Fri Aug 21, 2015, 06:14 PM
Nuclear Unicorn (19,497 posts)
US Service Members foil suspected terrorist attack (UPDATED)Last edited Sat Aug 22, 2015, 04:12 PM - Edit history (1)
Additional details to earlier reports --
Unarmed US Marines foil suspected terrorist attack onboard high-speed train between Amsterdam and Paris after they take down Kalashnikov-wielding Moroccan gunman known to intelligence services
A group of unarmed US Marines on board a high-speed train between Amsterdam and Paris foiled a terrorist attack after a gunman opened fire with an assault rifle, wounding three people. The 26-year-old Moroccan national, who was known to security services, came out of the toilet brandishing the gun and opened fire. Fortunately, two US Marines were nearby and overpowered him before he could massacre passengers. The suspected terrorist had at least nine full magazines of ammunition holding almost 300 rounds. He was also carrying a knife. Unfortunately, one of the Marines was shot and is believed to be in a critical condition. Keep fighting, Airman. ![]() This next part leaped out at me -- Belgian journalist Marin Buxant Tweeted that the US Marines were on leave in Brussels when they spotted the man and followed him on the train. When the suspect went into the toilet, the Marines recognised the sound of a weapon being armed and decided to act immediately.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3206426/U-S-Marines-armed-gunman-onboard-high-speed-train-Amsterdam-Paris.html UPDATE -- Not Marines as earlier reported. An Oregon Army National Guard member from Roseburg was one of three Americans who stopped a gunman who opened fire Friday aboard a high-speed train passing through Belgium.
The guard member, 22-year-old Alek Skarlatos, had wrapped up a tour in Afghanistan in July and was spending a month in Europe with friends, his stepmother Karen Skarlatos told The Oregonian/OregonLive on Friday night. He was on the Amsterdam-to-Paris train with a group, including childhood friends Anthony Sadler, a senior at Sacramento State University, and Spencer Stone, a member of the U.S. Air Force, Sadler told the Associated Press. http://www.oregonlive.com/today/index.ssf/2015/08/oregon_national_guard_member_h.html Thanks to Warren Demontague for the link.
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125 replies, 7852 views
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Author | Time | Post |
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Nuclear Unicorn | Aug 2015 | OP |
chieftain | Aug 2015 | #1 | |
GoneOffShore | Aug 2015 | #78 | |
Snobblevitch | Aug 2015 | #84 | |
GoneOffShore | Aug 2015 | #85 | |
msanthrope | Aug 2015 | #2 | |
narnian60 | Aug 2015 | #3 | |
Nuclear Unicorn | Aug 2015 | #4 | |
Duckhunter935 | Aug 2015 | #27 | |
malaise | Aug 2015 | #5 | |
former9thward | Aug 2015 | #6 | |
Nuclear Unicorn | Aug 2015 | #7 | |
Renew Deal | Aug 2015 | #18 | |
Nuclear Unicorn | Aug 2015 | #30 | |
alarimer | Aug 2015 | #26 | |
Nuclear Unicorn | Aug 2015 | #28 | |
Syzygy321 | Aug 2015 | #47 | |
steve2470 | Aug 2015 | #80 | |
herding cats | Aug 2015 | #8 | |
smirkymonkey | Aug 2015 | #10 | |
SCantiGOP | Aug 2015 | #24 | |
snagglepuss | Aug 2015 | #42 | |
friendly_iconoclast | Aug 2015 | #75 | |
a la izquierda | Aug 2015 | #50 | |
Gothmog | Aug 2015 | #9 | |
GoneOffShore | Aug 2015 | #92 | |
KamaAina | Aug 2015 | #11 | |
msanthrope | Aug 2015 | #13 | |
KamaAina | Aug 2015 | #17 | |
msanthrope | Aug 2015 | #22 | |
Yo_Mama | Aug 2015 | #52 | |
leanforward | Aug 2015 | #58 | |
tabasco | Aug 2015 | #94 | |
7962 | Aug 2015 | #19 | |
