General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIf North Korea Declares An All Out War On South ....
what will the U.S. do? Will we get involved?
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)brooklynite
(94,534 posts)Any more than they did the last hundred times they threatened to.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)NeoGreen
(4,031 posts)...since we have had "troops" on the ground and in country since the 50's.
Unless I missed some major redeployment in the last 20 years.
GP6971
(31,146 posts)In fact, US forces are deploying a rotational battalion every 9 months.
NeoGreen
(4,031 posts)...for a 2nd tour after 1987, my "intel" is a bit dated.
I guess it is still the forgotten war.
GP6971
(31,146 posts)Where were you in 87? I was always on extended TDY and based out Of Camp Humphries.
...554 CESHR, Red Horse
Combat Engineers at Osan
all of 87, Jan 87 to Jan 88
many good memories
GP6971
(31,146 posts)And the best street vendors for Yaki Mondu
NeoGreen
(4,031 posts)...I forgot about the dumplings....
after a late night of drinking oversize Crowns
buying a greasy bag on the walk back to the dorm....
now i have to break out the photos
NeoGreen
(4,031 posts)...with their 9 tv screens playing mtv videos...
...Paul Simon, "You can call me Al!"
....memories
GP6971
(31,146 posts)American rock and roll. Painful at times. I travel to Korea often and they are actually very good now.
And the shared bowl drinks at the clubs....can't remember the name though.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)It was comical.
GP6971
(31,146 posts)but if anything like Korea, they're probably similar.
After 2 tours in Vietnam, I came home for a year, then was deployed to S. Korea in 71, and the Korean bands trying to copy American rock and roll was just as bad as in Vietnam.
GP6971
(31,146 posts)that the slicky boys stole the radios while you were listening to it. LOL!
Yep, all you had to do was blink your eyes, and poof, your shit was long gone, same in Vietnam.
GP6971
(31,146 posts)But I thought Crown and OB were poor, with OB just over Crown.
Today, there is Cass which is really good.
GP6971
(31,146 posts)By treaty we are obligated to.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)In the event of war, command of the military of the ROK goes directly to the US.
There are transitional plans to phase that out over time, but it's been that way a long time.
GP6971
(31,146 posts)ROK and US forces have been commanded by the USA. Plans have been in the works to turn command over to the ROKs, but like anything else, it keeps getting delayed.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)automatically involved.
GP6971
(31,146 posts)Plus artillery and aid defense units based out of Camps Casy and Hovey
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Last edited Fri Aug 21, 2015, 10:48 PM - Edit history (1)
cut Kim Jong Cartman off at the knees so fast it would make the world's collective head spin. The Chinese want stability, not war, even with their current economic ups and downs.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)They don't want that interrupted and the whole region thrown into turmoil because of a megalomaniac.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)is an excellent insurance policy from the South Korean viewpoint. And a very sound judgement.
PJMcK
(22,035 posts)Gman
(24,780 posts)They must be running short on food again or something.
GOLGO 13
(1,681 posts)We have US military bases in SK. They attack her then they've attacked us. China better yank the leash on their little psycho.
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)Not admitted but obviously there. Pyongyang will be on fire.
GP6971
(31,146 posts)North Korea has over 7,000 tubes (artillery, rockets) that can hit Seoul. They only need about 30 minutes to cause havoc in Seoul.
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)And what percentage of the NK are HARTS?
GP6971
(31,146 posts)They have access to US nukes, but under US command and control.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)That is under an agreement with the US.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)we have 30,000+ troops stationed there, including on the DMZ.
In the event of an all out invasion by the Norks, you can bet the farm that massive US assets would be deployed against the Norks with devastating results.
When I was stationed in S. Korea as an attack helo pilot, we were frequently on high alert for any Nork aggression, it was tense as hell, a lot of simulated combat sorties.
nt/
Lancero
(3,003 posts)It's wishful thinking that we'd be smart enough to pull our people back from SK before SHTF, but the MIC wants them there in the off-chance that NK does start a war since that'd be justification for us to enter.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)We've had a mutual defense treaty with them since the 50's.
