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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsUS Service Members foil suspected terrorist attack (UPDATED)
Last edited Sat Aug 22, 2015, 04:12 PM - Edit history (1)
Additional details to earlier reports --
A group of unarmed US Marines on board a high-speed train between Amsterdam and Paris foiled a terrorist attack after a gunman opened fire with an assault rifle, wounding three people.
The 26-year-old Moroccan national, who was known to security services, came out of the toilet brandishing the gun and opened fire. Fortunately, two US Marines were nearby and overpowered him before he could massacre passengers.
The suspected terrorist had at least nine full magazines of ammunition holding almost 300 rounds. He was also carrying a knife.
Unfortunately, one of the Marines was shot and is believed to be in a critical condition.
Keep fighting, Airman.
This next part leaped out at me --
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3206426/U-S-Marines-armed-gunman-onboard-high-speed-train-Amsterdam-Paris.html
UPDATE -- Not Marines as earlier reported.
The guard member, 22-year-old Alek Skarlatos, had wrapped up a tour in Afghanistan in July and was spending a month in Europe with friends, his stepmother Karen Skarlatos told The Oregonian/OregonLive on Friday night.
He was on the Amsterdam-to-Paris train with a group, including childhood friends Anthony Sadler, a senior at Sacramento State University, and Spencer Stone, a member of the U.S. Air Force, Sadler told the Associated Press.
http://www.oregonlive.com/today/index.ssf/2015/08/oregon_national_guard_member_h.html
Thanks to Warren Demontague for the link.
chieftain
(3,222 posts)GoneOffShore
(17,572 posts)Learn something every day.
Response to GoneOffShore (Reply #78)
Snobblevitch This message was self-deleted by its author.
GoneOffShore
(17,572 posts)One guy was Air Force, the other was National Guard.
Oh and the Brit who leant a hand was just a guy on the train.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)narnian60
(3,510 posts)Hope that Marine makes it.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)US Service Members will always report for duty -- wherever that may be.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Great work, guys
malaise
(277,091 posts)cartridges - this is not good for the NRA.
Congrats Marines!!!
former9thward
(33,349 posts)The terrorist. The Marines would have not been harmed. By your logic we should disarm police, military, secret service. Should work out ...
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Right?
Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #7)
Renew Deal This message was self-deleted by its author.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Coincidentally, the first police officer to respond was unarmed. He was executed in the streets.
alarimer
(16,466 posts)Gun nuts are fucking cowards. Small, tiny, men who carry large weapons to make up for their shortcomings. Not one would ever do what those guys did. I'm sure they benefited from years of training, but still.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Syzygy321
(583 posts)with small-penis jokes and tiny-little-man jokes and can't-get-laid jokes and lives-with-his-mother jokes and all the rest. Those comments are anti-man and anti-woman, and just plain offensive.
I am trying to get the word out.
Also: mocking guys for being cowards (not having physical bravery in battle) is also offensive. I certainly admire men with physical bravery (and nothing's sexier than a Marine punching out an armed terrorist) but at the same time I don't think it's every man's obligation to pound his chest and rush into a fight.
(Now *moral* courage, that's different - that's something I want from all men AND all women.)
steve2470
(37,461 posts)herding cats
(19,585 posts)May the critical Marine make a full recovery. Those Marines all earned hero status in my book.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)SCantiGOP
(14,152 posts)Just hate to see the pro-gun trolls try to kill the vibe on this thread.
snagglepuss
(12,704 posts)friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)a la izquierda
(11,876 posts)Gothmog
(153,634 posts)Any word on the wounded marine?
GoneOffShore
(17,572 posts)KamaAina
(78,249 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)KamaAina
(78,249 posts)wouldn't the gendarmerie have spotted him, too?
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)If these men had that duty, they would probably have received very specific training about identifying potential threats.
The look and weight of the bag probably alerted them, and I assume the man wasn't sauntering along gaily smiling.
leanforward
(1,080 posts)These guys were not sky larks, and applied their training and common sense. As I mentioned in another post, they will be recognized by the French and their lives have been changed forever. Their duty station will be changed. Is their Quantico in there future for training others?
tabasco
(22,974 posts)Army Guard, Air Force and civilian.
