Well done. CNN (and DU) got their riot porn.

[Robb]

Ratings are up at both sites, because blood sells. As usual. The smallest segment of the protests -- the idiots who were looking for trouble, and happily for them and CNN, found it -- took over all coverage. As usual.

The scariest looking ones are getting their pictures in every newspaper. Repubs get on every channel and sing the praises of the most violent of police. Paulites get tons of ink to rail against the evils of the Obama government and its collaboration with the New World Order. As. Usual.

Meanwhile, precisely zero TV time has been spent on why, perhaps, the majority of the protesters were there. Almost as little as why NATO leaders were there -- hello, missile defense? Putin not even showing up? Any of this sound important?

I know, those violence-chasing nutcases don't represent the majority of the protesters. And I know, they were probably cops or CIA spies themselves. And I know, insert popular movie reference of choice here -- something from "V for Vendetta," or perhaps the Star Wars bit about "the more you tighten your grip, the more star systems will slip through your fingers." Maybe throw in some Batman for the libertarians. Because nothing says "take me seriously" quite like a Batman t-shirt.

I'll say this: if a handful of idiots derailed every party I threw, and I had no way to keep them away, I'd change the way I threw parties.

CNN thanks you. Oh, and of course the single biggest market for advertising on news websites, the financial sector? The banksters thank you, too.

Cue the "how dare you" and "who's side are you on?" responses from the deep thinkers out there. But if you're not sick of your issues being marginalized by rock-throwers, you're not paying attention.

[nobodyspecial]

1. Excellent post

But, as you know, you're now a target. Apparently, we are not allowed nuanced thinking. Either you're with the protesters or you are the enemy.

I will say that local news did give good coverage of the vets tossing their medals back. That should have been the story and would have made average viewers think. Much harder to dismiss vets than disruptors.

[Robb]

3. That was an awesome story, and should've been Page 1 everywhere.

[Skidmore]

2. You won't get any complaints from me.

We were discussing something along these lines at breakfast this morning in this household. Remembering the civil rights era protests and the protests of Gandhi here. When injury was done it was done to peaceful protesters. I don't make the assumption that all of these people who end up trashing places at these G8 type summits are police placed provocateurs.

[TBF]

4. Those damned rock throwers

[Robb]

5. That's actually a great illustration of my point.

No rock-throwers at UC Davis. Police overdo things, badly, on actual peaceful demonstration. World cares.

Compare and contrast.

[Zorra]

7. Ever been attacked by the police at a protest?

Ever seen the police attack someone at a protest?

You can't control everyone at a protest. It just can't possibly be done.

Especially after they are attacked by the police.

And do you really believe that the PTB wouldn't stage violence for their own purposes?

[Robb]

9. Which protester in the UC Davis picture is out of control?

[randome]

11. The PTB don't give a shit about protesters.

Do you really think they are quaking in their boots as they sip margaritas on the beach?

A few thousand protesters in a city they don't even like to visit? Not on their radar.

[TBF]

20. TPTB don't have to quake in their boots because

they've paid plenty of folks to take care of their problems for them. And yes the police chief in Chicago is going to pay attention - he knows the president is from his town and his job is on the line if things get out of control.

[Zorra]

6. Little sympathy for 84-year-old woman pepper sprayed at Occupy protest

[link:http://mynorthwest.com/284/579417/Little-sympathy-for-84yearold-woman-pepper-sprayed-at-Occupy-protest|Little sympathy for 84-year-old woman pepper sprayed at Occupy protest
]
"I'm not in favor of pepper spraying an 84-year-old woman, but why are you there and not obeying police orders if you don't want to be pepper sprayed?" asked 97.3 KIRO FM host Dave Ross. "Because they will do that. We've learned that, we've known that since at least 1999 and WTO."


See? You have allies in the media.

Thanks for you concern.

Third Way: Fresh Thinking

not.

[randome]

8. I doubt anyone at DU -maybe even CNN- takes delight in seeing an 84 year old woman pepper-sprayed.

That is a ludicrous comparison.

Yes, the police sometimes act barbarically. And sometimes so do protesters. Witness the 3 who were arrested in Chicago.

I think the point that was being made is that, once again, the output from Chicago is 'Protesters versus Police', not 'NATO is evil'.