Stryder | Aug 2015 | #36 | |
Glassunion | Aug 2015 | #38 | |
7962 | Aug 2015 | #63 | |
HFRN | Aug 2015 | #29 | |
msanthrope | Aug 2015 | #57 | |
KamaAina | Aug 2015 | #65 | |
GGJohn | Aug 2015 | #67 | |
7962 | Aug 2015 | #21 | |
Nuclear Unicorn | Aug 2015 | #31 | |
yeoman6987 | Aug 2015 | #34 | |
Nuclear Unicorn | Aug 2015 | #53 | |
pinboy3niner | Aug 2015 | #56 | |
7962 | Aug 2015 | #64 | |
yeoman6987 | Aug 2015 | #68 | |
davidpdx | Aug 2015 | #118 | |
pocoloco | Aug 2015 | #33 | |
tblue37 | Aug 2015 | #100 | |
Snobblevitch | Aug 2015 | #40 | |
GoneOffShore | Aug 2015 | #93 | |
Fred Sanders | Aug 2015 | #12 | |
cherokeeprogressive | Aug 2015 | #14 | |
Nuclear Unicorn | Aug 2015 | #15 | |
7962 | Aug 2015 | #20 | |
GGJohn | Aug 2015 | #35 | |
awoke_in_2003 | Aug 2015 | #44 | |
GGJohn | Aug 2015 | #48 | |
Hassin Bin Sober | Aug 2015 | #61 | |
7962 | Aug 2015 | #66 | |
Yo_Mama | Aug 2015 | #49 | |
Codeine | Aug 2015 | #117 | |
cherokeeprogressive | Aug 2015 | #121 | |
lpbk2713 | Aug 2015 | #16 | |
philosslayer | Aug 2015 | #59 | |
Rozlee | Aug 2015 | #23 | |
Snobblevitch | Aug 2015 | #39 | |
Rozlee | Aug 2015 | #46 | |
7962 | Aug 2015 | #69 | |
Rozlee | Aug 2015 | #102 | |
Snobblevitch | Aug 2015 | #114 | |
Snobblevitch | Aug 2015 | #70 | |
Rozlee | Aug 2015 | #103 | |
Snobblevitch | Aug 2015 | #115 | |
GGJohn | Aug 2015 | #71 | |
Rozlee | Aug 2015 | #105 | |
GGJohn | Aug 2015 | #112 | |
Rozlee | Aug 2015 | #113 | |
Snobblevitch | Aug 2015 | #116 | |
Rozlee | Aug 2015 | #122 | |
GGJohn | Aug 2015 | #120 | |
Rozlee | Aug 2015 | #123 | |
GGJohn | Aug 2015 | #124 | |
Rozlee | Aug 2015 | #125 | |
sarisataka | Aug 2015 | #25 | |
spanone | Aug 2015 | #32 | |
roscoeroscoe | Aug 2015 | #37 | |
LiberalEsto | Aug 2015 | #41 | |
GoneOffShore | Aug 2015 | #96 | |
still_one | Aug 2015 | #43 | |
ericson00 | Aug 2015 | #45 | |
Snobblevitch | Aug 2015 | #72 | |
ericson00 | Aug 2015 | #81 | |
Syzygy321 | Aug 2015 | #51 | |
Gigabear | Aug 2015 | #54 | |
Syzygy321 | Aug 2015 | #60 | |
Snobblevitch | Aug 2015 | #73 | |
leanforward | Aug 2015 | #55 | |
DFW | Aug 2015 | #62 | |
jtuck004 | Aug 2015 | #101 | |
DFW | Aug 2015 | #109 | |
Xipe Totec | Aug 2015 | #74 | |
GoneOffShore | Aug 2015 | #95 | |
Xipe Totec | Aug 2015 | #97 | |
GoneOffShore | Aug 2015 | #98 | |
Warren DeMontague | Aug 2015 | #76 | |
muriel_volestrangler | Aug 2015 | #77 | |
DFW | Aug 2015 | #89 | |
muriel_volestrangler | Aug 2015 | #90 | |
cascadiance | Aug 2015 | #106 | |
drray23 | Aug 2015 | #79 | |
Waiting For Everyman | Aug 2015 | #82 | |
Glassunion | Aug 2015 | #83 | |
cwydro | Aug 2015 | #86 | |
Glassunion | Aug 2015 | #87 | |
cwydro | Aug 2015 | #88 | |
Nuclear Unicorn | Aug 2015 | #91 | |
cwydro | Aug 2015 | #99 | |
sarisataka | Aug 2015 | #107 | |
cwydro | Aug 2015 | #108 | |
hollowdweller | Aug 2015 | #104 | |
1939 | Aug 2015 | #110 | |
betsuni | Aug 2015 | #111 | |
davidpdx | Aug 2015 | #119 |
Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 06:16 PM
chieftain (3,222 posts)
1. Semper Fi !!!
Response to chieftain (Reply #1)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 07:51 AM
GoneOffShore (16,453 posts)
78. Didn't know that was the Air Force motto as well.
Learn something every day.
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Response to GoneOffShore (Reply #78)
Snobblevitch This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to Snobblevitch (Reply #84)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 01:21 PM
GoneOffShore (16,453 posts)
85. Nope - read the BBC & France 24 accounts
One guy was Air Force, the other was National Guard.
