So what's going to happen if next year's election turns out to be between Bernie and Trump?

[Kablooie]

Which way America would go?
Of course on this site everyone assumes Sanders by a landslide but you can never underestimate the gullibility and stupidity of the American public.
It would be epic, you could be sure of that.

[merrily]

1. I understand your concern. Bernie would a much better shot against Trump than would Hillary.

Supposedly, both Trump and Bernie are doing well because (1) neither can be bought by big business, Trump because he is rich enough to finance his own campaign, even if costs run to billions; and Bernie because only Big Voter is financing his campaign; (2) both say what is on their respective minds; and (3) neither is establishment. In my view, Hillary does win on any of those three issues.

Where Bernie handily trumps Trump is Bernie was not born on third bases. Hell, he was barely born in the ballpark; Bernie is not a beginner when it comes to public office; Bernie doesn't mouth off like an asshat and so on.

[Kennah]

2. Trump is riding high in a field of 79 candidates

As the field narrows, I suspect most Republicans will shy away from the northeastern Douchepotamus. There are plenty of GOOPers who scare me--that they could win and inflict all manner of damage on this nation--but The Donald ain't one of them.

[murielm99]

3. Those who do not remember the past

are condemned to repeat it.

We laughed at Reagan. We are laughing at Trump now.

That is why we need a better nominee than Bernie. We need strong candidates at all levels, candidates who can win.

[cascadiance]

6. Bernie wouldn't lose like Hillary would to Trump on issues like TPP and H-1B outsourcing

and would get a lot more of the sane people voting for him than Trump would.

In my book, if Trump were to win the GOP nomination, Bernie would be THE candidate that could beat him.

[stevenleser]

26. 99% of the country are not engaged on either of those issues. The election will not turn on those

issues.

[cascadiance]

28. 20 percent WERE turned to Ross Perot on those issues in 1992!

And if you believe that people were attracted to Perot more for issues other than NAFTA, I got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell ya!

[stevenleser]

29. 23 years ago. Congrats. Not today. nt

[cascadiance]

31. Why? You think people care less about their jobs being outsourced today than then?

After the economic meltdown we went through in recent years? HUH? After a long history of seeing the destruction that NAFTA has wreaked on jobs, domestic factories, our trade deficit, etc. since it was passed, that people then didn't have the benefit of reading about?

Keep swallowing what the corporate media spoonfeeds you to keep pushing us towards fascism where corporations can override our laws everywhere as the evolution of WTO to ISDS courts proceeds down that path!

[stevenleser]

33. NAFTA was a much more talked about issue then than TPP is today. There is close to zero buzz or

discussion about TPP out there right now.

[demwing]

7. "We laughed at Reagan-therefore Bernie can't win" just doesn't make any sense

Your conclusion doesn't follow from your premise. It's a non sequitur.

[murielm99]

20. That is not what said and you know it.

Bernie can't win a general.

Reagan was the butt of humor. So is Trump. We need to take Trump seriously. And running a weak candidate against him is not taking him seriously. A Trump Presidency will be a disaster, and even worse disaster than the Reagan Presidency.

You know perfectly well what I was talking about.

[demwing]

22. You haven't established that Sanders is a weak candidate

just because you believe it, doesn't make it so, and explains much about your leap of "logic"

[Picking Dem]

52. They'll attack Sanders all day, but won't explain why.

[LanternWaste]

24. No more and no less than can Trump. All else is prophecy.

"Bernie can't win a general..."

No more and no less than can Trump.
All else is simple prophecy and editorial pretending to be analysis.

[CTyankee]

38. well, Reagan had been governor of CA. Trump has no experience at all governing.

My gut tells me that the Donald is going to "get over" this whole idea once the novelty of it wears off and he is faced with a day to day slog of campaigning and is completely out of his comfort zone. He will take his marbles and go home...

[Zen Democrat]

58. His comfort zone is in the spotlight. He's an attention whore and where he goes, nobody knows.

[CTyankee]

66. Sure, but he goes on to the next attention getting adventure...

if that's all you want once the dreariness of campaigning sets in and it gets in the way of other more charming ways to get attention, he'll go there. He has options with all his wealth that most politicians don't have.

[Electric Monk]

4. Nobody could trot out that old Naderism about "Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum" parties

That's for sure

[trusty elf]

9. .........

[img][/img]

[CTyankee]

39. OY! Please, mercy, no more pic of Christie in his tightie whities...

[Zen Democrat]

59. Nader stole that one from the George Corley Wallace/Curtis LeMay 1968 campaign.

Old Wallace was also known for: No more "pussyfootin" in the war in Vietnam.
There's not a dime's worth of difference in the parties.
Pointy-headed liberals (meaning "educated&quot

[Live and Learn]

5. Very interesting debates and a Bernie landslide!

The American public is not that stupid. I gotta believe that.