[Zorra]

63. I believe that you misunderstood. I'm just not seeing sympathy for innocent

Last edited Mon May 21, 2012, 02:03 PM - Edit history (2)

protesters being bludgeoned by out of control cops. Not seeing sympathy for the many concerned, innocent people arrested for expressing their frustration at being controlled by an unelected 1% of the population, etc.

Not seeing any concern that the cops are beating up innocent people. Not saying that people here are being delighted at the abuse of protesters by the police.

The concern seems to be that the MSM is making protesters/Occupy look bad. And/or possibly, that, because of this, the protests may be detrimental to Democrats, even though the Democratic Party has nothing to do with the protests.

That's part of my point.

Also, OP seems to be saying that we are going about things the wrong way, and that we need to change our methods.

However, in reality, the output from MSM has long been the spoken or unspoken meme that "liberals/liberal protesters are evil". This was made very obvious during the Bush regime in particular, and this is still commonly occurring today.

The thing is, we can't prevent the PTB from planting agents provocateurs, we can't control a few violent mentally unstable people, and we can't control generally peaceful protesters who instinctively react in self defense when police attack them with the unwarranted malicious intent of causing them bodily harm.

And we certainly, obviously, have no control over the MSM.

The MSM is owned by the 1% PTB, and will do what they are told to do: paint us as evil no matter what method of direct action we employ, (except voting), and we are no longer confident that voting is effective as a significant agent of change, especially as a vehicle to use for overthrowing the plutarchy.

Singing Kumbaya might get some good local press, but it won't do jack to further the goal of spreading awareness of the injustice and inequality in this system imposed upon us by the 1%.

There is a long history here of certain posters who repeatedly admonish protesters and tell them to get back in line and try to effect change through methods controlled by the 1%. Very often, these posters support the 1% version of laissez faire capitalism as espoused by the Third Way party.

A great many of us don't agree with Third Way ideology and practice. We have been forced to go outside the box. Both literally and figuratively; there are only a limited number and type of changes that can be brought about through the ballot box.

Removal of the 1% plutarchs from power is not among these changes that can be accomplished through the electoral process. We have been forced to employ whatever non-violent direct actions that we see as necessary to establish a genuine egalitarian democracy that recognizes and serves the well being of people, and not the profit and pleasure of the authoritarian few, as the sole reason for any system of governance.

The hope of a secure and livable world lies with disciplined nonconformists who are dedicated to justice, peace and brotherhood.

---Martin Luther King Jr.,

I submit that an individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for the law.

--Martin Luther King Jr.

[randome]

68. Since OWS started, I have advocated more mass protests.

I thought taking over public parks was pointless and that may be why some call me a RW troll.

More protests. If I could suggest more to OWS, it would be to clarify the message. I know some say NATO is part of the entire income inequality thing but most people don't associate the two.

I would prefer to see income inequality be front and center all the time. But that's just me.

[Zorra]

74. Fair enough.

I disagree about Occupying parks.

It was effective, largely because it was unique. It totally served our purpose, and is still serving our purpose in some places.

It raised collective awareness to a level that opened the door for some other forms of direct action to be effective.

A landslide can't happen without the right conditions and catalyst.

[mopinko]

10. .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002710626

[EFerrari]

12. LOL. Why don't you give a rundown of the CNN coverage, Robb,

for those of us who watch actual journalists and not corporate whoredom.

[Robb]

19. Oh, I didn't realize we were just protesting to the choir now.

Brilliant strategy. I shall call it the Conquered Bubble, write a book and make a mint.

[EFerrari]

27. Seriously, refusing to participate in propaganda is protesting to the choir?

Lmao.

Here, CNN missed this classic I don't doubt.

[sabrina 1]

77. So you oppose OWS. That's fine, you don't have to support it.

Just be honest about it though. Sorry the protesters interfered with the MSM's usual daily fare, like which movie star got in trouble over the weekend or whatever they cover these days. I wouldn't know, I don't use the MSM for actual news.

But it's good to know, thank you for that, that they at least mentioned the protests. Usually they ignore them. As they did the war protests, remember?

You seem upset, but I'm not sure what it is you are upset about. Which is why, and I could be wrong, I assume you oppose OWS. It was a huge success, all over the world, so forgive those who don't share your angst. Looks like World Leaders are getting the people's message also. People power actually does work.