Oh and the Brit who leant a hand was just a guy on the train. |
Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 06:16 PM
msanthrope (37,549 posts)
2. Brave Devil Dogs. nt
Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 06:29 PM
narnian60 (3,507 posts)
3. How terrifying.
Hope that Marine makes it.
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Response to narnian60 (Reply #3)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 06:30 PM
Nuclear Unicorn (19,497 posts)
4. "Hope that Marine makes it."
US Service Members will always report for duty -- wherever that may be.
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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #4)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 07:55 PM
Duckhunter935 (16,974 posts)
27. So true
Great work, guys
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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 06:45 PM
malaise (245,739 posts)
5. Good guys without guns foil bad guy with assault rifle and lots of
cartridges - this is not good for the NRA.
![]() Congrats Marines!!! |
Response to malaise (Reply #5)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 06:47 PM
former9thward (26,566 posts)
6. +If they were armed there would only be one person shot.
The terrorist. The Marines would have not been harmed. By your logic we should disarm police, military, secret service. Should work out ...
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Response to malaise (Reply #5)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 06:52 PM
Nuclear Unicorn (19,497 posts)
7. Just like gun control kept the shooter from acquiring a rifle and nine 30-round magazines.
Right?
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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #7)
Renew Deal This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to Renew Deal (Reply #18)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 08:10 PM
Nuclear Unicorn (19,497 posts)
30. Like the foiled attack on Charlie Hebdo
Coincidentally, the first police officer to respond was unarmed. He was executed in the streets.
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Response to malaise (Reply #5)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 07:52 PM
alarimer (16,245 posts)
26. Exactly.
Gun nuts are fucking cowards. Small, tiny, men who carry large weapons to make up for their shortcomings. Not one would ever do what those guys did. I'm sure they benefited from years of training, but still.
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Response to alarimer (Reply #26)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 08:08 PM
Nuclear Unicorn (19,497 posts)
28. Women and minorities are the fastest growing segment of the gun owning population.
Response to alarimer (Reply #26)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 09:47 PM
Syzygy321 (583 posts)
47. I'm a woman and a feminist - and I hate seeing men mocked
with small-penis jokes and tiny-little-man jokes and can't-get-laid jokes and lives-with-his-mother jokes and all the rest. Those comments are anti-man and anti-woman, and just plain offensive.
I am trying to get the word out. Also: mocking guys for being cowards (not having physical bravery in battle) is also offensive. I certainly admire men with physical bravery (and nothing's sexier than a Marine punching out an armed terrorist) but at the same time I don't think it's every man's obligation to pound his chest and rush into a fight. (Now *moral* courage, that's different - that's something I want from all men AND all women.) |
Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 06:53 PM
herding cats (18,151 posts)
8. No telling how many lives they saved.
May the critical Marine make a full recovery. Those Marines all earned hero status in my book.
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Response to herding cats (Reply #8)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 07:06 PM
smirkymonkey (63,221 posts)
10. +1000
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Response to smirkymonkey (Reply #10)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 07:46 PM
SCantiGOP (12,447 posts)
24. +1001
Just hate to see the pro-gun trolls try to kill the vibe on this thread.
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Response to SCantiGOP (Reply #24)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 09:12 PM
snagglepuss (12,704 posts)
42. They're no better than Westboro Baptist Church fanatics.
Response to snagglepuss (Reply #42)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 05:16 AM
friendly_iconoclast (15,333 posts)
75. You're not familiar with the OP, are you?
Response to SCantiGOP (Reply #24)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 09:58 PM
a la izquierda (11,501 posts)
50. this nt
Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 06:53 PM
Gothmog (113,579 posts)
9. Our bravest and finest did a good job here
Any word on the wounded marine?
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Response to Gothmog (Reply #9)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 04:14 PM
GoneOffShore (16,453 posts)
92. Air Force guy.
Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 07:13 PM
KamaAina (78,249 posts)
11. How would they have recognized him?
the US Marines were on leave in Brussels when they spotted the man and followed him on the train.
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Response to KamaAina (Reply #11)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 07:16 PM
msanthrope (37,549 posts)
13. I'm guessing a Kalashnikov and a shit ton of ammo in a bag are kind of distinctive. nt
Response to msanthrope (Reply #13)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 07:22 PM
KamaAina (78,249 posts)
17. If he was walking down the street like that
wouldn't the gendarmerie have spotted him, too?
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Response to KamaAina (Reply #17)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 07:40 PM
msanthrope (37,549 posts)
22. Perhaps. Perhaps not. nt
Response to KamaAina (Reply #17)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 10:07 PM
Yo_Mama (8,303 posts)
52. Marines I believe are commonly used for embassy security
If these men had that duty, they would probably have received very specific training about identifying potential threats.
