Shield maidens were not a myth!

[riderinthestorm]

Better identification indicates fully half of Viking warriors were women!

I love this as it seems to indicate these societies were much more egalitarian than most other medieval societies. Besides, it's empowering to envision strong women warriors especially in light of the two female Army Rangers who just completed Ranger training.

http://redicecreations.com/article.php?id=33169#.VeQ4MB01mGp.facebook

A recent archaeological discovery has shattered the stereotype of exclusively male Viking warriors sailing out to war while their long-suffering wives wait at home with baby Vikings.

Snip

Researchers at the University of Western Australia decided to revamp the way they studied Viking remains. Previously, researchers had misidentified skeletons as male simply because they were buried with their swords and shields. (Female remains were identified by their oval brooches, and not much else.) By studying osteological signs of gender within the bones themselves, researchers discovered that approximately half of the remains were actually female warriors, given a proper burial with their weapons.

Rawr!!

[orange you glad]

1. Oh yeah? Oh yeah? Then why were they called vi KINGS, huh?

I kid, I kid! Rec!

[Demeter]

48. The root of the word is Vik....a bay

So it refers to shore dwellers, who would be the ones with boats....

[TlalocW]

2. Roger Corman was right!

Though I don't recommend watching this without Joel and the Bots.

TlalocW

[Monk06]

40. Female Viking Jazz dancers are HAWT !!!

[Tom Kitten]

50. So was Hammer Films!

Except for the part about the Vikings not invading Britain until about 400 years after the Romans left...

[KT2000]

3. In Northern Britian, the Picts

had women soldiers. Some were bare-breasted to distract the British and Roman soldiers.It's funny, the movie Arthur (about King Arthur) was ridiculed for having female soldiers in skimpy clothes on the top. The public thought it was meant to be a sexy come-on for viewers but in fact they were covered up more than was historically accurate.

[DashOneBravo]

7. That would distract me

[KT2000]

8. Keira Knightley and

other women Picts in the movie. Good movie IMHO. Arthur becomes disillusioned with religion. Incredible battle scenes.

[GummyBearz]

4. Sounds like a great society

We should aspire to be more like them in all ways

[bluedigger]

5. Lagertha approves this message.

[riderinthestorm]

6. My oldest is a medieval archaeologist specializing in Vikings

She watches the show and says it's pretty good, except no way would everyone have such perfect teeth

[grasswire]

11. what a fascinating vocation!

Congratulations on a brilliant daughter.

I started watching that show when doing my genealogy and finding that many of the family members I thought were simply Britons were closely descended from VIKINGS.

Wow!

This news changed my opinion of myself. I had to start considering different cultural influences in my heritage. Went to a Scandinavian Christmas fair and had a blast.

[riderinthestorm]

13. Her passion isn't related to our genealogy but yup, she's pretty incredible

Archaeology is tedious minutiae, enthralling, dirty, academic, and collaborative. A perfect combo for her.

Best thing we ever did to prepare her was hard-core camping. She thrives in nature and isn't fussed with dirt under her fingernails. Maybe stopping at every history marker everywhere we went contributed too...



Scandinavian fests are a blast. Even this Irishwoman goes!!

[XemaSab]

12. That's how I feel about "Call the Midwife"

A bunch of working-class Brits born between 1880 and 1940, all with perfect teeth?

Unlikely.

[Scootaloo]

16. I love that show (and am in love with Lagertha, rawr) but those FIGHT SEQUENCES!

My "Vaforite"? Early season two, two fighting forces are squaring off on a beach or something. They're like two hundred yards apart. Ragnar yells out, "SHIELD WALL!" and they form a sield wall! The other commander does the same! And these two forces scamper towards each other like ten feet, shields up... then just say fuck it and it's a general charge.

And all that dual wield whirling and twirling. Good lord. And let's not even talk about the "scraps of clothing held together by leather lace"

And why are the Norse priests mutants?

[Ghost in the Machine]

43. Off topic but couldn't resist replying because of the sheer coincidence/timing. right as I read this

"scraps of clothing held together by leather lace"

the song "Leather and Lace" from Stevie Nicks & Don Henley started playing on my playlist! I couldn't believe it lol.

I saw that episode that you are talking about, too. That *was* a pretty awesome battle scene! I have the full set of "Spartacus: Blood and Sand" on DVD, it's pretty awesome, too.

Peace,

Ghost

[Cleita]

9. Scythian horse cultures had women warriors. It's believed that this is where the Greeks

got their belief in Amazons. Since these Indo European people were related to other European warrior cultures like the Germanic and Celtic tribes, it follows that they too would have women warriors. The ancient stories of the Celts like the Ulster Cycle refer to woman warriors. Cú Chulainn the great warrior trained under a woman called Scatha who ran a sort of Iron Age military academy. Of course there was Brunhilde a Valkyrie in German mythology.

So since there are all those myths of women warriors it seem there would be some truth there.

[riderinthestorm]

10. I'm pleased the forensics are bearing out old stories

Women have been portrayed as subservient in history for too long.

