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Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
Fri Aug 28, 2015, 02:04 PM Aug 2015

Zimmerman, sociopathy, and systemic failure

A full 1/6 of all people have a degree of sociopathy.

Your colleagues who do as little as possible while always shifting work to the colleagues they later blame for the mishaps: a small degree of sociopathy.

Zimmerman, bragging on Twitter about his ability to shoot a teenager, exhibits a rather larger degree of the same affliction. (See this thread here

But what worries me is that there are systemic shortcomings in the structure USA society that seem to encourage that behaviour rather than discourage it:

Scaremongering against fellow Americans (PoC, Latinos, gays)
An educational system that allows such scaremongering to be embedded into the lessons
Ready availability of weapons
Worshipping of vigilantism (Batman, Iron Man)
High degree of heteronormativity in conjunction with 'masculinity' expressed through one's ability to overpower someone else
An economic system so rich in volatility and income disparity that it breeds violent discontent
DU'er Politicub added the following observation: the U.S. labor market - with the increase in temp and contractor jobs - tips the scales in favor of those who treat people like playthings to be thrown away at will.

And the list goes on and on.

We need systemic changes. Lots of them.

Zimmerman is not an outlyer - he is indicative of systemic failure.

DU'er JustAnotherGen suggested that my response in the thread cited above be turned into an OP of its own. While I seldom post OPs, I am happy to oblige.

31 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Zimmerman, sociopathy, and systemic failure (Original Post) Betty Karlson Aug 2015 OP
I'm kicking it! JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #1
Done. Betty Karlson Aug 2015 #2
kick AllFieldsRequired Aug 2015 #3
Agreed that Zimmerman is not an outlyer. Baitball Blogger Aug 2015 #4
Agree AuntPatsy Aug 2015 #5
I agree. brer cat Aug 2015 #6
K&R n/t NikolaC Aug 2015 #7
If anyone wants to consider a profile of someone who does not need firearms study George Zimmerman. gordianot Aug 2015 #8
The authorities aren't concerned about Zimmerman. Baitball Blogger Aug 2015 #13
I figure Zimmerman is trolling for donations. gordianot Aug 2015 #15
I really wish that people who claim to be on "our" side wouldn't resort to the same Baitball Blogger Aug 2015 #17
Zimmerman's main problem is violence he gets it where he can find it. gordianot Aug 2015 #18
K & R. Symbol of a very sick society unfortunately. appalachiablue Aug 2015 #9
Worshipping of vigilantism (Batman, Iron Man) passiveporcupine Aug 2015 #10
That's because when people watch stuff like that, they build up tolerance for it. raccoon Aug 2015 #21
Something has been rotting the soul of the USA since Nov. 22, 1963. Octafish Aug 2015 #11
I like the explanation by Paul Levy and follows the rotting soul thesis. gordianot Aug 2015 #16
Amazing story! Octafish Aug 2015 #19
ttt Blue_Tires Aug 2015 #12
Great OP, thank you steve2470 Aug 2015 #14
k&r Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #20
There were so many people defending Z-Man here on DU uponit7771 Aug 2015 #22
Taunting has always been his game Wash. state Desk Jet Aug 2015 #23
OMG I don't have enough eyewash for that image ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #26
I totally agree MrScorpio Aug 2015 #24
THIS. And not "the terrible Zimmerman jury." DirkGently Aug 2015 #25
Excellent OP ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #27
Yes. LWolf Aug 2015 #28
Good question, but is starts with the basics: Betty Karlson Aug 2015 #29
Then that starts at least partially, at the state level. LWolf Aug 2015 #30
A society that does not care for its members cannot expect to retain their loyalty. bemildred Aug 2015 #31

brer cat

(24,558 posts)
6. I agree.
Fri Aug 28, 2015, 03:16 PM
Aug 2015

Great post, Betty. I hope you will post more OPs in the future; you obviously have a lot to contribute.

gordianot

(15,237 posts)
8. If anyone wants to consider a profile of someone who does not need firearms study George Zimmerman.
Fri Aug 28, 2015, 04:22 PM
Aug 2015

This is ongoing he even tweeted his desire come and get me. When he kills again or commits suicide a few questions will be asked obviously too late. Some incoherent police chief will answer awkward questions with awkward answers and all that remains is disgust that nothing was or could be done to stop what happened. At the very least he should be disarmed. Makes on wonder how many similar cases are running around free?

Baitball Blogger

(46,699 posts)
13. The authorities aren't concerned about Zimmerman.
Fri Aug 28, 2015, 05:05 PM
Aug 2015

If they thought he was a racist-loose cannon they would have to admit that there are red counties all over this country that are equally afflicted.

