Thinking about leaving the DU?

[retrowire]

Don't.

So things are getting heated. There's a lot of things going on right now. It's primary season, the world is falling apart, etc...

But here's the thing, politics are all about making decisions, wise ones. And you don't make the best decisions in an echo chamber, that's why the people on capital hill are so out of touch with the rest of us, they only see each other and the 1%.

so stay, learn, teach and fight.

You feel that DU is filling up with members who are alert stalking others? Stay, fight, find a solution with the admins. You leave, the problem will just get worse.

Hillary supporters, you're upset that this is feeling like Bernie Underground? You can either accept that the majority of your party is following Bernie on DU or if you're so sure that Hillary is the best choice for president you should stay, learn, teach and fight.

Again, this is politics. We will only find our best decisions through debate, disagreement and resolution.

So if this kitchen is too hot then go ahead and take a break, but remember that all voices are necessary for a democracy to work. Stay and fight. Don't weaken our party by leaving. You, and all of us are our greatest strength.

Thank you.

[onehandle]

1. DU being overrun with trolls and disrupters has nothing to do with politics. nt

[retrowire]

3. politics has always been full of trolls. n/t

[onehandle]

4. And there are ways to deal with them.

However, the owners have given up:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10134733

[retrowire]

7. given up?

that's how you're supposed to deal with trolls.

ignore or permaban. what else can you do? track them down and slap them?

[bvar22]

125. One effective way to deal with trolls...

Don't feed them.
They crave a response....ANY response to keep their shit rolling.
No response denies them the gratification.

[retrowire]

130. this so bad. n/t

[Bubzer]

230. +1

[senz]

238. This is the time-honored way of dealing with trolls.

I thought it was common knowledge. Back in the day, on now-defunct message boards, there was a saying that went something like DFTEC (I may have the acronym wrong) that meant: DON'T FEED THE ENERGY CREATURE. When an actual troll showed up trying to harass commenters and disrupt conversations, people would type the warning.

And it's true, ignoring them shuts them up, eventually. They live off attention.

[RussBLib]

10. I wouldn't say "given up"

Just reminding people that there are way to tailor your experience if you are feeling overwhelmed or angry all the time.

I look at all the Hillary/Bernie fighting as still ultimately good for the party. I believe that most Dems on this site will still support the eventual Dem nominee even if their candidate didn't make the cut.

Such is life. I guess perhaps I'm too old to let the bickering bother me.

[retrowire]

19. exactly!

the bickering is good, it is a part of the process to making the best decision.

people should always try being cordial and less rude but hey, its politics.

[notadmblnd]

62. sounds like good advice, not giving up

nt

[Warren DeMontague]

122. you mean they won't pre-emptively declare the primaries over and boot all non-Hillary supporters?

THE FIENDS!

[onehandle]

145. So what you are saying is all trolls and disrupters are non-Hillary supporters.

Glad I didn't say that.

[Warren DeMontague]

150. No, I've done terms on MIRT. Trolls and disruptors are generally dealt with effectively.

The jury system has its flaws but that too, tends to average out to working, over time.

Too many people, of course, want to define everyone who doesn't agree with them as a "troll". I've been called a right winger, a libertarian, AND apparently a stealth GOP operative, just in the last few months.

Yes, that's me- I've been going under deep cover here for 10 years so I could pretend to think that Hillary Clinton has so far been running an uninspiring, craptastic primary campaign. All part of my master plan, my long game so to speak. MUAHAHAHAAAHAA!

Or something.

"trolls and disruptors" aren't running amok on DU, certainly no more than they always are. DU undeniably has a lot of people- a majority, it seems- who don't support a particular establishment primary candidate, and some of the supporters of that candidate seem to be profoundly distressed, angry, and agitated over that fact. But that doesn't mean that everyone who supports a different candidate -or is undecided- is a "troll and disruptor", even though some of the supporters of said primary candidate sure seem like they would like to define them all as such.

Hope that clears it up.

[PatrickforO]

165. Good post. You are absolutely right

Debate is healthy, echo chambers are bad, and most of the people on here aren't trolls.

[onehandle]

172. I've done MIRT too. Constant discussion of 'passing up' people out of reach of MIRT.

Many of which have been here a decade.

MIRT confirmed my suspicions.

[Warren DeMontague]

192. Confirmed your suspicion of what? There's no great secret, MIRT isnt tasked with going after long time

Members, that's admin's job.

They're pretty up front about it- and it's a wise call. If MIRT could ban long time members, this place would be a train wreck.

[onehandle]

196. Since you clearly don't know what 'passing up' means...

...if you were on MIRT, you weren't paying attention.

[Warren DeMontague]

204. I believe the term we used was "kicking upstairs", actually.

But that was the old days, was it not?

The system was changed- oh, maybe a year or two ago, so that MIRT now doesn't even get the alerts on long-time members. At all. Because it became too much of a fucking shitshow. Specifically because some people were bound and determined to use alerts on some long timers to turn the MIRT forum into their own private little mini-meta, where they could spend hours opining at length on the people and groups they didn't like and "didn't belong on DU".

So unless I'm mistaken, at least on the terms I was there it was referred to as "kicking upstairs" or "sending upstairs" but again, that was MIRT 1.0 and not 2.0 or whatever the system is now.

[onehandle]

217. I've experienced nothing like that. It's very business like, and efficient.

Must have been the group at the time.

[Bubzer]

231. oh my....

"MUAHAHAHAAAHAA!

Or something. "

I think that may have to be my new tagline.

[zentrum]

65. Very true.

[RobertEarl]

11. Puhleazeee, handle

DU is not being overrun with trolls and disrupters.

99% of the posters here are good Democrats who have taken a keen interest in politics and current events.

Just because not everyone agrees with you does not make them trolls. Good gawd, as long as you have been here all you can do is smash and trash DU?

[passiveporcupine]

39. thank you

Now I don't have to say it.

[RobertEarl]

54. It is getting old, isn't it?

All this trashing of DU and the good members here is weird.

It's like they think they can tickle porcupines and not get quilled.

The Bern just makes some people try to do weird things, and is what I figure some here are reacting to.

[passiveporcupine]

56. Old, yes, but not unexpected

Unfortunate. It sure doesn't make it easier to have discussions here.

[PatrickforO]

166. Yeah, I got carried away the other day.

But you know, I am feeling the BERN!

[840high]

92. ...^ that

[Bill USA]

93. I think losing "politics 2015" may have something to do with this impression re trolls (or twits)

as I wrote here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7157812

With the loss of "Politics 2015", basically, the only place you've got to go, if you want to post something on politics but it's NOT about Democratic Primaries --- is Gen Disc. Now, re GD I lost interest long ago on posting to that forum, if I thought the issue/event I was posting about warrented serious consideration - as there are rather more air-heads (people who just don't want to have a sensible discussion about anything) on GD than to my own liking. Now, if I am posting something that isn't that serious, something laughable, sure I will post to GD but I preferred to use "Politics 2015" for more serious, 'grown-up' consideration/discussions.

I think it was a mistake to eliminate "Politics 2015" for those who want to discuss political events/issues but really are looking for a fairly serious (e.g. grown-up) consideration/discussion of issues/events posted about. Frankly, not haveing a place for serious discussion of political issues/events is killing DU.

