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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI Love The Irony... As An Aethist... I Have To Ask:
Who's YOUR Favorite Pope ???
In my lifetime, this is the most progressive, and therefore, the way forward.
If the things you want to have happen within the Catholic Church are to occur... this guy seems to be on that path.
I have no skin in this game... I'm an Atheist, But...
I will side with Pope Francis and Bernie Sanders in the taking down of Neoliberalism any day of the week.
Many here are supporting the high priestess of Neoliberalism.
What gives ???
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Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)economic positions as Pope Francis.
The only difference is PR.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)Pope Benedict XVI 'knew more about clergy sex crimes than anyone else in church yet did little to protect children', say critics
For the legions of people whose childhoods and adult lives were wrecked by sexual and physical abuse at the hands of the Roman Catholic clergy, Pope Benedict XVI is an unloved pontiff who will not be missed.
Victims of the epidemic of sex- and child-abuse scandals that erupted under Benedict's papacy reacted bitterly to his resignation, either charging the outgoing pontiff with being directly complicit in a criminal conspiracy to cover up the thousands of paedophilia cases that have come to light over the past three years, or with failing to stand up to reactionary elements in the church resolved to keep the scandals under wraps.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/11/pope-complicit-child-abuse-say-victims
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)hasn't been strong under him either.
He seems to make platitudes, but not doing anything substantive.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)Pope Francis doesn't have the same baggage as Benedict in that issue.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)I didn't see service in the lack of response or reaching out to the public with any Pope, especially Benedict …
This current Pope asks for the people to "pray for me", and does not assume he must "pray for humanity", thus become one with the humanity.
It may be PR, but it's the only way any theology can be properly expressed. He is known by his actions, not inactions.
pnwmom
(110,261 posts)by conservative politicians by letting RWers selectively focus on issues like abortion and homosexuality.
Pope Francis has strongly shifted the emphasis to environmental and economic issues. Benedict paid lip service to the economic issues but Francis believes in them to his very core.
tblue37
(68,436 posts)
rurallib
(64,688 posts)Francis is still quite conservative in many ways.
Sadly my experience has been that every "liberal" pope is followed by a very conservative one.
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)whatever reforms Francis makes, since he's driving the conservatives nuts, could very well be undone by his successor.
pnwmom
(110,261 posts)
NonMetro
(631 posts)It's just the nature of it: tradition, faith of our fathers, never changing, etc. Even the holy books: thousands of years old - venerated, revered, even worshiped by some. The ways of the past followed and encouraged, resistance to all change, education, science, enlightenment.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)people who embrace reason and science and progressive values.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)in the texts of the various ancient religions.
Response to tblue37 (Reply #2)
840high This message was self-deleted by its author.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)John and Francis are head and shoulders over the other popes in my lifetime.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)WillyT
(72,631 posts)I'm just saying...
That if things are gonna change... it's gonna be with someone like this guy...
Not the last 3, 4, 40 Popes.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)and in fact threw quite wild parties. Sold a lot of indulgences. And so on. Got so crazy that they now have a procedure to make sure the new pope has a penis - a woman passed as pope for a while.
Anyway, I can appreciate the progress while not liking the lack of progress.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Anybody in the last couple of centuries ???
I really do not know.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)and describes it as an old legend. Best modern guess is it was somewhere between 800CE and 1100CE. And other modern sources don't think she existed at all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Joan
As for the wild sex parties and indulgences, that happened many times over the centuries. The church would become more and more corrupt, then be "reformed", then corrupt, reformed, corrupt....
Given the child sex abuse, I don't think we can say we're in a "reformed" period.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)
JI7
(93,616 posts)The Catholic church has always called for helping those in need. The support the theory of evolution.
And critical of rights for women and gays .
AuntPatsy
(9,904 posts)With anyone's personal beliefs but I do have a problem with those beliefs infringing on all having equal rights and to live without fears others need never face.....
And like it or not the core religious goal is to dominate and get rich....
Did you read the recent article on the mother and daughter getting attacked because of a belief they were gay?
Like it or not, the far far too many horrors that psychopaths commit unto others find that religion holds the key to those needing to find their private hateful behaviors glorified and legal, after all, the man wearing a long "dress" swears they are on the right side of this invisible heaven so many dream of...
One need not believe in prophets and Gods and goblins to be considered a decent caring human being, and yet our own government allows this BS to be used on us all.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Again I ask...
What/Who would have to happen for the Catholic Church to reverse itself ???
Sure wasn't the last few Popes...
AuntPatsy
(9,904 posts)I attended Catholic school, loved going to church because I found it so beautiful and comforting....
