General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSomehow people are forgetting what cops think of Occupiers.
Last edited Sat May 26, 2012, 03:04 PM - Edit history (2)
A DUer, bakpak I believe, posted a link to a public police forum where they were openly mocking the screaming women Anthony Bologna had just maced. I took screenshots and sure enough, the site realized civilians were watching, and deleted the thread.
This is from a cops public Facebook page, before he took it down:
But wait! There's more!
"Video taping the ass clowns goes a long way to deter."
http://www.policeone.com/Crowd-Control/articles/5588426-Observe-Occupy-Watch-the-tactical-evolution-of-their-revolution/
This is Peter King, who was or still is the Congressional overseer for the DHS. He can be found on youtube calling Occupiers "losers".
People on DU sometimes nitpick and shift context to avoid discussing the elephant in the room, which is in this case, that the government itself is at war with those who wish to use the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Nice 7+ month silence from all sections of government and the white house about 7,000+ arrested Occupiers...and silence is consent.
Fox "news" on Zuccotti being cleared:
randome
(34,845 posts)Most protests are handled by local authorities. Do you really want the federal government to move in?
mike_c
(36,324 posts)Look, I rarely see cops stopping other cops from police violence. I just don't. It's always cops beating innocent people acting within their rights-- NEVER cops beating cops off of said innocent people. I'll have a lot more solidarity with them when I see them FIGHTING for the 99%, since violence seems to be what they do best-- instead of the 1%.
randome
(34,845 posts)You mean you rarely hear about it. I guess police departments don't routinely 'brag' about their bad eggs.
Some behave abominably, no question about it. They also risk their lives thousands of times each and every day.
I don't see any evidence that they are working for the 1%. I don't think the rich give a shit what happens in cities like Chicago. They are all sitting on their beach front homes sipping margaritas.
Cops just go where their local civic authorities tell them to go. If they are to blame for following orders, then everyone who was in Iraq is to blame for what happened there, as well.
Could they be better trained in how to deal with mass protests? Hell, yeah! But sometimes it's the protesters who truly get out of control. Sometimes it the cops.
I think a little perspective is in order.
RedRocco
(454 posts)or clerking in a c-store or or cutting timber or any of a dozen or so other jobs in the US. so the "risking their lives 1000's of times a day" just doesn't fly
from http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2011/pf/jobs/1108/gallery.dangerous_jobs/index.html
Traffic-related accidents were up 37% in 2010 and represented 56% of all fatalities. Only two occurred in high-speed pursuits, he said, with the rest occurring on routine patrol.
BTW I have had 5 of the jobs on that list
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)raouldukelives
(5,178 posts)where you never about hear about rich people trying to pay off public officials or shape policy.
bakpakr
(168 posts)While I don't feel all police officers are bad I do think those that aren't bad need to step up to the plate.
Every police officer that witnesses, or has knowledge of ANY wrong doing by another office and does nothing is just as guilty as the bad officer.
randome
(34,845 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)was kidnapped from his home and deposited in a mental health hospital for days before finally gaining his freedom. But he had tapes, and although he still has not received any justice, that whole department has been exposed. However, HIS treatment was enough to silence any other good cops.
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)...of to remain the chowder-head authoritarians that most of them are. You know, then ones who are so afraid of the 99% that they find themselves beating up defenseless people. Those bastards. The ones who are on the wrong side of this Revolution.
- There are 7 billion on the 99%er's side. They can't win this thing. They will either join us or be overwhelmed......
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)defend the people from these racist thugs. Did you read their comments about the African American protester? Do you think this is just a 'few bad apples' still? 'Beast'??? Do you think our civilian police departments should be referring to African Americans as 'Beasts' who need to in 'Cages'??? Disgusting, rotten to the core, Fox News, Limbaugh morons, THAT's who you keep defending. ANd NO, this is NOT, as I already told, isolated.
I KNOW cops in NYC, and I can assure you that racism is alive and well in that Department and is the NORM. As recent exposure of their scandalous racist policies has revealed.
You keep defending them if you wish, I will never, ever defend having a racist police department and the fact that they would say these things on a board that is accessible to the public, shows how ingrained the racism is. They don't even realize how outrageous it is to speak this way, it is so normal for them.
Disgusting, despicable, and shameful. I am appalled that you have nothing to say about what we all have known for a long time, especially minorities in these cities but continue to try to distract from the 'elephant in the room' for some reason.
An immature bigoted attitude is displayed here. It is as if they are romanticizing the 60s and want to see it happen again.
DJ13
(23,671 posts)mike_c
(36,324 posts)eom
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)until then, you are right.
AnotherMother4Peace
(4,678 posts)mike_c
(36,324 posts)AnotherMother4Peace
(4,678 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)then yeh, mike is as big an asshole and every bit as culpable as mike. silence is consent
virgogal
(10,178 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Too stupid not to realize their comments could be read by the public. Explains why they are Fox/Limbaugh groupies.