Just my 'take' on it. I think DU would be better if we still had "Politics 2015" or something similar as a place for those who want to present/discuss issues and events in a reasonably serious manner.

[onehandle]

147. I said nothing like that. It's interesting that so many in this thread...

...automatically equate a difference of opinion with trolls and disrupters.

Very.

[RobertEarl]

188. Quote from reply #1:

onehandle: "DU being overrun with trolls and disrupters has nothing to do with politics."

That is a pretty clear statement that you think DU is being overrun with trolls and disrupters.

So, yeah, you said something like that. What I am saying is that you, onehandle, are claiming DU is being overrun with trolls and disrupters, and that you claim that because hardly anyone agrees with you when it comes to Hillary.

But now claim to have never said what you said. Weird, man, weird.

[onehandle]

195. You and others claimed that I was saying 'not agreeing' = troll and disrupters activity.

I said nothing like that.

And good fucking bye.

[roody]

52. Put them on ignore.

[notadmblnd]

64. Put them on ignore and not be able to call some one an asshole

or tell them to leave the thread and to shut up? Now what fun would that be?

[JDPriestly]

61. Who? People who disagree with one's presidential choice are not

necessarily trolls and disrupters.

I think a lot of people are disenchanted with DU because people with opinions and ideas that differ from those of the disenchanted are presenting persuasive arguments.

The discomfort is due to having to admit that our first choice may have been wrong and that we need to rethink our loyalties.

Dealing with conflict is always unpleasant. But if we humans did not deal with conflict, humanity would make no progress.

Fortunately, on DU, the conflict is all verbal and hopefully polite. But new ideas set off internal conflicts that can be really hard to deal with, internal in each of us, within ourselves.

New ideas are threatening to us. They make us feel attacked and vulnerable even though the new ideas are not really hurting us at all.

We feel secure when we just repeat our old ideas, when we fortify ourselves by encircling ourselves with people who agree with us.

We have to be willing to open up to new ideas. That is what a lot of people on DU are finding difficult.

Many thought they knew what candidate was the best and are now realizing still at a subconscious level, that the candidate they had picked really does not stand up to scrutiny.

That is painful.

If people want a life of miserable comfort rather than a life of creative challenge and the comfort that creativity and adopting new ideas provide, then so be it.

But I am sticking around.

Feel the Bern.

[Tommymac]

113. ^^^ This ^^^

[onehandle]

146. I said nothing even near that. You seem to be saying that.

Interesting.

[senz]

236. This is so deep that

I doubt the people who most need to read and understand it can do so without tremendous discomfort.

Perhaps what is needed is a simple willingness to allow others to think and feel differently from oneself.

[frylock]

77. The poster that spams the board with "scoreboard" posts of national polling..

complaining about disrupters is pretty amusing.

[onehandle]

148. That's what you think is disruption?

Is it only when you don't like the results of polls?

Interesting.

[frylock]

160. What other reason would there be to post national polling of a primary election..

other than to troll Sanders supporters? In any case, perhaps you could provide examples of some the disrupting you alluded to?

[still_one]

2. good advice

[merrily]

5. Don't conflate message boards with the Party or the voting booth.

[retrowire]

6. yeah i just corrected that broad statement. n/t

[Gormy Cuss]

8. +1

And this message board can do better at providing a civil, constructive forum for center-left Dems and progressives.

[AuntPatsy]

13. This

[closeupready]

9. Nah. When I use board tools like Ignore and Trash Thread, I have an enjoyable

time exchanging thoughts with like-minded Democrats and progressives.

Before those existed, then I DID on occasion think of leaving. Not now.

[retrowire]

12. you're doing it right. :) n/t

[randys1]

14. I like what you are saying, problem is the jury system cant work for everyone, only the majority

and the majority here have HUGE issues with race, for instance.

So if you are not white, or if you are white like me but constantly criticizing white people, well you simply wont last long here.

The real problem in America, in our party, in both parties, in our politics, is white men, mostly heterosexual, have had their way, a very violent and corrupt way, for far too long.

What you are seeing here at DU is a microcosm of what is happening across America.

The thought that DU was a refuge for liberal thinkers like myself, was a mistaken thought.

Yes, I am saying that almost all of the problems we are facing are directly due to white hetereosexual men fucking everything up for hundreds of years here and elsewhere.

[retrowire]

18. i too am a white male that agrees that the powers that be

are a group of heterosexual white males that have had power for too long.

but where did you get the idea that this was a refugee for liberal thinkers? I thought it was for all democratic mindsets.

I myself am liberal, and I've found plenty of like minded people here. I didn't have the expectation that it would only have liberals.

but I think it's better that way, its good that liberals can interact with centrists and vice versa, it creates great ideas if we work at it long enough.

[randys1]

21. The rule here is Democrats only, I am pretty sure. Now not all Democrats are liberals, and that

is something I am finding out more and more each day.

I dont care if only Dems or libs are here, what I care about is non liberals silencing liberals by using juries

[retrowire]

22. i read an idea about making those being judged anonymous.

I like that idea.

someone said you could get past that and see who it is with a google search but still, that's an extra step that assholes would have to make.

it would curb the abuse of the system at least.

[randys1]

28. Better than what we have now, for sure...What I would do is appoint mods, and the rule would be

only hide posts that are personal attacks that are over the top.

For instance I should be able to say to anyone here, as I have often wanted to, something like this:

"You dont act or talk like any liberal I know...you are constantly on the wrong side of race issues and Gay issues, and your overall attitude is very rightwing and very familiar to me from my experience on rightwing message boards"

Now I would like to say that to several people but NOT with the agenda of silencing them, just my way of telling them and everyone that this person is not here for the same reasons I am or most of you are.


Then they could say anything the want to me, as long as they dont disclose personal information or go over the top harsh ...

You see, nothing ANY con ANYWHERE on this planet would say to me or you, could be a problem because we are right, they are wrong. About everything. When left and right disagree, the left is always right.

Not complicated. We are on the right side of history, they are not. So nothing they say is a problem for me, the problem is when they can silence what I have to say.

[JDPriestly]

82. Avoid the accusatory and very personal "you."

The word you in English, as I have been pointing out a lot lately on DU has two meanings. It encompasses the meaning "one," "on" in French and "Mann" in German which is a general way of saying "a person" and "you" which has different forms, plural, singular in German and French. We could use "one" but somehow that has gone out of style. It would make our lives less confrontational. Oh, well. Sigh.

You said:

"You dont act or talk like any liberal I know...you are constantly on the wrong side of race issues and Gay issues, and your overall attitude is very rightwing and very familiar to me from my experience on rightwing message boards"

You can use the passive voice and say the same thing without personally insulting someone, without engaging their defenses. Here goes a try:

"Liberals I know don't act or talk that way . . .that kind of view is on the wrong side of race issues and Gay issues. That attitude is very rightwing and very familiar to me from my experience on rightwing message boards."

Just a suggestion. It often is not WHAT a person says but HOW THEY SAY IT that makes an idea personally insulting.

Plus, I think that when we get on a message board, we have to put on a sort of raincoat that lets all the nasty drops of whatever just run off to the ground. We have to put on our spiritual and psychological protection.

