Well if Hillary doesn't win it...it will be 45-0 for the men.

[trumad]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Aerows (a host of the General Discussion forum).

I see that as being kind of fucked up.

[hrmjustin]

1. Me too.

[Throd]

2. I don't.

[arcane1]

3. Unless Carly wins n/t

[jonno99]

5. That's funny right there! nt

[emulatorloo]

29. Hate to break it to you, she's actually Mitt Romney in a dress!

[mmonk]

4. I would vote for Elizabeth Warren.

It's not always what one thinks it is.

[NightWatcher]

6. I'd prefer the best candidate, regardless of hardware between their legs

[randys1]

26. Good to hear, which means if Hillary is the candidate, you surely could NEVER not vote for

her thus voting for a republican.

[Lucky Luciano]

7. Not a good enough reason to vote for Hillary.

I think most Bernie fans would have voted for Warren in a heartbeat.

[hifiguy]

12. 100% agreed, and IMO the worst possible reason to vote for her.

Had Warren run instead of Bernie I would support her every bit as wholeheartedly as I do him. My respect for her is enormous.

[smirkymonkey]

42. Absolutely true.

I actually prefer Warren to Bernie because I think she's more of a fighter for the middle class, but they both champion the common person.

Hillary does nothing for me, as much as I would like to see a female president. I will vote for her over a republican, but it would be nice to have someone who is actually a real Liberal Democrat for once.

[demmiblue]

8. You posted this in the wrong forum.

I mean, shite, there is even a warning page before you post. #notthathard

[trumad]

13. Really? Look how many Trump ops there are in this forum?

[demmiblue]

18. And?

GDP is designated for Democratic Primary talk, not GD. You didn't read the warning page? #notthathardtofigureout

[trumad]

19. Yeah I read it.

I also read about 10 different ops in GD that mentions candidates running for president. I thought it out and felt it should go in GD.

But thanks for your concern.

[demmiblue]

24. You are welcome.

[elleng]

9. So what? REALLY,

it's been the way of the world for centuries, and while I don't like that, it's a FACT.
(I'm a woman, senior, attended law school before it became popular for women to do so; I was a pioneer at the time; I don't object to pioneers.)

I object to supporting any candidate for superficial reasons such as gender.

[trumad]

17. I object to 45 -0.

[Syzygy321]

36. That's your prerogative. And I'm with Trumad.

Did it surprise anyone that black Americans went very heavily for Obama after 43 white guys? Sounds like a pretty normal response among people who have centuries of being oppressed.

OTOH: when American leaders are about half female, I will definitely adopt your attitude - because at that point, it won't matter anymore.

[ericson00]

10. I find great hypocrisy in the idea that in 2008,

many people, or enough people to make a difference, voted for Obama in the primary solely to "show the world we were 'over race." If those people cannot do the same for gender, they're hypocrites. Plain and simple.

I supported Hillary in 2008 and do again now, not just because we ought to have a female president, and this country has a lot more females (overall of all colours) than any ethnic minority, but because she has tons of experience, has the right views and policies, and the Clintons' record is the best thing to happen to America in the last 50 years, since after JFK, another Democratic Hero.

[demmiblue]

14. Wow, you think many people voted for President Obama just because he is African American?!

That is pretty messed up. Did you read what you wrote?

[ericson00]

15. not many people, but some people did do it to show we were "over race"

there's no denying that.

[demmiblue]

22. You went there. You basically said that President Obama won the primary because of race.

That is messed up. The vast majority of people supported him for his politics and his vision. I did not vote for him in the primary, but it was not because of his race.

[Syzygy321]

44. I think so too. He represented something:

young, fresh, hope, change. His looks and youth and pretty family were all part of that image - and most definitely his race was too. Remember all that screaming and swooning - and that tingle up the thigh - and the belief that he was something new who would make America wonderful? (Seems like a long time ago!)

You think that wasn't in part a race-based appeal? Come on. It was and there's nothing wrong with pointing it out. All pols are judged on superficials: looks and delivery and demographics and how well they stir voters' hopes.

(Their actual experience and policy is important too...somewhat, anyway - and to some people more than others.)

[Truprogressive85]

21. huh ?

many people, or enough people to make a difference, voted for Obama in the primary solely to "show the world we were 'over race." If those people cannot do the same for gender, they're hypocrites. Plain and simple.

excuse me !

