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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPutting the picture of the Chicago cop punching a protester in context
This happened before that:
I attended one march, got first hand reports from others and monitored the media as well as twitter feeds closely. The overwhelming majority of NATO protesters did not run into police violence. In most cases the police escorted the protesters, closed of streets and negotiated with the protesters when things did not work well. In some cases they even gave the protesters water.
It was a very small number of protesters who even engaged the police, yet many folks, especially from out of town, are acting like it was a police state. Police states don't escort protesters, give them water and negotiate with them.
I am proud of the Chicago Police Department and how they conducted themselves this weekend. I was more bothered by some of the heavy handed legal maneuvers made by Rahm's administration in advance of the NATO Summit than I was with the way the CPD conducted itself.
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11 Bravo
(23,926 posts)Someone (and you can probably guess who) will be along directly to show you the error of your ways while shouting, "OFF THE PIGS!"
elleng
(130,732 posts)Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)wading into the crowd with his club before this response to his actions changes the context. How very typically Chicagoan of you.
nobodyspecial
(2,286 posts)You do have proof that that is exactly what happened. Right?
wndycty
(17,445 posts). . .and the police. The organizers had pleaded with people to leave. There were 2,000-3,000 people in the march, by the time the confrontation started there were less than 100 people. You figure it out. The folks who encountered violence were there for violence.
Wait Wut
(8,492 posts)...you lost it with "typically Chicagoan". WTF is that supposed to mean? Nothing like stereotyping an entire fucking city to make your point.
Then again, I see you're from "Sin City", NV. I guess that explains it, huh? 
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)Zalatix
(8,994 posts)And history never repeats itself.
Quit with the 'Police brutality' thing - you'll just piss Rahm Emmanuel off.
(Just kidding, lol. Well said, Egalitarian Thug)
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)Is that too "left wing" for you to handle? Because it just flies a little too far past blaming just the cops and Daley?
Wait Wut
(8,492 posts)With your reasoning, we should bomb Russia just on principle. Wars should never end because you never know when one of those other countries will "repeat history". They never change, you know.
Zalatix
(8,994 posts) 
Wait Wut
(8,492 posts)They should hide under their beds quivering in a state of constant paranoia, because nothing ever changes. 
Zalatix
(8,994 posts)Wait Wut
(8,492 posts)...I could tell what it was by the link, though. Would you like me to search for links to show you how many times a cop has saved a life, prevented a crime, acted with compassion? I could actually provide 3 examples where I was more than a little relieved to have a cop nearby, but I'm not one to share too many personal experiences with strangers.
If you'd like those links, it will have to wait until later this evening. Oh, and I promise to include links on stories from 1968, as well, since you seem to be quite the history buff. I bet I could even find a few good cop stories about Chicago cops. Unless that would ruin your day. 
Wait Wut
(8,492 posts)Lived there for 40 years, as a matter of fact. Guess what, I'll take that label of "typical Chicagoan" and wear it proudly.
Glad you found Vegas. I hear there's no corruption there, at all. One more thing, what other groups of people, cities, countries, etc. do you feel comfortable stereotyping?
facetious_badger
(16 posts)It is his job to maintain order, but the police never catch a break. Either he's slandered for going into the crowd with a baton (with no real physical protection) like he is supposed to, or he stays out and is blamed for 'standing by' when an incident happens. It's easy to judge his actions now from the safety of your home, but consider how much more volatile and dangerous a situation can be when you're in the thick of it as he was.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)What is different within departments that work and those that don't is the internal culture. Does the department serve the public or does it control the public? Errors will always be made, that's the nature of the work, does the department encourage its officers to err on the side of permissiveness or authority? CPD has always been a model of a dysfunctional police department. Corrupt enforcers for whoever pays.
facetious_badger
(16 posts)They don't really have a choice in the matter right now. If they make one stumble then the department and the city get slapped with lawsuits. The rioters are not the ones who get in trouble is there is violence and destruction, it's the city. Just like trampling deaths at concerts aren't blamed on the crowd, they're blamed on the owner of the facility and the security companies. Not only is litigation likely, but the officers can be demoted, acquire career damaging reprimands, or outright fired.
I have several friends in all sorts of law enforcement, and helped give me perspective on the issue. They don't want to wade into hostile crowds, they don't want to go on a high speed pursuit, they don't want walk up to a pulled over vehicle with tinted windows, etc. Those aren't enjoyable experiences, and put them in a great deal of danger.