[pinboy3niner]

13. Bullshit

CNN actually did a good job reporting on the protests. Don Lemon was visibly disturbed seeing the footage of the police response with batons. He emphasized that the people have a right to protest. Said that the police attacking protesters with batons appeared to be unprovoked, and asked, "Does anybody deserve this?"

Lemon was hardly following your imagined script--and if anyone is adhering to an agenda, it seems that that would be you.

[Cali_Democrat]

65. +1000

[coalition_unwilling]

14. A typical rock thrower from yesterday's protests:

************

Oops, sorry, I meant 'fist thrower'.

[randome]

16. Damn! How does he get those letters to stand up so well?

Again, posting examples of police behaving abominably -which this photo does not prove, by the way- does not, in any way, invalidate the thousands of life-risking deeds police do each and every day.

Are you ashamed of those deeds, too?

For you to want to toss in the towel on all the things you mentioned just because police and protesters had a scuffle, is ridiculous.

What about the protester who threw the bucket at police? What about the 3 who were arrested for plotting a Molotov cocktail party?

[pinboy3niner]

23. Damn! How do you manage to keep posting your bullshit here?

"You can't explain that!"
--Bill O'Reilly

[randome]

28. Asking questions is 'bullshit', is it?

I suppose I manage it by, you know, forging a path from my critical thinking skills to my fingers and to my keyboard and, voila! You have another brilliant post by ME!

[rhett o rick]

37. A trouble maker can only make trouble if you fall for the schtick. If this poster

bothers you, put him on ignore. If you get banned, he wins.

[pinboy3niner]

53. I don't put anyone on Ignore

And what we're dealing with here is not simply a 'troublemaker,' but an actual RW troll who has been disrupting our discussions here for some time.

My over-the-top comment is obviously intentionally provocative, but I'm counting on a jury of our peers being to be able to see behind the curtain to what is really going on here. I do have some faith in my felow and sister members.

[rhett o rick]

59. I also dont put people on ignore, unless I cant help myself but fall into their trap.

There are a number of people in here that are deliberately provocative. I believe their goal is disruption. But they cant succeed unless we react to them. I appreciate your motives but believe your tactics are counter-productive.

Good luck, and dont get yourself banned, or they win.

By the way, I was on a jury and voted to hide one of your "intentionally provocative" responses to this poster. The vote was 3 to 3 with those that wanted to hide it agreeing with your motives but not your tactic. We have rules and if we dont follow them we will have chaos, again what the disruptor is seeking. Besides, leaving the post to stand will not accomplish your goal.

The three jurors that voted to keep your post, didnt leave comments. The jury system wont work if we allow sentiments to cloud our judgement.

[randome]

43. My 'history' predates yours by several years.

I do not alert on anyone and I do not Ignore anyone. You cannot provoke me because I am invulnerable to insults.

I don't care about being right or wrong. I just want to see things as they truly are.

The police can behave barbarically at times. But they also risk their lives thousands of times every day. That's my main point.

[patrice]

51. .

But, is it okay to call people trolls here now?

Will you please consider an appropriate synonym? I would like your post to stand.

Around the environmental struggles, I developed a preference for referring to "confusionists".

[rhett o rick]

34. Yes, asking questions is a method of stirring up trouble. Instead of

committing to a stand, some trouble makers (present company excepted, of course) use questions to stir up trouble.

FoxedUp News for example do it all the time: "Is Obama a Muslim?", "Did Obama worship Saul Alinsky?". "Why would police just beat up people for fun?" When they have no proof, they just ask questions. I see that a lot here in DU.
Yes, asking questions can be bullshit. Not in your case, of course.

[randome]

39. I believe I'm on cw's 'List' anyways, so he's probably not reading me.

Of course questions can be weighted and nuanced in such a way as to provoke the 'proper' response.

But my question was simply, do we acknowledge the thousands of life-risking deeds that police do every day? Acknowledge the wrong they did in Chicago but also acknowledge the good.

With as many people as were involved in Chicago's protest, it is truly remarkable that more weren't injured.

It would be ideal if NO ONE was injured but human beings are an unpredictable lot.

[rhett o rick]

49. So when we judge a wife beater, we must consider all the nice things he has

done to temper our response. Bullcrap. Just because most police are good doesnt lessen the horrible treatment unnecessarily meted out by the psycho's wearing blue.

[randome]

55. Eh. Using one person as an example is not the same as using an entire group.

There are 581,888 police departments in this country. 301,088 in metropolitan areas. Over 800,000 officers.