I can guarantee you that majority of the peoplewho voted for Obama in 2008 was because he was better candidate

America is not post racial FYI

[PoliticAverse]

11. Indeed. A big problem is the lack of women in governorships, the Senate and House.

Currently in the Senate there are only 20 women (20%), in the House there are 84 women (19.3%),
and out of 50 Governors only 6 are (12%) are women.

[Smarmie Doofus]

16. That's what they said in UK when Thatcher was up for PM.

Think.

Think.

Think CAREFULLY.

[trumad]

20. What..they said 45 and 0?

[djean111]

23. Exactly my thought - we don't need a Thatcher.

Gender is not even on my list of reasons to vote for someone. I am an older white woman. I look at issues, and who I think will do the best good for everyone. This time - it is Bernie Sanders.

[hifiguy]

32. Yep. Policy first,

everything else, dead last.

[mmonk]

38. +1

[Syzygy321]

46. This reminds me of your post about Istanbul :)

If you are on the 45 side and not the 0 side, of course you don't care about gender.

That's understandable.

What puzzles me is why you make so little effort to understand how it feels to some women: to be constantly seeing a parade of males in power everywhere, to be aware of history and the struggles we have undertaken for justice, and to have personally lived with all the threats and diminished status and outright discrimination that some of us women (I would say all, but I dont want to speak for all!) generally live with.

Of course not all women feel as I and Trumad do, and that's fine. We aren't a monolith. And (I have heard) it is also our prerogative to change our cute flighty minds.

But: any political aware male who simply dismisses this female viewpoint without a thought - "Why the fuck should anyone vote for a woman just because of 45-0; that's stupid!" - is a lousy liberal.

Please don't be that guy. Be a better guy .

[hifiguy]

49. Bernie supports and stands for the things I have always supported.

He does so unequivocally, concretely and unabashedly with no weasel words. He is not owned by the tenth-percenters, the banksters and the MIC. To me the fact that he is beholden to no one but the people who support him is Reason #1 why I support him, and his economic policy and vision of what the country could be is a breath of fresh air after 35+ years of neoliberal/neofascist toadying to the wealthy. I support Bernie because of who and what he is and stands for, and for no other reason.

I would have loved to see Sen. Warren get into the race but she chose not to and Bernie did. If she had I would be supporting her 100%, but I respect her choice and she is an immensely valuable voice in the Senate and a truly worthy successor to Ted Kennedy.

[Syzygy321]

52. You misunderstand... Please listen. I will try to explain.

-- I am not talking Bernie vs Hillary. He's great. I will be happy if he wins.

-- I am not saying you are sexist. Voting for the candidate whose policies you favor is not sexist! In a perfect world everyone would vote on that basis - not on looks, speech delivery, gender, race, or charisma.

-- I am definitely not saying that anyone who votes against a woman or minority is a bad liberal.

-- I am saying I want you to respect my view. Which derives from my experience. Women are my team, my tribe - and we are always on the losing side, and have been throughout history (but we're gaining, you bastards! We're gaining on you! and one day we'll be even!). In my schools, in work, in marriage, I have frequently been pushed onto the losing side because I am female.

I wanna see my team win. Can you understand that? Not to beat down your team and make laws against you and rape you and control you (as your team has always done to mine). Just to be equal - so I and others don't have to endure that crap in the future.

I have a hope that when we are even and women lead and share responsibilities alongside men, all women will be as free as men.

Imagine if the leadership of Afghanistan were female - or even half female. Imagine if all countries were led by men and women together: Iran. Saudi Arabia. China. Japan. Mexico.

The US Senate.
Fortune 500 companies.
The cops.

That's what I want. Not as an end in itself but as a step toward freedom and security and equal opportunity for all.

I am not fool enough to think a woman in the WH will instantlyake us "post-misogynist.". (I didn't think the black guy would make us post-racial either.)

But I cheer for Clinton like I cheered for the Red Sox when they had gone 70-plus years without a championship.

You can understand that, can't you? All of you?.

[bobclark86]

34. Well, as Hillary ain't exactly Maggie ... n/t

[djean111]

35. I think Hillary may have the same tendency to want to appear tough, as Thatcher did.

I would have happily voted for Liz Warren. My support has nothing to do with gender.

[hifiguy]

40. She certainly spends a lot of her time sounding awfully hawkish.

And with a buddy like war criminal/mass murderer Kissinger, well, you can connect the dots.