Then when something happens the media pours over footage that is edited to reflect negatively on the police officers involved. The end clip of several officers using what, to the audience safe in their home, appears to be excessive force. You rarely see the person who fled as they careen through the streets, running red lights, endangering pedestrians, causing other vehicles to crash, damaging property, etc. I try to view these incidents from the perspective of how would I feel if my family were out on that day. Even if they weren't hurt they would still have been put in danger. All because someone refused to act like a responsible adult and not driven off.
nobodyspecial
(2,286 posts)Apparently the people who live and work here don't know anything, all cops are evil, and violence is not only acceptable, but often necessary. And, if you hit an evil cop first, he should do nothing. Oh, and Rahm and Obama are to blame.
I really need to step away from here, but it's like a festering scab these past few days.
wndycty
(17,445 posts)Oy vey. There is a reason why I don't come here much anymore.
nobodyspecial
(2,286 posts)Just pick one:
1) The cop was lying and it didn't really happen, just an excuse to start cracking skulls.
2) It was the work of a government infiltrator trying to make the movement look bad.
3) Any bad act was not committed by any of us so it doesn't matter.
I haven't been around much either and really just need to log out. These would not have be the prevailing voices just a few years ago. I think most of the sane people have checked out.
EFerrari
(163,986 posts)wndycty
(17,445 posts). . .of the protesters.
EFerrari
(163,986 posts)HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)
jehop61
(1,735 posts)that someone else is seeing this for what it was. Some police may have over reacted, but some protesters were looking for a fight to "get the pigs". Thanks for seeing both sides. My post in a similar vein got lots of very negative feedback earlier today.
midnight
(26,624 posts)facetious_badger
(16 posts)And yet when they get their wish and the police back off then at the first stubbed toe they'll be howling in outrage at those evil cops who weren't there to protect them from themselves.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)laughing...
Mr. Charlie appreciates you people staying busy with this while he is screwing the folks you left at home. And you.
wndycty
(17,445 posts)Oh my. . .
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)what a morally bankrupt statement.
and you don't think much of the police if you think that's all they know how to do given that the protest probably had some knuckleheads, but not all.
wndycty
(17,445 posts). . .was not even wearing a helmet and the others were. They targeted this guy.
EFerrari
(163,986 posts)Looks like he was "targeted" by his own.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)so if you hit me with a piece of wood, EFerrari could punch another poster because you hit me.
sometimes i can't believe the crap i'm expected to take seriously.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)I watched as the cops themselves were being punched by that (very) small bunch of front-line protesters who stayed after the end (granted, the cops were well protected, but the aggression and provocation were very real); as they had bottles, trash containers, and at one point a metal barricade thrown at them. This went on for nearly an hour and a half, in the broiling heat, and they essentially stood still and kept their cool. No tear gas or pepper spray was used, nor the feared sound machine. I was fascinated by their well-practiced tactical maneuvering as they inched the crowd toward the west. To me, the response was all in all very measured. And I was impressed that Supt. McCarthy was out on the front lines with them the whole time. Cops don't go rogue when their boss is out there directing the action in person and watching them.
I feel many of these still images are out of context, and that (for once--because I have no love for the Chicago police in general) the CPD is to be commended. I guess we have to commend McCarthy for this new discipline in the force. This was no 68.
In Montreal yesterday, 300 student protesters were arrested and 20 were injured. That's far more than the 45 arrested and 4 injured here yesterday. I know people are fixated on these images (some real, some fake) they are seeing ("citizen journalists" with cameras were among the most prevalent group in the front line of the conflict yesterday, waiting for a good shot to take viral), but it doesn't match the reality. The fact is, the people who came to protest legitimately--the nurses, the veterans, most of the Occupy groups--did so with dignity and good faith. A very few who were intent on creating a scene did it intentionally and are trying to profit from it. I choose to ignore their unrepresentative actions.
EFerrari
(163,986 posts)pulling us out of our cars at gunpoint or confiscating our beer making equipment? Pre-emptive raids rock and keep us safe.
Oh, and in case you didn't notice, the pix you posted show a police officer being pushed into the crowd by the police. Maybe email these to CPD for after action lessons learned.
wndycty
(17,445 posts)The protesters often marched down streets that were not blocked off, so the escorts protected them from traffic. I saw the shit first hand. There was an unexpected march on Saturday afternoon down Michigan Ave, the street WAS NOT BLOCKED OFF, once the CPD learned of the march they BLOCKED OFF THE STREET and escorted the protesters. Tell me what is so fucking sinister about protecting protesters from getting hit by cars?
An answer is appreciated.
EFerrari
(163,986 posts)FYI, I watched a livestreamer from this area in Chicago all afternoon yesterday. He was following an impromptu march and, by God, not one of those protesters stepped out in front of traffic.