There are a few posters on DU who, I sense, do not have very much in the way of spiritual or psychological protection. They are very vulnerable and take everything personally. I am sorry about that. I try to watch out for a couple of them. And I really like many of them. But they tend to have bad days or lose it easily. I try to let them alone and not respond to ugly posts. Strong people have to help the weak and vulnerable. That goes for our conduct on DU as well as our conduct off DU.

In the end, my personal religious belief is that we are all one, each of us a different part of "life," and that we are more bound together than separate so we have to help each other.

Thanks.

[Bubzer]

232. Very true!

[JDPriestly]

234. But I looked up the posts that 1StrongBlackMan was

removed on, and I found one to be objectionable. The rest should not, in my opinion, have been removed.

He was one of the best, most intelligent DUers. I think that his forced departure is very unfortunate.

We are getting into vendetta territory here. We need to retreat from that and get back into heated but tolerant discussions.

[JDPriestly]

76. I usually try to see the entire thread so that I know the context

of the offending post. Often, the post that is tagged for a jury is really just one of a number of questionable posts.

I usually vote against (well I virtually always vote against) removing a post if I think that the post was the result of someone goading or teasing the person whose post is being judged.

I would like to be able to remove whole chains of exchanged insults. They usually move from the topic being discussed to personal jibes to out-of-hand, troubling insults or even mild threats.

I don't know what to do about that. But I don't want to remove one of a number of really ugly posts. It does not seem fair. The jury members should be able to go through and tag other posts for removal.

And the penalties for posting removed posts should be less severe. I think that a DUer should be barred from posting only after at least ten posts have been removed.

And someone suggested to me that someone who has two posts removed within 24 hours should be asked to take a 24-hour or so break and then be allowed to return.

I favor more inclusion, not less.

[retrowire]

97. totally agree. n/t

[seaglass]

99. That really does not help with civility at all. Alert on the other posts in the thread if you think

someone was the instigator and acting uncivil. There is no way of knowing while judging one post if there is another jury judging one of the others.

This is sentiment I have seen expressed over and over on DU and it is one of the reasons DU juries are such a fail.

[awoke_in_2003]

152. When we had moderation

You could delete entire subthreads if necessary

[MADem]

205. Often, though, the baby got tossed out with the bathwater.

Some very thoughtful and well written posts got tossed with the rest of the "offending" sub- threads.

If we returned to moderation I would prefer that posts continue to be hidden, not "disappeared."

[Bubzer]

233. +1

Posterity can be quite useful.

[awoke_in_2003]

239. I'd be fine with that

I think full time mods put much more thought into what they are doing than juries. Plus, moderators had better tools available to them- tracking posting and alerting history was easy to do. I know there were a few cases where posters were put on forced ignore because one would just not let the other one alone.

[Nitram]

47. There's not only one way to be a liberal.

I see some DUers putting up litmus tests for being a liberal candidate or a liberal voter. Let's leave that kind of exclusionary thinking to the GOP.

[randys1]

85. So if there are hundreds of right leaning, non liberal members here at a board dedicated

to democrats, and a democrat says something liberal, if the jury finds enough rightwingers to silence him, so be it?

Fuck that

[Nitram]

222. Is that what I said?

[notadmblnd]

81. How does one know how liberal or not liberal jury members are?

I think the jury system is as fair as it can be. I believe people are selected randomly and there are times that I disagree with the verdict. However, whining and crying incessantly that the system isn't fair is childish and immature. No one is forced to be here, no one is forced to pay to be here, so if one is unable to have a discussion without rudeness and name calling- then they need to pick up their toys and go play elsewhere.

[randys1]

84. sigh

[notadmblnd]

91. Is that your way of saying that you are unable explain it to me?

Or could it possibly be your way of telling me that I am too simple minded to understand if you did?

Because that post right there is a fine example of how the discourse here is usually escalated.

Which ever reason you replied with your "sigh" for, it was a slight and if you were not intending to slight me, the kindest thing you could have done- is simply not replied at all.

[bvar22]

134. They may have changed the rule,

but when I joined it was a board for "Liberals of all Stripes",
and the only prohibition was campaigning for 3rd Party Candidates during an election.

[Divernan]

50. And women who feel driven to out-macho the white heterosexual men?

[randys1]

83. Oy, it NEVER stops

[awoke_in_2003]

155. Just come out and say it

or do you not want the hide?

[Lisa D]

223. What does that even mean?

[JDPriestly]

67. The jury system is a problem.

I think a DUer should have to have at least 10 hides before being dismissed from DU.

Someone suggested to me that we have a cooling off period for anyone who has more than 2 posts removed within 24 hours. Say a 24-hour cooling off period.

I try my best to set aside differences of opinion when acting as a judge on a jury.

And recently, just yesterday I think, I simply refused to be on a jury because I did not feel I had enough understanding of the topic of the thread and post in question which had to do with transgender issues. I just don't have the experience to judge the value of an opinion or post on that topic. I don't have a problem with transgender people. I am not very visual in my approach to life and I often don't recognize that a transgender person is trans, so I'm kind of not the person to have an opinion on that issue.

So refusing to serve on a jury if you think you cannot judge fairly is also an alternative.

Plus I often think that we should be able to remove an entire series of responses that escalate into an exchange of insults if we wish.

I agree that the jury system is sometimes just an excuse to get rid of voices we do not want to hear.

So thanks for your post.

[awoke_in_2003]

142. I was going to stop serving on juries

but decided that left a slot open for the people described. It gets tiring, but we have to stick around.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

201. When on a jury,

I almost always vote "leave it alone," unless it is overtly racist, etc.

[awoke_in_2003]

202. I tend to lean that way, unless blatant

I like to look at the whole thread first to get some context. Three terms as a moderator makes you realize context means everything

[kiva]

167. Perhaps there is a reason for your difficulties with some posters.

"the majority here have HUGE issues with race"

"if you are white like me but constantly criticizing white people"

Thinking that other people are always wrong and that you are always right...well, that seems to be the sort of thing you are criticizing about people that disagree with you.

[randys1]

227. There is right and wrong on race, period. I know where I stand.

[mmonk]

15. Everytime I announce I'm going to leave, don't listen to me.

I always end up back.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

200. +1 n/t

[L0oniX]

235. That's it! I am leaving right now ...damn it all.

Be back in a few ...have to get something to drink.

[mmonk]

240. Ahhhh. You're onto me.

[Starry Messenger]

16. I have been here for 10 years.

10 years we have informed the owners of this website that minority voices get overwhelmed here. Blacks, Gays, Feminist women, people who post in other languages--have all been muffled by the system of this website. Going back years. You can go to DU2 and go through the old subforums and see all the people who were tombstoned or left.

It's time for the majority to fight for us. We have been here in the trenches, and practically nothing has been reformed. If you want our voices here, fight for us to be heard.

Someone took their spleen to real life and threatened a Black DUer, by mail, a federal crime. This isn't just board fuckery, it is real life. That's old tactics going back to the FBI mailing MLKjr to tell him to kill himself, and other terrorist tactics.

The message that sends, is shut up, shut up your friends, or we will make you all shut up.