1monster
(11,024 posts)And yes, I have had friends and neighbors who were cops. But I still would say they are not our friends.
There is a mind set of US against THEM and they (the cops) are the US and we are the THEM. As the saying goes, whether the rock hits the pitcher or the pitcher hits the rock, either way is not good for the pitcher.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)just1voice
(1,362 posts)and ordered to arrest members of the press, corral 100s of innocents, pepper spray and beat law abiding protesters, test new crowd control weapons, etc...
DLevine
(1,789 posts)Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)EFerrari
(163,986 posts)and hand them over to the police in the middle of the night.
And they will feel that way until something happens to them.
Walk around them.
mcdedrick
(6 posts)As the mother of the screaming girl in the video, I think the more important question is not just how little the police think of the occupiers, but how little the state and the federal government think of them, and of protecting the rights of their own citizens against improper police tactics. We are STILL waiting for the DA or the Feds, for that matter, to press charges against DI Bologna. Both have been asked to do so, and despite overwhelming evidence, have refused to take the proper action. People should be outraged.
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)Please take your case to the NLG or ACLU and send Bloomberg's private army back to the stone age! I cannot believe some high-powered lawyer would not do whatever it takes to represent your case! Best wishes, please Message me with updates, so many are on your side! Sorry for re-opening any wounds!
mcdedrick
(6 posts)I appreciate your thread...awareness and rememberance
here is a good thing. Kaylee is in excellent hands. The day the video came out we got a wonderful attorney, Ron Kuby, who is as keenly interested as us in seeing some real justice done. Thank you all for your kind comments. I am new to this kind of website (with threads and forums, etc.) so I appreciate your patience if I make any mistakes
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)You may wish to point him to this thread as the police chatter goes to detailing mindset and motive, that some actually laugh when others are harmed, and some look forward to doing harm (the NYPD's Facebook post being most telling and applicable).
Cop culture must be stopped. All my best to you in accomplishing this!
mcdedrick
(6 posts)I actually sent him the link to this forum last night! Thanks for gathering the info to begin with!
hootinholler
(26,449 posts)Please don't hesitate to reach out if there's anything we can help with.
Earth_First
(14,910 posts)It seems as though she has had an outstanding moral compass passed on to her by her family and friends.
Secondly, as was previously stated; encourage your daughter to litigate this. Be strong!
Lastly, welcome to DU!
mcdedrick
(6 posts)On all accounts, thanks. We are proud of her, and you can be sure that once all our judicial options run out, that we will look at all other possibilities including civil ones.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)In your position, I would feel outraged.
Thanks. We still do feel outraged at the lack of any kind of criminal repercussions for those involved. As I said, I am quite new to all this forum stuff. I certainly don't mind if you recommend this post. Do I need to do something to allow that?
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)You can recommend the first post in a thread, but not subsequent posts unless I am mistaken.
I don't know how many posts you have to have posted before you can start a thread. It's even possible that the rules have changed and you can start a thread soon after you begin to participate in DU.
So happy to have you on this website.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)public outcry. We ARE outraged. I am so sorry for the comments these police officers made regarding your daughter in the OP. They are disgraceful! Ray Kelly should be fired, but then who will fire him?
coalition_unwilling
(14,180 posts)oblivion.
mcdedrick
(6 posts)SammyWinstonJack
(44,150 posts)Son of Gob
(1,502 posts)The racist shitbags who comment on a Sun Times article represent the people of Chicago. Good one.
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)I'll change the qualifier but I am beyond stunned at the number of posts in a row from outright fuckwads, in a row, no supportive or questioning comments in between, just vile, outright racism over and over. The good people in Chicago need to start posting to that newspaper and question false arrests, FFS. Our man was innocent and a cop LIED, then hatebags fry our man online? Insult on top of injury. Thank you for nit-picking and not commenting on the subject matter.
Son of Gob
(1,502 posts)It was just a chance for you to take a swipe at the people of Chicago. First off, vile racist comments are a dime a dozen on almost any newspaper comment section. Secondly, you have no idea if those specific scumbags even live in Chicago. The people your ire should be aimed at is the assholes at the Sun Times who allow these comments.
Thanks for editing part of it, but I'd prefer if you just deleted that part entirely as it adds nothing. Those people aren't cops, they're just some fucking racist losers who have nothing better to do with their time.
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)...and I hate it when people are right, and rain on my irate parade!
Just people going after an innocent man, ONLY because of his color and because they were foolish enough to believe a cop...
Son of Gob
(1,502 posts)I really appreciate that. Keep up the good work.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)woman, Rush Limbaugh propaganda displayed on the board? If it doesn't represent the people of Chicago, where are they?
