Police invade Texas woman’s home for warrantless 3AM ‘welfare check’

[damnedifIknow]

PFLUGERVILLE, TX — A woman has filed a formal complaint after police entered and searched her home — without consent or a warrant — all to conduct a so-called “welfare check” on her absent roommate.

The incident occurred in the early morning hours of August 2nd, 2015, as Tori Thayer was home alone sleeping a few hours before her shift began at a local restaurant. Around 3:00 a.m., Ms. Thayer heard noises at the front door and thought someone was breaking in.

She’s not here; she’s not in my house!” Ms. Thayer told them as she began recording the aggressive encounter. “Where’s your warrant? Gentlemen, can you provide me a warrant right now?”

Police ignored her requests for a warrant, as they obviously did not have one. They barked questioned at her, as deputies helped themselves to a search of the home.

“They acted as if I wasn’t even talking, they kept asking me where she was and I had already had complied and told them everything I knew, at that point I was done.” Ms. Thayer told FOX 7. “I couldn’t do anything and they just wouldn’t listen.”

Ms. Thayer insisted that her roommate had not been home in several days and that the police should immediately leave. That’s when police grabbed Ms. Thayer and shoved her to the floor.

http://www.policestateusa.com/2015/tori-thayer/

[WDIM]

1. Those cops should be fired.

And the one that shoved her to the ground should be arrested for assualt and battery.

There should zero tolerance for public servants treating citizens that way.

We need a complete retraining and educating of our law enforcement.

[yeoman6987]

6. And what if the roommate did something to her?

I think for possible murder questioning and seeing if any evidence is in the house is reasonable. Of course putting her on the ground was a bit far. Hope the police keep doing their job in finding this young lady. It may be a tragedy that nobody knows.

[Midnight Writer]

13. Then they present their suspicions to a judge and get a warrant

It's not tough to get a warrant and does not take a lot of time, often done on the phone.

The only justification for acting like this without a warrant is if they believe a crime is in progress and immediate action is necessary to prevent harm to a victim.

[prayin4rain]

24. Are you serious? You think the police should be able

to barge into your home, search and accost you in case you have done something? ? That's crazy.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

26. That's one of the fundamental differences between people who support the police state

and those who think it needs seriously reformed.

One set of people actually believes police have the right to do things to you (up to including shooting and killing you) simply based on their 'beliefs' or 'fears', while the other actually believes they should need real proof of a crime to do anything more than talk to you.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

28. The law already allows for warrantless entry if they have reasonable suspicion

a felony crime or worse is being committed. Obviously no such evidence exists because nothing was going on in the home apart from the owner sleeping.

[tabasco]

36. Ever heard of something called the Constitution? Bill of Rights ring a bell?

Pick up a book.

[TheKentuckian]

42. If it so fucking reasonable then a warrant ought to be no problem.

The fourth amendment does not close with "if quite convenient and not much bother".

What evidence are you citing of a reason to specifically suspect this dweller of foul play?

Possible murder questioning and evidence is exactly what a warrant is for, a concerned parent is not evidence.

This doesn't even rise to the level of reasonable suspicion to me and if you think so then based on what exactly? Fire the pigs and arrest them for assault and breaking and entry.

[ecstatic]

51. At 3am, though?

Really? Imagine how much smoother this "welfare check" would have gone if they showed up at a reasonable hour and knocked on the door like they had an ounce of common sense and respect... Instead, they chose to break in like armed thugs in the middle of night. I can't imagine how terrified she must have been initially.

[LanternWaste]

52. 3AM. No warrant. No Reasonable Suspicion. No permission. Physical abuse. No murder.

3AM. No warrant. No Reasonable Suspicion. No permission. Physical abuse. No murder (implication of suicide is not murder).

Rationalizing this as "reasonable" predicated on hypothetical "what-ifs" alone is the most accurate illustration of a Jump-The-Shark post I've seen to date.