But never did I view the priests and or the Pope as being supreme in any way....strange considering my surroundings as well ad the adults who guided me, as I got older I loved to read and continued reading until I found out there were like minds and I was not alone in my thinking...
It could never truly reverse itself, not this late in the game, the dye has been set, to keep its numbers up it must cater to the ones who have unfailing followed all dogma set by the team of control freaks.....
And numbers ad up, they have been falling lately, yes their will have to be changes but they will be too slight to reverse anything other than attendance....
Frankly this pope has a good PR IMHO
WillyT
(72,631 posts)And conservative Catholics here in the U.S.
Let alone conservatives in the U.S. in general.
But...
He's the only way forward for the church... they are losing their flock on a daily basis.
If they want to remain relevant, they will change...
IMHO.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)I can't see insisting the Catholic Church doing the same not even a year later. If it took the united states 200 years, I'll give Francis a bit of time.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)"Concomitant advancement" as any time the USA finally gets its act together, the word gets out there that Nations X, Y and Z are really terrible nations with terrible societies, as they have not yet advanced as quickly as we have!
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)They just do not have the power.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)is like trying to raise the Titanic with a tweezers.
I certainly disagree with this pope on many issues, but he is on the right side of the two biggest existential threats confronting the planet as a whole - economic inequality and environmental degradation. That's worth something reasonably significant to this atheist.
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)taking what I can get. I was raised RC and left it years ago.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)Many things CANNOT be changed by a Pope. Not Francis, not John XXIII, Not John Paul II, or Gregory, etc. The Pope can make small changes, and this one has. Changing the rhetoric from abortion, abortion, and abortion, back to social justice, unbridled capitalism, and worker's rights is refreshing. Even on abortion, he gave a dispensation for all priests to be able to give absolution to women who had one, which is kind of a huge deal in its own way. Not so much in America, but in other countries this is a really big deal.
The Church cannot, will not, reverse itself in critical teachings. However, Francis has shifted the paradigm a bit, and for that, I am thankful.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)
IF you have specific questioons PM me and I can try to answer them later
CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)pope's positions on the poor/immigration/environment are.
They are irrelevant to me as long as he believes I don't have the right to control my own body or for gay people to marry.
SidDithers
(44,333 posts)That's like asking who's my favourite member of the Phelps clan.
Pope Photo-Op is no different from those who've come before him. Bigoted men who teach millions of others that women are not as important as men, who teach that women can't make their own health decisions or control their own bodies, who teach that love between two people of the same gender is shameful, sinful and unnatural, and that their desire to be married is a "machination of the Father of Lies".
He's no less bigoted than Ratz, or JPII or Piux 12 or any of the others. He just has a better PR team.
He's a theocrat, Willy, something anathema to someone who believes in progressive, secular government. He's Ali Khamenei in different robes. The Vatican is Saudi Arabia without the oil.
That may not bother you, Willy.
But it sure as shit means something to me.
(reposting my reply to you from this thread http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027200263 , since you thought your identical post from that thread deserved to be its own OP)
Sid
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Oh... that's right...
SidDithers
(44,333 posts)Why the change of subject, Willy? You realized how specious your position is, and had to quickly deflect and distract?
'Bout what I'd expect.
Sid
Response to WillyT (Reply #20)
Post removed
JI7
(93,616 posts)
JustAnotherGen
(38,054 posts)
sheshe2
(97,627 posts)Sorry Sid. I tried. Only some voices matter.
A good video, please watch. Lift Every Voice and Sing. Every voice. Every damn voice and sing til you are hoarse.
On Thu Sep 24, 2015, 09:24 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
Sid Sid Sid... How Are You Casting Your Vote In The 2016 U.S. Presidential Election ???
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7201088
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Ask the admins how they are gonna cast their vote too since one of them is not American. I don't think this guy gets to make the rule that only Americans can post on DU. Rude and completely inappropriate.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Sep 24, 2015, 09:51 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
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Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The alerter is reading into this post stuff that isn't there.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: So Willy. Sid has no right to voice an opinion on DU? He is Canadian and is not allowed a voice on DU according to you? Who made you an Administrator here? How many more do you want to silence Willy? How many? Our voice is no longer allowed. You are doing an outstanding job silencing us. Stop it! . Lift EVERY VOICE TO SING! Every voice!
On Thu Sep 24, 2015, 09:24 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
Sid Sid Sid... How Are You Casting Your Vote In The 2016 U.S. Presidential Election ???