It would be more cost effective for them to delude themselves into thinking that anyone that disagrees with them is the threat. I imagine that those of us who have been very vocal about the skewed criminal justice system are probably under secret double-probation surveillance stake-outs. And if I'm right, I wonder if there is any way to determine how much tax payer money has been spent on this futile endeavor.

gordianot

(15,237 posts)
15. I figure Zimmerman is trolling for donations.
Fri Aug 28, 2015, 06:09 PM
Aug 2015

The confederate flag on his tweets is a fairly obvious appeal. Although unemployable; based on his picture he is obviously eating, getting haircuts and someone let him in their pool. Since there has a not been any recent battery complaints from girl friends that avenue of expression may have dried up for now. He seems to be really frustrated my guess he has had another run in and will be heard from again. Shots were fired at him earlier this year there will be some sort of next time, some in the media are obviously watching this drama. When complaints get dropped there is always more to the story.

Baitball Blogger

(46,699 posts)
17. I really wish that people who claim to be on "our" side wouldn't resort to the same
Fri Aug 28, 2015, 06:35 PM
Aug 2015

stupid level as right-wingers. Seriously, every time that a member of a minority group retaliates in the same violent manner that is attributed to racists, the collective white community loses its shit. And, make no mistake that a community that has a history of being immune to prosecution will not have one reason to show restrain.

gordianot

(15,237 posts)
18. Zimmerman's main problem is violence he gets it where he can find it.
Fri Aug 28, 2015, 06:54 PM
Aug 2015

Be it a kid wandering the neighborhood, wife, father in law, girlfriend, cousin, plain clothes police, road rage encounter most of his victims do not follow a clear pattern other than they encountered George Zimmerman. As far a hate he seems to hate everyone with fervor. When someone discharges a weapon at you on the highway you have a serious problem.

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
10. Worshipping of vigilantism (Batman, Iron Man)
Fri Aug 28, 2015, 04:45 PM
Aug 2015

What about the need for realism in games where players "kill"?

No more imagination allowed. Games are not just about skill and technique any more. They are about how grisly they can get.

I don't understand why people want to play games like this. I do love good scary movies, but I don't like the fact that I'm becoming inured to the blood and guts part of them. I can watch videos now of cops shooting and killing dogs and people. I never used to be able to.

I have not yet watched a beheading, and I won't do that.

I don't think this is a good thing.



raccoon

(31,110 posts)
21. That's because when people watch stuff like that, they build up tolerance for it.
Sat Aug 29, 2015, 03:33 PM
Aug 2015
I do love good scary movies, but I don't like the fact that I'm becoming inured to the blood and guts part of them. I can watch videos now of cops shooting and killing dogs and people. I never used to be able to.


Just as people build up tolerances to certain substances.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
11. Something has been rotting the soul of the USA since Nov. 22, 1963.
Fri Aug 28, 2015, 04:45 PM
Aug 2015

Excellent observations and OP! Please post more often, Betty Karlson.

gordianot

(15,237 posts)
16. I like the explanation by Paul Levy and follows the rotting soul thesis.
Fri Aug 28, 2015, 06:25 PM
Aug 2015

Dispelling Weiteko, he did an excellent analysis on the Madness of George W. Bush. Website; www.awakeninthedream.com

An adherent of Carl Jung

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
19. Amazing story!
Fri Aug 28, 2015, 07:39 PM
Aug 2015

Echoes "no country for old men

“Indigenous people have been tracking the same 'psychic virus' for many centuries, calling it 'wetiko' in Cree (windigo in Ojibwa, wintiko in Powhatan), a term that refers to a biologically wicked person or spirit who terrorizes others by means of evil acts.”
― Paul Levy, Dispelling Wetiko


The idea of giving that evil "it" a handle, and thus the solid basis, makes it much easier to remove and destroy. It has applications for DU and a certain criminal organization with links going back to that awful day in 1963.

Thank you, gordianot! I will learn more about Mr. Levy and his work. Dr. Jung possessed an awesome mind, a physician, a Bodhisattva.

Wash. state Desk Jet

(3,426 posts)
23. Taunting has always been his game
Sat Aug 29, 2015, 11:44 PM
Aug 2015


What is behind that face he puts on is the face of one who is consumed with self pity.He likes to ignite the fuse in powder kegs in his target/victims ,thats the sociopaths game. He loves the thrill. The cup cake comment.

But when he's alone with his thoughts he is a scared little coward filled with self pity. And he knows he is not in control of his game, in fact he knows it got him.

Zimmerman is that powder keg waiting to go boom.

MrScorpio

(73,630 posts)
24. I totally agree
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 09:37 AM
Aug 2015

And while these are some pretty good examples, I think that it's quite easy to develop a template in order to identify whenever these sociopathic instances occur.

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
25. THIS. And not "the terrible Zimmerman jury."
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 11:11 AM
Aug 2015

Our culture and our laws have been dragged in this direction for decades. What people are in denial about is that there was not a clear legal path to convict Zimmerman of anything. Feeling really strongly that he's asshole doesn't work in the jury room, and it's not supposed to.