[retrowire]

20. keep fighting. don't give up. otherwise they win. n/t

[TBF]

23. I am with Starry on this -

she and I may support different candidates at the primary stage but I know we are overall on the same page. This breach of security is unacceptable. I expect to hear from the admins on this or I will leave and I'm sure many others will as well. Or they will simply read and no longer contribute (with voices or donations).

This doesn't change how I feel about Bernie and I will of course be working for him via donations and local. But none of us need DU to do that. When it comes to our personal safety being threatened they've crossed a line - no matter which side of the aisle they are standing on politically.

[TBF]

30. I think that is something only the admins

can determine because posting the envelope with Bravenak's name, address, and postmark is not going to happen. However, Bravenak could give that info to Skinner if she chose. I don't know how something like this is handled - perhaps she needs to contact her local police department. That is what I would do if I received hate mail via regular snail mail.

[LittleBlue]

78. How in the world did someone get her home address from DU?

Someone please explain how this happened.

[Starry Messenger]

31. Real what?

It was really sent to her house by post. If you still can't see the images because of your web browser, it is going to be hard for you to understand, so you'd probably better fix your settings. It is on paper, with a mail cancellation from the post office and everything.

[cwydro]

58. It's a real letter I have no doubt,

but I don't necessarily believe it was sent by a DUer.

If the cavers are behind this, and they have done this type thing before, they must be laughing their asses off at all the accusations flying around here.

[bettyellen]

41. are you implying Braveneck faked the letter? It would seem so.

WOW.

[Starry Messenger]

26. +1000

[Starry Messenger]

25. They did win.

[retrowire]

27. you're still here aren't you?

those who've been silenced can make new accounts and come back can't they?

[Starry Messenger]

32. I'm leaving a message so people know why we are leaving, in case they care.

[Squinch]

151. They (you) win WHAT?? Yes, I'm leaving, but no, you haven't won much.

They (including you)have won the ability to post your musings, unchallenged, in the echo chamber of this very small and insignificant sliver of the world, namely white males, mostly supporters of Bernie, who more and more often, are extremely nasty.

I am a white woman who likes Bernie, and I can't stand what I am seeing here.

This has become a place in which the experiences of anyone who is not a white man (including Bravenak's experience) is discounted by the majority (including you specifically in this thread in which you say that you think Bravenak faked the letter) and lots of other white guys high five each other for having discounted those experiences.

Yeah. Winning. Have fun with that.

[retrowire]

153. If you think this is an "us vs them" scenario, then that's your weakness. We're equals in my eyes.

I'm sorry you see me as an enemy.

[Squinch]

159. Something terrible happened to a person who posts here. You have pooh-poohed it and discounted it.

That kind of discounting is habitual here and that behavior leads to an us vs. them scenario. It has nothing to do with whether I am weak or strong.

I'm sorry you can't see that your behavior is part of what has created this problem.

[retrowire]

162. So, being a skeptic who doesn't take things at face value makes me the problem?

Listen, if the letter is real, then I pray for bravenak's safety, I truly do. If it isn't (which is always a possibility. I don't like the fear that it's instilled in our community. And in politics, things like that can be faked, but they can be real.) real, then I just guess that's part of DU's political maelstrom.

We can let the subject of the letter be a divisive thing, OR, we could agree to disagree. In the end, as long as bravenak does what is best for her safety, as long as we all are vigilant to continue with our daily lives, then the letter doesn't matter and we'll carry on as we always do.

I'm not letting a letter divide me from other people, I'm not letting it scare me from the damn internet.

So your choice is yours, does the letter divide you from we the people? Or does it embolden you to find resolve?

[Squinch]

169. No, you're not going to let a letter divide you from other people...you're just going to accuse the

receiver of faking the letter. Do you hear yourself? I guess in your world that isn't a divisive thing to do. In my world it is.

"Embolden you to find resolve"? What are you even talking about? The fact that some creep sent a creepy letter to someone I respect because she dares to post on DU as a black woman is supposed to embolden me to find resolve to continue posting here??

Yeah. No. It doesn't embolden me to find resolve.

[retrowire]

170. The letter is real, or not. That's my final position. n/t

[Squinch]

171. You've accused her of faking it all over this thread. THAT's your final position.

[retrowire]

173. Thanks for speaking for me.

Last I checked, I was in control of what my final position was.

For example, if I ended this very sentence with the phrase that I believed the letter, THAT would be my final position.

Not what is all over this thread. I did not ever accuse her of making it either. Just said it was possibly fake. As in, the letter is bogus and intends no real threat?

Either way, I decide my final position and honestly it's indifference. I don't care to talk about it. Truth is, and again, I'll say it AGAIN...

If it's real, I pray for her safety, if not then I guess that's just the nature of this political beast.

[Squinch]

174. Oh, you've spoken for yourself just fine. I think we all know exactly what you are saying.

[retrowire]

175. New final position.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/118725126#post47

A second letter is odd. It's really hard to call, but it's getting to be too much.

The letter is likely real.

But it won't deter me from encouraging people to stay here, and fight.

[Squinch]

176. Gosh, we've all been waiting with baited breath for you to come around.

Imagine our relief.

[retrowire]

177. I'm glad you're relieved.

It did seem extremely important to you that I accept the reality of the letter. lol

Either way, stay safe and I wish you well. No hard feelings, I hope.

[Squinch]

178. I am appalled at the way Bravenak is being treated around this, and you are one of the

ones who has added to the problem. I have no plans to lol over this with you.

[retrowire]

179. no skin off my back. stay cool. n/t

[chervilant]

218. I feel as you do,

and I am disgusted with the "skeptics" who discount and "justify" insupportable positions about the isms we see here -- especially the racism, sexism and heterosexism.

(I have made an appropriate addition to my IL...)

[ancianita]

51. Yes, it is time. Been time. Homework time.

[YoungDemCA]

53. +10000.

Well said, and agreed entirely.

[hfojvt]

57. I doubt if that was a federal crime

at least I don't see it.

The DUer was threatened? Threatened with what?

The big threat was "we will jury stalk you and put you on time out in DU".

that's about as threatening as saying "we will call you a doodoo head".

I mean what, is a person going to hire bodyguards to protect themselves from being put on timeout on DU? Maybe go into witness protection? It's not a significant threat at all.

The really freaky part is, since, unlike William Pitt, she does not post here under her real name, well how does anybody know where she lives? How did this person learn her real name? Only Agent Mike should know that. Would former mods have that information? Has she, like me, posted her real name before? Met other DUers at meet-ups?

The other freaky part is the idea that there is somebody so deranged as to think a letter like that was a good idea.

I have a hard time believing it is real, from a real Bernie supporter on DU. Even the average Trump supporter is not THAT ridiculous.

[KentuckyWoman]

186. I'm on the other end of the spectrum

I've been around a few years - not many. Don't post much since my life is usually too full to have time to come by but also because there are so many threads I simply don't feel comfortable speaking my mind.

Impressions are subjective of course but what I've seen is that inflammatory posts that fat shame, belittle people (especially conservative women) for the way they look, are anti white people, anti church, anti business are mostly allowed to stand and if anyone replies with anything less than a high five it's like smacking a hornet's nest.