[Spider Jerusalem]

25. Doesn't win what? The nomination?

I personally think it's a bit more fucked up to expect that someone should get something on the basis of gender (or race, for that matter) rather than because they're the best person for the job. I voted for Obama in the 2008 primary because I thought he was the best candidate. Not because he was black. If I vote for Clinton this time it'll be because I think she's the best candidate for the job, not because she's a woman. (And if I vote for someone else it'll be because I think they're a better candidate.)

[Kelvin Mace]

27. If only Warren had run,

it would have been a 44-1 dead cert.

[Autumn]

28. We need more women in politics. Congress and the Senate should be loaded with women

then it would be easy to elect a woman president. I had hoped to see one in my lifetime.

[seveneyes]

30. From a ghost to a ghost

We are all equal in the end...

[ram2008]

31. That doesn't mean any woman should be president

If warren would've run she would be in the lead right now.

[untrue]

33. Don't blame men when women lose elections

Grimes and Wendy Davis both lost the female vote to men.
When pro-choice women lose statewide elections, and they lose the female vote- don't blame men.

More women than men vote, there are more women than men in the democratic party, and they vote in higher numbers.

When a progressive voter votes, gender, sexual preference, skin color, and appearance are meaningless. Democrats vote for the better candidate, and Bernie Sanders is the better candidate.

Guess what, a female president is inevitable, if Hillary doesn't win we will get another female candidate.

[TSIAS]

37. When Palin lost

That was 44-0 for the men, but not necessarily a bad thing.

[leftofcool]

39. Yes

[hughee99]

41. Since men have been on both sides,

Isn't it 45-45? In reality, there's been far more than 45 elections, so the number is much higher.

Sure, we all know what the republicans are all about, but if a woman can't even win the Dem primary, why should we be surprised one hasn't won a presidential election yet?

[untrue]

45. there are more women voters than men

there are more registered women voters than men.
women turnout to vote in higher numbers than men.

when Grimes loses the female vote to Mitch McConell, and when Wendy Davis loses the female vote, men are not to blame.
Women will win more elections and races if they run better candidates.

If Hillary losses the female vote to Bernie that is on her, Don't blame the women if they pick Bernie over Hillary. Hillary can only blame herself if she losses the womens vote.

[left-of-center2012]

43. I vote for the candidate whose ideas I support

My vote isn't based on the candidate's sex.
2016 belongs to Bernie.

[SheilaT]

47. To suggest that any of us should vote for Hillary Clinton

because she is a woman, regardless of her qualification, regardless of her history, regardless of the qualities of any of her opponents, is patronizing.

I would love to see a woman as President. But I don't happen to think Hillary Clinton is the right choice at all. I absolutely wish Elizabeth Warren were running, but she's not. So I'm a Bernie supporter.

And to call it 45-0 is pretty dumb, given that no woman has ever been at the top of the ticket, and only two have been VP nominees so far. So 2-0 would be more accurate.

[ismnotwasm]

48. That's 'cause it is fucked up

Or, as my naturalized Korean American friend said(who is voting for Hillary for all kinds of excellent reasons) "Even in South Korea we have a woman president"

[AppalachianLeftist]

50. Don't really care if the next 45 Presidents are men, women or barnyard animals that can talk.

As long as they put forth policies I can rally behind.

I don't rally around body parts, skin color, religion, geographical location, etc. That's an absurd way to vote and it makes America suck.

[840high]

51. I vote for the best

candidate - not for gender.

[Amishman]

54. this, i hope we have a woman president soon, just not a corporate controlled one

We can do better than Hillary.

Voting for Hillary only because of her gender is no better than those who would not vote for Barack Obama because of his race.

Vote people, not genetics.

[Glassunion]

53. Actually 0-25

I always put wins first.

Only 25 have run for president on the Dem ticket. Several of them in the same election cycle.

Wiki: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_United_States_presidential_and_vice-presidential_candidates

That said, in '08, would I be sexist for voting for Obama, or racist for voting for Hillary?

[RufusTFirefly]

55. I agree that it's kind of fucked up. In fact, it's an international embarrassment

But that's no reason to vote for a saber-rattling, Wall Street cozy, inauthentic corporatist.

[Aerows]

56. This conversation should be directed to GD:P

That is the forum for general discussion of Democratic Primary candidates. Please start the thread and continue the conversation there.