7962
(11,841 posts)Stryder
(450 posts)It was a Metric Shit Ton. My favorite unit of measure.
Glassunion
(10,201 posts)those who have been to the moon.
7962
(11,841 posts)HFRN
(1,469 posts)and swung into action
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)KamaAina
(78,249 posts)What made them follow him onto the train?
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)if, as has been speculated, they were embassy guards, Marines are trained to look for certain suspicious actions that would indicate that someone is up to no good.
As it turned out, they were right and probably saved untold lives.
7962
(11,841 posts)Most of these types have a look about them. Not casual.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)Sounds like a good thing.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)certain I was one of the 46.
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)7962
(11,841 posts)yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)davidpdx
(22,000 posts)Didn't see it. Given the description of what was posted up thread, I'm glad for that.
pocoloco
(3,180 posts)to function in every country without knowing the native language, using a person's
action and movements to help determine the possible danger.
Semper Fi for sure!!
tblue37
(66,035 posts)Snobblevitch
(1,958 posts)GoneOffShore
(17,572 posts)Read the BBC report and interview.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34023361
Nobody followed him onto the train. Don't know where CNN gets this stuff.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)Now for sure we all know!
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)7962
(11,841 posts)GGJohn
(9,951 posts)Have you no shame at all?
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)but I think the poster is saying what he said to point out the fact that, when white people do a shooting the media calls it mental illness, when a brown skinned person does it it is terrorism.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)I doubt it.
He's free to clarify his remark, but he's got me on ignore, so I'll just have to by his past statements.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,667 posts)7962
(11,841 posts)Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)Never miss a chance to be a cartoon.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)I'd say they didn't know he was a terrorist until he walked into the car with a fucking AK-47.
lpbk2713
(43,177 posts)see that the fallen Marine will be well taken care of in every way possible.
And he won't make a show of it like some others I could think of.
philosslayer
(3,076 posts)I can assure you the French will take care of that themselves.
Rozlee
(2,529 posts)Two of them managed to subdue a dangerous armed suspect while it takes a dozen cops to bring down unarmed black folk in the US. My heart goes out to the injured Marine and I hope he pulls through.
Snobblevitch
(1,958 posts)Kalashnikov, with a better chance that neither of them would have received a critical wound.
Rozlee
(2,529 posts)police officers in the US are trained to go for torso shots when firing at suspects. They aren't trained much in incapacitating shots, they are taught mostly in deadly force shootings. It's a sad fact of life here in the US that our law enforcement are taught to shoot to kill instead of shoot to disarm or render incapable.
7962
(11,841 posts)The objective is always to stop the threat. "Winging him" usually only happens in the movies or by accident.
Pistols lose accuracy quickly as distance increases. Sure, at 2 feet you could hit an extremity, but even then your 1st objective is to take down the other guy.
Go to a gun range and try it out, its eye opening.
Just a week ago I saw an old Bruce Willis movie called "Hostage". The bad guys are on a house balcony and using a pistol they shoot out the windows and one cop driving up the road headed TOWARD the house. Probably at least 75 yards from the screen view. And just about impossible in real life. But we see stuff like that a LOT in the movies.
Rozlee
(2,529 posts)To begin with, my comment wasn't about shooting at armed suspects. It was about needing to take down unarmed ones. Officers should be trained to shoot to disarm. If you say it's hard to do, maybe they should be trained to do it. US cops killed more people in March than UK cops killed in the entire 20th century. Only about over half of them were armed. Americans are being killed by cops for non-violent offenses and mere misdemeanors or no crimes at all. What's wrong with taking down an unarmed suspect without killing him? Or letting a running suspect go without shooting him in the back? In such a case, they can surely aim low and try for a non-torso shot or better, no shot at all.
Snobblevitch
(1,958 posts)This guy had an AK and a handgun.9
What are you talking about? Are you serious?
Rozlee
(2,529 posts)Do the names Tamir Rice strike a chord? Michael Brown? Walter Scott? What were they doing that merited kill shots?
Snobblevitch
(1,958 posts)What does an unarmed situation have to do with what happened on that train, other than the fact that the men who stopped the terrorist had no firearms.