I've lost count of how many times I've started to leave a reply to a thread that is intended to be a reasoned thoughtful addition to the conversation and ended up not posting because it just didn't seem worth the inevitable flame war to follow. Sure enough, someone else hits the thread to say something close to what I was thinking and gets hosed for not high fiving.

Like I said, I'm relatively new but this is my impression of the current situation. I expect to get absolutely reamed for posting this. But I like the DU. A lot. If it times past people speaking the minority position were getting muffled that's just wrong. If my impression is correct and the pendulum has swung the opposite way then that's wrong too.

My sister, DUer SmileyRose loved this place. She learned a lot and it kept her sane during the last years of her life when she was in a lot of pain with one cancer after the next up until her death. When she didn't have the energy anymore she asked me to create a login and keep her posted on what I saw here. I was hooked.

Anyways, in the round about way I guess I'm saying I agree with you on the big picture. This can be a really good place to share info and support each other in common cause even if we quabble about the smaller things. Muffling speech is not helpful in that regard.

[Waiting For Everyman]

212. I hope

you'll resist the impulse to delete, and post more often. I am very taken with this post. Just two cents but you can always ignore the inevitable flame war to follow, that's what I do. Let it blow on by and just don't answer the snark etc. Nothing says you have to.

I wasn't lucky enough to know your sister well, but I did know her name, and how much she was loved around here.

[Lisa D]

224. +1000

[geardaddy]

226. This.

[PasadenaTrudy]

17. When is/was the world NOT falling apart? n/t

[Freelancer]

36. People were pretty upbeat before that whole Crimean War thing. <G> -nt

[dorkzilla]

43. *snort*

I have on my hutch a Staffordshire portrait figure of Sir William Fenwick Williams. He asked me to thank you for that chuckle.

[erronis]

29. I realize I'm coming at this from a "data" viewpoint

Can we have some simple statistics/graphs about who has posted what to which threads?

Altho I'm very wet behind the ears, I can sorta identify certain ids with a certain POV. I'm sure that many people/bots take on multiple ids and styles to avoid being caught. And I'd hope that the DU administrators are already doing some semantic analyses of who is answering what in a particular fashion.

I'm no advocate of big brother but I'm sure that other organizations are gaming the DU board.

[JustAnotherGen]

33. I was just invited to another board

And I may very well join after the Primary Season!

[mountain grammy]

70. I'm staying, but if you go, JAG,

please tell me where and I'll follow. I would really miss you.

[JustAnotherGen]

124. Thank you mg

[lark]

34. Thanks for this.

I, for one, am staying, fighting at times and holding hands at others. Yes, there are aggravating trolls, this is what rw'ers do, however there are so many good souls here, I overlook the rotten apples. I learn so much here.

We all have our pet peeves and differences, but the Democratic party has always been the "big tent" and I'd hate to see it any other way.

[Freelancer]

35. Most people are immovable, impenetrable & impervious. Why lean against immovable objects?

It's just no fun. I've written a lot here, but the only fun I've had is arguing over original Star Trek vs Next Generation. Why is that?

I just dunno.

[gregcrawford]

38. Well said.

[dorkzilla]

40. Good post, retrowire!

See, you’re fairly new and you’ve already added so much to the “conversation” by being here.

I’ve always learned a lot from people with differing opinions, different life experiences etc. Maybe those people with differing opinions haven’t changed my mind, but I agree with the echo chamber effect and that’s whats happened to people who only listen to RW-radio or Fox News. I love that we don’t march lock-step like some other party who shall remain nameless.

[Helen Borg]

42. Nobody is leaving...

Like nobody is not gonna watch the next season of Game of Thrones. It's addictive.

[meaculpa2011]

44. I'm leaving...

but my only question is: How do I delete my account so that there is no record of my having been here?

[dembotoz]

48. yep that is real easy on these internets

[ms liberty]

187. If you get tombstoned, you'd become "name removed"

"name removed" has a lot of posts with no text. (A little levity, here...)

[ancianita]

45. Good advice. DU is a good place to hash out all that can't be hashed out with family or friends.

Just a few quick echoes...

DU is the place where relevant news -- not fluff -- can enrich your thinking and overall enjoyment of living. There's as much fun (the DU Lounge, the small personal interest groups, etc.) as you want here as well as politics.

As for the Big Threads, the verbal sparring is what the best of democracy is about.

The mudslinging and personal attacks are the bad discourse which are useful, cautionary tales of how not to be.

Many who've been politically asleep for decades have learned the hard way to never walk away.

Every withdrawal costs this country and those who withdraw.

DU saved my sanity when, in 2007, media could not. It will save yours, too, in ways that might surprise you.

[retrowire]

59. well said! n/t

[marble falls]

46. This stuff has gone on here for years and will go on for years. Give it no nevermind.

[liberal N proud]

49. You can check out anytime you want, but you can never leave...

[saidsimplesimon]

229. "On a dark desert highway..." great tune, thanks

It's wonderful to read comments that celebrate our diversity, while recognizing we stand together on the majority of issues.

[world wide wally]

55. The only thing we have to fear is….

You know the rest!

[Android3.14]

63. A calm voice in the storm calling for all hands on deck

Thanks.

[George II]

66. Tried the "stay, learn, teach, and "fight" " route - although trying not to really fight.

The problem is that I've been a member here for almost 10 years, and had my first two "hides" in July of this year because I had the chutzpah to question the Sanders campaign. Those two hides were within an hour or two of each other.

So, I've significantly cut back on my posts and visits here because I don't want to see things posted that I disagree with but can't comment upon in fear of being swarmed upon with alerts. I've stepped up a couple of times (most recently a few minutes ago) but for the most part have decided to be silent, at least until early next year.

[hamsterjill]

68. I try to remember that this is a message board.

DU is a part of my internet activities. I come here for information, for news, for sharing of likeminded opinions, etc. I used to come here to learn, but I don't feel the level of discussion here at this time is the same as it was several years ago, so I'm not sure I've learned anything of late, except that there are a few really childish posters on here. If you don't agree with the opinions that those posters have - watch out!

I've been here officially since 2004, lurked since DU's inception. I have around 6,000 posts. So I'm not obsessed with DU.

That said, I ignore people who are nasty to me, and I get off of DU and go about my real life.

[DonCoquixote]

69. If I may offer my two cents

Part of why sleaze prospers is because they know that, even if you heal the wounds, sooner or later, your body tells your brain "Jeesh, it is not worth it, we have to get out of here before we get a stroke!"

I say, please, let's not give this over to the bad guys, and yes, I do not care where said sleaze is a sincere clinton/sanders/socialist/centrist/anarchist insert affiliation here, when the sleaze says "I do not care who I have to hurt or how I have to do it" then they are a discredit to their cause, and someone that will indeed, reap the whirlwind, because in time, the very people they need to survive will either be too afraid to offer food and aid, or simply think they can take their place. As far as the outright paid ops, we cannot pretend they are not there: one trip to Freeperland or DI will show these people lighting cigars and pouring champagne while stitching their sock puppets.