The look and weight of the bag probably alerted them, and I assume the man wasn't sauntering along gaily smiling. |
Response to Yo_Mama (Reply #52)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 10:39 PM
leanforward (1,046 posts)
58. embassy security
These guys were not sky larks, and applied their training and common sense. As I mentioned in another post, they will be recognized by the French and their lives have been changed forever. Their duty station will be changed. Is their Quantico in there future for training others?
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Response to leanforward (Reply #58)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 04:42 PM
tabasco (22,974 posts)
94. Sorry, they weren't Marines.
Army Guard, Air Force and civilian.
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Response to msanthrope (Reply #13)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 07:25 PM
7962 (11,841 posts)
19. "A shit ton". That always gets me laughing! Thats a LOT!
Response to 7962 (Reply #19)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 08:34 PM
Stryder (450 posts)
36. Brussels to Paris?
It was a Metric Shit Ton. My favorite unit of measure.
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Response to Stryder (Reply #36)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 08:40 PM
Glassunion (10,201 posts)
38. There's two types of country in the world. Those who use the metric system and
those who have been to the moon.
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Response to Glassunion (Reply #38)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 11:14 PM
7962 (11,841 posts)
63. Another good one! nt
Response to msanthrope (Reply #13)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 08:10 PM
HFRN (1,469 posts)
29. article says they heard the distinct sound of loading the gun from inside the restroom
and swung into action
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Response to HFRN (Reply #29)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 10:35 PM
msanthrope (37,549 posts)
57. They weren't passengers....they saw the guy in the station and followed him onto the train. nt
Response to HFRN (Reply #29)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 11:16 PM
KamaAina (78,249 posts)
65. That was after they were on the train.
What made them follow him onto the train?
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Response to KamaAina (Reply #65)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 11:22 PM
GGJohn (9,951 posts)
67. They probably saw something that set off danger signals,
if, as has been speculated, they were embassy guards, Marines are trained to look for certain suspicious actions that would indicate that someone is up to no good.
As it turned out, they were right and probably saved untold lives. |
Response to KamaAina (Reply #11)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 07:28 PM
7962 (11,841 posts)
21. They've been trained at recognizing suspicious people.
Most of these types have a look about them. Not casual.
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Response to KamaAina (Reply #11)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 08:12 PM
Nuclear Unicorn (19,497 posts)
31. Post #12 suggests Islamophobia
Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #31)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 08:29 PM
yeoman6987 (14,449 posts)
34. Whoever post 12 is must have me on ignore
Sounds like a good thing.
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Response to yeoman6987 (Reply #34)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 10:13 PM
Nuclear Unicorn (19,497 posts)
53. You and about 45 others according to his boasts. Frankly, I'm surprised he saw the OP. I was
certain I was one of the 46.
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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #53)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 10:34 PM
pinboy3niner (53,339 posts)
56. ...
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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #53)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 11:15 PM
7962 (11,841 posts)
64. laughing so hard right now......
Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #53)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 11:25 PM
yeoman6987 (14,449 posts)
68. Lol. Well their loss. Have a great weekend!
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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #53)
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 12:45 AM
davidpdx (22,000 posts)
118. Same here
Didn't see it. Given the description of what was posted up thread, I'm glad for that.
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Response to KamaAina (Reply #11)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 08:17 PM
pocoloco (3,180 posts)
33. Marines are being taught "combat profiling" enabling them
to function in every country without knowing the native language, using a person's
action and movements to help determine the possible danger. Semper Fi for sure!! |
Response to pocoloco (Reply #33)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 05:47 PM
tblue37 (53,825 posts)
100. They were not Marines. nt
Response to KamaAina (Reply #11)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 08:42 PM
Snobblevitch (1,958 posts)
40. They profiled him.
Response to KamaAina (Reply #11)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 04:40 PM
GoneOffShore (16,453 posts)
93. They weren't Marines.
Read the BBC report and interview.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34023361 Nobody followed him onto the train. Don't know where CNN gets this stuff. |
Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 07:13 PM
Fred Sanders (23,946 posts)
12. The early reports were not sure it was a terrorist until his skin color and his religion were known.
Now for sure we all know!
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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #12)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 07:16 PM
cherokeeprogressive (24,853 posts)
14. Pat yourself on the back.
Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #12)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 07:16 PM
Nuclear Unicorn (19,497 posts)
15. You're such a putz
Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #15)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 07:26 PM
7962 (11,841 posts)
20. Just never stops does it?
Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #12)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 08:30 PM
GGJohn (9,951 posts)
35. I ask, Have you no shame sir?
Have you no shame at all?