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7201088
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Ask the admins how they are gonna cast their vote too since one of them is not American. I don't think this guy gets to make the rule that only Americans can post on DU. Rude and completely inappropriate.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Sep 24, 2015, 09:51 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The alerter is reading into this post stuff that isn't there.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: So Willy. Sid has no right to voice an opinion on DU? He is Canadian and is not allowed a voice on DU according to you? Who made you an Administrator here? How many more do you want to silence Willy? How many? Our voice is no longer allowed. You are doing an outstanding job silencing us. Stop it! . Lift EVERY VOICE TO SING! Every voice!
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Silly alert.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: A little snark toward the self styled party inquisitioner is no big deal and the comment doesn't rise to hideable anyway.
TheKentuckian
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
SidDithers
(44,333 posts)I've seen them so often, they don't bother me in the least.
It goes to show the paucity of the argument of the poster, if that's the best they can come up with.
Sid
sheshe2
(97,627 posts)I figured you would let it roll off your shoulders, yet it bothered me.
Luv ya~
She
SidDithers
(44,333 posts)
Sid
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)
greatauntoftriplets
(179,005 posts)
Deadshot
(384 posts)
REP
(21,691 posts)Wish I'd written it!
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)metric. This is a democracy and LGBT persons who are berated by your preacher have a right to participate in a politics that is not dripping with bigotry and superstition. Fuck exclusionary bigots.
Your proposed standard for who is and who is not progressive is the world's leading anti gay activist and the world's leading anti choice crusader. That is simply not acceptable.
Keep your religious tests out of our politics. This is not the 700 Club.
SidDithers
(44,333 posts)Sid
ProfessorGAC
(76,704 posts)I was shocked that was hidden
StevieM
(10,578 posts)It is interesting to think about the changes he might have made had he lived longer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_John_XXIII
LostOne4Ever
(9,752 posts)[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Sure she never actually existed...but then again neither does the god of the Catholic church so it works out in the end.
Totally disagree on this pope. He has changed NOTHING and is just as bad as Benedictus. In fact, It could be argued he is worse in that his fake appeals to get the gullible to come back to the church is enabling the Church NOT to change its doctrines.
Only by losing membership and influence will the church feel pressured enough to give up on their bigoted dogmas.
Siding with Bernie Sanders is fine, but there are people who are not homophobes that you could praise instead of the pope. If you insist on someone religious I hear Desmond Tutu is pretty good on the issues all around.
Why not him?[/font]
Iggo
(49,927 posts)All popes = 
(Hey. You asked.)
Reter
(2,188 posts)Easily the most famous of the last 70 years.
kelliekat44
(7,759 posts)brooklynite
(96,882 posts)How does Pope Francis rate?
mmonk
(52,589 posts)and left of Benedict and John Paul II. He is in the tradition of John XXIII. And unfortunately, too many here are OK with neoliberalism or not bothered enough by it. Keep on keeping on Willy T.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Many see his views on LGBTQ persons and abortion to be deal-breakers, thus they disregard any position (good or bad) that the Pope may take.
In my opinion we should praise good positions and denounce poor ones, rather than praise or denounce personalities. I take the same view with Obama: the man has done some good things (ACA, Iran deal, repeal of DADT) and a whole host of evil shit (condoning torture, indefinite detention, executing enemies of the state without due process, terrorizing third world countries with drones, criminalizing investigative journalism, prosecuting whistle blowers, increasing our military presence in Africa by 217%, destroying Libya in defiance of law, etc.).
I will still praise the good things Obama has done, but overall he has done more ill than good. I can see others taking a similar view of Pope Francis, but he should still be praised for the things he gets right.
zentrum
(9,870 posts)Well, in an indirect way—he's commenting on Atheism, among many other things.
"It's not necessary to believe in God to be a good person. In a way the traditional notion of God is outdated. It is not necessary to go to church and give money---for many, nature can be a church. Some of the best people in history did not believe in God, while some of the worst deeds were done in His name."
….Pope Francis
The part about not having to give money to the church is also pretty big news. Not sure when he said this, or where. A friend sent me this today.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)
zentrum
(9,870 posts)Thanks. It is pretty radical for a Pope to say. On the other hand, there's no proof that he didn't say it. May have said it in a smaller venue that was never reported. That's my take away from the link you sent.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)zentrum
(9,870 posts)…in any venue, I stand corrected.
Meanwhile—I love Russ!
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)find out if he did say it. Honestly, what the hell is up with these mental gymnastics?
Does the truth even matter to you? Or facts? Or accuracy?
Do you just prefer to exist in your own fantasy land removed from reality?
zentrum
(9,870 posts)---don't have an aneurism.
Hope you get this pissed at people who are truly abusing their economic and social justice power.