I do not care what you think, feel, or believe, I care what you DO. There are many people who frankly, I should be politically at war with, but because they have been kind and willing to listen, they are the people I fight for on DU. Likewise, politically, I should be a Sanders supporter, but seeing the yes, outright RACIST behavior that has been shown because of some activists in Seattle is DISGUSTING. I wish Bernie would return every cent you gave him, because of he knew who some of his supporters were, I think he would, as well as give a fine jeremiad castigating them for attitudes.

But the key thing is to DO, to make sure that the cranks and bullies and "ratf**ers" do NOT run the show, because unless people make a stand, they will. Our goal should be to be the ones who survive, so when all the "idealists" and "pragmatists" are floating on their little bit of flotsam, we will stand together on our raft, but this time, we will make it VERY clear that whoever we let onto the boat does NOT try to become captain. The left, right and center all have plenty of people who have allowed their ideals to sink because they want to WIN, well, they win battles, but it is those of us that no matter what, actually care for others, and our own integrity, that survive wars.

[DonCoquixote]

73. PS: sleaze

the term comes from Sileseia, now part of Poland. It was known for making the best silks outside of China, but so many knock offs happened, silk was called "silesi". This foits because the would be warriors are nothing but cheap kick offs trying to appear to be precious.

[brooklynite]

71. Never bothers me...

...I can take whatever insults people want to dish out; I'm able to remember that there's a real world outside of the blogosphere.

[HuckleB]

72. I'm not planning on going anywhere, but...

... the reality is that DU's majority reflects mainstream upper middle-class Democrats, who sometimes can see what should be done, but seldom do so. And the bigger issue is they refuse to challenge their preconceptions. It's really not a progressive mindset.

[Sheldon Cooper]

74. It's been clear to me since I joined that this is a board for white men, and so long as your

interests align with theirs, everything will be fine. If they don't, then you are the one with the problem. It's counterproductive to exhort those being oppressed to stay and fight, when it's quite clear who's in charge.

You really need to address the ones who are driving people away - THEY are the ones "weakening the party".

[lib87]

228. I Wish I Could Favorite Your Post

I also love how the onus is always on the oppressed minority group to fight and change the hearts and minds of the majority.

[captainarizona]

75. leaving no banned hope not

I am a politically aggressive lefty so I worry about being banned. It would not occur to me to leave the fight against evil republicans. Most liberals are not like me they want to be reasonable with the unreasonable republicans and shame those who have no shame. They prefer conflict resolution to conflict. I accept that from them and hope they will accept me.

[Waiting For Everyman]

79. Especially seeing as how this latest incident probably isn't even real.

Ask yourself this: is there ANY Sanders supporter who is likely to be STUPID enough not to realize and expect and KNOW ahead of time that the person receiving the letter would MOST CERTAINLY post such a letter on DU? What Sanders supporter would not see that coming? NONE! Given that, why would a real Sanders supporter direct responsibility for it back to him/herself? Wouldn't they put it on anyone else instead? Put yourself in the hypothetical sender's shoes for a second, would YOU send a threatening letter to someone and ID it with your real group identity?

Knowing that it would be posted on DU, who would go, "I'm a Sanders supporter and I'm threatening a black woman"???? Who is that dumb? Nobody is. This is what tells us definitely that it was NOT a Sanders supporter. That's pretty easy to figure out.

Also, why would some disgruntled DUer send something like that now, when the person he/she's sending it to hasn't had a visible presence on DU for sometime now, weeks maybe? Why wait till now? Is a disgruntled Sanders supporter more likely sitting back and stewing over some remark made weeks ago, or is the person who is currently on a time out more likely sitting back and impatiently stewing over a way to get more attention and some revenge.

And who benefits the most from this? 1) threads of support; 2) discredit on Sanders supporters; 3) more friction between races; 4) persecution no longer debated but a foregone conclusion. I see a payoff there. It wouldn't be hard to create that frame. Simple.

I'm sorry, that just doesn't fly. This is most likely a backwards B scenario. It's least likely a Sanders supporter for the reason stated above. Doesn't add up.

[retrowire]

86. I'm a sanders supporter

and I'll answer your first question.

yes, a Bernie supporter can be that stupid. anyone could. do you really think all Bernie supporters are like minded geniuses?

[Waiting For Everyman]

88. I don't think anybody would not foresee that getting posted.

Anybody who has had, or even read, one exhange with the person in question would know that anything usable would get posted. Restraint is not a word that comes to mind.

[retrowire]

90. but someone said there's photo proof

of something from the USPS proving she received it as a real letter. I was skeptical myself but that may be the evidence you seek. ask starrymessenger.

I admit, I still remain somewhat skeptical of the letter but I will say that people are being unfairly targeted.

[Waiting For Everyman]

94. It isn't hard

to send a letter to someone (family or friend?) in a larger envelope, and have it mailed back to you.

[retrowire]

96. good point.

I remain skeptical and with this post I officially wash my hands of that subject.

I care about those users that have been alert targeted and silenced but my opinion on the letter is up in the air so, I won't talk about that any longer.

if its real, I pray for another users safety. if its fake, welp, that's how the game is played in politics isn't it?

[Waiting For Everyman]

104. I agree. n/t

[840high]

199. Agree.

[boston bean]

163. The sender sent two letters. Realizing he had written the wrong address on one.

I've seen the envelopes. Go educate yourself and read some threads in the AA forum, but do all a favor and refrain from posting you think the receiver sent them to herself from St. Petersburg when she lives in freaking a whole continent away!

[boston bean]

161. The person who did is probably high fiving his wonderfulself this very moment.

Happy it's been posted. That is what lunatics do.

think your conspiracy has about as many holes as swiss cheese.

[Fumesucker]

89. Sorry, logic has absolutely no place in this discussion

[Waiting For Everyman]

100. You're welcome.

[840high]

105. This was a very

juvenile effort to attack Sanders supporters hoping it discourages people from supporting Bernie.

[Waiting For Everyman]

117. Agree.

It's too "neat" and ties right in to the pre-existing constructed meme of the big bad Sanders supporters vs. the black woman.

[Doctor_J]

135. yep. false flag operation. not a very good one either

But people who want to believe something won't be dissuaded. I continue to be amazed that the "Sanders is a racist" meme actually caught on. The marketing has been ingeniously diabolical.

[840high]

137. Makes me feel so sad. Sanders is

such a good, decent man who would fight for fairness for all.

[gollygee]

110. That's ridiculous

There have been some Sanders supporters going after her here, saying similar things. It's ridiculous to think there's some jedi mind trick going on here.

There are horrible people among the voters of every single candidate in the world. Even the most wonderful candidate ever is going to pick up a few nasty, mean supporters.

[Waiting For Everyman]

115. Not jedi, pretty simplistic actually.

I agree with your second thought.

[Fumesucker]

141. Nasty and mean is one thing, stupid is another

If it was actually the poster whose name was on the letter who sent it then that's one of the dumbest tricks I've heard of in some time.

Whoever sent it for whatever purpose they were certainly nasty and mean and more than likely underhanded as well, it goes along with the first two character traits more often than not.

[gollygee]

168. I doubt the person's user name is Mr. Citizen

But IMO it probably is a DUer and it probably is a misguided and maybe very immature Sanders supporter. There have been DU Sanders supporters saying just those same kinds of things to her. I don't think it's that complicated. Some DU Sanders supporter is really upset by her, searched around to find her home address, and sent her a letter.