What? You think we should just cut and run and abandon our ally in the face of Nork aggression?
Lancero
(3,003 posts)Which, btw, means that we technically broke the armistice?
Someone profited off of this, I guarantee it.
We broke the agreement because we had 'intel' that said someone's been giving N. Korea new weapons, though we couldn't actually point out specifics. Hey, guess what other war we got into as a result of 'intel' saying a nation had weapons that it actually didn't?
A intresting article on the subject - http://journal-neo.org/2013/06/10/the-korean-war-and-the-peace-treaty-issue/
GP6971
(31,146 posts)Thanks in advance.
Lancero
(3,003 posts)For a quick look, here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Armistice_Agreement#United_States_abrogation_of_paragraph_13.28d.29
For a more longer look, this - http://www.japanfocus.org/-Lee-Jae_Bong/3053/article.html
...Although the Pentagon acknowledged that evidence to back up raw intelligence reports on the physical existence of nuclear weapons or its delivery systems in North Korea did not exist, it contended that new weapons and equipment had been introduced after the ceasefire and that it might not be long before delivery systems for nuclear weapons entered the communist nation.
Nevertheless, at a June 1956 meeting of the Military Armistice Commission at Panmunjom, the U.S.F.K. and UNC issued a statement detailing 'alleged' North Korean violations of paragraph 13(d) of the armistice agreement and indicating that the UNC would no longer consider itself bound by that paragraph until such time as the relative military balance has been restored and North Korea has demonstrated its willingness to comply with the terms of the armistice. On the heels of the expulsion of the NNSC inspection teams in June 1956, the U.S. had abrogated the very clause that prevented it from deploying nuclear weapons in South Korea.
The NNSC was the group meant to monitor both sides to ensure no new weapons were introduced. The UNC alledged that NK had new weapons and pretty much forced out their monitor teams, telling them to go and look into N. Korea harder because they are hiding new toys somewhere. Well, guess what we did right after that?
Yep. Christmas time, new toys!
The NNSC later pulled out of NK since they were not allowed back in to monitor SK, realizing that the only reason they weren't let back in was because one side was playing dirty - Since one side had no intention of staying to the agreements, they felt no need to hold the other side to them pretty much.
As for the 'They had new weapons in in early 1956..." comment, well...
We were trying to get new weapons in at the same time, or even before.
Combine this with the unproven allegations made against NK, that we used to justify ignoring the armstice, well... If it talks like a duck and walks like a duck...
Appreciate it!
Lancero
(3,003 posts)The US was worried about them getting new hardware, replacement's were a secondary concern - Though, under the agreement replacements would have been allowed.
The only craft that entered operation around that timeframe was the Mig-17 - In 1952, though they were in such limited numbers that they never played a part.
The second aircraft entering operation around then was the Shenyang J-5, a Chinese knockoff of the Mig-17, and it entered service in July 1956, which was after the date the US said that NK supposedly recieved 'new jets'.
It's entirely possible that the 'new jets' (And speaking of the allegations lacking specifics, notice how they never gave a model number?) N. Korea recieved were Mig-15's, the US's reasoning for putting new weapons into SK was to ensure that the current hardware they had wouldn't be rendered obsolete. So given the timing, the Mig-15 is the most likely jet for N. Korea to have received if they actually received hardware in violation of the armistice. But here's the funniest thing about that - Even if N. Korea violated the armstice and recieved a new shipment of Mig-15's, it wouldn't have done ANYTHING to render our current hardware in S. Korea as obsolete - We had F-86's in SK at that time, and they played apart in the Korean war fighting against the Mig-15s and they kicked the absolute shit out of them. Seriously, kill ratio pushed at the time? 792 Mig-15 kills to 78 F-86 losses. Many people have since revised the kill numbers, but at this time period we were running with 792 to 78, which was a drastic count to our favor.
So, even if NK did violate the agreement, our entire reasoning behind introducing nuclear weapons was completely bogus.