Police officers are not trained to shoot to kill, they're trained to shoot until the threat is neutralized.
Rozlee
(2,529 posts)American police kill more of their own people in one year than Europeans have in the last hundred years. Almost half of them unarmed, many in the back as they're fleeing. A fleeing suspect does not pose a threat.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)Again, police are not trained to shoot to kill, they're trained to shoot until the threat is neutralized.
Rozlee
(2,529 posts)Or in a child playing in a park? Or a man flagging down police for help? A black American suspect is three times more likely to be killed by police than a white one and is twice as likely to be unarmed. In San Francisco recently, a half dozen cops ganged up on a homeless one-legged man to handcuff him and immobilize him on the ground for several minutes. Unless he was an X-Man, I don't see why so many were needed to accomplish such a take down. Police should never shoot an unarmed suspect that's fleeing them. They should never shoot an unarmed suspect, period, unless he's attacking them and they know they can't subdue him with physical force.
Snobblevitch
(1,958 posts)Rozlee
(2,529 posts)Nothing. Just an observation.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)You said that police are trained to shoot to kill did you not?
I replied that police are not trained to kill, they're trained to shoot until the threat is neutralized.
That is fact.
Rozlee
(2,529 posts)there is no threat. There are very many good cops around and they risk their lives on the streets. But, unless you've been living on a deserted island, you're bound to have heard of the killings abounding in the US of unarmed black men by police and even white men. An East Indian man paralyzed for life because he didn't understand what was being said to him and kept walking away. He wasn't shot, but he was slammed to the ground and his back broken. A deaf old man shot when he didn't understand police and kept walking toward them, unarmed. A young unarmed man having a seizure was gunned down by police. They were neutralized, all right. The trouble was, they never posed a threat.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)during their training, they're taught to shoot until the threat is neutralized, not trained to shoot to kill.
Rozlee
(2,529 posts)They're trained to shoot center-mass, where the most vital organs are. That's neutralizing alright.
www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/12/police-gun-shooting-training-ferguson/383681/
www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/21/police-shoot-kill-taser-force-experts-law
As the latter article states, police lobbyists have fought to keep legislation from being introduced that will introduce training for less than lethal force or minimum force. All police carry at least one other weapon besides a gun, i.e. stun gun, baton, etc.
To throw you a bone, an ex-police officer does play semantics with his training on neutralizing vs. killing. It's an interesting exercise as he understands there is no difference between the two.
www.policeone.com/use-of-force/articles/3468112-Shooting-center-mass-Shooting-to-kill-or-to-stop/
sarisataka
(20,715 posts)there must be an echo in France-
Come on, you sons of bitches! Do you want to live forever?
GySgt. Daniel J. "Dan" Daly, USMC
near Lucy-`le-Bocage as he led the 5th Marines' attack into Belleau Wood, 6 June 1918
Best wishes to the wounded Marine and other victims
spanone
(137,414 posts)roscoeroscoe
(1,576 posts)Way to go Marines
LiberalEsto
(22,845 posts)Last edited Sat Aug 22, 2015, 04:57 PM - Edit history (1)
The courage of the Marines who tackled this gunman while unarmed themselves, brought him down and tied him up, preventing possibly hundreds of casualties -- it's just phenomenal.
GoneOffShore
(17,572 posts)still_one
(95,621 posts)ericson00
(2,707 posts)n/t
Snobblevitch
(1,958 posts)or are you seriously mocking the marines involved?
ericson00
(2,707 posts)Syzygy321
(583 posts)but remain puzzled as to why marines on leave decided to follow this guy onto a train. ??
Gigabear
(58 posts)when they noticed him.
Syzygy321
(583 posts)Snobblevitch
(1,958 posts)on or near the train platform and followed him onto the train.
leanforward
(1,080 posts)In a sense these marines were not unarmed. These gentlemen have earned some French respect. I'm waiting to hear their side of what happened. These guys stopped some unbelievable carnage. I hope and pray that the wounded marine will be okay. I know in these matters resources are available without question. The NATO establishment is present as are others, to numerous to mention. I would say there is a special mission available for the gentlemen when needed. Likewise, I hope they keep the two members of the brotherhood together, until the family reunion.