I know most Sanders supporters would never do that. I plan to vote for Sanders myself. But I do think that it's just what it looks like on the surface.

[Purveyor]

121. I'm quite skeptical of this "letter" myself. Just doesn't

pass the smell test, IMO

[boston bean]

156. A fucking lunatic would.

Your conspiracy theory ought to get you booted from this website. Intimating some one is spoofing (who possibly the receiver of the letter to get some pay back?)

Likely scenario is a Bernie Supporter sent the letter and has intimate knowledge of DU and many of the phrases and knowledge of history we see posted here day in and day out by those supporters.

[Waiting For Everyman]

203. It was posted publicly on this site,

and I have a right to my opinion about it. And if you don't like that, tough toenails.

[questionseverything]

185. when i read the letter i thought the same thing

it is possible it was an incredibly stupid sanders supporter but more likely it was from another campaign or even the repubs

the 1% have got to be happy with all this division among dems

[LiberalArkie]

190. I would like to point out to everyone that I did a search through a search engine. I came up with

everything I needed within 3 minutes to have her name, address, childs picture, and telephone number. Yes someone could get all the information they needed, they just needed to be pissed off to print off the letters (looked like inkjet as they were folded before being dry).

[joshcryer]

208. Yeah, no, the way BLM was treated here...

...and on other sites (like Reddit) tells me that there is an under currant with certain types of people. Rather than say it's not possible I say it's possible and likely. But I don't consider those types Sanders supporters. They're just vindictive anti-social types.

[salib]

80. Yes, leaving DU would be a mistake for me.

But what has happened to Bravenak, that also must addressed and should not be dismissed as that's "politics".

Yes, this is the good fight, but a critical part of that fight is the medium and the environment.

[Bill USA]

87. I don't understand eliminating "Politics 2015". THis leaves pretty much only Gen Disc for political

comments that are not specifically about Dem primaries.

I am not enthusiastic about posting to GD as there are rather more air-heads on this forum than to my tolerance level. If I am posting something that I think deserves some serious consideration/discussion I am not that enthusiastic about posting it on GD just to see idiots post comments that really don't add anything to a meaningful discussion of the event or issue.


That leaves Good Reads as the only place to post something deserving serious consideration. But I prefer to leave GR for only those extra significant events or articles, otherwise GD will start to get too filled up with posts on matters that are worthy of serious discussion but do not actually rank as particularly noteworthy or singularly important articles or issues worthy of serious discussion.

For this reason I have become somewhat less interested in what's being discussed, and less motivated to post on DU.

[Rex]

95. Didn't you know? You can checkout anytime you want, but you can never leave. nt

nt

[Marty McGraw]

237. But Some Will Always Try

[DemocratSinceBirth]

98. When stalkers are invading people's privacy...

When stalkers are invading people's privacy, getting their addresses, and sending them threatening letters maybe it's time for them to leave, if not for the safety than for the safety of their loved ones:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/118724750

[retrowire]

101. what if the purpose of that letter is to only scare people? n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

106. A prudent person would be scared if people who could conceivably harm them had their address.

eom

[retrowire]

107. would a brave person be considered a fool then? n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

112. No matter how brave a person is he or she can't protect him or herself from threats they can't see.

eom

[retrowire]

164. Then I guess I'm a fool.

And what the heck does eom mean? I see it everywhere.

Also, we're all threatened by something greater everyday. Do NOT let fear guide your decisions.

...I don't know. Maybe I'm too damn hopeful. Maybe I like people too much. I just want everyone to stick with it. We have a greater cause. There are certainly dissenters within us who seek to rattle everything and shake the very thing we built, but damn it, why leave and let them win?

I don't want anyone to leave. I don't want anyone to be afraid.

[Juicy_Bellows]

183. End of message amigo! Nt.

[retrowire]

184. Thanks! ....eom

[vlyons]

102. I just got blocked from the African American group

I posted what I thought was a pretty innocuous message about not being afraid of DU, and tolerating opinions different than one's on. And for that I got blocked? Jeepers! What a bunch of hyper-sensitive folks, or at least the one is, who blocked me. I'm not leaving DU. You can write and reply whatever you like. Your opinions don't "hurt" me, because they're just opinions, just thinking.

People, who brag about disrupting the jury process are just braggarts. Some people brag about a lot of stuff. Bragging doesn't make it so. Trump brags about a lot of stuff. Doesn't make it so, does it? You can see the thread at http://www.democraticunderground.com/118724818

Get a grip people. It's political silly season.

[840high]

108. Don't feel bad. Par for the course.

[nomorenomore08]

181. There's having an opinion, and then there's being a jerk about it.

Also the fact that standards for posting are typically stricter in designated groups than in GD.

I suppose it's easy enough to run afoul of A or B, or both.

[Number23]

209. I sure hope you're right about that.

[MADem]

114. You deserved it, too. Your message was mocking, not innocuous.

Did you miss this bit, garnishing the OP?

************** For the African American Group *********************************

Perhaps you're unclear re: how many black voices have been silenced here, by agenda-laden jurors?

Your snark was obvious and unappreciated, and the response to it was entirely appropriate.

[leftofcool]

129. No, you got blocked for more than that and you know it.

[vlyons]

193. No, actually I don't

and it just proves my impression that some folks have a low tolerance to hear an opinion that differs from their own. If someone complains about not having a fair opportunity to express an opinion, and then blocks those whose opinions are disliked, that's called hypocracy. What a bunch of phonies.

[mcar]

143. Innocuous?

I disagree. Your post was mocking and trivializing. You deserved the block.

Nice try at changing history though.

[NuclearDem]

149. Certain AA posters don't feel safe here anymore

because some asshole sent one of them a threatening letter through the USPS.

It had nothing to do with fucking different opinions. Jesus.

[MADem]

103. Learn? Learn what? That the troll to DUer ratio is approaching ten to one?

That people will put "their" candidate over civility to people they've interacted with for a decade and a half?

This is Fight Club on the internet now. It's slightly more literate than YAHOO....but only just.


I think Skinner's little experiment has played out. It's a shame, really.

[blackspade]

111. I'm still thinking about it.

This place has become toxic to civil conversation.
With the alert stalking and real life stalking on top of this it's hard to make excuses to stay.

[cwydro]

116. Nope, I'm not thinking about leaving DU.

I've been here 10 years, and I've seen a lot of tempests.

[retrowire]

118. good to hear! n/t

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

119. I'm outta here fuckers!

I'll be back in hour.



.

[840high]

138. I left to get groceries. Did you miss me?

[PowerToThePeople]

120. I have had to take breaks from here

Sometimes in the past, this place got too right wing for my liking.

When Discussionist openned, I used it as sort of a gettaway spot. At least there you know there are right wingers. Here there should not be, per the board terms of services.

Bernie has livened up the left on this board, it is not the DU of 2014 anymore.

Good thread.

[leftofcool]

123. No thanks. Keep Bernie Underground. No one gives a rat's butt!

[Autumn]

140. Anyone who posts here must give a rat's butt... Or a rats ass

[bvar22]

126. I'll be the last one here.

If I don't earn a granite cookie first,
I'll turn out the lights when everyone else leaves.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

127. Rest assured, I serve on a lot of juries....

Oh wait,....that's not that reassuring....