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Response to GGJohn (Reply #35)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 09:21 PM
awoke_in_2003 (34,582 posts)
44. I may be wrong...
but I think the poster is saying what he said to point out the fact that, when white people do a shooting the media calls it mental illness, when a brown skinned person does it it is terrorism.
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Response to awoke_in_2003 (Reply #44)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 09:49 PM
GGJohn (9,951 posts)
48. You may be right, but given Fred's track record,
I doubt it.
He's free to clarify his remark, but he's got me on ignore, so I'll just have to by his past statements. |
Response to awoke_in_2003 (Reply #44)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 10:45 PM
Hassin Bin Sober (25,061 posts)
61. That's the way I read it.
Response to awoke_in_2003 (Reply #44)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 11:17 PM
7962 (11,841 posts)
66. Its also often called "white supremacist" or "anti government"
Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #12)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 09:54 PM
Yo_Mama (8,303 posts)
49. He was already known to the authorities, and I think the attack was the convincing item.
Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #12)
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 12:44 AM
Codeine (25,586 posts)
117. You never quit, do you?
Never miss a chance to be a cartoon.
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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #12)
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 01:01 AM
cherokeeprogressive (24,853 posts)
121. Wow... does this post make you look like an ASS, or what?
I'd say they didn't know he was a terrorist until he walked into the car with a fucking AK-47.
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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 07:20 PM
lpbk2713 (41,064 posts)
16. I have every confidence President Obama will ...
see that the fallen Marine will be well taken care of in every way possible. And he won't make a show of it like some others I could think of. |
Response to lpbk2713 (Reply #16)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 10:40 PM
philosslayer (3,076 posts)
59. President Obama won't have to worry about it
I can assure you the French will take care of that themselves.
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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 07:41 PM
Rozlee (2,529 posts)
23. Our police could take lessons from these Marines.
Two of them managed to subdue a dangerous armed suspect while it takes a dozen cops to bring down unarmed black folk in the US. My heart goes out to the injured Marine and I hope he pulls through.
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Response to Rozlee (Reply #23)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 08:41 PM
Snobblevitch (1,958 posts)
39. A U.S. cop would have shot the guy with the
Kalashnikov, with a better chance that neither of them would have received a critical wound.
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Response to Snobblevitch (Reply #39)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 09:27 PM
Rozlee (2,529 posts)
46. I would love to believe that but...
police officers in the US are trained to go for torso shots when firing at suspects. They aren't trained much in incapacitating shots, they are taught mostly in deadly force shootings. It's a sad fact of life here in the US that our law enforcement are taught to shoot to kill instead of shoot to disarm or render incapable.
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Response to Rozlee (Reply #46)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 11:26 PM
7962 (11,841 posts)
69. Do you know how hard it is to hit an arm or leg from a distance shot?
The objective is always to stop the threat. "Winging him" usually only happens in the movies or by accident.
Pistols lose accuracy quickly as distance increases. Sure, at 2 feet you could hit an extremity, but even then your 1st objective is to take down the other guy. Go to a gun range and try it out, its eye opening. Just a week ago I saw an old Bruce Willis movie called "Hostage". The bad guys are on a house balcony and using a pistol they shoot out the windows and one cop driving up the road headed TOWARD the house. Probably at least 75 yards from the screen view. And just about impossible in real life. But we see stuff like that a LOT in the movies. |
Response to 7962 (Reply #69)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 06:18 PM
Rozlee (2,529 posts)
102. A Bruce Willis movie? Are you serious?
To begin with, my comment wasn't about shooting at armed suspects. It was about needing to take down unarmed ones. Officers should be trained to shoot to disarm. If you say it's hard to do, maybe they should be trained to do it. US cops killed more people in March than UK cops killed in the entire 20th century. Only about over half of them were armed. Americans are being killed by cops for non-violent offenses and mere misdemeanors or no crimes at all. What's wrong with taking down an unarmed suspect without killing him? Or letting a running suspect go without shooting him in the back? In such a case, they can surely aim low and try for a non-torso shot or better, no shot at all.
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Response to Rozlee (Reply #102)
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 12:28 AM
Snobblevitch (1,958 posts)
114. Unarmed?
This guy had an AK and a handgun.9
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Response to Rozlee (Reply #46)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 12:13 AM
Snobblevitch (1,958 posts)
70. Huh?
What are you talking about? Are you serious?
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Response to Snobblevitch (Reply #70)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 06:20 PM
Rozlee (2,529 posts)
103. Damn serious. Haven't you been reading about Ferguson?
Do the names Tamir Rice strike a chord? Michael Brown? Walter Scott? What were they doing that merited kill shots?