[ericson00]

8. Trump in a landslide vs Bernie

Trump is much more media savvy than Bernie, he will use his money for something, which Bernie doesn't have much of, Trump can also move to the center on some things and then both look reasonable and show Bernie as extreme and socialist, and Bernie would do wayyyy worse with working class whites than Hillary will do against Trump, not to mention minorities ain't exactly gonna come out for an aloof guy like Bernie.

[stevenleser]

27. I'm becoming more and more concerned about Trump every day. I agree with your analysis.

I am very concerned about Trump vs anyone right now. I'll say more later tonight.

[Person 2713]

46. And I agree with you

[cascadiance]

32. Let me know when Trump gets CLOSE to 28k coming to see him at a local venue someplace...

... and maybe then I'll get more concerned!

Yes, people are right to be concerned about Trump, because like Bernie, he's reflecting the nation's non-partisan HATE for corporate money bought politicians that are in office now. Both Bernie and Trump are benefitting from that now!

[stevenleser]

47. Let me know when Bernie is leading the race for the nomination nationally. Because Trump is.

[cascadiance]

53. Or so corporate america and their monopoly in media has a vested interest in us believing!

[stevenleser]

56. No, that doesn't work. Unless you are also discounting Bernie's rise in polls in NH and Iowa.

You can't have it both ways.

[cascadiance]

62. Oh yes, you're noting that he'd beat the rest of the Republicans for the nomination...

I guess I thought you were echoing the other post here that was saying Trump would have a landslide win over Bernie, when even CNN notes that Bernie would beat Trump in their polling.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/30/politics/bernie-sanders-donald-trump-poll/

A lot of what has some people saying they'll support Hillary is that they don't necessarily support her over Bernie, but that they don't want Bernie to lose to the Republican, which so many of the media and others have preached that Bernie would lose as a "far left" candidate to someone like Trump or other Republicans.

Bernie's surging even faster than Obama did in 2007. Obama's first visit to Portland was only a few thousand compared to Bernie's 28,000 at about the same time. Yes Obama got 75,000 later when he came here, but that shows how much room Bernie has to grow here and elsewhere too.

[stevenleser]

63. He's not surging faster than Obama. Obama was 10 points down on Hillary by now, not 30 like Bernie

And Bernie hasn't made much progress on the National polling in the last 3 months.

[tavernier]

50. Every living Latino voter

(and in Miami, a few dead ones, if history repeats itself) will go to the polls and vote against Trump. I doubt Trump will get any black votes as he continues his racist birther stand. A good chunk of women,though not all, will resent his fat and ugly Rosie O'Donnell insults. A certain portion of repugs will snub him simply because he was willing to run third party, or once upon a time was a democrat. Very few democrats will vote for him because, well... he is nuts.

So that leaves the real cuckoos, the tea party dingbats, the NRA nuts. And Nugent.

I don't believe there are enough votes there to swing it his way.

[stevenleser]

60. And yet considering all that he is pretty close to both Bernie and Hillary in the polling.

I've been thinking about this a lot. If you are Trump's team, the day after the Repug convention is over, you send him and all surrogates out there saying the press portrayed his statements the wrong way, that wasn't what he meant, etc. He doesn't have to convince a ton of Latinos to vote for him, just 20-30% more than are voting for him now. Then say a few more centrist sounding things and he is right in it.

I don't think we should be discounting him.

[truebluegreen]

54. That's funny.

Trump is adored by about 25% of Republicans and he doesn't even know that he would need to move to the middle, he thinks his positions are winners NOW. Independents can't stand him, minorities, women, teh gays, certainly there won't be a Democratic crossover wave....

If it's Bernie v Trump I think we'd win 49 states (there's always one, but I can't even think which it would be).

[liberal N proud]

10. If I said what I think will happen, one group will jump all over me

Or another.
Either way, what I say is mere opinion and would only incite angry responses from which ever side I didn't side with.

[pampango]

11. Donald would protect us from foreigners but not the 1%. Bernie would protect us from our own 1% not

divert us with talk of immigrants, walls and tariffs (evil foreigners).

Bernie would be a modern FDR; Donald a modern Calvin Coolidge/Herbert Hoover.

[Sancho]

12. One thing we know! The winner would never get anything past Congress for 4 years!

Actually, I think a Bernie vs Trump debate right now would be interesting.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

14. Even if you believe that, the executive orders and actions would be substantially different. nt

[Sancho]

15. Have you notices how Obama's executive orders and nominees have been blocked?

Immigration, Gitmo, EPA enforcement, etc.

Bernie and Trump would have a Congress with the repubs and many Democrats unwilling to support either.

The executive orders would rarely be implemented; they would be challenged in court, have no support in either state or federal legislatures, and die a quick death.

Note that Bernie is one of the least effective legislators as a member of Congress for many years. Trump has no record.