[Glassunion]

62. You need a thesaurus

If by "fired" you mean "reassigned"
And by "arrested" you mean "paid leave"
And by "assault and battery" you mean "performance of duties"
And by "zero tolerance" you mean "a lengthy one-sided review"
And by "retraining and educating" you mean "reinforce and reward", then your post would make sense. Because that is exactly what is going to happen here. Nothing is going to change. Nada... Ain't going to happen the way you wrote it.

[world wide wally]

2. Assholes

[struggle4progress]

3. So ... what happened to the missing roommate?

[jberryhill]

5. Her family had reported they believed she was suicidal..

...and had lost contact with her.

“One exigency obviating the requirement of a warrant is the need to assist persons who are seriously injured or threatened with such injury. ‘The need to protect or preserve life or avoid serious injury is justification for what would be otherwise illegal absent an exigency or emergency.'” Stuart, 547 U.S. at 403 (quoting Mincey, 437 U.S. at 392)

[struggle4progress]

7. Did the roommate ever reappear or is she still missing after a month?

[jberryhill]

8. Dunno

http://www.fox7austin.com/news/local-news/6985574-story

"As for her roommate, Thayer says she is alive and well."

Local TV news programs seem uniformly shitty. They write these reports with obvious dangling mysteries.

My guess, among a number of possibilities, as to why they would leave something like that out is if it seemed there was some sort of issue between the roommate and the family. Maybe the "family" - and I doubt the whole family made a call to the police - was less than genuine in their ostensible concern.

[struggle4progress]

10. I couldn't find anything about her either

It is certainly possible she is just avoiding her family; but without knowing for sure, I might not content myself with that: it might also be the case that she is pushing up daisies somewhere

[Major Nikon]

19. I can see a problem with trying to apply that here

The purpose of applying the exigent circumstance exception is for instances when there isn't time to obtain a warrant. If the family had reported she had a gun to her head or was about to take a bottle full of pills, then I can see applying the exception. Just saying they "believed she was suicidal" can mean all sorts of things, and I can't imagine any of them requiring suspending 4th amendment rights when the family hasn't been in recent contact with her. A warrant doesn't take that long to get, especially in Travis county which is big enough to have an on-call judge.

[jberryhill]

23. The reports are quite vague

[prayin4rain]

25. I agree. This is ridiculous. So, and so MAY be suicidal does not support the

police officers' actions in my opinion. A knock at a reasonable hour, then if turned away, apply for a warrant.

[jberryhill]

4. Raw Story has some additional details

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/08/texas-cops-attack-woman-in-her-own-home-then-complain-when-reporters-ask-about-it/

It seems the roommate's family had reprinted the roommate was sucidal and they had lost contact with her.

The police are likely to claim an exigent circumstance due to the report of potential suicide.

http://fourthamendment.com/?p=13942

[redruddyred]

9. "this is against the law"

she wishes it were against the law

[damnedifIknow]

31. Handcuffed, thrown on the floor and a knee in the chest at 3AM

For something like this? If this isn't illegal it certainly should be.

[kcr]

39. No. It is against the law n/t

[redruddyred]

40. sorry let me be more explicit

it's against the law, but laws don't apply to cops

[uponit7771]

41. +1

[kcr]

54. Yep

I'm sorry. It's hard to tell, because there are actually people here who think this actually legal in the correct sense, and not cop sense.

[tomm2thumbs]

11. I smell a settlement coming... and a big one

The minute they touched her, they went so far over the line (that they had already crossed) that they deserve to be both fired, and brought up on assault charges.

[frylock]

12. fuck tha police

[the_sly_pig]

14. Police perform welfare checks all the time...

Doesn't matter what time of day. Cops don't control calls from the public or when the public places those calls. Based on information received from a family member, if there is probable cause to enter a home, they can do so. The question also remains as to whose 'home' this was. If the room mate was a renter and the missing person owned the home along with her family, and gave permission to enter the home, police have the right to do so.

But this is all elementary and the possible variables in this incomplete blurb are vast.

[dembotoz]

30. /\ /\yep

[TheKentuckian]

44. I'm concerned with my adult child and we have been out of contact is not probable cause

and if they have been out of contact then any and all speculation about her mental state is FUCKING UNINFORMED SPECULATION.