DFW
(56,281 posts)It's called a Thalys. It goes from Brussels to Paris in 80 minutes, and made the air route practically obsolete. The aisles are extremely narrow. Someone bringing a bag big enough for a Kalashnikov into the toilet would cause more than a few people to wonder why. No one needs THAT much extra toilet paper.
The disturbing (but sadly not surprising) fact is that the Moroccan was known to security services, and Belgian security services patrol the train platforms for exactly this kind of guy. Or, at least, that's what they pretend to be doing.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)then onto the train? He must have looked different from everyone else, and they were looking for...?
They must have been catching that train anyway, or does everyone carry tickets around with them?
DFW
(56,281 posts)I try to get reservations a week in advance and half the time it is already full.
Probably pure dumb luck. Brussels-Paris is 80 minutes. Sometimes people go down there for dinner and come back up to Brussels just because Paris hotels are so goddamned expensive.
Xipe Totec
(44,036 posts)GoneOffShore
(17,572 posts)Because the three guys involved were an Air Force guy, a National Guardsman and some Brit guy not in any branch of the US armed forces.
Xipe Totec
(44,036 posts)And don't get too snooty, mr Johnny come lately.
GoneOffShore
(17,572 posts)Saw the original when it came out over here on both France24 and BBC.
I'm presently in Bordeaux and saw the news reports that identified the Americans as a National Guardsman and a member of the Air Force.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Here's wishing a full recovery to the guy who was hurt, later stories have him as attacked with a box cutter but not in critical condition, so that's good.
Well done, gentlemen. Well done.
muriel_volestrangler
(102,292 posts)and their (civilian) friend followed.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34023361
It seems he shot at least once with a handgun, from which the magazine fell out at some stage; his rifle malfunctioned, and he couldn't fix it (not sure if he got any shots out of it).
DFW
(56,281 posts)There's no way a passenger could comfortably take a gun out of a bag in the passenger compartment without having to do contortions and give people time to see what he's doing and rush him. However, if he takes a bulky bag into the toilet (and they are small enough to give anyone claustrophobia), he'll have the time to assemble his rifle, though not with much room. The doors are not thick, and if someone is familiar with this kind of firearm, the sounds of one being assembled can be heard over the sound of the train's wheels.
muriel_volestrangler
(102,292 posts)and that was when the gun went off.
He "courageously tried to tackle him before the attacker fired several shots," he added.
http://www.expatica.com/fr/news/country-news/Five-who-foiled-an-attack-on-a-European-train_504868.html
After that, the Americans tackled him.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)A great act by a fellow Oregonian! Thanks so much sir for saving lives, and helping rebuild our country's image too at the same time!
drray23
(7,855 posts)that what happened is a french passenger first came faced with the terrorist as the guy was exiting the toilets with his weapon. The french civilian the struggled with the gunman attempting to disarm him which led to the shots fired. The two US servicemen saw that and immediatly jumped in to tackle and take out the guy. All three are being hailed as heroes.
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)So glad they were there, and I hope the injured man makes a full recovery.
Glassunion
(10,201 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)You should at least edit your OP.
Glassunion
(10,201 posts)Funny how the media works. First they report bullshit, or rumor, or opinion, then a few days later they finally get their story straight.
We know now (a day later) that they may not have been Marines. Who knows tomorrow they may be something else.
But the author of the OP was going with what information was available to her at the time.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)They were not Marines.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)Just gotta stick up for my branch here, ya know?
sarisataka
(20,715 posts)Y'all are finally paying attention
Doesn't matter if it is a Zoomie, Jarhead or Jody-back-on-the-block, taking on an armed attacker bare-handed is something special.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)hollowdweller
(4,229 posts)with an AK47 trying to kill you.
1939
(1,683 posts)betsuni
(27,251 posts)and I'm really angry. Does anyone have a suggestion as to what to say that will shut that down? Haven't seen any conspiracy theories about this yet, but they must be out there.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)They used their intuition and training and jumped into action turning what could have been a blood bath with mass casualties into a minor shooting.