All
Referred to Committee (328 bills)
Reported by Committee (13 bills)
Passed House (1 bill)
Agreed To (Simple Resolution) (2 bills)
Enacted — Signed by the President (3 bills)
Failed Cloture (2 bills)
Failed House (1 bill)

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/browse?sponsor=400357#sponsor=300022&current_status[]=28

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

18. 'least effective'

Simply means he's on the fringe, which everyone knows. You're on either end of the spectrum, you're going to have trouble getting enough other people to sign on to things. But I notice your 'effectiveness' goes to 'bills'.

So, for instance, it doesn't mention the changes he makes to other people's bills, such as getting lots of money for community clinics in the ACA.

Effectiveness is more than just standalone bills. If you have no bills of your own, you can still be incredibly effective by altering other people's bills.

[CTyankee]

40. I'm not so sure. I think lots of Dems now for Hillary would go over to Bernie.

Hillary fans are more likely to support Bernie if he were the Dem candidate before they would support a Republican...

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

13. I think you have to be a good chunk below average intelligence to vote for Trump.

So it would come down to voting patterns. If IQ is equally distributed among voters, Bernie wins. If stupid people vote and smart people don't, Trump wins.

[tabasco]

16. Good question.

[ladyVet]

25. Except, we weren't dumb, the presidency was stolen.

Personally, I think Trump would run like heck from any chance of confronting Sanders. Hillary's the one he wants to run against. If she wins the general, I think we can kiss another four years down the drain.

[tabasco]

43. Do you see that number on the magazine cover?

Yes, we are dumb.

[kelliekat44]

17. Bernie will win against Trump. If not, this country is screwed royally. nt

[Marr]

49. One good thing about the country choosing Trump over Sanders...

...if it happened, I could very happily leave the country and ignore US politics for the rest of my life.

[randome]

19. A quantum singularity will open and swallow the nation from sea to shining sea. Game over.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. ah others are joining me in this little foray

as a political reporter, politics turned on it's ear... what can I say, dream come true. Election night, ship a truck full of TUMMS please. I am going to sweat it.

Incidentally, comedians are also looking forwards to it, as a comedic gold. But a couple locally have also confessed to needing a truck full of TUMMS election night.

[0rganism]

23. a tight race, boiling down to the standard swing states

gotta give DT the edge in Florida -- that electorate seems like it has a downright evil streak.
so we're relying on Ohio to counter, which could be difficult if DT picks Kasich as a running mate.

[rufus dog]

30. It will be Uuge!

I hope it happens.

[JI7]

34. sanders would win

[HassleCat]

35. More fun than I dare imagine

It would be like somebody backed up with a whole dump truck full of fun and emptied the whole thing in my living room.

[840high]

55. It would be fun. I don't

know if my nerves could stand all that fun.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

36. Even against one another, I'm not convinced either man could win an election.

It might be the first ever US presidential election not to produce a victor...

[ananda]

37. Sanders by a landslide ...

... sounds about right.

[Vinca]

41. It depends.

If Trump picks Kim Kardashian as his running mate, he's a shoo in. Remember . . . only a fraction of the populace can name the sitting Vice President.

[olddots]

42. Trump buys the election

and I fucking kill myself .

[Gloria]

44. On some issues they sound very similar...but

I would think Trump would win...because he taps into so many of the secret hatreds and fears of the lovely American people!

Bernie expresses frustration, but not the hate we all love about what makes this country not-so-great...

[KamaAina]

45. A massive gender gap gives it to Bernie

True, Bernie's not Hillary, but neither is he a misogynist like tRump. Example:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027085747

[Marr]

48. Trump is Sanders' dream opponent. He's a cartoonish symbol of everything Sanders talks about.

Sanders would absolutely demolish Trump.

[azmom]

61. Yep

[stevenleser]

64. Once Trump plays the video his team would create of Sanders self describing as a Socialist

Multiple times, the election is over.

Im actually surprised no one has done that yet. My guess is an O'Malley supporting SuperPac will do it first.

[Picking Dem]

51. After Trump shoots himself on the foot repeatedly, it'll be a epic landslide of all 50 states for...

BERNIE.

It'll be a reverse landslide of 1984.

[Hydra]

57. Seriously, there aren't enough Republican voters left to elect any of their candidates fairly

Less than 20% of the country is Red and voting now. Mitt's numbers were horrible, and they're just going to get worse from simple demographics. Angry White Men are not a majority voting block anymore.

That's one of the reasons we're having such a nasty schism in our own party- a lot of Republican politicians are running as 3rd ways or "conservative" Democrats because they have no chance in what's left of the other party. The real dems in our party don't want them, and the R's won't vote for them either.

[John Poet]

65. Bernie will win.

It won't be a landslide, but it won't be a squeaker either.