My oldest daughter grew up during my fascination with Riane Eisler's book The Chalice and the Blade. She spent many hours listening to my husband and I debate its veracity.

She went on to study Vikings because in part there appeared to be more "hard" arch evidence for shield maidens so I love it when science bears that out (for her and I). Her double major was also in folklore studies since she's fascinated with the portrayal of women in historical oral tradition. Her thesis was on Viking burial jewelry for women and its interpretation so this stuff is history crack cocaine in our family.

My posting history demonstrates a long interest in women's rights v patriarchal society so when I run across stories like this, I'm just riveted by how we got from "there" to here.

I know you share so much of this passion and I'm loving you chimed in.

Peace!

[druidity33]

21. And Boudicca too!

Love this stuff. Thanks guys!



K&R

[Cleita]

39. Also, Boudicca is a historical character, not a myth.

The Romans do write that the barbarian women of Gaul, although not in the vanguard of armies, were just as formidable as their men when they did enter a battle as reinforcements when the men warriors were losing, so it seems they were trained in use of arms too.

[LittleBlue]

22. Sichelgaita also

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikelgaita

She was definitely not a myth.

[jwirr]

31. And maybe just maybe they are not myths at all since

we now have proof that there were women warriors.

[MisterP]

35. and they abducted--uh, Chechnyan men?

Last edited Wed Sep 9, 2015, 07:11 PM - Edit history (1)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gargareans
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breast_ironing

[niyad]

14. k and r with thanks.

[Thor_MN]

15. Why would anyone ID a skeleton by burial artifacts instead of just looking at the bones?

The skeleton itself has much more to say about the person than anything that was buried with the person.

[riderinthestorm]

17. Societal patriarchy imo. Even my own hard core feminist daughter fell prey to this

Her masters thesis in 2009 focused on womens burial artifacts, even as she grew up in a hard core feminist family. Her academic training instilled in her that women were not the warriors. Looks silly in retrospect BUT...

Regardless of scientific advancements, it takes a melding of disparate elements to "think out of the box".

Right now my daughters focusing on Viking winter camps - those camps that had to occur because the raiding parties got stuck abroad. Her SO is a GIS expert with ESRI. Combining their talents, they've discovered 8 Winter camps in Europe and the UK - buried, like the giant henge recently discovered in England.

Nobody's thought to combine GIS technology with a medieval archaeologist who can spot the anomalies before that and so she ( and he) are hot on the conference trail.

She's not with a University and has no access to funding even as fellow archs rave. C'est la vie...

Cutting edge stuff

[Tree-Hugger]

53. Hi

What are GIS and ESRI?

[riderinthestorm]

55. GIS is short for geographic information systems

basically he's an expert on reading satellite imaging and maps. He's the modern day equivalent of a geographer/mapmaker.

ESRI is the top company in the world for this type of satellite imaging mapping technology from the biggest projects to the smallest local project. They helped the CIA find Tora Bora for example because they're expert geographers and mappers and trained to read satellite images for minutiae. On the mundane side, they're the company that has mapped your county for the tax assessor (go ahead and check your county tax map, ESRI did that design).

ESRI has been hired by Apple to re-design their mapping app because it sucks as another example.

So my daughter and her boyfriend are using the most sophisticated satellite images available to locate winter camps. Her knowledge of Viking artifacts and possible locations combined with his superior mapping skills.

[Tree-Hugger]

59. Oh wow!

They make a mighty team. Definitely sounds like exciting and productive work for both of them.

Thank you for the info.

[Scootaloo]

19. Grave goods are important signifiers of status, position, and profession

The skeleton tells you what the person was. The grave goods tell you who they were

[Thor_MN]

32. Yes, and have been proven here to misidentify the gender of soldiers...

They knew they were soldiers but by ignoring what is fairly easy to tell from the skeleton, they assumed they were males. A well preserved skeleton can tell much more about the person than artifacts. Artifacts will not tell you how the person died, what diseases they had, how old they were, how well fed they were, how much physical labor they had done.

Artifacts are inanimate things that a person possibly owned at the point in time where they died. Never know, maybe a rich person liked them and dressed them up for their burial. Maybe the person was rich, but was robbed and killed. One can't know with certainty that the artifacts actually belonged to the person throughout their life. Imprecise info.

A skeleton is record of the person's life. A life of hard labor is written into the bones as is a life of leisure. Starvation leaves signs as does gluttony. If you want to know who the person was, read the bones. If you want to know what the people around the person decided to leave with them, focus only on the artifacts. Better yet, study all the info available.

[riderinthestorm]

33. +10 million! Forensic archaeology is the new hot field nt

even as we know it's not "new "

[Mister Ed]

20. I'm puzzled by that, too.

Even a layperson can tell a male skeleton from female with a brief glance at the pelvis.

[riderinthestorm]

26. I'll take a stab. My daughters trained in artifacts, not skeletons

Her masters is from York - the top medieval Viking arch school out there.