To say that they are all violent or paid thugs of some nebulous corporatocracy is, I think, an over-reach.

On edit: I realize you weren't saying that, by the way. But some want to conflate a few scuffles with police in Chicago this weekend as a harbinger of the End Times. I think they showed remarkable restraint doing their job. Except for a few -judging from the videos, they were more intent on beating someone than in pushing them back but then I have never been in a volatile situations where I am trying to hold back a mass of people who outnumber me and my confederates by a thousand to one.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

69. Did you say you were a police officer?

That's not an accusation. I know there are a few who post here. There was one I had a conversation with who was pretty fair in his assessments of OWS and the police.

[randome]

73. No, I'm not. Never been one.

I once worked for the Social Security Administration. So I was on the government payroll at one time!

[sabrina 1]

78. Why is it remarkable that more peaceful protesters were not injured? In a democracy

where the people have a right to, not only exercise their 1st Amendment rights, they also have a right to be protected from injury while doing so, by the police, who swear an oath to that effect.

At every single peaceful protest however, the police are NOT there to protect the rights of American citizens, they are to attack them and do so, every single time, armed to the teeth, as if they were going to war against an armed insurgency.

Can you eg, show one instance of the police protecting protesters, from eg, cars ramming into crowds, at least three times so far with no arrests or assistance to the injured by the cops.

Surely there must be some instances of the police, there have been thousands of them a virtual army at every protest, protecting the people they swear to 'protect and serve'? I have never seen a cop help eg, an elderly person, or a person in a wheelchair suffering the effects of their tear gas, get to somewhere safe. Protesters have saved lives by pulling such people to safety, but I have yet to see a cop do so.

Iow, their very presence at protests is to do the exact opposite of what they are charged with according to their job description, to protect those who pay their salaries.

[patrice]

41. This crosses the line for me and DAMAGES a valid point in doing so. If you want to make

that connection to sexual abuse, please try to bring some facts about fist-throwing and wife beating to the table, or at least observe that what you are doing is stating a significantly likely PROBABILITY, and ONLY a probability, for certain personality-types and how they go about solving problems. This is important, because by smearing innocent cops with these associations, you are doing the same sort of thing that you accuse them of, which you DO have the right to say, but it's just confusing to anyone who might be considering the validity of your point - and disregard for that confusion, i.e. low priority on the point itself apparently, for some other higher less denoted agenda, brings the WHOLE issue further into question. For many of us, we draw the conclusion that the chaos is of higher order priority than any attempt at problem solving and we'd have to wonder WHY you would run "away from the table" like that.

[coalition_unwilling]

44. OK, how about this one:

***************

Get the joke? "Beat the crowds"

On a serious note, I have seen studies that show the incidence of domestic spousal abuse is higher among law enforcement personnel than among the general populace. Sorry I can't find citations easily for this, but they are out there and from neutral academic sources.

I do apologize if my original post offended you.

[patrice]

48. **I** like! that one, because it is more useful. **I:I**, as in I can see the possible validity of

this point.

[gateley]

15. I just heard snippets from the news about "generally peaceful" and "only a few arrests" --

I was pleased to hear it reported that way.

[2pooped2pop]

17. I am an occupy supporter and I agree with u

First. i am on my cell and it will only let me see so far down the page as I write. So much is written without being seen by me as I go so please keep that in mind.

I was at the protest. It was of good size but not the largest I have seen. The police presense was overkill and ridiculous. The chanting was lack luster, but we had been in the hot sun for hours prior to the protest. It was all quite peaceful til the end where the protest did not seem to end quite where we expected. The end was barricaded with only one small almost single file opening in the barricade. People were a bit confused. I felt cornered and exited.

The huge police presence was already in place and they did seem to me to be preparing for something they already knew was happening, or going to happen shortly. I could not see any of what went on in that barricade.

on the way home I met one of the veterans for peace that was there. He was quite upset but quiet and controlled. He said he was right there. "There was blood everywhere. They stormed the police horses" he said. "what!" I said. "they attacked the police horses. They charged them" I had not even seen the police on horseback.

He went on to tell me that the black bloc attacked the police. Charged them and throwing shit. Chaos ensued. He was sure of the black block being the guilty party. He said "they want to bring war in the streets to this country".