Son of Gob
(1,502 posts)I think most of these comment sections should be shut down. Finding a comment section without racist comments is like a needle in a haystack. As far as the Suntimes, we're talking about literally a handful of the same people who litter almost every article. Do you think a handful of people represent a city metro area of almost 10 million people?
BTW, that comment section is open to anyone who wants to post. You want to battle wits with those dipshits, knock yourself out. I'll understand if you have better things to do, like most people.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Not the first time this has happened btw. What do you think about cops doing this? Their FB page, again you would think they would be smarter than that, is now gone. Why do you think they made it disappear? Cowards, calling courageous protesters cowards, 'beasts' and 'big boobs' etc, scattered like cockroaches again, when they realized they had once again been exposed for what they are.
And where were the comments from the good cops we keep hearing about? Where are the comments slamming them for their vile, racist garbage?
I hope this goes to the authorities and they need to be fired. We do not need scum like this on our police force.
Son of Gob
(1,502 posts)I was commenting on the Sun Times comment section being included as it had nothing to do with the cop message boards. I've got no problem with anyone exposing these racist cops, if they can be identified I hope they lose their jobs. I just didn't like the smearing of all Chicagoians because of a handful of inbred yokels on a newspaper comment section.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)But yes, those cops need to go. This is not the first time their racism has been exposed like this. Aside from the stupidity of posting it on a forum that is accessible to the public, they are simply too stupid to be cops, not to mention cowardly, in case I didn't say it before.
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Can they be sent to the NYT who might be able to interview their departments? They talk about whining?? Cowards, watch them whine when they think they are about to lose their jobs.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)They listen to Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Michael Savage in their patrol cars.
They think Obama is a Kenyan Muslim Communist Fascist Manchurian out to destroy America.
Many of them are rabid fundamentalists.
They're extremely authoritarian in their psychology. They fear and hate anyone who is different from them, and they're not the least bit hesitant to use weapons against them. For that matter, they hate and fear anyone who doesn't wear a badge. To them, we're not human.
Most cops are bullies that revel in cruelty.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Cops are also trained in handling disturbances. Not every protestor is as innocent as the driven snow. What other occupations do you despise? Is everyone supposed to work - well, where?
quakerboy
(14,093 posts)of anyone I know can shoot me and (likely) walk away free as a bird regardless of why they chose to do so.
treestar
(82,383 posts)There are internal investigations. And you've got then to be wary of everyone in any state with concealed carry permits.
What is society to do - disarm the cops, perhaps. Would you trust cops in a place like the UK, where formerly they were not armed?
Or is this just broad based anger at society in general? What other professions are we to be wary of?
quakerboy
(14,093 posts)Internal investigations appear, by their results, to be more aimed at justification and exoneration than at actual investigation. It is extremely rare that you hear of anything more than a slap on the wrist for abuse of the public, up to and including murder of unarmed civilians.
Case in point, here in Portland, there is a cop who shot and killed an unarmed civilian. They fired him. Now he, with the full support of the union, is demanding his job be returned to him. And by all accounts he is very likely to be rehired.
What is society to do? We need to bring the police back to policing. They need to be a peace force, not a paramilitary group. And they need to be a part of the community, not an outside militia. We have the national guard and the military to take care of those functions.
How do we do this? The way we train police needs to change. The rules for police need to change. Accountability needs to be put in place.
Their training needs to focus more on the people. It needs to involve people. It should probably be done involving far more community settings. They should meet and spend significant amounts of time with youth who will grow up into the young adults they will prospectively be protecting and serving. They should be spending more time with the communities they are likely to police than with other trainees, so that that the connections, the loyalty is with the policed, not the police. Personally, I believe that a fair bit of community service within the communities that are likely to provide the most issues for them would be in order, both during training and during their time of service. If both sides can be seen as human by the other, I am willing to bet that there would be a lot less anger by or against cops, and a greater likelihood to resolve rather than escalate into violence.
Then there is accountability. A policeman should never ever ever be threatened by a camera. In fact, I would advocate that with all the equipment that they carry, it should be no big deal to have a camera/recording device that would be present and running at all times while a policeman is on duty. They are given a great deal of power over the general populace, and are generally accorded a great deal of respect and deference to their reported versions of events. However, there is no denying that there are "bad apples" within the police force. And the sad fact is that they are in a fraternity where a "good cop" tattling on a bad apple can result in death, not to mention social exclusion. That attitude needs to be destroyed, and I think constant recording would do that. Once there is always a true record available, the incentive to lie or be silent about the wrongdoings of another would seem to be much lower.
And then we need to change the rules. They are in a high stress, high danger job, and I do think some reasonable allowances need to be made for that. But I think we have gone too far in this, with even clearly egregious behavior far more likely to receive a slap on the wrist than a true punishment. If anything, I think that while they should be afforded some additional latitude in their actions, the punishments for a police officer who steps over the line should be vastly increased.