It's similar to things he's said about atheists and non-religious people and the sources are all over the internet.
I don't want to be the in the position of defending a Pope, but Bernie Sanders and Naomi Klein both think he's a doing good work, and considering where the Vatican was before his tenure, I agree. With notable exceptions, like marriage equality.
Still- it's not really worth a hissy fit, now is it?
MADem
(135,425 posts)
He didn't say it.
SidDithers
(44,333 posts)Unsourced quotes are fun!
He did, however, say this:
Sid
zentrum
(9,870 posts)He's moved the needle alittle on this issue but marriage really freaks them out.
Uncle Joe
(65,134 posts)I believe that's progress as well, perhaps other Popes have spoken out about it, and I'm not a Catholic but I haven't heard of it.
Thanks for the thread, WillyT.
LostOne4Ever
(9,752 posts)
MellowDem
(5,018 posts)You have to be in a pretty privileged position to ask DU who their favorite bigoted leader of a misogynistic, homophobic religion is.
Get some perspective. This guy condemns people I know and love and spreads a lot of suffering throughout the world with his regressive policies. This type of fawning bullshit comes across in a real raw way to a lot of DUers, and it makes me realize how much religious privilege there is even on the left.
I can't think of anyone I would consider an ally of progressives who holds the positions the Pope does, and I think that would go for most of DU. But when it comes to religion, boy, does the cognitive dissonance and privilege come out.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)As Barack Obama, and Hillary Clinton say they did.
MellowDem
(5,018 posts)And the dogma on homosexuality, women, contraception, abortion are all very clearly laid out in dogma, you can read them yourself if you'd like.
Even if a person holds the most progressive views on economics, if they hold regressive views on those topics, they are not an ally. Hell, they directly oppose a lot of progressive economic policy by fighting against women's bodily autonomy and contraception. The Pope's positions contradict each other, if viewed from a progressive viewpoint. They make sense in the worldview where a genocidal God tells you what to believe.
SidDithers
(44,333 posts)Nailed it.
Sid
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Do you even think before you speak ???
MellowDem
(5,018 posts)And many on DU's inclination to praise him profusely.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Damn.. I guess some are new to politics.
SidDithers
(44,333 posts)Now quick, say something about Hillary.
Sid
LostOne4Ever
(9,752 posts)
Blue_Adept
(6,499 posts)This is why I continue to come back here less and less.
DU and its members become even more elitist and exclusionary, slicing away every avenue of support for the greater good that can be out there.
How many groups have been run off in the last couple of years? How many more are left before it's truly disturbing? Not much at this rate I suspect. Thankfully the bulk of the really terrible material is in GDP, but that won't last long.
MellowDem
(5,018 posts)"For the greater good". This, this kind of statement and utterly naive privilege is what drives a lot of DUers away. You want praise of a bigot actively opposed to many DUers to go unchallenged.
And the hypocrisy on this is stunning. We should be heaping praise in a whole lot more bigots out there if the Pope qualifies as acceptable.
Blue_Adept
(6,499 posts)This is what sucks about msot people today when it comes to things like this. If you're not one million percent on my side, you're to be despised. I'd rather work where there is commonality and attempt to change and better where there isn't.
Not just write 'em off and berate them constantly into an even more stubborn position.
Praise where right, condem where wrong. If you just condem all the time you become full of hate yourself.
MellowDem
(5,018 posts)The views expressed here are for discussion, they won't make the Pope more stubborn.
If someone holds the views the Pope does on some social issues, views that are extremely anti-liberal and deeply personal and affecting to many members, they will get called out constantly here, and that's OK, it's what a discussion board is for.
There are plenty praising the Pope where right, no need to condemn the few willing to bring up where he is wrong (and how it contradicts and takes away from his right positions).
None of this stops people from working in the real world with compromise to get done what needs to be done, but a discussion board is where we can talk about our ideals as opposed to reality constantly. For many, it's the only safe and socially appropriate space for them to even discuss their true feelings.
When people praise someone actively trying to take away people's rights, you will get these reactions in a liberal discussion board, and I'm glad that is so. People need to be made uncomfortable and think twice.
Blue_Adept
(6,499 posts)I wasn't aware it was a discussion board.
MellowDem
(5,018 posts)and his Church for complaining, I figured you needed a reminder.
Blue_Adept
(6,499 posts)MellowDem
(5,018 posts)For criticizing the Pope.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)Thanks.
Yesterday I was told that I cause more harm to my issue (abortion) than the Pope. Little old me. For simply saying that abortion rights are in serious danger. On DU.
It literally said "Your cause suffers from you, not Francis".