The focus was all on the artifacts, not the skeleton. The interpretation was about the brooches, swords, jewels, number of slaves buried with a lord, placement of the artifacts etc. The patriarchy was just assumed. The skeletons were male. Even as "far" back as 2009 when she got her degree. She'd no more question the skeletons were male than question that the helmets did NOT include horns.

Her most recent (independent) research is @ Viking winter camps with her GIS specialist boyfriend. They're collaborating on finding buried Viking winter camps in England and Europe. A melding of new technologies.

Someone decided to explore the skeletons and voila!

[Calista241]

45. If you have a perfectly intact, perfectly preserved pelvis, then yep, it's easy to tell.

But bones that have been buried for a thousand years are never in this condition. Microbes, worms, other insects, and even the Earth itself each take their toll on any bones that remain.

And the bones aren't just lying in a pile of soft dirt that can be brushed off with a few brush strokes. Bones like this can be imbedded into another solid or solidified object.

[Nevernose]

18. I read somewhere that 1% of medieval samurai...

...were female, and that it's only in the last couple of hundred years that Japanese historians conveniently "forgot" that fact.

[LittleBlue]

24. Onna-bugeisha

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onna-bugeisha

[Art_from_Ark]

47. I don't think that Japanese historians have forgotten that

戦国時代末期の天正8年 (1580年 ) 沼津の千本松原の合戦場跡に残された首塚の遺骨105体のうち35体が女性で、他の場所でも同じような結果だったそうな。
"Of the remains of 105 bodies buried in the kubitsuka mound where the Battle of Senbon Matsubara was fought at Numazu in 1580, toward the end of the Warring States period, 35 were of females, and it appears that there were similar results in other places"

http://ameblo.jp/arashi-toranosuke/entry-11832450000.html

[Nevernose]

54. I was trying to find a polite way

And concise way of saying that the Japanese culture does not have the finest reputation in regards to women, especially in the 20th century.

[Chef Eric]

23. Let's hear it for proto-feminist looters & pillagers! Woo-hoo! nt

[Ron Obvious]

25. Riders in the storm....

He was a total looker, eh? Nobody should die at 27.

[riderinthestorm]

28. Heh. Pnwnd. I WAS listening to the Doors when I signed up here

i was furious at the Bush Admin. Riffed my username on being a horse trainer, a Dem, and being in the midst of a Rethug storm.

And agreed, nobody should die at 27. Not sure what your point is ...?

[Ron Obvious]

29. Nobody should die at 27

That's the only point I had.

[yuiyoshida]

27. I love reading stories about onna bugeisha

the women warriors of Japan!


The stories are fantastic.. and colorful...and worth reading about their gallant adventures.

[AlbertCat]

30. Walkures... however, are still a myth

Hojotoho! Hojotoho!
Heiaha! Heiaha!

[TygrBright]

36. Boob armor... ::facepalm:: n/t

[daleanime]

37. Costumes for stage....

[TygrBright]

34. That's gonna piss the neo-Odinist pagan dudes off... right on! n/t

[1939]

41. Not really

Even without the concept of shield maidens, women in Old Norse society had much higher status than in the rest of Europe. The dower rights of widows were firmly established. The wife was chattellaine of the home and keeper of the keys. The wife was the one to welcome guests. Women (at least in the upper classes) had a choice in marriage. Odinist literature spells this out quite clearly.

[orange you glad]

38. Recs without a Kick

I tried to help.

[pinboy3niner]

42. I'm such a dummy! I thought 'shield maidens' meant...

[MerryBlooms]

44. rec & kick

[SwissTony]

46. A friend of my daughter's is a member of the SWAT team in Rotterdam

in The Netherlands. During some of their training, they divide into two groups and one group throws rocks and even Molotov cocktails at the other. Then the group on the receiving end returns the compliment. My daughter's always makes sure she's at the front of the group.

Even if I were 30 years younger and still practicing martial arts, I wouldn't pick a fight with that woman.

[bvar22]

49. I've always been very careful of women with knives.

I can't imagine meeting a bare chested woman with a sword and killing in her eyes.

On the Russian Front during WW2, Women fought in every combat role.
They drove tanks, flew fighters and bombers, and carried rifles in the trenches.
They had a rep as being more cold blooded and ruthless than the Soviet men....and that was a very high bar.

[HassleCat]

51. Kind of odd

There are historical records from the countries the Vikings invaded, and they don't mention women among the enemy.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

52. Maybe they didn't recognize them as women.

[IronLionZion]

56. Does this mean women were raping, burning, murdering, and looting?

and generally destroying people's lives everywhere they went?

I wouldn't want vikings of either gender showing up at my village if I were living at that time.

[burrowowl]

57. K&R!!!!!!

Great post!

[Uncle Joe]

58. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, riderinthestorm.

[Tree-Hugger]

60. Kick!!!! nt

[Codeine]

61. This article is way off base in relation to the original paper.

http://www.missedinhistory.com/blog/raining-on-your-parade-about-those-women-viking-warriors/