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Response to Rozlee (Reply #103)
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 12:32 AM
Snobblevitch (1,958 posts)
115. What the fuck are you talking about?
What does an unarmed situation have to do with what happened on that train, other than the fact that the men who stopped the terrorist had no firearms.
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Response to Rozlee (Reply #46)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 12:16 AM
GGJohn (9,951 posts)
71. False.
Police officers are not trained to shoot to kill, they're trained to shoot until the threat is neutralized.
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Response to GGJohn (Reply #71)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 06:24 PM
Rozlee (2,529 posts)
105. What threat did Michael Brown, Tamir Rice and Walter Scott pose?
American police kill more of their own people in one year than Europeans have in the last hundred years. Almost half of them unarmed, many in the back as they're fleeing. A fleeing suspect does not pose a threat.
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Response to Rozlee (Reply #105)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:04 PM
GGJohn (9,951 posts)
112. What's that got to do with my post?
Again, police are not trained to shoot to kill, they're trained to shoot until the threat is neutralized.
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Response to GGJohn (Reply #112)
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 12:14 AM
Rozlee (2,529 posts)
113. And again, what kind of threat needed to be neutralized in a suspect that was running away?
Or in a child playing in a park? Or a man flagging down police for help? A black American suspect is three times more likely to be killed by police than a white one and is twice as likely to be unarmed. In San Francisco recently, a half dozen cops ganged up on a homeless one-legged man to handcuff him and immobilize him on the ground for several minutes. Unless he was an X-Man, I don't see why so many were needed to accomplish such a take down. Police should never shoot an unarmed suspect that's fleeing them. They should never shoot an unarmed suspect, period, unless he's attacking them and they know they can't subdue him with physical force.
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Response to Rozlee (Reply #113)
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 12:36 AM
Snobblevitch (1,958 posts)
116. What the fuck all does any if that have to do with the OP?
Response to Snobblevitch (Reply #116)
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 01:31 AM
Rozlee (2,529 posts)
122. *sigh*
Nothing. Just an observation.
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Response to Rozlee (Reply #113)
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 12:53 AM
GGJohn (9,951 posts)
120. What part of my post are you not understanding?
You said that police are trained to shoot to kill did you not?
I replied that police are not trained to kill, they're trained to shoot until the threat is neutralized. That is fact. |
Response to GGJohn (Reply #120)
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 01:43 AM
Rozlee (2,529 posts)
123. And I said many in the US kill even after the threat is neutralized and even when
there is no threat. There are very many good cops around and they risk their lives on the streets. But, unless you've been living on a deserted island, you're bound to have heard of the killings abounding in the US of unarmed black men by police and even white men. An East Indian man paralyzed for life because he didn't understand what was being said to him and kept walking away. He wasn't shot, but he was slammed to the ground and his back broken. A deaf old man shot when he didn't understand police and kept walking toward them, unarmed. A young unarmed man having a seizure was gunned down by police. They were neutralized, all right. The trouble was, they never posed a threat.
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Response to Rozlee (Reply #123)
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 09:00 AM
GGJohn (9,951 posts)
124. That has zero to do with the training they receive in the academy,
during their training, they're taught to shoot until the threat is neutralized, not trained to shoot to kill.
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Response to GGJohn (Reply #124)
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 04:02 PM
Rozlee (2,529 posts)
125. Semantics.
They're trained to shoot center-mass, where the most vital organs are. That's neutralizing alright.
www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/12/police-gun-shooting-training-ferguson/383681/ www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/21/police-shoot-kill-taser-force-experts-law As the latter article states, police lobbyists have fought to keep legislation from being introduced that will introduce training for less than lethal force or minimum force. All police carry at least one other weapon besides a gun, i.e. stun gun, baton, etc. To throw you a bone, an ex-police officer does play semantics with his training on neutralizing vs. killing. It's an interesting exercise as he understands there is no difference between the two. www.policeone.com/use-of-force/articles/3468112-Shooting-center-mass-Shooting-to-kill-or-to-stop/ |
Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 07:49 PM
sarisataka (14,153 posts)
25. Extreme bravery
there must be an echo in France-
Come on, you sons of bitches! Do you want to live forever? GySgt. Daniel J. "Dan" Daly, USMC near Lucy-`le-Bocage as he led the 5th Marines' attack into Belleau Wood, 6 June 1918 Best wishes to the wounded Marine and other victims ![]() |
Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 08:14 PM
spanone (131,039 posts)
32. K&R...
Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 08:38 PM
roscoeroscoe (1,328 posts)