Too bad, even if she was suicidal it is her life to live or not and it infers no rights to invade anyone's domicile and assault them to assure a relative.
She wasn't even there as they were told so now what?

I guess they didn't murder the poor roommate so no harm no foul, huh?

Fucking police staters and nannies need to be shut the hell down.

[kcr]

53. Thank you. Probable cause.

Police cannot just barge into homes because they feel like it. What is so hard?

[the_sly_pig]

55. Good gracious!!

No need to get so upset neighbor. Folks call 911 to get cats out of trees, to get their teenagers out of bed, because the Immodium pills they just took are outdated, because they have a raccoon in their back yard. These are just a few situations where the police are obligated to respond. You see, the police don't have a choice in the matter, they are required to respond no matter the level of ridiculousness. I'm sure you don't want the police deciding what is and what is not important, right?

Its really just a matter of knowing how the system works.

You should know you have no influence as to what events police respond. You do have influence as to how they respond. Participating in or creating a civilian review board is a positive way to do that.

Good luck to you!

[TheKentuckian]

56. Cats in trees are not in my home. My teenager in bed, my house I called them though I think such a

fool should be ticketed for improper use of public resources and be charged back for the "service" so there was no violation of my privacy. Same if I called about old pills but even more stupid, maybe we need to lock you up for your own safety.
Raccoon in the backyard is again me calling them to my own location so apples and kitchen tables comparison.

Your examples are goofy and non germane.

GET A FUCKING WARRANT! Nannies and police state authoritarians can sit and spin.

[the_sly_pig]

65. OH my.. I do declare.

The hostility is unbecoming. I provided examples of routine police calls that happen every day. As do welfare checks.

Anyway, police are allowed to do what they do by law. The field is 'law enforcement'. As with any other individual, when they break the law police should be prosecuted via our criminal justice system and not by mob rule.

Just be sure to be true to your beliefs when experiencing some sort of emergency and turn the first responders away.

I liked 'goofy' but I would have used 'irrelevant' rather than 'non germane'.

[metalbot]

64. No, they are not in any way obligated to respond

What makes you think that they are? There's substantial case law to support that the police are not obligated to do much at all.

http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseaction=display_arch&article_id=341&issue_id=72004

There are some exceptions carved out (and discussed in the link above), but there are also lawsuits that have been thrown out against 911 operators who basically decided to ignore emergency calls, or police who chose not to follow up on emergency calls.

Police have almost NO legal obligations - they may fall afoul of departmental policy, but in general there isn't civil liability, let alone criminal.

[the_sly_pig]

66. Most all of the information in the link...

Does not apply to 911 centers. I read one sentence in the piece that related to 911 calls and the courts found the police were wrong for ignoring the call.

911 dispatchers are prosecuted for showing willful neglect. Any 911 dispatcher worth his/her salt will send a squad when someone calls 911.

[SoapBox]

15. Terrorists.

Out of control and they answer to no one.

This has to change.

[gordianot]

16. Someday they will be looking for birth control pills and condoms. n/t

[No Vested Interest]

17. Unconscionable. nt

[McCamy Taylor]

18. I am touched that four men are so concerned about a missing woman.

[Aerows]

20. Yeah but

we aren't in a police state because it hasn't happened to me, yet.

I hope I don't need to add the tag.

[PowerToThePeople]

21. All those cops are criminals

We do live in a police state.

This is totalitarian fascism.

The constitution is just a peice of paper.

You are not free.

Vote to change this.

#Bernie2016

[struggle4progress]

22. Um ... the Travis County Sheriff's Office is not part of the Federal Executive branch

[TheKentuckian]

45. Um...citizens of the nation but subjects of the county, huh? Nonsense.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

29. It's ag how I can agree with the essence of everything you wrote yet come away shaking my head

[PowerToThePeople]

33. Most everyone and everything around us

tries to deceive us or obscure reality.

Luckily technology and the internet has allowed personal realities to be seen by others.