Forget I said anything.

Carry on.

[yuiyoshida]

128. AsahinaKimi is not on as much...

I miss her.. we don't see each other that much either, now she has a job with the VA administration.

[Liberal Jesus Freak]

131. I have loved DU for over ten years.

I'm a low-poster but I read all the time. Don't plan on going anywhere but I will be glad when it's this time next year and we are all focused on the same candidate! In the meantime you are ALL guilty of educating me...thanks

[Warpy]

132. No, damn it! They'll have to THROW ME OFF

and since I've taken on the word warriors and other concern trolls, that day is likely coming.

[Faux pas]

133. Humans are the most dangerous when

emotions are involved. Sad thing is, politics are all about emotions. The 99% are emotional because every day is a struggle for survival. The 99% are emotional because money is more important than any living thing to the 1%. You start f-ing with everything the 99% needs to attain life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, they're going to be emotional. Emotions lead to revolutions.

I've said stupid things in my real life and my DU life. I'm not perfect, are you? My way to survive the political hell we'll be living until Nov 2016 is:

1. Confining myself to only responding to those I agree with and non political threads.

2. Not responding to obvious (master)baiters.

3. Trashing threads I find offensive. I hit the 'trash this thread' button with my middle finger.

4. When needed I chant my peace, love and joy mantra as many times as needed until the emotion passes.


How's everybody else surviving?

[retrowire]

136. I'm gonna follow your lead! n/t

[Faux pas]

219. Let me know how it goes

k?

[AOR]

139. If people don't stop alerting on everything that offends their delicate sensibilities...

there won't be anyone left to leave. The place is bare bones now -and has been for some time- for anything resembling in-depth discussion on the real suffering for millions happening on the ground. Everything is about personalities and identities at DU in its current incarnation. Posters and lurkers will only put up with that shit for so long before they go elsewhere.

[retrowire]

154. True. n/t

[Historic NY]

180. No swhit every litle butt hyrt..........

they need to grow up and learn that its a rough and tumble world. I keep hearing FDR ..etc.. mentioned he would have chew these political neophyte sup like candy.
They stand out like beacons running up "thousands" of posts in a few months of membership - multi-post in several groups before they begin to serves on juries. We used to serve pizza here. The day after election day they will disappear like locusts, they always do.

[Kaleva]

144. Each individual DUer sets their own temp in the kitchen

By choosing to skip the argumentative threads, DU remains a rather mellow place where one can engage in many interesting conversations or just read.

[retrowire]

158. This is a good way to put it.

I'm told by some that if I were black or a Hillary supporter, that I would have been alerted into oblivion because of this thread.

Do you think this is true? Because though my message is one of "let's stick together" I'm told again, that if I were black or a Hillary supporter, that I'd be attacked for this. Do you think it's true?

[ileus]

157. I've hung in here against the trolls this long.....I plan on being here for good.

[Gloria]

182. If I can't post in my chosen Group without being hidden because I am

targeted by trolls, what's the point of DU?? No way to respond in the thread...just blocked? WOW..

Like a purge going on...

[NanceGreggs]

189. "And you don't make the best decisions in an echo chamber ..."

Given that 80% to 85% of DUers are Bernie supporters, THIS IS AN ECHO CHAMBER.

"Hillary supporters, you're upset that this is feeling like Bernie Underground? You can either accept that the majority of your party is following Bernie on DU ..."

And yet again, there is the proof that DU has become an echo chamber for BS supporters, as it is in no way reflective of the Party as a whole. BS does not have the support of the "the majority of the party" in RL - only here in the echo chamber that DU has become.

"Don't weaken our party by leaving."

You've got to be kiddin' me. DU has absolutely nothing to do with "the Party", and one's participation here has no impact whatsoever on that Party. In fact, I doubt that even 50% of the regular posters here are Democrats.

Stay? Fight? WHY? The BSers can have DU - it's all theirs. Exactly what part of "we non-BSers don't give a flyin' fuck what happens to DU" do you not understand?

I've been here for ten years, and I wish DU was worth fighting for. But it's not. And it hasn't been for a very long time.

[retrowire]

191. Oh alright then.

But it's not an echo chamber.

Because I have an interaction with a Hillary supporter, every freaking day.

And yes, it weakens the website/party by leaving.

For example, this website is the ONLY place I do political conversation. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Stay, fight, why? Because that's the only thing that changes anything.

Go ahead and leave if you really intend to, but that changes nothing here.

Then again, you state you don't care about this place. If that's the case then... Well... Oh well!

[NanceGreggs]

194. "Go ahead and leave if you really intend to ...

... but that changes nothing here."

Now you're catching on. No matter who stays here or who leaves, nothing really changes.

And the Democratic Party will somehow survive whether DU changes or doesn't.

Imagine that.

[840high]

198. Then why are you here?

[Capt. Obvious]

225. "I wish DU was worth fighting for. But it's not."

You usually use a lot more words to say that.

[Rockyj]

197. What a BUNCH of DRAMA, DRAMA, DRAMA...

Are there any adults here? Just high school kids? Go figure!

[onecent]

206. The only problem with DU these last few years is our right to "FREEDOM OF SPEECH"..there

are guard dogs following our every word, and the juries are full of the hecklers, so i say many are going
to be leaving the closer we get to the end of the campaign trail.

We will NEVER all agree to the same person....but our rights to disagree have been tampered with.

[raven mad]

207. I so remember 2004...................

and I was a lurker.

We are all Dems, and gotta stick to it.

[olddots]

210. I'm still waiting for my free toaster oven

Since 2003 .

[Liberal_in_LA]

211. such a wise post

[PJMcK]

213. To the OP's question

Nope. Never.

[barbtries]

214. i'm thinking about leaving DU.

i don't even call it "the" DU, i'm out of touch. DU is not so much teaching me these days; it's more like going to a playground where the kids are beating up on each other relentlessly.
the thing is i can't leave. DU has been my virtual home for so long. i try to find a better home but i always, ALWAYS click back at DU. usually to be saddened by the sight of the kids relentlessly beating up on each other.
so i lurk, i hide threads, i post very rarely. i scan for OPs that hopefully offer a learning experience. i get called to jury service and see more and more and more specious alerts.
i consider myself a grown up. a DUer was first alerted off the board then a very nasty letter posted to her home via snail mail. what the fuck.
i don't want to fight like this. this is not useful, this does not advance the body politic. it makes democrats look like republicans as well, aargh. that's the worst thing about it to me - democrats are NOT republicans why are we acting like them?!
we may need to argue different positions but on DU these days it appears respect for one another has fallen by the wayside. a bunch of little kids incessantly beating up on each other. i have little hope this will improve any time between now and november 2016. so yeah, i'm thinking about leaving DU. probably won't though.

[steve2470]

215. +1 nt

[steve2470]

216. No, but...

if the site is not reformed, a lot of people may leave in time. We'll see.

[Capt. Obvious]

220. Everyone has the same tools available to control their own experience her at the DU

If you choose not to use them then that's your fault.

[retrowire]

221. thanks captain obvious!

lol no I agree though.