We cannot allow these few to be the meme of our peaceful protests. The next phase will look much like Egypt if we do not find a way to get them out of our protests.

The vet felt that there will be killing that will make Kent State look like childs play. "they're going to get someone killed" he said

There were kids at that protest. He said the medics took heavy casualties as they tried to assist the wounded.

i picked up a paper in Indiana (may have been Inpls star) that said the police said they had infiltrated the anarchist to spy on them. So now we know that they are in there. That would explain why the huge already in place police presence at the end and perhaps even why the huge media presence at the end.

I remember noticing two days before zucotti was busted, the sudden arrival of many many media trucks that had not been there before.

so I do think the police infiltrate and help plan the anarchist actions and I do believe they notify the media so the bad shit will be sure to be seen. However the anarchist are real, are not satisfied with us marching along like cows, and seek chaos.

some are in Occupy. If u want these protest to be successful., we must find a way to seperate from them. Otherwise we are a stones throw away fom being called insurgents.

the peaceful protest were gaining public support. As long as they are successful in violence at the protests, we will lose public support. (which I think is the plan of the powers that be.

[randome]

18. Interesting perspective. Thank you.

I've been saying since shortly after OWS began that if it wasn't better organized, someone would do something stupid that the Republicans would use to paint the entire movement as evil.

Now I wonder if someone within OWS will simply get impatient with the pace of change and do something truly mind-boggling stupid just to get everyone's attention.

[TBF]

21. Why would it be someone in OWS doing something stupid?

It could just as easily be the police deciding to clamp down - they certainly bring enough personnel to do so.

Granted there are two sides to everything and agree that the report from the protestor about the anarchists is interesting.

[randome]

22. Define 'in OWS'. Or, better yet, define 'not in OWS'.

When I say 'in OWS', I simply mean someone marching with the protesters and planning violence.

I agree, however, that the vast majority of protesters are peaceful and would disavow any attempts at violence. But someday a riot's going to break out and at that point, no one will care who is with OWS and who is not.

[Robb]

24. And my point is that it doesn't matter who it is.

Police infiltrators or indigenous idiots; the point is it can be derailed too easily, and the media lap it up and serve it on a steaming plate for the country to tut-tut.

[TBF]

30. We can't use that as an excuse to stop resisting.

I know it's an election year and as a woman (with a daughter and several nieces) I am well aware we have a big job ahead of us and I do see it as critical, especially given the opposition. I will spend time campaigning for our president again, as I did as a precinct chair in 2008.

But I also support Occupy. It is not a perfect movement, but nothing is perfect. I know it seems confusing to some but it's completely logical, I think, to vote in the best possible candidate we can get while we continue to resist an economic system that is making 1% of the planet wealthy beyond comprehension while others lose their jobs, homes, and sometimes their lives.

It is interesting to me that some will say "we can't be non-violent - we have to use all non-violent means possible" - but when we do so then they move the goal posts and say "oh - but we can't do that. What if it leads to something violent happening?". Some will only be happy when we are completely quiet and subservient. When I see those people I have to ask "Why?" Why is it in your interest to fight the resistance?

[socialist_n_TN]

45. Also by the logic of this post.........

("And my point is that it doesn't matter who it is.&quot , violence is inevitable and so the only non-violent option would be to do nothing.

[Robb]

54. Then you misread.

It doesn't matter who is being violent, because even if you didn't start the violence, you're allowing yourself to be part of a group that cannot restrain itself. You're playin into their hands to do so.

[pinboy3niner]

26. Thankyou, once again, for your concern

Whatever would we do without you?

[randome]

33. Wither.

[pinboy3niner]

36. Your time is coming, my friend

The only question is what I'll wear to the grave-dancing party.

[rhett o rick]

42. So it sounds like you want us to give up protesting because it may lead to

violence. I have a hunch the people, whom you apparently have no connection with, wont give up until there is CHANGE, real change. Not some bullcrap that the Conserva-Dems want us to accept.

Violence is coming. Peaceful protests dont even make the nightly news let alone get the attention of our corrupt Congress. I do not condone violence and think it will lead to worse conditions, however, the corruption will not fix itself.

[randome]

47. "The corruption will not fix itself." Totally agree.

I think protests are important. I have advocated more mass protests since OWS began. I was very much against camping out in public parks and calling it 'protest'.