It is sad, what we have become. Or, has it always been this way and we are just being able to see it now?

[sibelian]

27. Useless jerks.

What the fuck?

[hobbit709]

32. A 3 AM welfare check? WTF?

What time was it that her family called the cops?

And the Travis County Sheriff's Department when Pflugerville has its own Police Department.

[RedCappedBandit]

34. Police: "Gosh golly I just don't understand why people don't love and worship us!"

[Lee-Lee]

35. Police are called to check on people every day

Way too little to go on here to pass judgement.

When did the family contact the police? You usually act on a call where they claim a person may be a danger to themselves ASAP, so if the family called in the middle of the night that is when you react. If you get a call of a possibly suicidal person at 2:45 you check on that as quick as you can get there, you don't wait and hand it off to the morning shift.

What, exactly, did the family say when requesting the welfare check? How much danger did they feel she was in? Did they tell the cops they thought there was a problem with the roommate? Did they say she may be a danger to others?

Who owned the home or was on the lease, Thayer, the roommate or both? That can matter on matters of who can authorize entry.

Taking a random persons "she's not here" through a locked door probably isn't good enough to statisfy the check- because that voice could have been the person they were looking for who didn't want a suicide attempt interrupted just to give one possible example. With a welfare check you need to verify the person isn't home or verify their identity and safety.

The cops went about it with an attitude they didn't need to have, and Thayer did as well by not just opening the door and talking to the cops who were just trying to help her roommate. Her refusal to open the door would have raised my suspicions if I was an officer on that call.

All in all, I'm gonna say that they probably had exigent circumstances to enter, but we need more details. Look at it from the officers standpoint- a family calling saying that the person is suicidal and missing, they are dispatched and have a responsibility to try and locate her and ensure her safety, they go to the residence and a female voice of an unknown person refusing to let them in just saying the person isn't home. One would expect a normal reasonable roommate to be concerned and helpful with regards to a roommate that is missing and possibly suicidal, not act in an obstructionist manner, so that would raise suspicions that it's either the person they need to do the welfare check on lying to them or something bad is happening between the two parties.

All in all the cops were probably legally right, but had an attitude they didn't need to have while doing it. I'm curious what happened and was said before she started recording.

[TheKentuckian]

46. If the parents had been out of contact what the hell would they know about her mental state or

whereabouts?

No, bullshit. They hadn't heard from this woman so started flinging shit at the wall and grasping at straws.

If it was that serious and made any sense then they'd have no trouble getting a warrant.

There was no emergency and other reason beyond complete speculation to think one was in progress or even that the woman was in the dwelling at the specific time.

[Lee-Lee]

47. With regards to the parents

Nobody can say based on what little we know from this article- hence my questions.

As for if exigent circumstances existed- we will just have to disagree. Officers were told a female living at that location was possibly suicidal. They get there and a female inside claims to be the roommate, says she isn't there and refuses to open the door.

That's extremely odd behavior for a roommate whom you would expect to be concerned about the person and wanting to help- odd enough to raise suspicions that it could be the suicidal person.

At that point they could have just left and taken the random voice from behind the doors word that she wasn't there- that would be irresponsible and had she been there and later harmed herself the same cop haters here would be bashing the cops.

Or they could have stayed outside in an ever tender standoff while they spent 2-3 hours drafting a warrant and getting a judge out of bed to sign. Now, if there was a suicicidal person inside and that happened and they had the 2-3 hour wait and standoff, how much more likely do you think that is to end in her harming herself?

Given the above, it would be easy to argue in court that exigent circumstances existed because the alternatives had a good chance of her harming herself if they left or waited had that voice been hers.

[TheKentuckian]

58. If she wants to off herself it is her own affair and does not justify barging into

a home without a warrant and assaulting anyone.

Further, and again if the parents have not been in contact they have not a fucking clue of the women's mental state or location.

A warrant exists for a fucking reason, if so justifiable then get one. The 4th amendment makes no mention of an exception if someone is worried.