How far does one bend over without breaking something to justify the Powell Doctrine as applied by the Chicago (we promise we won't torture no more) PD?
Sorry, no sale.
wndycty
(17,445 posts). . .when folks marched in streets that are not blocked off the cops, instead of arresting them, escorted them. I was there. I fucking live in here, I was in the middle of it. My eyes are pretty good and probably did a better job of letting me see what was going on in comparison to your live stream. Don't you think?
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)Your being there actually makes false things other people saw! Because you were there, so if YOU didn't see it, it must not have happened.
wndycty
(17,445 posts). . .than seeing something in person?
Think about it. When you watch on a live stream you see what the camera sees, you have no control over the camera. When you see things first hand you can see a lot more, like seeing streets that are not blocked off being blocked off by the police so the march can continue.
randome
(34,845 posts)
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)My friends were there, some livestreaming, and I know their integrity and courage. I did NOT see protesters attacking cops; I saw hundreds of cops show up to a peaceful, emotional gathering of Veterans, and threaten the use of chemical and less-lethal weaponry (Scott Olsen was there, that must have been wonderful for him to hear).
People want to ignore the loss of the Bill of Rights. I won't allow that to happen.
wndycty
(17,445 posts). . .this is rich.
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)Truth is a tricky thing.
quakerboy
(13,916 posts)In a court case with conflicting versions of an event, who do you believe, a witness or security camera footage of the event?
When there are conflicting calls between reff's at a sports game, what do they go to? A bystander or the video tape?
You were in one location. Video cameras were scattered throughout the events. They surely caught far more information than you personally could.
And Video can be reviewed, with no change between one viewing and the next. It remains true, as originally created, unless it is purposefully altered, whereas human memory has been scientifically proven to be capricious, very selective and highly colored by our own perceptions and inclinations..
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)If it is seen happening, it happened. It doesn't matter if it was on a live stream or not, or if you didn't see it being there.
EFerrari
(163,986 posts)as you are trying to do here. But fucking excuse me if I don't wet myself because police decided to "escort" peaceful protesters instead of arresting them.
Seriously, that's just SAD.
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)(high-five)
reACTIONary
(5,768 posts)
Gidney N Cloyd
(19,819 posts)EFerrari
(163,986 posts)
wndycty
(17,445 posts). . .with them.
The 2,900 other protesters who had a fucking message, in this case was to stop the war in Afghanistan, had already left. At one point these guys threw a bike rack at the cops.
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)Those who stood their righteous 1st Amendment ground, peacefully, were brutalized and nearly trampled by riot cops, some of whom can clearly be seen smiling in pictures.
They did this to Occupy LA on March 17th as well. I was there. Cops attack peaceful gatherings and the news says it was the protesters. Yes, there may be some who took shots at cops (and who the hell is to say those weren't cops!!! There is plenty of proof of undercovers creating reasons for riot cops to attack, see my DU post "goldmine angents provocateur"
. BUT. This was blatant abrogation of the 1st Amendment. Only. Cops were monstrous, as usual, and people are apologizing for them?
Something I see on DU far too often lately distresses me. People will nitpick details in order to completely avoid naming the actual issue (in this case, police brutality against peaceful protesters and the loss of the Bill of Rights).
The elephant in the room demands to be named, and addressed.
randome
(34,845 posts)You're willing to take a conspiracy theory THAT far? I suppose wndycty is a planted agent, as well.
First-hand report of the punches thrown DOES trump livestream and photos taken AFTER a scuffle.
Unless that first-hand report comes from an unreliable source. But we have no reason to think that at this point, do we?
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)this was in a newspaer we picked on the way home. I think it was the Indy star but not sure. Historically police have always infiltrated protest groups.
Now was it the infiltrators who revved up the shit or the anarchist? That is the question. I do believe the huge show of force was waiting at that end because they had info that shit would happen. It is certainly not unlike them to do shit to give police reason to bust heads. Did that happen here? I don't know.
I also do believe that the anarchist are not satisfied with simple permitted marches and feel that it is ineffective.
randome
(34,845 posts)No one knows for sure what everyone was thinking. Even in the livestream, you can't see the front of the protesters so it's impossible to say who started what.
wndycty's eyewitness account means something, though.