Please. Keep up the pressure. Everyone. But there are still too many messages being relayed at once. I didn't know that 'we' had a problem with NATO until Chicago happened.

I thought it was supposed to be about income inequality. As long as the message keeps changing, it may not be heard by the right people.

And my point about the police still stands. Yes, they behave barbarically at times. But they also risk their lives thousands of times each and every day. Keep things in perspective.

[socialist_n_TN]

52. It IS about income inequality.........

The more BILLIONS (TRILLIONS?) of OUR TAX DOLLARS spent on imperial wars for the benefit of the capitalist elite, the less dollars there are to feed the hungry, house the homeless, find jobs for the jobless, etc. THAT, and of course the very act of imperial war itself, is why NATO is worth protesting. IT'S ALL INTERCONNECTED.

I will give Obama a lot of props as a centrist politician though. It was GENIUS to move the G-8 talks away from the NATO summit. It fuzzied the connection between imperialism and the economy and also kept down the size of the demostrations.

[randome]

57. Hell, yeah, we are throwing away cash faster than it can be printed!

No argument from me! I do wish, however, that one message would predominate. We need to keep in mind that politicians and media personalities have short attention spans.

[sabrina 1]

79. Well, riots broke out at Civil Rights marches, people died as a matter of fact.

That did not stop the movement. Nor did it change the minds of anyone who supported equal rights for all Americans. People are not stupid, so I wouldn't worry so much about 'image'. Worry more about substance. About effectiveness. I don't get all this 'worry' over some truly, very, very minor incidences while pretty much ignoring the number of peaceful people who have ended up in the hospital.

Do you not worry about the image that sends across the world about the Police? It sure got lots of support for OWS when the NYPD reacted with such violence in the very first week and as you must know, the UN has asked the US Government to protect protesters from the brutality directed against them.

I am not worried at all about the 'image' of protesters, but the image of the US Police Force has taken a nose dive across the globe since these protests began.

Iow, if you want people to respect the police, and I have spoken to police btw about these unwarranted attacks, I think you should do as I did, call them and ask them why they are doing this. When I did so, I was told that they 'understood' the concerns, they admitted that the images were not good. I got the feeling that at least a few of them were ashamed. The City Council members I spoke to last Fall to complain about the actions of the police, agreed with me and said they needed the public to call.

No one in an official capacity that I called, as we were asked to do when this began, made any excuses for this behavior. Nor did they point to a few minor incidents to justify it.

[EFerrari]

31. Do you really believe that you can avoid being called an insurgent

by distancing yourself from the handful of people who show up to behave badly?

They're already calling us terrorists, for pete's sake. Nothing those anarchists do or don't do will change that.

[2pooped2pop]

62. I guess I mean

more likr ...not only will they call us insurgents but that we will be insurgents. I think we have been led to believe insurgents are some evil crazy group but that in reality maybe they only are one step further than our own poor and middle class fighting for our right to survive.

i protest in the hopes of stopping America from becoming a place where her people are left to fight and die in the streets. I think we are just a few short steps from that now and that as much as I understand the deire to do more than march along like cattle, the only hope to "win" this thing is through peace.

[EFerrari]

64. That's a good point. Insurgencies can be peaceful and educative, too. n/t

[socialist_n_TN]

25. By calling it "riot porn" you set up a self censoring.........

attitude that would let Police violence go unknown and unremarked. And unchecked. IOW, you ENABLE state censorship by using this terminology.

BTW, in times like these a question like, "Who's side are you on?" might not be deep, but it is pertinent. Between fascism and people's rights, a side MUST be chosen.

[Robb]

29. Violence against police is a losing choice.

There is zero upside. You paint yourself, and everyone around you, as deserving of being at the receiving end. And no one cares who started it.

The powerful images are those of violence being perpetrated on the nonviolent. That's how you change history. Not with riot porn.

[EFerrari]

35. Riot porn that changed history:

You can't be neutral on a moving train

[Robb]

50. Idiotic to call Kent State protesters violent.

You're making my point for me. Which of the Kent State protesters threw things?

[EFerrari]

72. Idiotic to call violence less pornographic because your side is "innocent".

You have made my point. Thank you.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

71. I believe Martin Luther King threw a rock.

More riot porn.

