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Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
Tue Oct 6, 2015, 10:35 AM Oct 2015

Poles furious after Russia blames them for starting WWII

Poles furious after Russia blames them for starting WWII

WARSAW, Poland (AP) — The Russian ambassador to Poland has sparked outrage for putting some of the blame for World War II on Poland, creating a new spat amid deepening tensions between the Slavic nations.

Russian Ambassador Sergey Andreev on Friday described the Soviet's 1939 invasion of Poland as an act of self-defense, not aggression. The comment prompted Poland's Foreign Ministry to declare Saturday that the ambassador "undermines historical truth" and seems to be trying to justify Stalinist crimes.

World War II began after Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union sealed a pact in 1939 that included a secret provision to carve up Poland and other parts of Eastern Europe. Germany soon invaded Poland from the West, followed by a Soviet invasion from the east 16 days later. Millions of Poles were killed in the war.

http://bigstory.ap.org/urn:publicid:ap.org:43af9cc8c7a8478fb24295179aae77ee


I'm sure it will be argued Katyn forest massacre was an act of self-defense as well.
27 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Poles furious after Russia blames them for starting WWII (Original Post) Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 OP
Half of Russians regard the mass-murdering tyrant Stalin as a folk-hero. DetlefK Oct 2015 #1
Watch for the Robert Parry article confirming Russia's story...nt SidDithers Oct 2015 #2
Nice smear. Octafish Oct 2015 #9
Hey, lets talk about your choice of sources... SidDithers Oct 2015 #11
That shows even more what you are. Octafish Oct 2015 #12
You can deny it as much as you want, octafish of DU... SidDithers Oct 2015 #13
Yeah. They show I support democracy. Octafish Oct 2015 #14
They show you legitimizing bigots, homopohobes and racists... SidDithers Oct 2015 #15
No, they don't. But, you know that. Octafish Oct 2015 #16
Yeah, they do. And I just did...nt SidDithers Oct 2015 #17
In your mind, but that doesn't count. Octafish Oct 2015 #18
The links I provided tell a different story... SidDithers Oct 2015 #19
You sound like the republicans who invent reality, siddithers of DU. Octafish Oct 2015 #20
Fucking hiliarious... SidDithers Oct 2015 #21
Show where I promote ''racists and homophobes.'' Octafish Oct 2015 #23
Post 11... SidDithers Oct 2015 #24
Those posts support what I said. Octafish Oct 2015 #26
Keep denying the obvious truth, octafish of DU... SidDithers Oct 2015 #27
so the russians took a chunk of the Ukraine, how much are the planning on taking of Poland? Javaman Oct 2015 #3
me either. MBS Oct 2015 #5
I know when the Baltic nations broke away from Russia... Javaman Oct 2015 #6
I suspect that their long-time interest in Syria MBS Oct 2015 #7
Very interesting point. Javaman Oct 2015 #8
Not The Onion?! KamaAina Oct 2015 #4
Currently reading Snyder's "Black Earth: The Holocaust as History and Warning" alcibiades_mystery Oct 2015 #10
How short was Poland's skirt? Was Poland wearing pantyhose? McCamy Taylor Oct 2015 #22
I used to hang with a student from Poland in the early 1970s DFW Oct 2015 #25

DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
1. Half of Russians regard the mass-murdering tyrant Stalin as a folk-hero.
Tue Oct 6, 2015, 10:38 AM
Oct 2015

Of course, you have to come up with excuses for the war and slaughter he has caused.

Just like you have to brand the anti-communist ukrainian rebel Bandera as a terrorist.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
9. Nice smear.
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 09:53 AM
Oct 2015

Like the time you "remember" Naomi Klein being a "bit of a drinker."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022146890#post82

Or did you hear she was a "bit of a drinker"?

Comparing your writings, I don't think you two ran in the same circles.

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
11. Hey, lets talk about your choice of sources...
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 10:08 AM
Oct 2015

and your propensity for choosing to promote authors who are racists, homophobes and anti-semites. People like Christopher Bollyn, Paul Craig Roberts and Wayne Madsen.

Here are just a few, of many examples:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4504297
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6057873
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023454166

Why do you promote these despicable bigots at DU, octafish?



Sid



Octafish

(55,745 posts)
12. That shows even more what you are.
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 10:11 AM
Oct 2015

Here:



I've asked you, repeatedly over the years, to show what you term my "propensity for promoting and legitimizing the work of noted bigots, racists, homophobes and conspiracy theorist lunatics. You're a guy who thinks white-nationalist Paul Craig Roberts and insane homophobe Wayne Madsen are credible, and appropriate sources for use on a progressive message board."

Seeing how you fail to actually show any of that, I want these to be in the record for all DU to see:

Where I quoted Roberts when he supported Don Siegelman:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022073759


Where I quoted Madsen recently to document the business links between Bush and bin Laden:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6059251


Where I first quoted Madsen on DU2 in 2003 (earlier examples exist, but none so illustrative):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x610051


Where you smear Naomi Klein, making me think the practice is your speciality:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5318151

You will note that I did not support any theory, smear, or lie; I only posted what these people wrote. And as far I as I knew or know, none of these people are anything like what SidDithers of DU describes.



So, there's really no "propensity for choosing to promote authors who are racists, homophobes and anti-semites. People like Christopher Bollyn, Paul Craig Roberts and Wayne Madsen" is there? Just a smear from SidDithers of DU.

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
13. You can deny it as much as you want, octafish of DU...
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 10:17 AM
Oct 2015

but the links are there for anyone to see.

Bollyn, PCR and Madsen should be toxic to anyone claiming to be progressive. They're bigots, homophobes, racists and anti-Semites.