The police state people make me sick and it gets to the point of being treasonous.

It is not the fucking Bill of SUGGESTIONS FOR OPTIMAL CONDITIONS!

[Lee-Lee]

59. Sorry, but no, the cops can't just say "screw it let her kill herself"

If you don't like the long and clear case history of what counts as wxigent circumstances where a warrant isn't needed, take that up with the Supreme Court.

Had the cops just went away and it turned out she was the voice inside and harmed herself the same folks crucifying the cops for this would be blaming them for her death or for not trying hard enough or not caring.

[TheKentuckian]

61. No I wouldnt, you have my permission to expose my hypocrisy or inconsistencies in this matters.

GET A FUCKING WARRANT!

[Lee-Lee]

63. You should read this and educate yourself

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exigent_circumstance_in_United_States_law

A clear exemption to a need for a warrant is belief a person may be harmed if you don't act.

So cops are dispatched to a location where a reported suicidal female lives. Upon knocking a female inside refuses to open the door just saying "she's not here, I'm not her"- very unusual behavior for the roommate of a person reported missing and possibly suicidal.

Any court would rule that a reasonable person would see that given the information available to the police that they had reason to believe that something unusual was going on- as it's not reasonable or normal to expect the roommate of a person missing and possibly suicidal to not even open the door for police trying to find and help her.

Don't like that? Take it up with the Supreme Court and the lower courts who established the case law.

[damnedifIknow]

49. Then what's to stop someone who has a neighbor or relative

they don't like from calling the police in the wee hours of the morning and falsely reporting that they think they might hurt themselves and then stand back and watch the police barge into their home? I can understand wanting to find this girl that has been reported to be suicidal but this was over the top Imo.

[Lee-Lee]

50. Nothing is to stop them

There is never going to be a perfect system and there is never going to be any way to make a perfect system.

Look up "swatting"- people hack the phone system to spoof caller ID and then call 911 to report a shooting or hostage situation at the home of people they don't like to draw a police response too.

[mercuryblues]

37. The story suggests

that because it was a welfare check for a potential suicide, they had no time to get a warrant. The family, who had not heard from her in several days, waited until the middle of the night to report this? Something smells fishy with the police story.

I read another article that stated the roommate is alive and well.

[ScreamingMeemie]

38. Seeing as some support this break-in, I'm going to leave this here...

This was also in Texas, for those who didn't/don't know.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/police-went-4-times-to-home-where-houston-family-murdered/

snip-

On the day six children and two adults were fatally shot inside their Houston home, deputies made four separate visits to the house over about a nine hour period before they went inside, according to a timeline authorities released Thursday.

The Harris County Sheriff's Office had initially declined to say how many times its deputies had gone to the home Saturday after receiving numerous 911 calls asking them to check on the family. The first call came from the children's grandmother, who had received a text from her daughter saying she was being held at gunpoint, authorities said.

-snip

snip-

The sheriff's office received additional 911 calls on Saturday asking for more welfare checks at the home, and deputies went back to the house two more times, at 4:43 p.m. and 6:10 p.m. Each time, deputies also said that there was no response from inside the home and left the scene.

At 7:51 p.m., another 911 call was made to the sheriff's office and deputies returned to the home at 8:55 p.m. Deputies remained at the home for nearly 1 ½ hours before a child's body was seen inside the house through a window at 10:26 p.m.

-snip

-snip

[prayin4rain]

43. A text from the home owner saying they're being held at gunpoint

probably would rise to an exigent circumstance situation. I think that's at or above the level of hearing a scream.

[Taitertots]

48. Your friends and family that are cops would do this too. It's SOP.

its about time we start having "the talk" with the people responsible for police criminality.

[Rex]

57. SO the cop apologists just ignore the warrantless search? Typical.

Expect nothing out of them but excuses as to why breaking the law is okay in Copland.

[Lee-Lee]

60. Or maybe we know how the law reads and when a warrant isn't required

Unlike all the knee-jerk anti cop bigots once again showing their ignorance.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exigent_circumstance_in_United_States_law