EFerrari
(163,986 posts)2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)lol. a book I read as a teen. There must be a pony. I dont remember much else other than a story told in the book of a room filled with shit and the optimistic response was happily shoveling the shit because "surely with all this shit, there must be a pony"
ahhh. Thanks for the memory.
randome
(34,845 posts)EFerrari
(163,986 posts)The_Rights_Of_Man
(1 post)I'll say it … I'm embarrassed.........I'm disappointed. I came to Chicago expecting an opportunity to protest NATO’s presence and intervention in countries far removed from the “security” of those nations belonging to the NATO coalition. Instead, I saw obvious attempts to provoke the police, outright misrepresentation of the facts - by “reporters” and my "fellow" marchers (who "claimed" to be attacked by the police - but actually sustained injuries from objects thrown by the raucous and unprovoked crowd).
There are serious issues to be discussed and resolved - yet in Chicago, I saw a group of my fellow "activists" presenting little more than overly dramatic hyperbole-laced rhetoric. Few were even able to describe the reason for attending let alone engage in any real discussion of the issues in an intelligent manner.
I'm disappointed and a bit ashamed of those few who attended the marches and rallies. There was nowhere near the 15,000 ~ 40,000 people we were led to expect. Who decided that to be effective in presenting our “message” we HAD to be confrontational…we HAD to call the police names…we HAD to throw liquids and debris to get attention….
I still believe that the very existence of NATO and America’s deep involvement in that organization is wrong for many reasons. But my Chicago experience has awakened me to another threat….one that may even transcend the evil of NATO…the treat of ignorance, anarchy and disrespect.
wndycty
(17,445 posts)-snip-
One gangbanger stood in front of the strip mall across the street from the police station and showed his solidarity with the neighbors who, on any other day, would just as soon hang him from a street lamp by his ankles. "I agree with these guys: fuck the police," the banger said, "But where are these motherfuckers every other day of the year?"
'If I had to choose between the police and these motherfuckers (protesters), I'm riding with the police,' he added."
-snip-
http://chicagoist.com/2012/05/16/scuffle_breaks_out_during_tense_chi.php#photo-1
cali
(114,904 posts)
SammyWinstonJack
(44,129 posts)
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)What a fascist!
coalition_unwilling
(14,180 posts)at the protesters with no provoation visible in the video, such that even Corporate News Network's Don Lemon expressed his dismay and disgust at what the CPD were doing, noting that the police violence was UNPROVOKED!
wndycty
(17,445 posts). . .I don't need any footage. Anyone that encountered violence wanted to encounter violence.
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)Damn. Impressive. So those are your photos in the OP?
wndycty
(17,445 posts). . .they are from the Chicago Tribune, the some publication that published the photo of the cop throwing the punch. If that picture is valid their other pictures are. I was however present for a demonstration on Saturday afternoon at Michigan and Wacker and saw with my own eyes, not someone else's webcam, cops escorting the protesters and blocking off street for them.
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)that things captured on video didn't happen because you didn't see them in person. It's really bizarre, like verging on solipsism. Other people have eyes, too.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Why trust your own eyes.
wndycty
(17,445 posts). . .not the cops.
I could have written half the Chicago is a police state threads last week in advance of the the summit.
You guys have a narrative that is not based in reality.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)But you're also making blanket statements about things you couldn't possibly have seen, unless you have the ability to be everywhere at all times. You can't make the claim "Anyone that encountered violence wanted to encounter violence" based on you seeing one thing from one location.
coalition_unwilling
(14,180 posts)John Lemon's assessment on CNN.
Against that we have your first-person experience and analysis.
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)I'm highly inclined to agree with you.
Having been to enough protests where the cops were in good humor and professional enough to head off possible violence, I cringe when I hear the kneejerk police state allegations and accusations of knocking heads.
Every protest has a small group of instigators, intransigents, or just plain assholes, and the cops are usually pretty good at isolating them, but not always, and then the cops get the blame for taking care of business.
Back in the Viet Nam days, I remember some assholes bringing baseball bats and the cops weren't as well trained or protected. Their reputations are still suffering from the results of that.
randome
(34,845 posts)Impressive.
Earth_First
(14,910 posts)
wndycty
(17,445 posts)Show me pics of him 5 minutes before he got cracked in the head.
Show me pics of him 4 minutes before he got cracked in the head.
Show me pics of him 3 minutes before he got cracked in the head.
Show me pics of him 2 minutes before he got cracked in the head.
Show me pics of him 1 minute before he got cracked in the head.
Show me pics of him :30 seconds before he got cracked in the head.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)That was Scott Olsen after being shot in the head with a teargas canister by Oakland PD last year.
I guess I'm not surprised... that you are not familiar with it...
Are you gonna be ok honey...
boppers
(16,588 posts)In other words, not exactly relevant.
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)and to end up with brain damage when you have not even checked to see if you are correct or incorrect.