But you've got no problem legitimizing them by promoting their writings at DU.

It's a pattern that's been repeated too often, octafish of DU. I'm not the only one who has noticed.


Sid

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
15. They show you legitimizing bigots, homopohobes and racists...
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 11:36 AM
Oct 2015

Over and over and over and over again.

Sid

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
18. In your mind, but that doesn't count.
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 01:37 PM
Oct 2015

For years, I've asked you to show where I'm wrong. You never do. So, why do you continue to follow me around?

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
19. The links I provided tell a different story...
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 02:07 PM
Oct 2015

and I follow you around? Don't make me fucking laugh.

It was you replied to a three-day old post of mine, in this thread.



Sid

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
20. You sound like the republicans who invent reality, siddithers of DU.
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 02:14 PM
Oct 2015

Just because they say something, they think it's true and that nobody is going to bother checking.

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2386529

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
21. Fucking hiliarious...
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 02:25 PM
Oct 2015

you reply to a 3 day old post of mine, and accuse me of following you around.



Keep promoting those racists and homophobes, octafish. Keep hoping nobody will notice that you're OK with their bigotry.

Sid

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
23. Show where I promote ''racists and homophobes.''
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 02:33 PM
Oct 2015

Otherwise, you are what your posts show you are: a smear artist.

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
24. Post 11...
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 02:36 PM
Oct 2015

every one of those links goes to a post of yours, where you're promoting the writings of a piece of shit bigot.

Nobody who considers themself progressive should have anything to do with those authors.

But you link to them again and again and again and again.

Sid

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
26. Those posts support what I said.
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 04:08 PM
Oct 2015

You denigrate me for posting in support of Don Siegelman, investigating Bush and Cheney, and connecting bin Laden and the petrodollars to James R. Bath and George W Bush. Here:



I've asked you, repeatedly over the years, to show what you term my "propensity for promoting and legitimizing the work of noted bigots, racists, homophobes and conspiracy theorist lunatics. You're a guy who thinks white-nationalist Paul Craig Roberts and insane homophobe Wayne Madsen are credible, and appropriate sources for use on a progressive message board."

Seeing how you fail to actually show any of that, I want these to be in the record for all DU to see:

Where I quoted Roberts when he supported Don Siegelman:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022073759


Where I quoted Madsen recently to document the business links between Bush and bin Laden:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6059251


Where I first quoted Madsen on DU2 in 2003 (earlier examples exist, but none so illustrative):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x610051


Where you smear Naomi Klein, making me think the practice is your speciality:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5318151

You will note that I did not support any theory, smear, or lie; I only posted what these people wrote. And as far I as I knew or know, none of these people are anything like what SidDithers of DU describes.



So, there's really no "propensity for choosing to promote authors who are racists, homophobes and anti-semites. People like Christopher Bollyn, Paul Craig Roberts and Wayne Madsen" is there? Just a smear from SidDithers of DU. See my reply in #12.

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
27. Keep denying the obvious truth, octafish of DU...
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 04:15 PM
Oct 2015

You link to articles from piece of shit bigots. I don't care why you do it, it doesn't matter why you do it.

Nobody who considers themself to be progressive would give legitimacy to the likes of Wayne Madsen, Christopher Bollyn and Paul Craig Roberts.

Maybe you have no problem with their odious opinions. But I do.



Sid

Javaman

(62,702 posts)
3. so the russians took a chunk of the Ukraine, how much are the planning on taking of Poland?
Tue Oct 6, 2015, 04:26 PM
Oct 2015

I put nothing past asshole putin.

MBS

(9,688 posts)
5. me either.
Tue Oct 6, 2015, 04:29 PM
Oct 2015

I'm sure that the Baltic countries are not resting easy these days, either.

Above all, it's the shameless lies (Poles responsible for WWII- are you kidding me??!).

Very, very upsetting.

Javaman

(62,702 posts)
6. I know when the Baltic nations broke away from Russia...
Tue Oct 6, 2015, 04:36 PM
Oct 2015

the russian leaders were pissed. I have always thought it was a matter of time before they did something to get them back. Russia wants that outlet to the atlantic.

MBS

(9,688 posts)
7. I suspect that their long-time interest in Syria
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 03:32 PM
Oct 2015

also has something to do with ensuring access to the eastern Meditteranean as well.

 

alcibiades_mystery

(36,437 posts)
10. Currently reading Snyder's "Black Earth: The Holocaust as History and Warning"
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 09:57 AM
Oct 2015

He has very good discussions of the Soviet and German dealings with (and plots against) Poland. Andreev's comments are beyond ridiculous.

DFW

(55,186 posts)
25. I used to hang with a student from Poland in the early 1970s
Fri Oct 9, 2015, 02:41 PM
Oct 2015

They used to let some of them study abroad. He told me a story they used to tell in Poland that illustrated their feeling for Russia.

A Pole finds an old bottle on the beach, rubs it, and out comes a genie. The genie tells him he will grant his three wishes. The Pole ponders for a moment.

Then he says, "For my first wish, I wish for the Chinese army to invade Poland." The Genie is a little disconcerted by this unusual wish, but he is obligated to grant it. He asks what the Pole wants for his second wish.

The Pole says, "For my second wish, I want the Chinese army to invade Poland again." The Genie is shaking his head by now, but says he will grant the wish. And the final wish?

The Pole says, "I wish for the Chinese army to invade Poland for a third time." The Genie says the third wish will be granted, too, but first the Pole has to tell him WHY he wants to Chinese army to invade Poland three times in a row.

The Pole explains: "For the Chinese army to reach the borders of Poland, it would have to lay waste to Russia three times in a row just on the way getting here."

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