Still though, if that agreement was violated and we had proof of it we would have shown it. But we never had anything to show, just allegations that they recieved new weapons.
...Come to think of it, didn't we make some other allegations - unproven and later shown to be false - relating to weapons in a more recent war?
onehandle
(51,122 posts)It's China's fault we are even involved. They keep NK alive to cost us billions.
But if it actually came to war, China would cut them off at the ankles.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)joshcryer
(62,270 posts)If anything happens China takes over NK and makes it a client state (while it sort of is now they don't have control over the government). They need that buffer between South Korea and China's borders. The whole Iron Curtain concept (which itself is an odious concept to be sure). The US would get involved in so much as to keep the original border lines in place.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)It costs us billions to stay in South Korea, but I think China is A) already sick of North Korean refugees (they're treated like illegal immigrants because China doesn't want ANYBODY moving there on a permanent basis), B) has no idea what to do with the 25 million people living in that resource-poor shithole of a country, and C) keeps involving themselves in NK more out of a sense of obligation than anything else. China is perfectly aware that Mao and Stalin created that regime and I think the Chinese are willing to "own" their part of the responsibility.
mathematic
(1,439 posts)If the invaded country was France would your answer change? Why or why not?
roamer65
(36,745 posts)No peace treaty was ever signed, so it would just go from a "cold" war to a "hot" one.
The Chinese are the wildcard in it. Will they egg NK to reignite the conflict or whack them down hard?
GP6971
(31,146 posts)If anything, they try to restrain them. They have too much to lose economically.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)their insurance policy. The Chinese think the Kims are just as batshit as the rest of the world.
GP6971
(31,146 posts)But Asia in general and the US.
Jeneral2885
(1,354 posts)will hail the DPRK has his next friend.
GP6971
(31,146 posts)Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)Technically we are still at war with NK. We also have treaties with Sk and Japan that must be honored. We are obligated to come to their defense.
GP6971
(31,146 posts)we'll know.
Me personally, NK will fire some artillery and rockets at the South's loudspeakers, the south will retaliate and we'll be bak to normal.
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)South Korea has to yet again put up with their threats. The international community pays the extortion threat off with food and aid. Rinse and repeat.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)davidpdx
(22,000 posts)Tensions between the two nations rise from time to time and make it look worse than it actually is.
Second, I want to clear up some misstatements that were made in the thread:
1) The US has 28,500 troops
2) North Korea DOES NOT have nuclear weapons
3) The US still has command and control (as was mentioned down thread by GP6971) and that it had been in the works to turn over command and control to South Korea, but they have repeatedly asked to postpone it.
Source: I live in South Korea and am 26 km from the DMZ.
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)The Korean War never officially ended. It's only a cease-fire in place.
And it won't end anytime soon...at least not until the Kim family is gone. The North has an obsession in believing the South belongs to them and the government is only being propped up by the US. They are not going to agree to any peace treaty that allows the South to remain intact.
And that's why we are at an impasse.
If the North does try to invade the South, they are in violation of the cease-fire and we are in war again.
Lancero
(3,003 posts)When they expelled the NNSC inspectors from SK.
A lot of things will have to happen before this ends, but it's going to have to involve more then just the removal of the Kim family. The US - if we really do desire peace - is going to have to own up for what it did in the past.
eridani
(51,907 posts)Send us more fuel and rice, or else!
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Reducing a country of 25 million Koreans to a state of abject, grinding permanent poverty, deprivation and starvation is a genuine accomplishment of some kind that borders on the impossible. Notable but not a good one.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)It has a real Guns of August feel to it. A sneeze could set the whole thing off.
And I know what I'm talking about. I've watched the trends and have studied the history.
Sid
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)Ex Lurker
(3,813 posts)Maybe a coincidental accident, but I would note that there are a lot of NK agents in Japan. Mobsters affiliated with the North control the pachinko parlors, which are a significant source of hard currency for them.
@kozenipon 6m6 minutes ago
The U.S. military facility in Sagamihara, Kanagawa, Japan has an explosion.