Can you imagine?
http://sync.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7200473
olddots
(10,237 posts)but all of the Popes have been bad big budget soap operas.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)
uriel1972
(4,261 posts)He sold off the RCC's overwhelming bunch of assets to feed the... oh wait.
valerief
(53,235 posts)On teabaggers:
A little learning is a dangerous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring.
On teabagger pols:
A brain of feathers, and a heart of lead.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)
yuiyoshida
(45,415 posts)
Vinca
(53,994 posts)he pisses Republicans off. It's wonderful to watch. I couldn't decide if Boehner was blubbering out of joy or fear he might have to feed a poor person. On a serious note, I heard a discussion about him somewhere by an atheist and they pointed out that what he says and what he puts in writing are 2 different things and not necessarily positive because the writings will endure.
pecwae
(8,021 posts)of religious interference of any kind nor do I hold their leaders in any special esteem other than being a fellow human being.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Who is your favorite Phelps?
It has been fully reinforced, time and time again, that for a certain group it is one hundred percent about economics and zero percent about social justice. From Sanders fighting against over ten million people being given a path to citizenship for one hundred percent economic reasons in 2007, to siding with one of the worlds leading spreaders of hate and bigotry because they like his economic message. The bill of goods some can be sold.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Just for the Cadaver Synod.
whatthehey
(3,660 posts)All have been vile regressive bigots on social issues who more importantly could save countless lives and unimaginable resources with one five minute ex cathedra statement, but refuse to do so. You'd think they'd understand sins of omission more than I do but it appears not.
The only pope I'd countenance as humane let alone admirable is the one who dons the metaphorical mantle of infallibility and says, in Latin natch, "we have gone forth and multiplied enough to fulfill God's command. Enough. Let us take steps to reduce our destruction of finite God-given resource by reducing population growth how we may."
If he wants admiration from rational folks, following that up with "God made us all equal as we are made, no matter what gender we are or what gender we love. All rights, protections, privileges and respect due to any of humanity are due to all humanity, with no exceptions" might do the trick.
Since that's as likely to happen as...well, my becoming Pope, I suspect the answer will stay "none".
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)whatthehey
(3,660 posts)
nolabear
(43,850 posts)He is working within the system that exists to bring about change that it's possible to bring about, rather than coming from the outside with few alliances within the government and saying things that are absolutely admirable to us liberals but will be impossible to implement in one fell swoop.
Deadshot
(384 posts)Just because Pope Frank is against capitalism doesn't make him a good guy. He's still complicit in the cover-up of church pedophilia. He's still anti-choice. He's still anti-LGBT.
Rex
(65,616 posts)I am glad this pope called out our plutocracy, good on him. Now he needs to address the rape crisis in the Church along with the evils of fundamentalism.
And maybe the bar is low...
But I'll take the very public turning...
He's pissing off Conservative Catholics, And Conservatives in general...
That's gotta count for something.
Rex
(65,616 posts)I don't know this guys backstory, but the fact that he calls out Wall Street also might be a reason for some of the gnashing of teeth.
I don't go as far as condemn all religions, though I don't see many helping people. Some here hate ritualism and consider it barbaric. Fine. I can understand that contempt. I was like that once.
It is not this Pope that must change, the Church must change completely. Agreeing with science that Global Warming is a serious danger to the human race is a step forward. It is actually to the left of the fundamentalist view in America. How crazy is that shit?
The Church needs to go liberal and declare the ICB has no jurisdiction over marriage and dedicates itself to letting women and men marry and be priests or priestesses. The entire thing boils down to women being a no no and others declaring Catholics worshiped a women first, pretending it never happened.
It's like they cannot finish the puzzle and punish women still and don't treat them as equals as they know they should. Otherwise fall aside with other soon to be relics imo. People are going secular anyway, progress just is like that imo.
On a personal note, I've GREATLY ENJOYED watching the Pope and Trump destroy (intentionally and unintentionally) the GOP. A friend of mine told me Orange Boner is quiting because he sees the clowns taking over and wants out.
Only smart thing the fella ever done...
kwassa
(23,340 posts)
fadedrose
(10,044 posts)As I was growing up, it seemed that Pope Pius 12th was going to be pope forever. It was a long time...
And all I remember is getting lists at church of movies that I was not permitted to see, and always some new pledge to sign. Pius had the personality of a church bench, and the cheerfulness of a prisoner on death row. One shocking movie in particular was Unconquered, starring Gary Cooper and Paulette Goddard (1947). Seeing it on late TV years later it was very tame.
There's a couple things in Catholocism I cannot agree with, but it's not going to change, and that really bothers me.
But I wish Pope Frank well.