1. He had a gun he was permitted to carry and conceal.

2. No one was present to say how the conflict began.

3. At some point Zimmerman was tackled and / or punched, which he said put him in fear of his life.

That's all that's needed for a "lawful" killing these days.

That's all the present law requires to give someone the right to shoot to kill. And it is precisely what the modern NRA gun fetish ideology is pushing for. Their mythology is that America is a teeming battleground, full of illegitimate sub-humans of various descriptions, and that a certain demographic of "law-abiding citizens" is all that stands between us and some fanciful version of The Walking Dead.

And it's not even the terrible "Stand Your Ground Laws" that are the problem. As it stands today, in nearly every state and municipality, people can carry a weapon, start a fight, and then simply kill with the flick of a trigger if it isn't going their way.

That's not going to work well for someone who isn't plugged into the system fairly well, of course, or for anyone not near the top of the cultural pecking order.

And make no mistake, Zimmerman is an unbalanced individual. But he's also the embodiment of a culture of personal power carefully nurtured and given free reign through a deliberate, malevolent twisting of the meaning and purpose of the Second Amendment.

This is the fantasy of a fearful, threatened segment of our population, and it dovetails with the species of rightwing politics we saw at the Bundy Ranch as well. "Piss off conservative men, and we'll just shoot you. Take the guns we're using to shoot you, and we'll shoot you. Look at us wrong, have the stereo up too loud, and we'll SHOOT YOU."

People are making a large mistake getting wound up about the outcome of Zimmerman's case, or even the idea that he is a particularly evil or racist person. He is living out a fantasy carefully cultivated and feverishly maintained, and if we don't do anything about that, his story will be one we hear every day.

Zimmerman is not the exception. He's the new rule.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
28. Yes.
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 07:07 PM
Aug 2015

I have thought for a long time that a large number of people in the U.S. exhibit some degree of sociopathy. I've attributed it to cultural dysfunction: a society valuing excessive nationalism, competition, fear, and hate, and devaluing empathy.

We can find examples everywhere we look.

I haven't thought to much about it being systemic in terms of the systems we use to organize and run our society, but that, too.

As a teacher, I'd like to talk further about scaremongering embedded in lessons. The truth is that every state, and every district within a state, and every school within a district, is a reflection of the communities they serve. We like to think of education as a tool to evolve communities, and it can be; it can also be a tool to further cultural dysfunctions.

I know that there is, in varying degrees, an effort on the part of states and districts to address the most obvious abuses. Except, of course, when the elected officials are working for populations with a larger degree of sociopathy.

I know that I'm a pretty good guardian of what happens in my classroom, to the degree that I'm able. I can't, obviously, reject mandated tests.

What are some examples that might be embedded into lessons? Are they things that teachers can modify, or are they embedded in mandates?



 

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
29. Good question, but is starts with the basics:
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 02:14 AM
Aug 2015

Textbooks.

Textbooks that BY LAW are not allowed to talk about the existence of LGBT until the children are 13 / 14 years old.
Textbooks that introduce the notion that all sex, ANY sex is wrong until you are married
Textbooks that obfuscate the misery of slavery, and textbooks that claim the Civil War was started over freedom(TM)!
Textbooks of basic economic theory that contain a hidden message of "immigrants are coming for low wage jobs".
Textbooks that harden the notion that hard work will get you out of poverty (basic reality: it won't. The American Dream is dead or at least comatose right now.)

Combine those with the standardised tests where a child's answer is tick-a-box right or wrong, not a degree of hand-written right, and a teacher who wants to correct textbooks errors and symplifications is left to saying:

'When we do the test, please tick the box where it says abstinence prevents pregnancy. When you are studying this subject with your special buddy, please consider the use of a preservative. Now let me demonstrate with a foot and a sock how that might work, because this school doesn't want me to demonstrate an actual preservative. Also, if you want to pass the test just tick any answer that makes abortion sound evil. And pay no attention to the overabundance of African-American sounding names in the questions about abortion."

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
30. Then that starts at least partially, at the state level.
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 08:10 AM
Aug 2015

It's the state boards who decide what texts are on the approved list to buy.

Texas and California carry more weight with publishers, having the biggest populations, and publishers write materials catering to those two states. Specifically, writing to their state standards. Texas is pointedly a problem in this area.

With the CCSS, for history the manipulation shifts a bit. The CCSS covers process, not history content. National groups work to influence that content. Here's one battle we just lost:

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2015/07/30/3686060/conservatives-get-major-win-fight-ap-history-classes/

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
31. A society that does not care for its members cannot expect to retain their loyalty.
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 08:24 AM
Aug 2015

I think that is what you are seeing. It's always been there as far back as I can remember, but it became much more prevalent and accepted when Raygun came in, that lack of team spirit.

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