HERE. Look at the first two videos, and search more as you wish. This may not capture it, but there are video out there which do. Search for raw.
http://occupyobservations.blogspot.com/2012/01/oakland-officials-caught-in-lies-about.html
randome
(34,845 posts)No one here is saying he 'deserved' to be injured. Except you.
dana_b
(11,546 posts)a video of him just standing there MINDING HIS OWN BUSINESS!!
nobodyspecial
(2,286 posts)The OP lives here and participated Saturday and was providing his perspective.
wndycty
(17,445 posts)NM
EFerrari
(163,986 posts)of the Chicago Police torture case handed down last week. It's simply not possible that these public servants, these older Boy Scouts could have been found guilty of torturing detainees in their kid gloved care.
Response to EFerrari (Reply #68)
Post removed
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)monsters. Because that is very clearly proven time and time again. Goes to motive.
EFerrari
(163,986 posts)Without even buying me dinner first.
lmao
EFerrari
(163,986 posts)
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)for several minutes prior to being shot nearly point-blank with a "less-lethal" round, nearly killing him, leaving him with brain damage. Inferring in a terrible manner that he had it coming.
We have provided proof that Scott was merely standing there, and have yet to see an astonishingly large apology from the OP. We are on-topic in this sub-thread directly created by the OP.
dana_b
(11,546 posts)S/HE asked about the man in that picture - who happens to be Scott Olsen.
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)(((facepalms)))
Logical
(22,457 posts)frazzled
(18,402 posts)(with captions). Police officer's helmet is removed by protesters; he's beaten on the head with a stick, with enough force to break it; he pushes back with club to prevent another protester; another cop finally raises his fist to prevent the officer from being punched. That last picture has been taken out of context.
Anatomy of a Clash
http://galleries.apps.chicagotribune.com/chi-120520-nato-sequence-police-punches-pictures/#9
nobodyspecial
(2,286 posts)I guess the cops should have just allowed themselves to be beaten with sticks.
Mc Mike
(9,111 posts)Says ~ min 12 sec 45 (14 min vid) that the bb s were travelling west along with dispersing protestors, and were forced back east by the police. They were already blocked to the south, and east. That 'kettling' makes a dispersal order unhelpful.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=710141
Wnd's eyewitness accounts are only good for the part of the field s\he was in. The photo sequence is incomplete, because it starts with the white shirted officer's helmet already off, which doesn't necessarily show an unprovoked attack on that officer. Doesn't show either side before the start of the altercation. When I see an officer with an old-style night stick, instead of the Okinawa-style grain grinder model, I think that officer is harking back to the 'good old days' of police-community relations. My opinion may be wrong, but that officer's bosses created the whole situation with the kettling.
There was no legit reason people couldn't march south in the first place. In Pgh.'s G-20 (the 9-25-09 march), the cops arbitrarily enforced bridge and street closures which clearly contradicted my State Rep.'s official route info, and the official established 'free speech' zone directly E-NE of the Convention center. Nobody was allowed to even approach the area. The cops were Keystone to a Chinese Fire drill degree. The field commanders made up the rules on the fly, to make a moving and constantly enveloping kettle around the legally permitted marchers, with overwhelming manpower on all sides, as they shunted the protest across the river from the G-20 site, tastefully out of the range of the WB and IMF big-shots.
If I saw a protestor launch an unprovoked attack on a cop, I'd do my best to restrain them, before the cops responded to the attack by ravaging the rest of the innocent protestors. All cops aren't bad, but they're bad in large groups, listening to their pin-head bosses. I don't want any physical harm to come to women or men who are on the job. But there isn't a large casualty list on the law enforcement side, and there is one on the protestors' side.
Either cops start the violence, or u.c. cops start the violence, or some agro protestor whose brain is in pawn to the system (so s\he is working for that cop system) starts the violence. So now it's obviously time for all DU hands to call each other cops, and pick which of the 3 flavors of cop they want to back, against other DU people. Sweet mother of mercy, we could screw up a 2 car funeral.
Logical
(22,457 posts)wndycty
(17,445 posts). . .like the ones provoking the cops this weekend hurting their real movement.
Logical
(22,457 posts)wndycty
(17,445 posts). . .enjoy talking shit about folks like me, I won't take the bait.
Logical
(22,457 posts)Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)and explain away all of the photographed and video'd instances of bloodied journalists (didn't include the pic of a Getty photographer being arrested), protesters, protesters being rammed by police vans and horses from behind, brutally forced out of having a peaceful gathering (remember the Bill of Rights?), etc.