Your side comments about other professions seem to me to be a nonsequitur. Name a profession who is accorded the same powers and privileges, and we can discuss whether they are held to a high enough standard.
treestar
(82,383 posts)like those afforded any other profession.
Great progress has been made. Police have been trained to deal with domestic violence rather than just dismiss it. They may still dismiss it in some places, but that has vastly improved. More cops are nonwhite or women. There have been more cameras - don't a lot of cop vehicles now have cameras?
quakerboy
(14,093 posts)Many of the powers they are given may be necessary. Though I am not sure that they all are. There are certain rights that have been granted to police in regards to search, seizure, detention, etc that I disagree with.
That said, I feel that the improvements that you mention are dwarfed in effect by the negative effects of the increasing militarization and insularity of the police community. I think you will find that the evidence of many video cameras backs up that belief with room to spare. Police persons, with very few exceptions, care more about covering each others backs than about protecting you or I. Police abuse of the populace will never stop so long as protecting other police members is a higher priority than protecting the individuals that make up the populace. If this were not true, when a policeman clubs an unarmed civilian, misuses equipment in ways likely to injure people such as scott olson, or unloads pepper spray on a penned group of protestors with no provocation, we would see other officers step in to stop these actions, or at least to detain these offenders. But we do not. I have as yet to ever even hear of an officer being pulled back, much less actually arrested while committing violence on civilians while on the job.
Cameras in the cars are a start. But how many of these protests have police cars pointed at them, recording? Can a dash cam see inside a house or building when the police enter it? I think it needs to go the next step and have the recording device on the policemen themselves. And we need to explicitly make it a protected, non prosecutable action to film a police officer. How many cases could be easily resolved by such action, and how many more would be prevented if the police? I think about the black veteran in the news recently who was shot dead after accidentally hitting his life alert bracelet. If those police were outfitted with cameras and audio recording, we would know what happened, what was said by whom, how those on both side acted. Would the police have shot him if they knew that their actions were subject to review?
And that information needs to be transformed into real accountability. We give police great power and extra rights. And I am OK with that, as long as it is accompanied by a higher standard of accountability. Not a lower one.
Other professions are not accorded the right to shoot me with a high likelihood of getting no worse than a reprimand. Unless you are aware of others that are, they are not relevant to this discussion.
treestar
(82,383 posts)in the course of your job. Cops deal with criminals - the real and vicious ones are out there. Too easy to dismiss all that.
I believe you are wrong on both of your assertions.
My understanding is that taxi drivers are more likely to be killed in the course of their job, followed by private security guards, and law enforcement in third, with retail sales people, especially in small businesses very close behind.
But we do not authorize taxi drivers or sales clerks to kill with impunity.
And your implication that I dismissed the risks that police officers take is very far off the mark. Enough to make me believe that you either did not read what I wrote, or you are deliberately trying to derail the discussion.
With great privilege comes great responsibility. And the fact is that our police force are not even coming close to living up to their responsibilities.
Zalatix
(8,994 posts)One has to wonder if you even know what 'police brutality' is?
quakerboy
(14,093 posts)However, every one of those cops, if they really are cops, is protected from any consequences that would be due them by their attitudes or actions, by by hundreds of other cops who do not necessarily feel that way, but will still lie, or at least stand silent and inactive, while they and those who share those attitudes abuse the public.
The bad apples have spoiled the whole bunch. They are all rotten.
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)who then say and do nothing.
randome
(34,845 posts)You hold the entire movement to the same standard. Right???
I don't hold everyone to blame for the actions of a few. That is counter-productive and unfair. That applies to protesters and police alike. And any other group you'd like to name.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Dawson Leery
(19,358 posts)He is a birther.
What you see in those posts is quite common among the law "enforcement" community.
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)bvar22
(39,909 posts)These people are here To Protect & Serve the 1% ONLY!!
What baffles me is that every single one of them is one of us,
and the 1% would as soon shit on THEM as shit on us.
Go Figure.
[font size=5 color=green]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/center]
randome
(34,845 posts)Always be willing to see things from a different perspective. That's what I strive for.
Some cops behave abominably. Some are heroes. Those are the facts as I see them.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)..is on display throughout this thread.
Thanks for the laugh.
[font size=5 color=green]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/center]
krispos42
(49,445 posts)It's free and simple. It installs as a printer in your computer. For stuff like this, you can hit "print", but instead of printing out sheets of paper, it creates a PDF.
Great for this kind of archiving. These comments can run dozens of pages... hard to get all the screenshots. But with the PDF writer, you just hit "print" and it will create a multi-page PDF document.
Just pick "CutePDF" instead of your normal printer.