37. Oo-rah!
Way to go Marines
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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 08:50 PM
LiberalEsto (22,845 posts)
41. Way to go, USAF andf National Guard!
Last edited Sat Aug 22, 2015, 04:57 PM - Edit history (1) ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() The courage of the Marines who tackled this gunman while unarmed themselves, brought him down and tied him up, preventing possibly hundreds of casualties -- it's just phenomenal. |
Response to LiberalEsto (Reply #41)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 04:43 PM
GoneOffShore (16,453 posts)
96. No Marines were involved
Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 09:13 PM
still_one (84,202 posts)
43. bravo. this should LBN. A massacre was prevented thanks to the Marines
Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 09:27 PM
ericson00 (2,707 posts)
45. USA! USA! USA!
n/t
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Response to ericson00 (Reply #45)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 12:32 AM
Snobblevitch (1,958 posts)
72. Do I detect sarcasm,
or are you seriously mocking the marines involved?
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Response to Snobblevitch (Reply #72)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 09:21 AM
ericson00 (2,707 posts)
81. dead serious. Nothing wrong with chanting our country's great name
Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 10:04 PM
Syzygy321 (583 posts)
51. I love this story,
but remain puzzled as to why marines on leave decided to follow this guy onto a train. ??
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Response to Syzygy321 (Reply #51)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 10:21 PM
Gigabear (58 posts)
54. My understanding is that they were already on the train
when they noticed him.
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Response to Gigabear (Reply #54)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 10:42 PM
Syzygy321 (583 posts)
60. That would make more sense! Thanks. NT
Response to Syzygy321 (Reply #51)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 12:37 AM
Snobblevitch (1,958 posts)
73. My understanding is that they saw the perp somewhere
on or near the train platform and followed him onto the train.
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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 10:27 PM
leanforward (1,046 posts)
55. Unarmed marines
In a sense these marines were not unarmed. These gentlemen have earned some French respect. I'm waiting to hear their side of what happened. These guys stopped some unbelievable carnage. I hope and pray that the wounded marine will be okay. I know in these matters resources are available without question. The NATO establishment is present as are others, to numerous to mention. I would say there is a special mission available for the gentlemen when needed. Likewise, I hope they keep the two members of the brotherhood together, until the family reunion.
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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)
Fri Aug 21, 2015, 10:50 PM
DFW (47,698 posts)
62. I take that train all the time
It's called a Thalys. It goes from Brussels to Paris in 80 minutes, and made the air route practically obsolete. The aisles are extremely narrow. Someone bringing a bag big enough for a Kalashnikov into the toilet would cause more than a few people to wonder why. No one needs THAT much extra toilet paper.
The disturbing (but sadly not surprising) fact is that the Moroccan was known to security services, and Belgian security services patrol the train platforms for exactly this kind of guy. Or, at least, that's what they pretend to be doing. |
Response to DFW (Reply #62)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 05:57 PM
jtuck004 (15,882 posts)
101. What would cause 3 presumably strange to this area to start following a stranger, and
then onto the train? He must have looked different from everyone else, and they were looking for...?
They must have been catching that train anyway, or does everyone carry tickets around with them? |
Response to jtuck004 (Reply #101)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 08:32 PM
DFW (47,698 posts)
109. That is a very crowded train
I try to get reservations a week in advance and half the time it is already full.
Probably pure dumb luck. Brussels-Paris is 80 minutes. Sometimes people go down there for dinner and come back up to Brussels just because Paris hotels are so goddamned expensive. |
Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 12:38 AM
Xipe Totec (43,539 posts)
74. Semper Fucking A! nt
Response to Xipe Totec (Reply #74)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 04:43 PM
GoneOffShore (16,453 posts)
95. Is that the new Air Force motto?
Because the three guys involved were an Air Force guy, a National Guardsman and some Brit guy not in any branch of the US armed forces.
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Response to GoneOffShore (Reply #95)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 04:47 PM
Xipe Totec (43,539 posts)
97. Read the original post without edits. You'll see they were originally identified as Marines
And don't get too snooty, mr Johnny come lately.
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Response to Xipe Totec (Reply #97)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 04:53 PM
GoneOffShore (16,453 posts)
98. Been posting this for the last six hours.
Saw the original when it came out over here on both France24 and BBC.