You may be attempting to use one instance to negate several dozen+, and I would be interested in knowing that this is not the case. Plus, you haven't proven that any and all who provoked the cops were not cops to begin with. You may have missed on your Twitter feed that cops were caught dressing as black bloc. Just as they did in Montebello Canada, where they were foced to admit it and apologize.
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)under the worst provocation.
A cop punching anyone should be a termination-level offense. Period. They are not fit to carry a badge, much less a lethal weapon.
randome
(34,845 posts)That doesn't sound right.
nobodyspecial
(2,286 posts)I guess the cop should have just let his fellow officer be hit on the head with another large stick. Is that what you are saying?
wndycty
(17,445 posts). . . get in the way.
Logical
(22,457 posts)nobodyspecial
(2,286 posts)Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)especially when he was not the target, then you have nothing further to say which will engage me. Can't keep your cool, can't enforce the rules. And when one of these savages finally pulls a gun and kills one of us, will that be somehow justifiable?
That is rhetorical.
secondvariety
(1,245 posts)looks like the cops were kicking ass and taking names before the officer lost his helmet. If a group of heavily armed men are charging with clubs, it's going to be either fight or flight.
coalition_unwilling
(14,180 posts)make it seem like the very first event in the chain is the pig losing his helmet. But that event (pig losing helmet) itself comes in medias res, and as far as I can tell, you and I are the only ones to bother mentioning that salient fact.
JH19059
(90 posts)Here's a link to an interview with the photographer who took the pictures of the officer punching the protester.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/videogallery/70064061/Community/Anatomy-of-an-iconic-photograph
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)weird
nobodyspecial
(2,286 posts)wndycty
(17,445 posts). . .I have stopped responding to them because they are not worth it. They are like a bunch of spoiled brats with their hands over their ears screaming la la la la la la la la. LOL
Logical
(22,457 posts)you. But I bet you think twice about posting BS about being proud of the Chicago police down the road.
Do more research next time. It will add weight to your posts.
randome
(34,845 posts)You were hoping to get responses more to your liking.
Some of us don't really care about being right or wrong. We care about seeing things as they truly are.
Logical
(22,457 posts)I continued to respond in this thread. How is that running away?
I am not running from my facts.
I look forward to your informative responses to my two posts.
Or IM me and we can really have a open conversation.
nobodyspecial
(2,286 posts)Troll you into silence.
In one poster's own words: "But I bet you think twice about posting BS about being proud of the Chicago police down the road."
Frankly, I'm disappointed with myself for getting sucked into it again today.
Logical
(22,457 posts)nobodyspecial
(2,286 posts)which were quickly dismissed. It was an eyewitness account but I guess people who weren't even there know more about what happened. It all revolves around the premise that ALL cops are evil, blood-thirsty thugs and protesters NEVER do anything wrong.
Logical
(22,457 posts)of the police beating someone for NO REASON.
Do you realize it is a history of abuse by the Chicago PD?
Hell, under your logic you could defend the police in any situation.
You need to look at all the evidence. Not a few set of photos.
You need to pay closer attention.
nobodyspecial
(2,286 posts)"Putting the picture of the Chicago cop punching a protester in context"
I am posting photos and video of the specific event raised in the OP. I am very on topic.
Nowhere did I claim that there is no abuse by Chicago PD. Nowhere did I say police are justified in any situation. I did look at the evidence -- photos and an eyewitness account by the professional journalist who shot them -- germane to the specific incident raised in the OP. You need to actually read and entertain notions contrary to your narrative.
Logical
(22,457 posts)nobodyspecial
(2,286 posts)I guess they should have just allowed the protesters to hit them again with a sturdier piece of wood. Silly me.
randome
(34,845 posts)It means nothing about being pro or con about something.
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)Sorry, but it looks like the tension was brought on by the police themselves. It's NOT an excuse to start hitting anyone you feel like.
Mc Mike
(9,111 posts)with a copy of '1984'.
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)punched this older woman. Is HE justified? THAT'S RHETORICAL
randome
(34,845 posts)What's your point? That protesters in Chicago did NOT behave badly? Not sure I see the connection.
Zalatix
(8,994 posts)That woman brutally assaulted the cop's fist with her face.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)That all those cops had nothing to do, then what were they doing?
Why in the heck were all those cops stationed there? What was Chicago afraid of?
The one video i saw, it looked as if the cops could have been beating up one of their own. Why would they be doing that?
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)
Fla_Democrat
(2,547 posts)the love and respect expressed here, by occupiers and supporters. I'll bet, if they could just come here and read the posts of support, their hearts would melt, and there would be universal peace and harmony. 
Earth_First
(14,910 posts)
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Who is that?
Where is this picture from?
When was this photo taken?