[socialist_n_TN]

38. In any political uprising, especially a long term one..........

there will be violence. That's history. The violence ALWAYS starts with the state forces because they're charged with enforcing the status quo. By the logic of you're first paragraph ("...no one cares who started it.&quot the enforcers of the status quo would have carte blanche to attack protesters, peaceful or not, and get away with it. Or be excused FOR it.

Another angle would be, by that logic, why NOT attack police? You're going to get blamed for violence no matter WHO starts it, so you might as well get your licks in too. And of course there's the final angle. You can always stay home, which is what the oppressors want. That's actually the ultimate reason FOR police violence. To intimidate and stop the uprising.

In any political uprising there are a range of people. Not all are pacifists. Some believe in self defense. The amount of violence is usually proportional to the amount of power the status quo is willing to give up WITHOUT violence. So just HOW violent it will be depends ENTIRELY on the fascists and the proto-fascists.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

70. When OWS marched on Times Square it was boring

until the NYPD showed up with horses. Just people milling around. When the horses and police in riot gear showed up it got exciting. Riot porn ensued.

[coalition_unwilling]

40. Calling it 'riot porn' allows it to be marginalized and seen

as fringe-like material, unworthy of scrutiny, analysis or condemnation by the mainstream.

[socialist_n_TN]

46. Yes it does..........

That is the framing implied by those words. And I would add, unworthy of support.

[jillan]

56. Did anyone see Dan Rather on Maher over the weekend? There used to be 55 different news sources.

Now we are down to less than 10 and they are all corporate owned, pushing whatever benefits them.


Our media has become pure propaganda. Luckily we finally have more choices, but still - where is the investigative journalism??

[G_j]

58. it never took a "handful of idiots" to provoke police violence against protesters

& that is a fact! Although the presence of so called idiots is certainly a welcome excuse for that violence.

[hfojvt]

60. "although the truncheon can be used in lieu of conversation

words will always retain their power."

Verily, were you not asking for a quote from V?

[Romulox]

61. "Look what you *made* me do!" - every abuser, ever. nt

[ZombieHorde]

66. You make some good points, but police brutality is a very important issue to many people too.

For some people, the right to protest is extremely important.

[Robb]

75. I agree it's very, very important

Too important to continue protesting under a model that is so easily hijacked by a handful of idiots and a complicit media. It's effectively neutering the power of protest. And that can't be good for democracy.

[Rex]

67. All in one OP. Well played.

I can just see that pointing finger going all apeshit crazy on the electorate!


"YOU DID THIS TO ME...YOU DID THIS...GNATO!!!!

[just1voice]

76. CNN never focuses on the "why", your point is illogical

CNN, like all other MSMedia whores, will show some mentally ill homeless person instead of ever talking about why a protest is occurring.

Many on DU are showing police brutality in response to peaceful protests, a police tactic most Americans are sick of which the MSMedia glorifies. DU in NOT glorifying it, DU is exposing it. Again, you completely miss the point.

[donheld]

80. Yes, Robb is a dingbat.

[Fire Walk With Me]

81. I fully agree with your concern about a few violent types destroying the entire thing for everyone

be they well-meaning or not, cops or not.

I fully believe we can win this on strength of numbers alone, winning hearts and minds as they say, without which there can be no revolution.

I learned about Smedley Butler here on DU; he said to the Bonus Army to not descend into law-breaking lest they lose the support of all Americans. And John Lennon was and is utterly correct: Copy NEED to get you violent so they they'll know what to do with you. They must turn your joy and love into hate and anger so they are then dealing with equals.

When =I= say "FTP", fuck the police, I mean it as "Let's forget them better still", if I may invoke another classic musical act. They are violence trolls. We shout "Don't feed the trolls!" and go do our thing.

[Fire Walk With Me]

81. I fully agree with your concern about a few violent types destroying the entire thing for everyone

be they well-meaning or not, cops or not.

I fully believe we can win this on strength of numbers alone, winning hearts and minds as they say, without which there can be no revolution.

I learned about Smedley Butler here on DU; he said to the Bonus Army to not descend into law-breaking lest they lose the support of all Americans. And John Lennon was and is utterly correct: Copy NEED to get you violent so they they'll know what to do with you. They must turn your joy and love into hate and anger so they are then dealing with equals.

When =I= say "FTP", fuck the police, I mean it as "Let's forget them better still", if I may invoke another classic musical act. They are violence trolls. We shout "Don't feed the trolls!" and go do our thing.