I'm presently in Bordeaux and saw the news reports that identified the Americans as a National Guardsman and a member of the Air Force. |
Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 05:40 AM
Warren DeMontague (80,708 posts)
76. Wow. (edited to add: Not Marines, one Air Force one Oregon National Guard)
http://www.oregonlive.com/today/index.ssf/2015/08/oregon_national_guard_member_h.html
Here's wishing a full recovery to the guy who was hurt, later stories have him as attacked with a box cutter but not in critical condition, so that's good. Well done, gentlemen. Well done. ![]() |
Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 07:37 AM
muriel_volestrangler (97,927 posts)
77. Not sure where the 'toilet' story came from - he shot, and then the 2 decided to rush him
and their (civilian) friend followed.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34023361 It seems he shot at least once with a handgun, from which the magazine fell out at some stage; his rifle malfunctioned, and he couldn't fix it (not sure if he got any shots out of it). |
Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #77)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 02:10 PM
DFW (47,698 posts)
89. The Thalys trains are very narrow and very crowded
There's no way a passenger could comfortably take a gun out of a bag in the passenger compartment without having to do contortions and give people time to see what he's doing and rush him. However, if he takes a bulky bag into the toilet (and they are small enough to give anyone claustrophobia), he'll have the time to assemble his rifle, though not with much room. The doors are not thick, and if someone is familiar with this kind of firearm, the sounds of one being assembled can be heard over the sound of the train's wheels.
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Response to DFW (Reply #89)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 02:21 PM
muriel_volestrangler (97,927 posts)
90. See #79 - it now seems it was another who struggled with him first
and that was when the gun went off.
A Frenchman who has not been identified was the first person to discover the attacker in the train restroom -- with a Kalashnikov slung over his shoulder, according to French Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve.
He "courageously tried to tackle him before the attacker fired several shots," he added. http://www.expatica.com/fr/news/country-news/Five-who-foiled-an-attack-on-a-European-train_504868.html After that, the Americans tackled him. |
Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #77)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 06:37 PM
cascadiance (19,537 posts)
106. KGW looks to now have some video he shot in the train...
http://www.kgw.com/videos/news/local/2015/08/21/32173791/
A great act by a fellow Oregonian! Thanks so much sir for saving lives, and helping rebuild our country's image too at the same time! |
Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 08:19 AM
drray23 (6,646 posts)
79. it is now being reported by the french media
that what happened is a french passenger first came faced with the terrorist as the guy was exiting the toilets with his weapon. The french civilian the struggled with the gunman attempting to disarm him which led to the shots fired. The two US servicemen saw that and immediatly jumped in to tackle and take out the guy. All three are being hailed as heroes.
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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 09:28 AM
Waiting For Everyman (9,385 posts)
82. Very brave, fast thinking and acting!
So glad they were there, and I hope the injured man makes a full recovery.
![]() ![]() ![]() |
Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 12:29 PM
Glassunion (10,201 posts)
83. K&R
Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 01:22 PM
cwydro (46,519 posts)
86. They were not Marines.
You should at least edit your OP.
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Response to cwydro (Reply #86)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 01:35 PM
Glassunion (10,201 posts)
87. In the news report linked, they were Marines.
Funny how the media works. First they report bullshit, or rumor, or opinion, then a few days later they finally get their story straight.
We know now (a day later) that they may not have been Marines. Who knows tomorrow they may be something else. But the author of the OP was going with what information was available to her at the time. |
Response to Glassunion (Reply #87)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 01:55 PM
cwydro (46,519 posts)
88. And often OPs edit as new info becomes available.
They were not Marines.
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Response to cwydro (Reply #88)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 04:14 PM
Nuclear Unicorn (19,497 posts)
91. I have added an update
Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #91)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 05:41 PM
cwydro (46,519 posts)
99. I was in the Air Force long ago.
Just gotta stick up for my branch here, ya know?
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Response to cwydro (Reply #99)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 06:45 PM
sarisataka (14,153 posts)
107. And it's good to see
Y'all are finally paying attention
![]() Doesn't matter if it is a Zoomie, Jarhead or Jody-back-on-the-block, taking on an armed attacker bare-handed is something special. ![]() |
Response to sarisataka (Reply #107)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 06:47 PM
cwydro (46,519 posts)
108. Hell to the yeah. nt
Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 06:21 PM
hollowdweller (4,229 posts)
104. Ain't that some shit? Take a vacation from Afghanistan and wind up having to deal with another dick
with an AK47 trying to kill you. |
Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 08:49 PM
1939 (1,683 posts)
110. I hope they made his takedown very, very painful (like loss of his tackle) NT
Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 09:12 PM
betsuni (19,888 posts)
111. Someone I know just wrote that she thought this was a false flag thing or a "plant"
and I'm really angry. Does anyone have a suggestion as to what to say that will shut that down? Haven't seen any conspiracy theories about this yet, but they must be out there.
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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Original post)
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 12:51 AM
davidpdx (22,000 posts)
119. As an American and Oregonian I am proud of these guys
They used their intuition and training and jumped into action turning what could have been a blood bath with mass casualties into a minor shooting.
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