How did he receive a head injury?
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)The Chicago law firm that's known for bringing cases of police brutality, false arrest and wrongful convictions wanted to find out just how much the city was paying to outside firms to defend police officers accused of misconduct.
After obtaining records with a Freedom of Information Act Request, they calculated a total: $63.38 million paid to just 11 firms since 2003.
And these firms have been accused of misconduct themselves. The firm that's received the most money--Andrew Hale and Associates--has been cited numerous times for unethical behavior by district court judges, PLO says.
Just who's raking in the dough? Here's a snapshot of the money going to outside law firms: (At link)
SmileyRose
(4,854 posts)One of the biggest hot button issues in the DU and not one post in the thread hidden by the jury. Spirited disagreement sure, but a decent discussion can still be had on the interwebs.
What a great place this is..........
K&R
dana_b
(11,546 posts)but I think it's just one. #71
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)the only one.
girl gone mad
(20,634 posts)What next, protesters armed with styrofoam and nerf guns? Those poor beleaguered cops. All the beatings and macings and thuggish violence were totally justified.
SpartanDem
(4,533 posts)and see how you like it.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)"Broke" the piece of lathe.
Lathe breaks when you pick it up wrong, police mob apologist. Why do you think it sells for $7 for a bundle of 50 pieces? A freakin' toothpick carries almost as much impact.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)midnight
(26,624 posts)and it appears that his movement is forceful and fast and leaves those with these paint sticks very little notice to do anything. It is a total different feel than what this still shot conveys....
ieoeja
(9,748 posts)I noticed that before this weekend. And thought they might have learned something from their disaster in '68. This weekend seems to have proven that point as this was an extremely peaceful weekend all around.
- No pepper spray
- No tear gas
- No dogs
- Only one substantial clash. Police admit to having initiated it to clear the street. And they chose not to wear full body armor during the clash feeling it was unnecessary.
Results?
- Zero property damage
- No molotov cocktails
- No rock throwing, etc
And the Chief of Police credits this to light-handed treatment of the protestors as opposed to the usual heavy-handed tactics used in other cities.
Hopefully other cities will learn and stop abusing the protestors.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)So my general opinion of them is based on the long history of really foul deeds under color of authority. That sort of an organization gets no benefit of the doubt.
just1voice
(1,362 posts)This should keep you busy for a while, try google images "police brutality".
facetious_badger
(16 posts)Most of which is edited and described in such a way that the context is lost. If someone wants to avoid being handled roughly by the police then it is in their best interest to cooperate. Funny how this always seems to happen after recklessly attempting to avoid arrest. Even if someone was innocent of whatever the stop was originally for I have no empathy for selfishly putting the lives of others in danger. If you aren't guilty then cooperation will hasten your exoneration. If not, then don't act like a petulant child and take responsibility for your actions.
The real victims here are the other motorists and pedestrians who were hurt or killed, or came close to it. Or the destruction of property that someone worked hard to get. Funny how everyone seems to forget them in favor of some criminal's (because whatever the original guilt was, fleeing and reckless driving ARE crimes) poor pitiful me sob story.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)cop, no longer do so. He pulled up behind me when I stopped to visit an art gallery and yelled "hey, can we talk?" Of course I said sure, how are you doing sort of thing. He told me I'd pulled out too close in front of someone a while back. I apologized and asked where it was because I wanted to know where I'd done it, how I'd missed being safe. He went off on my when I didn't recognize the names of the streets. "you live here, you MUST know the street names". At which point I started yes sir, no sir, I am sorry sir, I try to be a good role model for my child sir, I am sorry sir, I will be more careful sir, I am sorry sir, etc etc etc etc and he kept yelling at me, glaring very angrily.
I thought of asking if I was under arrest, or simply walking away, but we had taser happy cops here at that time and I really didn't want to experience it. After he finally left, I went in the gallery and everyone there came over, surrounded me, asked wtf was going on as they were very concerned watching this. They said they thought of calling the police, but recognized the irony of it.
I didn't know the name of a couple streets. That was my problem. Was I cooperative? Very much so. Why did he yell at me for at least 5 minutes? Because I was uncooperatively not knowing the street names.
I was innocent of whatever the stop was for, and cooperated as best I could.
It happens and too often. I was victimized by this asshole who had a badge and a shitty attitude. Maybe his mom just died, his dog ate the couch, his kid was sick. I don't know. But he had no right to act this way. None.
facetious_badger
(16 posts)Try to consider this from his point of view. For all you know your type of car or someone who looked like you could have a BOLO out on them. They may have had reports of suspicious activity or complaints about what a motorist may have done.
