a free get out of jail card. Even in the old wild west you couldn't shoot an unarmed man and not be charged with murder.

[zeemike]

33. I learned that justice is indeed blind

But not to worry...it has a seeing eye dog called the Media to lead it around.
And I learned that you can raise a lot of money if you kill a black male when standing your ground...and all right wingers will flock to your web site to donate...but that is no reason to think that they are racist...did they use the N word?...no... so STFU about racism.

[hfojvt]

34. I could say

that I have learned that people will make up all kinds of ridiculous straw man arguments and hurl vitriol instead of listening and discussing with those who disagree with them

but really I already knew that.

Perhaps Pascal made that point very well in his Pensees.

Q: Why are you hitting me?

A: Aren't you from the other side of the lake? (i.e. the other tribe)

"Ideas on earth are badges of friendship. Friends agree with friends in order to express friendliness. Enemies disagree with enemies in order to express enmity." Vonnegut

1
1*2*1
1*3*3*1
1*4*6*4*1
1*5*10*5*1

What's my next line?

I think it may be this

"I'm telling you. People come and go in this forest, and they say 'it's only Eeyore, so it doesn't count.' They walk to and fro saying 'Ha ha!' But do they know anything about A? They don't. It's just three sticks to them. But to the Educated - mark this, little Piglest - to the Educated, not meaning Poohs and Piglets, it's a great and glorious A. Not," he added, "just something that anybody can come and breathe on." House at Pooh Corner p. 88


But I cannot help noticing the response Eeyore got to his little rant.

"Piglet stepped back nervously and looked around for help."


Well that's what WOULD happen.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

35. I have learned a lot from this thread

And have re-learned that police corruption is (still) very rampant in our country.

[cr8tvlde]

37. and far from color blind n/t

[JI7]

38. you left out the most important thing of all

Trayvon is Black .

the true reason people are defending Zimmerman.

[just1voice]

39. I learned stupid citizens+stupid laws=stupid sht happens

I haven't learned anything about the actual "Zimmerman case", all I've heard is MSMedia bs and hype combined with gossip and racism.

[patrice]

40. Anyone is capable of beating anyone else to death with even just a single blow.

[JI7]

41. who was beat to death in this case ? one person was shot to death

that person is seen just minutes after walking in to the police station walking easily even with handcuffs on.

[patrice]

42. That's my point in bringing it up. We are supposed to believe that Z was in fear of

being beaten to death, by a kid half his age and, what, almost 100 pds lighter, in something like 45 seconds?

[JI7]

43. oh, sorry

i should have remembered the thread OP .

[uponit7771]

50. Good point!!

[shimonitanegi]

45. I've learned that

it's OK for lone paranoid vigilante with a violent history and a loaded gun to follow a minor at night and to kill a completely innocent and unarmed kid. It's no problem since the killer is a victim.

[uponit7771]

51. +1, the killer got scared after chasing someone with a loaded gun so....you know /saracasm

[Shadowflash]

55. Yup

The reality, now, it that if you pick a fight with someone and it turns out that the person YOU picked a fight with can beat the crap out of you, then you have the right to kill them.

If your mouth writes checks that you cannot cash, it used to be you learned your lesson for being a moron. now you can just kill them and claim I stood my ground.

[ScottLand]

46. Here's one for all the Faux News lovers - if the left says guilty, the right MUST say innocent

regardless of completely overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Zimmerman is on a path to be the new Reagan.

[nxylas]

47. Any time a white man shoots a black teenager, it qualifies as self-defense

If a black man hits a white man who is pointing a gun at him, it is called unprovoked assault.

[Cave_Johnson]

48. Are you referring to the Zimmerman/Martin incident?

Is there any proof that Martin struck Zimmerman as a result of having a gun pointed at him?

[nxylas]

49. No, but if he did, it would have been justified

The Zimmerman defenders talk endlessly about Zimmerman's right to self-defense. My point is that even if everything they say about Zimmerman's injuries is true (and I don't believe it myself), Zimmerman would still be the aggressor and Martin the one defending himself.

[uponit7771]

52. Its OK for a man to chase a black male but if the person was female the chase itself is an assualt

[Kingofalldems]

53. I've learned that people from conservative websites

come here to defend their boy Zimmerman.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

54. People who have been chased by strange men decide to go back and ambush their pursuer....

....instead of continuing another 200 feet to safety.