Even if he was being an asshole for no reason you can't condemn the police as a whole. Every job field has them. By and large police have a dangerous, thankless job for mediocre pay. They do it because they want to serve. They aren't saints, but by and large they are good people with integrity.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)If there was a bolo, why did he keep me there so long, glaring and scolding me, over and over and over to the point the witnesses were concerned about wtf was going on? He had an attitude problem. Plain and simple. For some reason my not knowing the name of a street set him off. Seriously. That was when he got going, irate, red in the face, to the point I became frightened as did the witnesses.
You wrote:
My example was to show you that this is not always true. Even if you cooperate, still they can be assholes and those who fall afoul of their assholery are not always "petulant child"...not taking responsibility for their actions.
I've known plenty of nice cops, have friends who were cops. But this guy was an asshole and has destroyed a lot of my respect and trust for cops. Now when I see them in my little town, I am cautious.
There are jerks in every profession. When you are in the position of power like this guy was, like police are, being a jerk hurts so many other people, both in your profession and the general public. And they don't always respond appropriately.
facetious_badger
(16 posts)My post was in reference to people actually fleeing or resisting arrest. Those tend to be the scenarios involved in most escalation of force incidents. If he had tried to strike you then yes I would view that situation as an improper use of force, but being a jerk doesn't doesn't qualify. You don't know what preceded your encounter. What may have seemed as an out of the blue attempt to bully you may have just been spillover from an earlier incident. It also doesn't mean he isn't good at his job.
As far as the BOLO bit goes: because precautionary detainment tends to result in lawsuits for the city, and considering those sorts of notices are more likely to be descriptions than names he could very well have been assessing the likelihood of it being you. Law enforcement has the dubious distinction of being a profession that can just about always (under the current American litigious philosophy) results in a hefty lawsuit. Sometimes they're an Abner Louima, and are very much justified. Most of the time they're not, and even if the city wins the case it is often after months of time, money, and personnel being diverted for the trial. I am not saying without a doubt that there was a BOLO or anything else, I'm just trying to give you perspective on the matter.
How does overzealous questioning count as rough treatment? And one incident involving a police officer you felt was rude has seriously damaged your trust in law enforcement as a whole? If so I advise you to stay away from Taco Bell before some low paid cook forever ruins burritos for you.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)insulin overdose. Those sure were scary things for those poor cops here. And so professional! As it says on the ticket, it will be mailed to you if you don't WANT to accept it in person. And the diabetic? Yes, he was fleeing so fast, being unconscious on the ground. If only he'd appreciated ALL those cops were trying to do for him. The horror! Those poor police officers, only trying to maintain order.
Overzealous questioning counts as harassment, and if I'd turned away, betcha I'd have gotten tazed. So I didn't. I stood, waited, repeated myself over and over and over and over and over and over and over and was glad when I found out I'd had witnesses, also watching and waiting for me to get tazed.
How about John Williams, the carver who got shot in Seattle a couple yrs back. His crime? Walking while deaf and carrying a piece of wood and a legal knife. He crossed a street in front of a cruiser. Cop got out, follows behind him (now off camera), yells hey hey hey put the knife down. When Mr Williams turns to see who is yelling, he gets shot 3 times. No "police", just "hey, hey, hey, put the knife down". Walking down the street in a city, you hear someone yell "hey hey hey" and turn to see what the noise is and blam blam blam. Within 7 seconds. Did I mention he was partially deaf? Did I mention he was carrying a knife that was legal to carry? Did I mention there was no mention the person calling was a cop? Did I mention he was given no chance to comply with the order? Did I mention Seattle police ruled the shooting was not justified?
But no. That poor officer was just doing his job, right? And now he has to live with knowing he did this, for the rest of his life. Poor guy. Right?
The more power you have, the more you have to keep it under control and the less often should you have a bad day.
Thank you for your concern.
facetious_badger
(16 posts)Thank you for the balanced viewpoint! Much of those alleged police brutality clips never show the whole picture of what happened. The police have shown a great deal of restraint. The police are vastly outnumbered, there are some groups who are vocal about their dislike or hatred of the police, and riots can be instigated more rapidly than most people think. They can't just focus on the people in front of them, they have to monitor 360 degrees around themselves, constantly assess the mood of the crowd, keep on the lookout for any potential crime, are often heckled and have things thrown at them, and must still be able to engage with people in the crowd. For the duration of their time in the crowd they keep every single one of those points constantly in mind, and often do not have any protection except for maybe a bulletproof vest. It's scary stuff, and violence can crop up out of nowhere with the slightest shift in the crowd's mood.
